Daily Kos

Proof that Dems Should NOT Write Off the South!

Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:42:12 AM PDT

This post, along with earlier entries here, here and here, will be part of ongoing analysis we'll be doing at Facing South about the 2006 elections and the South. Stay tuned for more.

The Democratic and progressive South-bashers are at it again.

In the wake of the 2006 mid-terms, a host of Democrats and progressives are once again saying that it's time to write off the South. Throw out Howard Dean's 50-state strategy, they say, especially in those backwards, southwards states. The November elections prove that the North is the Democrats' base, and the Midwest and West are the Democrats' future.

Nonsense.

If anything, the 2006 elections underscore just how critical the South is to Democratic hopes across the country (Virginia Senate, anyone?). They also show that the South is a highly competitive region for Democrats, and that to cut and run would spell disaster for the party's future.

The current guru of the "forget the South" movement is Tom Schaller, the author of Whistling Past Dixie, a book which counsels Democrats to abandon the region in search of easier political pick-ups in the North and Midwest (in contrast to other Dixie doubters, who argue Democrats should look West). It was such beliefs that drove Schaller to make this bold prediction in the pages of In These Times last month ("Where the Seats Are," October 23, 2006):

"Whatever the magnitude of the coming changes, two things are certain: The Democrats are going to gain seats in the 2006 midterms, and those gains will come from outside the South."
Oops. That "certain" prediction, which collided with the reality of key Democratic gains in the South on November 6, may have been off-base - but not as much as Schaller's musings about the U.S. Senate, from the same article:
"None of the five targets [for Democrats in the Senate] are in the South ... Current Rep. Harold Ford (D-Tenn.) is a formidable campaigner who hopes to take the Senate seat being vacated by Majority Leader Bill Frist, and the "macaca" blunder of Sen. George Allen (R-Va.) has breathed new life into party-switcher Jim Webb's Virginia campaign. But these two seats are considered second-tier opportunities."
Right. Tell that to the Democrats, who - fortunately for them -- ignored Schaller's advice and instead made both states competitive by injecting millions of dollars and dispatching top-shelf campaigners like Bill Clinton in the final hours. Tell it also to millions of Democrats nationally, who stayed glued to TVs and blogs for over a day as the Webb race decided the fate of the U.S. Senate.

But back to the predicted "no" gains in the House from the South. At the end of Election Day 2006, Southern Democrats had seized no less than five seats previously held by Republicans in the U.S. House, in Florida, Kentucky, North Carolina and Texas.

The next morning, another three Southern House races - Georgia's 8th and 12th districts, and North Carolina's 8th - were still "too close to call." Since then, Democrat Jim Marshall has been declared the winner in Georgia-08; Democrat John Barrows leads in still-undecided Georgia-12; and Democratic candidate Larry Kissell has successfully asked for a recount in the NC-08 race, where he trails by a tiny 449 vote margin.

On top of that, there were two more Southern races - Virginia's 2nd District and Florida's 13th - that Republicans won by less than two percentage points. In the Florida race, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reports that Democrat Christine Jennings' race with Republican Vern Buchanan was "the second closest in the country" - Jennings lost by 368 votes - and likely would have gone the other way except for voting machine problems that led to 18,000 "undervotes" in Democratic strongholds. A recount is in the works.

In other words: out of the 19 "key races" in the South followed by political analysts, Democrats won eight; will likely win one more (GA-12); should have won FL-13; could still pick up NC-08; and narrowly missed in VA-02.

Despite this 47% victory rate - and that Democrats were competitive in 63% of these key Southern races -- I have yet to see the South-naysayers express doubts about their "certain" analysis.

Of course, any pundit can be wrong -- it's an occupational hazard of the job -- but if there's a defining feature of the "forget the South" crowd, it's their certainty. Pre-elections, In These Times exclaimed that "Anything that argues counter to Tom Schaller's compelling October examination of `Where the Seats Are' can be safely dismissed as non-reality based." Post-November 6, Chris Bowers of the popular MyDD blog giddily declared that "This is the first time in 54 years that the party without a southern majority now has the House majority ... Tom Schaller utterly vindicated."

Such sentiments can be found echoing throughout the blogosphere.

But whose "reality" is "vindicated" by the 2006 election results? In addition to the key House victories for Democrats in the South, consider the following:

* Out of six U.S. Senate races in the South, Democrats and Republicans split four uncompetitive races (Florida and West Virginia for the Dems; Mississippi and Texas for the GOP).

* In the two competitive U.S. Senate races, Democrats won Virginia, and they narrowly missed electing the first African American Senator in the South since Reconstruction - a remarkable achievement given that by mid-October, Republican Bob Corker had outspent Ford by over $3 million, and that was before Corker dumped another $1.35 million of his own money into the race days before the election.

* Democrats gained 26 seats in state legislatures across the South, and Republicans lost 20 in the region. Although no chamber switched hands (the Tennessee senate came closest, Democrats missing by one race), Democrats strengthened their position in eight Southern states. The Republicans only did that in one state, Alabama, where Democrats still control the legislature.

* Out of seven governor's races in the South, Democrats were able to flip control to their party in Arkansas, something Republicans didn't achieve in the region. Weak candidates doomed Democratic challengers to GOP incumbents in Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina, and a bizarre four-way field didn't help Democrats in Texas. But the Democrats held on to the governor's mansion in Tennessee, and gave the well-financed campaign of Charlie Crist a run for its money in Florida.

But perhaps even more importantly, exit polls in the region reveal that the South - far from being a conservative monolith - is deeply contested political territory. Here are results from CNN's exit polls of those voting in House races:

* The race divide. 62% of Southern whites voted Republican, while 87% of African-Americans, 57% of Latinos, and 52% of "others" voted Democrat. This is ominous for Republicans, given that the four states nationally with the fastest-growing Latino population are in the South, and Georgia and Mississippi are on the brink of joining Texas as so-called "majority minority" states.

* Young Southerners. In 2006, they preferred Democrats 51% to 48%.

* Class war. 55% of Southerners making under $50,000 a year - 40% of those polled - voted Democrat. The 13% of those polled in a union household favored Democrats 56% to 44%.

* Conflicting faiths. Southern Protestants -- 70% of those polled - voted Republican by a 58% to 41% margin, but all other faith groups favored Democrats. More than one out of four Southern white evangelicals (27%) - perceived as the hardened core of the Republican Party - voted for Democrats in 2006.

* Gender and marriage. Surprisingly, Southern married women were the staunchest GOP supporters in 2006, with only 40% voting for Democrats (41% of married men did). By contrast, 60% of Southern unmarried men, and 63% of unmarried women, favored Democrats in 2006.

Two pictures emerge from this and other data. One is that the Republican Party is increasingly the party not of "the South" in general, as some pundits claim, but older, wealthy and white Southern voters - a base that puts the GOP on the wrong side of all the key demographic trends unfolding in the South.

The second is that the South is a deeply divided region - red, blue and purple - and the question before Democrats isn't whether to cut and run, but how to capitalize on constituencies and trends that clearly work in their favor.

There are many other reasons for the Democratic Party not to write off the South. For any major party to pull up stakes in the fastest-growing region in the country is clearly a bid for political suicide.

It would also put Democrats at odds with their self-image and raison d'etre. For Democrats to turn their backs on a region that half of all African-Americans and a growing number of Latinos and Asian-Americans call home, a place devastated by Hurricane Katrina, plant closings, poverty, and other indignities - in short, for "progressives" to give up on the very place where they could argue they are needed most - would rightfully be viewed as a historic retreat from the party's commitment to justice for all.

But most of all, November 7 proved that the "forget the South" strategy is a colossal mistake - if only because the elections revealed that, if they try, Democrats in the South can win.

Tags: South, 2006 Elections, Institute for Southern Studies, Tom Schaller (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 176 comments

  •  The lesson won't be forgotten (6+ / 0-)

    In 2008, we head into the Heartland! 50 states! B'yaaaauuuggghhh!

  •  take a peek (4+ / 0-)

    at my latest diary:
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    showing how a democrat in TN-01 with almost no money and no name gained 8% on the republians in this year's open seat electoin as compared to a better fiananced democrat in the last open seat election in 1996.

    Freedom isn't Free, but we shouldn't get ripped off for it either.

    by FleetAdmiralJ on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:45:16 AM PDT

    •  Those are great examples (7+ / 0-)

      And they beg the question: what could have been, or could be, accomplished with more resources and attention for these races?

      Blogging for a Progressive South // www.southernstudies.org/facingsouth

      by ProgressiveSouth on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:58:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Northerners just don't understand (7+ / 0-)

        how utterly the South has been abandoned in Presidential years and just how hard the GOP has worked to keep it.  Even a little money for ads, yard signs, or surrogate speaker appearances would help a lot.

        Why is this important?  When the national Party sends the message loud and clear that some states aren't relevant, it has a chilling and demoralizing effect down the ballot.  Also, it leads to candidates like Harold Ford (and Phil Bredesen before him) distancing themselves from the Dem Party brand name as much as possible.

        Hell, Bredesen made it into a fine art form in 2004, mocking Democratic volunteers in the press for working for John Kerry.  He openly opposes labor and disparages folks opposed to his health care "reform" (removing benefits for hundreds of thousands of people on the state health plan).  I'd have to hazard that Dems gave up on the region years ago and now they're reaping what they sowed.

        Bob Corker still sucks. Now more than ever.

        by Eleanor A on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:57:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Of Course Democrats Can Take Back The South (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rogun, peraspera, wader, Mensor, GoldnI, sccs

    Arkansas is a great example, it is every bit the Southern state as any other, but we have 2 Senators and 3 Representatives there.  Only one lone Republican in their delegation!  Democrats win when standing on principle, not when transparently trying to triangulate on hot button issues.  Unfortunately, many areas do require a Heath Shuler to won, and we should not hesitate to put such candidates up, since they are with us on the core Democratic issues of health care and fairness.

    Strength and wisdom are not conflicting values--they go hand in hand. - Bill Clinton

    by skidrow on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:47:22 AM PDT

  •  dump Sessions in 08 (7+ / 0-)

    There's a new Alabama Kog working to show Jeff Sessions the door in 2008.

    ```
    peace

    Basketball Diary - Will Obama Be the First Hoopster in the WhiteHouse?

    by peace voter on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:50:58 AM PDT

  •  Jesus, what is the deal with (8+ / 0-)

    the constant pissing on the South lately?

    Can we just focus on pissing on the Repubs instead?

    How do you have a 50 state strategy if you only run in 37 states?

    Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow

    by Pager on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:51:43 AM PDT

    •  I think partly (8+ / 0-)

      because someone like Ford lost, people seemed to split into three camps about it:

      1. Ford was a DLC Dino and thus was a bad candidate and should have run a more populist campaign
      1. Ford and his campaign was fine. it was Tennessee and it's population (and by extension, the rest of the south) who are the problem and are a lost cause until they change, and
      1. There were other factors at play that cost Ford the election (the fact that it was an open seat and Corker had no obvious relation to Bush, etc.)

      Freedom isn't Free, but we shouldn't get ripped off for it either.

      by FleetAdmiralJ on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:55:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it's also latent bigotry (12+ / 0-)

        because a lot of the comments have been along the line of "Texas sucks! I've heard!" and "I've heard people in Mississippi refer to 'Jesus' every tenth word!"  A lot of the hostility seems to come from people who have never even been here, just operating off of stereotypes.  Like they just need someone to sneer about.

        Babe, you're just a wave, you're not the water. --Jimmie Dale Gilmore

        by rocketito on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:19:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Another option (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        rogun

        I don't want to start a flame war or to offend anyone, but is it possible that we're not always picking good candidates? Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of our '06  candidates, but one thing we need to remember is that the big tent idea works in the context of the fifty state strategy. Having experience in Kansas and Arizona, I know that the frames voters use to evaluate candidates differs in ways that aren't always readily apparent to outsiders, and we may be running into unseen frames with the south. That's not to say racism and other factors weren't issues, but just that each of us needs to consider how our own perspectives, especially regionally, influences our evaluation of candidates.

        "Its' got to be done and done quickly, so let's get it done." - General Henry 'Hap' Arnold

        by afguy08 on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:39:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think that that is a huge possibility (0+ / 0-)

          In Alabama, for example, Lucy Baxley ran a terrible campaign  and still only lost to a popular incumbent by only 8% (she was down by double digits in polls the last week of the campaign).  A candidate who connected to voters, defined themselves before the attack ads come out, and presented themselves as 1)having a coherent plan and 2) not being a huge tool could probably have taken the election

    •  The pissing on the South has been ongoing (7+ / 0-)

      since I joined dKos in the fall of 2004. It's not new. If anything, it's less now than before. But doing it at all is divisive and a mistake for Democrats.

    •  Look at what kind of politicians you're producing (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      GayHillbilly

      If Harold Ford is the best the deep south can come up with then you wonder why we're "pissing on the South"?  

      Some of you guys are way too proud of your region.  It's like you don't want to admit you have problems.  The current Southern outlook basically stands in complete contrast to everything we're fighting for (anti-civil rights, excessive religionism, etc).  I'm sure there are good people on the ground, but that is the face you're presenting to the rest of the country.  

      Clearly we're going to keep running in the South, but we're running there just as much to change it as to win.  We're not going to give up on it, but right now it doesn't look too promising, and that's precisely why the Republicans have a stranglehold on it.  

      Don't like XOM and OPEC? What have YOU done to reduce your oil consumption? Hot air does NOT constitute a renewable resource!

      by Asak on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 07:10:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Uh, I live in Colorado (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Ahianne, red bed head

        and we're producing some pretty fucking good representatives, thanks for asking.

        I just don't happen to support the theory that you walk away from of a region because it isn't voting the way you like. I don't have to live in the South to recognize that theory is a politically naive philosophy that gets our party absolutely nowhere.

        We voted against a civil union amendment and voted for a gay marriage amendment in Colorado, much to the chagrin of most liberals I know. Should we now give up on Colorado? We have James Dobson and Ted Haggard here (speaking of excessive religionism)--should we now give up on Colorado?

        With your attitude, Colorado and Montana would still be deep red states. With the 50 state strategy and also with hard work over the last 6 years from progressives, Colorado has gone blue (Governor and legislature are both Dem controlled, we have a Dem Senator and 4 out of 7 of our Congressional Reps are Dems) and Montana has a Dem governor and just helped us win back the Senate.

        My guess is if you have to say "Harold Ford is the best the deep south can come up with" you don't know much about the south.

        Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you or your blanket generalizations more, if I actually made an attempt.

        Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow

        by Pager on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 08:23:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Will these naysayers (8+ / 0-)

    ever pull their heads out of their asses?!  I'll concede that Democrats face better odds in the other parts of the country, but it's not impossible to make headway in the South.  May I point out that North Carolina has a Democratic Governor, a Democratic State House and State Senate, and has chipped away at Congressional districts?  And, please, forget the GOPer meme that these Democrats are "conservative."  They are no more and no less conservative than other Democrats.  A revolution has begun, and it will only be stopped by the naysayers winning the day.

    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." - William Pitt

    by blueinnc on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:54:36 AM PDT

    •  heck look at Tennessee (5+ / 0-)

      Democratic House, only 1 in the Senate, dem governor, 54 dem congressional delagation, a black democrat comes within 3% of winning a senate seat

      Freedom isn't Free, but we shouldn't get ripped off for it either.

      by FleetAdmiralJ on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:56:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The fact is (6+ / 0-)

      that MOST Southern states are competitive along party lines. One has to really narrow the terms of discussion -- say, presidential votes in the last decade -- to find ANY evidence of total GOP dominance.

      Most of the South is politically purple, and elections reflect that.

      Blogging for a Progressive South // www.southernstudies.org/facingsouth

      by ProgressiveSouth on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:02:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  one of my arguments (5+ / 0-)

        after 2004 against those saying to go west was essentially that, not only did the South offer for house seats and electoral votes than the west, but that the south, by and large, had much closer vote margins between bush and kerry than the west did.

        I mean, it completely baffled me that they'd give up on the south where Bush won by 20 or 25% and head West where he won by 30 or 40%.

        That's not to say we shouldn't try in the west too, but I still see the south as, overall, a better place to pick up seats and EVs.

        Freedom isn't Free, but we shouldn't get ripped off for it either.

        by FleetAdmiralJ on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:05:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah but Southern Democrats are... (0+ / 0-)

        Northeastern or Western Republicans.  So it's competitive in terms of parties, but not really in terms of ideology.  

        Don't like XOM and OPEC? What have YOU done to reduce your oil consumption? Hot air does NOT constitute a renewable resource!

        by Asak on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 07:12:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Northeastern or COASTAL Western Repugs (0+ / 0-)

          They're not really that much different than anywhere else in between. The ideology is different and that's why Clinton and Carter won, while Dukakis and Kerry lost (I chalk up Gore and Mondale to different reasons.)

          But it's not really the ideology that's the difference here; the real difference is the formulation of the Southern message, which Northeastern liberals are unable to successfully create. What I'd be interested in seeing is a Democratic candidate from the West, because Westerners seem more capable of creating a successful message to the South. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there are many powerful Democrats in the West, other then in New Mexico.

          Democrats -- Progress for the Working Class

          by rogun on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:34:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Just to be clear (7+ / 0-)

    There are good reasons for Democrats to think through their strategy. Resources and energy aren't unlimited,  so decisions have to be made.

    I also respect much of the analysis by Tom Schaller and others about why the South poses challenges for Democrats.

    But I think it's equally clear that the suggestion that the South as a region is no longer essential to a major party's political strategy in this country, especially the South, doesn't fit the criteria of a good strategic decision.

    Blogging for a Progressive South // www.southernstudies.org/facingsouth

    by ProgressiveSouth on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 09:55:33 AM PDT

    •  I think you're making an error here (4+ / 0-)

      In terms of national electoral strategy, I think Shaller has a point. Democrats are far more likely in 2008 to win by going after the West than the South. In Presidential politics, the deep south is as solid as it ever was. Yes, we should actively contest southern states, but in a world with limited resources, we ought to go hard after the places we're most likely to make gains. Look, my daughter lives in Mississippi, and I'd love nothing better than for her home to become more progressive, but the chances of any remotely progressive Democrat winning more than 45% of the vote in a presidential election down there is slim and none, and Slim just left town.

      I want to die like my grandfather, peacefully in my sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

      by incertus on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:05:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  see my note above (4+ / 0-)

        the west went for Bush by much larger percentages than the south did

        Freedom isn't Free, but we shouldn't get ripped off for it either.

        by FleetAdmiralJ on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:06:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And how fiercely (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          sccs, TheGardener

          did Kerry really contest those states? He went for the bare minimum strategy--a strategy I hated at the time and hate more now. He gambled everything on a small number of states and conceded not only the south, but a large chunk of the west as well. But where did we win more seats in this election--the south or the west?

          I want to die like my grandfather, peacefully in my sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

          by incertus on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:10:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  actually (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            GoldnI, sccs

            it may be about equal

            in the west we won the Montana senate seat and, what, a couple house races in Arizona maybe? In the South we picked up the Virginia senate seat and a NC seat and a couple of FL seats if not a couple more.

            Freedom isn't Free, but we shouldn't get ripped off for it either.

            by FleetAdmiralJ on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:12:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  We didn't even lose any seats in TN (3+ / 0-)

              For all the bashing that goes on vis a vis Ford.  We held our Dem Governorship, kept TN-09 (Ford's open seat), and stayed about the same in the Legislature (Dem House control, 1-seat-margin GOP control in the Senate).  Our Dem members of Congress won by huge margins (the majority of them are Dem - 5 to 4).

              Bob Corker still sucks. Now more than ever.

              by Eleanor A on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:23:31 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Some questions (9+ / 0-)

        First, I think it's important to be clear about what we're debating here. Schaller in his In These Times essay was dismissing the possibilities of ANY House or Senate pickups in 2006, which was clearly wrong.

        What you're focusing on is Electoral College decisions for President in 2008, which is fine. But we need to realize how much we're narrowing the discussion about "should Democrats be in the South."

        So, in terms of president, some thoughts:

        (1) Can Democrats narrowly focus on a strategy in which they narrow the terrain of states so narrowly that they MUST win every one of those states to win the election?

        (2) By writing off the South in 2008, how does that impact the party's LONG-TERM chances in the region, and allows the GOP to consolidate its power there?

        (3) If the impact of #2 is negative, does that make sense given that (a) the South is the fastest-growing region in the country; (b) Southern states have the fastest-growing Latino population in the country, a prime Democratic constituency; and © other trends that work in Democrats' interests?

        (4) The Democrats just won control of Congress, thanks to victories like Virginia Senate. How will "writing off the South" for a presidential race hurt down-ticket races crucial for Democrats to keep a Congressional majority?

        I have more questions, but I'll stop there for now.

        Blogging for a Progressive South // www.southernstudies.org/facingsouth

        by ProgressiveSouth on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:12:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let me be clear here (0+ / 0-)

          because I keep seeing this statement "writing off the south." Schaller may have used it--I didn't read it, but he may have--but I'm not. From my very first comment in this thread, I've said that we need to contest seats in the south at every opportunity, and do so vigorously. But let's not be surprised if progressives, either of the social or of the economic variety don't do well here, outside of metropolitan enclaves of liberalism.

          FleetAdmiralJ mentioned the Florida congressional pickups as evidence that we can do well in the south. Well, I live one district over from Klein's--I work in his district as a matter of fact--and this is no socially conservative area. It's important to remember that we're not talking about a monolithic south here. But there's a hell of a lot more districts that resemble south Georgia than resemble San Francisco.

          I want to die like my grandfather, peacefully in my sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

          by incertus on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:19:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  And did I use the word (0+ / 0-)

          "narrowly" enough times in point 1 (smile).

          Blogging for a Progressive South // www.southernstudies.org/facingsouth

          by ProgressiveSouth on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:39:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Don't write off Mississippi (8+ / 0-)

        We're close to 40% minority and probably at least 15% of the whites are liberal. It just that Dems keep running these conservative white guys. You want us to get excited about that? Yawn! Give us a progressive (especially economic) black, and we'll show you a Democratic victory.

  •  Well said (6+ / 0-)

    I never thought I'd see New Hampshire elect 2 D congresscritters.  That's the beauty of the 50-state strategy:  any state can step forward and give us a pleasant surprise.  Keep fighting the good fight.

  •  What Schaller said (0+ / 0-)

    at least, the part that I read, was that the South was the least fertile ground for Democrats right now, and speaking as a progressive southerner, I have to agree with him. Certainly we should continue to contest elections and do so vigorously, but let's face facts here--the south is less fertile ground for progressive causes than elsewhere in the country, because it's so overwhelmingly evangelical and socially conservative, outside of some notable southern metropolitan enclaves.

    I want to die like my grandfather, peacefully in my sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    by incertus on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:01:33 AM PDT

    •  Two sides (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Ahianne, quaoar, GoldnI, sccs

      I respect much of Schaller's analysis, but it depends on which article you're reading. The In These Times was the "strongly anti-South" Schaller, which dismissed ANY prospects for victories in the South (which, fortunately for Democrats, wasn't true).

      The "somewhat anti-South" Schaller argues, as you say, that it's not that the South isn't winnable, just that other areas are MORE so.

      The problem with that position is (1) the South is the fastest-growing region in the country, so any short-term writing-off of the South will have long-term consequences, and (2) it depends on which "South" you're talking about.

      Blogging for a Progressive South // www.southernstudies.org/facingsouth

      by ProgressiveSouth on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:06:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No lesson to learn. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    libertyisliberal

    WE already knew this.

    It's not South v. North, it's rural v. urban; has been for some time.

    Anybody that bothered to look at a voting map would know that.

    •  I agree that (6+ / 0-)

      that is one of the major divides.

      An interesting twist: it's also about whether people PERCEIVE themselves as "rural" or "urban." Some recent research suggests that even folks in the suburbs/exurbs view themselves as "rural," although it's more the world of gated communities than family farms.

      Blogging for a Progressive South // www.southernstudies.org/facingsouth

      by ProgressiveSouth on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:16:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yes, but family farms are extinct... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Eleanor A

        that's part of it.

        i'm from a rural area, and people need to realize that our rural areas aren't comprised of family farms anymore... they're suburbs and wal marts. farming areas are owned by fewer and fewer big owners.

        rural voters are found in cheap housing developments or in suburban mcmanshions out on their own spread of land.

        that's what we mean when we say rural these days... exurban... slightly beyond suburban... or even suburban really, in many places.

        these are rural areas... and thus the maps we see.

        •  Exactly (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          rogun, palachia, Blue Sky CoOp

          The perception of what's rural/urban doesn't match up with what is really happening in those communities.

          To take another example, some political strategists think that "rural" areas are ALL wealthy exurbs. In reality, rural poverty in the South is skyrocketing, as many of the manufacturing industries that moved to rural areas shut down.

          If any party could speak to the pain of these people, one would think it would be Democrats.

          Blogging for a Progressive South // www.southernstudies.org/facingsouth

          by ProgressiveSouth on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:30:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sadly, (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Eleanor A

            when people have been through so much pain, they often grasp on to very black and white concepts to ease their minds.

            One of the things that's happened is that rural people all over our country have adopted Southern values as a kind of lifesaver to hang onto.

            Rural whites are resentful, more than anything. They don't believe they deserve their fate in this rich country. And they're right. They're just blaming the wrong people. They should be blaming the top 1% of 1% of earners.

            But they resort to racism instead.

            "It's the Mexican's fault. It's the blacks killing people and using drugs. We're Christian and have the right morals. It's the Jews keeping us down."

            Poverty is a HUGE problem and it's a problem we saw in the South and did nothing about. Now that problem, that virus, has spread all over the country... and that's what we see today.

            Education. Schools. Opportunity.

            Without those things, rural folk will never vote Democratic in enough numbers for our majority to be safe... because they simply won't be enlightened enough to vote for their own best interests... they'll continue to default to racism and hate... simply because their lives are so difficult, and they have nothing else.

            That's how white poverty and racism go hand in hand in America and how they always have.

          •  Heh (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Ahianne, GoldnI

            You really ought to drive through Cadiz, KY - population 5000 - sometime.  There are some Dems running strongly in the region, and it's definitely a message that would resonate if handled properly.  (I saw several "Had Enough?  Vote Dem" signs there yesterday, a concept that would have been unthinkable a few years ago.)

            Bob Corker still sucks. Now more than ever.

            by Eleanor A on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:02:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I'm sure that will be news (0+ / 0-)

          to all the family farmers hereabouts who comprise something like 75% of the land in this county.

    •  The half of my "rural" county (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, Blue Sky CoOp

      ..that is in OH-2 voted about 2/1 for Vic Wulsin. Rural areas tend to be somewhat more socially conservative than urban areas, but there's also a strong populist streak and sense of community. Rural Appalachian OH-6, which runs from the other half of Scioto County to Youngstown, sent Democrat Charle Wilson to Congress.

      Now supporting Obama. Will vote for HRC if she's nominated. Still busting trolls.

      by Ahianne on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:33:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  anecdotes do not explain away (0+ / 0-)

        voting maps.

        and one state/community isn't necessarily representative of rural voting patterns as a whole.

        The voting patterns are all there in blue and red for anyone to see if and when they care to do so.

  •  One more time, (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rogun, GayHillbilly, rocketito, Mensor

     If Dems run strong populists in the south they can win. period. We have to frame the debate in this region. Move away from social issues and focus on economics. we can absolutely do this now that we have gained a modicum of power in Washington. The Repubs are backed into  a corner in the south, and it is here that the dems can put a stake through the heart of the neocons.

    I was a republican until they lost their minds. -Charles Barkley

    by TheGardener on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:15:19 AM PDT

    •  Today's Op Ed by Jim Webb (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      rogun, Mensor, TheGardener

      proves the point. (See front page of Kos)

      Blogging for a Progressive South // www.southernstudies.org/facingsouth

      by ProgressiveSouth on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:16:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, but (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      TN yellow dog

      (and this is important, I think...)  We also have to do something about the constant demonization of Democrats and "liberals" in the press and on talk radio in the South.

      Many people posit that Ford lost because his tack to the right wasn't believable. And I have to think, reading many comments on this blog, that folks in other states are going to fight us like hell unless we insist on committing to a platform of liberal social issues.  Even if those issues are going to result in electoral death for us.  

      (I don't think they're doing it to be difficult.  They just don't understand the dynamics of ignorance and religion going hand in hand down here to beat down progressive issues.)

      Bob Corker still sucks. Now more than ever.

      by Eleanor A on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:06:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not just social issues (in fact, I'd wager (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        rogun, GayHillbilly

        social issues are the lesser concern) It's party loyalty, economic progressiveness, and a respect for the basic ideals of this country (all of which, Ford was lacking).

        Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

        by tigercourse on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:12:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  OK, but.... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    New Deal democrat

    The flip side is to say that the Republicans are now only a regional party: the deep South and a vertical strip of plains states. Yes, we should contest them there, but for the immediate future the prime Democratic growth is in areas that have been safely Republican in recent decades: the midwest, Rockies, and southwest.

    •  republicans (0+ / 0-)

      still hold on to most of the house and senate seats in the west

      Freedom isn't Free, but we shouldn't get ripped off for it either.

      by FleetAdmiralJ on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:18:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not By My Math - - (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        rogun

        13 Western States
        CA, OR, WA, AK, HA, AZ, NM, CO, UT, NV, ID, WY, MT

        13 Southern States
        VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, KY, MS, LA, AR, OK, TX

        West - Senate - 12D / 14R; House 57D / 41R
        South - Senate - 5D / 21R; House 56D / 86R

        So the totals are:

        West - 69D to 55R
        South - 61D to 107R

        <<<>>>

        Hey - I'n not trying to diss the South, I'd just like the Southern Kossacks out there to acknowledge that the West actually has given the Democratic Party greater support over the past 20 years and has received very little attention back from the party.  I'm not saying that the South should be abandoned, but that it is high time to recognize the real impact that the West has.

        •  Um... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          rogun

          Clearly, you're correct on the Congressional level (damn that Texas! ;), but the problem is, the picture isn't nearly so clear at the state level.  For the states you mentioned, there are more Democratic state Senate members (272 to 216), and nearly twice as many Democratic state House members (a whopping 777 to 443.)  There are 7 Dem Governors in the West, but there are 6 i