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On the rec list as of last night has been a rivoting story of a a middle age women beaten because of a political bumper sticker on her car.  The facts were and are cloudy (read not present) but still people were ready to blame the right for this.  I felt a general feeling of "well even if it didnt happen.... it could.  I mean its Georgia"

Well thats fucking bullshit.  Thats like Bush saying "well these guys may not be terrorists but they could be."  Its utter bullshit.  

I am from the south.  Grew up here.  Lived here for the majority of my life.  Grew up in a small to middle sized town in north Louisiana.  I now live in Birmingham,AL and my parents have a house in southeast Georgia.  My parents who both grew up, went to college and in my moms case, got her masters in Brooklyn.  

Yet if someone says a bunch of right wing rednecks beat somebody up you accept that with no facts because its the south.  Kind of like if the government arrests a person from the middle east and a good number of people agree with the premise that they are probably a terrorist?  No proof at all.  Your perception of what the south is quickly becoming reality.  You are prejudging a whole entire community.  The bitter accusations were hurled at the local police department for a cover up.  Did anyone email them?  Did anyone call them?  I did.

This site is turning into a place to dehumanize and demonize.  Its dead wrong and it is exactly the type of group think that happens everywhere...including the right wing folks.

The only thing that is clear is that a lot of people have a really distorted view of the world.  Are there fucked up people?  Yea.  A good amount of them at that.  But fucked up people are everywhere.

Simply check yourself.  If you are validating your position on a diary that gives no facts, offers no concise answers to serious questions and can not be validated by any outside means..... are you any better than Fox News?   UPDATE: I called and spoke with a dispatcher at the Brunswick police department. She said that there has not been any reports of anything "like that" happening. She sounded honest and her answer was direct but I could tell she was thinking what the hell is this dude talking about.

Update 2: I have proven that the story is false... at least enough for myself. I have a hard time believing the Bruswick police department, who has this lady as the Chief of police is covering a story like this up. http://www.brunswickpolice.org/images/Chief_Johnson.jpg

Enough is enough though. The diary is off the rec list. For anyone wanting or needing more proof there are ample resources and avenues to follow.

Originally posted to Hind2 on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 06:58 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

    •  So you called the police department? (8+ / 0-)

      What did they say?

      What is your assessment of their story?  Did it seem credible and logical, or did it appear to be misleading?

      While I'll openly admit one of the prejudices I hold is against people from the southern United States, this kind of thing could have happened anywhere in the country.  The south doesn't hold a monopoly on assholes.  

      And -- by the way -- I agree with your assessment of that diary.  It was just a smidge above second-hand gossip.  Sometimes outrageous things such as implied in that diary happen.  In my experience more times than not there is, as Paul Harvey would croak, "The Rest of the Story™."  

      Also, I wondered if the incorrect usage in the diary title (My Housemate Lies in the Hospital) was a Freudian slip.

      •  The first time... (9+ / 0-)

        I called I hung up because I didnt want to talk to a dispatcher.  I figured I would sound crazy.  But I just called back about 15 seconds ago and figured screw it... THEY SAID THEY HAVE HEARD NOTHING LIKE THAT HAPPENING.  This lady was speaking both an an employee and as a citizen.  She wasnt covering anything up.  Her answer was quick and direct.  She sounded credible to me.

      •  What incorrect usage? (0+ / 0-)

        I don't see any incorrect usage in those six words. The diary was borderline.

        "The law is a ass." - Mr. Bumble "The Republican Party is a asshole." - Vico

        by Vico on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:54:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  completely making up a story... (6+ / 0-)

          is incorrect usage.  But so is recommending a diary that you read when you dont even take one minute to question whether you are reading fact or lies.  

          •  I'm not sure what this comment is about, (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            madhaus, Hind2, SassyFrass

            but mine was about this:

            Also, I wondered if the incorrect usage in the diary title (My Housemate Lies in the Hospital) was a Freudian slip.

            Reply below shows my comment was valid.

            "The law is a ass." - Mr. Bumble "The Republican Party is a asshole." - Vico

            by Vico on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 09:16:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  yeah... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Vico

              I didnt know what you were referring to but at the same time I wasnt trying to communicate I didnt think you had a valid point.  I just answered the question that I thought you asked... I did not mean to make you feel that I had issues with the validity of your thought at all.

        •  Maybe it's <i>my</i> usage (0+ / 0-)

          In fact, now that I think about it more, maybe I'm wrong.  

          I thought it should be "My housemate lays in the hospital," but maybe "lies" is correct afterall.

          That's what I get masquerading as a grammarian.

          •  Preview shows italic (0+ / 0-)

            the posted message does not.  sigh

          •  Housemate = subject, not object. Lies correct? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            thorn70

            Well I hope I don't get this wrong, because I'd hate to further disappoint Sister Mary Ryan, if she is still alive. (She never did know I didn't get and still don't get the difference between that and which.)

            But I think the original (lying) diarist was correct. One lays an object down. One lies down to take a nap.  Therefore correct is "My housemate lies in the hospital."

            OTOH, since fictional beat up housemate (FBUH for the internet acronym-obsessed)  was in an induced coma, perhaps it would then be correct to say FBUH was the object of the sentence (having been laid down by nurses, not under her own steam.)

            Where are the grammar police when we need them. :-) I stand ready to be corrected and request anyone who does it with authority also teach me the difference between that and which. And yes, I have looked it up in Strunk and White and still cannot understand.

            Well this was a fun little diversion from annoying idiots who think DKos is their own private headgame or therapy session.

            Vice harms the doer ~ Socrates

            by kdub on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 12:01:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  call the local press (0+ / 0-)

      They'll have a local reporter in charge of the police beat who will be able to get the information from the proper sources (police, hospital, etc.).

      The Brunswick News
      (912) 265-8320

  •  a moment of sobriety is always necessary (4+ / 0-)

    in these instances.

  •  What did you fiind out when you called the police? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drewfromct, mango, possum, kenoyer130
    thx
    •  well... (5+ / 0-)

      I got a bunch of options to do things I didnt want to do because the number, which is 912-267-5559, only linked to either reporting a crime, police dispatcers, getting records and so on.  There was no option for trying to validate rumors so I hung up.

      I know the local papers would be all over this and will be if its true.  But as of now it seems nobody knows anything.  When I get an email response I will post it.

      I will though call back a different number and see if I cant get any more info.

    •  Just called again... (7+ / 0-)

      NO REPORTS OF ANYTHING LIKE THAT HAPPENING IN BRUNSWICK.  FROM THE DISPATCHERS MOUTH.  NOTHING.  NADA.  

      •  Prove it... [NT] (0+ / 0-)

        REPUBLICAN PERVERTS
        TORTURE & CORRUPT
        <- Join The GOP Rebranding Campaign...

        by kraant on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:16:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  you cant be serious. (5+ / 0-)

          if you are I would not suggest each individual person calling the Brunswick police department to ask about this but you are welcome to it.

          •  It'll be a couple international calls for me... (0+ / 0-)

            Now give me all the neccesary numbers...

            And I expect links to independant credible sources for those numbers as well so I know I'm not ringing someone running a psyop...

            Your rules...

            REPUBLICAN PERVERTS
            TORTURE & CORRUPT
            <- Join The GOP Rebranding Campaign...

            by kraant on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:24:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  the numbers are easy to find.... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              crkrjx, lil love

              I will give you a lead though... www.google.com

              •  That's interesting... (0+ / 0-)

                The number you gave isn't doesn't come up as police dispatch (912) 554-3645...

                It's police records (912) 267-5559...

                What's with that?

                Anyway, I'm just about to call (912) 267-5559 to confirm that you called...

                So before I do, which options did you go through specifically so I get the same person and can confirm you called?

                REPUBLICAN PERVERTS
                TORTURE & CORRUPT
                <- Join The GOP Rebranding Campaign...

                by kraant on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:50:42 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  actually.... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lil love

                  If you call the number I provided it will be a recording and you will get all the options... both dispatch and records, with a few more options thrown in.  There is also another comment in this thread that says they called as well.  

                  Beyond that if you dont want to believe me dont.  that is your right.  Dont take it out on a small town police department.  I am not going to get worked up by your obvious advances but I do wonder the point of such nonsense.

                  •   Hang on... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MadRuth

                    I just realised that before I call and confirm that you called I'm going to need some way of describing you...

                    Male or female?

                    Accent?

                    What did you say?

                    Beyond that if you dont want to believe me dont.  that is your right.  Dont take it out on a small town police department.  I am not going to get worked up by your obvious advances but I do wonder the point of such nonsense.

                    So now you don't want me to call?

                    Why is that?

                    (Are you getting the point of this yet?

                    The point BTW, for those of you who are a bit slow, is that to give out enough information for someone to succesfully confirm or deny a personal claim you're making involves giving out more personal information on the net than any sane person is willing to...

                    ps. How do you know that when they called dispatch they didn't go directly through to an ambulance service?)

                    REPUBLICAN PERVERTS
                    TORTURE & CORRUPT
                    <- Join The GOP Rebranding Campaign...

                    by kraant on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:10:37 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Because it (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      lil love

                      was ALLEGEDLY an attack, so the 911 operator would have dispatched police and medical at the same time.

                      If there, you know, was an attack.

                      Which it's pretty clear there wasn't. That diary is just playing on people's sympathies.

                      Read the diarist with the supposed housemate in the hospital's diary about the Egyptian family she met while in Cairo that begged her to move from the US to Egypt for her safety.

                      Then reconsider the likelihood of this supposed attack over a bumpersticker.

                      •  If it's the same in America as it is in Australia (0+ / 0-)

                        Unless they're likely to catch the perps at the scene that isn't how it works...

                        The ambulance is sent...

                        Then a police report is filed by the victim later...

                        Cheers. :)

                        REPUBLICAN PERVERTS
                        TORTURE & CORRUPT
                        <- Join The GOP Rebranding Campaign...

                        by kraant on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:31:24 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  kraant, (5+ / 0-)

                      please shit or get off the pot.  This is getting tiring.  Either call someone or don't . . . quit yelling at hind instead of calling.

                      "In the beginning the universe was created. This has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

                      by LithiumCola on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:22:04 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I would... (0+ / 0-)

                        But they haven't (for reasons I fully understand) given me enough identifying details for me to describe them to the dispatch operator... :P

                        REPUBLICAN PERVERTS
                        TORTURE & CORRUPT
                        <- Join The GOP Rebranding Campaign...

                        by kraant on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:33:28 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Kraant--- (6+ / 0-)

                          ---you're being an asshole, for no good reason.  Call the number and find out whether there was attack.  Two people who have been around here who have credibility on this site have done that.  They were told nothing happened.  You've got the tools to check the facts and make you own judgement on the Indy diary's validity.  

                          Grow up and give it a try.

                          •  I'm not worried about that... (0+ / 0-)

                            I've got a deny from d3n4l1 and that's good enough for me...

                            And that's the point... You can't back personal claims like X got beat up, or Y called police dispatch as if you're citing academic sources... You have to confirm or deny based on the level of Trust you have in the source... And I don't know this Diarist from Adam...

                            Habeas corpus gets suspended over in your neck of the woods in 5 (or is it 4 now) days...

                            When people start "disappearing" you aren't going to be able to call the police department to confirm that they've been "disappeared". You're going to have to figure it out based on your Social Network and Trust...

                            It's going to be a whole new ballgame with a whole new set of rules...

                            Have fun...

                            *sigh*

                            REPUBLICAN PERVERTS
                            TORTURE & CORRUPT
                            <- Join The GOP Rebranding Campaign...

                            by kraant on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 09:00:35 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  Ask Indy these questions... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      kraant

                      or better yet call the mall and get the eye witnesses name if you can.  I wanted to know whether Indy's account was true.  It was not.  If you want to know whether I called or not you will have to do that on your own.  Even if I told you what I sounded like you really need a voice sample, which I will not give unless taken to court.  

                      So I am not saying dont call.  Just get your ducks in a row before you call.  I would again suggest talking with a local attorney in the area and paying a retainer fee because you will his/her help with getting all the recordings and my voice sample.  Calling before that point is wasting your time....... and as evidenced by your well thought out and terse responses I know you dont like to waste time.

                      •  I was being an arsehole to make a point... (5+ / 0-)

                        Thinking about it I'm very sorry...

                        I mean, I get so pissed off at DHinMH and Armando when they do it...

                        I promise not to do it to you again...

                        So, uh, yeah... I'm sorry for being a jerk to you...

                        REPUBLICAN PERVERTS
                        TORTURE & CORRUPT
                        <- Join The GOP Rebranding Campaign...

                        by kraant on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 10:10:45 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  yeah thats cool. (4+ / 0-)

                          I would rather someone question then to just accept what they are being fed.... even if I am called to task.  No skin bro.

                          One real reason I didnt want calls to pour in was to avoid the Daily kos from becoming the story which there is still a very real possibility of that happening because thats how small and strapped for stories this place is.  My guess is the local paper would not paint a very nice picture about a fabricated story that included tones of hate crimes and lynchings-- by extension they would probably make the site look pretty silly as well.

                          No aology was needed but I accept.  take care.

      •  Sounds like Patrick McHenry (7+ / 0-)

        responding to Wolf Blitzer's question: "Do you have any evidence the D's knew about Foley?" with "Do YOU have any evidence they didn't?"

        Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. - Pascal

        by Clem Yeobright on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:28:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Intellectual Discourse (9+ / 0-)

    is for those individuals who first, are intellectuals, and second, know how to discuss without resorting to name-calling and bigotry, whether it be from a cultural standpoint (they do that in the south) or a political standpoint (you democrats are disgusting degenerates that are no better than the people you claim to loath).  

    With that said, the way to change something is not to attempt to hit a home-run and kick the players as you head around the bases, but to talk to the players, as a fellow player, about what their standards are.

    I for one verify a source, then articulate a response.  My gut checks were left in Iraq.

    You can't spell 'slaughter' without 'laughter.'

    by Lameth on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:03:08 AM PDT

  •  Well... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kellogg, kenoyer130

    Think about it for a moment...

    You say you're from the south...

    You say you called the police department...

    Now why should we believe you?

    Hrrrrm?

    REPUBLICAN PERVERTS
    TORTURE & CORRUPT
    <- Join The GOP Rebranding Campaign...

    by kraant on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:08:59 AM PDT

  •  welcome to dailyKos (24+ / 0-)

    Simply check yourself.  If you are validating your position on a diary that gives no facts, offers no concise answers to serious questions and can not be validated by any outside means...

    Not everyone does it, but as the community has grown to 107,000 + members, there's a hell of a lot more "hey, this happened but I can't prove it, just believe me that there's this sort of cover up thing and so-and-so is...".

    Sad, but true.

    I'll check out the diary, but in general, the whole "the South is a bunch of stupid rednecks" crap pisses me off too.

    •  Yes, many enthusiasts in the group now. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      scrutinizer, BarbinMD, Caldonia, mango

      Try as we might to remind folks to be skeptical and not to get ahead of the story, given our numbers it's bound to happen, and sometimes a suspect diary gets recommended. That's one reason the constant bitching about the "diary police" irks me. Express any request for sources, or remind anyone of the rules of posting, or suggest being skeptical until the facts are in, and someone just might accuse you of being a diary cop.

      "The law is a ass." - Mr. Bumble "The Republican Party is a asshole." - Vico

      by Vico on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:02:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  PluPage, the original story tweaked me (3+ / 0-)

      about six minutes after it was posted.  I asked, obliquely, for a news account of the attack.  The poster just said "It just happened".

      My bullshit detector went off full blast.  Hind2 has more interest in disproving the original post than I do.  I just saw a 105k UID on the original poster and thought "thrill seeker".

      Pathetic but it is good for dKos to get these every once in a while.  Critical thinking and analysis are encouraged by skepticism.  Overall, this was probably a healthy event for dKos but I hope the original poster takes his/her thrill seeking to Redstate.

      Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. H. L. Mencken

      by captainlaser on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 10:16:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You might want to link to the story (4+ / 0-)

    you're talking about in your diary.  Personally, I'm tempted to think you're right, but I don't have much to go on unless you present the evidence.

    That is, I can totally see dkos folks behaving in such a prejudiced fashion-- but I have no way of knowing whether, in this instance, they actually did.  If you catch my drift.

  •  Great diary (3+ / 0-)

    I'm not from the south and I have always felt a bit of what you say from the people around me.  As if we in the north, I'm fron Chicago of all places, are any better.

    Thanks for the reminder that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

    "Truth, justice and the American way."

    by Sourmash on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:13:52 AM PDT

  •  Amen (20+ / 0-)

    Excellent observation...

    Native Georgian here, but I haven't lived there for some time.  I'm always amazed at the reactions of so called openminded fellow Kossacks to situations like this.  I also caught the vibe of 'well, it IS Georgia, after all.'

    I call Bullshit.  Up here in Blue State NY, liberal Brooklyn, a gay man is in the hospital because some reneck motherfuckers with Brooklyn accents decided he should be beaten and run over.  Out in Blue State CA, a Sikh was murdered immediately after 9-11 by a patriotic Californian.  Matthew Shepard wasn't murdered in the South, he was murdered in Wyoming. Macaca Allen grew up in CA.  Should I go on?

    Is there racial unrest and bigotry in the South?  Duh, no shit, but I've lived in liberal Chicago and liberal NE, and I've seen more blatant racism in these areas than I EVER saw in the South.  People are people, and they learn to hate people who aren't like them or who come from another place or who scare them for some asinine reason, it doesn't matter a plugged goddam nickel where they live.  Ignorant rednecks are ignorant rednecks, no matter what their accent is

    So, Kossacks...give the Southern thing a rest; stooping low like that doesn't solve anything, and it makes you look as ignorant as the other jerks

    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." --Mark Twain--

    by malthus on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:18:20 AM PDT

  •  We need to keep policing ourselves (13+ / 0-)

    One of the things I love about dKos is the self-policing aspects of the site. Lots of people ready to cry Bullshit if something doesn't smell right, even if it seems to make the other side look bad.

    Thanks for calling this out. We're the reality-based community; we've got to be vigilant about easy prejudices and simple pigeonholes.

    Bruce in Louisville
    And the blog is Eclectic Thinker

    by bmaples on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:19:34 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for this (4+ / 0-)

    DKos is like an ocean voyage on a small boat. The waves are annoying and obnoxious, but they are necessary to get us where we want to go.

    Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. - Pascal

    by Clem Yeobright on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:25:46 AM PDT

  •  Maybe I need more coffee!? but (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    worried sick, d3n4l1, boofdah, cowgirl, mango

    I'm confused ... I gave indy the benefit of the doubt, b/c the alternative is that indy's making the whole thing up? and ain't that just crazy!? I mean, clinically crazy -- like a variant of a Baron Munchuasen syndrome, or something -- I mean, really?

    [There is a TDW, who last posted on 10/9.]

    'If Kos hadn't changed the rating protocol, I'd "3" you upside the head -- old school.' PBJ Diddy

    by PhillyGal on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:31:35 AM PDT

    •  oh, and then there's the Privacy Issue (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      April Follies, coloradobl, mango

      which was a hot topic recently, as many will recall.  I initially thought to ask indy for the Hospital/Room No. (no name), so we could send a card or maybe flowers, but even that seemed intrusive, so I didn't.

      [I don't see this is a South/regional derision issue, obviously, just that you're suggesting we're being conned, in effect, but to what end? and that's more disturbing as a community site]

      'If Kos hadn't changed the rating protocol, I'd "3" you upside the head -- old school.' PBJ Diddy

      by PhillyGal on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:37:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not crazy if you want to quickly establish a... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kellogg
      ...persona and gain some prominence here.  And I'm NOT claiming that's what is going on with indy675 and TDW without further evidence.

      I can recall one particular diary -- maybe a year ago? -- where someone came on claiming to be the colleague of a dKosser who had recently died.  Supposedly the person was here to just let the community know, but in the course of the diary the "new" member actually logged in accidentally as the "dead" UID a couple of times.  It got quite weird (and funny) after we started calling them on it.  Wish I had a link, but lawdy, how many diaries go by    here in a year?  I never thought it'd matter again.  

      It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation.

      by martianchronic on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:20:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  PhillyGal (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      April Follies, PhillyGal, Welshman

      It didn't really cross my mind to doubt the original diarist.

      But, unfortunately there are a lot of examples on the internets of people doing just that--making the whole thing up.

      U.S. Citizen Abroad? Had enough? Register to vote in '06! Democrats Abroad makes it easy, at www.VoteFromAbroad.org

      by worried sick on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:21:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's the kind of thing the trolls from (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      April Follies, lrhoke, PhillyGal

      LGF or Free Republic get off on.  I'm not saying this is the case for that diary, but freeprs & LGFers do like to post crazy stuff here and then go back to their blog and laugh about it.  If it is one of their trolls who posted that, they'll be laughing for days. It's been on the rec list for what...almost 24 hours?  Whether the diary is true or it's a troll diary, it's sad either way.

  •  Agreed (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    April Follies, SarahLee, lrhoke, murrayewv

    one shold not mindlessly extrapolate hearsay.     Remeber how Rove made a dupe out of Dan Rather.    We should use this forum to identify facts, not amplify worries.

  •  I'm not from the South (10+ / 0-)

    but that diary also left a bad taste in my mouth.

    I certainly didn't have any trouble believing the basic fact of the case, that the diarist's roommate had been beaten by some people in a parking lot. There was, however, no evidence presented that this beating was in any way politically motivated.

    There are thugs all over the country (and all over the world), and to stereotype the political actions of an entire region because of some thugs is just wrong. Not as wrong as the beating that those thugs handed out, but wrong.

    -dms

    Having trouble finding stuff on Daily Kos? This page has some handy hints and tricks.

    by dmsilev on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:37:22 AM PDT

  •  Thank you for reminding me... (5+ / 0-)

    that in an anonymous world... anyone can tell me anything... but it's my responsibility to find out the truth... people not taking that responsibility seriously is the exact reason why we still have bush as a president and why we went to Iraq is the first place...

    If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison, fourth US president (1751-1836)

    by crkrjx on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:42:37 AM PDT

  •  I remain agnostic on the subject (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    renaissance grrrl, boofdah, mango

    Hind 2, could you clarify? I'm a bit confused.

    Do you think the incident didn't happen at all, that it didn't happen as portrayed (hate crime) or that you feel other posters are unfairly smearing the South? (I'm from Texas, I get the same thing) Or that the poster Indy675 shouldn't have posted without evidence?

    Not trying to start a flame war, just want to know.

    U.S. Citizen Abroad? Had enough? Register to vote in '06! Democrats Abroad makes it easy, at www.VoteFromAbroad.org

    by worried sick on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:52:04 AM PDT

    •  I am not really saying... (4+ / 0-)

      anything other than use some critical thinking.  I will answer each of your questions:

      #1--I dont think it happened at all because:
      A) There are no facts offered and some statements contradict
      B) No news outlet anywhere in the area have anything on the subject
      C)  I called the local police and they said that it did not occur

      #2--I felt there was an aroma of "you obviously dont live in the south" around any comment that questioned the validity.

      #3--Indy can post whatever he/she wants to post.  But when something is on the rec list is getting a lot of publicity and rightfully so.  However it seems obvious that people did not critically evaluate what they were being told.  Indy presented facts that it happened in SE Georgia, that is was due to a bumper sticker and that the person was in critical condition.  There was evidence but it seems the evidence was completely fabricated.

      Not taken as a flame.  I am not trying to do anything other than evaluate what happened in regards to how little evidence it takes to get people to believe what they want to believe.  

  •  CIA Motto (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kdub, peace voter, kraant

    "And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"

    Always confirm ambiguities.  If you don't know what is going on find out.  Ask the people who know!  It is the shortest path to sanity.

    Most people are idiots... But don't tell them. It'll spoil all the fun for those of us who aren't.

    by d3n4l1 on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:53:47 AM PDT

    •  I trust you... (0+ / 0-)

      And I'm not getting any straight answers from the diarist...

      So is that a confirm or deny?

      REPUBLICAN PERVERTS
      TORTURE & CORRUPT
      <- Join The GOP Rebranding Campaign...

      by kraant on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:56:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  but how do you confirm a personal story (5+ / 0-)

      without invading privacy!?

      You know, the heck with it! this is one of those dailykos super meta thingies that I'm not getting sucked into -- indy's crazy and a liar, or he's not -- I'll never really know, and that's fine, and a sincere prayer is never wasted.

      'If Kos hadn't changed the rating protocol, I'd "3" you upside the head -- old school.' PBJ Diddy

      by PhillyGal on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:03:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My point... (8+ / 0-)

        was not to invade privacy.  I have a mother and father that live less than 30 minutes from Brunswick.  A mom who is probably only a little older than a Vietnam vet and who has a W with a line through it on her car.

        That is not invading personal privacy.  I didnt ask any names or any specifics.  Assault and battery that are reported to police are public record.

        I agree a prayer is never wasted.  

      •  Not sucking, but (0+ / 0-)

        Buffy was really only a fact finding mission if you think about it.  And there were no laws broken.  Today is the same thing.  Is getting just getting the authorities to confirm things really going too far?

        But don't answer.  That sucking sound is my coffee mug.

        Most people are idiots... But don't tell them. It'll spoil all the fun for those of us who aren't.

        by d3n4l1 on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:41:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Simple--- (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Helen in MD, Buckeye BattleCry, Hind2

        you ask whoever's telling the story for information in the public domain that can be confirmed.  Asking "Where was the mall where this occurred?", "Why do you say it was about the bumper stickers?", "What law enforcement agency is investigating this" are not, by themselves, questions that would reveal the identity of the poster.  Those questions just allow us to check for the existence of the mall, and see if there are news stories about the attack, see if the story about the bumper stickers makes sense, and check with the police to see whether there was a crime committed.  

        Remember, we didn't ask the diarist to bring the story here, s/he published it as a story claiming that TDW was attacked for having a bumper sticker on her car.  That puts the story in the area of "political news", since that's what this site is about.  If the diarist is concerned that certain details about the news story will "out" TDW, and doesn't want to provide them, fine---but if s/he supplies no verifiable details at all, then frankly, it doesn't bother me to call "bullshit" on the story.  Indy brought it here, not us---without any sort of concrete detail, I don't have to believe it, any more than I believed Bush's assertions of WMD in Iraq.  

        If that's too skeptical and callous for some here, fine---I've been around the Internet a very long time, and I've seen more stories like this turn out to be scams and dramatic fiction than have ever turned out to be true.  I want to be compassionate, but I don't have to be credulous as well.

        •  I will add... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          d3n4l1

          that I really dont have any ill feelings for Indy.  Even if its false the situation is sad.  My comments were really more directed to the community of people who so quickly fall in line and agree.  

          Indy also included personal information such as she was a lesbian, the town where it occured, the fact that she was in the ICU which limits the hospitals she could be in the area, the type and color of the truck the police are looking for.....  I will defend myself and anyone else against any accusations that we are invading privacy.  Thats simply absurd.

  •  If you wanted to spoof dkos.... (7+ / 0-)

    asking for sympathy for a lesbian woman who served in Viet Nam, beat up by rednecks over a bumper sticker as she stopped to help with jumper cables would be one way to do so, especially after the response to help Buffy in the past wek or so.

    Perhaps one could even ask for paypal contributions as a scam.  Or just chuckle as a distracting troll.  

    I am not saying this is what happened in this diary- we have had several people post about people beaten who were gay or just beaten severely as part of a crime.  Hyperbolic Pants Explosion's brother comes to mind, as well as a diary today from New York.  

    I would offer sympathy to anyone who experienced such a beating, regardless of their politics.  

    But sadly, the recent user number does raise some alarms.   I admit to checking google news last night and just now and finding no reports- although there is a shopping mall in Brunswick Georgia called Glynn Mall Place and there was a plane crash there last week (four died).

    You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

    by murrayewv on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 07:55:01 AM PDT

    •  Yeah those signs were disturbing (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tryptamine, murrayewv

      I checked the UID numbers. And Hind2 has been here a heck of  a lot longer than the original diarist.

      But still, no reason to jump to conclusions either way.

      U.S. Citizen Abroad? Had enough? Register to vote in '06! Democrats Abroad makes it easy, at www.VoteFromAbroad.org

      by worried sick on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:12:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am not jumping to conclusions... (9+ / 0-)

        I called the police, emailed newspapers and so on.  The only people jumping to conclusions where the 100+ people that got that diary on the rec list.

        The story is not true in any normal standard of proof.  That was not my point though.  My point is to offer a challenge to people for the future.... check shit out.

        •  And I now think you were right! (4+ / 0-)

          Upstream I realized that after going back and actually reading the diary AND the comments.

          I didn't want to jump in one way or another at first, wanted to do due diligence.   ;-)

          Back to electioneering!

          U.S. Citizen Abroad? Had enough? Register to vote in '06! Democrats Abroad makes it easy, at www.VoteFromAbroad.org

          by worried sick on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:49:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I offered her sympathy.... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            worried sick

            but I didn't recommend the diary.  However, not to take too much credit, I went back to see if I should unrecommend.  On the other hand, a week before the whole Foley thing came out, someone posted on it on dkos and were were sceptical about that one too- I even recall reading that diary.  

            So there is sympathy in abundance here for those who suffer, but we should be watchful for creative tricksters trying to spoof us.  

            You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

            by murrayewv on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 11:01:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Why just worry about the south being (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah

    stigmatized about prejudicial beatings?
    It's our new national pastime [as deemed necessary by the President].  There's more than enough stigma to go around.

  •  Don't forget (2+ / 0-)

    to trollrate the REAL TROLL in the diary!
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Most people are idiots... But don't tell them. It'll spoil all the fun for those of us who aren't.

    by d3n4l1 on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 08:18:14 AM PDT

  •  I'm from the deep South too- (7+ / 0-)

    Moved to Berkeley, CA, and got threatened because of my Pro Child, Pro Family, Pro Choice bumper sticker at the Bay Bridge toll plaza.

    The South doesn't have a corner on rednecks.

  •  "This site... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    April Follies, Hind2, mariachi mama

    ...is turning into a place to dehumanize and demonize."

    Over the top, but a point to watch.

    On a lesser scale, there was an anti-smoking diary earlier in the week. Demonizing smoking was fine BUT demonizing smokers was not good.

  •  You make some very good points (7+ / 0-)

    and this is exactly what shocked me about the comments to Kos's Privacy diary the other day.  A few commenters kept repeating the same incorrect information (nobody staked out her place or broke into her apartment, GOTTDAMMIT!  And no one has shown us otherwise ), yet with over 1,000 comments in that diary, only like 3 people paid enough attention to believe that/figure it out.  Truly unbelievable.

    I started to do a diary on this, but decided against it because I didn't want to start a pie fight.  But seriously, that is some crazy shit, yo.  Comments in Kos's diary that weren't true were accepted as fact, comments in another diary imply the diarist is lying, without anything to back that up.  It may be true, but that's beside the point.  It's just real crazy around here lately.  I hope it's just tension due to the upcoming elections.  

    So there's my .02.  And FYI: strawberry topped with whipped cream and chocolate chips.

  •  Thank you, Hind2 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lil love

    I was going to write a diary very similar to this one. I appreciate your very sensible approach to this.

  •  I had a 15 year romance with the South . . . (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrississippi, thorn70, kdub, scoff0165

    I'm a native Californian who had a 15 year romance with the South; I traveled there on business and pleasure and found that I loved loved Southern people, Southern music, Southern food, and the gracious lifestyles so many Southerners live.

    I requited my love, so to speak, by moving to New Orleans in 2001.  I washed in on the back of Tropical Storm Alison, and had a wonderful 5 years there until that bitch Katrina washed us away.  I lived and loved and worked and played in the South, and I found it to be a remarkably complex and endlessly fascinating place.

    I met many enlighted and noble Southerners; I traveled extensively and got to know people in cites throughout Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, and Florida.  I had a wonderful time most of the time, but there was something that always gnawed at my soul, too.

    What I learned was that racisim was still alive in the South, certainly not out in the open like in the dark days, but it was always a latent background buzz sort of like the cicadas on a spring evening.  Just like the cicadas, it would start out low and slow and then rise to a cresecendo and then die back down again.  Most of the time I could ignore it, sometimes I would challenge it, but I soon realized that to live in the South is to learn how to turn your head and pretend not to see . . .

    Katrina was the last straw, at least, it was for me.  I know what happened on the Missippi River bridge, I heard the triumph in the voices of my otherwise kind and caring white friends when they suggested we could take "our" city back, I heard so many tell me that it was better this way -- that New Orleans would still have it's culture, but without so many of the "problems".

    What not everyone knew when they talked to me was that my wife is black and my son has "black" written  on his birth  certificate next to "race".

    I know that I lost a good friend in New Orleans over that; this guy was smart, funny, informed, caring, the kind of guy who exemplified, to me, the New South.  Once Katrina hit, though, he revealed a different side to me.  He was able to rationalize what happened on that bridge, he didn't see how it was bad that the poor "heart" of New Orleans had been ripped from the city, and he didn't see how the culture of low expectations on all sides limited the future of so many.

    He didn't see he was a racist and bristled whenever I'd suggest that I felt a strong racist vibe in the city post-Katrina, but he was one.  He knew how to look the other way, but I didn't, or I couldn't, or I couldn't do it any more -- Katrina washed our nerves bare, if you know what I mean.

    I love the South for a great many things and I've known some mighty fine people from the South, but speaking from my personal experience, and my experience only, racisim is still alive and well.  I'm sure you're not in that number, but sometimes I think you have to have the perspective of an outsider to see it.

    At least, that's my persective . . .

    ~j

  •  Can't sleep, so I will reply (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nancelot

    I too find this hard to believe, but it is true. I imagine I am still in a state of shock.

    However, last night, when I wrote the diary, I was stuck at home with very little information; just what friends calling from the hospital were saying. I was upset beyond all belief, so if I did not write as a journalist, I apologize.

    I think we all know that when there is a crisis, people are a bit over-wrought and just say what comes off the top of their heads.

    My car is in the shop for some repairs, so I had to wait for a ride to get over to the hospital.

    Apparently, I had gotten some wrong information.

    The beating did not take place at Glynn Place Mall. It was at an outlet Mall up I-95, from Brunswick. My bad. I assumed that it had happened in Brunswick.

    There are actually three counties who are interested in this, because of vandalism, of all things. Seems a gang of young men are just basically up to no good.

    As I explained in the update, TDW is still in intensive care, but will be moved if all goes well in the next 72 hours (well less than that now.)

    She was not in a coma when she arrived at the hospital. The coma was physician induced for therapeutic reasons (brain swelling). She has a severe concussion, several broken ribs and a partially dislocated shoulder, plus the to-be-expected bruises and contusions and some facial injuries.

    It was the police who first brought up the idea of the bumper stickers as a reason, as there has been quite a bit of vandalism done to cars that have anti-bush or anti-war bumper stickers, since 2004, like keying, slashed tires and the like.

    The red-neck comments were made by the woman who worked at the Mall and her husband, who were the people who called 911 and waited for the ambulance to arrive.

    No one, least of all me, would blame this on Southerners in general. I too was born and raised in the South. Southerners are, for the most part, the salt of the earth.

    The cops also said it could be gay bashing. At any rate, they have been trying to find these gang-bangers for several months. Now they think they may have a really good lead, because there were witnesses.

    According to what I was told last night, the woman, mall employee, did not see the actual beating, as it was out of her view, but when her husband showed up, they came across my friend lying on the pavement and saw a silver or gray, big truck, possibly a Ford, driving away.

    We don't really know what the motive was. We do know it wasn't robbery, because my friend's rucksack was in the back floorboard, untouched.

    As I also reported in my update, we have called an attorney, who is also a good friend, and he is monitoring the legal end of things. I just hung up from talking to him, before I came across this diary, and he says that the description by the woman, of the man who came up asking for help, and the description of the truck may be the best leads the cops have had.

    I think you may have called the wrong police department.

    I hope this answers saome questions.

    •  You are digging yourself a hole. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      d3n4l1

      Please, please stop.

      If your roommate was assaulted and is in a coma, please go and sit with her, or with her family, or in the chapel at the hospital.  I would bet this will make you feel much better than retelling her story on the internet.

      ----------------
      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

      by gpm on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 09:51:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

        •  No, I don't. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          d3n4l1

          Assuming the story is 100% true, I don't believe that posting the story here is (A) helpful for her or for DTW, or (B) appropriate for a blog whose purpose is getting Democrats elected.

          This is my opinion, which I am voicing.  You may have a different opinion.

          ----------------
          The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

          by gpm on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 09:59:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Agree. (4+ / 0-)

            I sent this comment to kos:

            <After the Buffy diaries earlier in the week, and the "My housemate lies in the hospital" diary (which may have been a troll diary) last night, I think that it may be time to change how these kinds of diaries are handled.</p>

            The FAQ for this site states that this blog is a political blog, with the purpose of getting Democrats elected.  I started coming here for political news and discussion.  I don't come here to read about personal tragedies, or to see the community whip itself into a hysterical frenzy when some members convince themselves they have read a suicide threat in a GBCW diary.  That frenzy leads to problems that you discussed in your "privacy" post; fills the rec list with diaries which have nothing to do with the overall aim of the site; and, if Indy's diary of last night is a troll diary, gives liars and trolls the ability to gain TU status for nothing more than writing a convincing story.

            I know that there are times when it is appropriate for the community to respond to personal problems of its members.  I'd like to suggest a change in policy: don't allow these diaries on the site.  If a member has a legitimate need, let them contact an FPer, and then it can be put on the front page if necessary.

            If that's too harsh, then allow the diary to be published, but don't let it hit the rec list.  I don't know what the mechanism for that would require, but it would help to curtail the frenzy that grows up around these diaries.

            I think its time to cut back a little on the social networking aspect of this site, and get back to politics.

            •  I can't accept that (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              d3n4l1, peace voter

              The personal and the political are linked.  Think about all those stories we've shared about making a connection with someone who has always voted Republican, and then they change their mind when they reach their own particular aha moment.

              The Buffy and Indy diaries are exceptional, and we can find ways to handle them.  Sure, many people are angry they were taken in by what may not have been true, or misleading.  But you cannot remove the community aspect of a community blog and then keep what makes it work.

              Chaos, fear, dread. My work here is done.

              by madhaus on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 01:40:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I also understand issues better (0+ / 0-)

                when they're explained via personal stories.

                But I am not sure what the political message of the original diary is.  The closest message I can imagine is "Southern Republicans = evil troglodytes."

                If the diarist was, instead, telling a story about just some guys who happen to be Southern Republicans, then what is the political message?

                ----------------
                The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

                by gpm on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 02:02:17 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Of course personal and political are linked, (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                hrh

                but if you go back and read what I wrote, what I'm talking about are the Buffy/Indy diaries and their ilk.  What possible benefit to the community to diaries that do not, by any stretch of the imagination, touch on political issues?  I'm not talking about the diaries that nyceve posted on heatlth insurance, which gave an up close and personal look at the failures of the health insurance industry in the US, nor am I talking about diaries like RenaRF's charming story of losing her (canvassing) virginity.  I'm talking about diaries like Buffy's, which some people interpreted as a "suicide note", or diaries like Indy's, which was at worst, a not very well-crafted fiction, and at best, seems to be laying the groundwork for a thesis in social dynamics on liberal blogs (in response to the Buffy stuff, I wonder?)

                "Personal tragedy" diaries are fine, in their place, but dKos isn't that place, at least if the FAQ for this site is to be believed.  If people want to form a blog for that kind of thing, and have Kos link to it like he does "Street Prophets", fine.  This community is getting to be way too big, and it's too hard to police the hysteria when stuff like the Buffy situation takes off.  Political news, views, arguments, fine; but dKos shouldn't become another myspace.  

          •  You are probably right (0+ / 0-)

            I am new at this and was over-worught.

            Thanks for the suggestion

        •  I do know that this is untrue. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Helen in MD, scrutinizer, d3n4l1, gpm

          By any expectation of truth that I hold most other truths to I will say unapologetically that I believe he/she is not telling the truth.  There is no logical explanation as to why the brunswick police would not know about this and they do not.  There is no logical explanation why the mall would get mixed up.  This isnt a large place.  The next big place up I95 is savannah.

          The police dispatcher would know about this in order to be on alert.  The newspapers would know about this.  Common sense and the fact that I spend a decent amount of time in the area also add to my thoughts but even if I was from the moon I would think this.

          The entire county is 75,000 people, brunswick accounting for about 20,000 or so of those people.  That is far less than the UGA football stadium on a saturday.  Come on people.  I am not being an asshole or out of line.  Here is a list of pretty much every even somewhat sizable shopping center in Glynn county... and some really dont qualify as a mall by most standards-- Glynn Place Mall Shopping Center, Glynn Place Market Shopping Center, Jekyll Island Plaza Shopping Center, Altama Village Shopping Center, Brunswick West Shopping Center.

          •  meh (0+ / 0-)

            i live in a county with low population, and there's lots of stuff that goes on which only a few people know about

            case in point: i live about 3/4 mile from a 2 lane highway, and can see (kind of) what goes on on that highway from my front porch

            two nights ago, i walked outside and saw a conflagration of rescue vehicles, police, firemen, you name it.

            the next day, i drive by on my way to work and see a cattle trailer had gone through someone's fencing

            the best i've been able to find out is the cattle trailer full of cattle went through the fencing, a car somewhere caught on fire either before and after and a bunch of people stopped to throw dirt on the car and round up the cattle

            not one word in the papers and most people here have no idea it even happened

            by the same token, the going joke here is, if you want to murder someone, do it in the next county because the body will just be buried and there will be no investigation

            even in this county, there are petitions on a number of store counters for an investigation into the death of a woman 3 years ago --- she was apparently beaten to death but the cops never bothered to do anything because the suspect is a cousin of someone. so the death was apparently characterized as natural.

    •  Thanks, Indy (0+ / 0-)

      Everyone here is just a little ouchy from an incident that preceded your diary, and understandably so. That being said, we are all sort of pioneering the cyberworld and this community, and therefore still groping our way, in terms of boundaries, trust, accountability, charity, and support. I'm sorry that your trauma got caught in the fray of all of this, and I do hope that your friend is healing.

      •  speak for yourself (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Hind2

        I'm not new.  I have $400 phone bills going back to 1987 to prove it.  

        neither the mall information desk nor their on duty guard knows anything, and when I called the supervisor he knew of no event either on the mall property or any of the surrounding properties.

        Any other leads?  How about the case number?  

        Most people are idiots... But don't tell them. It'll spoil all the fun for those of us who aren't.

        by d3n4l1 on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 04:22:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Uh, no one said you were new. n/t (0+ / 0-)
        •  Dude.... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gpm, callmecassandra

          some people are simply never going to believe this.  It became evident when I posted that I called the police and the Indy tried to change the mall/county it happened in, which is in and of itself ridiculous, yet people still refused to believe they had been exposed.

          My guess is that the people still holding on probably heaped a mighty amount of sympathy on that other thread and now feel a little silly.  I would feel exposed.  That is why I checked it out.

          Sunday and still not a word out of any media.... some people will probably argue that this is a cover up.  Reality is mighty subjective and resistance to a lot of people is futile.  Let nancelot go on about her/his way.  It seems anyone that gullable probably needs some friendly thoughts as well.

        •  dude..... (0+ / 0-)

          check out nancelots email before you write anything else.  Its obvious at this point that indy and nancelot are very likely the same people.

      •  yeah... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gpm

        you are really convinced that this happened.  It did not happen.  I agree that Indy needs support but not one this place can offer.  Indy is a very lonely person.  I think continually posting things like you are posting is ignoring reality and not helping feed the beast.  

        •  Can you NOT read? (0+ / 1-)
          Recommended by:
          Hidden by:
          Hind2

          You are responding to a post I made over 24 hours ago--the morning after her diary--when very few comments had been generated re: a hoax. Any other comments I made after that are clearly NOT in support of her, but rather an effort to quell hysteria on this blog.

          If you think it is a hoax, fine. It very likely is. But I am offended and sickened by your behavior. You have distorted the meaning of my comments, and you have disparaged my name here. You are extremely out of line by repeatedly posting my name and email address all over the place, in your hell-bent effort to be a super sleuth.

          At this point, I am of the opinion that you are far more dangerous than the person you are trying to out.

          Leave me alone and leave my name out of this. Do you understand?

          •  I only posted info... (0+ / 0-)

            that can be acquired by clicking on your username.  I posted it only to threads where it was pertinent information.  There were others that went way further with it all but I didnt.  

            Seriously though you realize you can make your email private right?  I think its just a button you click in your profile page.  

            •  Let me be clear, (0+ / 0-)

              I am perfectly aware of how to place, edit, or delete, my email from my profile. It is there because I trust that most Dkos users have enough decency, sanity, and intellect to use it appropriately. You seem to qualify in none of those categories, as you are the only one bandying my name and info about, so don't blame others for the accusations you made. You ignored or distorted important chronology and meaning from my comments, and you persisted in your wild, confirmatory bias, without even checking my very long history through the archives. If you had abandoned your hysteria for a brief moment to simply use Google, you would find that the term "indy" gets about 26 MILLION hits, thus making it about as rare as the term "dem". You are the proverbial fool who gets his hands on a hammer and thinks everything's a nail.

              Stop harassing me.

              •  again... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                tommymet

                I never typed anything into a google search.  Many on here did.  I didnt.  It was pertinent info that was related to the thread and the topic being discussed.  I think even Markos would find it interesting that you just happen to have that email address.

                So is it really just a coincidence?  It doesnt really matter.  You are the one that wont leave this alone.  You came to my diary and continue to post in it.  As the author I think I have the right to defend myself against false claims of harrassment.  I am not chasing you to other threads or any of that so your harrassment claim is foolish.  If you want to be left alone leave me alone.  It seems you want attention.

          •  also. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tommymet

            Not to be mean or be over the top but is it really just a coincidence?  At the very least you have to admit that it is one hell of a coincidence if it truly is one.

    •  personally (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Allogenes

      I thought Hind2's characterisation of this as an attack on the South pretty questionable.

      •  I didnt try and characterize... (6+ / 0-)

        this as an attack on the south per se.  Everyone accepted the pretense though and in the original diary when people questioned the validity of the story people responded with "you are obviously not from the south.." type comments.

        I stand by my statement.  People on here need to do more fact checking.  From all avenues that I can pursue I think this story is false.  I have given plenty of examples of why.  If something comes out to prove otherwise I will retract the statement that the diary was complete bullshit but I still think there was not enough sustance provided and the following thread entries were more than suspect.

        In short I wanted people to question what reality they were accepting as true.  Whether or not the diary was a real story does not impede on that thought.

    •  if this is true... (9+ / 0-)

      get it in the news.  Get on your attorneys ass to get the Brunswick police in on the search.  Every department in the area should be in on this and at the very least know of the threat.  Call every media outlet in the area and let them know.

      My point was for the community to require a higher burden of proof.  I stand by that point and will.  It is bigger than just your diary but it was a good example.  

      Having family just across the bridge from brunswick I took the opportunity to see if it was true.  Partly because I was concerned and part because I didnt believe you (and still dont).  I am not too proud to say if I was wrong in coming to the conclusion it was a false story but there is still 0 being reported.

      Take a break from the site though.  If this is happening this has got to be an emotional time for you.  Instead of spending time on here spend time getting this to the media outlets so they can help.  People in this area will help.  I emailed all papers and the ones that responded said that have heard nothing and no police reports anywhere in this area.  This is a place that reports where hometown favorite and PGA player Davis Love III is having dinner and does feature articles on the deaf Ms. America (who was from alabama but lives on St. Simons) and her dog that is a regular up and down ocean blvd.  They would jump all over this and you would have a community helping you.  

      •  as i suggested in another post (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        April Follies, boofdah

        Call the local paper. They'll have somebody whose resposibility it is to find this stuff out.

        The Brunswick News
        (912) 265-8320

        •  I was in st. simons in august.... (4+ / 0-)

          and the top story on the local news was a car hitting one of the sacred oak trees that lines ocean blvd.  They had people commenting for over 5 minutes on whether or not the trees should remain protected or some of the ones closer to the road should be removed for safety.

          I simply cant believe such an incidence would occur anywhere in the area without everyone knowing about it.  

          I would actually bet money that if enough people from this site call and do fact checks WE may become the story.  Seriously.... thats how slow this place is.

          •  I can vouch for that (0+ / 0-)

            We were visiting Jekyll Island and through a long and convoluted story we ended up being arrested for car theft (no we did not steal a car).  The charges were dropped after we spent a few hours in jail.

            That took up 4 columns in the Brunswick News (and fortunately this story is pre-internet so you won't find it).  They really DON'T have much going on.  A beating would be more than an entire page.

            Chaos, fear, dread. My work here is done.

            by madhaus on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 01:36:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  EXCELLENT.. (0+ / 0-)

        What I have been looking for... Compassion and Caring mixed in with the skepticism.

        Wish I could give you 10 +4s.

        -6.5, -7.59. Annoy a Conservative: Think for yourself.

        by DrWolfy on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 10:37:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Name the police department (2+ / 0-)

      I think you may have called the wrong police department.

      Which police department is the correct one?

    •  I recommended your comment (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah

      because you replied to this diary, when you could have vanished. Yet you aren't engaging in hysterical dialogue.

      To everyone else here: See my comment reply to the Diary.

      •  From what I understand, which still isn't much (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Hind2

        the police are keeping a lid on this cause they believe they have the best leads yet, on this gang of young men.

        They want an oppotunity to catch them.

        Wer are all for it!

      •  Not me. Her reply makes me even more suspicious. (0+ / 0-)

        You mentioned elsewhere, nancelot, that you've worked as a counselor for victims of crime, so please feel free to tell me I'm full of shit if you think so.

        But if I had posted something here about my roommate being beaten almost into a coma (why I would be doing this hours after it happened, I don't know, but I digress), and somebody suggested I was making the story up, I would need a thesaurus to help me figure out more nasty names to call him.  I would not calmly reply to his diary, saying, "Oh yeah, actually it didn't happen where I said it happened, it was somewhere else."

        Also, having been involved with the police more times than I would like to have been, I can't recall them ever misplacing an incident a few miles from where it actually happened.  Maybe the police in her part of the world are just inept, but the cops I've had experience with are very good at getting their facts straight.

        ----------------
        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

        by gpm on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 02:00:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As a therapist, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PaintyKat, boofdah, gpm

          of two decades and a soon-to-be psychologist, I can only tell you this: internet guessing is just that-- internet guessing. We can always have hunches about folks, but I personally would never offer real diagnostic input over the internet, anyway. I sometimes offer psycho-snarkasm, when it's a politician whose M.O. is well known to us, but that's not the same thing as judging a poster from a brief snapshot. I've worked pretty closely with cops and newspapers over those years and I've seen everything from stark ineptitude to absolute brilliance. Having worked with victims of various trauma--fire, death, rape, accidents, etc., I can tell you that they often don't know details, frequently act illogically, and (though there are some common response patterns), will almost always put their idiopathic spin on things. Does it make me suspicious? Sure. Does it make me accuse them? No.  

          I personally and professionally am always inclined to go with respect while reserving some room for doubt. If someone is asking something of me, then I may want proof of credibility. If I'm performing a service for court, e.g. custody, fitness, disability, etc. then I'll overturn every rock and kleenex, as well as administer the necessary professional tests. And I would rely on the evidence and findings. But no matter what my findings, I'd still be respectful. (not the same as nice, btw)

          But...

          This person asked nothing of us. Her many comments over the last month seem genuine, her news blog, that she shares with this housemate in question, seems fairly well done and goes back to December 2005.

          I guess it's not so important to me to prove people wrong, or "beat up" trolls (giving them donuts and offering "guidance" is more my style). We have all been duped by so many people in power, that we have our hypervigilant antennae workin' all the time. (And I fear that because we can't collar the really bad guys, we go for the folks we can conquer.) I am perfectly comfortable knowing that I could be wrong, and for the sake of human kindness, I am willing to wait this out. We may never really know, but it's a sure thing that we've made two more enemies, and a spectacle of ourselves, so that we could "nail" someone.

          Sorry if I seem preachy--it's been a very demanding day. I do appreciate your inquiry. And I sincerely hope that this turns out better than it's been thus far.

          nan

          •  Thank you, Nan... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            peace voter, nancelot, gpm

            My husband had his reservations about the original diary from the beginning; and after an unfruitful search for news on Google, was convinced the story was bogus.

            I reacted very emotionally to the original diary because, although I haven't been threatened or beaten up, I've gotten nasty comments and middle fingers out the window on the road because of my pro-Democratic bumperstickers. I'm sure we all have, from time to time, which is scary in and unto itself.

            Especially, I might add, because my bumperstickers are a lot less inflammatory than others I could put up. (It's campaign season, so I feel I'm being more productive by wearing bumperstickers that support local Dem candidates rather than put down Repugs.)

            IMO, I think the story in the diary touched a nerve with a lot of us, not because of the South or "redneck" stereotypes or other surface-level issues relating to stickers you put on your car...but because the situation, real or imagined, was a stark reminder that we liberals continue to be vilified, demonized, and bullied at every turn. I'm sure we all fear that something like this really could happen to one of us, because of the wonderful climate of Americans vs. Americans that Our Dear Uniter has created for us.

            Contrary to what Hind2 implied in a comment upthread (something to the effect of, "what are you doing here instead of sitting in the hospital with your housemate?" Well, I'm willing to give Indy a pass on that one because 1) non-relations aren't often allowed to be in the hospital room with non-relations, esp. if said victim is in the ICU and needs round-the-clock, sanitized nursing care. And 2) who's to say (if this story is true) that Indy isn't in a Starbuck's near the hospital venting all her feelings on the Wi-Fi? Maybe in a lonely town in Red America, fellow Kossacks are the only ones she can turn to.

            That--and the fact that it's just fucking callous to blow off another person's pain as being "fake" when maybe it isn't--is why I'm reserving judgment (for now). Fuckall, I thought we were supposed to be liberals, ummm, who like, CARE about the downtrodden and fucked-on?

            •  Interesting insight. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              boofdah, gpm

              I think we all bring our own "stuff" to other peoples diaries and posts, whether they are data-driven, news driven, or emotionally driven. I've lived long enough to believe that if I can't learn something about myself--even from a troll post, or a bogus diary--I'm not trying hard enough. There are many flaws to my character, I would like to leave this world knowing that hubris isn't one of them!!

              I think your comment was very poignant and important. I wish others could take the time and absorb your words.

              Thank you.

              nan

                •  this is nans email... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Buckeye BattleCry

                  indy2windy@aol.com.  The original diary was written by a person with the username Indy.  Get a clue.

                  •  Wait a second ... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kenoyer130

                    you're saying nancelot = indy675 = DTW?  I'm not sure I can go that far.  I'm no writing expert, but the fact that nancelot uses clear, complete, well-punctuated sentences, makes me suspect she's not the same as indy675.

                    ----------------
                    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

                    by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 07:57:37 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Look at indy's diaries (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      gpm, kenoyer130

                      They are written in clear, complete, well-punctuated sentences.

                      I can't say anything about nancelot, but I'm nearly conviced that TDW and indy675 are the same person.  The writing style is remarkably similar.

                      •  Yeah, TDW = indy675. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Buckeye BattleCry, kenoyer130

                        Other diarists have made this case pretty effectively, and I believe that.  I'm not ready to throw nancelot in there.  In addition to the writing style, she also seems less alarmist than the other "two."  I'm not saying she's NOT indy675, I just see no reason to believe so.

                        ----------------
                        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

                        by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 08:13:50 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Ok, I've done some digging (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          gpm, kenoyer130

                          Only using google, nothing else.  I've found that indy675 does indeed use the background information (vietnam veteran, ex-Navy hospital corps, same age) that is used by TDW.  

                          •  And a person with the **same name** (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            gpm, kenoyer130

                            is a clinical researcher at an institute of psychophysiology in Georgia.  Wow, this is getting strange.

                          •  Think we're part of an experiment or something? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kenoyer130

                            That thought had crossed my mind.  I find it hard to believe somebody would be so brazen about posting utter BS if the only payoff was some warm fuzzies from other Kossacks.

                            ----------------
                            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

                            by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 09:36:53 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I don't know what's going on (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kenoyer130

                            There are so many email addys and usernames I'm finding all over the blogosphere that I don't know how to bring it all together yet.

                          •  Ok, I think the .. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kenoyer130

                            "Institute of Applied Psychophysiology" in Georgia doesn't actually exist. The only links I can find to it go lead to some weird blog.

                          •  Wow. This is a weird, weird episode. (NT) (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kenoyer130

                            ----------------
                            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

                            by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 11:03:45 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I don't know how to get into it all (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Hind2, kenoyer130

                            without giving out personal information, so I'm going to be careful what I write.  Anyway, I've tracked about a half dozen blogs with low traffic, a gazillion email addresses, many blogger profiles, all leading to this one diarist.  She's added PhD and a few other nifty degrees to her name on at least one website.  Whether they're legit I have no idea. The information she gave about TDW (found TDW's posts as well) is the same information she uses to describe herself on other websites.

                            I'm convinced she's a true progressive and for the life of me I can't figure out why this is going down the way it's going down.

                          •  wow... nice job folks. (0+ / 0-)

                            those are some pretty crazy things happening.  It is very mental.  Just shows that there are people in need of help from every walk of life.  Mabey it was a joke but I doubt it.  Going through the trouble of continuing to post under different names and Indy is wierd.  She carried on little messaging back and forth with herself.  Thats just crazy.

                  •  You (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kenoyer130

                    have gone off the rails now. I have contacted Markos.

                    •  gone off the rails for clicking... (0+ / 1-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Hidden by:
                      nancelot

                      on your name?  You are Indy.  Just admit it.  Its really really sad you have to do this to yourself.  You have been exposed.  Move on.  Or just quit posting under your current names and create a new one.  Get a fresh start.  I am not trying to be mean.  Your address was easily seen by clicking on your name.  

                      I have contacted Markos about your multiple user names and your totally bogus diary.

                  •  I don't think so (0+ / 0-)

                    Nancelot is listed in the dkosopedia local section.  This user is not even close to Georgia.

                  •  DUDE give her a break! (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    boofdah

                    boofdah I mean. So nan writes something nice and we're all supposed to do research on her case?

                    Your point on the original diarist being a complete FRAUD is well taken by me. Beleive me I had to tell my wife to chill out when she was showing me this and tell her I didn't buy it either. But so she wants to give the diarist the benefit of the dought that's her business. So she's of a different mind don't go jumping on her case.

                    And for someone who's been preaching to other kosacks that this board is nothing but a forum for political activism and that's it--it really helps us all that you have the time to sit around and do internet stalking on kosack user names. Thanks, man. Really appreciate your energies getting out the vote.

                    •  do what? (0+ / 0-)

                      are you talking about me?  I never said anything about this only being a forum for political activism.  Go back and check.

                      Also all I did was click on her name to read some of her diaries....  the only thing on the screen is her email address.  All the other things that went down in this post were other peoples doing.  But its pretty much been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Nan is in fact Indy and TDW.  This isnt about stalking anyone... it goes to show how infiltrated this site is with crazies.  

                      As far as how much time I put into the information I gathered... it was about 10 minutes.

                    •  Thanks honey--gotta love liberal chivalry. ;) (0+ / 0-)

                      n/t

            •  but if it is made up.... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              scrutinizer

              who is villifying you?  If there are plenty of real examples use them.  But to use a totally fabricated one to defend your point is ridiculous.  Thats like me saying people hate me because I wear brown shoes... then telling you a story about people that beat me up because of brown shoes.... then me conceding that the story was bullshit.... then saying it could have been true... then you agreeing with me that people hate me because of my brown shoes.

              but because the situation, real or imagined, was a stark reminder that we liberals continue to be vilified, demonized, and bullied at every turn. I'm sure we all fear that something like this really could happen to one of us, because of the wonderful climate of Americans vs. Americans that Our Dear Uniter has created for us.

              •  Ummm...I think I just did. (0+ / 0-)

                although I haven't been threatened or beaten up, I've gotten nasty comments and middle fingers out the window on the road because of my pro-Democratic bumperstickers.

                If you want to hear more vilifying and stirring up the hate base, you need only to tune into Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Mike Savage, or any other (very much-worshipped) media personality who has on more than one occasion, defended and even encouraged demeaning behavior and even violence against liberals.

              •  If you ask journalists who pursue local news (0+ / 0-)

                wonder if they will not confirm that getting news that used to be public information has become almost impossible.  I read an article about the how "The Patriot Act" has changed everything and by refusing to reveal information, it reduces staff costs etc.

                Wish I could remember where I read the article but I sure don't.  But as I recalled the article covered events very similar to this one in discussion.  Newspapers used to report car accidents, neighbor conflicts, stabbings, etc and those were the kinds of events that are not being reported because law enforcement can now claim right to confidentiality.

                It is for this reason that I would hesitate to decide one way or the other about the voracity of this case.  And who and when IC units allow those beyond family members into visit is up in the air also.  My husband in presently in a Medical Intensive Unit and was admitted there on Sat. AM.  He was transported by ambulance, red light and siren to an area medical center, one of the major med centers here.  I have been very surprised at the visiting hours - 8:30AM-7:30PM, 9:00PM-11:00PM and there is a family waiting room in which family members can spend the night.  No sleeping in patient rooms.  I add all this to say that they don't define family members but ask that family members designate a spokesperson and that is the person with whom the hospital staff will interact and answer questions.

                This is Kansas and their policies might vary from Georgia but I know my husband's favorite cousin has   been able to get the staff to take a phone to Hub's room so that she could talk to him yesterday, of course, she told them she was his sister.  So I don't ask for a phone to tbe taken because I can drive up.  He can ask his nurse to bring a cell phone (may be satilite phone, so he can call me)

                This information may have no bearing on this situation but I thought it offers another aspect with which to make a comparison.

                Since there isn't one particular definition for us liberals I would encourage all to be very careful about say, "we liberals are OR supposed to be" because it is going to be a inaccurate.  We vary across the spectrum and tend to make decisions based on our personal experiences in life just like folks on the other side or maybe what kind of doctrination one might have been spoon fed since youth.  And the later part of the statement might have more to do with the last generation and it may or may not apply more to the rightwing Christian movement.  I believe it does but that is just my experience.

                Until and unless a family member steps forward to validate or prove this story false, I don't see how anyone can decide one way or another.  And I fail to see what validity it has for our political purposes right now on dkos.  It might distract discussion from the important races that need our support to win in Nov. and it might work to split the dkos participants to one side or another but it is not going to develop into a national movement (or int'l, sorry left out part of our population)to move the country one way or another at this point in time.

                So instead of haggling with each other over this event why not find a politicians you can throw yourself behind and put your energies to excellent use.  At a later time when more facts can be uncovered there is no reason one couldn't return to if if you believe there is reason.

                Off to the MICU to see how Hub is doing today, already talked to the doc, but need to tell Hub nNO WAY he is going home today.  If anyone believes in them and have any extra prayers send them our way, we can use them right now.

                Peace be with you,
                PaintyKat

                Thou Shalt NOT Whine...Get to WORK! Just a painty kat - NOT that be meanie cat

                by PaintyKat on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 12:59:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  How (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gpm

              do you care about the 'downtrodden and fucked-on' when you don't believe that the person is 'downtrodden and fucked-on'?

              That--and the fact that it's just fucking callous to blow off another person's pain as being "fake" when maybe it isn't--is why I'm reserving judgment (for now). Fuckall, I thought we were supposed to be liberals, ummm, who like, CARE about the downtrodden and fucked-on?

              Do you remember the incident when two actors were accused of rape in Tennessee? The story was that she went to their trailer and some moments later, she ran screaming and naked from the trailer. Now at first, I didn't doubt her, or rather, I didn't immediately claim that she lied. But then it came out later that the woman went to the actors' hotel room and had sex with them the night before, well, I became skeptical.

              Now a person would have to be an utter jackass to immediately conclude that a woman is lying (while having nothing to go on to make this conclusion) when she claims rape.

              But what if the story changes? What if she left something out, something as important as visiting the accused the night before and having sex with one or both? Would I be callous if I questioned why she visited the actors the night before? I don't know about you, but if I was raped at the hotel, I seriously doubt I'd visit them the next day, alone. Why would you be afraid to report the rape at the hotel but not in the trailer? I tried on every conceivable explanation as to why she didn't press charges the first time and none of these 'rationalizations' made any sense. The charges were thrown out by the way. Now how is it possible to sympathize with a rape victim who wasn't raped? I can feel sympathy for mental issues (if there were any), but not for being raped, since she wasn't. And you want people to show more sympathy for a victim who many here don't believe exists. In other words, how do we sympathize with an assault victim when we don't believe (or have doubts) an assault took place?

              IMO, I think the story in the diary touched a nerve with a lot of us, not because of the South or "redneck" stereotypes

              Yes, for some us, it was the Southern stereotypes. Being emotional doesn't exactly explain her remarks since she's made similar ones before she wrote this diary.

              I'm sure we all fear that something like this really could happen to one of us,

              Fear displaying a bumper sticker? Not at all.

              The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

              by callmecassandra on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 11:29:37 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Like I said above, I'm reserving judgment... (0+ / 0-)

                ...and I too am from the South, and I didn't take the original diary quite as personally as some Kossacks did, evidently.

                I'm reserving judgment because this is overall a caring community--and whether or not this incident really did take place, seriously, what is wrong with showing some human compassion for a fellow Kossack?

                If it turns out that we really did get "punk'd" (as my husband puts it), then yes, I'll judge away, because making up a story like this just to get sympathy from other people really IS a shitty thing to do.

                •  You're not getting me. (0+ / 0-)

                  Many people don't believe the story. Period. So why should they show sympathy for a situation that they don't believe (with good reason) occurred? Some of us doubted the story, so why are asking questions wrong or should be held back until 'further notice'?

                  The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                  by callmecassandra on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 09:01:59 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Asking questions isn't wrong (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    boofdah

                    Condemning Kossacks who aren't as well-informed and/or don't have time to engage in paranoid internet sluething is a little out-of-line imnsho.

                    •  And that's why I said, (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      boofdah

                      skepticism isn't cruelty unless it's laced with nastiness. Asking questions with good reason, even with or without the sleuthing, isn't out of line. And not wanting to be played for a chump isn't out of line either. People were considering starting a fund for this person who's most likely a liar. Actually, I think she was lying. That's called a scam.

                      Now if people were calling the well-wishers stupid or fools, this I do believe was out of line. I very much prefer to conversate with people who have a heart. And if the majority here lacked compassion, I wouldn't give a damn if they got scammed.

                      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                      by callmecassandra on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 03:36:09 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  check out nancelots email.... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Buckeye BattleCry

              indy something or other..... hmmm.  wonder if that is just happen chance that indy was the same tag as the person who wrote the original false diary?  

            •  I am an RN... (0+ / 0-)

              and friends come into the hospital all the time.  If family is okay with them being in the room we are as well.  I care.  Especially about my mother that lives about 20 mintues from where the fake incident took place and who drives a car with a W slashed out bumper sticker.  So I called her and when she said she had heard nothing about it I decided to verify it through another source.  I didnt want my mom to be scared to drive around and by that point I had a hunch that this was bogus.

              You are getting played.  If you cant see that I am not sure what it will take.  Indy is to say that they are not at starbucks venting frustration.  I never said that Indy should be at the hospital by the way.  Some other people did but I didnt.  I did say that if they want to catch the people they should get it in the local papers because they knew nothing of it.

              Fuckall, I thought we were supposed to be liberals, ummmm, who like, CARE about the truth?  

              Get a clue.

            •  This may be a difference in the way you and I (0+ / 0-)

              see progressivism, but it seems to me that our first obligation is to accuracy, even at the peril of seeming unsympathetic.

              But I make no claim that this is what progressivism is, or that you should believe as I do.  It's just my approach.

              ----------------
              The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

              by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 07:58:51 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Thank you for your perspective. (0+ / 0-)

            It's very informative for me.

            ----------------
            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

            by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 07:55:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Good grief (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Busted Flat in Baton Rouge

      You should, at the very least, update the diary you wrote and remove anything that suggests a beating happened because of anti-Bush bumper stickers.  

  •  Hind2, thank you for your skepticism. (0+ / 0-)

    I have to go to a funeral now.  Can you please do me a favor and post a comment letting us know whether or not this diary made the recommended list?  I will be very interested to know.

    ----------------
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

    by gpm on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 10:01:27 AM PDT

      •  Huh. Unless I'm missing the post where (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        scrutinizer

        you let me know, I guess your diary didn't make the rec list.  While the false, hysterical one did.

        Fucking ridiculous.

        ----------------
        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

        by gpm on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 02:04:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  it didnt... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Buckeye BattleCry, scrutinizer, gpm

          but I dont really care if it did or not.  I dont post here all too often and this was way out of the box for me.  The wife and dogs left town and this story just struck a chord.  I appreciate the support though.  I really think that simple measures go a long way and I think that questioning was has been accepted as reality is a requirement in places like the world wide web....

          •  It's not so much for your sake (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            scrutinizer

            that I call it ridiculous -- I mean, you put some real work into your diary, but in the end, you're a stranger on the internet, so how invested can I really be in your life?  What really chaps my ass is that 400 people recommended the original fiction, but comparatively few recommended your debunking.

            You said in another post that your opinion is that the original diary was recced so much because it fits our biases.  Well, this diary is like a bucket of cold water snapping us out of it.  No wonder it wasn't recommended highly.

            I find this extremely disappointing.

            ----------------
            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

            by gpm on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 08:03:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  My Brother and My Republicans (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Helen in MD, kdub, coloradobl, boofdah, gpm, DrWolfy

    I have no idea and no opinion on whether the attack happened or not, or on whether it was politically-motivated if it did happen, but speaking from personal experience, I don't find the evidence of it not happening compelling yet.  If there's still no outside report on this in a few days (police, news, etc.), then that will be compelling evidence to me.  It took days for my brother's beating to show up in the news, and when it did, it showed up as a tiny police blotter blurb in a local paper (and never did make it online, at that).  There were police around from the start, but there were also close to a dozen first-hand, close-range witnesses anxious to tell their stories.  It took awhile before they could actually get anything out of my brother.

    Maybe it happened.  Maybe it didn't happen.  I think a lot of the things people are pointing to as sure-fire evidence that it didn't are not sure-fire at all.

    I also think, however, that this diarist has an important point about the way we talk and think about the Other here.  I understand that politics is hardball, and we have to be willing to get in the mud and throw them the anvil and all of that.  They will do what it takes to win, and so should we.  It's true.  But, what I don't buy is that we have to be equally as prone to dehumanizing them as well.  You can do bare-knuckles politics without turning your opponent into an animal, particularly when you're evisioning your opponent as a broad swatch of people, not just an individual candidate.  There are Republicans, and Southerners, and rednecks (who are not all the same group) in this world whom I love and would die for.  They are good people.  It wounds me when people talk about them as if they are not people at all.  They are dangerously misguided, but they laugh and cry and love, just as I do, and just as you do.  It saddens me how often I see evidence that we have forgotten that.

    •  you think the local police in a town... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Busted Flat in Baton Rouge

      of 20,000 people not having any clue about a beating that put a women in the ICU is not compelling evidence to say it didnt happen.  Thats is actually admirable.  Seriously.  I cant take issue with someone having a burden of proof set that high..

      Just wondering what will it take?  Also where did your brothers attack take place?  I know in birmingham it probably wouldnt make the paper if it was a younger male unless they were in the ICU but I think if it was a middle aged lady by herself in a mall parking lot it would probably even make the birmingham news... which has neighborhoods larger than the county.

      •  Ypsilanti (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Helen in MD, nancelot, gpm

        My brother's attack took place in Ypsilanti, MI (one town over from Ann Arbor, basically).

        I actually said in my comment what it would take.  If there's still no positive evidence of the attack in a few days, that would be compelling evidence to me that it didn't happen.  Knowing how the flow of information happened in my brother's situation, I don't find it implausible that you could be seeing and hearing what you're seeing and hearing, and yet still have the story be true.  Weird stuff happens in the first day or so after something like this.  Sometimes it really does take a couple of days for it to filter out.  I also don't think that the fact that the police dispatcher told you what she told you means that the police, in general, don't know about it.  And, by that, I am definitely not insinuating a cover-up of any kind.  I think there are any number of possibilities to explain why a dispatcher would either not know what you were talking about, not immediately recognize what you were talking about, or not be inclined to give out the information if she did know or recognize what you were talking about.  No nefarious intent required or assumed.  Just the way information travels.

        BTW, I grew up in an extremely small, rural community, and we had murders that didn't get into the news for days.  It seems strange, but it does happen.

        Again, I have no opinion on this particular situation, one way or the other.  Nor am I leaning one way or the other.  I'm just throwing in my anecdotal experience.  If the story is true, I'm sure we'll hear about it in the coming days.  If not, then not.  I'm guessing our intrepid investigators will stay on it.

        •  good enough. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gpm

          I really do like you sticking by your guns.  If I am ever charged of a crime I am requesting you be on the jury.

          A few thoughts though.  Even as recent as 5-6 years ago there were drastically fewer avenues for information to flow through... so to compare the local newspaper of 15-20 years ago or more is not really comparing the same things.  News flows a lot quicker now with cell phones and the internet.  The runaway bride story is a great example.  A decade ago that probably doesnt make national headlines because everyone is not forwarding it through emails and posting it on websites... then again cnn is in atlanta so mabey it does.  A guy who chose to go at Everest alone and ended up running out of O2 and dying made the local birmingham news within a few days.  But I think you get the jist.

          I also think there is something to be said about the fact that this was a middle aged women being beat by a group of young men.

          Again stick to your guns though.  I like that sort of attitude for sure.  You are a defense attorneys wet dream.

          •  Sticking to my guns (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nancelot, coloradobl, buddabelly

            I'm not just sticking to my guns for the sake of sticking to my guns.  I'm no Dubya.

            I am merely drawing from my own experience, and my own experience tells me that what many are assuming is impossible is, in fact, possible.  In fact, many of the very behaviors that people are pointing to as evidence that Indy must be lying are the very same behaviors that I exhibited in that situation.  I posted a diary to Daily Kos much like Indy's diary before I left to drive to Ann Arbor to be with my family because this place has become as much my home as my physical space.  What little information I had was sketchy and contradictory (which continued to be the case for weeks while accounts of what really happened were sorted out).  During the days we camped out in the Surgical ICU waiting room, I snuck down to the medical library to post updates and read Daily Kos because it was a touchstone of sanity for me.  And during those times online, I searched and searched for some mention of the attack in the news, and never found any.  It was a very confusing and muddled time for me.

            I simply cannot rule out as impossible that which I know to be possible, even though it be improbable.  It will take more evidence than we currently have for me to say, this is no longer in the realm of the possible.  And there is certainly nothing hinging on my ability to make A Decision on this right now.  If there is no harm in my waiting a few days to make A Decision, then I can't see why I should not wait to satisfy my own need for stronger evidence in the face of my experience.

            •  Sorry... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              buddabelly

              if that comment came across as it seems to have.  It wasnt meant as a passive agressive statement on your position.  I really do think you have a good point.  

              Very few things can be proved 100% incorrect or correct and the situation given is a plausible situation.  

              Thats why there are many more scientific theories than there are laws...  I can tell you are wise and I have nothing but love for your position.  Sorry if the "sticking to your guns" part came across as a backhanded comment.  

        •  Thanks HPE (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coloradobl

          As a therapist who has frequently worked with victims in a small town and a huge city, I can say without reservation that some things don't get on the news--even if you want it to. Also, there are often jurisdictional issues: county/city/state, etc. I agree with everything you said.

      •  Actually, let me clarify (0+ / 0-)

        I should not have used the word "compelling."  The evidence is, of course, compelling.  What I should have said is that I don't yet find it conclusive.

  •  A few thoughts here. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coloradobl, Hind2, boofdah, Cato come back

    I am not going to address the issue of whether the topic of the beating is an appropriate topic for this blog's venue.

    I am going to address a couple of other things. There is intense speculation that there is a scam going on, and there have been accusations as well.

    I searched through the comments and blog of Indy's partner, ***. It is evident that *** fits the description that Indy gave her, as well as the geographic location. The archives of that blog go back to Dec. of 2005. It is a news based blog, with references and citations. Indy's partner's uid# is 7XXXX. She has a healthy comment history here at Dkos, and you can read those blog articles, diary articles, or her comments, by checking it out yourself. Just do the backtracking. I will not reveal any data that makes this more public than it already is.

    For what it's worth, I think we all need to take a deep breath, wait a day or so, and then revisit the situation. It doesn't hurt anyone to offer sympathy. It does hurt everyone to hurl accusations.

    As to whether this blog is the appropriate venue for such diaries? I think the back-to-back occurrence of these past two emotionally charged diaries/responses has us all a little freaked out.

    I hope we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, and cause a clampdown on the community good will, while at the same time, I hope we keep the integrity of the blog's purpose.

    There are opportunities here to finesse our purpose and our community.

    peace.

    •  although I may have strayed at times.... (3+ / 0-)

      my focus was trying to point out facts.

      I think that people should just offer their sympathies and not recommend.  That way it stays off of the front page, which is watched and commented on by several outside parties.

      •  Good Job Hind (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gpm, Busted Flat in Baton Rouge

        We can busy our tiny, bored little minds with something else now.

        I suspected this was some kinda horseshit right off.

        Folks!  In the future ... if you're going to commit suicide, or your friend is hurt, or your house is being repossessed, or you're broke down on the highway, or you just got diagnosed with some horrible rash ...

        CALL THE FUCKING POLICE, A DOCTOR, OR YOUR MOM, WILL YA!!!

        THIS IS A FUCKING POLITICAL BLOG. NOT A BULLETIN BOARD!!!

        Housing bubble collapse? What housing bubble collapse? We're about to get a NEW House! Sorry to burst your bubble!

        by Detroit Mark on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 12:13:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hind2, I agree with you. (3+ / 0-)

        Maybe this did happen.  Maybe not.  Some candles and hugs and normal "sympathy cards" would have been sufficient.

        But a recommend?  When it has political connotations that are totally unproven.  Not.

        If my roommate were in a medically induced coma, I'd be at the hospital (and I probably would take a cab even if my car were in the shop/broken down/yada yada).

        This diary does more for dKos than you might think.  It only makes us wary of the ability of a "disinformation" freak to take dKos down some very dark alleys without a flashlight.

        Newspapers USED to have a rule of publishing nothing without confirmation of a story from a second, independent source.  It would keep them from getting "Ratherized", to coin a new adverb.  In the hurry to get the "news" out, all the media sources are now rushing to use internet sources (CNN, CBS, ABS are all now beginning the web to be their reporters).  That is probably positive, as long as they check their sources.

        dKos needs to do the same thing.  Discrediting dKos by salting the blog with "disinformation" could be the end of the relevance of this site.  We should be careful to ask sources for references, links, and especially independent verification of what is posted.  I am not trying to be a diary cop, nor do I think that 95% of the posts need any such comment, but there are diaries which cause dKos to go through a "infinite do loop" of self-examination and recrimination.  We don't have time for this and it just diverts attention from November 7.

        Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. H. L. Mencken

        by captainlaser on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 12:34:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Or if all you are hoping for (5+ / 0-)

    Is mass sympathy or prayers, put it in the pastor dan diary.

    That seems to be an appropriate venue for such irrelevence.

    If you want some actual action on a political activity, or someone human rights being violated by an organization or government ... let us know!

    It's pretty fucking simple!

    Housing bubble collapse? What housing bubble collapse? We're about to get a NEW House! Sorry to burst your bubble!

    by Detroit Mark on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 12:21:13 PM PDT

  •  It could have happened anywhere (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah

    I was beat up in the North for politics back in the 1960s. The United States is a violent society. Statistically the south is more violent than the north. Those are all facts.

    Unfortunately, as you point out, it is also a fact that many northerners are prejudiced against the south. Unfortunately, as you don't point out, many southerners are also prejudiced against the north. Blame family traditions, especially families that were split by the Civil War. Blame state textbook approval boards. But those are all facts.

    I was skeptical about the diary, but I am a historian and am trained to be skeptical about reports. Most people are not so trained, unfortunately. Educate them.

  •  I think indy and TDW are the same person (0+ / 0-)

    I looked over comments by both user names and the writing style is remarkably similar.

    I popped over to TDW's blog and all the posts, at least for October, September & August, were written by "indy6".  So which contributor is supposed to be TDW?  Weird.

  •  Indy continues to post on TDW's blog (0+ / 0-)

    http://lanternbrigade.blogspot.com/

    ...but doesn't mention that her co-blogger is in a coma, nor does Indy675 respond to any of the questions on DailyKos.

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