Daily Kos

Scientist Claims Nuclear Fusion Breakthrough

Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:14:39 PM PDT


Dr. Robert Bussard, one of the founders of the Department of Energy's fusion program in the '70s, claims to have come across a breakthrough in Nuclear Fusion using Inertial Electrostatic Confinement. In a proposal to Google for funding, he lays out the how & why....


Should Google Go Nuclear?


Nuclear physics isn't exactly my area of expertise, so I was wondering what people in the know think?

Bussard, who is the same man responsible for coming up with the Bussard Ramjet, claims the current investment into fusion reactors that use magnetic confinement to achieve Fusion with a Tokamak (such as in the international project called ITER) has fundamental flaws, and are driven largely by politics & greed....

We know fusion works, go outside look up in the night sky, billions of working fusion reactors... none of them toroidal.

More specifically, Bussard has said....

The DoE committment to very large fusion concepts (the giant magnetic tokamak) ensures only the need for very large budgets; and that is what the program has been about for the past 15 years - a defense-of-budget program - not a fusion-achievement program. As one of three people who created this program in the early 1970's (when I was an Asst. Dir. of the AEC's Controlled Thermonuclear Reaction Division) I know this to be true; we raised the budget in order to take 20% off the top of the larger funding, to try all of the hopeful new things that the mainline labs would not try.

Each of us left soon thereafter, and the second generation management thought the big program was real; it was not. Ever since then, the ERDA/DoE has rolled Congress to increase and/or continue big-budget support.


According to Bussard, he & his team have been operating under a grant from the United States Navy for the last decade, in which time their work has been embargoed. He also claims the machine they created produced several orders of magnitude higher fusion power than earlier electrostatic confinement devices. It did so repeatably during several runs until it blew up due to mechanical stress degradation.

Bussard's device seems to be something of a variant of the Farnsworth-Hirsch Fusor. Originally conceived by Philo Farnsworth (the inventor of television), it uses a more convenient fuel (Boron-11) than the Tokamak reactors, requires no radioactive tritium, and produces no neutrons in the primary reaction....

This system consists largely of two concentric spherical electrical grids inside a vacuum chamber into which a small amount of fusion fuel is introduced. Voltage across the grids causes the fuel to ionize around them, and once ionized (and thus charged) it is accelerated towards the center of the chamber due to the voltage. This constant "inrush" of fuel ions keeps the hot plasma confined in the center of the system. Fusors can also use ion guns rather than electric grids.

The problem with the device when it comes to nuclear fusion is "pollution of the plasma area due to collisions on the grids which spray high-mass ions into the reaction chamber and cool the fuel." This makes getting to "break-even" in energy almost impossible.


From what I could understand from Bussard's presentation, while his machine is not exactly the same as the original Fusor, his team rethought the dimensions of the grid & changed it to a polyhedral with magnetic shielding, which made the system more efficient....

First, what we have achieved in our rather unexpectedly good tests of last November 9 and 10th was an output of DD fusion at about 10 kV, at B fields of 1300 G, in a 30 cam dia device (WB-6) run in a pulsed mode from big capacitors, with a fusion rate of about 1E9 sec. This works our to be about 100,000 X higher than the data of HirschFarnsworth at similar well depth and drive conditions. The test duration was only about 0.4 masec, but since the electron lifetime is ca 0.1 microsec this is steady-state to the plasma particles. We had neither the money, nor the cooling, nor the power supplies, nor the controls to run this small device steady-state, which is what we need to do, and what requires us to build the full-scale device.

This was a direct result of discovering something during late Spring/ early summer tests of WB-5, which was a closed boc machine, like the early HEPS of 1989. What we discovered was - in hindsight - elementary; it was that indeed God is in the details, and the detail of particular importance is that no metal surface penetrated by B fields must occupy more than about 10E-4 to 10E-5 of the total surface available to the recirculating electrons. If this dead fraction is larger, there is NO hope of net power from any such machine. AND, it is essential that the device be recirculating, i.e. that the electrons can circulate out and back through the cusps all over the machine. Of course, this is obvious; but in 15 years no one saw it, not Hirsch, not our consultants not our opponents, not our staff, and not me.

It is consistent with the need for electrons to recirculate about 100,000 times before being lost to collisions with structure, to yield net power.

Please remember that our device has the property that the electron flow and losses are decoupled from the ion flow and fusion generation. Power balance depends on suppresssion of the electron losses, which are derived from the energetic electron injection that forms the gridless negative potential well that traps the ions.

When we figured this thing out, in summer 2005, we quickly designed and quickly built WB-6, using only conformal (with the B fields produced) coil cans, so that no B field uniquely penetrated the cans, and then placed the coils in a special array so that no corners touched (this latter is a long topic having to do with local B fields, and loss of WiffleBall trapping due to line cusp effects at the corners, etc, etc, and is the baisis of our final patents on this thing). It IS the details that make or break the device. And this particular set of details absolutely dominates the performance.

If they were able to get a power surplus out of this kind of system, it could make "small" fusion power plants possible. Maybe like Mr. Fusion type small....



Today it was reported that a 17-year-old kid in Michigan was able to put together a Fusor Nuclear Fusion reactor in his basement....

He's on the cross country and track teams at Stoney Creek High School in Rochester Hills. He's a good-looking, clean-cut 17-year-old with a 3.75 grade point average, and he has his eyes fixed on the next big step: college.

But to his friends, Thiago is known as "the mad scientist."

In the basement of his parents' Oakland Township home, tucked away in an area most aren't privy to see, Thiago is exhausting his love of physics on a project that has taken him more than two years and 1,000 hours to research and build -- a large, intricate machine that , on a small scale, creates nuclear fusion.

Someone who wears a tin-foil hat would argue that if such a system could be a viable power source, there would be a lot of business interests that would be harmed by it.

So should Google invest in Nuclear Fusion, or is this snake oil?

Tags: Science, Fusion, Robert Bussard, alternative energy (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 70 comments

  •  One Other Thing About Bussard... (17+ / 0-)


    "Star Trek" has named parts of the Enterprise after him. The circular red bulbs at the end of the nacelles are called "Bussard Collectors".

  •  There is a simple way to deal with such claims (11+ / 0-)

    see how much is being published in peer-reviewed journals on this. The ultimate test of any idea is whether you can get other scientists interested in it. And my ears prick up when I hear that an idea did not get support because of the venality of other scientists. That is not my experience in research, or really supported vey much by historical evidence. Good new ideas tend to attract funding. So, I basically smell a rat.

    Ambition is when you follow your dreams. Insanity is when they follow you.

    by Batfish on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:20:23 PM PDT

    •  I don't think he was (4+ / 0-)

      talking about the venality of other scientists, rather that certain research regimens persist even though they haven't made any serious progress (sometimes it is more important to protect the budget -- and research jobs, which are hard to come by if your physicist).

      What is being promised by Bussard is serveral degrees more exciting than the current fusion-paradigm. If he is reaching 'break-even' either engineering or financial, that would be a substantial improvement on the current generation of tokamaks.

      The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream.

      by Whimper Bang on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:34:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not venality, but a stampede down the wrong path (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Wee Mama, Wreck Smurfy

        In college organic chemistry in the 1960's the professor told a story about the crash program to develop synthetic rubber in the U.S.  The most obvious approach is to look for a polymerization reaction using free radicals, but it seemed the cleaner they got the conditions for such a reaction, the less the yield of latex.  Finally somebody thought to try a reaction that used carbon ions (negative carbanions I think, but it may have been positive carbonium ions).  An ion-based polymerization worked.  

        Another example, from biology:  From the early 1940's until Watson & Crick published the structure of DNA, most biologists thought genetic information must be carried in proteins, because they were the only big molecules known to be complex enough to have information somehow coded into them.  DNA was thought to have some simple, repeating structure (like collagen, for example) and was overlooked.  

        Failing to 'think outsde the box' isn't venal, but it can keep you from seeing something right under your nose.

        We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

        by david78209 on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 04:39:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly - the Scientific Community adjudicates (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      taylormattd, Batfish, tzt, esquimaux

      While research often is expensive and requires grants, review of a paper or findings is done virtually free of charge.  The process of peer-review has served science very well.  If there is merit to any and all claims - publish them and let the ENTIRE scientific community have at them.  

      The fusion reactions you see up there in the stars are working, that's true... they are burning at a balmy 16 million degrees kelvin in some cases.  

      Fusion is this holy grail technology.  We spend bzillions on it and we seem to inch painfully closer with no real payday out there.  

      Meanwhile the product of fusion (solar energy) exists and works.  A modest amount spent on public policy around solar energy could obviate the need for Fusion energy.  

      •  One thing that those stars have that we do not... (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        bronte17, Batfish, esquimaux

        is several billions of newtons of gravitational force that arise out of the fact that the mass of the sun is approximately 2 x 10 to the 30th kg.

        1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms is a LOT of pounds per square inch.

        Trying to mimic that initial condition using magnetic fields, electrostatic fields and etc is pretty fucking difficult.

        The only way to ensure a free press is to own one

        by RedDan on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 04:16:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  A lot of scientists think it is a conservative (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Rimjob

        process and I think that's right.  It is very hard to get radical ideas published, and some times they are very good ideas.  

        I have a colleague who said that he had started to watch the cognitive revolution in the 60's and wanted to work there, rather than train rats in the behaviorist mode.  He said his adviser said to him firmly:  YOu want a PhD and a job, train rats.  That's the kind of conservatism that journals can enact.

        "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." Plato

        by JPete on Thu Nov 23, 2006 at 07:37:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I agree, but at the same time (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Rimjob

      journals can be very hostile to very new ideas.  E.g., I had an idea judged by a journal to be too implausible to publish; it now is a standard, recognized view.  This wasn't very important research, actually, but a number of papers that formed the basis of nobel prizes were rejected (I've totally forgotten the details of those).  

      So I'd also want to see other signs of his standing in the scientific community.    

      "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." Plato

      by JPete on Thu Nov 23, 2006 at 07:33:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tin Foil hat time (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, CinDan, eyesoars

    I have heard rumors that fusion is much easier than we are lead to belive. But the DoD supresses it because evil doers could build nuclear weapons in their basements.  

    "She has the name recognition, the money, the glitz, she's got it all." Terry McAuliffe

    by naufragus on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:20:29 PM PDT

    •  That's not the claim. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      John DE

      The claim is that folks invested in one model, professionally and economically, simply don't recognize the value of alternative approaches. That's true often enough. Only publication will prove or disprove Bussards stability.

    •  Ease of fusion reactors? (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      taylormattd, Rimjob

      They're easy enough to make.  The article mentions Farnsworth Fusactors, which are real, and fairly easy to make.  High schoolers have made them from time to time; they can also make things radioactive quickly.

      Working Fusactors are radioactive as *!@#&!@ and don't break even (as the clips noted) in terms of power efficiency.

      The problem is, also as noted, that the grids used to accelerate the ions in the accelerator also prevent the reaction from generating energy -- losses due to ions and electrons colliding with the grids keeps power efficiency  well below unity.

      If the design mentioned (alas, the details weren't included) are correct, then this is enormous.  It makes fusion reactors and fusion power generation practicable.  Now, except for all the neutrons emitted, it'd be cheap...  if they can really run it on a neutron-free reaction cycle, that'd be pretty !@*#!@# amazing.  Even if they can, however, it'd take enormous efficiency to keep from turning the grids radioactive.

    •  Watched the video (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      taylormattd, Rimjob

      The claims are IMO credible.  This is a guy who would be capable of figuring out the physics, and it appears he has.  I suppose the device could be called a magnetically-shielded Farnsworth Fusactor (the device uses magnetic shields to prevent collisions between the ions/electrons and the field electrodes).

      The scaling numbers were interesting.  He claims the physics show power scaling as the seventh power of size, while efficiency grows with the fifth power of size.  This strongly implies that the size of these devices will vary only slightly.  I suspect that the efficiency will drive this more than power -- inefficiences are relatively painful.  Full size devices will be a couple meters across, but may be sized somewhat larger to gain efficiency (rather than power).  [This size doesn't include the ancillaries -- coolant, pumps, turbines, generators, &c.  Those will be more to the scale of conventional power plants.]

      He's upfront that there's still plenty of engineering to be done, and it's clear there is.  He costs it out at about $200 million, which seems pretty reasonable.  I'd guess more, but only because a lot of fiddling should be done once feasibility is demonstrated.

      The potential deal-killer in all this is the particle radiation.  Ideally, all the power would be taken out of the reactor as bremsstrahlung radiation and X/gamma rays, but in practice there will be plenty of charged particles and probably many energetic neutrons (esp. if run on a D-T or D-D cycle) and neutral atoms.  Even the neutron-free boron-11 cycle will probably generate many unpleasant reaction products in secondary cycles.  Any neutron flux at all will cause the main reactor structure to become highly radioactive over time.  Any energetic particles that escape the electrostatic confinement will be captured and their heat converted to power, but they will do a lot of damage to the reactor core over time, probably generating secondary neutrons and other unpleasantnesses (and limiting reactor life).

      Ultimately, it is these things that will limit the feasibility of fusion reactors, and take the bulk of the development money.  But it's just engineering... not physics, which is Bussard's main concern.

  •  I feel bad for any scientist claiming (6+ / 0-)

    to have made a fusion discovery. Cold, Hot, or what-have-you.

    There have been so many frauds and claims that were not duplicatable experiments that the guy(s) or gal(s) who does have 'the real deal' is probably going to get booed in derision in a lot of circles.

    I'm a cynic and a skeptic, and while I hope its true they are going to have to prove everything twice, to people who think Mensa members are slow, to get me to believe.

    "Arguments are extremely vulgar, for everyone in good society holds exactly the same opinion." - Oscar Wilde

    by LeftHandedMan on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:22:06 PM PDT

    •  ah yes, those who think Mensa is too open (5+ / 0-)

      that being in the top 2% or whatever it is supposed to be allows in too many unintelligent people

      I have to admit briefly being a member of Mensa while in college.  I went to one meeting in suburban Philadelphia.  More than half the people there worked at GE's Missile and Space Division and thus really couldn't talk with the rest of there because we were not "cleared" (and no, that is NOT a Dianetics expression, it was that we did not have the appropriate security clearancs.).  

      Otherwise I found them a fairly bland group of people - some people had minds that seemed interesting and some were actually fairly narrow in their interests.

      Oh, and btw, I am not a scientist by inclination, but I know enough about peer reviewing, having served as a peer reviewer for several educational journals, to know that sometimes peer reviewers turn down things for reasons that might not be of the soundest reasoning?  Thus I can remember one article which I cleared but that the other peer reviewer rejected, for reasons I think were specious.  I do not know who the other reviewer was, I do know the reasons with which I was provided were less than, shall we say, sound in their reasoning, and seemed to indicate some level of bias.  Just saying.

      do we still have a Republic and a Constitution if our elected officials will not stand up for them on our behalf?

      by teacherken on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:32:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You don't say! (1+ / 0-)

        I would think that one peek inside the Letters section of the Mensa Journal would disabuse anybody of the notion that Mensans are particularly smart.  

        Dems in 2008: An embarassment of riches. Repubs in 2008: Embarassments.

        by Yamaneko2 on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 05:12:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  woulnd't know - I quit after that meeting (0+ / 0-)

          and never did get the journal.  I couldn't figure out why, other than insecurity, people needed to belong to an organization like that.

          do we still have a Republic and a Constitution if our elected officials will not stand up for them on our behalf?

          by teacherken on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 06:18:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  with regard to the 17 year old "mad scientist"... (15+ / 0-)

    I thought it was funny that his parents wouldn't let him build a hyperbaric chamber, but they had no problem with his building a nuclear fusion reactor.

    my parents wouldn't even let me grow pot in their basement.

    ;-)

  •  Excellent (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, eeff

    Thanks for the science update - once we get this power thing licked, maybe we'll be able to start solving related problems for the long term.

  •  Cheney is putting one together in his basement (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, marchmoon

    but what with all the invasion plans, it's hard to get much done.

    fouls, excesses and immoderate behavior are scored ZERO at Over the Line, Smokey!

    by seesdifferent on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:28:32 PM PDT

  •  Sounds like the real deal (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, RandomSequence

    This fellow Bussard sounds like he knows what he is talking about. If he can break even with this design, I would be interested if I were Google. Computing is a function of available energy as much as anything else.

    I know that they are getting ready to build the ITER tokamak in the hopes of acheiving break-even, but it is being built by a consortium of the industrialized nations. If his idea is viable, and the science is sound, I think Google might bite.

    Fusion fits into their intellectual/philosophical  portfolio. Even if it is as a means to provide power for themselves.

    The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream.

    by Whimper Bang on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:28:43 PM PDT

    •  Forget computing. (4+ / 0-)

      A patent on close to free energy is the equivalent of printing you own money. If this works, they'll dump that little search engine thing they do know.

      •  if Bussard can get to "proof of concept" (0+ / 0-)

        we've got a new ball game in alternative energy in which all sorts of things become not only practical, but relatively cheap.

        • the end of "clean coal"
        • a chance to get a real handle on global warming
        • hydrogen suddenly becomes a rational concept for discussion
        • biomass biofuel suddenly geta a lot easier. . . we can grow under artificlal lights 24/7 to supplement sunlight using cheap energy
        • we can start thinking of converting large chunks of the auto and short-run trucking fleet to pure electric power. (fuel cells or CNT ultracaps, I suppose)

        This is just a start, no point in speculating further unless we know what the facts are going to be.

        Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

        by alizard on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 07:01:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Points for the B2TF ref (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Trix, Ray Radlein, Rimjob, HiBob

    But America won't get energy-independent unless we can find a way to harness Jay-Z's ego.

    Founder of the Committee to Save asdf

    by droogie6655321 on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:28:46 PM PDT

  •  great! now i have a market for my flux capacitor! (8+ / 0-)

    "There are many truths of which the full meaning cannot be realized until personal experience has brought it home." John Stuart Mill

    by kuvasz on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:34:42 PM PDT

  •  invest definitely (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, hyperstation, dunderhead

    if it works and can actually provide "Mr. Fusion" style home plants that would be fantastic to couple with self replicating rapid prototypers.  Saw a discussion of those on Slashdot and they are almost to the point where the VonNeuman machines of fiction could become a reality.

  •  This is good. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, cotterperson, lenski

    As for the DoD and Navy blocking it, remember, they have their nuclear wessels. And nuclear warheads up the yin yang.
    Having the ability to create a nuclear fusion reactor can be dealt with openly, and they know it.
    So... no tinfoil.
    Just remember that back in the seventies, President Carter issued a Executive order to ban nuclear fusion research due more to the fear of the Nuetron Warhead than any actual fear of the Nuclear Fusion industry.
    If this proves out to be a possible advancement, we'll see this show up in the Japanese and European research labs. (Once they get past the "BUT MY IDEA IS BETTER!!!! reactions... )

    The surge worked huh? Really? Are the American soldiers out of Iraq? Then the surge FAILED!

    by RElland on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:38:25 PM PDT

    •  the Navy would be VERY happy (0+ / 0-)

      to see this research happen and work out. A fleet of relatively cheap "electric warships" with railgun main batteries has some rather interesting possibilities. Starting with. . . their no longer being a customer for oil from anybody. (or high explosives, for that matter)

      Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

      by alizard on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 07:05:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is a topic (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob

    I'd particularly enjoy the insights of dmsilev on. Although it might not be his speciality.

    You can't be on the team, if you're not in the choir. Sorry.

    by peeder on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:42:49 PM PDT

  •  Scientist Claims Nuclear Fusion Breakthrough (8+ / 0-)

    "...Again? But that trick never works!"


    "I play a street-wise pimp" — Al Gore

    by Ray Radlein on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:44:17 PM PDT

  •  we will not tollerate (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob

    a gnooglear internets!

    "A fundamentalist is someone who hates sin more than he loves virtue."--John Schaar

    by Guglielmo on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:55:49 PM PDT

  •  Tin foil Hat Time (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    bluewolverine

    I have heard about cold fusion so much the last twenty years, but it always turns out to be a bunch of bullS**t.
    I wish it was true, but c'mon.  I don't even waste my time reading about this science fiction anymore.

    80 percent of success is just showing up - Woody Allen.

    by Churchill on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:56:54 PM PDT

    •  Um, (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      david78209

      I think we're talking about hot fusion, which is the real deal.

      •  Some sort of muon-catalyzed cold fusion (0+ / 0-)

        was discovered long ago -- maybe even in the late 1940's (!) and for about six weeks the discoverers thought they'd solved the world's energy problems forever.  But the muons take a lot of energy to make, and have a short life, so they only reached 0.1% of break-even, if I remember right.  If somebody stumbles on a way to make the process 10,000 times as efficient, bingo!

        As I remember (from an article in Scientific American I read a good 30+ years ago) the muon can take the place of an electron in a deuterium molecule.  Since the muon is a lot heavier than an electron, the molecule shrinks -- the nuclei move closer together.  I think just being closer allows some pairs of nuclei to fuse into a helium nucleus -- fusion!  It might be as simple as finding the right frequency of electromagnetic radiation to match the resonant frequency with which those two duterium nuclei vibrate toward and away from each other to speed up the reaction by several orders of magnitude.

        We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

        by david78209 on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 06:48:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  you should reconsider (0+ / 0-)

      if this thing works, we can then focus our efforts on finding sasquatch.

  •  These Internets are a bunch of Tubes w/the Google (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob

    Ted Stevens and George Bush should have an idiot contest.  I am sure it would go into overtime tied at zero to zero, or as the French soccer fans would say, Nil to Nil.

    80 percent of success is just showing up - Woody Allen.

    by Churchill on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:58:22 PM PDT

  •  How do you fuse such a heavy ion? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, david78209

    This can't be that easy.

    You've got to really accelerate these puppies to a nice speed, and smash them together at a really high rate.  Boron is heavy, and slow, and lumbering but I can't imagine that each collision will produce that much energy, and the result (Carbon 12?) is pretty damn tame.  In that respect, IF this works it would be very clean, and relatively easy to build.

    My problem is, something this easy would have been made a thousand times by now!

    •  Field acceleration (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Rimjob

      It really is about that easy.

      Even if it works, however (and this guy doesn't sound like a nut-case, nor does he have the history for it), it's likely that the radioactive waste will be an enormous problem.

      Even if the main cycle (Boron-11) is practicable and doesn't generate neutrons, secondary reactions and collisions between the fast-moving ions and the grid will generate plenty of unpleasant and highly radioactive products.

      Unless they've got the grid collision completely solved -- as in near zero grid collision rates -- there will be way too many stray neutrons to make this an improvement on fission reactors.

  •  small scale nuclear power plants (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob

    My father-in-law spent 20 years working in a Canadian power corporation.  He worked in R&D as well as a manager of a hydro-electric dam in northern saskatchewan.

    He has told me that there already are small scale nuclear devices in use.  the russians use them to power their satellites.  They are small enough that each one is about the size of a home furnace.  

    He personally believed that these devices would/should be the future of energy supply, powering each home they are installed in with a lifetime(plus) supply of energy.  (I don't share his utopian view, he doesn't seem to see the down side)

    •  Thermoelectric Generators (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      david78209, HiBob, npbeachfun, esquimaux

      They use the heat of radioactive decay to drive a Peltier junction to generate electricity. A Peltier junction is an electronic device similar to a transistor that generates electricity when there's a temperature difference across the two sides of the device.

      In any case, thermoelectric generators aren't very powerful or efficient. They're used in satellites and space probes because they're still more powerful than solar panels, and there's not much solar energy when you get out to Jupiter's orbit.

      •  Don't they use Strontium-90, or (0+ / 0-)

        Cesium 137, or something else with a half-life of a few decades?  It's stuff that's very highly radioactive for a few centuries, so you don't want it nearby.

        We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

        by david78209 on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 06:53:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  "Too Cheap to Meter..." (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, NeuvoLiberal, esquimaux

    Where have we heard this before???

    Surely, these wondrous new fusion devices will "one day cure the common cold" as well...

    "I've been an oilman all my life, but this is one crisis we can't drill our way out of" --T. Boone Pickens

    by bincbom on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 04:23:46 PM PDT

    •  You tagline: Lamont for CT-04! (0+ / 0-)

      I think I now fully support the idea, given what Tim Tagaris said about Diane Farrell's eager dumping of Ned. Although, I'd like to see him get involved at local, state and national levels of grassroots politics before the campaign for the 2008  cycle begins.

    •  So this friend of mine (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Pinecone

      tries to hook me up with this girl.  Really pretty- high maintenance, but she'll screw anything with a pulse.  And I didn't have a good date in weeks, I was horny as hell.  But I didn't have a buck to my name, and I was to cheap to meet her.

  •  Fusion Convergence (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob

    Slashdot reports that the ITER Consortium of "China, the European Union, India, Japan, Russia, South Korea, and the United States" signed a $12.8B agreement to build an experimental fusion reactor in southern France. Slashdot also reported today on Thiago "mad scientist" Olson's basement fusion.

    There are other fusion investigations into "bubble fusion" and other alternate methods for cheaply, safely fusing matter to release energy with small devices.

    I keep my tincap screwed more tightly to protect me from the unregulated energy production by independent experimenters than from the conspiracies of vested energy interests. If Reagan hadn't shut down alternate energy research in the 1980s, there would be more places for "fringe" researchers to go that could safely investigate. Instead, the pent up urge to investigate fusion is going on all over the place. I hope the tidal change in the US will include more development of responsible fusion (and other energy generation) research. So we can channel these people into constructive work for everyone.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 04:28:29 PM PDT

  •  1E-4 to 1E-5 ? Did you mean 10E-4 to 10E-5? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    HigherPie, Rimjob

    1E-anything will always be 1.

  •  Private Sector Angels? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob

    This report has apparently been making the rounds for a few months, and the video (from October) is giving it a bump.

    The US DOD dropped out of continued funding because it deemed spending on the war to be more important. Brussard wants $200 million for his next version. But even if the IEC's production of fusion improves as much as he predicts, it's not clear to me how he's going to transfer the heat out from this design to do real work.

    Also, his patent on the IEC concept may be deterring other independent experiments, so anyone looking for commercial return has to work with him.

    But it sure does sound cool.

    Google just spent 1.6 Billion on YouTube. There's all kinds of big-money people willing to try high-payoff risks. Paul Allen loves this kind of stuff. Lots of entrepreneurs are out there trying to build their own space ships.

    I don't put much credibility in anti-clean energy conspiracies. If the technology looks like a smart enough gamble, the angels will come.

    •  The problem with the Angels are extreme (0+ / 0-)

      you have to educate them and then you have to tickle their greed. If you educate them too much, they steal your idea, dream, life, etc.

      I like your signature line.... if only it was true.

      Reality is best served in small portions and only to others.

      by 0hio on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 06:22:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This looks interesting and deserves further study (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, thereisnospoon

    With the caveat that my Ph.D. is in physical chemistry and not physics (although I've also taken a lot of physics), this certainly looks interesting.  I recommend viewing the full video of Bussard's talk at Google.  His description of the both the research itself and the funding/contract experience with the Navy and DARPA was highly credible (I've had funding from both ONR and DARPA myself, and once had a admiral come to my "rescue" on a project when more funding was needed).  Regarding the physics itself, it is well known that fusion reactions can be achieved using a variety of techniques, the hard part being "scientific" break-even and "engineering" break-even, where the energy output exceeds the input.  Bussard's approach seems to be within a factor of ~100 of that and the R to the 7th power scaling for this technique suggests that going to a larger size could make this a practical system (although much engineering will be required). The possibility of practical controlled fusion is so important that this approach certainly deserves further study and possible support.

  •  Fund This (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rimjob

    I just watched the entire lecture.  I'm not a scientist.  But it sounded good.  And I can completely understand the good doctor's rationale for why the government is too caught up on the current boondoggle of mainstream fusion research to risk taking his idea seriously.  He said he could do the initial phase to offer proof for 2-3 million.  And $200 million overall for results in 5-10 years.  Hell.  Figure in cost over runs.  Throw $400 million at him.

    We're spending $6-10 billion a month in Iraq.  We spend $700 million a year on national D.A.R.E. programs, when solid research says it has no long term benefit for reducing adolescent drug use.  Come the fuck on.  This is a good gamble.  Calling Bill Gates.  Or George Soros.  Or Ted Turner.  Buck up a few million for the prototype and let's get on to reducing fossil fuels.  Pretty easy gamble to make when you put the money in perspective with the potential payoff.

    Just my $.02

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