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I have read  quite  afew  diaries and comments yesterday from people that can't bring it upon themselves to back Harold Ford in the TN senate race against Bob Corker. It's your right  not to of course, but it seems to me that if you want to criticize at this late stage of the game, you ought to offer a solution.  To those who can't back Ford in our quest to take on the senate, who would be your ideal candidate for a TN senate seat? It need not be this year, let's say its in a hypothetical head to head with Corker or to take on Lamar Alexander (he seems to have totally vanished, BTW).

Who would this candidate specifically ( I want to see names) and why do you think this person would be a good Democratic candidate. IMHO, Ford is probably not conservative enough for many in TN, although I fervently hope not. Even the Democrats who win in TN, and there aren't that many these days, tend to be of the right. This is a state that is trending solidly away from us. I look at the TN House delegation and see conservative Demos like Jim Coooper and Lincoln Davis. I see a conservative governor like Phil Bredeesen. I also look at the past ten years of elections and see that people like Al Gore and  Jim Sasser, fine men, but not even that liberal, got beaten here because they weren't conservative enough. Who would be a better candidate than Ford?

Originally posted to Tipsy McStagger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:29 AM PST.

Poll

Who would you like to see Run for senate in TN

26%9 votes
47%16 votes
8%3 votes
5%2 votes
11%4 votes

| 34 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  I agree with your point, Tipsy, but... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChicagoDem, Cat4everrr, Caldonia

    ...the only people here who complain about Ford who matter are those who live and vote in Tennessee.  Don't worry about the rest.

    Every single Dem candidate, no matter if liberal, moderate, or conservative, is going to have some detractors on a blog with as many registered users as DailyKos has.  How could it be any other way?

    In a time of war, is that really the time to be asking whether we should be at war?...When it is over we should ask whether we should leave. -- Stephen Colbert

    by DCCyclone on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:30:43 AM PST

    •  I agree but (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cat4everrr, NickM, deathsinger

      I just dont get the attitude. They want things to be PERFECT for them. They can't accept the fact that TN is quite conservative and that Harold Ford is probably as good as it gets. Personally, I LIKE Harold Ford. I think the party needs more people like him. They also don't appreciate the bigger picture of a Ford victory, which I still think can happen. They have their "sticking points" and won't touch him because of them.

      •  And it is why (0+ / 0-)

        the Republicans are in control and the Democrats are not.  No one on the far right is in favor of Corker or Alexander.

        The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

        by deathsinger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:37:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Expecting party loyalty to be a 2... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Meteor Blades, NickM, Pithy Cherub

        way street isn't expecting perfection.  We're not stupid--we know that Ford's ideological positioning is pretty much of a necessity to get elected statewide in TN.  It's Ford's failure to support his party that makes us leery about supporting him.

        He doesn't support the Dem nominee for his own seat.  He doesn't support the Dem nominee in CT-Sen--he supports that nominee's opponent.  He took an unnecessary swipe at Kerry this week.

        Obviously, every sane person on this site wants to see Ford win, as his seat could be the difference in making Reid ML.  There are plenty of us, however, who have absolutely no enthusiasm for the man and who have their doubts about the kind of senator he will become if he is elected.

        Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

        by RFK Lives on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:45:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Expecting party loyalty to be a ... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RFK Lives

          ...2-way street isn't expecting perfection." Exactly. I am so sick of these mod-con Dems who demand that party leftists get behind them to help elect people with whom we have strong differences, yet trash us and undermine our candidates whenever they get the opportunity.

          •  Can you cite an example of this? (0+ / 0-)

            I see the trashing coming exclusivelly from the far left. They trashed Casey, Ford, Langegin. Forget anyone associated with the DLC, and even if he's not, they say he is, like Casey. Why does the far left of this  party NEVER have to compromise on anything?

            •  Supporting your party's nominees is not... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Meteor Blades

              a position to be compromised.  As my post noted, I know of at least 2 Dem nominees whom Ford is not supporting.

              I don't like Ford's vote on the MCA, I think his comments about NJ's Supreme Court were unnecessary, and I'm not impressed w/ what I've heard him say about the war.  I can swallow all that and say that we must support the "D."  When I see Ford say that he doesn't have to support the D, I have a problem.

              We're the ones compromising here, Ford is the one who refuses to compromise on party loyalty.

              Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

              by RFK Lives on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:50:07 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Puhleez. Anybody on the far left of the party ... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              RFK Lives

              ...and I am one who has worked diligently for Democratic candidates for 40 years, has compromised repeatedly since 1968. We vote for moderates, we work for them, we give them money for their campaigns, and what do we get for our trouble: Comments like Ellen Tauscher saying she and her New Dems won't let the left take the party over a cliff. Puhleez.

              As Chris Bowers noted:

              We are not wanted by large sections of the Democratic leadership. There are many out there who want our money, but they don't want us. There are many out there who want our precinct-by-precinct activism to help GOTV, but they don't want us. There are many out there who want us to fire up the base, but they don't want us. There are many out there who want to use our media to help spread their message, but they don't want us. There are many out there who want us to support primary winners, but they don't want to do the same. There are many out there who want us to fight Republicans, while they say they want to work with both sides. There are many out there who wanted us to play by Democratic Party rules, but they they have no intention of playing by those rules themselves. To them, we are akin to going over the cliff.

              They languished in the minority for a decade, and when the chance to take power finally came back--a chance that we gave them--There are many out there who decided they didn't need us anymore. We are why they have never been closer to Republicans in fundraising. We are why the base is fired up. We are why they finally decided to run on Iraq. We are why they have so many more volunteers than they have ever had before. We are why there are more Democrats running for more seats than at any time in the past. We are why there is progressive media now. We are why countless Republican scandals have had a shelf life of more than two days in the established media. Every major improvement in Democratic infrastructure that took place over the past two years found its birth, incubation, and primary means of support in the netroots.

  •  is Alexander running again? (0+ / 0-)

    He's a first-termer, right?  I say run somebody people are used to voting for, which means Bredesen.  Unless he's somebody's running mate, that is.

    There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured with what is right with America. -- Bill Clinton

    by ThirstyGator on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:32:17 AM PST

    •  Alexander won in 2002 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ThirstyGator

      Which means he will be up in 2008.  Bredesen is running for governor this year, I seriously doubt he'll run for Senator in 2008.

      The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

      by deathsinger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:36:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  so who are the likely candidates? (0+ / 0-)

        Not a Tennessean, just curious.

        There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured with what is right with America. -- Bill Clinton

        by ThirstyGator on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:02:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If Ford loses (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ThirstyGator

          I think he will run again in 2008.  Other than that the field is wide, wide open.  I don't see any of the current reps going after the position for a variety of reasons.  Of course this is over a year away and many things can change in that time.

          The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

          by deathsinger on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:16:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  I think the Ford-bashers need to realize (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brownsox, mango, Tipsy McStagger

    we can't afford to be so picky ... yet.

    It's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason. Beggars can't be choosers. When we aren't beggars anymore, then I'll be the first to step up and demand better candidates.

    In the meantime, though, we're beggars. And we can only choose Democrats.

    -7.63, -7.59 "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, things aren't going to get better -- they're not!" --- Dr. Seuss, "The Lorax"

    by droogie6655321 on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:33:50 AM PST

    •  When won't we be beggars? (0+ / 0-)

      After 2006, with (best case) razor-thin majorities in the House and Senate, with the margin made up of center-right first-termers in purple districts and states?  After 2008, with (best-case) the White House and majorities in both houses?  Remember how Clinton blew it by being "too liberal" (gays in the military)?

      Do you really intend to fight for primary challengers against people like Sestak, the Murphys, Tammy Duckworth, Lampson if they end up taking the wrong stances on key issues?

      "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

      by Pesto on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:13:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Homophobes (0+ / 0-)

      have no place in the Democratic Party.  They simply make a mockery of Democratic values — like the idea that in a pluralistic society, everyone should have a seat at the table.  

      In South Carolina in 2002 and 2004, the Democrats ran two candidates for U.S. Senate, Alex Sanders and Inez Tenenbaum, who ended up pandering to homophobes and smearing queers in the assumption that they had to in order to win.  They both lost by 10 points.  If progressive voters are only 20% of the electorate, how many of them need to stay home to defeat a homophobe running on the Democratic line?

      We'll see if Ford does any better on Tuesday.  Latest polls I saw had him slipping, now down — by about 10 points.  

  •  People miss the point about Ford (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cat4everrr, NCrefugee

    The fact is, he has to ACT like a bigot to be elected.

    The hard truth is this: Too many people in TN are not interested in decency. Flame me all the fuck you want for saying that, but they just aren't. They are racist and backwards, and that's why a black man like Ford has to practically act like a racist himself to get elected. (And his lightened skin tone helps, I guarantee. If he were a darker shade he'd be screwed.)

    Troll-rate me if you must, but there is truth in what I'm saying. I really doubt Ford is a bigot in any way. He probably supports gay marriage. But he has to lie his ass off to the people of TN to get in there. Just let him do it.

    Whackos get their info thru the Christian right. We'll bring them out to vote against something and make sure the public lets the whole thing slip past them.

    by chemsmith on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:42:18 AM PST

    •  Let me note: (0+ / 0-)

      I said TOO MANY in TN are not interested in decency.

      Many there ARE good people. Just not enough. Amazingly, Gore came from there, but you noticed they still voted for Bush in 2000. Pathetic.

      Whackos get their info thru the Christian right. We'll bring them out to vote against something and make sure the public lets the whole thing slip past them.

      by chemsmith on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:43:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I've worked for some progressive causes... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Caldonia

      and worked with his personally a couple times and let me just note that Harold Ford was always there providing his time, influence and leadership.  He is running a campaign right now, but when the time comes, he will be a good Senator and will vote with progressive values.  

      So yes Chem, he is acting this way because he's trying to outflank Corker...who is not trusted by the wingers as being right enough.  

    •  If Ford isn't really a center-right asshole (0+ / 0-)

      then he deserves an Oscar.

      "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

      by Pesto on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:13:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  He will be held to his campaign statements (0+ / 0-)

      just like any other candidate.  He cannot simply change his tune after the election.  To do so would be a violation of the covenant between electorate and candidate.  As a Senator, he will be held by the electorate to the promises and statements he made as a candidate.  One false move and his future political career is toast.

      •  How come (0+ / 0-)

        We never hold Democrats who switch on abortion from the pro life side to pro choice to this standard?

        •  you provide no examples (0+ / 0-)

          So I have no way to answer that question.  I'm not aware of any Democrats who campaign as anti-choice and vote pro-choice in Congress.  And anyway, if there were such Democrats, it would not be my place to "hold them to that standard", for I am pro-choice myself, and I live in an area where only pro-choice candidates could get elected.  If anyone were to "hold them to that standard", it would be the anti-choice Democratic voters that supported the candidate in their campaign for office.  

          •  Plent of candidates have moved over the years (0+ / 0-)

            Gore became much more pro choice as did Clinton. Sam Nunn was outright anti abortion and switched. I dont' recally anyone castigating them over that and saying they could not be trusted.

            •  it's fair game (0+ / 0-)

              for politicians to change positions on an issue in a new campaign.  The "covenant" I referred to between electorate and candidate expires at the end of the term to which the candidate was elected.  One has to allow for that...people of good conscience are free to change their minds on issues.  

              •  Did you castigate Kucinich (0+ / 0-)

                When he flip flopped to pro choice almost immediately after being relected to the house so he could run for president?

                •  I wasn't aware of Kucinich (0+ / 0-)

                  If I had known about that, it certainly wouldn't have helped my impressions of him, nor would it help his impressions with voters in the presidential race.    But I was a Dean supporter, never had any interest whatsoever in Kucinich as a candidate.  Nor do I live in his district...the "covenant" is between the voters and the candidate they elect.  Non-constituents aren't party to the deal.  I imagine Kucinich could have, after dropping out of the presidential race, reverted to his original anti-choice position for his House race.  Whether that would fly would not have been up to me, but to the voters in his district.  Apparently, whatever he did, they didn't care.  

    •  If the democratic party doesn't (0+ / 0-)

      begin to earnestly practice the politics of inclusivity, then our future is dead. The last six years should have taught us that. We must reach voters in the south and the mid-west. Otherwise we will have to fight tooth and nail for every vote in every election, in order to maintain a modicum of power. A real progressive agenda will be better served by the security of a tolerant and inclusive party. I am far to the left of most Southern pols, but I believe that political diversity is one of the strengths of our party. We can look to the leadership of the last six years to see what happens when ideology runs rampant, and the center is ignored.

      Thanks for the American dream, To vulgarize and to falsify until the bare lies shine through. -william s. burroughs-

      by TheGardener on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:32:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  two things (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NickM

    not a bad post, but -

    the examples of Gore and Sasser are poor choices.  Gore ran a piss-poor campaign in Tennesseeas a Presidential candidate, essentially taking it for granted and paying the price.

    Sasser didn't run a great campaign and was also a victim of the national mood and had the misfortune of being opposed by a perfect candidate in Fred Thompson - it was 1994 remember, not a great year for Democrats.

    Other than that, yes, TN Democratic candidates are more conservative - because us TN Dem voters tend to be more conservative.  

    Can I think of the perfect candidate???  Yes.... Ned McWhorter.  Now if we could only get a time machine to bring back a younger Ned.

  •  What I'm afraid of with Ford (5+ / 0-)

    I like some things I know about him.  For example, his staunch defense of Murtha against Mean Jean Schmidt's lowdown attack on his courage (Thinking about that really makes my blood boil).

    I have no problem with moderate Democrats.   I have a problem with Democrats who attack their own - like Leiberman.   I'm afraid that Ford might be one of these - always looking to distance himself from the party or from liberals.  

    His response to the NJ Supreme Court decision on gay marriage was a good indicator of where he is on this kind of stuff.   He should have said - it's New Jersey, its the NJ Constitution - NJ can do things its own way, and so can Tennessee.  But let's not get distracted from the Iraq War/economic inequality rising/incompetence/corruption - because that's what the Hasterts and Delays and Cheneys and Corkers want you to do . . . etc.

    •  Attack his own like, say, Steve Cohen... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NickM, chuckvw

      ...the winner of the Democratic primary in TN-9, where Ford and his father have held the seat since 1975, and now want Jake Ford, the independent, to win?

      •  I think you're mistaken (0+ / 0-)

        you have a mispelling.  

        It's not "Jake" Ford, it's "Joke" Ford.

        Interesting to note yesterday that the crowd went pretty wild when Bill Clinton recognized Senator Cohen sitting in the audience.

    •  I understand your fear, but (0+ / 0-)

      Ford has represented the 9th district for a while. My question is this, does he have a history of distancing himself from the party ? I live in the south, so I make allowances when it comes to certain things. I am looking at the big picture though, and wondering where the fear comes from. His record looks pretty good. That being said, the kind of ideology that will win in the south scares me too  

      Thanks for the American dream, To vulgarize and to falsify until the bare lies shine through. -william s. burroughs-

      by TheGardener on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:22:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not so simple (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NickM

    I do not like Ford but I understand the specifics of the situation, trying to run as a Democrat in a very red state. I give Dems in red states a whole lot of latitude.

    I do not vote in TN so my opinion does not matter much anyway. I chose not to give him my $20, not the end of the world. The point I tried to make a week or so ago was not that I don't support Ford or that others should not but just that people should be aware that they may have to pay the piper later. I do not consider Mary Landrieu to be a real Democrat anymore. On every issue that is of crucial importance to Democrats she let's us down. We have several people in the party who are like this - really and truly DINOS. Should people in their states support them? I would reluctantly say yes but be aware that it also causes problems on the other end - lack of party coherence, lack of ability of Dems to fight back on important issues. Giving cover to the Bush admin on their most disgusting policies. I takes a toll. My senator is Lieberman. We forgave. We made compromises. We looked the other way. We begged and pleaded, until their was nothing left. At one time, he too was a good Dem at one time.

    So yes, support Ford but be aware that we may indeed have Lieberman Jr. on our hands someday in the future.

    One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him -Booker T Washington

    by gladkov on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:47:01 AM PST

    •  I agree but (0+ / 0-)

      Lieberman JR is better than Corker the Elder.

      •  Not so sure.. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chuckvw, TheGardener

        I have studied Joe for a year now. He is now better than the worst of the neocons. Sure, he'll throw a vote our way when he knows we will lose anyway but when it comes to policy, Joe was right there supporting the war, torture, wiretaps, suspension of habeus corpus..

        Ford voting to suspend habeus corpus was truly a horrible way to start things off. People can wave that 88% dem vote thing under my nose all they want, suspending habeus corpus equals about 1000 of those other things.

        Again, I'm not saying don't vote for Ford. I'm saying we have to somehow find a solution to these Dems who undermine the party from within. I understand being conservative in a red state but some choices are just beyond the pale. For example, I can see Ford not being for gay marriage but supporting an all-out constitutional ban? Very, very scary.

        One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him -Booker T Washington

        by gladkov on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:54:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  On habeus corpus (0+ / 0-)

          I have heard plenty of speculation about holding this administration to account. I hope we hold dems accountable, where it is applicable, too. I support Ford, volunteer for him in fact, But IMHO, elected or not, he has to answer for habeus corpus along with everyone else responsible.

          Thanks for the American dream, To vulgarize and to falsify until the bare lies shine through. -william s. burroughs-

          by TheGardener on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:39:37 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Single issue Dems (0+ / 0-)

          This is the problem. If Ford he votes for the amendment banning gay marriage, and still votes with Dems 88% of the time we're still better off than if Corker votes for the ban and with Dems 2% of the time.

          With Corker Dems won't control the agenda, meaning that marriage ban will come back up before the Senate.  With Ford, the chances of the ban ever being brought up in the Senate are MUCH slimmer.  

          Plus, let Ford become trusted by the voters.  Once that happens, he can be a cheerleader for causes he sees fit.  If a ban like that came up, he could either try and persuade his contituents to move with him, or he could vote how they want him to vote.  I hate to say this, but isn't that what representative democracy is about?  

          I will say this, I don't want to see an amendment passed.  That is in direct conflict with the will of the people of Tennessee though.

    •  Did you support his primary opponent? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cat4everrr

      I just don't understand why this is an issue in friggin LATE OCTOBER (and early November).  I mean I'm all for primary challenges to sellout Democrats, especially if we're talking about an incumbent who's let us down.  But uhm, it's a few days before the election.  There's not a lot anyone can do now except get all Cassandra about it.

      Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

      by ChicagoDem on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:54:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Talking to me? (0+ / 0-)

        Again I live in CT, not TN. I always find it funny when folks out of state talk about "supporting" or "not supporting" a candidate. For me support means around a $20 bill, the rest of my time and energies go to local races unless there is something really special - getting rid of Santorum, Jim Webb etc.

        One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him -Booker T Washington

        by gladkov on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 07:57:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sure, but... (0+ / 0-)

          Were you blogging about it?  Paying attention to the race at all?

          I'm not trying to pick on you, gladkov (I sure wasn't paying attention to TN back then, and my involvement is about what yours is).  It's just that I don't understand what people think turning on Ford now is going to accomplish.  Sure, turn on him after the election, when the Senate is in our hands and we need to keep the guy honest, but what's the point of even talking about him right now?

          Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

          by ChicagoDem on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:00:35 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's just that.. (0+ / 0-)

            Ford makes statements on things that are just unnecessary. For example, he felt compelled to go defend Joe Lieberman. Completely unnecessary, he could simply have said, "That's a CT issue, I'm interested in what's going on here..."

            Me giving critiques of the people who are in the primary for a party requires just too much time and wouldn't make much of a difference since I don't vote there. Ford was the best primary choice to win the election. Period. But that doesn't mean he won't cause big problems for Dem unity and ability to fight as a group later. So it's not so cut and dried.

            One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him -Booker T Washington

            by gladkov on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:08:28 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh yeah, and... (0+ / 0-)

              I'll probably be right next to you in condemning him when he lists rightward after the election.  I just don't get the timing of the wave of anti-Ford sentiment that washed over the board when it did.

              There's a lot of uncertainty about what he'll do when he's in a Democratic Senate.  As long as he doesn't side with the Republicans on too many issues, he may be worth having -- presumably Dems can keep votes on social issues where he'd be REALLY damaging bottled up in committee.  But I'd rather be attacking a Democrat in a Democratic Senate than just being pissed at just another crazy winger in a Republican Senate.

              Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

              by ChicagoDem on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:18:12 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  the timing (0+ / 0-)

                is related to Ford's statement last week on gay marriage.  Until then, I had accepted that he was the Democratic nominee and it was important to stick together with the team, even though I didn't like his political background.  But his comment was completely unneccessary, mean-spirited, and yes, homophobic.  I came to the conclusion that the party would actually be worse with him in power because he would muddle the party's values just as Lieberman and Miller have done.

                Not that it makes much difference, really...I don't live in TN.  But if Ford loses, I sure won't shed any tears over it.

    •  very perceptive (0+ / 0-)

      Thanks for the antidote to the "as long as there's a (D) after the name" thinking.  I agree with you, that this kind of thinking causes big problems at the other end of the street.  Not the least of which is...it's even harder to get rid of an incumbent Senator in your own party than in the other one.  

  •  This is a ridiculous diary and misses the point (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cat4everrr, chuckvw

    of those who do not support Ford. Moreover, it sounds like a Republican talking point: "people complain about Bush, but what is their plan for Iraq, etc." These kinds of arguments are waste a of time. Try this instead: get over yourself and simply allow others to disagree with you. That will solve the problem.

    •  The Big Issue Is Control of the Senate (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Caldonia

      Not who the candidate from TN is. The Dems can't get a progressive elected from TN under today's conditions.

      •  That's my point (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Caldonia

        But some on the far left either can't or won't acknowledge this. They think Ted Kennedy would win in TN if he just "Fought for his beliefs" and "Stood with the party". I

        •  "Far Left" (0+ / 0-)

          is a pretty small group and has almost on influence within the party.   It sounds like a straw man to me.   The "Far Left" isn't generally asking people to stand with the Democratic Party.  If you mean "liberals" you should say "liberals" - labeling mainstream liberals as "Far Left" is also part of the problem.   But if you said liberals you'd be wrong in your assertion - almost all liberals are supporting Ford and shutting up about it.  It'd be nice if he'd return the favor.

          And it's not too much to ask a Democrat not to criticize other Dems.  Jim Webb also has a difficult campaign and he hasn't stooped to that stuff.  Ford can do it, too.

          •  Sorry but (0+ / 0-)

            There are people here on the far left of this party who are simply on crack. A few weeks ago, one such person suggested that because George McGovern won in South Dakota (last time in 74!!!!) that progresives could win there by running far left campaigns and simply fighting hard for their beliefs. This is just crazy

      •  Just what constitutes "control of the Senate"? (0+ / 0-)

        51 votes?  No.  There are still filibusters, holds, and any other number of procedures that a single Senator can use to gum up the works.  Total "control" of the Senate by the majority party can only start to happen when that party has 60 seats (necessary to invoke cloture on controversial legislation).  Of course, if your coalition of 60 includes Senators who frequently stray off the reservation (Lieberman, Salazar, Landrieu, etc.)...well then, not even 60 is enough.  

        The Senate is quite purposefully designed to be a "deliberative" body, not one that takes action.  The only way you get real action out of the Senate is an overwhelming majority, capable of riding roughshod over its own recalcitrant members.  

        The other point to remember is that not even 51 Democrats in the Senate can guarantee that Bush's judicial nominations go down.  There are plenty of Senate Democrats who have voted for Bush's picks time and again, who will still be in the Senate in January.  

      •  what percent of the electorate in TN (0+ / 0-)

        considers itself "progressive"?

    •  Disagreement is fine (0+ / 0-)

      but where we have serious disagreements it is not reasonable to expect us to provide funding. We all want forward to when he's clearly the better choice. But those with reservations about some of his positions may prefer to send their money to other needy candidates.

      I'm a linguist, licensed to use words any way I want to!

      by MakeChessNotWar on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 10:24:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I don't care for Ford. (0+ / 0-)

    But I fled the south long ago so you should ignore me.

    Those of you who did stay and fight have to do what a Dems gotta do. If Ford is it then go for it.

    Since all my old acquaintances in TN are in the "alcohol" business, maybe the Dems could find a way to give them a tax break and amnesty and a small business loan...

    Probably already Dems anyway though (they sure believed in the capitalist ethic (cash up front)) and still a small percentage constituency.

    The biggest threat to America is not communism, it's moving America toward a fascist theocracy... -- Frank Zappa

    by NCrefugee on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:07:26 AM PST

  •  I am not a Ford-basher (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NCrefugee

    I don't live in Tennessee now, but will be retiring back there in a few years, if I'm lucky. In the East, around Morristown. I don't think I have an unrealisticly-high opinion of Tennesseans (I think folks is folks wherever you go) but I'm somewhat amazed to hear everybody excusing anything Ford does with the "justification" that, although Tennesseans are hateful bigots, they're also dumb, and can be easily tricked into voting for goodness and light by means of a little fancy-dancin' and smooth talkin'. So whatever crap Ford comes up with is excused as "smooth talking" to trick a bunch of hateful morons.

    I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this. Yes, Tennessee has a lot of racist assholes, but they are not a majority. Their main power is the power of intimidation. As a Democrat, Harold Ford's main job is to be unintimidated. He needs to work on this.

    When he acts weak, he's letting Tennessee's Democrats down. When some of Tennessee's Democrats excuse it, they're just as bad, and enabling Ford's weakness routine.

  •  Is Ford really down by 10 points (0+ / 0-)

    http://www.newschannel5.com/...

    I don't know what to make of these polls sometimes.  I thought Rassmuesen had Ford down by 1 on the 30th

    Don't push me 'cause I'm close to the edge

    by Cat4everrr on Thu Nov 02, 2006 at 08:26:58 AM PST

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