Daily Kos

The Complete Failure of Supply-Side Economics

Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 04:33:53 AM PDT

Starting with Reagan in 1980, the Republican Party embraced and implemented "supply-side" economics.  The central theory of supply-side economics was politically an easy sell: if the government cuts tax rates – especially on the wealthy – the wealthy will feel more inclined to earn more money.  This will encourage the wealthy to make even more money.  This will lead to higher tax revenue, which will more than offset the loss of revenue from the initial tax cuts.  The central problem is no matter how you look at the results, they didn’t work as advertised.

Reagan started the implementation in 1981, cutting upper-income taxes from roughly 70% to 50%.   But a funny thing happened.  Tax revenues were stagnant for 4 years from 1981 to 1984.  For the years 1981-1984, revenues from individual taxpayers were (in billions) $285, $297, $288 and $298, (click on historical budget data) respectively.  While the double-dip recession is partially responsible for the first two years, the economy came out of the recession November 1982.  Yet for two more years, the rich didn’t feel unencumbered enough to increase their work efforts.  At the same time, discretionary spending increased from $307 billion to $379 billion – an increase of 29%.  This discrepancy between revenues and receipts then continued for the rest of Reagan’s presidency.  Here is a chart from the St. Loius Federal Reserve that shows the discrepancy.  Expenditures are blue and receipts are red.

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There are three problems with Reagan’s overall economic policy.  The first is the massive amount of debt he incurred for economic growth (which we’ll get too in a minute).  The second was Reagan did not implement the other side of conservative fiscal policy – cutting spending.  The third problem was the US did not achieve a super-human rate of national product growth.  The median quarterly change in GDP during Reagan’s tenure was 3.85%.  This is a good rate of growth.  But the cost was substantial because to achieve this growth Reagan used debt which the US has not paid off.

Bush 43 has attempted the same policy with the exact same result.  Bush 43 has cut taxes twice.  Yet revenue from individual taxpayers has not increased sufficiently to make-up for the loss in revenue.  Revenue from individual taxpayers was $994 billion in 2001 and $1.08 trillion in the third quarter of 2006.  However, Bush 43 has increased discretionary spending from $649 billion in 2001 to $967 billion in 2005.  As a result, the gap between federal revenue and spending is similar to Reagan’s graph.

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On the chart above, notice the scale for revenue on the right is $100 billion less per line than the expenditure line on the left.

 

As with Reagan, the US has achieved a good rate of economic growth, but hardly super-human in level.  In short, as with Reagan’s economic plan, the growth achieved is insufficient to stimulate the economy to high enough levels to make-up for the loss in revenue.

The end result of all of this is simple: Reagan and Bush have mortgage our economic future with debt.

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What makes this system even more sinister from a policy perspective is the issue of "rentiers".  This is the fancy, eco-geek way of saying there are people who sit back and make money off of the current system without doing much except lobbying the government to maintain their benefits.  In the current system, the US economy needs large pools of capital that will buy government debt to finance the economy.  These people don’t really do much except collect principal and interest payments on the national debt.  That’s their job and function in the US economy.  Ever wonder why the Republicans were so interested in passing a capital gains tax cut?  Now you know.  The current national economic structure needs people who are willing to buy US debt.  Therefore, we need to encourage that behavior with a tax code that benefits people who buy government bonds.  The problem is this structure becomes self-defeating.  As the government issues more debt, it needs more people to buy bonds.  To do that, it continues to cut taxes to make government debt a more attractive investment, which in turn increases the use of debt to finance the US government.  And around and around the cycle goes.

 

This also partially explains why the US can't take a stronger stand against China.  China has routinely violated their WTO commitments on a host of fronts.  However, the US needs the Chinese to buy US debt to maintain the American way of life.  Hence, the US' over-reliance on debt makes it impossible for the US to use the "bully-pulpit" to challenge trade violations.

"So BD – why do you always harp on "supply-side" economics?  We know it doesn’t work as advertised.  Never has, never will."  Here’s why I always harp on it.

 

The Republicans still believe in it.  

They’ll find all sorts of ways to sell it, to make the basic facts fit their premise and to lie about it.  No matter how many facts they encounter, they will find a way to make their dream theory come true.  Since they list this election, they will return to their political roots, one of which is supply-side economics.  And we have to beat them to the punch.  We have to tell everybody until the whole country knows it’s a scam.

As the Democrats start to implement policy they will face tough choices regarding taxes, spending and government debt.  And there are no easy answers to the questions they will face.  The Republicans will jump in with their magic elixir of supply-side economics to make the problem seemly go away.  
We have to prevent that from happening.

For more discussion on current economic matters, visit the bonddad blog.

Tags: economy, supply side economics, Recommended (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 160 comments

  •  I think your text and legend disagree on (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Eddie Haskell, Fabian, Dauphin

    the first chart. If expenditures are the red, he did pretty darn good, and we wouldn't be in this pickle.

  •  But, wait, Bonddad... (38+ / 0-)

    I'm an average American and I, too, am hoping to be rich one day. Shouldn't I do everything in my power -- including voting against my own economic self-interest -- to support the continuation of these policies?

    "Oh, TV. Is there anything you can't do?" -- Homer Simpson

    by Melody Townsel on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 04:46:11 AM PDT

  •  If Bush decides to escalate Iraq (14+ / 0-)

    Many are suggesting at the idiot king will dramatically increase the force in Iraq to fight the Shiite militias in Baghdad, which will guarantee that the OMB deficit figures are unreallistically optimistic.  Depression anyone?  The damn supply siders will be the death of us all.

    John McCain, Master of the Purpose Driven Lie.

    by DWG on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 04:47:31 AM PDT

    •  The Dems (40+ / 0-)

      must press to put the Iraq war on budget.  The supplementary budget process is crap.

      "You think you can intimidate me? Screw you. Choose your Weapon." Eliot Spitzer

      by bonddad on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 04:50:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The combination of supply-side economics and the (15+ / 0-)

        money that we have wasted in Iraq will ruin this country. The Dems. have to take control of the purse strings and end the war by ending the funding. Otherwise the boy-king will destroy America. The only people who have benefitted from this are Halliburton and the other war profiteers.

        •  Bush & Repub control = disaster (5+ / 0-)

          Fiscal disaster.
          Foreign policy disaster.
          World turmoil and endless wars.

          Time to get rid of Bush.  Stop the Idiot-Tyrant from doing more damage, impeach Cheney first, then Bush.

        •  I agree, blue jersey mom. But it's a (5+ / 0-)

          bit more involved.

          DB writes, "The Republicans still believe in it."

          I don't believe that either.

          The republicans are doing exactly as they are told.

          Deficit spending creates debt. Wars create debt. Tax cuts create debt.

          Fiscal year 2006 showed $405,000,000,000 as being paid in interest re our national debt.

          Think about money for a moment. Whenever debt is created, regardless the purpose, where does the money that pays the interest earned on the created debt come from?

          Our Federal Note currency is bleeding us to death.

          Whenever someone buys a car, for example, the bank loans the money to the buyer. The buyer pays monthly payments of principal and interest until the loan is retired.

          Where did the money come from to pay the interest on the car loan?

          We Americans will never get out of debt. It's impossible. It can not ever happen as long as we borrow (create debt) our own money.

          Another thing, if our country can issue bonds to secure the loan of our own money from the Federal Reserve Bank, why not just issue money?

          Strange thing about Iraq, we common people have little invested in the war or so we are told. It's not true. If there was a draft then the Mothers of America would be much more involved and anti war.

          We need to begin a campaign to instruct the Mothers of how badly their babies are being treated now and forever more.

          http://brillig.com/...  will explain the horrific numbers. Divide the national debt by the population and discover how much we all owe.

          Easy math, common sense but don't stop. The Iraqi war isn't over and the expense hasn't hardly begun.

          The health care of our military will be another 1 - 2 trillion dollars. The repair and maintenance of the military equipment will be equal or superior.

          Add those numbers to the national debt and watch our individual costs rise.

          Our kids and grand kids will be paying for the mistakes of George W Bush forever, for as long as they live.

          Reality is best served in small portions and only to others.

          by 0hio on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 08:17:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  PNAC "mission accomplished" (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            splashy, greenearth, TomP

            Washington Post, June 12, 2006

            There had been debate about PNAC's future, but the feeling, a source said, was of "goal accomplished" and it looks to be heading toward closing.

            I first becamse aware of their existence and the agenda to create a War for the New American Century as  the Bush Criminals lied us into Iraq invasion.  It was my prior knowledge of the region and what they were getting us into that assured the fundamental conclusion:

            The Global War on Terrorism was designed with an unwinnable objective from the start -- defeating an -ism -- because it was not going to be won or lost within the lifetimes of those who designed it.  

            If you were investing in stocks during the NASDAQ hysteria engineered around the New Economy based on this miraculous Internet thingie, you'll get this immediately.  There came a point when Wall Street shifted their hype to the gold-miner model, that the sustained big money is not had from being one of the dot-coms in this new-fangled virtual world, the cash-flow was sustained for those who'd be selling the 'picks and shovels' used by the gold-miners chasing get rich.

            While there is a chase-able dream and people to chase it, they'll need vendors for their picks and shovels.

            The corruption of 9/11 to become PNAC's GWOT is Mission Accomplished and the need for picks and shovels is by now self-sustaining. And this is among the supreme treasons committed by the Bush Administration when you remember the expression of sympathy after September 11, 2001.  

            Does anyone recall that amazing phrase of hybrid Parisian-Arabic derivation, We're all Americans today!?

            Neither do the French or the Arabs.
            But KBR will happily sell them picks and shovels.

            adapting the world to himself...all progress depends on the unreasonable man
            -GB Shaw

            by luaptifer on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 09:24:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  to avoid the shower of tinfoil confetti (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              greenearth

              I don't mean to say that they caused 9/11 to get their GWOT.

              As is the nature of vultures, however, if you find a carcass, it's time to eat!

              adapting the world to himself...all progress depends on the unreasonable man
              -GB Shaw

              by luaptifer on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 09:39:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  this is what I fear (0+ / 0-)

          The Dems. have to take control of the purse strings and end the war by ending the funding. Otherwise the boy-king will destroy America. The only people who have benefitted from this are Halliburton and the other war profiteers.

          crazy as it soundsm, I think this is Rove's strategy.  It worked after the dems cut funding fo SEATO in 1974 to then, 6 years later (and continuing today) to blame vietnam on the Dems 'cutting and running'.  I think they want to se us up for zeroing the iraq war budget i 2007 so they can run agaist uas for 'losing the iraq war' in 2012 or 2016

          We have no desire to offend you -- unless you are a twit!

          by ScrewySquirrel on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 10:10:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I agree, but will they? (9+ / 0-)

        Pelosi will be in almost impossible situation because unless they can revoke the Iraq authorization and refuse any supplementary bumps in funding, Bush is going to tell her what he has decided.  My guess is that he will announce his decision before the next Congress opens - a recess declaration of escalation.

        John McCain, Master of the Purpose Driven Lie.

        by DWG on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 05:00:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  YES YES YES (6+ / 0-)

        "The supplementary budget process is crap..."
        Again you took the words right out of my mouth, er, keyboard.
        The "Supplementary" budget process is Bush's version of "signing statements" on the economy. By keeping the  numbers seperate, Bush has been allowed to hocuspocus the numbers up even further. I'd love to see a diary from you on how they've changed numberskeeping to make Bush look better. They keep the numbers seperate so the American people don't know how much the war is costing them.
        That deficit that Bush is supposed to "Halve" by '08? I hope the Democrats hold his ffeet to the fire, as the Repubs did to Clinton and make him keep hiis promises.
        Good on you, bonddad, a recommendation as always.
        A suggestion--now would be a good time to do a Clintonomics vs Bushonomics diary or series. Democrats need to be asking in '08: "Are YOU better off now than you were 8 years ago?" Your expert, detailed analysis would be good to have on hand. Hope you write a book about this and other topics.
        Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays, whichever works for you.

        If Liberals really hated America we'd vote Republican

        by exlrrp on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 05:49:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Especially without (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        greenearth

        supplementary revenue.  Can you see Bush asking for a "War Tax" along with his Halliburton giveaways?

        But seriously, can this be done?  Are congressional majorities enough to change the way the deficit is defined?

        Seek first and final principles at The Mean Free Path.

        by Cream Puff on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 09:12:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, tell the DOD "if you can't fight a war (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        greenearth

        with half a trillion dollars a year, you don't need to fight one."  At least, you shouldn't be able to keep the cost off the books when you calculate the national debt, which I believe they are doing.

        Offshore drilling is like taking a chainsaw to your couch for the pocket change. You might get $1.20, but you'll have to pay $500 to replace the couch.

        by ohiolibrarian on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 02:03:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for making economic issues (10+ / 0-)

    not only comprehensible, but interesting, to economic dolts like me.  It is greatly appreciated!  

  •  more coffee Bonddad (math error) (7+ / 0-)

    In the second paragraph: 379 over 307 is an increase of 23%, not 29%.

    I still think the most damning graph (I even keep a copy of it on my PC to send out or use in a post) is the National Debt as a percentage versus GDP.  If ever you wanted a clearer picture that Reagan/Bush and Bush II really did little other than just borrow money and spend us into debt - there it is.  I love sending this to my Republican friends (yes I have them).  Blows away the "well, we're at war" excuse.  Even Nixon with Viet Nam and Ike with Korea still kept the relative size (percentage-wise) of the debt under control.  

  •  benevolent despots (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Melody Townsel

    tough to count on 'em though. Too many Scrooges.
    I been Scrooged before.
    Happy Holidays Bonddad. Keep putting coal in their stockings.

  •  I am a mathematician and a computer systems (16+ / 0-)

    guy.  I am not stupid, but I just can't get economics.  Well, maybe I am stupid.  But in any case, you seem to be saying that supply-side economics has the following effects: taxes go down, especially on the rich, the government is starved for money and deficits go up, the poor and the middle class languish while the rich flourish, government spending goes up and some portion of that spending goes to the companies of the rich thereby making them even richer.  And this pattern continues until the administration changes and the new guys have to do the hard work of raising taxes and trying to get our fiscal house in order.  

    In the specific case of GWB's administration we have an outlier.  The tax decreases heavily favored the rich, the deficits are climbing to higher levels than before, the poor and the middle class are not getting any benefit from this, the infrastructure that we have built has declined due to inadequate care or abuse (the military comes to mind), and the next administration will have an even more difficult job of turning things around without large tax increases on the wealthy.  

    If the foregoing is generally correct, and I hope it is not, then how can this crap be stopped?  What must be done to put us on a steady, reasonable fiscal path?  Can you point me to some text or other resource that will finally get this economic stuff into my brain?  For the life of me I just can't see what sort of minds would destroy our nation's fiscal system.

    What happens if we don't stop the current madness?

    If you don't have an earth-shaking idea, get one, you'll love building a better world.

    by hestal on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 05:11:35 AM PDT

    •  Let me suggest that (15+ / 0-)

      the reason you can't get economics and the reason economic predictions are never accurate is because economics is an ass-backwards science.  Even though they are dealing with real measurable quantities of things, economists start with models (ideal scenarios) and then try to fit the data they collect in.  And everything that doesn't fit (even if it's only a transaction that's not mediated by money--the precursor of every monetized economy) is left out.  
      So, for example, economic models cannot track the transition from a barter to a monetized economy.  For all intents and purposes, a barter-based economy just doesn't exist.  On the other hand, since the role of barter in the U.S. economy, obviously a mature economy, is increasing, the response of economists is to identify an "underground economy" and to develop strategies to keep the participants from evading taxes--mostly by taxing ancillary behaviors that they assume to be occurring, more.

      To a certain extent it's just a matter of being lazy.  Every transaction that involves the transfer of money is easy to count.  So, that's what they include in their calculations.  Period.

      Another structural problem in economics (the science) is that it can't account for the difference between negatives and positives--things that people perceive as benefits and things they perceive as injuries.  As a result, the reponse to the latter to ameliorate the negatives (medical intervention, incarceration of criminals, land reclamation) are all either calculated as net positives (when done by the private sector) or extra-economic behaviors that act as a drain on the economy.  Indeed, one impetus for "privatization" is the desire to integrate certain activities into THE economy.  
      Which suggests that a considerable amount of supposed economic growth is an illusion since simply transfering functions from the public to the private sector doesn't actually produce any more benefit or value.

      How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

      by hannah on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 05:53:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Costs and benefits outside direct transactions (8+ / 0-)

        are another blind spot for economics. The term for them in economics is externalities. A classic externalitiy is an unremediated effect of burning gas to move things. The monetary cost is easily calculated but the side effect, global climate change, is not included in the calculation of economic activity. If positive and negative externalities were calculated for many industries what look like profits under the current way of looking at things would be losses. The illusion of wealth creation is really in the ability of the system to ignore externalities.

        In Europe taxation is used to refelct this external cost in the price of gas at the pump and direct consumer behavior and the supply side of the economic equation toward less environmentally costly methods of moving things from place to place.

        Since there is a significant accumulation and lag time effect for the negative effect of climate change relative to the countable econmic activity that creates the climate change the current U.S. model will not catch up to the real costs of climate change until we are all in climate freefall and running short of food.

        Love = Awareness of mutually beneficial exchange across semi-permeable boundaries. Political and economic systems either amplify or inhibit Love.

        by Bob Guyer on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 06:51:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Many economists do .. and those that do .. (0+ / 0-)

        ... are not doing economics as a science.

        Real social science relies on assumptions that are anchored in reality. When someone establishes that an assumption really isn't anchored in reality, that forces social scientists to develop a new theory or fall back on a more robust one. Like any science, some theories are more successful than others, but the whole enterprise is reality-based.

        When a traditional marginalist economist finds out that his assumption is not anchored in reality, he looks for a fiction assumed by a more famous marginalist economist, and ties his theory to that fiction. The whole enterprise is a very dull genre of fiction.

    •  Well, I'm no economist either, (5+ / 0-)

      but I do know the answer to one of your questions:

      "What sort of minds would destroy our nation's fiscal system?"

      Evil ones.

      They know damn well what they're doing is not an "economic philosophy" but rather an excercise in greed.  I try to avoid Fox news speak but they really do hate America.  Screaming "we'll cut your taxes!" is easy to sell and keeps them in power.  The negative impact this has on our country's fiscal health barely registers on their collective conscious.  They got theirs.

      In a two party system, that leaves only 1 responsible political party looking out for the well being of our country.  Finding a way to get this message out to the populace is the challenge of our generation.

    •  The world has always been thus (9+ / 0-)

      Read Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations (the non-expurgated version), where he laments at length about how the masters of mankind (the elite) organize the economy and government according to what he calls the "vile maxim": all for ourselves, and nothing for others.  This is what is known as class war, which cannot be sold to the public honestly, so it has to be dressed up in pseudo-scientific verbiage that tries to convince the victims that the poison is good for them.  Much like the imperial rhetoric that accompanied colonialism: "we're coming to serve your backward land and its disadvantaged people, not exploit them for our benefit!"  The English were particularly good at this kind of sophisticated duplicity, and we Americans have only refined the technique to an artform.

      -7.75, -7.64 www.politicalcompass.org "When the intellectual history of this era is finally written, it will scarcely be believable." -- Noam Chomsky

      by scorponic on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 06:13:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Econ 101 Explanations Assume perfect markets (9+ / 0-)

      Like physics 101 assumes no friction. Try explaining how you steer your car using physics 101.

      There was a good comment on this issue a few days ago.

      The problem isn't your intelligence, it's the dumbed-down economic arguments that don't apply to the real world.

      "It's the planet, stupid."

      by FishOutofWater on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 06:43:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Quit Being So Nice, It's Not "Supply Side" Econ.. (16+ / 0-)

    ....it's "Ponzi Scheme" Economics.

    Help Make One In A Million Possible - A Documentary Feature Film About Asperger's.

    by tkmattson on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 05:19:51 AM PDT

  •  Check out the article on Goldmann Sachs (5+ / 0-)

    bonuses this year. It's #7 on the most read list. at http://nytimes.com

    There's going to be trickle down to BMW dealers this year.

  •  Question about the Debt-GNP chart (0+ / 0-)

    Bonddad, you often use the chart showing the various Administrations' performance regarding the national debt as a percentage of GNP. I'm trying to understand your use of blue and red, which doesn't seem consistent (but, like you, I may be caffeine-deficient; so bear with me, please).

    Do they represent the political parties? Do they signify which way the line is going? Either way, they're not consistent.

    If they mean the parties, the line should be red for the Eisenhower and Nixon/Ford years.

    If they mean up/down, there are a number of little upward segments that should be red.

    ...Or am I totally misunderstanding the colors' purposes here, which is also a significant possibility?

    Always love your analyses -- what I can understand of 'em, that is -- but this question about this recurring chart puzzles me. Help, sir?

    Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

    by bwintx on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 05:27:06 AM PDT

  •  I wouldn't say supply side is a complete failure (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    elfling, Inland

    I am sure the economy did benefit from decreasing the top marginal rates from 70%, but the question is whether the much smaller decreases we have seen have any real effect.  The idea that people will try to create more income when the government is taking say 40% instead of 70% is probably fairly true, but I highly doubt that the decrease from 40 to 33 does anything at all.  Also, on the cap gains front, the tax should be lower (or be able to be deferred for reinvested distributions) for most income brackets to encourage savings, but obviously millionaires don't need the break.

    •  From a strictly formal perspective (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jbou, Jesterfox, Webster

      the essence of capitalism is that current assets, instead of being either consumed or wasted on the spot, are preserved to produce more useful assets (wealth) in the future, regardless of who owns or claims sole use of the assets.  This, I would argue, is why nations (very large groups of people with a common interest) can engage in capitalism even while they assume that the ownership of the assets is held in common.  That is, communists are not precluded from practicing capitalism.
      Now, what's peculiar and, from my perspective inherently negative, is the recurring assumption in Western capitalism that the preservation of assets should be undertaken by someone other that those who want to use them in the future.  That is, under the rubric of "saving," individuals and groups are supposed to be persuaded to hand their surplus assets over to someone else to use (it's called investment), with little or no guarantee that this use will actually produce more wealth.  Indeed, even as "savings" are supposed to be a sign of virtue, those who actually hand them over to someone else as an "investment" are then described as engaging in "risky" behavior, which comes with the expectation that the investment will likely be "lost."

      And then we are supposed to be surprised that the savings rate is depressed.

      Why is it that modern enterprise keeps looking elsewhere to raise capital?  Eventually you'd think that a capitalist enterprise would become self-sustaining.  I mean, that's the idea, isn't it?

      How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

      by hannah on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 06:11:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The idea that one (0+ / 0-)

        turns his savings over is to maximize that individuals reutrn, while also being the most efficient thing to do for the economy as a whole.  Individuals have the abilty to "invest" in riskless (or relatively riskless) instruments, but due to their nature these typically have poor rates of return (they are not very efficient).  As it turns out, capitalism has been (with some regulation) self-sustaining in the US (and beginning to be globally), but any individual enterprise must raise capital initially in order to compete and enter the market.

  •  "Trickle Down Economics" (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    emeraldmaiden, Allogenes, TomP

    ... was the famous catchphrase popularized by David Stockman, Reagan's budget czar.  Ronald Reagan himself was not bright enough to understand economic issues and ceded policy oversight to Stockman and his gang of Neo-econs.  It was not a complete failure at all from their point of view. It did exactly what they hoped it would do -- concentrate wealth at the top of the economic food chain.

    The ultra-rich have been trickling down on the rest of us ever since and, like the ancient Mayans, we are supposed to be satisfied drinking the urine of the high priests after they're finished ingesting all the good stuff for themselves.

  •  Goals (12+ / 0-)

    When things go on in a certain direction for so long you can be sure that it isn't an accident, some group is profiting.

    Supply side economics is a myth put forward by business interests who need an intellectual cover for their activities. A small group of extremely wealthy people has funded most of the "think tanks" that provide this service.

    Ignore the theory and look at the facts on the ground. Yesterday Goldman Sachs reported record earnings, about double from last year. It is estimated that the smallest bonus that partners will get this year is $600,000.

    Where did all this money come from? Did these people create new jobs or start new businesses? No. It came from all the downsizing, outsourcing, cuts in salaries and benefits, shifts in health care and retirement costs that workers have been experiencing for the past several decades. Every dollar squeezed out of the firms expenses (read labor) goes to the bottom line. This makes the firm more profitable and boosts it stock price. It also has allowed the build up of huge reserves which, instead of being invested in new enterprises or infrastructure, are being used to fund take overs and other economically valueless activities.

    Every time a company uses its reserves for this type of financial game playing the middlemen like Goldman Sachs clean up. So, ignore the theory and follow the money.

    Why there has been no general populist movement in this country in face of this economic rape is something that continually baffles me.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again we are starting to look a lot like 1929. My 2 cents here:
    The Coming Crash

    •  Time for the Populist Progressive Party (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Allogenes, TomP

      First take back the Democratic party from the big money boys, Dr. Dean has started this process.  Then run the "populist Al Gore" or some other candidate who can see clearly that the status quo will not do, we are tired of being ripped of by the ultra-wealthy elites.  

      The next time anyone sees Tom Friedman and other deluded pundits in public, pour urine on their heads and ask them how they like "trickle down economics".

    •  Goldman makes its money (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      daisycolorado, Allogenes

      by providing opportunites to companies that do not have the expetise to get them on their own (ie mergers, aquisitions, raising capital, etc).  This is a valuable service and one that Goldman is clearly a global leader in.

      •  I disagree (6+ / 0-)

        There is very little money being raised to start new enterprises and the little there is tends to come from venture capitalists not investment banks.

        There is also no proof that mergers do anything to improve efficiency. This can be seen from the fact that most merger announcements are greeted on Wall Street by a decline in the price of the firm making the acquisition. The savings from merging two huge companies together are tiny compared with the overall economic activity. Eliminating one CEO and a board of directors doesn't amount to much.

        Many mergers these days are simply a way to improve the status of the company (or its CEO) and serve no economic purpose. Many take overs are also glorified pump and dump schemes as are the recent wave of privatizations. After a bit of putting lipstick on the pig these firms will be offered to the public again at inflated prices, thus yielding the investors another huge profit.

        Most firms that do need operating capital don't even use the stock market anymore, they prefer to issue bonds or commercial paper. These types of offerings are a lot less profitable for the middlemen then mergers.

        •  Can you provide a reference? (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Allogenes

          I agree with your statements.

          Our economy seems primarily to be producing financial products.

          Can you give me a reference to an economic text or essay regarding overproduction and underconsumption?  It seems obvious that an economy with a few ultra-wealthy haves and many have-nots is going to lead to a concentration of unproductive, trust-fund wealth in seek of financial investment opportunities -- of which there are fewer precisely because there are fewer consumers of those goods which might be produced.

          My hypothesis is that progressive economies with large middle classes are inherently more innovative and pie-increasing than stratified economies.

          "When the going gets tough, the tough get 'too big to fail'."

          by New Deal democrat on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 07:00:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Ditto disagree:Bulk of profits come from trading. (0+ / 0-)

      •  ...and rebalancing commodity indeces (0+ / 0-)

        which is where its blockboster earnings in the 3rd quarter came from.

        Nothing productive happening there, just taking advantage of the hedge fund suckers.

        "When the going gets tough, the tough get 'too big to fail'."

        by New Deal democrat on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 06:55:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

      I really think it is because relatively speaking, $600,000 is a number so foreign to most workers in this country that they just tend to ignore it.  Kind of like the Budget deficits and the money being wasted on an illegal war and war profiteering.  The dollars we are talking are just too big for the average person to grasp.  Now if we talk about losing a couple of hundred dollars in their salary bonuses - well then they get up in arms because that they can understand.

      http://icasualties.org/oif/ ** 4144 **

      by BDA in VA on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 06:29:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh No (0+ / 0-)

        If it's your corporate executive, you know very well that his $5,000,000 bonus is coming out of the reported profits before your 2% of W-2 earnings even gets calculated. Not number too big to grasp at all.

        Theocracy is tyranny

        by Druidica on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 10:02:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  We lost the language war (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jrcjr

      Why there has been no general populist movement in this country in face of this economic rape is something that continually baffles me.

      The Republicans framed the debate as Democrats are trying to punish the rich for their hard work and  success. Democrats need to change the terms of the debate by perhaps saying Republicans are punishing workers by not raising the minimum wage, or similar arguments.

      Imo, the language we use, is just as, if not more important as the issues themselves, since the majority of Americans support most of the issues we support, if the polls are correct.

  •  So Bonddad what you are saying is that the (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Webster

    GOP still believes there is a pony in the room....

  •  economists who believe in supply-side (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Dauphin, godislove

    Bonddad--Are there many economists out there who support the idea of applying supply-side economics in America?  Or do they primarily exist in right-wing or GOP think tanks?

    I've long suspected it's like their scientists that don't believe in global warming.  Sure, there are some out there, but they have to search long and hard for them.  Do you know if that's the case?

    •  are corrupt, rich, greedy wing-nuts (6+ / 0-)

      You asked Bondad, but I think the answer is pretty clear, these are EXACTLY the same sort of "scientists" who will say (for a fee) that:

      smoking is good for you

      global warming is not happening

      global warming may be happening, and if so it is good

      cuts in tax rates will be "good for the economy" (actually good for the pockets of the greedy rich)

      War is peace

      Bush is smart

      Total liars, sell outs for money.

      •  I've heard that there are legitimate (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Allogenes

        uses of supply-side, such as in a closed small economy with 65% tax rates, but I've wondered who would apply it to the US.

        I suspect you're right.

      •  I believe (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        New Deal democrat

        that smoking is bad for you.

        That global warming is happening although there is still a scientific debate over how quickly, what the causalities of it are and a political/economic debate over what we should be doing about it.

        That some tax cuts can be good for the economy

        That only peace is peace.

        That Bush is smarter than most people give him credit for, (after all he did make better grades at Yale than Kerry did) but being smarter than Kerry is a low hurdle for comparison.

        And that we all work for money, but that doesn't make us all liars.

        I also believe the use of the term 'supply side economics' has been badly misused going back to Reagan.

        Adam Smith was the original supply sider, but the idea was best expressed by JB Say, a Frenchman, in what became known as Say's Law. Simply stated, Say's Law was that:  Supply creates its own demand.

        Hence if you wanted a growing economy, you pursued policies that would create supply by giving incentives to producers.

        For example: want more health care at a lower cost: focus on increasing the supply of health care and not how you pay for it.

        Want more investment, provide tax incentives for investment.

        Want less consumption, impose a value added tax on consumer spending.

        Mindlessly giving away tax breaks without regard to their effect on the supply side of the economy is not supply side economics. Its political cronyism at its worst.

        •  Supply side tax cuts make sense (0+ / 0-)

          imho, in era of high inflation.  Thus (leaving aside who got how much) Reagan's supply-side tax cuts early in the 80s made a lot of sense.

          In a low-inflation era, where money is sloshing around financial markets with producers unable to find a worthwhile reason to spend, supply-side tax cuts (again imho) are toxic.  That is exactly the time when the preferred stimulus ought to be to "put the jam on the bottom shelf where the little man can reach it", in the words of the late Texas Sen. Yarborough.

          "When the going gets tough, the tough get 'too big to fail'."

          by New Deal democrat on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 10:59:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We are in agreement here. (0+ / 0-)

            What we have here is another example of the abuse of the term 'supply side'. There is no need to stimulate the supply side at this point in the long term economic cycle. The economic problems today are very different from what they were in 1980 and the tax solutions need to be very different as well.

    •  There are many who believe in some form of supply (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      elfling, Dauphin, brown4160, Allogenes

      side.  The question is not whether reducing rates from 70+% to 40-50% is good for the economy, but whether reducing those top rates from 40% to 33% has any further effect (which it probably doesn't) that benefits the economy as a whole.  

      •  right (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        brown4160, Allogenes

        that's my question!

        who pushes this theory besides politicians?

        •  many economists would say that (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Dauphin, brown4160, Allogenes

          decreasing very high marginal rates is good for the econmy and will in fact generate more revenue over time (of course this cannot be studied), but the real question is when the decreases stop paying off.  This is the real meaning of the Laffer Curve, the thing everyone ignores is that Laffer drew a bell curve, which means that at some point too low of a rate will decrease revenures.

          •  "supply side" econ can be studied (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            TomP

            Walk down the hall to the psychology department.  Ask to speak with the professor who teaches experimental psychology -- or for that  matter, any of the undergraduate sophomores in their class.  Explain the theory of 'supply side' tax cuts.  Within about 15 minutes you'll have a good first draft of a bunch of good, valid experiments that can test same.

            "When the going gets tough, the tough get 'too big to fail'."

            by New Deal democrat on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 07:04:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Failure? (3+ / 0-)

    It seems to me that it succeeds in exactly what it is supposed to be doing:

    It draw money out of the middle and working classes and into the investment class.

    "Truck Stop Women," a New Film By Phil Gramm and John McCain.

    by bink on Wed Dec 13, 2006 at 06:27:17 AM PDT