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(From the diaries. Wilburtronic is a friend with strong ties to Wyoming who will be following the Trauner campaign the last dwindling hours of this election -- kos)

"Godspeed. God bless. I believe the Democrats are on the right path." That quote comes from Rock Springs mayor Tim Kaumo. He's a Republican in the most Democratic county in Wyoming - Sweetwater. Kauomo said this during a rally in Rock Springs for Wyo Democrats like Gary Trauner and Governor Dave Freudenthal, amongst others vying for seats in state and county government. The star of the night of course is Trauner.

Trauner is the brightest hope for many I've encountered who are tired of the ineffective and downright peculiar Barbara Cubin. When she's claiming in the debate that she's not the one running a negative campaign, which aired last night and folks could hear the hearty chuckles from the audience, she's throwing stones and filing complaints against constituents who oppose her.

From the Republicans for Trauner's Steve Simonton:

Simonton also says the Cubin campaign had to file 47 amended reports since 2001, and the fact of turning them in to the FEC is consistent with her combative approach to her campaign.

"If she isn't out there threatening to slap someone, then she's filing complaints against them or sending out fliers full of lies and innuendos against her opponent," says Simonton. "I have to tell you this is the most vicious, deceitful campaign I've ever seen.

Judging from the news and people I've talked to things are not getting better for Cubin in the last few days. As previously reported, people are concerned about the Iraq War, budget deficits, curtailing of civil liberties, and access to public lands, especially in Rock Springs where the Red Desert is chock full of coal bed methane.

In the north, which is more reliably Republican, Trauner has made inroads and according to him his chances look good in places like Buffalo and Sheridan. According to Adam Ruff, Trauner campaign's Field Director, walkers in Hot Springs County found support for Trauner in over 60% of the doors they knocked on. If yard signs are any indication Trauner's chances are good in places like Story, where there were 5 Trauner signs on the road into town to 1 Cubin sign, and really you had to drive through town and onto a dead end gravel road to see it.

I ended up in Rock Springs after a 750-mile journey that's taken me through Story, Buffalo, Casper, Cheyenne, Laramie, Rock Springs, and now Evanston and some other stops in between. I visit Wyoming frequently since I have in laws in Story and Gillette and have been a big fan of the state. I could think of no better way to spend the last days of the election season - I already voted by absentee - then to drive around talking to people, promoting Trauner, and seeing him in action, going door-to-door to get his message out. He is one of the most charismatic people I have ever met and you can understand why knocking on over 15,000 doors has been successful.

In Casper, I stopped by Trauner HQ and met staff (Linda Stoval - Campaign Manager, Adam Ruff, Maggie Fowler - Office Manager and so much more) and volunteers. They're a dedicated bunch who feel they're helping Wyoming and democracy. They're filled with a lot of passion and are huge promoters of Trauner's positive message. They're also excited at the prospect of putting a dem from WY in the House and ready for a fight whenever a baseless accusation or outright lie from Cubin's campaign rears its ugly head.

The latest ads from the NRCC are an abomination. The ad claims that because Trauner is from NY that he's not right for Wyoming. But get this... Cubin is a - GASP - a Californian.  And as Trauner pointed out, Cubin is letting her campaign be run by folks in DC. The New York label just isn't sticking since a lot of folks here are also from out of state. I believe that Gov Dave said it best last night that Trauner chose Wyoming to raise his kids and that is what's important, that says a lot about Wyoming.

Anyway, I will begin walking with Trauner today in Evanston He will then head north through Star Valley then over to Pinedale before getting home on Election Day. I plan on sending dispatches about the last hours of Trauner's campaign. I will be in Jackson on Election Night ready to let this allegedly great Democratic wave sweep over the country, even here in the landlocked Cowboy State.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 09:33 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Joe Klein too. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BenGoshi, javelina

    On CNN, he says, re Ted Haggard, "I forgive him."

    WANKER !!

  •  You're doing great work (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KLM, km4, docangel, mcmom

    A heartening diary - thanks so much for writing it, and especially thank you for the hard work you're doing on the ground, which benefits all of us, not just Wyoming residents. It's good to know that so many people are listening to Trauner's message.

    The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind. - Thomas Paine

    by javelina on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 09:43:40 AM PST

  •  wide open spaces (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KLM, km4, Harkov311, docangel, Mr Met

    How great to find you sticking with the Dems through election night in Wyoming. I know kossacks appreciate the effort of door-to-door campaigning by candidates and supporters when the "doors" can be 10-100 miles apart.

    •  Actually - (4+ / 0-)

      The doors tend to be nicely clustered.
      90% of Wyomingites live in 1% of the area.
      There are two general rural models for the U.S.

      The West Virginian model is one of a dispersed population.
      The Wyoming one is of a clustered urban/small town population.

      The doors I'll be hitting today and tomorrow are about 100 feet apart even though the county I live in is 4155 square miles with 7500 people.  For comparison - Rhode Island is 1545 sq miles, Delaware is 1954 sq miles.  So Johnson County is bigger than Rhode Island and Delaware combined!

      As for Trauner support - it is moderate.  I had only one couple express strong support Cubin - but then again, I'm canvassing for Trauner - I know a lot of these folks - And they may just be being polite.  But I don't think so.  In a county that went 80% for Bush in 2004, there is widespread dissatisfaction with Cubin.  If Trauner gets 40% to 45% in Johnson County - Cubin is toast.

      Thanks for the diary.

  •  sweetwater county is a thumb in cheney's eye. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    km4, javelina, Mr Met

    look at the 2004 election maps - sweetwater county voted for kerry. cheney lost his own goddam county. heh!

  •  Reminds me of an article I wrote (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    javelina, Mr Met

    locally which, among other things, criticized a local radio station for an ad campaign mocking its competitor station for having DJs from other places and being owned by a company out of town.  Well, San Diego is FULL of people from somewhere else, and the implication that being raised in San Diego infuses one with some innately better taste in music was pretty stupid.  After I put the article up and it made the rounds in local circles, the ads stopped running pretty quick.  It takes a special sort of arrogance to insult people and expect them to like you for it.

    Did you know Peter King doesn't even have a website?

    by withthelidoff on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 09:46:10 AM PST

  •  I lived in Wyoming... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SanJoseLady, javelina, Harkov311, docangel
    • in Laramie for ten years and had, upon occasion, opportunities to interact with Cubin.  She was considered by everyone I knew to be something of a nut case.  Frankly, I am shocked that she was able to get elected in the first place.  I've been long gone and don't know a thing about Trauner but I surely hope he has a shot.  Wyoming deserves better than Barbara Cubin.

    BTW, thanks for the post; I enjoyed a little trip down memory lane as you mentioned various towns.

  •  Bit OT: where're the Sunday Show discussions? (0+ / 0-)

     Al Rodgers seems to be otherwise occupied.  Are the comments and info just kind of scattered about?

     BenGoshi
    _____________________________________________________

    We're working on many levels here. Ken Kesey

    by BenGoshi on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 09:50:30 AM PST

  •  Majority Watch Vindicated--Gillibrand Leads . . . (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AdmiralNaismith, theran, BMarshall

    Sorry to be taking the liberty of using this as an open thread, but I diaried after midnight last night and can't do another now.

    According to Siena College, in a poll that Sweeney lead by 14 points two weeks ago, Gillibrand now leads 46-43! This lends credence to all those doubtful polls conducted by MW/CD that showed her with a double digit lead.

    Here is the link to the poll. It's a pdf. If someone would please diary, thanks so much, sorry for being OT.

  •  So glad to hear that WY has a (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    docangel

    chance to get back on track with Trauner.  We lived in Gillette, Casper and Laramie for much of the 80's.  It's a wonderful state, but I could never understand how Cheney managed to garner so much support.  (Alan Simpson at least had the ability to talk directly to the people and appear to LIKE his constituents.)  Barbara Cubin appears to be of the Cheney-style of politics, and it's a pity that she's managed to hang on as long as she has.

    I hope for Wyoming's sake that the "transplant" from NY can send Cubin packing.  Thanks for the update!

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~ Albert Einstein

    by seefleur on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 10:10:43 AM PST

  •  California? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AdmiralNaismith

    What a scumbag Cubin is.

    First, she has a communist name. Now we learn that she is from the land of moonbeams and actors. And she's not from just any place in California, she's from Salinas, California. That isn't very far from Pelosi's district and all of those "San Francisco Values."

    I say we string her up.


    And here's some
    GOTV motivation
    for you...

    Click here
    or on the picture
    to see it full size.

    Leave It To Blather
    • A NewsCorpse.com Presentation.

    by KingOneEye on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 10:12:45 AM PST

  •  I'm sure Kos will post about this... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    littlesky, javelina, jhwygirl, docangel

    The Casper Star Tribune endorsed Trauner.

    •  Big, Big News (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jhwygirl, docangel

      The CST is the statewide newspaper.

    •  Awesome news! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kainah, docangel

      I know one WY kossack (kainah) that's dancing right about now.  She's been telling me that there were rumors CST wouldn't endorse anyone, so I know she's very happy.

      •  exciting, but funny... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kainah, docangel

        one of the reasons they endorse is to get rid of Cubin to free up the seat for a more effective Republican...
        "Loyal Wyoming Republicans are understandably reluctant to abandon a GOP incumbent. But their long-term interest lies in sending a stronger Republican to Congress.

        They can't achieve that goal as long as Cubin ties up the seat. Letting Trauner occupy the chair for two years may be a cheap price to create a GOP opportunity in 2008."

    •  has anyone posted about the Cheney demonstration? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      docangel

      100 people turned out to protest Cheney in Laramie yesterday. I've been making phone calls for Trauner for two days and don't have a clue what's been posted here. But we got excellent coverage for two days running from the Laramie Daily Boomerang, a real rarity!! And TV News coverage.

      Rep. Gary Trauner (D-WY) -- Doesn't that look nice? Help make it happen!

      by kainah on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 04:23:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Casper Star-Tribune on Laramie protest (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      docangel

      I guess they figured they were going out on a limb already with their endorsement -- which I had heard they were trying to avoid (i.e., let's just not endorse at all was winning the day earlier) -- because they seemed intentionally to downplay the protest against Cheney. They only mentioned it with a front page picture, close up on a 17-yr old girl with a simple PEACE sign, which they captioned as representing "a few" protestors who turned out. Of course, by no one's usual analysis is 100 in Wyoming "a few" and even the closely shot pic betrayed their words as there was clearly a good number of blurry people around her.

      Rep. Gary Trauner (D-WY) -- Doesn't that look nice? Help make it happen!

      by kainah on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 04:26:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  New York Values -- code word for Jewish! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kainah, theran
    Just as scummy as the ads run in Tennessee.  They are dog whistling to folks that Truaner is Jewish, not Christian.  While I'm not Jewish myself, my surname is "Jewish sounding" so I've found myself in situations where assumptions about my religion were made using such code words.

    Personally I'm proud of my New York ancestors and their values -- they faught for the Union, built the Brooklyn Bridge and faught with Roosevelt in the Spanish American war. And the Jewish neighborhood my mom grew up in (her parents were "mixed" Catholic/Protestant) had the salt of the earth types, really there for my mom's family when her dad died.

    •  interesting (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      docangel

      Actually, Trauner is Jewish which I'll be almost no one in Wyoming knows. I learned it listening to Trauner on Al Franken, not a very big source of news for most Wyomingites. New Yorker is bad enough to lots of Wyomingites, it doesn't even have to be code for anything.

      But there is another curious angle to her repeated reference to his roots. I think about 1/3 of the WY population is transplanted. (And it is probably higher now with the energy boom ... and same day registration so that's a factor that I don't think anyone really knows how it might play.) In any case, every time she dismisses Trauner's ability to serve Wyoming because of this -- and it's been a recurrent them for her for years -- she is also insulting everyone else (like me, born in NY as a matter of fact) who has chosen to make Wyoming their home. Trauner's been here for 16 years, has 2 sons who are native Wyomingites. Lots of people don't care anymore, esp. since Cubin was born in California!

      Rep. Gary Trauner (D-WY) -- Doesn't that look nice? Help make it happen!

      by kainah on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 04:33:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is Trauner Jewish? Is that what NYC means? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theran, docangel

    Is calling attention to his NYC roots an anti-Semitic euphemism?

    •  Yes. n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Fake Canadians are total hosers.

      by theran on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 12:22:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Learned something new today . . . (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theran

        When I saw theran's response that Gary Trauner is Jewish, I thought it was BS. A quick search on Google, though, indicated lots of discussion about the possibility of a jewish congressman from Wyoming. It seems odd that, after following Gary's campaign, and supporting his candidacy since I met him back in January, I would learn something new about him two days before the election.

        Having lived in Wyoming all my life, though, I can't agree that the average Wyomingite would understand the term "New York Liberal" to be synonymous with Jewish.  Believe it or not, people in Wyoming are not generally hostile toward Jews. Most Wyomingites have probably never met one, and I doubt it would affect their decision to vote for Gary if that knowledge were widespread.

        On the other hand, Wyomintites are traditionally hostile toward outsiders from just about anywhere else. Even some of our closest neighbors. When you hear someone from Wyoming talk disgustedly about "Greenies" they are not talking about environmentalists. Greenies are a special form of vermin who swarm over our southern border every Friday night and crowd the campgrounds at our recreation areas. (The term comes from the traditional color of Colorado license plates.)

        In this case, I think the term New York Liberal is just meant to indicate that Gary is an outsider. It is probably the biggest weakness in his campaign, second only to his chosen home of Teton county, which is widely understood by residents in the rest of Wyoming to be full of outsiders.

        •  We'll just have to disagree (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kainah

          Notice that I didn't even need to check whether he was Jewish or not.  I'm not surprised that he is, though.  Then again, I wouldn't have been surprised the other way.  All that matters is that it was plausible.

          You should feel good that the dog whistle doesn't work on you.  But the people who were supposed to hear it got the message.

          Fake Canadians are total hosers.

          by theran on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 02:20:52 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Teaching - (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            theran, docangel

            Last year when I was teaching a section on the meanings of the 1st Amendment and religious freedom, I had a student keep demanding to know whether or not I was Jewish.  I was taken aback, but must say that this was the only time I have encountered such a response.  More frequently I get the "Well - - Christians and Catholics and Jews should all have religious freedom."  Some deep-rooted anti-Catholic feeling.

          •  Will the dog whistle work on my neighbors? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kainah, docangel

            I told my wife about this discussion. Having grown up in areas with larger jewish populations, she immediately made the connection between "New York Liberal" and "Jew". So of, course, we had to check with our relatives, many of whom have lived their entire lives in Wyoming.

            We checked with my parents first, both life-long Republicans from one of Wyoming's strongest Republican Counties.  The first thing the words "New York Liberal" brought to both their minds was Hillary Clinton.  "New York Liberal" also made Mom think of someone giving money to beggars on the street.  Neither of my parents made any connection between NYLs and Jews. So the dog whistle doesn't work with them, which is not surprising, since it didn't work with me either. Both of them, btw, will be voting for Trauner, (even now that they know he is jewish) because they are absolutely sick of Barbara Cubin.

            I'll have to report back after my wife tries the dog whistle on her family.

            If that dog whistle works anywhere, it is more likely to be in Laramie and Cheyenne, where larger portions of the population have moved in from somewhere else. I'll bet that Trauner gets his heaviest support from those two cities, though.

          •  the dog whistle (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            docangel

            You should feel good that the dog whistle doesn't work on you.  But the people who were supposed to hear it got the message.

            Yes, you're right about that. Those who speak in the code always hear it.

            Rep. Gary Trauner (D-WY) -- Doesn't that look nice? Help make it happen!

            by kainah on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 04:42:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  heard Trauner say it on Al Franken (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          docangel

          I didn't know it either but Trauner was on Franken on one of the high Jewish holidays. Franken was joking that all his regular guests couldn't be there so he thought, "Go to Wyoming" and find a non-Jew. And Trauner said, "Well, actually, I am Jewish." Obviously not much of a practicing one.

          And, waterlaw99, I agree with you that, in Wyoming, "New Yorker" really isn't code for Jewish, just being an outsider. I have a theory that prejudice exists in proportion to the percentage of the hated population. In Wyoming, the big prejudices are Hispanics and Indians ... and we don't have enough Jews or blacks to generate a real thriving prejudice -- the kind you elicit with code words -- against them.

          When you hear someone from Wyoming talk disgustedly about "Greenies" they are not talking about environmentalists. Greenies are a special form of vermin who swarm over our southern border every Friday night and crowd the campgrounds at our recreation areas. (The term comes from the traditional color of Colorado license plates.)

          AKA enviros with the distinction being that enviros just gum up the works by sitting back in their spoiled habitats and snarling up all our development with their NEPA, Endangered Species, Clean Water, Clean Air Acts, etc., etc.

          BTW, really enjoyed meeting you the other night at the rally. Obviously, it should have happened years ago. My husband remembered you right away.

          Rep. Gary Trauner (D-WY) -- Doesn't that look nice? Help make it happen!

          by kainah on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 04:41:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  God Bless Wyoming Democrats (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    docangel

    Think of the herculean effort it takes to turn a state this red into blue!  The National party hasn't been willing to touch it for decades, figuring it was too much work for just three measly electoral votes.  I figured it would be a decade or more before we saw any fruit here.

    And yet, here we are, the first election since the 50-state strategy got started, and we have a competitive statewide race already!  And in Montana, Nebraska, Idaho, and the Dakotas too!  We've got a Big Sky revolution brewing, and we have YOU to thank for it!

    The National Dems will thank you too.  Those "measly" three-to-five EV states can add up!

    I'm sick of these motherf%&*ing Republicans in our motherf%&*ing Government!!!

    by AdmiralNaismith on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 11:00:26 AM PST

    •  Pardon (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kainah, Fishgrease, docangel

      But we elected a Dem governor in 2002.

      •  and........ (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        docangel

        The statewide party was also promised help to defeat Cubin in 2004 if we could show life by electing Freudenthal in 2002. But help never arrived until Howard Dean and the 50-state strategy.

        Last national Dem was retired in 1974, I believe. The quite beloved and still fondly recalled Teno Roncalio. (And the Casper Star-Tribune today made a major error by referring to him as Tom. This will just emphasize for people that there are now outsiders running the CST. Quite an unfortunate slip on the day they endorsed Gary.)

        Rep. Gary Trauner (D-WY) -- Doesn't that look nice? Help make it happen!

        by kainah on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 04:46:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Cubin is from California? (0+ / 0-)

    This I didn't know until now...is it common knowledge in Wyoming?

    If Wyoming is like the rest of the West, being a transplant from California is a much bigger strike against you than being from New York.

    •  yes and no (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      docangel

      She was born in California, so technically yes, but her  family goes back 4 generations. She always calls herself a "fifth generation Wyomingite." I didn't learn she was born in CA until this cycle!

      Rep. Gary Trauner (D-WY) -- Doesn't that look nice? Help make it happen!

      by kainah on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 04:47:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, her being born in CA is irrelevant (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kainah, docangel

        Just as Gary being from NY. What's important is what Cubin has done for Wyoming. As Gary states, it's time for a change and give him a chance.

        In my walk with Gary today in Evanston, not one person expressed support for Barbara. Some were indifferent and maybe they were voting for Barbara and just being polite. But more said they already voted or will vote for Gary. This is in a very red district. It was something to see and gives me hope.

    •  Not since... (0+ / 0-)

      As one Wyoming resident expressed himself on the matter:  "Not since she became sexually active."  Volumes.

  •  This is a great right up ... a question (0+ / 0-)

    that should be placed before WY voters:

    • Which Left-Coaster should represent Wyoming in Congress?

    The one who was born out-of-state but has adopted the state's values and ethics?

    Or, the one that bows to outside campaigners and seems to have adopted the "left-coast" concepts of mafioso's trying to own the ports and politicians in terms of "anything goes" dirty politics?

    In any event, having seen the NRCC's ads, it is amusing to hear that Cubin is born in California ...

  •  Cody? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    docangel

    Any word from anybody about what 'the feel' is in -  what I imagine to be an absolute Republican bastion in Wyoming, viz. - Cody?

  •  I'm continuing to forward these WY-AL diaries.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kainah, docangel, suz in seattle

    to my relatives in Casper. My sisters just don't seem to care much about politics but I do know that, like many folks, they enjoy the tabloid type of news that Cubin is generating. Whether that translates into them voting for Gary or not is yet to be seen.

    Hello Dawn and Diane! I do this because I love (and fear for) my country.

    -5.13,-5.63 IMPEACH...IMPEACH...IMPEACH..and contribute to http://www.darcyburner.com/.

    by rickeagle on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 03:09:00 PM PST

  •  I was with Gary and wilburtronic today (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kainah, theran, docangel

    in Evanston. Everyone's got this terrific glow on! Giddy? I dunno. Defeating Cubin is going to be tough. Let me tell you this:

    THAT GARY TRAUNER! WHATTA GUY!

    This guy has got him some interpersonal SKILZ!

    I know it might not mean much, but we're getting two or three definite Trauners for every definite Cubin.... IN EVANSTON!

    We're going to be working down to the wire. As a matter of fact, the sun ain't down yet an I have time for another couple of blocks.

    See ya!

    It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

    by Fishgrease on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 03:57:08 PM PST

    •  I didn't hear one vote for Cubin (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fishgrease, docangel

      As I said up thread somewhere maybe folks were being polite since I was with Gary for most of the walk. Mainly, I heard indifference.

      •  Most of the 'definite Cubin' s were just (0+ / 0-)

        folks I got the impression were solid Republican voters. You know, Bush Cheney 04 bumper stickers on their cars... wouldn't accept the literature... that sort of thing.

        Actual people who said they were voting for Cubin?

        Out of close to 3000, so far, for me, I can remember only four.

        That's opposed to literally hundreds for Trauner.

        Thing is, we'll need every bit of that to beat her.

        It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

        by Fishgrease on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 07:58:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Wow - Great diary and thanks for the words of (0+ / 0-)

    encouragement.  I have still not had any contact with anyone from Trauner's campaign, despite having signed up online to help 3 times now.  I'm guessing that he doesn't have much happening here in Gillette.  Cody used to be major Republican country (I grew up there), but I have lived in Gillette now for 15 years and there is no place redder, I don't think.  Cody has had a fairly large influx of people from California and the east coast and I think that has helped to broaden their minds a bit.  If I had to go by what is going on here, I would say that Cubin would win hands down, so reading this gives me hope!!!!

    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better, it's not." -The Lorax, by Dr. Suess

    by docangel on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 07:46:15 PM PST

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