Daily Kos

Wow! Lookee! A Value-For-Money Military!

Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 05:13:54 AM PDT

The United States spends $1,549 per capita on its military (population 298,213,000).  

Iran spends just $91 per capita on its military (population 69,515,000).  And yet we are told that Iran poses the most formidable threat to the United States of America at this moment.

I wish we had some Iranian military budget planners working for our side!  Think what we could do with all the money we'd save!  Free primary, secondary and higher education for all students (as in Iran).  Free universal public healthcare for children (as in Iran).  

Iranian efficiency at military development and defense is totally awesome when compared to the USA.  Despite spending only $6.2 billion annually and suffering from restrictive sanctions limiting their procurement, Iran has developed a truly formidable defense capability.

The Iranian military is so formidable, in US military war games in 2002 the Iranians kicked US butt - sinking 16 US Navy vessels including an aircraft carrier - until Rumsfeld suspended the games and made the bad guys follow a script ensuring US victory.

One event that shocked Van Riper occurred in 2002 when he was asked, as he had been before, to play the commander of an enemy Red Force in a huge $250 million three-week war game titled Millennium Challenge 2002. It was widely advertised as the best kind of such exercises -- a free-play unscripted test of some of the Pentagon's and Rumsfeld's fondest ideas and theories.

Though fictional names were applied, it involved a crisis moving toward war in the Persian Gulf and in actuality was a barely veiled test of an invasion of Iran.

In the computer-controlled game, a flotilla of Navy warships and Marine amphibious warfare ships steamed into the Persian Gulf for what Van Riper assumed would be a pre-emptive strike against the country he was defending.

Van Riper resolved to strike first and unconventionally using fast patrol boats and converted pleasure boats fitted with ship-to-ship missiles as well as first generation shore-launched anti-ship cruise missiles. He packed small boats and small propeller aircraft with explosives for one mass wave of suicide attacks against the Blue fleet. Last, the general shut down all radio traffic and sent commands by motorcycle messengers, beyond the reach of the code-breakers.

At the appointed hour he sent hundreds of missiles screaming into the fleet, and dozens of kamikaze boats and planes plunging into the Navy ships in a simultaneous sneak attack that overwhelmed the Navy's much-vaunted defenses based on its Aegis cruisers and their radar controlled Gatling guns.

When the figurative smoke cleared it was found that the Red Forces had sunk 16 Navy ships, including an aircraft carrier. Thousands of Marines and sailors were dead.

The referees stopped the game, which is normal when a victory is won so early. Van Riper assumed that the Blue Force would draw new, better plans and the free play war games would resume.

Instead he learned that the war game was now following a script drafted to ensure a Blue Force victory: He was ordered to turn on all his anti-aircraft radar so it could be destroyed and he was told his forces would not be allowed to shoot down any of the aircraft bringing Blue Force troops ashore.

Heck, we probably did the Iranians a favor when we isolated them from the biggest international arms markets.  It used to be that they bought almost all their hardware from the United States.  Even after the revolution, they still bought most of what they needed from the United States via Israeli middlemen and Reagan's lunatics like Ollie North.  When we started getting tough, we forced Iran to self-sufficiency.

Now Iran is almost entirely self-sufficient for its frigates, submarines, tanks, jet fighters, ballistic missiles, small arms, artillery and armour.  Iran now claims to be among the top six countries in the world in missile production, able to produce missiles to defeat any attack platform likely to be used against it.

And it seems that self-sufficiency is a lot cheaper than buying from the US or other merchants of death, so I guess they'll be sticking with that strategy.

I know those ayatollahs are pure evil, and that Iranians wish they were suffering the brutal repression they enjoyed under the Shah instead, but it's not all bad.  Who would have guessed that those woman-hating ayatollahs would have promoted universal female education to the extent that enrollment rates for girls are almost equal to boys at 97 percent, and post-revolutionary women are marrying later, having fewer children and getting better educational and professional opportunities.  Public health statistics have improved to the point where 93 percent have safe drinking water and 98 percent have safe sewerage.  

No doubt Iranians would be happy to trade all that civil infrastructure, education, healthcare and opportunity for the joys of democracy as they see it exercised in neighbouring Iraq.  Heck, they'll probably just throw down all those missiles, air defenses, gun boats and RPGs as soon as our boys and girls start bombing and invading, welcoming them with sweets and flowers.  

I just hope that if we do go to war with Iran we capture some of their military planners.  If we followed their strategies for procurement and defense rationalisation and got our budget down to $91 per person, we might actually be able to improve civil infrastructure, education and healthcare for Americans over the next 20 years as much as the ayatollahs have done for Iranians.  

Tags: Iran, military, education, health care, infrastructure, Recommended (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 129 comments

  •  Very amusing... (26+ / 0-)

    Unfortunately, your diary contains a very big grain of truth.  Of course, the Iranians do not have to contend with earmarks, do you think?:)

    Excellent food for thought.  Cheers:)

    Life is not a 'dress rehearsal'!

    by wgard on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 05:17:07 AM PDT

  •  Leave a tip jar, damn you! (9+ / 0-)

    So what you are saying is that the US should try to get the Iranian military to adopt the Pentagon way of using money? Brilliant strategy. Of course the ever rising price of oil brings ever more money to the Mullahs in Teheran..

    Popular Vote theory= "teh stupid"

    by allmost liberal european on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 05:28:13 AM PDT

  •  great diary LondonYank (11+ / 0-)

    It probably has something to do with the fact that we've got enough nukes stored up to blow up the world 12 times over (nevermind the fact that we only have 1 world and I for one would rather not blow it up). Cuz you know they don't spend all that cash on body armor.

    •  But CNBC broadcasts stock tips (15+ / 0-)

      that the wars are good for our defense contractors' earnings per share.  No love for our war profiteers? {snark}

      -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

      by sunbro on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 05:41:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What about maintenance & development? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm sure that just maintaining our current arsenal (and the technology behind it) is costing us a ton as well.

        Also, Iran is in the business of acquiring hardware only after some country (like ours) that has the resources ($ and people) develops and tests that hardware.  I'm sure R&D in Iran is a speck compared to the kind of R&D we do for our military.

        How does that hit the per capita?

        "The political system, including elections, is carefully managed to prevent the threat of democracy."  ~Noam Chomsky

        -5.25, -4.87

        by cotasm on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 08:38:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What about maintenance & development? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm sure that just maintaining our current arsenal (and the technology behind it) is costing us a ton as well.

        Also, Iran is in the business of acquiring hardware only after some country (like ours) that has the resources ($ and people) develops and tests that hardware.  I'm sure R&D in Iran is a speck compared to the kind of R&D we do for our military.

        How does that hit the per capita?

        "The political system, including elections, is carefully managed to prevent the threat of democracy."  ~Noam Chomsky

        -5.25, -4.87

        by cotasm on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 08:38:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What about maintenance & development? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm sure that just maintaining our current arsenal (and the technology behind it) is costing us a ton as well.

        Also, Iran is in the business of acquiring hardware only after some country (like ours) that has the resources ($ and people) develops and tests that hardware.  I'm sure R&D in Iran is a speck compared to the kind of R&D we do for our military.

        How does that hit the per capita?

        "The political system, including elections, is carefully managed to prevent the threat of democracy."  ~Noam Chomsky

        -5.25, -4.87

        by cotasm on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 08:38:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What about maintenance & development? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm sure that just maintaining our current arsenal (and the technology behind it) is costing us a ton as well.

        Also, Iran is in the business of acquiring hardware only after some country (like ours) that has the resources ($ and people) develops and tests that hardware.  I'm sure R&D in Iran is a speck compared to the kind of R&D we do for our military.

        How does that hit the per capita?

        "The political system, including elections, is carefully managed to prevent the threat of democracy."  ~Noam Chomsky

        -5.25, -4.87

        by cotasm on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 08:41:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What about maintenance & development? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm sure that just maintaining our current arsenal (and the technology behind it) is costing us a ton as well.

        Also, Iran is in the business of acquiring hardware only after some country (like ours) that has the resources ($ and people) develops and tests that hardware.  I'm sure R&D in Iran is a speck compared to the kind of R&D we do for our military.

        How does that hit the per capita?

        "The political system, including elections, is carefully managed to prevent the threat of democracy."  ~Noam Chomsky

        -5.25, -4.87

        by cotasm on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 08:41:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What about maintenance & development? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm sure that just maintaining our current arsenal (and the technology behind it) is costing us a ton as well.

        Also, Iran is in the business of acquiring hardware only after some country (like ours) that has the resources ($ and people) develops and tests that hardware.  I'm sure R&D in Iran is a speck compared to the kind of R&D we do for our military.

        How does that hit the per capita?

        "The political system, including elections, is carefully managed to prevent the threat of democracy."  ~Noam Chomsky

        -5.25, -4.87

        by cotasm on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 08:58:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What about maintenance & development? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm sure that just maintaining our current arsenal (and the technology behind it) is costing us a ton as well.

        Also, Iran is in the business of acquiring hardware only after some country (like ours) that has the resources ($ and people) develops and tests that hardware.  I'm sure R&D in Iran is a speck compared to the kind of R&D we do for our military.

        How does that hit the per capita?

        "The political system, including elections, is carefully managed to prevent the threat of democracy."  ~Noam Chomsky

        -5.25, -4.87

        by cotasm on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 09:09:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, nukes are cheap. (11+ / 0-)

      Conventional weapon systems, training, and most importantly SALARIES are expensive.

      Best regards,

      "Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand" -- Homer Simpson

      by USAFguy on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 08:06:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Huge blind spot (25+ / 0-)

    America (and Canada, unfortunately) has a huge blind spot when it comes to modern warfare. Of course countries like Afghanistan, Iran, and groups like Al Qaeda and the Taliban, are going to use guerrilla tactics.

    They're not stupid, and they know they have no other option to deal with a large, well-armed and well-trained force.

    If we were smart, we would work on diplomatic relations rather than conventional war tactics.

    But, as Jimmy Carter says in Our Endangered Values, Bush has sabotaged many diplomatic initiatives around the world.

    The Next Agenda a dkos-style blog for Canadian politics

    by Thursday Next on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 05:41:11 AM PDT

  •  If the Bushistas do attack Iran... (5+ / 0-)

    they may get a heaping dose of just what they deserve.  Of course everybody else in the world will be getting screwed as usual.

    Nice work on a very interesting diary LY!

    Recommended.

    "The truth shall set you free - but first it'll piss you off." Gloria Steinem

    Iraq Moratorium

    by One Pissed Off Liberal on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 05:55:20 AM PDT

    •  Our dead pilots, sailors and soliders will get (17+ / 0-)

      the blowback, not the rich fat cats with stock options in their defense portfolios who steer Bushista policies.  Only if they stand trial at the Hague for war crimes is it possible that the Bushistas get what they deserve, and I'm not holding my breath for that.

      "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" - Abraham Lincoln

      by LondonYank on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 05:57:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Can't agree with that sentiment (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      LondonYank

      I just can't agree with that sentiment because they will not get what they deserve.  We will suffer, ordinary people in the Middle East will suffer, but the ones at the top will not.

      What they deserve is to be removed from power, and to be held accountable for their reckless, destructive actions.

      If we get involved in a war with Iran, it will be just another tragedy for all the real people involved on both sides, as you mentioned.  We'll pay, the leaders will remain safe and monied.

      I think we've learned a lot lately about how vulnerable we are to unconventional warfare.  But I also think that people are showing too much confidence in Iran in this diary.  Van Riper was a U.S. military expert, a Lt. General from the Marine Corps University, not an Iranian military leader.  And if our military took a significant hit, I really fear for what would happen if they completely took the gloves off.

      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." --Samuel Johnson

      by joanneleon on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 01:41:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A few months ago (13+ / 0-)

    I posted a similar diary with the top 10 military spending nations and how far ahead the US was.

    The diary has some nifty charts and pie charts.. mmmm... pie

    The Shock and Awe of Military Spending

    Weird enough, the second highest per capita military spending is France, with about $775.

  •  That is one of the funniest things (7+ / 0-)

    I have read in awhile.

    Thank-God Democrats have a sense of humor.

    "You think you can intimidate me? Screw you. Choose your Weapon." Eliot Spitzer

    by bonddad on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 06:06:01 AM PDT

  •  I'm not holding my breath either... (8+ / 0-)

    but I'm not giving up hope.

    Only if they stand trial at the Hague for war crimes is it possible that the Bushistas get what they deserve, and I'm not holding my breath for that.

    I will never again feel contentment or satisfaction until I see this with my own eyes.

    A Nuremberg chief prosecutor says there is a case for trying Bush for the 'supreme crime against humanity, an illegal war of aggression against a sovereign nation.'

    Could Bush Be Prosecuted for War Crimes?

    Until we bring these bastards to trial we will owe a solemn and unpaid debt to the world.

    "The truth shall set you free - but first it'll piss you off." Gloria Steinem

    Iraq Moratorium

    by One Pissed Off Liberal on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 06:06:37 AM PDT

  •  I remember that story (2+ / 0-)

    After reading the first paragraph I recalled that story being published in the Washington Post. Talk about unconventional war fare and using what assets you have to your advantage: It was perfect. In 1988 during what was then called Re forger: A joint NATO military exercise held each fall in Germany a similar situation occurred involving ground forces. In this case the Blue force "The allies" was opposing the Red Force " The Warsaw Pact" which was much larger: Lost the battle in 3 days of which was supposed to have been a 5 day war game.

  •  Three Points (5+ / 0-)

    The Blue Force was playing within guidelines that makes taking out suicides difficult.  With relaxed restrictions, civilian casualties go way up but he could have defended the task force better.  But we don’t commit war crimes. Go ahead and flame.  But that’s what the description of the war game comes down to.  The Red Force used “illegal combatants” while the Blue force restrained from taking out everything in sight.

    Second, it is a good thing for us that they are in the arms race business.  It will be detrimental in the long run if it takes away from other infrastructure expenditures. Remember, the money invested in weapons is intended for destruction.  That is, weapons have very little long term value.  So the real question is defense versus other expenditures.

    Third you are very much on target that our expenditures on a meaningless war and useless military systems is dreadful.  It is hurting us big time.

    Do the right thing 'cause it feels better.

    by John Boy on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 06:54:05 AM PDT

    •  you may be right (5+ / 0-)

      that the Blue team was playing by the rules when they got wholloped. But what kind of Defense Sec. would war game the other team by rules that politically he admits our enemies don't recognize in real life? A myopic one blinded by his own hubris? One that just can't stand to be proven wrong and ineffective?

      Please. If Rumsfeld isn't creative enough to learn a lesson from that exercise then we have serious failures of leadership at the top of the Pentagon. (big surprise.)

      Also, I think your second point misses the point that Iran has been capable of establishing quite enviable civil infrastructure and social programming AS WELL AS an enviable and self-sufficient military defense for pennies on the dollar compared to what other nations spend. All in a restrictive global environment that has forced them to be creative and resourceful. If we fuck with Iran we are going to get stung very hard in ways that will SHOCK. Repeatedly. For YEARS. And they will not be playing by the "RULES".

      SO if Rummy has to win on paper we lose for poor planning and hubris in real life. Oh, sure. We could probably devastate Iran in a real confrontation. But only through massive bombing. 'Cause we don't have the troops for the ground. Because we went to Iraq. So unless we reinstate the draft (which is coming, eventually) it has to be by air. And that means massive collateral damage. Dead babies and women and old people. And despite what the politicians and talking heads and military planners might say, those are, in real practice, crimes of war.

      BTW, we are so undereducated and unaware in America of how other countries live that it would shock many Americans to know that Iran has such standards of civilized society. Do we have clean water and sewage in the 90% zone in our country? Whose literacy rate is higher, USA or Iran? Whose standard of living is higher across the board? How about poverty figures? See, we have a lot of things in America that are the envy of the world (or used to be). One thing we DO NOT HAVE in general is awareness of others in this world. We are like the spoiled only child. We have never gotten past that stage in our development where the whole world revolves around us.

      ...and now that I'm cooking with THAT line of seasoning...

      by bastrop on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 08:11:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Clarification (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        LondonYank, Iberian, snacksandpop

        No doubt Rumsfeld is a fool.  My comments are to mitigate fears that we are defenseless.  The sailors onboard the ships deserve to know there is a way to survive, and bluntly it is to kill everything that comes near.  I would hope Rumsfeld would realize that to get an even footing in such a war, we would have to be so ruthless that the world might rally to Iran’s side.  But I doubt it.

        The second point was more along the lines of absolute spending numbers are not adequate to predict who will go broke first.  It’s not a per capita number; it is more like % of GDP that matters.  I assume our % is higher, but probably not as bad as the per capita numbers suggest.  Just trying to clear some murky water here.

        I agree, the general public does not know the standards of living of the rest of the world is very true.  Much of Europe has a higher standard, especially when you factor in health care.  But the analyst within the intelligence agencies are not so ignorant.  You won’t see defense spending in absolute terms as a point of cross country comparison, even in the spin based public assessments.  But in the same way the Fed looks at debt as a percentage of GDP, not a per capita, defense spending as % of GDP should be consider as a factor in effecting future economic growth.

        It is rarely mentioned, but Japan’s and Germany’s economic growth is in part a result of relying on us for defense.  Do you recall that Bush I got money from Japan and Germany for the first Iraqi war?  

        Rumsfeld, and other neocons, as you say, in their hubris are threading on dangerous ground.  They are also digging a hole that will take some time to get of.  Of course they are counting on the inflation caused by gas prices to alleviate some of this debt.  An Iranian adventure might cause a world wide economic collapse, if not a nuclear war.  It is big time dumb to contemplate such an adventure. And it would accomplish nothing accept more hatred of America.

        Do the right thing 'cause it feels better.

        by John Boy on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 09:04:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        LondonYank, Iberian

        Most Americans are surprised to learn that Europeans have cell phones and internet access, let alone hospitals often better than ours, and way more accessible.

        Iran is a democracy - not like ours, but a democracy nonetheless - with a duly elected government.

        Women have educations, jobs, the country just has cultural norms that aren't ours. Big whoop.

        It's THEIR country.

  •  Iran Doesn't Have to Defend Itself Against (0+ / 0-)

    the Nazis, the USSR and a massive Chinese ICBM first strike.

    We do.

    We don't actually face those threats. We just have to defend against them.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 06:54:07 AM PDT

  •  What? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    LondonYank, snacksandpop, Hannibal

    Is LondonYank trying to be serious or funny? I can't tell by reading it.

    Mostly because it is insanely stupid. Reminds me of the type of armchair military analysis on CNN prior to Gulf War I.

    Lets seriously hope there is never war between the US and Iran, because I don't think people understand how many people will die if the US ever unleashes the complete arsenal of the US military, as opposed to the extremely limited arsenal used in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

    In 1990, Iraq was considered to have the most powerful military in the Middle East too, and 100,000+ Iraqi's died to a US military that has become many, many times more lethal since that war.

    I think it is pretty stupid to trivialize the incredible firepower the US military represents, because if you don't understand the magnitude of destruction possible, and I'm not even talking nuclear, then I think it trivializes the magnitude of death likely to any country the US engages in an all out war.

    The military is built to be a deterrent to war; it just isn't used like one under this administration. Misunderstanding that point is the path of blissful ignorance.

    •  SOH failure? I am both funny and serious. (8+ / 0-)

      I am despairing of stopping the next war of senseless aggression against Iran and Syria.  It is clear to me that the Israeli invasion of Lebanon has as its sole purpose providing a pretext for launching the wider war.  

      Bush & Co. (the PNAC crowd) have always had as a primary objective securing the Khuzestan oil fields from Iran (with 90 percent of Iranian proven reserves) and gaining a pipeline from Iran and Iraq through Syria to the Mediterranean to provide oil security to Israel and avoid the security bottleneck of the Arabian Gulf shipping route.

      I have been angry for a week about this, but a serious diary would not have made the Recommended List or been as much of a wake up call to so many as a bit of snark.  

      You get more Kossacks with snark than you do with vinegar, Raymond P, and I am veteran enough to use what works.

      "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" - Abraham Lincoln

      by LondonYank on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 07:04:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Recommended (5+ / 0-)

        I share your concerns completely.

        I am yet convinced if this is an administration attempt to start a war, or if there is an outside element attempting to engage us in a war, but I agree completely that there are devious minds at work here that want the US engaged in another war.

        I am yet to be convinced the Iranian President and Mullahs aren't as insane as Bush and his neo-con windbags. It has been my observation they are men of the same mold as the western neo-cons, because they also use words that don't match actions. From my perspective, the combination of Iran and the US right now is an elixir with dangerous combustible consequences, and the elixir is igniting everywhere the US has influence in that region (Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan).

        Coincidence? I don’t think so.

        •  60+ years from last big war: no coincidence (7+ / 0-)

          I do not believe that the mentality of the neocons and the mullahs (or for that matter the Chinese beeligerants) is happening now by chance.  All of the people with a first-person recollection of what war between major industrial powers looks like, have passed away.  Those who did not witness the devastation firsthand in their own lives are more likely to slouch into the next catastrophe.

          "When the going gets tough, the tough get 'too big to fail'."

          by New Deal democrat on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 07:24:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Shouldn't military force (2+ / 0-)

      be considered as part of an overall foreign policy strategy? Not a foreign policy on its own?

      Have you been on vacation and missed the events of the past few days? Bill Kristol, (remember him?), is advocating war with Iran. Last time around he and his buddies (PNAC etc.) were quite successful in convincing this administration.

      •  Absolutely (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        paul2port

        I am in complete agreement that Kristol and crowd are dangerous, however I don't see them as the only dangerous element involved in the events taking place in the Middle East.

        While we can certainly choose different options than Kristols, I'm not convinced the Iranian's don't want war. I considered Iranian actions towards the IAEA, control of Hezbollah, and threats of Israel as empty rhetoric until last week when this war started, now I'm not so sure anymore.

        •  Iran has politics too... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Raymond P

          ...and whatever posturing you may be seeing by them is as much a product of others bloviating against them as it is some inherent, inevitable character of Iranian foreign policy. Part and parcel of the strategy being employed here is to threaten a subject nation, overtly and covertly, until it begins behaving as societies under threat do, which can then become itself a causus belli. See LondonYank's PsyOps diary for more.

          Slap it. Shoot it. Kaboot it.

          by adios on Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 09:38:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It is both sides (0+ / 0-)

            I see it as both sides. There has been plenty of midnight oil burned