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I think I'm speaking for almost everybody here when I say that I unequivocally condemn the attempted assassination of Vice President Cheney in Afghanistan and that any person responsible for this cowardly act should be jailed for life at a minimum.

Notwithstanding my condemnation, there is an organized attempt by Republicans and their talk show minions to try and portray "The Left" (Defined as anyone who disagrees with a conservative at least 10% of the time.) as wild eyed radicals who wish Cheney had been assassinated.  That's bullshit!

We are not the people who call for killing innocent people.  The Right has a monopoly on that.

If you oppose killing an innocent person, say so.  If somebody in your party says something along these lines, denounce them or I will presume that you support them by default.

It's Ann Coulter who openly contemplates assassinating President Clinton or poisoning Justice STeven's creme brulee?  Why has the GOP been silent?

It's Sean Hannity who basically calls for a jihad and tells his listeners that stopping Nancy Pelosi is worth dying for?  Why has the GOP been silent?

It's conservative Glenn Beck who openly advocates killing anybody he deems liberal.  Why has the GOP been silent?

It's Bill O'Reilly who advocates jailing people he deems "secular humanists."  Why has the GOP been silent?

It's Rush Limbaugh who has advocated nuking much of the world and killing billions of innocent people.  Why has the GOP been silent?

I'm putting my money where my mouth is by denouncing A)  the attacks on Cheney and B)  any person who openly wishes they were successful.

But will Republicans do the same?  Put up or shut up.  If you support Fox News while Hannity, Malkin, Coulter, or O'Reilly are still employed there, despite their terroristic comments of the past, then shut up because you have no right to denounce anyone.

So what will you Republicans do?  Will you denounce your terrorist hate mongers like Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Beck, and Coulter OR still support them when they talk like Osama Bin Laden.

Originally posted to davefromqueens on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:26 PM PST.

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    Don't let the Right Swiftboat us with a lie and smear.  All the talking points you need can be found herein.

    •  We have to be prepared to hit back (55+ / 0-)
      Even the most timid remark from someone on the left will be endlessly paraded out and overblown by the right to a breathlessly willing media who blow it up while remarks a hundred times worse from the right are totally ignored. Threatening people who disagree with them with death, either veiled or openly, has been a tactic of many of the big names on the right for years and they need to be called out over and over and over on this. Me, I'm a consistent pacifist and I have no wish to see Dick Cheney dead. I long to see him behind bars.

      A new beginning for Ohio: The adults have taken over!

      by anastasia p on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:43:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  we hit back (58+ / 0-)

        A)  By making it clear where we stand.
        B)  Pointing out the comments of prominent Right Wing Republicans.
        C)  Demanding these people be fired.
        D)  Constantly bringing up these quotes whenever ANY republican (or Holy Joe) grovels to these sickos.

        •  Yes!!! Critical to say we don't do that - (41+ / 0-)

          like THESE people.

          I also recall a quote from that bastion of Republicanism Jesse Helms:

          "Mr. Clinton better watch out if he comes down here. He’d better have a bodyguard."

          Of course "Mr." Clinton was President Clinton and Jesse Helms - well I suppose he was just speaking for his constituents - or was he? Didn't hear to much outcry...

          •  I condemn this Violence but Cheney Isn't Innocent (115+ / 0-)

            He was behind the war in Iraq which has killed tens to hundreds of thousands of innocents depending on your sources. I believe he should be impeached and tried for his crimes which include violating the Geneva conventions and leading America into an illegal war based on lies. I believe in the rule of law, not indefinite detention and black planes flying into the night to kidnap people for torture in foreign countries.

            As someone completely opposed to violence I condemn the attack on Vice President Cheney. But don't call him innocent. That is absurd.

            "It's the planet, stupid."

            by FishOutofWater on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:10:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Amen. (11+ / 0-)

              I posted a similar comment way down.

              "I am awash in goddesses!"

              by Marc in KS on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:00:27 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  At First I thought A Patriot General Attacked (5+ / 1-)


                I mean, I thought that maybe it wasn't a terrorist after all. Maybe it was one of those Generals who threatened to resign if the Cheney administration attacked Iran.

                My first thought was too bad he missed. My second thought was maybe it wasn't a terrorist. Maybe it was a patriot. My third thought was maybe it was one of those Generals. My fourth thought said, naw, that would be too good of a story to be true: Kind of like Hitler's Generals going after him, that sort of thing.

                The guy, Cheney, is positively insane.  From Iraq having nuclear weapons and ties to Al Qaida, to being greated as liberators, to telling John Edwards he had never seen him before, live on television to the American public during the debates, to last throws, to British leaving Iraq being a sign of success, the guy has never been right, not once, and is completey bonkers. And he's in the driver seat.  You gotta believe some of the generals walking around him think he needs to be removed, impeached or whatever.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if someone in the military or higher up in government, just bit the bullet, and attempted to take Cheney out. And if they did something like that, it would be while he was in some place like the Middle East or Afghanistan or something like that.  

                If Cheney were gone the equation would change compeletely.  No one is going to impeach Bush just so Cheney can become president. In fact, Cheney is Bush's greatest security protection. Bush doesn't need secret service protection - no one in their right mind would shoot Bush so that Cheney could then become president. That would be insane. If Cheney were shot, congress would Impeach Bush in a fortnight, and boom, just like that Polosi would be President.

                •  Are you then saying you (0+ / 0-)

                  don't oppose and denounce the assassination attempt?

                  •  There wasn't one (13+ / 0-)

                    There was a bombing that happened while Cheney was vaguely in the vicinity. Unless the Taliban has people within our compounds, they just took credit for the 'attempted assassination' after they found out that he was in the compound.

                    •  Anyway, Conservatives speak figuratively, (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      freelunch, Little Lulu, greenearth

                      but Liberals mean it! So when Coulter speaks of killing the leaders and converting everyone to Christianity, she's just speaking figuratively.  When Frank Gaffney speaks about hanging journalists who expose the Administration's dirty secrets, he doesn't really mean it.  He's just expressing how he feels.  And when Pat Robertson espouses assassinating Hugo Chavez, or Jonah Goldberg speaks of assassinating Iranian scientists, they are just speaking in hyperbole.

                      But haven't you heard?

                      LIBERALS REALLY MEAN IT!

                      War is not the continuation of politics by other means. On the contrary, it represents a catastrophic failure of political skill and imagination. - Kofi Annan

                      by Arclite on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:45:46 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Actually, I'm guessing the bombing was timed (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Valtin, madgranny, maconblue

                      to coincide with Cheney's arrival and it shows just how out of control Afghanistan really is.

                      And just for the record I do not support any assisination attempts no matter how vile I may perceive a person to be.  I am particularly reviled at the idea that anyone would attempt to change our democratic political system through violent means.

                      •  Yes, we condemn ALL assassination attempts (3+ / 0-)

                        Including those conducted under the auspices of the secret police of Israel, Russia, Pakistan, the United States, Bulgaria, etc. etc.

                        A fantastic book on the issue of political assassinations is Joseph Conrad's classic novel, Under Western Eyes.

                        One should note, there is a difference between assassination attempts conducted by state entities, such as the United States, and assassination attempts by individuals, small groups, or guerilla entities, etc. The former is a repugnant attempt to throw their massive weight around, and amounts to state terrorism. The latter is an act of foolish, and often bloodthirsty despair, born out of political weakness. As such, if in the name of the oppressed, it's sometimes understandable, though NOT supportable.

                        Amazingly, for those of you who do not know the history, the origin of Leninist-style Communism was in the struggle against using political assassinations against the autocratic Tsarist state.

                        Hence, Lenin, circa 1902:

                        ... the only "hope" of the revolution is the "crowd.... there is no salvation from individuals who hunt down ministers!!

                        ... only new forms of the mass movement or the awakening of new sections of the masses to independent struggle really rouses a spirit of struggle in all. Single combat however, inasmuch as it remains single combat waged by the [the Peoples Will terrorist organization], has the immediate effect of simply creating a shortlived sensation, while indirectly it even leads to apathy and passive waiting for the next bout. [Emphases in the original]

                        And, for those who believe the United States has not conducted political assassinations, please peruse, for instance, these declassified documents from the CIA on conducting assassinations in Guatemala; or the Senate Church Committee Report, which makes clear that the U.S. tried to directly assassinate foreign leaders (and also reportedly failed), and also supported others in their kidnapping and assassination activities and/or coup plots.

                        Not too long ago, I wrote extensively on the CIA's own report regarding collusion with the Chilean coup.

                        Never In Our Names

                        "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth."

                        by Valtin on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:07:45 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I am well aware that assasination attempts (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Valtin, greenearth

                          have been carried out sometimes successfully by this government and I make no distinction between them and other thugs around the world who use violence to advance their political objectives.

                          Personally, I think they all suck no matter what their rationalization is.  I really believe (some would argue naively) that there are always options that in the long-term serve our national intersts better than just "offing people" regardless of their guilt or innocence.

                        •  The other thing is my original point (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:

                          about this democracy was made with the assasinations of both John F. & Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King and the notion (all be it naive again) that in a democracy we have non-violent means for changing our leadership and that taking up violent tactics is particularly offensive to me given our freedom to change our government peacefully.

                          Brutal regimes usually fall at the hands of someone else's brutality and that may be partly what we could have seen in Afghanistan with our VP representing "a regime", but within the context of our domestic politics and our domestic political adjustments, I am particularly sensitive about and repelled by the notion of violence when and if it is presented as an option.

                          •  All Charismatic Liberals have been Assassinated (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Valtin, greenearth, Judge Moonbox

                            John F.Kennedy
                            Robert F. Kennedy
                            Martin Luther King
                            Walter Reuther (plane accident of mysterious causes)
                            William J. Clinton (character assasination)

                            Politics is a blood sport.

                            That is how conservatives play it. All those names above are gone.

                            Its not surprising that they reacted to Cheney by thinking Democrats reacted positively to the attempt.

                            Cheney has contributed to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. If some one does the same to him it would appear to me to be a simple case of justice - to him and to conservative movment.

                            Understand this, if Clinton had been flawless, he would have been assassinated by some troubled three named conservative, lee harvey someone, and if Obama gets elected, he has to be weary of the same thing. Nothing frightens the conservatives more than a guy like Obama.  They hate and fear charismatic liberals   and they always become assasinated.

                            The history is there. Not only do they not deny it, they have Ann Coulter spouting how she wished someone would poison a supreme court justice. They are the killers of politicians and statemen. Its no wonder they thought that Democrats might think the same.  

                          •  I get that. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            greenearth, maconblue, Judge Moonbox

                            I still condemn it.  Just because there is an historical precedent for a particular action does not mean that it should be considered acceptable or that we should as liberals or conservatives just think, "Well, that's the way it is."

                            If you really believe in non-violent change and if you really believe in democracy, any violence against political figures no matter how much you despise them should be rejected outright - FULL STOP.

                            That is the only way to maintain a democratic system or for those on the path to building one that is the only way to assure that the cause can succeed.

                            I really miss the Founding Fathers.

                          •  Amen! (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            Let's please not let conservative rancor, their love of rhetorical violence, their determination to gain power whatever the cost to their own humanity, shape us, mold us, spin us into a leftist version of themselves--"today, pasteboard and filigree; and ending tomorrow in madness and murder."

                            They they will have truly won their battle against a democracy of reasonable, reasoning citizens.

                          •  I get that too...but what about Hitler? (0+ / 0-)

                            Was it wrong for the German Generals to try to assasinate him?

                            Would you have celebrate it if they did?

                            If its okay to celebrate Hitler's assassination, why is it not okay to celebrate Cheney's.

                            Where do you draw the line?

                            Your presumption is that this is still a democracy and that democracy put these guys in office.

                            What if the 2000 election was really a coup? Plenty of people believe it was.  I know of one family that thought it was, and when the patriot act passed, they pulled up their stakes and moved to Vancouver British Columbia.  They had foresight.

                            Your position presumes that this country is a democracy.  But what if its not? Is it not time to take up the arms?  What did Jefferson say about that? A little revolution is a good thing from time to time. What if Cheney's assassination is viewed in that light?

                            As for myself, I don't believe that Democratic processes put Cheney in power.  And the 100,000+ dead Iraqi's, the near 10,000 dead Americans, the tens of thousands of Americans wounded or maimed, the trillion dollars squandered for no strategic advantage at all, in fact the reverse, the little jig that Cheney did after Bush signed the bill that took billions away from poor childrens lunches and given to the rich as a tax break,.... all suggest to me that something is rotten in Denmark and that rot is called Bush and Cheney.  And if one of them goes missing, because someone put rat poison in their creme-b'llet (spell?), well excuse me if I do the same jig that Cheney did to celebrate the snatching of poor childrens lunches for tax breaks for the rich.

                            These sorts of policies are precisely how civilizations collapse (See Nobel Prize winning economic historian Douglas C. North's book "Structure and Change in Economic History" on the collapse of the Roman Empire, or the collapse of medieval Japan in to its own dark age, or the collapse of Ancient Egypts New Kingdom, or The Spanish Hapsburs, or the French Bourbons, the Russian romanovs, or Coolidge America which gave birth to the great depression directly paving the way to Hitler's rise, WWII and the Holocaust ... I am talking about what happens to a society that concentrates wealth at the top, it becomes top heavy, and like standing up in a canoe, it tips over).  

                            Cheney is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, and perhaps our democracy is one of them, and I would not let anyone deny me the pleasure of Cheney's passing, if he so did die, even if it was premature. While I could never bring myself to do such an act if alone with him in a room (but then what about alone with him in a hot air balloon and him leaning over the edge....? no, I couldnt do that either) but if someone else did, I would quietly celebrate.  I can't deny that. I don't know Cheney personally, I just know him as an evil doer.  I would be happy if he was gone. Like Saddam, the world would be a far better place if he's not here.  He's an evil, evil man. I couldn't do it my self, but if someone else did, I would be happy. No doubt about that. But, I would be just as happy with a resignation. But after pulling off a coup, I don't see him resigning.  

                          •  What part of the Third Reich was democratic? (0+ / 0-)

                            Hitler's regime was not a democracy by the time they German generals went after him.

                            We have problems and we have problem leaders, but we still have a democracy (for the moment) and we should take advantage of it because the alternatives are grim and destructive means for change - furthermore - the alternatives often lead to worse outcomes that the problem leaders they were used to remove - evidence - Iraq.

                            Productive change takes place gradually.  Two world wars in a hundred years and some people conclude that those eras have offered the only real change the world has seen in the geopolitical arena?  Sheesh.

                            Hitler was the one who thought killing six million people would solve some imaginary "problem" he had.  Hirohito believed that the Japanese should rule the freakin' world and it didn't matter to him if every last Japanese person on the planet had to die for it.  Of course, people who weren't homicidal and suicidal fought back against those peoeple's aggressions.  But there was no other framework left - not diplomatic means, no choice - had there been a democratic framework whereby the insane leaders of Japan and Germany could have been stopped the world at that time would have chosen that route.  Violence was a last resort.  Too bad George Bush has brought more of a Nazi perspective to this country than a democratic perspective.  Everybody is aching for a fight now it seems.  More evidence that violence begets violence.

                            You don't want to live in an America that is plagued by assasinations.  I was born into the era where they became almost normal and even though I was only three years old when MLK was assasinated I remember the tenstion and fear that people lived with at that time.

                          •  Hitler came to power by Democratic means (0+ / 0-)

                            Also he judiciously maintained the enabling acts every four years or so, that legitimized his dictatorship.  What he did was convene the reichstag and have them vote to renew the enabling acts which gave him his dictatorial powers.  

                            In that sense he was always democratic.

                            Hirohito, by the way, was no more politically involved in imperial japan than Queen Elizabeth was invovled in imperial Britain circa 1954.  

                            What we have now in this country is sergical strikes at voilence, an assassination of every liberal with charisma or success by conservatives setting liberalism back ages and advancing conservativism to the point that we have fascism in our government.  

                            This is all played out in Game theory.  You need to read Michigan Economists book "the Evolution of Cooperation" explaining game theory. But when an interative game's end is foreseeable it pays to quit cooperating.  That's what Hitler did in diplomacy in the late 1930s.  That's what the Republicans do to politics.  The only way to bring uncivil uncooperative behavior back inline is "tit for tat".  If you punch me in the nose, I punch you back.  Conservatives punch liberals in the nose, precisiely because they don't think they'll get punched back.  

                            The reason democarcy came about at all was the fact that people were tired of being punched back, so they stopped punching. According to game theory: The assissinations from the right will continue, until their are ones from the left.  I wouldn't advocate for that right off the bat, but i would first draw attention to the fact that thats the way conservatives behave.  

                            This needs to be pointed out loud and clear, because in Barack Obama we have another liberal charismatic talent comming along and if he gains traction there will be a bulls eye on his chest for conservatives.  

                            We need to point out in advance that Conservatives assissinate all successful liberals - to protect and preempt any future attacks on the likes of Obama.

                          •  Hitler did not rule by democratic means and that (0+ / 0-)

                            was my point.  By the time the military coup was launched he was well out of that "democracy thing" by nearly a decade.

                            As for the question of protecting liberal leaders, we need to stop throwing our lot in with one or two people.  This charismatic thing is getting in our way and has done for a long time.  The advantage that conservatives have is that they always have someone else locked and loaded to take up for the guy that came before him.  As Bush fades in popularity and liberals continue to bitch and moan about him, their punditry have already adapted and started saying things like, "Clinton AND Bush did x..." and "Bush is making a mistake like Clinton...".

                            We need to make rightwing violence not matter and the only way that happens is to hold together and move forward no matter what happens to individuals.  That is what will stop them.  If their methods are not effective.

                          •  Oh contrare (0+ / 0-)

                            He came to power by democratic means.

                            Formally, he acted within the powers that the reichstag gave him in the enabling acts.  

                            Then he had them renew those acts every time they were about to expire.  Its the only time the reichstag ever met after first promulgation.

                            Formally he was legal and democratic. Informally, and effectively, he was not.

                            How is that different than Bush/cheney. It is not. If the house votes to end the war, and bush continues it, is he still ruling by democratic means?  The constitution empowers congress to make war, if they can make it, the have the power to end it. If Bush doesn't respect congress, then its the same thing. But he has not ruled by democrated means since he was governor of Texas.

                            I disagree on the charisma thing too.

                            Reagan had charisma, even in his 70s, he was a conservative.  The Republicans are still riding his charisma every time they say government is the problem, etc... If liberals acted like conservatives, Reagan would have been assassinated before he was ever elected, al a RFK.  

                            By the way, Roosevelt was once nearly assassinated, and was also nearly the subject of a coup by wall street conservatives, who enlisted a conservative Marine general, recently retired, who promply exposed the plot. This in 1934 - its out on wikipedia - called, i think, the wall street plot or coup or the business plot or coup something of that sort. Most likely Prescott Bush was involved.  A major theme in Bush's politics was to be the one man who overthrough the new deal and Roosevelt and so go down as the true hero of Repubilan conservativism and the war is meant to give him exagerated powers, as our system affords a war president, mostly for the purpose of undoing the new deal.  

                            And the last liberal republican, Lincoln, was also assassinated by a movement 'conservative' of sorts way back when. If they had thought of it sooner, say by two years, the south would have won its independence - only Lincoln held the union together.  

                            One man makes a difference in history. If Roosevelt dies, no new deal, and maybe Hitler wins WWII. If Churchill dies, then England sues for peace and hitler wins. If Hitler dies, no WWII, and no holocaust. If Kennedy survives, does Vietnam grow or shrink? With no vietnam, no mass demonstrations, and no Nixon ascendancy, no watergate, and maybe no Neocon movement as a result of johnson thrashing goldwater (part of that vote for Johnson being sentimentally motivated by the death of Kennedy - it happened in Missouri recently when the candidate died on the campain trail in 2000 and still managed to get elected even though running against an incumbent and even though the state went to Bush)

                            Bush/cheney are a big threat to our constitution, our way of life, and our democracy. They came to power under circumstances very similar to Hitler's, a few old men behind close doors installed him to avert a constitutional crisis - true for Hitler, true for Bush.  

                            Charisma matters in politics and even in Psuedo Democracies - great movements are thrust ahead on the sholders of such men. That's why conservatives shoot them, and thats why they go ga ga batshit crazy when they get one of their own with charisma, as in Reagan.

                            This isn't just an American phenomina, lots of charismatic liberals are assassinated, in the last fifty years, I can think of one in the Philipeans, Pakistan, Chile to name a few.    

                            As game theory suggests, the only way to arrive at civil behavior is to punch back when you've been punched. There is no alternative. If you punch back the punching eventually stops.

                            I could never do it, and I could never ask someone to do it, but if some one did 'punch' back.  I would celebrate it.  

                            Democracy is only the result of endless punching finally driving parties to non violent means to politics.

                  •  I thought of the situation as war, (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    smintheus, Panda, greenearth

                    not an assassination attempt. That there might be claims of a purposeful attempt does not make it so. In any case, the "assassination attempt" was on our soldiers, lest we forget. But I don't buy the phrase "assassination attempt" and think it's far too soon to label.

                    And Cheney should know this: you are in the war  you've got, not the war you'd like to have (like bombs that kill only your soldiers and not you).

                    Of course, I would be appalled at the killing of anyone. I've lived through the assassinations of JFK, RFK, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. I had no love lost for Reagan, but was horrified at the attempt on his life, and prayed for his full recovery.

                    Suggestion: use our "lefty" handle to our advantage. We a bunch of peace loving, bong-water drinking hippies, right? A bunch of weak-kneed cut & run pacifists, right? We should point out the obvious: that we never want people to die in war. Not even people we don't like.

                    "You can count on Americans to do the right thing after they've tried everything else." -- Winston Churchill

                    by bleeding heart on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:43:06 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  what's the evidence it was an assassination try? (3+ / 0-)

                      There are suicide bombings all the time in Afghanistan now. It's a war zone. Cheney knew that when he entered it.

                      Why rush to assume that the attacker even knew Cheney was present? Just because, after the fact, al Qaeda wanted people to believe it was an assassination attempt?

                      The real story is not that Cheney was briefly inconvenienced. It is that yet more people died as a result of the incessant violence in a war that is spiraling out of control.

                      •  Yes indeed. It was NEAR Cheney, not AT Cheney. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:

                        They should have had that area secured.  So instead, they'd much rather blather about assassination!!!

                        Yeah right.  They's need some silver bullets & a large stake.

                        Next time I tell you someone from Texas should NOT be president of the United States, please pay attention. In Memory of Molly Ivins, 1944-2007

                        by truebeliever on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:57:39 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                •  Be realistic for a second (0+ / 0-)

                  It takes Repug votes to get a 2/3 majority in the Senate to impeach Dubya.

                  Even if we discovered that Dubya was forcing babies to snort cocaine with him, no senatorial Repugs would vote to impeach Dubya if it meant Pelosi became president.

                  Economic -3.50/Social -2.41 "Please don't eat the moderates." (Yes, someone else used that before me, but it's perfect.)

                  by CenterLeft on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:47:45 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  I never said Cheney was innocent (6+ / 0-)

              I was merely agreeing with davefromqueens and anastasia p's points that we highlight their threatening comments to "liberals" and show their hypocrisy.

              Clearly, Cheney should be tried on dozens of crimes up to and including treason for leaking Valerie Plame and Brewster Jennings' identities and strong-arming the intelligence agencies to generate false intelligence used to justify a war.

              I don't know where you think I called Cheney innocent and while I agree wholeheartedly with the content of your comment, as a pointed response to my comment, I find that absurd.

              •  I was agreeing with you and going back (14+ / 0-)

                to comment on the diary here because Cheney's behavior wasn't denounced firmly enough high enough in the responses.

                Republican extremists have threatened and encouraged violence against liberals. As we know from the multiple killings of doctors by anti-abortion lunatics, these threats must be taken seriously. I denounce all violence and threats of violence.

                I lived through the assassinations of John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, and Malcom X.  Those deaths were very damaging to America. I hope and pray that another generation won't have its hopes shattered by political assassinations.

                "It's the planet, stupid."

                by FishOutofWater on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:28:32 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Simple, really. (24+ / 0-)

                An assassination is an extra-judicial killing. As Progressives, unlike those other folks, we're opposed to that.

                They, on the other hand, embrace them when convenient. The so-called Bush "administration" has raised extra-judicial torture, renderings, incarcerations, and killings (cf. Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay) to an art form. If the target had been, say, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, they would be dancing in the streets right now and bemoaning the failure of the attempt; same if it had been Hugo Chavez.

                The Daily Gotham - Blogging the vast leftwing conspiracy in New York

                by MBNYC on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:17:56 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Indeed (7+ / 0-)

                  Aside from the fact that the Taliban most likely were just making an after-the-fact claim of credit since Vice-President Cheney happened to be within a mile of a bombing, I have no use for assassinations, whether by Taliban or CIA or (other) crazy people.

                  Cheney richly deserves to be impeached and tried for his criminal misuse of office and destruction of our country, but assassination is not what any sensible American or Westerner wants, no matter how much contempt they hold Mr. Cheney in.

                  Still, I do find it remarkable that the Vice-President has been helping protect al Qaeda and Taliban forces with the Administrations pro-Sunni decisions. It seems churlish and ungenerous of the Taliban to claim that they are now trying to kill him. Is this also a smoke-screen?

                  •  I don't want Cheney martyred (13+ / 0-)

                    Can you imagine what the extreme right would do if he were to be assassinated. My god there are way to many structures with Ronald Reagan's name on them, I sure don't want to see a proliferation of Richard Cheney this or that buildings or ironic things like Richard Cheney National Park.

                    So no I wouldn't wish Cheney to be assassinated or to even die in office. That would deprive us of the opportunity to prosecute him for the crimes he has committed. I want his and "W's" names shamed. For history to talk of them with derision and scorn. No State Funerals for these two.

                    -4.00 -5.44 "A man who chooses not to read, is just as ignorant as the man who cannot read" Mark Twain

                    by TexDem on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:24:07 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Not the brightest candles on the cake (0+ / 0-)

                    Aside from the fact that the Taliban most likely were just making an after-the-fact claim of credit since Vice-President Cheney happened to be within a mile of a bombing, I have no use for assassinations, whether by Taliban or CIA or (other) crazy people.

                    Cheney richly deserves to be impeached and tried for his criminal misuse of office and destruction of our country, but assassination is not what any sensible American or Westerner wants, no matter how much contempt they hold Mr. Cheney in.

                    Still, I do find it remarkable that the Vice-President has been helping protect al Qaeda and Taliban forces with the Administrations pro-Sunni decisions. It seems churlish and ungenerous of the Taliban to claim that they are now trying to kill him. Is this also a smoke-screen?

                    I don't have any use for killings when a govt has the power to enforce the law. That includes occupied territories where the war should have been over 4 years ago.

                    As for why the Taliban would want to hurt the guys who took the US Army out of Afghanistan because they wanted to go to war in Iraq, that calls into question how bright these people are. Islamic theology preaches that people who commit suicide spend eternity reliving their final moments over and over again. It's like Groundhog Day, but unlike Bill Murray's character, they don't get to apply what they've learned.

                    They've read the Koran where holy warriors are told not to kill the innocent. Yet, they go ahead and commit satanic crimes thinking that if they flatter God enough, He'll overlook all the evil they've done and reward them with 72 virgins in paradise.

                •  If you want to live by the sword.... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  waf8868, lordradish

                  I think you all know how the rest goes....

                  The meek shall inherit nothing. -F.Zappa

                  by cometman on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:38:32 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Ok compromise- On that Internal Defrib (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              macdust, snacksandpop, JRG

              Jail but no 4 doctors trailing behind him and if he gets the best internal defibrillator, it should be available to all US citizens at no cost with a heart condition.

              If the war that he started makes that financially impossible, then he should live like the rest of Americans with minimal health coverage and a ticking time bomb in their chest hoping someone will be around to stop it before it blows.

              Diebold, the hand of God
              Oversize Rants Available Overnight at
              The Image Factory

              by Dburn on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:47:13 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  He IS presumed innocent, until proven otherwise. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              That's our system.  That right is even extended the someone allegedly as despicable as Dick Cheney.

              War is not the continuation of politics by other means. On the contrary, it represents a catastrophic failure of political skill and imagination. - Kofi Annan

              by Arclite on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:35:40 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  he deserves to be punished (0+ / 0-)

              but not like that, I too condemn the attack.

              Cheney should stand trial for all his crimes, which at this point are quite damning. I'm not an advocate of the death penalty either, so offer two options.

              1. Cheney spends the rest of his life in jail, in solitude so he can ponder where he went wrong.
              1. Cheney gets dropped off in some insurgent stronghold in Iraq with and M16 and crappy body armor where he can experience firsthand what he's helped bring upon the region. I don't see this as advocating violence, he should be happy at such an opportunity considering option 1 above.
          •  asdf (16+ / 0-)

            When this happened I called the Secret Service office and reported a threat to the president but when I identified the speaker of the threat as Jesse Helms the agent just laughed and said that's just Jesse. I then asked the agent if the Seret Service would want me to report it to them if I overheard the exact same threat from some guy in a bar and he said "yes". I told him that Jesse shouldn't get a pass just because he is a senator. The Agent said they "would look into it". Yeah, Right.

          •  just another example (0+ / 0-)

            for us to cite whenever this conversation or topic arises.

            •  Please update or delete this diary (5+ / 0-)

              You are perpetuating dubious information by assuming that there really was an assassination attempt.

              A purported Taliban spokesman asserted responsibility for a suicide bomb attack Tuesday at the main U.S. air base in Afghanistan and said it was an attempt to assassinate Vice President Dick Cheney. But U.S. officials disputed the claim, stating that Cheney's overnight stay at the sprawling Bagram Air Base had been unplanned and that he was well away from the blast.

              Essential funk: 'Indictment' by Antibalas

              by pontechango on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:46:09 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  E) Insinuating this report has as much... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          credibility as Iranian-produced weapons story that was rolled out last week.

        •  Er....No.... (4+ / 0-)

          There will always be idiots on one's own side who say intolerable and immoral things.  The problem isn't the idiots, but rather the pseudo-principle of guilt by association.  

          I want to see Dick Cheney hauled before the bar of justice and jailed for his various crimes. I don't want to see him assassinated. The former sentiment is politically controversial, though I'm happy to defend it. The latter, which is not at all controversial, should go without saying. Unless someone--left, right, or center--says otherwise, one ought to assume that he or she is opposed to political assassination. And we shouldn't be shamed into devoting diaries to reaffirming such sentiments.  Doing so simply plays into the notion that because some idiot somewhere praises political assassination, I need to waste time pointing out that I disagree (and that if I don't waste that time, I must share the pro-assassination view).

          There are whole websites devoted to antisemitic flat earth theories (I'm not linking to these assholes, but you can google it). But I don't see us wasting a lot of time writing diaries entitled "We 100% Condemn Antisemitic Flat Earth Theories."

          There should be no need for me to denounce someone who happens to be from my party, from my side of our vague political spectrum, or from among the commentators on a blog that I frequent who also happens to be a moron.  People shouldn't be "held accountable" for the statements of people they don't even know.

          What's sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander. But guilt by the vaguest association ain't sauce.

          Rather than holding GOPers up to this ridiculous "standard" let's denounce the "standard" for what it is: the worst kind of McCarthyist smear tactic.

          But don't listen to me. Glenn Greenwald pretty much hit this one out of the park yesterday.

          For a different perspective, check out Green Commons!

          by GreenSooner on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:28:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  In Addition... (0+ / 0-)

            I meant to also point out that people who actually argue in favor of political assassination, torture, genocide, and so forth of course deserve all the criticism they can get.  And those who actively defend or support such people also deserve to be criticized.

            For a different perspective, check out Green Commons!

            by GreenSooner on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:35:16 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  I don't wish Cheney dead. (14+ / 0-)

        I want him to live a long life of misery like Nixon.

        Also, I wouldn't put it past Cheney to stage an attempt on his own life to gin up sympathy for himself.  He was clearly behind that cockamamie Iran weapons know, the one where the supposed Iranian-produced weapons had the labels written in ENGLISH, with the "dates of production" written in American form!!!  HAHAHA...With all our money, we can't hire 5 people who speak Farsi, and we're supposed to believe that the Iranians label their weapons in English.  Just think about the gunners who are the ones using/loading this shit.  You think they speak English?  HAHAHA...what a fucking joke.  The MSM sure ate that one up.  6 years of this shit and they still haven't learned a goddamn thing.

        Anyway,I would believe any report that Cheney orchestrated this.  Maybe we should hold a briefing with a "Afghan" informant and some documents written in English...  

        •  He needs to be tried for war crimes. (7+ / 0-)

          Not Matyred. I bet Bush ordered the damned hit to A make the fat git look brave, or kill the  fat git to make him a Matyr.

          Or They are spinning it to make it look like he was the target.

          •  Didn't mean to suggest matyrdom. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KenBee, Stripe

            I guess some felt Nixon was a martyr and Nixon certainly felt that way, but he clearly was a troubled man in his later years.

            Would love to see war crimes prosecution for Cheney.  How do we do that?

            And, yeah, they are definitely spinning...

            •  In the big scheme of things, Cheney is no martyr. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              And will not become one, anymore than most tyrants (and he and Bush come as close to becoming one as anyone in U.S. history) are fondly remembered by anyone by a relative handful of deadenders.

              That being said, we are all opposed to assassination, whether the Vice President or tens, hundreds, of thousands of noncombatants in Iraq and elsewhere in the course of this "war on [with?] terror." Not to forget 3100+ U.S. military personnel killed and 40,000+ wounded/injured. None of these people should have died, been place in harm's way, or injured, wounded, or otherwise hurt. Especially all of the children and the helpless. And all in our name of "freedom" and "democracy."

              None of this will change before January 2009; let us make sure that there will be a change at that point. There will be plenty of opportunity for healing, repentance, and compassion; let's make sure we have someone in office reflecting the true will of the people to that end.

              There's a certain circus-like atmosphere to the GOP, but the clowns there don't wear face paint and rubber noses.

              by Superskepticalman on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:09:53 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Nixon wasn't so miserable. (6+ / 0-)

          He made a good living, going around making speeches to the die-hards who still supported him, and they, in turn, made some serious efforts to "rehabilitate" him, in the eyes of history.

          Not exactly a 6x9 cell, or a bread and water diet.  He may have missed the power he once had, but he still lived a pretty cushy life. I did not then, nor do I now, have any sympathy for him.

          If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.~~Lewis Carroll

          by Molly Martinez on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:35:44 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Problem is...the guy doesn't have the conscience (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          maxschell, thingamabob, Panda, blueoasis

          to live miserably.  Wish he could.

    •  Recommended with extreme prejudice (53+ / 0-)

      Furthermore, I troll rate people for that sort of behavior here, and when I do there are usually countless others who have piled on, even if it's a good person we know who has just made a bad joke.  Real journalists would know that.  Good diary, Dave.

      My apologies to students who took my U.S. Government class in the 90s: evidently the Constitution doesn't limit Presidential power after all. Who knew?

      by Major Danby on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:59:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  3 cheers (6+ / 0-)

      for a homeboy.

      Well said.

      "Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play." - Joseph Goebbels

      by gerbbils on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:11:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not a confirmed attempt. (34+ / 0-)

      Cheney's stop last night was not scheduled.  The attack was primarily aimed at U.S. forces - not the V.P.

      The claim that it was an attempt came out only AFTER it was known that the Veep was in the vicinity.  Though  the claim was that the Veep was the target, it probably was a claim to try to take advantage of the timing of his stop.

      If this had been a real and very well thought out attempt, it is highly unlikely that the V.P. would still be anywhere near there.

      He who gives up liberty in exchange for security is deserving of neither

      by joby on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:22:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes. I agree with your principles, Dave. BUT: (7+ / 0-)

        I do NOT believe that this was an actual assasination attempt on Cheney.  It's just being spun that way by interested parties.

        I invite you to read Susan Hu's diary from earlier today.  She unpacked this very well.

        But hell yes, I agree with you in principle.  And the way you said it was right on target.

        "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." -- Abraham Lincoln

        by chumley on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:56:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Remember the attempt on Bush's life (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        There is something in what you say, as the grenade attack against Bush, just one country over from where Cheney was, was obviously much more dangerous and required careful planing.

        Assassination attempts do, however, fail more than they succeed.  We constantly missed high-level targets in Iraq.  The recent poisoning blamed on Russia succeeded, but only while leaving a trail across the UK.  

        I believe that this was timed with Cheney's arrival, as there haven't been that many attacks on that base of late.  It is quite possible that they knew that they would never reach him, but did it knowing that it would get lots of publicity.

        It's really sad that the world still operates in this maner.

    •  I'm definitely against killing the innocent (7+ / 0-)

      but is Cheney innocent? How many deaths is he responsible for? Still, I think his fate should be handled lawfully. But I hardly think he's innocent.

      And I am not for assassinating people . . . which makes me different from Bush Cheny.

      "If religion is the opiate of the masses, then fundamentalism is the amphetamine." Miz Vittitow

      by MillieNeon on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:42:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was thinking the same (6+ / 0-)

        I don't support vigilante justice, but innocent is the last word I would use to describe Cheney.

        We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace -6.63, -6.97

        by amRadioHed on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:55:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't see how it is vigilante justice.... (1+ / 1-)
          Recommended by:
          Hidden by:

          They went after Al Quaeda in Afghanistan....fine.

          Not the smartest or most efficient way to respond to 9/11 but OK.....but then these assholes invaded a sovereign country that had neither the capacity nor the will to harm a single hair on the head of a single american on our soil. Based on a pack of lies.

          If he goes into the war zone that he helped create I say he is fair game. And good riddance to him if he were a casuality of war. The warmonger deserves no less.

          I don't see how you can start a war and then go into the war zone and NOT expect to be a target.

          That being said, I don't think this was an assasination attempt at all but it makes for a more exciting narrative.

          "I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" -Treebeard

          by waf8868 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:42:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh sure... (0+ / 0-)

            all's fair in love and war, or so those involved would claim. Of course war itself is not about justice, it's about might makes right and so it is not entirely dissimilar from vigilantism. If you oppose war in principle than the fact that Cheney was in a war zone of his own making doesn't make it any better.

            We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace -6.63, -6.97

            by amRadioHed on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:13:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  You're right Dave (3+ / 0-)

      Thanks for taking the time to put this together.  I agree with you 100%.  

    •  Count me out. (11+ / 2-)

      There was an assassination attempt on Cheney? Doesn't that strike anyone as ludicrously arrogant? Weren't there any OTHER people at that base? How do we know that suicide bomber even knew Cheney was THERE?

      But, given the benefit of the doubt, assuming it was an actual assassination attempt...

      I don't condemn it.

      I applaud it.

      I wish it had been successful.

      I DO wish him dead.

      I wish he had died 8 years ago; imagine how many more would have been spared senseless death, dismemberments, physical and psychological agonies, had that motherfucker not been given defibrillator after defibrillator.

      If he dies today I'll throw a fucking party.

      •  Be careful what you wish for (5+ / 0-)

        While your anger is both justified and understandable, I think wishing death upon others is not only foolish, but inevitably counterproductive.

        As much as Dick Cheney is the single most hateful actor in this atrocious government (and as much as he perhaps sees himself as the government), he is not alone. From a purely practical point of view it seems very unlikely to me that his sudden death would achieve any thing meaningful or good. His conversion to progressive principles, and acceptance of fundamental justice, on the other hand...

        But this goes beyond the pragmatic wish to avoid martyrdom for a truly bad actor, or for replacing that one actor but retaining the hideous policies, or simply for distracting from the core responsibility for the crimes committed by the administration... No, it gets to the heart of the matter about the nature of justice, and the kind of free society we progressives believe in.

        At least in my case, I honestly do not wish anyone dead. Which is not the same as saying that, if Cheney's influence did not exist, thousands of innocents might have been spared. It is simply an acknowledgment that we must be bound by laws of a higher order: not what's best for me, but what's best for us; not what's best for now, but best in the long run; and not the justice some one might like to mete out, but the justice which serves our common purpose.

        So I don't wish anyone dead for both practical and principled reasons. But that is not to say that I don't wish some had had no influence or impact.

        -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

        by thingamabob on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:34:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, actually... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          trashablanca, jfm

          I consider death the easy way out. Hell, I've been wishing I were dead for the better part of my almost-38 years on the planet.

          So, if I really wanted to wish CHeney harm, I'd wish him a long, LONG life.

          I wish for his death for the sake of the REST of the world.Not to punish him -- I see death as a blessing.

          •  I get that (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            vcmvo2, trashablanca, jfm

            And I'm against his extra-judicial killing for exactly that reason: rather than lead to a kinder, gentler nation of a gazillion points of light, this morning in Amerika, I suspect it would lead to an outpouring of sympathy amongst those on the right who are wavering, followed by even greater rhetoric against all progressives (and therefore progressive principles), and a redoubled effort to prove Cheney right, somehow.

            I'm also against killing, period, other than in self-defense. But I also honestly think it would lead to even more havoc.

            As for punishment, justice demands that he receive some, don't you think?

            (That's rhetorical; I'm pretty sure you agree)

            -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

            by thingamabob on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:06:21 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  msco (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        For Best results, It should be left in the hands of the Supreme being that is watching you!

      •  No tears here... (0+ / 0-)

        Although I wouldn't openly wish for something like that, I wouldn't exactly cry in my beer if it happened. Karma can be a bitch sometimes.

        You can read more of lordradish at five before chaos. But why would you want to?

        by lordradish on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:27:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  No Sugar coating (0+ / 0-)

        I don't think you like him.

        "It's the planet, stupid."

        by FishOutofWater on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:48:05 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  A pointless diary. (5+ / 0-)

      Why did you bother when you must have known it's not even true that "we" %100 condemn Cheney's assassination. At best we 60-75% condemn it and posting about it just means the nutters in the comment section will come out to valiantly (and very bravely!) speak out against your notion that Cheney is innocent and remind the world of how very much our elected officials deserve to die.

      It has nothing to do with innocence, though I realize you thought it was an essential point so that you could tack on some silly gotcha about right wing pundits (by the way, they aren't serious about any of that stuff, which is why they don't end up at Gitmo). The point here is that an attack on government personnel, especially high ranking personnel like Cheney, is an attack on the US of the gravest severity. No citizen worth a damn would go on about how he wishes it were successful. It does not matter how unsavory the target is. If the country or its governmental infrastructure is attacked, it should evoke a very specific and unqualified reaction from all citizens.

    •  has anyone asked who leaked his location (0+ / 0-)

      and the fact he was staying overnight to AQ or whomever made this attempt?

    •  I don't condemn it. (4+ / 0-)

      And I'm not going to say I do. Loathsome as the Taliban are, the US govt invaded their country, overthrew them and continue to occupy their country. It's not difficult to understand that they would want to take out one of the leaders of the nation that deposed them.

      Let me be clear: I deplore the loss of innocent life, such as the guards and civilians who were killed. And I'm not cheerleading the bloody Taliban, who were loathsome before Cheney staged the coup d'état that allowed himself and his puppet into power. But live by the sword, die by the sword: if you're going to invade other countries, you should be prepared for blowback.

      So I, and therefore "we", do not 100% unequivocally condemn the assassination attempt. And I will not be inimidated into silence by you, the Taliban, or the right wing here in America. I will not rally behind Cheney because others are targeting him. I believe that Mr. Cheney is a usurper, a war criminal, a thief on a truly massive scale, and directly and indirectly responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths and injuries. As such, I believe he should be tried for treason, and if found guilty, hanged on the Washington Mall at sunrise one really pretty spring day.

      So I deplore the assassination attempt, because I deplore the loss of innocent life. And I deplore simply killing Mr. Cheney without forcing him to acknowledge the depths of his criminality and depravity. A trial would be much better. But don't think for an instant I'm going to rally behind him because of you or the right wing.

    •  I'm sorry, but we do not have to cravenly bow... (3+ / 0-)

      ... to the right-wing's "when did you stop beating your wife?" crap.

      This is not a blog or a political movement, no matter what wing of it you choose, that ever supported terrorism, so stop being scared of these assholes who only make themselves look like idiots.

      I have more to say on the uselessness and harm of political terrorism down below, but also make the point that the U.S. government has been practicing state terrorism (as documented by the government itself) since long before the Taliban ever came into existence.

      Furthermore, this does not appear to have actually been an assassination attempt. This whole diary and many of the comments are testimony to the FEAR set up by the Bush/Cheney administration that any of us may be turned into "enemy combatants".

      Never In Our Names

      "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth."

      by Valtin on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:12:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I take exception to Cheney being "innocent" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      That arrogant fascist is the last person that I would refer to as being "innocent". Never the less, I believe that all people consedered to be innocent until proven guilty and that they are entitled to "due process of law", which is just the opposite to what Cheney advocates to those being held in Gitmo, Iraq, Afghanistan and the U.S. "secret gullags".

      I look forward to seeing Bush, Cheney, and the others of their regime being held accountable by our justice system.

  •  100% agreed (13+ / 0-)

    This is not how we operate. If it ever is, I'll be skipping the country or giving Nader another chance :p

  •  Totally agreed. (7+ / 0-)

    We don't need to sink to that level.

    Proud to live in a Blue State!

    by Sister Havana on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:35:15 PM PST

  •  I absolutely agree that no one should (34+ / 0-)

    ever be blown up.  Not even a skunk like Cheney.  I will not, however, be able to think of him as innocent as long as I live.

  •  An attack on the Vice President (27+ / 0-)

    is an attack on America. Period.

    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

    by calipygian on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:39:29 PM PST

  •  I'll go a step further... (54+ / 0-)

    ...holding Vice President Cheney responsible for his actions as an elected representative of the United States is our responsibility as Americans.  I do not wish to see that responsibility usurped by any other party.

    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

    by Jay Elias on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:44:34 PM PST

    •  'zactly. it would redound to our credit (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:


      We don't have time for short-term thinking.

      by Compound F on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:49:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not quite (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      If any American commits a crime abroad, our responsibility is also to enforce any extradition agreements in place, and allow the country with jurisdiction try him.

      To insist on trying him ourselves would be the sort of exceptionalism I won't support.

      •  He's committed crimes against the US on US soil (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ornerydad, ohcanada, blueoasis

        in addition to the ones he's committed in other places against others.  He has committed crimes against the whole of humanity.

        "Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert,Psychiatrist, at the end of Nuremberg trials.

        by 417els on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:40:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Usurped? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, Heterodoxie, Diaries

      How arrogant can you get? Do you think Americans are the ones who have suffered more due to Cheney's actions?

      Damn those Afghan peasants who forced the US to obliterate their villages through murderous air campaigns!

      "George, my gut tells me that they have all along been trying to inflict enough damage that we'd leave." G.W. Bush to G. Stephanopoulos, 10/18/06

      by LodinLepp on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:06:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What dishonest garbage... (0+ / 0-)

        ...what, I'm supposed to feel badly for the Taliban?  It is my responsibility to worry about their fucking suffering?  They were just crying their eyes out when they killed almost three thousand people in my city, weren't they?

        Meanwhile, I'm not saying a single thing about what I think they should want - I'm talking about what I want and what I think American citizens ought to want.  What Afghans want is not the subject of this diary or of my concern.

        The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

        by Jay Elias on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:00:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

          What Afghans want is not the subject of this diary or of my concern.

          The quote above speaks volumes, along with the fact that you apparently believe the Taliban are the only ones who have suffered from the invasion/occupation.

          You're not just commenting on "assasination" attempts, you're saying that Afghans don't have the right to hold Cheney accountable for his actions, because that right belongs to you.

          You're ignorant and arrogant.

          "George, my gut tells me that they have all along been trying to inflict enough damage that we'd leave." G.W. Bush to G. Stephanopoulos, 10/18/06

          by LodinLepp on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 12:15:17 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Besides, (0+ / 0-)

          You should get your facts straight. The Taliban did not kill three thousand people in your city. Deep inside you know that. You choose to believe that rediculous lie. Afghanistan is not the US, and the fact that bin Laden was operating from that country was well known by the US. The US still tried to normalize relations with the Taliban, even shortly before the attacks happened.

          The Taliban offered to extradite bin Laden to a third country after 9/11. Bush refused. Negotiations led by moderates in the Taliban would have likely resulted in a deal, under which bin Laden would have been extradited directly to the US. Bush was not interested. He wanted his bloody war. Am I right in guessing that you supported him?

          At least 3000 civilians were killed in the first 6 months of bombing alone, due to the US strategy of bombing densely populated areas. Both "Taliban" and non-Taliban were killed in great numbers. Among the "Taliban" were countless women and children. When the US was asked about one of these incidents, the Chowkar-Karez massacre, the reply from the military spokesman was: "The people there are dead because we wanted them dead." Rumsfeld simply said: "I cannot deal with that particular village."

          In this story, not everything is black and white. But that's not the way you want it, is it?

          "George, my gut tells me that they have all along been trying to inflict enough damage that we'd leave." G.W. Bush to G. Stephanopoulos, 10/18/06

          by LodinLepp on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 12:40:28 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  So just to clarify (0+ / 0-)

          Not even Bush claimed that the Taliban killed 3,000 people in NY. But I guess he's a little pink round the edges, right?

          "George, my gut tells me that they have all along been trying to inflict enough damage that we'd leave." G.W. Bush to G. Stephanopoulos, 10/18/06

          by LodinLepp on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 01:05:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  while I wholeheartedly condemn the attack (32+ / 0-)

    I'm not quite willing to call Cheney "innocent", as you seem to have done.

    he's got more blood on his hands than any other member of the Bush admin, and that's saying something.

  •  Absolutely not! (11+ / 0-)

    NONE of the 'left' wish the would-be assassins were successful.

    I, for one, wish nothing more than the Vice President to live a long life, so that he will have the opportunity to face judgement for his actions.

    I again, for one, wish that he will have many, many more years in front of him, to enjoy the justice of the international court system, and the inevitable jail cell into which he would be placed.

    • SS

    On forced conformity - "Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard." - Justice Robert Jackson (1943)

    by Skeptical Spectacle on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:48:25 PM PST

  •  I really don't give a shit (31+ / 0-)

    what the right-wing hatemongers say about us.  They lie.  They spread hate.  They divide.  They are cowards and bullies.  Fuck them.  

  •  Well... (14+ / 0-)

    I'm not saying I'd rejoice if the chickens came home to roost... but if Cheney were the victim of a bomb, after considering all the innocents who lost their lives during "shock and awe", I'd consider it karma.

    Then again, after watching our military campaign against the Iraqi head of state and his sons (not to mention our attempt to assinate Kadafy), I'm hard pressed to understand why any American wouldn't realize that our government leaders are now, as a result of our actions, legitimate military targets too. I'm sure the other side has "high value targets" too.

  •  no, i hope he's offed AFTER he leaves office (4+ / 6-)

    The last thing i want to see is for him to be martyred. Once he's out of office, though, fuck him.

  •  I 100% condemn the attempted ... (19+ / 0-)

    ...character assassinations conducted by those on the right, including Dick Cheney, who impugn the patriotism of those who oppose the Bush-Cheney war machine.  

  •  Press reports about al-queda's new sugar daddy (3+ / 0-)

    When I heard that Cheney was targeted by terrorists, I immediately thought of recent reports that the Bush Administration has decided to start funding Sunni extremist groups (like al-queda) to help fight Iran.

    Dick, I need you to make a few stops through the Middle East....

    No problem, Mr President. Don't forget you have an appointment with the Senate on March 15th, ok?

    You are the President of the Senate, aren't you, Dick? ha ha

    That's right Mr. President...ha ha, ha ha

    Et Tu Brute? ha ha ha

    Oh, Mr President, yer killin me!

    HAH, ha ha ha! I know, I know....!

    Take my lesbian daughter, PLEASE! ha ha ha ah HAAA!

    HAH! You're a scream, Dick! Ok, see ya later. Send Puss in Boots....

  •  Best I can manage is Ivory Soap. (7+ / 0-)

    I 99 and 44/100ths percent condemn the attempt.

    Democratic Candidate for US Senator, Wisconsin, in 2012

    by ben masel on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:55:33 PM PST

  •  agreed but (10+ / 0-)

    suicide bombers aren't cowards.

    That actually takes some balls.

  •  i don't care what happens... (18+ / 0-) him.  he is a sick old war-criminal who has the blood of tens of thousands on his hands.  fuck him!

    and, why should i care what sean hannity says about me, or this 'we' you have created???

    if it means saving another million people from death because of this animal's sick policies, then, it is a shame for mankind that this gentleman missed!

    this diary is too 'human event-y' for my tastes...

    •  I don't care about what happens to the man either (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sharoney, Molly Martinez, jfm

      any more than he gives a rat's ass about each of the soldiers sent off to fight his war.

      But I care about what it means to us, as humans, as Americans and as Democrats.

      If Cheney were to be assassinated by terrorists

      -- he'd be a martyr, an instant hero, a rallying point for the neocons
      -- it would be an act of war, no doubt causing escalation or reprisals or some form, resulting in considerably more misery all around.  More people would be hurt, not fewer.
      -- Bush would get to pick a new VP, annointing a fresh new face and no doubt getting a concomitant bump in the polls as people rally around
      -- if you don't like the attacks on our civil liberties now, just wait...
      -- the American people would never have the opportunity to repudiate him themselves

      •  Really? I think it would give a breeze of freash (0+ / 0-)

        air to these insanity we have let ourselves be dragged into.  

        • Martyr?  I doubt it, except by the most craven.  He would be akin to a Mafia Don who got what was many of them get.  
        • An act of war?  If the Dems are still foolish enough to allow Bush to declare an act of war against a verb, then fuck them at this point!
        • Pick a new VP?  Sure, confirmed by Congress.
        • Rally around Bush?  Count me out!  I don't associate with sociopaths and mass murderers if I have a choice; and I do!  He's on his own.  I am rallying around America and its ideas, and Bu$hitCo is not part of that!
        • Civil Liberties?  Why should an attack on a foreign soil in a hostel territory Cheney helped engineer personally curtail civil liberties at home?  
        • Repudiate Cheney?  Well, that would be a dream, and preferable, but how?  Impeachment is the only way.  I suspect this asshole will slink off with a State Funeral and a Presidential Medal of Freedom (they are in crackerjack boxes, now) and lauded as some great turd for suckers to rally around.  Whatever bad karma comes Cheney's way, I will not shed a tear.

        The meek shall inherit the earth.... six feet under!! Liberals and progressives, stop being meek!

        by FightTheFuture on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:41:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm with you (6+ / 0-)

      Like Rush Limpballs is gonna read this diary on his show tomorrow.  

      •  of course not (0+ / 0-)

        But the next time a Democrat goes on TV and any GOP talking head tries to smear us with a false smear, look at how my diary can go a long way toward shoving it down their throats.

        •  Hahaha... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          james risser, jfm

          the only people who will reference this diary are people already within the echo chamber. Democrats on TV aren't going to point to this. Newspapers aren't going to acknowledge it.

          We have more important things to attend to than trying to avoid emboldening talking heads.

          ...individual just one thing i've found...

          by Diaries on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:56:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  you give yourself... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          leftvet, Feeling Blue

          ...way to much credit.  this diary, in my opinion, is a sign of weakness and it is a lie because the title is a lie, cheney is not innocent, and your bowing down to right-wing extremists and giving their opinion of the left any credence at all is sickening and claiming that this diary is somehow 'brave' are seriously mistaken.

          no one, and i mean no one, can make such a ridiculous claim that 100 per cent of the kos community agrees with anything...

  •  If you kill your own leader, that's assassination (24+ / 0-)

    If you kill the leader of an enemy country, that's just bagging a HVT.

    Seriously, I've never been comfortable with the notion that national leaders are somehow off-limits. It's cowardly enough that old men send young men to die, but to actually have an international treaty codifying that they are off-limits?


    There are two kinds of people in the world, those who believe there are two kinds of people in the world and those who don't. - Robert Benchley

    by dj angst on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:08:10 PM PST

  •  I condemn the attack (13+ / 0-)

    but it wasn't an assassination attempt. It was more a military hit on a foreign head of state, as defined by our president.  That's how they define it anyway.  It's ok to kill the leader of your adversary's regime, remember?

    A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

    by dougymi on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:09:00 PM PST

  •  Violence doesn't solve problems (8+ / 0-)

    It would be much better that even the most heinous of war criminals, Bush & Cheney included, be made to face trial and the light of truth instead of being martyred, silenced and free from retribution.

    Evil is as evil does.

    by copymark on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:15:39 PM PST

  •  wow... (8+ / 0-) is something i wrote on my diarytonight that apparently some folks here might want to cut=and=paste and send it along to your favorite dick:

       Dear Vice President Cheney, it comes with great comfort and relief knowing that such a great American is safe tonight, away from harm's way! When I first heard of this near tragedy, my eyes moistened and I felt such a jarring in my insides, I thought I was the one hit with an IED. Vice President Cheney, I and my fellow Americans felt your pain today.

       Imagine, a true Patriot and Vietnam War Hero such as yourself, who selflessly gives of himself to make sure that America remains great and safe from the terrorists who want to kill us all, attack all of our women, and ruin our way of life. Imagine, a hero of Democracy, a former Senator from the Great State of Wyoming, Secretary of Defense, a fine business leader for such earth-friendly corporations, and, now, the Vice President of these Great United States coming so close to death. I shudder to think what America would be like without your career in politics! I shudder, the world shudders, to imagine a world without your perception and your guidance! The wonderful work you did in leading American forces in the first Gulf War, and, your kind assuring words that led us into this Global War of Terrorism.  May God thank you for being such a fine example to all of us on what a Leader truly is!

       God willing, you will live to be at least 65 years old and enjoy your family and enjoy leading us into the darkness with your bright light of wisdom and your keen sense of what it means to be human; your love of the poor and all the work you do in building homes for them in New Orleans.  You are a saint among men!

       I, remain respectfully yours,

       [insert name here]

  •  I'm not wild eyed. (8+ / 0-)

    But I'm not part of your 100% either. Why?

    We are not the people who call for killing innocent people.

    Because that's not an accurate portrayal of Dick Cheney.

    Dick Cheney is not innocent. Justice has broken down in America. There is no accountability for his crimes because of the power he has. And at that point, there's no basis for saying one is "innocent" until proven guilty. There will never be a process to prove anything, because our country is too corrupt.

    In that case, I'm not at all against the people we illegally declared war on attacking our leaders.

    I personally support their initiative in taking it out on the people who deserve it, rather than the citizens of this country.

    The American people are innocents, in some sense. Dick Cheney is anything but. I for one hope he gets what he deserves. And if the Gods think he mirrors Saddam and should share his fate, from my understanding of what's happened, that sounds perfectly fair to me.

    And if the poor of this world need to take Justice into their own hands like Dick did, in order to feel some sense of healing or closure, then that sounds fair to me as well.

    •  put him on trial (5+ / 0-)

      Give Cheney a trial at the Hague.  That's how we solve the problem.

      •  Yes, that's best for us (4+ / 0-)

        as Americans.

        But for the other party in this war, I can't say that I could argue against their right to retaliate against our leaders.

        It'd be like saying we couldn't knock out Hitler. Of course we could and we should have.

        Just because I'm an American doesn't mean I can't recognize that we're in the wrong in this War. And as such, the people who declared that illegal war put themselves on the line.

        Cheney knows this. He was willing to make that gamble. If it bites him in the ass, I might even go so far as to say... just desserts.

        But yes, as Americans I think we can all agree that we'd like to see his dirty laundry aired in a court (YUCK!) rather than see him get snuffed and never have these crimes truly resolved. That's ideal.


        But less than ideal might also be reasonable too, this being the real world and all.

        I'm just saying that this is War. Cheney started it, Cheney knew the consequences and the risks. He's the one who deserves to bare the burden of what he's wrought, even with his own life.

  •  Thank you for this diary! (5+ / 0-)

    Very well said.

    1-20-09 The Darkness Ends "Where cruelty exists, law does not." ~ Alberto Mora.

    by noweasels on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:17:21 PM PST

  •  I just want Cheney removed from office, but (6+ / 0-)

    in a fashion befitting this great country. I.e. impeachment. Not a coup d'etat. We're not some fucking Banana Republic. Or, at least, we weren't until 2000.

    The right-wing types who call for blood only besmirch themselves and do nothing to help their cause. If they want to act like goons, fine. We will treat them like goons. But we're not going to lower ourselves into the slime w/ them.

    We don't Cheney dead, we just want him out of the VP's office. The sooner the better. But through our democratic process, not through explosives.

    His heart and health is so fucked up anyway that I would be surprised if he lasts another 10 years without any "help" from terrorists.

  •  IF (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    it was indeed an attempted assassination of Cheney.

    I 100% condemn any culture of death. I know some are pro-life in all circumstances.

    I await the statements of concern from those "affected" for those who actually lost their lives (on all "sides"). In the meantime, I will offer concern for all those involved in this - yet another tragic loss of life in a beleaguered country.

    The law is slacked and judgment doth never go forth: the wicked compass about the righteous and wrong judgment proceedeth - Habakkuk 1:4

    by vox humana on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:19:58 PM PST

  •  Are You Kidding? (17+ / 0-)

    You certainly don't speak for me.  Nobody cried when Hitler died.  I'd be out celebrating if they'd gotten Cheney. Impeachment would then be a viable option.  Personally, I hope Cheney goes back to Afghanistan often.  If I saw Cheney in front of the Capitol (knowing he has a bad heart) I'd challenge him to a race up the steps.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:22:09 PM PST

  •  Whoa there nelly... (31+ / 0-)

    I think I'm speaking for almost everybody here when I say that I unequivocally condemn the attempted assassination of Vice President Cheney in Afghanistan and that any person responsible for this cowardly act should be jailed for life at a minimum.

    I'm not going to waste one of my condemnations on the near-takeout of Cheney. And I'm certainly not going to do it out of fear of "emboldening" the right wing. Right now, there are a hell of a lot more issues out there I'm busy condemning. File Cheney's incident under the default "murder is wrong" condemnation. Beyond that, leave me out of your triangulations.

    ...individual just one thing i've found...

    by Diaries on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:27:27 PM PST

    •  I think (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      it is fair that most of us don't advocate violence as a preferred solution, even on someone like Cheney, without due process. And the person or group that would want to kill him is not our friend either.

      Given that, if he's dead, I think he deserved what he got and would have gotten no sympathy from me.

  •  WHAT? (12+ / 0-)

    We are not the people who call for killing innocent people.

    I am not in favor of killing anyone, or calling for the killing of anyone.  But the problem I have with your statement is that you were talking about Mr. "go f*ck yourself" cheney......


  •  true (4+ / 0-)

    i'd much rather see him live to stand trial in the hague for crimes against the peace and against humanity.

    surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

    by wu ming on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:29:35 PM PST

  •  I condemn the people (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MarkInSanFran, bustacap

    who tried to kill Hitler with a bomb - do you?

  •  If Cheney had died (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snakelass, andydoubtless

    it would deprive the world of the chance for a very important healing process -- his trial for crimes against humanity.

    We're all pretty crazy some way or other; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is just a setting on the dryer.

    by david78209 on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:31:49 PM PST

  •  Please Don't Kill Cheney (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda, kestrel9000, blueoasis

    Not only is it criminal and against everything liberals stand for, but also, in all seriousness, we need to impeach him.

  •  I also condemn the people who tried to kill (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    astronautagogo, duckpin136, galaxy33

    Saddam.  And they succeeded.  

    And in the process of trying to kill him, they killed 400,000 to 1,000,000 other people - and they are still trying to kill people.  

    So, let's have a diary condemning the killing of Saddam and Hitler - which also killed millions of innocents in the attempt.

    •  Hitler? What fresh hell is this... (3+ / 0-)

      I may not have agreed with your logic but I respected your principles, until you called for the condemnation of the effort to kill Hitler, by which I understand you mean World War II.

      If there has ever been a war in the history of the world that was not a war of choice but of necessity, it was World War II. Specifically, I'd refer you to the fact that it was Nazi Germany that declared war on the United States following the U.S.'s declaration of war on Japan after Pearl Harbor. In more general terms, it's crucial to remember the Nazis' pattern of conquest, expropriation and extermination would have resulted in the deaths of still more millions of people than those who perished in the war. It is difficult to imagine the full consequences of an Axis victory in World War II--the certain end of the Jewish people, the almost as certain beginning of genocide against other races, the enslavement of Europe and the extinction of the very concept of human rights in most of the world. And the consequences of a Nazi Germany surviving into the nuclear age was envisioned very clearly by Philip K. Dick in his novel "The Man in the High Castle," which I heartily recommend you read.

      I agree with you that the deaths of innocent Iraqis has been tragic and unnecessary. By any measure their costs exceed any benefits to ourselves or to the Iraqis of the invasion. But we cannot pretend either that there are no wars worth fighting or that there are no circumstances in which the taking of innocent life is necessary.

      •  I'm amazed it got 2 recs (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kaye, FightTheFuture, Molly Martinez

        It's a stunning revisionist perversion of history Even to suggest that millions were killed in the attempt to kill Hitler -- unless one's referring to the Russian front, it's probably statistically inaccurate. If you're referring to the American involvement, it didn't include anything like those numbers. The millions that died, were at the hands of the Nazi death machine -- except at the Russian front, where the two great evil madmen of the 20th Century slugged it out at the expense of their people. On our side, at least with respect to attacking Germany, the only shame is that we didn't act faster (it took us two and a half years to launch the invasion of Europe, not even counting the time we did nothing more than supply the British) or with more intention to destroy the machinery of extermination at the death camps.

        "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

        by FischFry on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:52:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You misunderstand my post-- (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Basically the author of the comment I am responding to implicitly defines the effort to kill Hitler in very broad terms, i.e., that of the war to defeat him. This isn't me imposing a meaning on him at all. If he writes of the Iraq War as an effort to kill Saddam Hussein that killed several hundred thousand people and then writes of World War II analogously, this is a fair assertion.

          Asides from that, I don't see what your problem is with my post considering you and I both agree the fighting of WWII should not be condemned, when the idea that it should be is precisely what I took from the post I responded to.

          •  I didn't have a problem with your post (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FightTheFuture, andydoubtless

            I recommended your post. And I echoed and amplified your comments. I didn't say you imposed a meaning on him, so I'm confused by your response to my post. As for what the original comment author said -- there was no "fair assertion, since s/he said "millions," not several hundred thousand people -- I noted that the US war effort in WWII, against Germany (adding in Japan would change my response regarding the death toll), did not kill millions, though it may have failed to save millions by not acting more swiftly. Since I agreed with you about how absurd the original comment was, I don't understand why you are finding a problem between us.....

            "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

            by FischFry on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:49:42 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  I have an American cousin (0+ / 0-)

          buried in France in 1944. He was US Army.   I have several more cousins (more distant) buried Germany.  They were Nazis.  I have even more cousins who died in the camps.  

          As humans, we have to condemn all killing and wars and learn to work out problems without violence.  If we do not do this, then who owns the nuclear bomb technology will not matter in the least.

          •  That's just fine (0+ / 0-)

            Except sometimes the nut jobs on the other side don't really give you a choice. Either they slam planes into buildings, or bomb your bases and declare war...or sometimes, they just go around killing lots of other people, creating a moral imperative to act, not just plead for them to stop. Japan and Germany made it easy for the U.S. to go to war in 1941, by declaring war first, and attacking us. The problem is that, until that time, we ignored the moral imperative to act decisively -- believing that we could stay aloof and let others do the fighting.

            Sometimes, life just ain't that pretty. It's fine and dandy to say all killing and wars should be condemned -- the thing is that some folks could care elss abot your condemnation. And maybe, not all wars should be condemned -- are you suggesting that both sides be condemned...the one that attacks, and the one that fights back?

            "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

            by FischFry on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:56:55 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  WW 2 was not a war of necessity (0+ / 0-)

        for the Germans, was it?

        and in response to:

        In more general terms, it's crucial to remember the Nazis' pattern of conquest, expropriation and extermination would have resulted in the deaths of still more millions of people than those who perished in the war.

        And do you know how many millions will end up dead from the bush/cheney administration plans in the Middle East?  I think we have already passed the one million mark in Iraq, and Afghanistan is just getting started.

        Either you condemn the killing of people - or you don't.  If you say it is okay to kill of the "bad guys" then you leave open to interpretation the definition of the "bad guys".  And you can rest assured that most of the world sees bush/cheney as "bad guys".

        I think there are no wars "worth fighting" because I also believe that we (the human species) have to choose between non-violence or non-existance.

        But as long as there are circumstances that (in your opinion):

        the taking of innocent life is necessary.

        I will shut up and play along as long as 100% of the innocent lives are your relatives and friends.  


        •  But our response to WWII was of necessity, now (0+ / 0-)

          wasn't it?  

          Choosing non-violence is often choosing non-existence.  It's a shitty choice, sure, but that's life, and that's why we need to push for better non-violent solutions while not forgetting that each person as a right to defend themselves.  

          As for offense, yeah, there's a problem.  WWII was not a war of "offense" from our perspective.  Explain it differently, if you can.  Iraq, all offense!!

          The meek shall inherit the earth.... six feet under!! Liberals and progressives, stop being meek!

          by FightTheFuture on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:53:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I'm all for detaining folks like Saddam, Hitler (0+ / 0-)

        etc..for the rest of their lives..however, you don't teach civility by killing the killers. Don't get me wrong, if I was in the armed forces and faced with a killed or be killed would be the other guy.
        However, that wasn't the case with Saddam, it was an act of barbarity to a barbarian. It would have been a great opportunity to rise above and jail Saddam for life without parole. You don't teach that killing is wrong by killing when you don't have to, it's just not what civilized societies do.

        "I don't wanna listen to the fundamentalist preachers anymore!" -Howard Dean

        by astronautagogo on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 12:49:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  for the record (6+ / 0-)

    My immediate reaction when I heard of the bombing was "Oh no!  Oh shit!"

    The bomber blew him/herself to bits, and finding the bomber's associates will be difficult, so I doubt we'll ever have the satisfaction of putting the responsibles on trial.  

    Regardless of our collective desire to see Cheney impeached and brought to trial for his own misdeeds, we do not tolerate for one minute the idea of using assassination or other violence as a means of changing individuals or policies in/of our government.  And those who espouse such positions should be prosecuted under the appropriate statutes.  Including some of the key rightwingers you mention in the diary.  

    •  Please (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      There are no "appropriate statutes" (yet) making it illegal "espouse the position" that you wish someone would die/be killed. That's protected speech unless you are commander of some army or militia who then goes out and makes that person dead.

      •  then be my guest (0+ / 0-)

        If you were to get up in a public forum and say that you wished that someone would kill so-and-so public official, yes, you could be charged with making a threat.  And at minimum you would get a visit from some very serious guys with a bunch of difficult questions.  

        And just because some idiot righties have been doing it and getting away with it (e.g. threats against judges), doesn't mean that you yourself could.  

        You don't have to take my word for it.  

    •  G2geek, well put (0+ / 0-)

      My sentiments exacly.

      "I don't wanna listen to the fundamentalist preachers anymore!" -Howard Dean

      by astronautagogo on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:36:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Many commenters are missing the point. (5+ / 0-)

    Cheney is scum and deserves to rot in jail.  If I were a death penalty supporter, he'd be near the top of the list.

    But no matter my own feelings, this is not my house.  I don't have the right to threaten my host's livelihood and reputation by indulging every gleeful impulse of schadenfreude in his house.

    Nanotechnology can take atmospheric CO2 and make diamonds and fresh air.

    by Crashing Vor on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:35:14 PM PST

  •  I watched..... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    byteb, Tom P, Leap Year

    I watched the Bob Woodruff documentary in tears tonight.

    There will be no tears by me for DICK Cheney...ever.

  •  I oppose killing even guilty persons (4+ / 0-)

    but if it were proven that cheney were a cyborg killing machine...

  •  I don't want to see him killed (4+ / 0-)

    Especially not a hero's death in Afghanistan... he'd become a Neocon saint...  "Saint Dick of the Forked Tongue", maybe.

    No, I want him to live, we can't try him for war crimes if he's dead.

  •  I was far more concerned for a buddy of mine (20+ / 0-)

    stationed at that base with a National Guard unit then the Vice President.

    That particular base had not been attacked for over a year until he shows up today.

    For the safety of our troops he should stay the hell home.

  •  this should go without saying (4+ / 0-)

    but I'm glad you said it because you just KNOW some right winger is trolling the entire world to find that one guy waving some kind of anarchist banner -- as if they have something to do with the democratic party.

    there are only two sides -- with the troops or with the President

    by danthrax on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:45:33 PM PST

    •  And we wouldn't want to embolden them, would we? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      thingamabob, danthrax, tovan, blueoasis

      ...individual just one thing i've found...

      by Diaries on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:02:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Doesn't anyone think the bombers are pretty bold? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        scrutinizer, Diaries

        I mean, they do seem pretty bold already. I'm not really sure it they could become much bolder.

        "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

        by FischFry on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:42:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Agreed...though in this case, I was speaking more (4+ / 0-)

          of these hordes of right-wing zealots we seem to be falling over ourselves to appease. I might be in the minority here, but I see no reason to goose-step each other into condemning this or that. It's stupid when the wingers ask Muslims to do it in apology for suicide bombers, and it's damned stupid when we start pre-emptively doing it here in fear of being attacked. If busily recommending a "I condemn Cheney's assassination attempt" diary is what we feel we have to do to avoid conflict, we're in a lot more trouble than I thought.

          ...individual just one thing i've found...

          by Diaries on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:50:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I understood. Pet peeve of mine (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blueoasis, Diaries

            I keep hearing about how we will embolden the terrorists if we do X or Y. I can't really believe that they can get much bolder. I mean they might find ways to kill more people, but they're already at peak boldness.

            "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

            by FischFry on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:56:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Problem being ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Who's going to care about the umpteen diaries deploring active violence against sitting VP's.  Any crazy nut job on the far right will find something, somewhere to label Democrats complicit, or at the very least sympathetic to such actions.

      It's great to pat ourselves on the back for being ... human beings ... and it's a whole lot better than a diary lamenting the heightened security wherever this occured, but that's really about all it is.  No more, no less.

      •  the umpteen diaries are important (0+ / 0-)

        b/c the moment the RWers bring up that one anonymous comment (perhaps written by an RNC staff member) we can point to diaries such as this to show where we truly stand as a community.

        MOreover, we then can quote the pundits who make up the RW media machine and denounce them.  So we win on two fronts and they lose on two fronts.

        •  And you still think that'll work? (0+ / 0-)

          The purpose of the right wing smear machine is to smear--once the label is out there, no amount of fighting back undoes the damage. The best defense is to recognize the sheer futility of "fighting" these asinine charges, and spend our energy in constructive activity.

          Despite the need to vent, and reaffirm our progressive values, I don't regard this diary as terribly constructive.

          -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

          by thingamabob on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:00:24 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  in a perfect world ... (0+ / 0-)

          In the world we live in diaries like this are effectively washed away by the single instance of someone calling for armageddon in Afghanistan.

          Obviously I don't disapprove of the diary I just don't think it means very much, although I am glad it got onto the Rec list.

  •  I don't, because Cheney is not an innocent man (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    missreporter, danger durden

    I hope he is impeached, tried for treason, convicted, and is executed as a common criminal, with his bloated, putrid body hung from the gates of the white house for the world to see.

    maybe if someone on the Right got hit with a high powered rifle like those on the Left have been for the past 40 years they might understand the violence they foment with their anger.

    the Mahatama was not a fool and knew he would be a lampshade had he marched on the Third Reich. Non-violence has to be selective or it is plain and stupid egotistical martyrdom.

    you can follow Martin, but I'll stick with Malcom thank you very much.

    "There are many truths of which the full meaning cannot be realized until personal experience has brought it home." John Stuart Mill

    by kuvasz on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:50:35 PM PST

    •  Nope. Never happen. Hes above the law. (0+ / 0-)

      You say hes not? I'm willing to bet he gets away with everything. I've posted before Dick Cheney could molest kids and the whole world couldn't do anything about it. The guy IS evil.

      Means-testing veterans is DEMEANING! Do YOU CARE? PLEASE HELP US. NOTE: Vet with PTSD. Doesn't play well with others.

      by glbTVET on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:09:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I Want To See Cheney Removed Legally... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kaye, Molly Martinez

    and the sooner the better.

    It would give me hope to see the system work like it should.

    Any other method would only give them the excuse to act even more recklessly.

  •  But - - (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    danger durden

    He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

    I do not defend the actions of the suicide bomber -
    But I am hardly surprised.

  •  I remember (0+ / 0-)

     When the issue was first raised that advances in body armor and battlefield medical care was greatly reducing deaths amongst our soldiers, and some right-wingers seized on the chance to say that Democrats wished more of our soldiers would die so we could use it as an issue...  years later, it is finally seeping into the MSM that there will be a huge number of severely disabled veterans from this conflict putting huge strains on our VA hospitals and services... and that Bush is slashing the VA budget.  Although this diary represents an excellent and necessary idea, resisting the ugly characterizations smeared on us by republicans, it is sadly akin to reciting the Pledging of Allegiance on command.

    you learn something new every day, if you're paying attention

    by jhop7 on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 09:58:06 PM PST

    •  You are right, an unwilling pledge has no meaning (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      danger durden, CTLiberal, jhop7

      Token words are LIES.   I never changed to insert "under God." (The minister who wrote pledge left it out on purpose.)Conflating deity with bad acts of a nation blames god for our errors. It excludes patriots who don't use "God" to indicate their deity/deities or lack of any (and/or who refuse vain repetitions or oaths.)    Bible says "THOU SHALT NOT" use his name in "vain repetitions."
          "GROUPTHINK" is so UNAMERICAN. We prove we are a "nation of laws" when we obey them. Our leaders should learn that. Can't kill an idea with bullets.
          We WITNESS our democracy and/or our faith by LIVING IT.  We blog because we are not assassins, we are good citizens trying to fix what is broken.
          Leaving Iraq will EMBOLDEN Iraqis to stop seeing us as occupiers. Cheney shaking hands with Musharrat(sp?) might have upset a citizen of his nation who voted for the guy he replaced with military coup? It is not our right or job to REGIME CHANGE other nations. Supporting "might makes right" emboldens terrorists.  We should MYOB. Do the INTELLIGENCE WORK (ouch - a cartoon image of chimp and chump trying intelligence or work derailed my brain) to capture and bring to trial the criminal conspirators.  NOT bomb already victimized Afghans.  
         Pro-lifers should agree to my IRAQ EXIT PLAN --- pack up troops and go home.

      Unless all votes count, none count. REVOTE FL 13!

      by Neon Mama on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:02:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Since most attacks are pre-planned, and rehearsed (10+ / 0-)

    the odds that this particular attack was really directed at Cheney seem spectacularly low ... It seems more likely that the base was being attacked for other reasons, and that the Cheney press team spun it to their advantage. Cheney's pacemaker seems to be doing fine as well, even with the "nearby" vibrations ...

    •  I think you're being delusional (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      scrutinizer, Geekesque

      This attack was planned, but probably set in motion when Cheney showed up in the region. It doesn't take a whole lot of planning to strap on a bomb and drive a car. It defies all logic to conclude that the first attack in six months on the base was unrelated to the VP being there. The real concern that comes out of this is that the bombers had to have some decent intel if they knew that Cheney was still there -- possibly even inside info. Directed at Cheney, personally? No -- but surely meant as a signal that he couldn't miss.

      And, the Cheney team isn't spinning this, at least not the way you imply. The Pentagon is even pooh-poohing the connection, calling it "implausible," but they sound delusional when they say that. It's "implausible" that there is no connection.

      "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

      by FischFry on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:41:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And this is based on what evidence? (0+ / 0-)

        For background on mujahadin and their tactics, you might want to spend some time on the websites covering the Afghan-Soviet war.
         You make it sound as if pulling off a suicide bombing attempt were no more complicated than driving down a toll road. First, you need a "volunteer." Then you need explosives, properly rigged for detonation. There are experts with one hand or less that have failed in their attempts to build a proper bomb.
         Ad hominem attacks are not necessary to carry off a rational argument. Methinks your emotions got the best of you. See posts related to impending shortages of barley for beer.

        •  Wasn't being emotional (0+ / 0-)

          As for the attack -- the "volunteers" are lined up -- and there are bombs already prepared. It would have involved bringing the two together, and a quick review as to how to get closest to a base that is surely under constant surveilllance by the enemy. No, I don't think that it would take more than a few hours to put in motion an operation whose elements were already in place. I wasn't being emotional, but I do think youu're deluding yourself if you think the coincidental timing was mere happenstance. It was surely deliberate.

          "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

          by FischFry on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:39:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So personal attacks on a poster are rational? (0+ / 0-)

            Time to refer back to FAQ

            •  Wasn't a personal attack (0+ / 0-)

              Saying someone is deluded is not a personal attack, it's a statement of the relationship (or lack thereof) between their view, and the reality.

              "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

              by FischFry on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:31:52 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  If you want to focus on reality, I highly recomme (0+ / 0-)

                d that you read "The Campaign for the Caves: The battles for Zhawar in the Sofiet-Afghan War," by Lester W. Grau and Ali Ahmad Jalali, which was reprinted in the War College publication of the Foreign Military Services Office. It goes into detail on the careful planning involved in mujahideen attacks.
                  Then, as a further exercise in reality, try going around telling people that they are delusional. When you are out of post-op, please let me know how things turned out.

                •  Post-op? How did you know about my surgery? (0+ / 0-)

                  "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

                  by FischFry on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:33:30 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Some reading for sick bay (0+ / 0-)

                    "We must not make a scarecrow of the law
                    setting it up to fear the birds of prey
                    and let it keep its shape, till custom make it
                    the perch, and not the terror
                       ---Angelis to Escides
                          Measure for Measure 6.1.1

                    •  I'm a lawyer (0+ / 0-)

                      So, I'm all for rule of law -- as a perch not terror. I've even a degree in international law, and can envision a time when the international legal system fits that description.

                      "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

                      by FischFry on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:35:12 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  It looks like it's gonna be a long wait (0+ / 0-)

                        with ex-Georgetown law profs John G. Roberts, Jr., Antonin Scali, and assorted grads, etc., Bob Barr, Doug Feith, and Jack Abramoff, etc. doing their damage. A separate sentence is reserved for the damage Michael Powell did at the FCC.

    •  Calling it an assassination attempt (7+ / 0-)

      is fueling a Right Wing talking point as was discussed over at TPM.

      And, BTW, what's the point? Are we hoping to see headlines reading:

      Democrats opposed to assassination of American officials.

  •  I agree. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, blueoasis, Molly Martinez

    I condemn the attack, not because I harbor any mote of compassion for Cheney, but because the blast killed others who just happened to be in the area. Had it not killed other people, I would have condemned it just the same, because Cheney dying isn't justice. Seeing him tried and convicted in a court is. Blowing him to pieces it just insane vigilante vengeance. I'd much rather see the guy clapped in a cell with George and their pals, left to live out their life separated from the power to which they've become so very beholden and addicted.

    People like Cheney don't need to be killed, just taken far away from power. We've seen what the results of people like him are.

    I can also be found here, rambling incoherently.

    by BullitNutz on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:08:41 PM PST

  •  we dont even advocate death penalty after he's (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silverbird, kestrel9000, blueoasis

    convicted of war crime.  Which hopefully occurs before the US starts another gratuitous war.

  •  is this a non-binding resolution? (6+ / 0-)

    It sorta has that feel to it

  •  What's innocent about Cheney? (15+ / 0-)

    Dick Cheney has promoted a bellicose, belligerent war.  As one of its directors he is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands.

    There is nothing innocent about Dick Cheney. He is a proud enemy of justice and humanity.

    The only effective denunciation of the attack on Cheney would be a denunciation of the criminal wars which he has helped foment. Without his warmongering there would never have been an attack on him.

    It makes sense that someone in Afghanistan, a country under attack by forces directed in part by Cheney, would attack Cheney. He is the vice president of a country at war, present in one of (!) the other countries with which it is at war, and it would be absurd to believe that he would not risk attack by so being. The characterization of such an attack as `terrorist' is silly given the context - There could have been little or no expectation of actually killing the surely extremely heavily guarded Cheney (even driving around D.C. he has an enormous caravan of defenders). The purpose of such an attack is propaganda, of the sort used by guerrilla groups - it pretends to show the vulnerability of the invading imperial power. Terrorism is the wanton semi-random killing of persons with no direct relation to the motivations of the attack - something like September 11 or Oklahoma City; in this sense assasination is not really terrorism, and much less so when the proposed victim is one of the leaders of a warring party present in the war zone.

    The Democrats should worry less about the self-created dangers faced by Dick Cheney and more about the horrors he has created for the people of Afghanistan and Iraq.

  •  I would rather see him convicted and made (4+ / 0-)

    to tend to our soldiers that come back missing eyes and limbs.

    Have him and Shrub, and the rest of these 'public servants' serve the needs of the humanity they helped mangle. Have them all be made to serve in hosptial wards in Iraq, too .. to care for the children they have horribly abused.  

    To me, that would be justice.

    Violence only begets more violence.  

    Time to let President Gore you care. Sign up.

    by shpilk on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:19:15 PM PST

  •  Cheney's assination would be the worst thing... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Paulie200, andydoubtless

    ...that could happen to us.

    They would have a martyr to rally around for the war on terra.

    Bush could then appoint his true heir apparent.

    A nightmare scenario!

    Live long and prosper, Dick... or at least until 2008.



  •  I disagree (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrutinizer, kuvasz, ohcanada, Diaries

    I think it's honorable that people would defend their country from someone like Cheney. Their country was involved in 9/11 as much as the U.S. government was involved in the Manson murders. Cheney is not an innocent person. He's a war criminal.

    "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it." - Abe Lincoln

    by munky on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:20:58 PM PST

    •  I thought it was a war (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silverbird, PsychoSavannah

      (on terrah). I don't know why a tribesman  trying to kill Cheney in Afghanistan differs from the bombing of village elders and civilians.. Is it a war or is it murder. Perhaps someone can explain the nuance to me.

      In the days when leaders actually lead the soldiers into battle I believe the enemy actually targeted the leaders.

      Oh that we had the gift to see ourselves as others see us. Robbie Burns

      by ohcanada on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:32:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Cheney is an anchor around (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snazzzybird, Shakludanto

    The Republican Parties neck. Tie him to the Republican nominee for President and they both go down like a rock.

    When you consider that. Losing him to violence would be a very big loss indeed.

    He who lives in the present, has no knowledge of the past nor vision for the future.

    by DeanDemocrat on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:25:13 PM PST

  •  Is this for real? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Demi Moaned, davefromqueens

    Is the right-wing making suggestions that liberals are saying they wished Cheney had been assassinated? Of course, nobody wishes that. It wouldn't even do any good. Bush would just get to name his replacement. Of course, it would have to be someone that could gain Senate approval, a la Gerald Ford....Just kidding....

    "America! F*%# Yeah! Coming again to save the mother-f*%#ing day!" -- Team America

    by FischFry on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:26:00 PM PST

  •  Whatever will be will be (5+ / 0-)

    He's created a situation where his life IS in danger everywhere he goes. Payback is a bitch at times. There's an old adage that says that the world is never wrong. If one travels the world and people are trying to mow you down at every corner, it's time to take a hint. That's how I feel.

    I won't condemn the world for being how it is. He reaps what he sows and that's got nothing much to do with anyone wishing it on him. Restraint is something personal anyway. I for one would try and control myself; others are beyond that point for obvious reasons. Shit happens.

    •  If the attack had succeeded (5+ / 0-)

      Cheney would have dug his own grave, figuratively and literally speaking, by creating the conditions that have led to suicide bombings and attacks on americans in the middle east.  Had Cheney not been so hasty to attack Iraq, perhaps Afghanistan would be in better shape and security in force.  

      I do not value Cheney and his life is no more significant than any other person who has died due to his policies.  I am saddened anyone would rush to his defense or be unable to see that he helped create the situation in the first place.

      And besides, karma can be a real bitch sometimes.

  •  I'm with the poster above (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tovan, Sharon in MD, jfm

    who says, "I don't give a shit."  I will admit when I heard about this story I experienced a mild flashback of sorts to the day Ronnie Raygun was shot.  Apparently that's troll bait around these parts so I won't go there.  Take it for what it's worth, which admittedly may not be much.

    We need your help Wes to clean up this mess.

    by Paper Cup on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:27:20 PM PST

  •  Agree and recommended, however... (6+ / 0-)

    the thought that is always with me, especially in when we are engaged in armed conflict as we are now, is that were the monied and powerful the first to be put in harm's way whenever diplomacy failed, that we would see one hell of a lot more diplomatic successes and very little God Damned war.

    Behold the Lambs of Kos.

    by greeseyparrot on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:30:23 PM PST

  •  Opinion leaders versus anonymous posters (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Paulie200, kuvasz, blueoasis

    I find the criticism from the right also especially curious.

    On the left side of the political spectrum I can't name a single major figure who openly advocates murder of political adversaries as an instrument of domestic policy.

    On the right side of the political spectrum you not only find these opinions expressed among rank and file partisans, but, as your post indicates several major figures--opinion leaders on the right--have made millions advocating illegal and violent means to justify political ends.

  •  Cheney is NOT innocent. (9+ / 0-)


    by Intercaust on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:40:46 PM PST

  •  With all possible respect... (9+ / 0-)

    ...I reasonably disagree with your diary.

    Had I my choice, yes, I would rather that Cheney be tried and likely convicted and just as likely executed in a Nuremberg-style setting.

    Failing that option, if the choices are limited to:

    (1) like Pinochet, dying a rich man at an old age, in bed, surrounded by family and sycophants (which is likely to happen), or

    (2) be assassinated by someone driven by rightful revenge as a direct result of the policies implemented by the target,

    Then regretfully, I'd rather see (2) happen, as karmic justice if nothing else.

    I would have no problem seeing the would-be assassin tried and convicted as well.

    Finally, I don't care what the Right says. I never let them affect the way I feel or speak.


    by Lupin on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:41:43 PM PST

  •  I don't care what the right thinks. (4+ / 0-)

    They're idiots anyway.  Cheney is an idiot, but he doesn't actually matter.  What I care about is the majority party in Congress doing what it was elected to do:  end the war!

    How much 'courage' does it take to submit a piece of legislation to change policy in Iraq?  Is that really considered 'courage' when thousands of soldiers risk their lives caught in the crossfire of a civil war?  

    Why is it that no one in Washington has any common sense?

  •  one of the worst days of my life (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    perro amarillo, Paulie200

    was the day Reagan was shot.  I hated the guy, wished daily that he had never become president, and still think he was one of the worst Presidents this country will ever have.  But for someone to try to kill him made me extremely angry.

  •  With all due respect (16+ / 0-)

    these wingnuts are attempting to force you into some sort of defense mechanism or victim mentality.
    We don't have to defend shit. We actually lend credence to their argument by attempting to defend ourselves.
    Two words sum up the response to Sean Hannity or whoever it is and I wish Harry Reid would say this in the chamber
    "FUCK OFF"

    Common sense isn't that common - Voltaire

    by obgynlover on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:46:21 PM PST

    •  double plus good comment (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      waf8868, NearlyNormal


    •  disagree, I'm on offense here (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not defending what we never said.

      First I am pointing out that we never said what they said we said.
      Second, I am condemning what should be obvious.
      Third, I am attacking them for the lie and smear.
      Fourth, I'm attacking them for their comments that do say what they say shouldn't be said.
      Fifth, I am calling for the GOP to abandon the people mentioned above.
      Sixth, I'm attacking the GOP for not abandoning the violence advocating media personalities.
      Seventh, I'm linking the GOP to these extremists for their lack of a condemnation.

      Defense?  3-7 are all offense baby!

      •  Get rid of steps 1-3 (0+ / 0-)

        And then you've got a good plan. The first three steps, however, all by into the right-wing smear machine framing.

        -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

        by thingamabob on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:12:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Cheney was a mile away according to the NYT (8+ / 0-)
    So it does not appear to be an Attempted Assassination on Cheney.

    American officials insisted that the importance of the attack, by a single suicide bomber who blew himself up a mile away from where the vice president was staying, was primarily symbolic. It was more successful at grabbing headlines and filling television screens with a scene of carnage than at getting anywhere near Mr. Cheney.

    I am not interested in seeing Cheney killed. That said, he is not "innocent" by any definition that I know of.

  •  Well, okay ... (7+ / 0-)

    But I have to say that when I first heard about the attempt, a small little voice in the back of my head did ask, a little too expectantly, "Did they get him?"

    And you know what? Just about everybody I talked to today said they experienced the same thing.

    And while I agree with sentiments about the killing of "innocent" people, I'm not sure that that is the adjective I would use to describe our beloved Vice-President.

  •  Oh, excuse me... (5+ / 0-)

    We are not the people who call for killing innocent people.  The Right has a monopoly on that.

    ...I thought the subject was Dick Cheney.


  •  It's sad to me... (0+ / 0-)

    that the Neocons would pay terrorists to try to kill Cheney, just so they can stay in power.

    It is bad foreign policy to make enemies faster than you can kill them.

    by Paulie200 on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:14:15 PM PST

    •  I didn't mean to imply it could only have been... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      the Neocons, could have been some other Republican operatives, or some military guys doin' an old fasioned fragging.  (Kabul airport doesn't get hit very often at all, you have to wonder.)

      (And yes the above two comments are total B.S.... maybe.

      It is bad foreign policy to make enemies faster than you can kill them.

      by Paulie200 on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:17:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  my brief scan (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    showed right wing bloggers excoriating the HuffPo.  Dkos pretty much got a pass.  Justifiably.

    BTW, the "pro-death" HuffPo comments were attached to a news story, not a blogger's post.

    So much there is I do not need.

    by valion on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:18:28 PM PST

  •  Ok, you're right, here we go... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If you oppose killing an innocent person, say so.  If somebody in your party says something along these lines, denounce them...

    I totally oppose anyone's attempt to assasinate Dick Cheney.  Given that the attempt was made, I am totally in favor of our government and our troops moving heaven and earth to find the people who aided the attempt in any way.  If only the shrub and the Dick hadn't diverted our troops away from their mission in Afghanistan, I believe the people responsible for this outrage would never have been free, and their cause would long ago have been de-legitimized, and their ability to mount such outrages severly curtailed.  Now that we have seen such a shocking and awful demonstration of the result of our missteps in the so-called war on terror, I urge our government to come to its senses, and re-focus our efforts in Afghanistan and Pakistan.  That's where Al Qaeda and their friends, the Taliban, are gathering strength, largely untroubled by any attempts by our forces in the area, or our so-called allies in pakistan.

    If any in our party, such as Lieberman, continue to believe that our misadventure in Iraq is still the right war to fight, I utterly condemn their utter stupidity, venality and lack of courage.  By failing to admit past errors, these spineless blots on our national pride are effectively aiding and abetting our true enemies, Osama bin Laden, Ayman Zawahiri, and the other vermin in Al Qaeda.  I point the finger squarely at those who conceived of, enabled and continue to support the criminal diversion of our resources from Afghanistan to Iraq.  I further condemn the traitors in high command who thoroughly botched the Iraq misadventure, and the lemmings in Congress who enabled them back then, and fail to rectify their errors now.

    Our mistakes in Iraq, such as condoning torture, allowing free reign to lawless behavior by bad elements in our forces, and more so bad elements in the shadow army of contractors.  The culpable negligence which led to Abu Ghraib has given comfort to the jihadists, and immeasurably added to the danger our troops face in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Americans and their allies face everywhere else.  These criminal acts on the part of a few, at the highest levels of our government, have not just allowed the highest reaches of Al Qaeda to remain free, but have strengthened them in ways nothing else could have.

    So I totally agree with davefromqueens: this assasination attempt on Cheney must be condemned.  I vehemently denounce any Democrat who does not share this outrage at the attempt, and at the venality and corruption in the highest reaches of our government which has enabled the perpetrators of this outrageous attack on Cheney.

  •  The point is moot in my opinion... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chriscol, John Boy

    one cannot kill that which is already dead.

    When it comes down to Cheney, think vampire.
    Woe to those who make the attempt. hell below us, above us only sky.

    by rightiswrong on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:25:23 PM PST

  •  My head agrees (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrutinizer, rightiswrong, blueoasis

    But my heart is dragging its feet. Cheney represents us? Yes, you're right, I suppose and violence is bad, and ...

    It's just that there are villains in the world, and I don't care for whose team they play. When I was young, it was "my team," until I realized we'd be nobodies without the other teams. Then it was "rah, rah, my hometown," until one got out of it and began to love some other towns. Then came "whoop de do, my country" until one took a good look and saw some truths.

    Maybe the problem with me is that I abhor the circle of hell of violence we live with, but I also don't feel much like an American anymore.

    "There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order." Ed Howdershelt

    by JuliaAnn on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:25:39 PM PST

  •  Tips To You, Dave, but I'm ambivalent... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoasis, Molly Martinez

    about whether they got him or not. There is nothing at all wrong with being neutral about this, IMhO

    Rumors of an attempted arrest of Cheney in Australia, and three dead US soldiers on the tarmac do not surprise me, nor am I bewildered at the prospect. The man is in a high-risk job and he knows it. He ought to be better protected.

    But if he dies, he dies. He's responsible for many deaths for what he believes in.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -E.Burke Women, Get It Now: HPV Test

    by ezdidit on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:30:27 PM PST

  •  Those morons (5+ / 0-)

    are going to find something to write about us no matter what we do/say.

    I for one think your diary, while well intentioned, is meaningless.

    And, under no circumstances, would I ever say anything good about Cheney.  Period.

  •  Stupid Taliban (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lostinbrasil, bustacap, blueoasis, jfm

    You don't use a bomb on Cheney. It only makes him mad and kills a lot of innocent people.

    You need to get in close. First pull out your crucifix. This will distract him. Then splash him with holy water. This will cause a buning sensation and immobilize him long enough to use the wooden stake.

    Just make sure not to let him look you in the eyes.

  •  this wasn't (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    an assassination attempt.  

    ...i felt my pants' warmth as my legs became string and my arteries burst into song...

    by itsbenj on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:37:02 PM PST

  •  Innocent?? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lostinbrasil, Diaries

    You don't even need an invitation to walk into a trap, do you?

    "George, my gut tells me that they have all along been trying to inflict enough damage that we'd leave." G.W. Bush to G. Stephanopoulos, 10/18/06

    by LodinLepp on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:38:25 PM PST

  •  I deplore assassination. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cowalker, Molly Martinez

    I'm ambivalent about the death penalty itself, but execution without due process is murder, and I'll never condone that.

    I won't call for his assassination.  His death by other than natural causes would be a tragedy.

    Unless it were preceded by an arrest, an indictment, a trial, a conviction, a sentencing, and a judge pronouncing the equivalent of "may God have mercy upon your soul".

    No, we can't sacrifice the law to expediency.  That's what got us into this nightmare we've all been living for the past six years.

    •  You are right (0+ / 0-)

      and the reason you give is the best one. Abandoning rights guaranteed by the Constitution, acting as though anyone is above the law--that's how we got into this mess labeled the "Global War on Terror" by the bullies in the executive offices.

  •  What's the point of Cheney and (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greeseyparrot, 417els, blueoasis, TomY

    the rest of the cabal taking these trips into the belly of the beast they created other than unadulterated hubris?

    Why do people have to die either protecting Cheney or just being near him? Cheney, Bush and Rice should all stay in their undisclosed locations as far as I'm concerned. hell below us, above us only sky.

    by rightiswrong on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 11:59:41 PM PST

  •  mahybe im just drunk (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Molly Martinez

    but i apporove this message. : )

  •  No i do not want to see (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RickD, Diaries

    an attempted assassin "jailed for life at a minimum."

    That's a punishment that should only be reserved for the worst of murderers. NOT attempted murderers. And I hardly think that if the president of Afghanistan visited the US and had an attempt on his life that the attemptor would be treated so harshly.

    It is hard to get the news from poems, but men die miserably every day for lack of what is found there. --William Carlos Williams

    by Richard Platypus on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:28:21 AM PST

  •  How come (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrutinizer, RickD, leftvet, jfm, Diaries

    it's legitimate military action (or at least just "military action") when the US targets foreign leaders, leaders of states that have not even attacked the US; while it's categorically branded "terrorism" -- and nothing but terrorism -- when it is the other way around; when fighters in states that have been invaded by the US target the American political and/or miliary leaders that are responsible, even when the attack takes place on the attackers' homeland. For some reason, the the language and ontology changes.

    This is not about whether blowing yourself up in a crowd of people is a nice thing to do. The point is that you are not credible. Calling Cheney "innocent" is ridiculous. You may be "patriotic" all you want -- patriotism remains the dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors -- but you have no credibility the way you describe your leaders.

    "George, my gut tells me that they have all along been trying to inflict enough damage that we'd leave." G.W. Bush to G. Stephanopoulos, 10/18/06

    by LodinLepp on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:35:40 AM PST

  •  Assassination is verboten, bad, etc, etc (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda, LodinLepp, blueoasis

    However Cheney could easily be tried and sentenced to death for crimes he may have committed, such as the violation of US War Crimes Act of 1996 (if the conduct ordered resulted in the death of victims, which it did indeed)

    That's if the law applied to powerful people, which it indeed does not, in the USA.

  •  It's the idea (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    of killing the Vice President of the United States I condemn. But Cheney is hardly  innocent. He should thank whatever god he prays to that he holds an office higher then him and his pettty delusions.

  •  Don't deny it, CRUSH it (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silverbird, FutureNow

    America is basically f*cked. When a group of diverse people, united primarily by a desire for individual freedom and a more effective and humane government, is falsely and pointedly targeted as urgently desiring the killing of government officials, the system has just about reached it's limit.

    The coup is almost complete, now, and responding to this outrageous assertion by adopting the evil framing (which is what you do by even treating the smear as worthy of a response) will simply hasten the demise of the American republic.

    Your republic, killed by Republicans. How ironic.

    -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

    by thingamabob on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:43:55 AM PST

    •  More than a few responses (0+ / 0-) this diary clearly show that there are some in the "left" who are not that upset about the alleged attack on Cheney, the Vice President of the United States.

      That runs counter to the assertion made by the diarist and in line with what Michelle Malkin, et al, are saying about the "left's" response.

      •  Shameful comment (0+ / 0-)

        You need to read with more comprehension. As a favour to me, can you point out where in my comment you see any indication that I long for the deaths of Cheney or anyone else with whom I might have political differences or complaints, legitimate or otherwise?

        If you can't find such indication, it's because it's not there. What you can see, if you read exactly what's written, is that the kind of hate speech actually thrown about by the Malkins, Coulters, et al is symptomatic of our democratic decline, and is the only thing really worthy of outrage. Why? IN part because it is such a dreadful smear; in part because it's part of a deliberate attempt to obfuscate, confuse, manipulate and demonize; and in part because it corrupts all public discourse and leads to the kind of comment you just left.

        The diarist's assertion is that we must counter the Malkin argument. My assertion is simply that Malkin's assertion is so outrageous that it deserves no reply other than a unified movement to crush this kind of hate-smear. To answer the charge with an "Innocent, your honour" is to give the charge a legitimacy it in no way deserves.

        But that is nothing in comparison with your comment, which not only legitimizes, but endorses Malkin's speech.

        Good on ya.

        -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

        by thingamabob on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:11:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was not refering to your (0+ / 0-)

          comment as one that is running counter to the diarists assertion.

          Unfortunately, there are plenty here commenting in ways that counter the diarist's assertion that 100% here condemn the attack on Cheney.

          •  More outrage! (0+ / 0-)

            I don't see that. What I see is one or two (literally) examples of folks saying they wouldn't weep. (Which is not to say they don't condemn THE ACT, only THE OUTCOME). And these are overwhelmed by about 200 times as many comments suggesting that the killing of anyone is never justified.

            Still, you see fit to repeat this mindless assertion. Clearly, more energy spent on my part disabusing you of some notions is likely to be just wasted.

            -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

            by thingamabob on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:09:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Cheney should not be murdered. But... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peace voter, coigue, Molly Martinez

    ...I hope that he's convicted for his crimes and has to spend the rest of his life behind bars having to look at photos on his wall of the US troops and others he's helped send to their deaths, and those victims of his torture policies.  And so forth.

    It's good for your enemies to think you're a little crazy. As long as you can back it up.

    by dov12348 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:45:56 AM PST

  •  I haven't read all the comments (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    perro amarillo, peace voter

    but I figure someone has already said something about Cheney hardly being an "innocent."

    I would never wish death upon anyone (early retirement, perhaps), Cheney included.  But I cannot think of him as an "innocent."  He, more than any other single person, is responsible for the death and destruction that Iraq has become.

    "I am awash in goddesses!"

    by Marc in KS on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:59:33 AM PST

  •  I didn't consider it an assassination attempt (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RickD, peace voter, pontechango

    I think the press just painted it that way. The bomber just got lucky on timing and location and Cheney being the person there. I think everyone is over reacting. Didn't see Dick being upset, did ya?

    Then again- how do you know this too wasn't staged to get poll ratings back up? With this administration ANYthing is possible. And you and I both know THAT.

    Means-testing veterans is DEMEANING! Do YOU CARE? PLEASE HELP US. NOTE: Vet with PTSD. Doesn't play well with others.

    by glbTVET on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:06:40 AM PST

  •  I am NOT outraged. I understand. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    People like Cheney are why the French had a revolution a few years back....

  •  I wish Cheney (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, Molly Martinez

    a long, unprofitable, early retirement.  I condemn assassination attempts.

    Rightwing, where's the outrage?  Where was your outrage when Rep. Don Young used a fake Lincoln quote to call a Democratic senator a traitor?  Why do you constantly turn your head away when spokespeople of your party call the majority of Americans who want to get out of Iraq traitors?

  •  As I said in another post... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SeanF, Molly Martinez can't indict a dead guy.  Hands off our VP, terrorists.  We'll take care of him, in our own way, with time and justice on our side.

    In TX-32, visit Sessions Watch to keep an eye on Pete Sessions

    by CoolOnion on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:27:51 AM PST

  •  why post this diary? (9+ / 0-)

    Seriously, have you ever heard a Republican bemoan any attack on a Democrat?  Why are you reacting to any right-wing smearing?  The default position is that liberals don't support murder.  

    I really dislike this feeling that we need to prove anything to smear jobs, even pre-emptively.  

    I don't see why Cheney should get special treatment as opposed to any other US soldier in the Middle East.  Are we supposed to deplore every single attack on every single soldier over there?  If yes, shouldn't that be done in a blanket fashion, and not done in a way that makes it seem like it's bad to target US troops, but it's super-duper bad to go after the Vice President?  I think the latter point is particular relevant given that Cheney is the person most responsible for the war in the first place.

    By coming out forcefully against this attack, you are buying into the Republican authority structure, which says that Cheney's life is more valuable than the lives of the troops over there.  If you think it's necessary to do that to pre-empt right-wing smears, that's sad.  I thought we'd learned by now that no purpose is served by appeasing the right wnig.  If anybody says that liberals want to see Cheney assassinated, then say Who?  But let's not rally to the defense of a despicable man who really doesn't need or deserve our help.

  •  Dude. (6+ / 0-)

    The US has considered heads of state and their minions as legitimate targets for years.  The assassination attempts on Castro, anyone?  Anyone here remember the complicity of the US government in the coup in South Viet Nam that led directly to the death of Ngo Dinh Diem?  How many foreign heads of state have we deposed either directly (Hussein) or indirectly (Allende), and how many of those have died in the process?

    I don't advocate assassination as a means of removing Cheney from power.  That has to be done through legal means.  At the same time,  Cheney and other members of the Bush Regime are legitimate military targets of the Taliban and various sects in Iraq.   Why should our leasdership get a pass, when our soldiers are put into harm's way over there every day?

  •  What if someone tried to kill the V.P. (5+ / 0-)

    of the United States of America, and nobody cared!  That is really what we saw yesterday.  Anyone who remembers the assassinations in the '60s, as well as the attempt on Reagan's life, remembers the shock and concern with which that news was greeted.  Yesterday, more people reacted with indifference, or with a sense that justice had not been served by his escape.  Now we have this diary, a response to the Repugs falsely trying to take the high-ground.

    Is it clear yet that people do not care about Bush, Cheney, et al, since they stole two elections from the country, and mired us in this disaster of a War?  People feel, on a gut level, that these people are not validly elected, and do not deserve the respect given to elected officials.  We. . . just. . . don't. . . care. . . if . . . they . . . die.

    All politics is class-warfare.

    by dhfsfc on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:48:29 AM PST

  •  I Guess This Is The Lefties Hannity Meant (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BenGoshi, lisastar

    yesterday when he went on the air and said "Lefties everywhere are cheering the attempt on our vice president's life."

    Sean Hannity must really be able to read between the lines.  Because I never got that message ... AT ... ALL.  But he can go on to a "Lefy" website and find the cheering amongst the condemnations.

    Gawd that man's a genius.


  •  Oh nooooo! The Republicans are calling us names! (11+ / 0-)

    Let's run away and hide under the covers like we always do. All the right wing has to do is threaten to call us names, and most of us get on our knees  and kiss their toes, begging them not to and making all kinds of deals about how we'll clean out their ass cracks every day for a year if they just don't call us names. After all, that is the only reason Democrats are afraid to demand impeachment, because they don't want the right wing to call them names. The right wing so owns you guys. And it doesn't work in reverse. The right wing doesn't give a shit what you call them. It's definitely a master-servant relationship. Uh oh, here come some Republicans, and it look like they're about to call us names. RUN!!!

    Republicans are liars.

    by tr4nqued on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:56:38 AM PST

    •  not runnin away, I'm in their face here (0+ / 0-)

      I'm attacking them for their smears, their lies, their violent statements, and the refusal of the GOP to separate themselves from Rush, Sean, Ann, Bill, Fox News, and Michelle.  Oh YESSSSSSSSSSS

      •  Not the way I read it (5+ / 0-)

        This diary is awfully polite to the VRWC for allegedly being "in their face".

        You've confirmed legitimacy to their absurd frame by bothering to rebuff it.

        My other car is a pair of boots.

        by FutureNow on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:38:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Please update or delete this diary (0+ / 0-)

        You are perpetuating dubious information by assuming that there really was an assassination attempt.

        A purported Taliban spokesman asserted responsibility for a suicide bomb attack Tuesday at the main U.S. air base in Afghanistan and said it was an attempt to assassinate Vice President Dick Cheney. But U.S. officials disputed the claim, stating that Cheney's overnight stay at the sprawling Bagram Air Base had been unplanned and that he was well away from the blast.

        Essential funk: 'Indictment' by Antibalas

        by pontechango on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:47:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I wasn't criticizing you personally (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I was trying to make a more general point about how liberals respond to right-wing name-calling. The way I try to respond is the same way I would respond to a two-year-old who calls me names. If a two-year-old calls me a "doodie head," I wouldn't try to prove I'm not a doodie head. Rather, I would likely hardly even notice what the two-year-old had said and wouldn't respond at all but would just go on about my business. I think this would be an effective way to deal with the right wing. Attack them without mercy, but when they attack or offer counters to your attacks, ignore them like they didn't even say anything. Acknowledging their attacks grants them more credibility than they deserve. Or instead, one might use a right-wing attack as an excuse to launch one's own attack, which might have absolutely nothing to do with whatever the right-winger said.

        Republicans are liars.

        by tr4nqued on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:22:59 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  You also fail to ask the relevant question. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrutinizer, tr4nqued, Sharon in MD

    Would it be understandable if a person whose entire village had been wiped out took a shot at the people responsible for the invasion and occupation, and is it conceivable that it could involve at least an element of trying to protect your family/relatives, even if blowing yourself up in a crowd of people is not in itself a very nice thing to do?

    And I can't believe so may people seem to agree with the "innocent people" argument. Amazing.

    "George, my gut tells me that they have all along been trying to inflict enough damage that we'd leave." G.W. Bush to G. Stephanopoulos, 10/18/06

    by LodinLepp on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:56:54 AM PST

  •  Its a shame (0+ / 0-)

    The klan is at it again..  Spread their venom far and wide..

  •  Sorry but i DO NOT Condemn it! (4+ / 5-)

    You posted "We are not the people who call for killing innocent people." This is quite true, but Cheney is no way innocent. He is a war criminal, a murderer, and as close to the devil as you can get in America. He has no redeeming features.

    Now I would prefer to see him tried, his crimes exposed for all, and then hanged, but we all know that is not going to happen. I truly wish they had gotten him. If they had (or ever do) I will be dancing in the street with joy.

    Honestly, you wouldn't rejoice to see this inhuman dirt bag six feet under?

  •  I don’t have to beat my chest (0+ / 0-)

    Our friend Dave said:

    If you oppose killing an innocent person, say so.  If somebody in your party says something along these lines, denounce them or I will presume that you support them by default.

    While I agree we should point out the inconsistency of wishing Cheney ill for being an evil person, to assume I support such over the top invective because I do not denounce it is a bit much.  Sure there is a grain of truth to the concept that I am my brother’s keeper.  But presuming I believe some proposition just because I do not loudly proclaim the opposite is not consistent with tolerance, free speech, freedom of religion and a host of concepts we on the left hold sacred.

    Other than that, Dave is certainly right.  It is not nice to wish ill for others no matter how much you disagree or dislike them.

    Do the right thing 'cause it feels better.

    by John Boy on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:14:42 AM PST

  •  Cheney will be gotten by the Constitution... (3+ / 0-)

    not violence. I want a cilivized society and my country back. The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they turn and will turn nonetheless.

  •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, Sharon in MD

    I'm pretty sure it is the right wing media who are the ones who wanted the attempt to be successful.  They would have had a field day with it.

    * 3160 *

    by BDA in VA on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:36:28 AM PST

  •  Sorry, But... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chriscol, james risser

    I must admit I am disappointed in yesterday's near miss.

    So go ahead, call me a sick liberal.

    "Follow those who seek the truth. Beware of those who find it."

    by gnolti on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:39:06 AM PST

  •  Glenn Greenwald is all over this (11+ / 0-)

    And I couldn't express it better than he already has:

    The smoke had barely cleared from the suicide bombing in Afghanistan this morning, near a base where Dick Cheney was located, when right-wing pundits -- whose sole expertise seems to be in exploiting terrorism-related issues for political gain -- began their attempt to politically exploit the attack on or near Cheney. Seemingly in unison, they all went digging deep into the comment sections of various liberal blogs, found inappropriate and hateful comments, and then began insisting that these isolated comments proved something.

    It is only a matter of time before Brit Hume and Matt Drudge begin hyping the scandal of how liberal bloggers were expressing dismay that Dick Cheney wasn't killed, and Howard Kurtz will write a drooling profile of the Blogging Warriors who exposed this scandal and join in with stern condemnation over how terrible it is that the Left is so filled with venom and rage. Maybe ABC News' Terry Moran can even join his right-wing-blogging brother again and chime in about all the terrible Hate Speech on the Left.

    But what this predictable and moronic episode actually reveals is an axiom that journalists would do well to comprehend -- just as calling someone randomly at home and asking their opinion about a topic proves nothing other than what that individual thinks, the ideas and comments expressed by anonymous commenters at blogs prove nothing other than what those individuals think -- particularly in the absence of an attempt to show that the commenters are representative of the blog itself. Is that really that difficult a concept to comprehend? To know what the views are of a particular blogger or "bloggers" generally, one can read those bloggers' words.

    But stray, anonymous comments prove nothing. And those who rely on them to make an argument -- especially without bothering to make any effort to prove that they are reflective of anything -- should be presumed to have no argument at all. That is why they are relying upon such transparently flimsy and misleading methods to make a point. And the same principle applies to journalists -- those who write articles about "the blogosphere" by using random, stray comments (or mean emails they receive), by definition, have nothing to say, no point worth making.

    •  A primer on how the GOP Mighty Wurlitzer operates (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Spud1, DrWolfy

      And, thing is, chuckleheads like Kurtz consciously and gleefully join-in.


      We're working on many levels here. Ken Kesey

      by BenGoshi on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:42:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This works because so many can't be bothered (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BenGoshi, DrWolfy

        to think for themselves, and so welcome these nuggets that can so easily become their own ideas. It just happens that right wing sources like Rush and FOX are the spigots for it.

        17. Ne5

        In chess you may hit a man when he's down -- Irving Chernev, on Przepiorka v. Prokes, Budapest, 1929

        by Spud1 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:05:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Basic "thought police" stuff (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      John Boy

      Just ask any neighbor if they've ever had a "bad" thought about another person.  How many husbands or wives have said "I wish he/she was dead"?  "Minority Report" tries to find the criminal before the crime.
      One can long for a world without a Cheney, or a Bush, or a Coulter or a Ted Bundy or the guy that ran over your child while drunk, but actually doing something about it is a whole other ballgame and a whole other TV series called "Dexter".  

      "Whatever is calculated to advance the condition of the honest, struggling laboring man, I am for that thing." Abraham Lincoln

      by MontanaMaven on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:17:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  One problem (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bwintx, DrWolfy

    No one tried to kill Cheney in Afghanistan.  The timeline doesn't work.

    The Taliban found out from the press he was there and claimed him as the target of a previously planned attack to maximize their publicity.

    We can't stop here - This is bat country!

    by nightsweat on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:48:57 AM PST

  •  I dont have much sympathy for Cheney... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Molly Martinez

    He made this mess....As far as Im concerned, if he had the set of cahonjes that he tries to portray in the media, his ass would have been outside the green zone patrolling the streets in an unarmored vehicle -  just like the rest of our servicepeople.  All this "episode" underscores is how truly volatile the situation is.  While I will never condone the killing of innocent civilians (unlike Cheney), perhaps this will serve as a wake up call.  Although Im pretty skeptical of that considering that a similar episode happened to Rumsfeld when visiting the Green Zone when a rocket went through the hotel he was staying at....that
    genetic all star never changed his mind....

    Above all else, its pretty alarming that insurgents were tipped off about his arrival and suggests that clearly there are people we view as allies in Iraq who want to wreak havoc.  If this aint civil war and a message for us to pack up and leave, I dont know what else is.

  •  buying the hype (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BenGoshi, rainmanjr

    The bomb was about a mile from Cheney, who was safely inside the base at the time. If this was an assassination attempt, it was quite a poor one.

    Furthermore, Cheney's stay was unscheduled due to weather.

  •  Since when is "missed him by a mile"... (11+ / 0-)

    a "near miss"?

    A bomb goes off in a war zone a mile away from Cheney, and they call it an assassination attempt?

    My bullshit meter is steady on max with this one.

  •  Cheney a legitimate combattant (4+ / 0-)

    We're trying to kill Nasrallah and al-Sadr, what's the difference?

    - Israel has the right to exist, and responsibility to coexist.

    by Opinionated Ed on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:58:02 AM PST

    •  I tend to agree with the idea of Karma. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      What you envision, and work for, is what you'll get back.  Dick seems to envision a scary world where people lurk around each corner to spread death.  Sure, there are some who lurk but Dick has invaded an entire country to get them; and been looking in the wrong place.  He has worked for creating even further death and destruction. And, probably, done it for money.  That's technically murder.  Doesn't he believe in the death penalty for murder?  I believe he does.  
      John Lennon said, "Instant Karma's gonna get you.  Gonna knock you right in the head.  Better get yourself together.  Pretty soon you're gonna be dead."  And it was Earl who said, "Karma's a bitch."
      It wasn't an assassination attempt.  Dick wasn't even supposed to be there and he was literally a mile away.  That would have made him a casualty of war.  Not unlike over 3,000 of our people and over 600,000 (I believe) of theirs.
      If we must accept collateral deaths as part of war I could have accepted his.

      "Certain individuals aren't sticking to the plan." - Warren Zevon

      by rainmanjr on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:58:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  To any right-wing lurker or passerby . . . (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    onanyes, snazzzybird

    If you think you can speak for us, or predict our opinions, on anything . . .

    Please follow your beloved Vice President's advice as given on the United States Senate and "go fuck yourself."

  •  Sorry Rightwingers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NoMore, onanyes
    When I say i want him gone, that means I want him out of the White House, rich or poor and long forgotten.
    At best he can be allowed in a position of showing up on FOX Noise Channel once in a while to whine about all his efforts being torn down bit by bit with each succeeding presidency until every thing he did has been utterly invalidated and he's left with absolutely no legacy.
    Oh no, I want all of them to be alive and unhappy as the years pass by.

    If we have no freedom nor civil liberties, then what worth is our lives that we can not pursue living?

    by RElland on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:19:06 AM PST

  •  I mourn (7+ / 0-)

    those around the vice president who were killed even though I don't know their names.  I mourn those who were wounded too.

    Thanks for this diary!  

    BTW, yes, the wingnuts have been trying to say that liberal bloggers are lamenting that the VP didn't die.  Yet, I've yet to see any of the blogs that I visit say that.

    I really think this is pure projection on their part.

    When liberals saw 9-11, we wondered how we could make the country safe. When conservatives saw 9-11, they saw an investment opportunity.

    by onanyes on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:26:54 AM PST

  •  There is no need to make a martyr for the right. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    missreporter, historys mysteries

    That's partly why I condemn the assassination attempt.  Plus, I do not advocate violence to achieve our goals.  

    •  I'll agree with that point (0+ / 0-)

      While having Darth Cheney out of the picture would put much of Junior's Middle East adventures on hold (or on an accelerated schedule), who'd want to hear the right proclaiming Cheney their martyr?....that would be pretty sickening.

  •  post-attack, kinda hard to jail a suicide bomber (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MontanaMaven, BenGoshi, DrWolfy

    but that point aside, it seems like all that happened is there was an attack in the vicinity at the same time cheney was in the country and "they" have taken the opportunity to make it sound like his life was somehow threatened. the press loves it because its attention grabbing and the admin loves it for all sorts of reasons. its all a bunch of bullshit.

    Scooter wears indicty-whiteys!

    by skyterrain on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:29:12 AM PST

  •  I like this diary only because... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BenGoshi, historys mysteries

    you point out the hypocrisy of the right. "Mainstream" right wing pundits can gleefully talk about assasination all they want, and it's really disgusting. We're above that. No one here would advocate or take joy in the assasination of the vice president. It would be devastating to our country.

    Hating people is like burning down your own house to get rid of a rat. -Harry Emerson Fosdick

    by Jawis on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:34:42 AM PST

    •  In exactly what way would it be (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      "devastating to our country"? Could Dubya find anybody worse to appoint to fill Cheney's remaining term?

      I am in no way advocating violence or murder of anyone. I think Bush, Cheney, Rice, Gonzalez, et al, should be removed from office by the means provided in the Constitution: Impeachment. Trial. Conviction. Imprisonment.

      But, sorry, I just can't see how Cheney's removal, by whatever means, could be anything but an improvement, in that his poisonous influence could no longer be wielded to enable the continued death and destruction he has so strongly supported.

      If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.~~Lewis Carroll

      by Molly Martinez on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:07:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I want him alive and well . . . (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NoMore, DrWolfy, adrianrf

    . . . because the more Cheney opens his arrogant, yet uncannily wrong-on-everything, stupid-ass mouth, the more Americans see him and this Administration for the jackleg frauds -- and war profiteers -- that he/it is.

     Cheney's arguably the best reason, and advocate, for a Democratic White House we have.  We should buy him air time.

     The reasons, of course, nutters like Coulter and Beck advocate killing all those with whom they disagree are [a] it whips up the foaming-mouthers that make up their fan base, and, [b] it whips up the foaming-mouthers that make up their fan base.


    We're working on many levels here. Ken Kesey

    by BenGoshi on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:38:29 AM PST

  •  20 dead b/c he was at that base? Might be true? (0+ / 0-)

    If you can believe the Taliban report that they new he was there and organized a quick strike against the base. I don't think this is true.  But it is tragic, losing the twenty people, if this report is true.  Maybe Uncle Dickie should stay in the USA.  The people at the bases are very busy and don't have time for a VIP Photo-op.  They have things to do.  Couldn't they just have a picture of troops as a backdrop and have  Condi, Georgie, or Uncle Dickie have a picture taken in front of it?

    80 % of success is just showing up - Woody Allen

    by Churchill on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:42:24 AM PST

  •  It's a war zone (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Cheney went into a war zone.  An attack on that base was all par for the course.  

    So I guess you are buying into the whole line that this is a terrorist act?

    The fact that Afghanistan is still seeing violence and war is part of the bigger picture due to the fact that Bush and Cheney failed to complete the mission in Afghanistan and focussed on Iraq instead.

    I hate to break it to you, but I'm hearing average people on the street saying they wished they hadn't missed Cheney.  I'm talking independents that are sick of this administration, not the liberal activist types or partisan hacks.

    My attitude is Cheney should have known full well and good he was risking his life going to Afghanistan as it is a war zone.  With this administration, I'm so cynical that I suspect that Cheney wanted someone to take a swipe at would give them an excuse to ramp things up in their war on terror.

    Either way, I'm not going to say I want them to hit Cheney, but I'm sure not going to pretend that I'd be upset if they did either.

    •  If Shrub did Iraq because they went after Dad... (0+ / 0-)

      What will he do to Afghanistan for going after the guy who tells him he's King?  Shrub likes being King.

      "Certain individuals aren't sticking to the plan." - Warren Zevon

      by rainmanjr on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:02:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What are the names of the twenty dead ? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Freepers cruse our site and try to find some wild posting, that is usually up twenty minutes before it is taken down, and then say that all lefties do this, or say this, or whatever.

    Let's just attack them often, and without mercy.

    80 % of success is just showing up - Woody Allen

    by Churchill on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:44:21 AM PST

  •  No, we condemn terrorism (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharon in MD, Molly Martinez

    There were deaths yesterday from the terrorist attack, of which VP Cheney was only dimly aware a mere mile away.  The people who died yesterday dies as a result of terrorism.  We condemn terrorist acts of any kind.  
    I understand that the right will try to frame this as an attack on Cheney.  No one on this board would wish to go through a state funeral and all of the hyperbolic, ranting from the right for someone as vile and destructive as VP Cheney.  We would much rather that he is charged with his crimes, faces a trial and is imprisoned for what he has done.   But to say that we condemn an attempted assassination on him is to buy into the right wing spin.  I reject that completely.  That takes the focus off of the real victims of this heinous act of terrorism.

    -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

    by goldberry on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:46:10 AM PST

  •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LodinLepp, james risser

    I think I'm speaking for almost everybody here when I say that I unequivocally condemn the attempted assassination of Vice President Cheney in Afghanistan and that any person responsible for this cowardly act should be jailed for life at a minimum.

    You do not speak for me. I do not support the attempt but I understand it. Just being honest.

  •  YGBSM...right? n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. John Donne

    by scurrvydog on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:52:25 AM PST

  •  well...... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I would not advocate the rounding up of all the neocon power brokers in this administration for the purposes of assassination, but, neither would I go to their funerals.  Which makes me better than they are.  Their acts have led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people (Iraqis are still considered people by them, I think), and if anyone deserved to be murdered, they do.

    Unfortunately, I don't believe in capital punishment, but with Iran next up on the hit parade, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  Bush wanted Osama, dead or alive, isn't turnabout fair play?

  •  I unequivocally condemn any attempted (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    historys mysteries

    assassination. That's what courts of law are for. They determine guilt or innocence. Then, if guilt is determined, an official formal hanging (such as occurred recently in Iraq) is prescribed. Assassination is lawlessness. Let's fight for justice.

    -6.88/-5.64 * We won! We won!.... Now back on your heads.

    by John West on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:12:30 AM PST

  •  Damn straight! (3+ / 0-)

    I want Cheney brought to justice in front of the American people.  No terrorist is gonna deny me that!

    I don't want him or Bush dead.  Removed from office, yes.  Dead?  Hell no.  I want them to live in shame and infamy the rest of their days.

    Ya know, like Nixon.  A sad old relic of a worse time.  A cautionary tale to all who would try to do it again.

    But not dead.

    If there is a lower class, I am in it. If there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. ~Eugene Victor Debs

    by jjhare on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:12:55 AM PST

  •  regardless of the moment or manner of (0+ / 0-)

    Cheney's eventual death, I look forward to that happy day. I know he is bionic, but only partially & I feel confident that he WILL one day pass from this earth.

    May Darth Cheney, cold warrior colonialist, end of empire extraordinaire, God of All Oil Wars, be sentenced to an eternity of having to read every single  anti-Bush blog posting ever created while hunkered down in his nukular proof bunker with his freakshow surgical entourage & the sadly infinite scientific capacity to generate new members of the Frankencheney clan & a dwindling supply of elderly hunting companions to serve as hunting targets... we can just dump the postings into a text reader & pipe them in there. And we should take care not to strip out the repetitive tags & titles, that way it will take hundreds of years longer to listen to and be much more annoying.

    Not that I want his stardust eventually mixing with ours...

  •  We make jokes, but seriously, that was wrong (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    historys mysteries

    It makes me angry that terrorist were able to strike at one of our highest elected officials. It makes me more angry that this sort of thing is still a problem in Afghanistan. It makes me angrier still that the Taliban is still in existence! Why aren't they gone by now?!

    In case I haven't mentioned it lately, I'm from Oklahoma.

    by droogie6655321 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:28:43 AM PST

    •  why aren't they gone? (0+ / 0-)

      why are were WE there??!!!

      •  IT IS THEIR COUNTRY. They were happy (0+ / 0-)

        fighting among selves & each conquering army traipsing thru to "glory" for centuries. USA "helped" them with texts in their languages to stir up militarism and encourage strict fundamentalist jihad against "godless communists" of Russia--their neighbor. (Sorta like McCarthy era here.) We got our proxy war when Russia invaded them. We funded and trained and armed, thru CIA covertly thru Pakistanis ---- an assymetric war to drain Russia.
            This drew nutbars, like Osama, to help. Russia left, we left, and the hate cancer metastasized. Women were degraded and/or dead by fundie taliban. Fundies got worse. Osama came back to high ground. (synopsis -not total.Then....9/11.
            BETTER QUESTION IS -- why aren't WE gone?
           Should we tell Laura & Barney about this "one depressing bombing" on tv news or ask her to visit each dead victim's family?

        Unless all votes count, none count. REVOTE FL 13!

        by Neon Mama on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:49:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Who's joking? n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "Certain individuals aren't sticking to the plan." - Warren Zevon

      by rainmanjr on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:04:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Assassinations create heroes.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pink Lady

    It's best for him to die a slow painful death from end-stage syphilis or bone cancer; now THAT would be karma.... I want that P.O.S to suffer as much as possible for all the soldiers he sent to their deaths and for the ones who came back burned, and w/ missing limbs. Cheney is the definition of a chicken-hawk; a self-righteous neo-con who saw the Bush presidency as an opportunity for his "class" to "get their due".

  •  I'm against all murder, period. n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  I haven't read through all the comments here (6+ / 0-)

    Too many of them already, and my boss actually expects me to do some work today, so this point may have already been made.

    I somewhat understand the motivation of this diary, but, frankly, I think this sounds so defensive, and, in my opinion, it is a classic Democratic response that validates a Republican smear by denying it.

    This, in my opinion, is on a par with "Of course we support the troops..."  Just by repeating this over and over, Dems are validating the Repug smear and giving legitimacy to the fact that this should even be a question.

    We do not need to make such assertions, and we strengthen the Republican frame by doing so.

    Soldiers are required to do their jobs when politicians fail to do theirs

    by leftvet on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:38:45 AM PST

    •  More than few (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MontanaMaven, leftvet, maconblue

      posters in this thread are directly validating the smear campaign.

    •  I said much the same thing above (6+ / 0-)

      "Methinks the diarist doth protest too much" might be another way of putting it.

      So you deny that you're happy Cheney was targeted?

      I didn't say that!

      So you ARE HAPPY that Cheney was targeted?

      I never said that!

      So you have no opinion on whether it's okay to assassinate Dick Cheney or other officials?

      NOT TRUE! I have a very clear opinion!

      So you have a strong opinion about the killing of elected officials, but you don't wish to share it publicly?

      NO, NO, NO!! I only meant that our words can get and have been twisted and that what we are accused of is not at all what we meant!!

      So, in other words, there is a good reason to kill elected officials, but you are afraid that others won't understand your arguments?

      AAAARRGGHH!! NO!! I merely meant that what some people have said was misinterpreted, or not representative of the rest of us.

      Okay! I get it! Thanks for clearing things up. In a nutshell, some on the left would like to see elected officials shot, while there may be some on the left who are uncomfortable with saying as much. Thanks! And, by the way, do you still beat your children? Yes or no?

      -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

      by thingamabob on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:21:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  But is he actually "innocent?" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Sorry to give the other side ammo, so to speak, but Cheney is NOT innocent. He is the architect of this debacle and if I were an Iraqi, killing him is an act of warfare, not the killing of an innocent civilian.

  •  We absolutely have to denounce any (0+ / 0-)

    attempts on the lives of any elected officials.  While I have no love lost for the Bush-Cheney Cabal I most emphatically do not wish them to be physically harmed in any way.
    Challenging the right wing noise machine on their scurrilous attacks on us is the right way to go.

    Sunlight is the best disinfectant

    by historys mysteries on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:49:48 AM PST

  •  Democrats don't want Cheney dead (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Really. We don't. He's the poster boy for Republican malfeasance, ill will, incompetence and ugliness. As long as he's up there in plain sight, there is almost nothing we can do that won't make us look good by comparison.

    On the other than, if he were dead, Republicans could appoint someone more ... palatable to the position, and indemnify themselves against a double impeachment that would give us the executive branch. (Yes, that's a really unlikely scenario -- but not impossible.)

    So, I'm truly glad Cheney was not killed. I want him safe, sound and indicted.

  •  I don't want Cheney killed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I want him impeached, tried, convicted and sentenced to life at Guantanamo. It would be divine justice if we could declare him an enemy combatant and put him an orange jump suit and not give him any rights, but I'm a Democrat and, unlike Cheney, I believe in human rights.

    "Keep raisin' hell!" - Molly Ivins

    by MA Liberal on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:55:10 AM PST

  •  agreed, and thanks for saying it (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NoMore, ThunderHawk13, adrianrf

    I can't stand Cheney, I think he's a sociopath, but I don't want him dead - I just want him out of office where he can't do any more damage.  

    I will continue to make jokes about Cheney, because that's what you have to do with a vice-president who shoots old people in the face and speaks out against gay rights when he has a lesbian daughter and complains of a lack of civility in Wolf Blitzer interviews when he's told people to go fuck themselves on the FLOOR OF CONGRESS.   Among all the other hypocritical, ridiculous junk the guy's done.  He deserves to be mocked.  But, assassination attempts on U.S. officials, even ones I don't like much?   Not a fan of those.

    That said, the right-wing assholes are going to say what they want, regardless of whether there's any truth to it or not.  If they can find one doofus celebrating an assassination attempt, they'll make that their representative sample.  They are liars, and they know they're liars, and they'll do it whether we make our true stances clear or not.  They're clinging to an ideology that has been tested, and has failed, failed, FAILED, so, they're desperate, and will trump up anything they can.

    So, in short (although it's too late for that now ;) ), I'm glad the assassination attempt on Dick Cheney was - in the infamous words of the Google search - a miserable failure.  And the wingnuts can - in the infamous words of Dick Cheney - go fuck themselves.


    "I am a comedian and poet, so anything that doesn't get a laugh ... is a poem." - Bill Hicks

    by shadetree mortician on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:58:23 AM PST

  •  Makes me laugh, (6+ / 0-)

    these same right wing moonbats accusing us of hoping for an assasination, are those who have a death watch on Tim Johnson!   They have been praying to heaven that the Gov will appoint a Republican and they have control of the Senate!    

    What a bunch of hypocrits, these sickos are!

  •  well hey (4+ / 0-)

    at least now he can say he's seen combat.

    All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

    by SeanF on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:13:52 AM PST

  •  Gandhi, MLK, JFK, RFK (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silverbird, danger durden

    all assasinated.  Where are the assasinations of right wingers?  I'm not hoping it happens, just noticing a trend here.

    •  Well its easy to explain... (3+ / 0-)

      Those who promote change, especially at the expense of the established FOR the disenfranchised are the one's most likely to be targeted.

      Georgetown University College Democrats Blog:

      by The Hunter Gracchus GU Dems on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:47:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  there sure are (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Hunter Gracchus GU Dems

        more of the disenfranchised.  Perhaps they feel too powerless to even bother attempting assassination?  Or are they just more passionate about bringing about change by lawful means?  The point is, let's save the bs about how anonymous bloggers are saying mean things about cheney getting blown up and consult the historical record for which side has actually killed people.  

        Angry left?  You're damn right.  As Augustine put it: "Hope has two beautiful daughters, anger and courage.    Anger at the way things are and courage to see they do not remain that way."

  •  It was not an assassination attempt!!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    james risser

    U.S. says Cheney wasn't target of Afghan attack

    A purported Taliban spokesman asserted responsibility for a suicide bomb attack Tuesday at the main U.S. air base in Afghanistan and said it was an attempt to assassinate Vice President Dick Cheney. But U.S. officials disputed the claim, stating that Cheney's overnight stay at the sprawling Bagram Air Base had been unplanned and that he was well away from the blast.

    Geez.  The diarist bought into the right wing propaganda.

    Essential funk: 'Indictment' by Antibalas

    by pontechango on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:32:22 AM PST

  •  What a sad thing - was this diary necessary? (3+ / 0-)

    I am getting loster and loster these days ...

    Who is "We"? I consider 50 percent of commentators in this thread as helplessly trollish or purposefully obfuscating and confusing to any  reader.

    Was this an assassination attempt on Cheney? I think there is a lot of wishful thinking in believing that one.  

    First on the side of the Taliban suicide bombers, who claim it was an assassination attempt that "just failed short". Wishful thinking, Messieurs Talibanes stupidissimo.

    Second, all those friendly people inside the US, who use this so-called assassination attack on Cheney for propaganda purposes:

    a.) to trigger feelings of empathy with our granddaddy Cheney, who has been almost killed, the poor martyr. Wishful thinking, dudes of the "extreme right" Republican's noise machine.

    b.) to blame the "extreme left" Democrats for "wishing secretly Cheney would have been killed". Wishful thinking, bastards of the "extreme right" Republican's noise machine.

    My own wishful thinking is to get an answer to my
    only question I have right now: "Am I lost or are YOU lost?"  

    "False language, evil in itself, infects the soul with evil." ----Socrates

    by mimi on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:36:51 AM PST

  •  It's a crock to call it an assasination attempt (6+ / 0-)

    I condemn any of these suicide bombings, but this was no assasination attempt, just another routine bombing on a day when Cheney was in the area.

    This is nothing but a distraction from the fact that Cheney is now playing footsie with al Queda as he prepares for war with Iran.

  •  you are not speaking for me... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pontechango, Wayneman, adrianrf

    I think I'm speaking for almost everybody here when I say that I unequivocally condemn the attempted assassination of Vice President Cheney in Afghanistan and that any person responsible for this cowardly act should be jailed for life at a minimum.

    and, if you don't understand it better than diary states, you haven't been paying attention...

    first, it is doubtful that it was an actually an assassination attempt and is more likely a random act of violence.

    second, it was probably not the taliban for two reasons: they do not 'do' suicide bombs, and they do not care about the media and do not have 'spokesmen' speaking on their behalf.

    third, it was probably an al qaeda suicide bomber, it was not 'cowardly', and, well, i guess if you want to spoon up what is left of the body, you could put it into jail, but, that seems rather silly.

  •  I want the satisfaction... (0+ / 0-)

    ... of seeing Vice President Cheney impeached, convicted, and sentenced to life in a super max for his crimes against the American people.

    So yes, I don't want some Al Qaeda terrorist taking that opportunity away from me.

  •  Mark Twain I believe once said that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, puffy66

    wrestling with the pig just makes both of you dirty, and the pig likes it.

    We can ponder, rationalize, attempt to justify, explain, or otherwise dream about the mentality of a right winger; but there is no clearer explanation that I can find but Schadenfreude.

    Schadenfreude (help·info) is a German word meaning 'pleasure taken from someone else's misfortune.'

    They know they are no better than anyone else, but must maintain the illusion by pointing out every flaw detectible in anyone else and inflating it as great as possible. "Look at what those others did! They are EVIL!"

    Expect this to get worse. Much worse. For as their own discretions and lies become deeper and unable to defend or ignore, they must attempt to magnify any flaw they can find in us to the level of treasonous satanic worship by communist baby killers.

    It actually makes me feel better, for if we (the left) were truly evil and obviously helping terrorists, every average citizen would be able to see it clearly for themselves without the help of the right wing media maniacs and would have raised up in arms already to assasinate us as we stood. Because it is truly an invention of a sick mind, as they get more vociferous, the more I can take comfort that they are clutching at straws because they have nothing of substance to use for real justification.

    Where did we put those straws, anyway?

    George Orwell is banging on his coffin lid and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

    by snafubar on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:45:38 AM PST

  •  eh...maybe just 95% for me ;) n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peterbernard209, james risser

    Georgetown University College Democrats Blog:

    by The Hunter Gracchus GU Dems on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:46:41 AM PST

  •  Are we informing others... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSPS owl

    ...or reminding ourselves?

  •  But is Cheney an "innocent" person-? (4+ / 0-)

    Isn't this man (Cheney) a War-Criminal who himself is the one that is responsible for deaths of 100,000s of innocent people?

    Isn't this the man (Cheney) who led the effort to manufacture falsified evidence to allow him to go forward and kill innocent people-?

    You cannot possibly seriously compare the anti-Cheney sentiment with the type of character-attack stuff that is made by Hannity/Coulter/O'Reilly on people who never did the things that Dick Cheney did!

    Dick Cheney has real blood on his hands...

    He does not deserve therefore the same rights as innocent people do.

    Dick Cheney is a War Criminal.

  •  As with the death penalty, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I object to intentional killing.  Prison for Cheney gets my nod.

  •  Isn't this diary a little bit defensive? (7+ / 0-)

    Why would we support the attempted murder of anybody?  We represent a population that is even largely opposed to the death penalty.

    I think part of the problem of the Left is our defensiveness.  

  •  Frankley, I love the jokes about this. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    james risser

    I don't care how rude or disrespectful some think it is.  It has been fun to laugh for a day or two.

    I am NOT the one actually killing people!

  •  I'm a Democrat and I do not condemn this attack.. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rightiswrong, danger durden, felixelf

    because Democrats love terrorists, hate religion, hate America, want us to lose in Iraq, sympathize with OBL, lost teh Vietnam war, burned a hole in teh Ozone layer and killed Jesus.

    /end snark.

  •  I saw the H&C and see spot on this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    last night.  

    If Huffingtonpost was, indeed, caught with those posts on their website, that doesn't look good.  I'll explain in a minute.

    The DC insider, inside the Beltway Retarded Loser Dem "strategist" (blond white chick for FNC of course) was trying to get Huffington's back, but she betrayed her own ignorance of how that site is run.  She said anyone can sign up and post their comments, that they could just as easily be Republican Plants.  Which would be true on this blog.  And the comment would then be subject to peer review and, I hope!, expunged in due course.

    If your post shows up on Huffington Post, that means someone @ Huffington Post dot com read it and approved it first.  There is a real explicit process of approval at Huffingtonpost dot com, which means if it shows up, the site approved of it.

    Luckily, Sean was also ignorant of this, or he would have pointed this out to that Inside the Beltway Dem "Strategist."

  •  Bwaaa hahahaha (3+ / 0-)

    I don't "wish" Cheney had been killed because I don't think it can die, technically. But I would have laughed if he/it died, I cannot tell a lie. Cheney's a war criminal, a war profiteer, he/it deserves the firing squad. Although I think old Dick would just get up again like the Terminator, Cheney might need to be melted down.

    •  I really really really wish I was as nice as this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      diarist. I don't want the man to die anymore than I want the serial killer on death row killed. I would not, however, mourned the man's passing. I don't know what good his genetic progeny have (has?) brought to the world, but he is the bearer of some very nasty darkness.

  •  I disagree that Cheney is innocent, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, Spathiphyllum, BR Janet

    but I do not believe in killing anybody, guilty or innocent.  So, I definitely condemn this act.  Let's not forget that while it may have been an assassination attempt on Cheney, it was definitely a bombing that killed about ten people.

    So I see only tatters of clearness through a pervading obscurity - Annie Dillard -6.88, -5.33

    by illinifan17 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:29:59 AM PST

  •  I don't give a shiny fuck (6+ / 0-)

    what republicans think of me.  Or what they think of us.  They are sub-human and their opinion is less than worthless.  If they want to think that we cheered the attempt on Cheney's life, so what?  I don't think we should waste any energy trying to deflect 'name calling' from the likes of Hannity.  

    As someone upthread commented, why are Democrats so afraid of being called names?  Republican assholes love to be called names - everytime someone calls them 'reactionary' or a 'troglodyte' or whatever their popularity explodes - hence their extreme popularity in certain circles.  They never apologized for calling for various assassinations of Clinton or supreme court justices, so why should we waste any breath.  People admire a fighter, not a conciliator.  

    Democrats should respond to these types of questions by saying "Whether or not I condemn this assassination attempt, Cheney is an asshole who is destroying this country.  So is Bush.  So is anyone who supports them.  That makes you, Sean Hannity or whoever, an asshole, a country destroyer, and, like every other right winger, probably a conflicted closeted homosexual.  And that's all I'm going to say on the matter!"  We should not by respond by engaging in self-flaggelation and appeasement like this diary.  

    It turns out that Bush IS a uniter... he united the intelligent half of the country virulently against him.

    by fizziks on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:42:09 AM PST

    •  sub-human? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DSPS owl

      I don't think so.

      They may be assholes.

      They may be filled with hatred toward Muslims and support political ideologies that undermine the common good, not to mention the Constitution.

      They may also be warmongers, but sub-human?

      No.  They are very human.

      "I think the Iraqi people owe the the American people a huge debt of gratitude." - George W. Bush

      by Karmafish on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:06:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  About that anonymous quote wingnuts are frothing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    at the mouth over....  are were sure Michelle Malkin didn't post if herself?

    I promised my family they won't see me dragged from my home by men in black, dangling off ropes from helicopters.

    by Junglered1 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:43:55 AM PST

  •  Can an explosion that takes place... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, Silverbird, BR Janet

    three miles away from a person truly be considered an assasination attempt?  If that's true, someone tried to steal my wallet yesterday.  Seriously though, I wish JFK, RFK, MLK, and Malcolm X were lucky enough to have assasination attempts take place 3 miles away from them.

  •  I do oppose killing innocent people (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mehitabel9, DSPS owl, LynneK, adrianrf

    I also oppose killing guilty people.  

    But I'm all in favor of giving them their day in court.  And, in Cheney's case, the sooner the better.

    Dividing is easy. It's sticking together that's hard. - jotter

    by Eddie Haskell on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:29:04 AM PST

  •  Damned Straight, davefromqueens (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Dick Cheney?

    He's ours, dammit. We don't want to see any assassination disrupt the perp-walk that Fitz had best have planned for him.

    We don't want to see justice denied over vengeance.

  •  It was NOT an attempt on Cheney (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Suicide bombings take planning, and Cheney's visit wasn't even announced until he was practically there.

    There's a chance that this bomber moved the date up by a day or so, but basically this terrorist got lucky and got some press.  There was NO attempt on Cheney; it was a coincidence in a violent place.

    Besides, Cheney is probably a hero to al qaeda--he and bush have been playing right into their hands:

    Let's see, bush and cheney...

    1.  Got the US bogged down in an unnecessary war that drains our resources.
    1.  Undermined US moral authority in the world by ignoring Geneva Conventions and other treaties, and encouraging torture.
    1.  Doesn't "care" about catching Osama bin Laden.
    1.  Stopped/limited previous US involvement in Palestinian/Israeli peace process.
    1.  Worked to curtail civil rights and privacy rights in America.
    1.  Encourages radicalism in Iran and other places with blustery rhetoric.

    Hell it's no wonder that terrorist financiers give money to the GOP.

    "War is the product of politicians not doing their job properly" --General William T. Sherman.

    by jrcjr on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:39:08 AM PST

  •  Right (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    He's a dick, and he is not our dick except in the most general sense of being a fellow American... But that is more than enough to defend him against any threat to his life and basic rights foreign or domestic.

    Not a sentiment many wingers would indiscriminately offer, of course.

  •  Why do we let them get away with this (0+ / 0-)

    The Right always seems to utilize fringe elements and extremists to portray mainstream democrats/progressives.

    Why not hit back? It seems to be that the proper response would be to show how ridiculous that assertion is by providing examples of 'mainstream conservative views' as those expressed by the likes of Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO), Jerry Fallwell, Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-MN), Glenn Beck, etc.

  •  We 100% condemn (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    violence which includes targetting civilians any time, any where, by any one, whether Cheney is in the neighborhood or not.

    The Republicans are defunding, not defending, America.

    by DSPS owl on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:52:25 AM PST

  •  I condemn the Taliban 100% (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Southern Mouth

    Period.  I don't have to further condemn them for this attack.  They've done enough to make themselves outside the realm of any reasonable person's sympathy.

    That said, all this handwringing over a supposed attempted assasination of Cheney looks like crocodile tears.  He's a leader of one of the forces in a war zone, and he's a legitimate military target.  An attack on him deserves no special condemnation over and above that which any attack deserves.

  •  That's the right-wing noise machine's SOP -- (0+ / 0-)

    accuse the Left of doing exactly what they are doing.  A classic case of projection.

    Why, oh why, do they continue to get away with it???

    Our troops won the war. Bush lost the peace.

    by snazzzybird on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:54:13 AM PST

  •  Suicide bombings common in Afghanistan (0+ / 0-)

    I don't think there was an assassination attempt on Cheney.  He just happened to be in Afghanistan on a typical day.  There have been 139 suicide bombings there in the past year.  The media have largely ignored this until now, but maybe this incident will bring the Taliban resurgence into focus.

    "Everything's shiny, Captain. Not to fret."

    by rmwarnick on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:55:43 AM PST

  •  Um, WHO sent Cheney there?????? (0+ / 0-)

    It WASN'T the Democrats that sent Cheney into harm's way.

    Secondly, I absolutely do not want to see Cheney assassinated.  Standing trial is my preference.

    One of my BIGGEST problems with this Republican bunch and some of their followers is their apparent inability to sort out WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT!  They remind me of a little kid who consistently blames "the other kid" and holds fast he/she is victimized.  I just want to shake some of them and say "Grow up!"  And the rest of you "quit gathering around and screaming 'fight fight'".

  •  Yeah, those loosers. They can plan 9/11, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    missreporter, samfish

    penetrate all our defenses, hijack planes left and right, ram them at will into buildings, totally confuse the administration, etc. etc. but carry out an attack right on their own soil and they fail, badly.  Pathetic.

    Of course, it could be a false flag operation.  Cheney, Condi, Rove, et. al. can only run and hide for so long until they need to break the gaze on Scooter's trial.  

    The meek shall inherit the earth.... six feet under!! Liberals and progressives, stop being meek!

    by FightTheFuture on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:14:31 AM PST

  •  I'll have to do some research, but.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    missreporter, dangangry

    I recall reading somewhere that one can't actually "kill" Satan's spawn.

    Maybe "bind" him with incantations and holy water, but "Kill?" I don't think so.

    Republicans: Proudly placing yellow smiley-face stickers on the face of doom since 1969 -8.88 -5.08

    by SecondComing on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:18:03 AM PST

  •  I oppose assassination attempts (0+ / 0-)

    It doesn't matter who the person is, how "evil" he/she is (not that I'm saying that I don't believe Cheney is evil). Of course, I don't really believe that an assassination attempt was made in this particular instance, due to suicide bombings being rather a common occurance in that area, combined with the fact that Cheney's "visit" was supposedly "unannounced".

    "Truth never damages a cause that is just."~~~Mohandas K. Gandhi

    by LynneK on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:22:14 AM PST

  •  I really condemn the abhorrent idea (0+ / 0-)

    of killing.  Period.  And I, for one, hope that Cheney lives his days out naturally.  I do not wish violence upon anyone.  And I will kick ass on anyone who says different.  

  •  Very skeptical about this crap (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    samfish, pghred

    I do not believe ANYTHING that this administration claims. Is there any proof that the terrorists actually claimed it was an assassination attempt? They would make this up just for the propaganda, just to make the idiot draft dodger Cheney look heroic.

  •  Oh yeah? I condemn it 110%!! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lisa, John Boy, flumptytail

    Anyone who does not condemn this attempted assasination to the extent that they exceed the basic rules of mathematics is not as much a patriot as me.

    "One: Cut a hole in the box..."

    by Dissento on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:34:26 AM PST

  •  I'll be honest (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    missreporter, Feeling Blue, adrianrf

    I'm glad Cheney wasn't assassinated by whoever "tried" to kill him the other day.  I honestly am.  I mean it when I say I hate death.

    But honestly, if Cheney were to die, I wouldn't care.  I'd probably even pour myself a glass of wine.  
    The guys a true scumbag.

    Hi, NSA!  

  •  Too many comments to read them all (0+ / 0-)

    but has anyone posted a link to any instance of Republican/Right-wingers claiming this:

    there is an organized attempt by Republicans and their talk show minions to try and portray "The Left" (Defined as anyone who disagrees with a conservative at least 10% of the time.) as wild eyed radicals who wish Cheney had been assassinated.  That's bullshit!

    I'm curious as to where the basis for that statement came from.

    •  batting practice fastball (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      from Rush (ugh--I need a shower now)

      We have people commenting at the Huffington Post wishing that Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, whoever, had succeeded in assassinating Dick Cheney!

      Another one: "Too bad they missed."

      The next comment: "You can't kill pure evil. Like an exorcism you have to drive a stake through it." The next comment: "If at first you don't succeed..." Next comment: "Better luck next time, Taliban. What a different world we would be living in today if they had succeeded. Dr. Evil escapes again. Damn." "Sounds like a BS attempt. The VP's inside some sort of compound and they blow up a bomb at the front door? C----t. At least lob a few grenades into the compound," presumably to kill Cheney. "They missed? Damn it. I hope they try again before he leaves." Not all the comments are this way, but a good number of them are, and we'll link to this particular post at Huffington Post on so you can go right to it and see it yourself. This is sick stuff, and it's not the first time this kind of death wish has appeared. By no means is it the first time you can find death wishes on left-wing blogs and websites when it comes to either the president or the vice president.

      News Hounds reporting on Hannity and <font size=0>colmes</font>:

      Leave it to FOX News to spin the assassination attempt on Dick Cheney as part of some kind of liberal conspiracy. After a brief report on the actual events, Hannity & Colmes flowed seamlessly into a story about comments on Huffington Post threads expressing regret that the would-be assassins had missed their mark. Arianna Huffington issued a statement denouncing such comments and affirming that any such comments would be removed. But that wasn’t good enough for Sean Hannity. He tried to argue that Huffington approved of such remarks and that the Secret Service should be investigating.

      from Free Republic:

      To: mkjessup

      I don't want to see the Clintons victimized by violence. That would put me in the same category with the leftist whackjobs who wish Cheney had been killed.

      134 posted on 02/27/2007 6:45:05 AM PST by popdonnelly ([Democrats] are jubilant at our disasters and are cast down when the rebels are defeated -Sept. 1862)
      [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies ]

      To: popdonnelly

      Anyone know what the suicide bomber's DU screen name was?

      140 posted on 02/27/2007 7:00:15 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (Don't screw with the Kitties)

      To: Gigantor
      So, the Religion of Peace attempts to MURDER the Vice President of the USA and you hear ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THE FORM OF OUTRAGE FROM THE MARXISTS IN SODOM ON THE POLTOMIC!!! If it had been Hillary they tried to kill, that is all you would be hearing. Instead, secretly, the Marxists, are saying, "damned, nearly had him."
      142 posted on 02/27/2007 7:04:14 AM PST by RetiredArmy (America has lost it's Effin' mind and will never recover.)
      [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

      "Quick, do a head count! Are we missing a Democrat?"

      Kerry's in Cambodia - or so he says.
      Al Gore's in Hollywood.
      Hillary's in the war room, urging her flying monkeys to bring her back the nomination.
      Bill Clinton - we won't go there.

      Any other moon bats we can't account for????
      177 posted on 02/27/2007 1:15:58 PM PST by Herakles (Diversity is code word for anti-white racism)
      [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies ]

      needless to say my first cynical thought was that the HuffPo and DU comments were wingnut troll posters deliberately trying to make liberals look bad, but that's a story for another day.

      Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.

      by TrueBlueMajority on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:59:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I oppose killing any people (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I don't think Cheney is at all innocent, but I still oppose killing him.

  •  I don't want ANYONE hurt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I object to the war for a vast number of reasons, pretty much all the same reasons that most people here object to it.  Top of the list is precisely the same reason I am distressed about the attempt on Cheney's life: I don't want people to get hurt.

    People were killed in the attempt on Cheney.  People who did nothing more than be in the vicinity.

    The attempt was cowardly beyond belief.  And, as much as I and many other people go off on him and his policies, Dick Cheney is a human being.  And trying to hurt or kill him is Just Plain Wrong.

    If you feel he has done wrong, you bring him to justice, under the law.  You do not attempt your own vigilantism; you are not your own law.

  •  The right to try and hang (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    deafmetal, dangangry, thirtyplus, adrianrf

    Dick Cheney for treason belongs to the American people

  •  Seems to be much less than 100% in these comments (0+ / 0-)

    There are (for simplicity's sake) generally four types of comments here:

    1. Those who obviously and sincerely agree with davefromqueens in actually condemning any attempt to assassinate the US Veep;
    1. Those who attempt to sidestep the question by wondering whether the suicide bomber was targeting Cheney or even knew he was at Baghram (an interesting but irrevelevant issue since he was there and in any case, the bomber killed several Americans and a dozen or more hapless Afgans);
    1. Those who offer a stiff sort of agreement that they don't want Cheney dead but he really is evil, guilty of mass crimes and should rot in prison (or in one poster's view, die slowly of a painfult disease); and
    1. Those who state bluntly their diaagreement and affirm that they wished Cheney had been killed.

    People, this is not a good lineup of responses for any group of Americans.  Those of you who are too young to remember JFK's murder should know that vile things were said about the man in the days after Dallas by Americans who detested him for one reason or another.  For example, some white schools in the South erupted in celebration over the (supposed) civil rights crusaders' death and quite a few news media reported on vicious comments from assorted KKK types in Dixie.  At the same time, I myself heard within minutes of the word that the President had died from a young woman I knew who fancied herself a "revolutionary socialist" the most dreadful expressions of enthusiasm that this political opponent had been laid low.

    To be blunt, far from everyone commenting here seems to grasp that the Taliban-al Qaeda crew would just as gleefully kill the entire DailyKos crowd as Cheney.  Some do; lamentably not all.

  •  Well they are right about me... (0+ / 0-)

    I guess I'm one of the zero percenters.

  •  If you oppose killing an innocent person, say so (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But... Cheney isn't an innocent.

    Look, I DON'T want him murdered.  Even less do I want people around him blown up and killed by people trying to get at him.  However, by going into a war zone he made himself a more than legitimate target.

    Must have been shocking to realize that things are so bad that Islamists can get that close to an almost head of state.

    Dana Curtis Kincaid Ad Astra per Aspera! The enemy is not man, the enemy is stupidity.

    by angrytoyrobot on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:58:22 AM PST

  •  okay, i do condemn any assassination attempt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    danger durden

    on Cheney.

    instead, I wish him an hour with Jack Bauer.

    that'll do just fine.

    -6.63, -5.95 "When the violence causes silence, we must be mistaken..."

    by missreporter on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:06:25 PM PST

  •  I Don't Think Bombs Kill Vampires (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LodinLepp, dangangry

    Unless they are packed with silver bullets or wooden stakes or somesuch.

  •  I am glad that he was not killed but only (0+ / 0-)

    on the general principle that I do not wish to see any human being killed. I don't consider his life or death to be more important than that of any other person.

    I don't consider him more valuable because he is an American. And not being a worshipper of the State I am completely cold to the idea that he is more important than those who were killed because he is the vice president.

    If I worry, will the future change?--Quai Chang Caine

    by Enjoy Every Sandwich on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:24:11 PM PST

  •  Headline is "absurd" (0+ / 0-)

    "We know for a fact that there has been recent intelligence to suggest that there was the threat of a bombing in the Bagram area," Collins said. "It's clear that there are suicide bomber cells operating in this country. There are some in the city of Kabul."

    Tuesday's bombing killed about 20 Afghan civilians, a U.S. soldier, a U.S. contractor and a South Korean soldier outside Bagram while Cheney was meeting with officials inside the base, an attack the Taliban claimed was aimed at Cheney but which officials said posed no real threat to the vice president.

    The attacker never attempted to penetrate even the first of several U.S.-manned security checkpoints at Bagram, instead detonating himself among a group of Afghan workers outside the base.

    "The Taliban's claims that they were going after the vice president were absurd," Collins said.

    Essential funk: 'Indictment' by Antibalas

    by pontechango on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:24:32 PM PST

    •  Headline "absurd" according to NATO spokesman (0+ / 0-)

      Accidentally clipped this idenitifying info.

      Tom Collins, the top spokesman for NATO's International Security Assistance Force.


      "The Taliban's claims that they were going after the vice president were absurd," Collins said.

      Essential funk: 'Indictment' by Antibalas

      by pontechango on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:27:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What attempted assassination? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda, pontechango, libbie, Mehitabel9

    From what was described in the media, the bombs were never near Cheney, the terrorists never saw him, and he was never anywhere near the area of impact. I think that an "assassination attempt" requires that the assassins have to actually get near the target. We can condemn the "plot to assassinate Cheney", if there is evidence of one, but let's not get carried away with this. There have been two assassination attempts on President's in my lifetime - Reagan and Kennedy.  I don't know how many plots there were, but I'm sure there were many, and I don't think we should be blowing this out of proportion.

    •  Correct (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      This has been blown way out of proportion.  when you consider that this administration has given money to the Taliban or Al Quaeda in their convoluted way, would it be true justice if he was blown away by the very people that he paid to kill other?

      "...the ideal government should be like a sane person's conscious mind!" David Brin

      by libbie on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:51:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, it would not be justice (0+ / 0-)

        And I don't want him dead. I would much rather he live and eventually be exposed as the incompetent fraud he is. I won't waste time grieving if Cheney drops dead of a heart attack or something, but that doesn't mean that I think he "deserves" to die, just that I don't care enough about him to grieve. I won't celebrate, either, and I certainly am not a perfect enough human being to decide when and where it is "right" for somebody to bet "blown away".

  •  Well, number my comment as one of (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    danger durden

    those who's sorry they missed. Better Deadeye Dick than even one of our soldiers.  If that makes any of you compare me to the right wingers (it shouldn't because I'm not), then so be it.  

    Mind, the Afghan war is the "right" war, unlike Iraq, but even there, Dim Son and Deadeye have failed our military by not having enough US soldiers there, nor providing the ones that are there with the equipment/support needed.


    For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee. ~ Proverbs 3:2

    by 99 Percent Pure on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:53:18 PM PST

  •  He might be Darth Cheney, (0+ / 0-)

    but he's OUR Darth Cheney.

    Same goes for Dumbya.

    Just cuz the right-wing fantasizes about the many ways they'd enjoy killing their opponents and real or perceived enemies, doesn't mean everyone gets a rise from senseless death.

  •  Hmmm. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    grndrush, Panda, LodinLepp

    I think classifying this as an "assassination attempt" is overstating the case, but that's just me.  It's not clear if his presence at the airbase was known, and the suicide bomber never got within a mile of him.  The most that can be said is that he was the possible target.  Maybe.  And sure as god made little green apples, he ain't no "innocent".

    Besides, in Afghanistan, Cheney would be an enemy combatant, and as much fair game -- to them -- as any US soldier.  Wouldn't he?

  •  I condemn the attack (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    That said:

    1. It isn't obvious to me that it was an actual assassination attempt - at most, it was an extremely poorly executed failure of an attempt.  IMHO, it was more likely a claim-of-opportunity... if I was wearing a TFH, I'd think it was disinformation to shore up support in the US for the administration.
    1. Regardless of personal feelings about VP Cheney, an attack on him is genuinely an attack on the United States and worth condemnation. If he is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, then he should be escorted from office in an orange suit, not returned in a box.
    1. Even if wasn't an assassination attempt, it still deserves full condemnation, as a whole lot of bystanders were killed and injured.
    1. However, the VP isn't exactly a neutral target - If we still consider ourselves at war with the Taliban, it is plain stupid to get all huffy when it becomes obvious that the Taliban still considers itself at war with us.

    Never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and truth. -- Henrik Ibsen

    by mik on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:17:36 PM PST

  •  congratulations (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    danger durden, Diaries

    this is the stupidest diary title I've ever seen on DailyKos.

    Anyone who read the newspaper articles knows that there was no assassination attempt.


    Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

    by alizard on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:29:22 PM PST

  •  No assination attempt happened. It was a media (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda, danger durden, VA02 femocrat

    attempt to create news, or maybe a stupid Taliban attempt to gain credibility. Look. The "bomber" was on foot, still outside the first check point with three more to go, 3 friggin miles from Cheney, and I can't believe he knew his exact location.
    Maybe he was just a suicidal idiot hoping to cash in on the "76 virgins" deal.

  •  yep (0+ / 0-)

    well said.

    Check out my new book!! Pre-order Framing the Debate, today...

    by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:46:24 PM PST

  •  Gee, just how BAD IS AFGHANISTAN ... (0+ / 0-)

    Gee, just how BAD IS IT that a bomb got that friggin close?????

    Pelosi and Reid ought to call separate conferences condemning the bombing.

    Drag it out. Have each of the Dem Prez candidates also condemn this assassination attempt.

    The con talking heads are morons for continuing to point out that Bush dropped the ball in Afghanistan and let al Qaida's homebase, where bin Laden planned the 9/11 attacks, fall so far backwards.

    And all this right after Cheney told Musharraf that Dems might cut off aid if Pakistan didn't help track down al Qaida... To which Pakistan fired back that the Americans (Bush) let the Afghani border turn into a seive.

  •  Violence is not the way to go. (0+ / 0-)

    Because then you are sinking down to terrorist levels. What if you become that which you are trying to eradicate?

  •  i've thought about this diary for a while (3+ / 0-)

    and now join those who say it's a bad idea.

    It's totally answering the question of when we stopped beating our wife. And it assumes the left will ever placate the right and somehow "make nice" with them. If it's not this, it'll be something else. We are and will remain traitors to them. Who gives a fuck. I don't give a flying fuck what they think about me or the left or my patriotism, cuz quite frankly, I am fighting to undermine their version of America, and they are fighting to undermine mine. They are my traitors. I am theirs. It’s war without bullets. So this kind of pandering is bringing a knife to a gunfight.

    Oh, and for the record, as demonstrated by some comments, your 100% figure isn’t even accurate.

    All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

    by SeanF on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:17:06 PM PST

  •  I want to see Cheney on trial (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I believe in the idea of justice, and that murdering someone, no matter how horrible of a person they are, is not justice.  So no, I don't want to see Cheney murdered.  I would like to see him go on trial, and hopefully be in prison for the rest of his life.

  •  I 100% condemn the use of violence to.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Boris Godunov, Panda
    get rid of anyone - even deadeye dick.

    But we need rid of him - Impeach, Impeach, Impeach and do it now!

    I told you the dopes are going to inherit the earth anyway - Diz Moore

    by Newspeak101 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:35:40 PM PST

  •  IF it was an assassination attempt... (0+ / 0-)

    Then it would be totally understandable why it was attempted. I would especially understand even more if it was an ally or an American considering the incredible contempt the man has shown for the citizens of the USA and especially the chaos he has wrought upon the middle east and our military through a carefully orchestrated campaign of lies the he and his cabal of beady-eyed mole-men foisted upon the world.

    I could easily picture, for instance, Mr. Wilson getting even for Cheney putting his wife's life in danger and ruining her career. I don't think a court in the world would convict Wilson if he off'd outed Cheney.

    So, you see, it could be blowback which has to be considered an occupational hazard for a deceitful prick who dabbles in death.

  •  I'm against the death penalty... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Even for Cheney.

    Certainty generally is illusion, and repose is not the destiny of man. - OWH

    by blockbuster on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:01:00 PM PST

  •  Forward Comrades! (0+ / 0-)

    Take a stand!  We have nothing to lose but our chains!

    As an Iraqi-American academic born and raised in New Orleans, this voter is not pleased.

    by naltikriti on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:07:40 PM PST

  •  Killing is bad, bad, bad - that's #1 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But for #2, I have something fiendish and rather horrific to report: when I first heard the news, I found that I'd rather effectively dehumanized Dick Cheney.  Terrifying, in terms of the moral, and telling, in terms of the effects of 6+ years of Bushian warmongering, lawbreaking, torturing, indefinite prisoner-holding and just plain old-fashioned superchronic lying 24/7, all in service to the real god these mothers worship: Mammon.

    I found that I hadn't dehumanized Cheney to the point of wanting to see him dead; that, I am telling you, is (personally re: my soul) good news to report.  However, is this feeling any better - the feeling called no feeling whatsoever that Cheney's life was threatened?  None, zero, zilch, nada?  No empathy and no emotion for this most public of servants?  A man who I've never met, who is utterly repellant to me but remains a man I don't know and should think twice about judging?  Is that any better than wishing Cheney'd died?  I submit that it's not - and that I sure as fuck am not the one to blame for feeling that way, either.

    I fully and firmly believe that actions are what matter, period.  Words are so much shit, when standing in for action.  Cheney and Bush have, through their actions, worked to dehumanize themselves over this long, long period of years, and if that's paradoxical or ironic, okay, fine, but know this - those motherfuckers created a situation where their deaths will, like it or not, be cheered the world over.  I am not saying I'd be one of the cheering masses; I am saying that the death of a human-hater extremis would sorely tempt a cheer's eruption from my throat.  That little fact has absolutely nothing to do with me or my moral/ethical code/structure and everything to with the world-enactment of Bush's and Cheney's moral/ethical codes.  

    Just had to say that.  And this: in my life, I have never felt this way about anyone save outright sons of bitches.  I guess that says it all.

    Please visit

    by Nathan Hammersmith on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:09:21 PM PST

  •  "We are not the people who call for killing...... (0+ / 0-)

    innocent people"

    EXACTLY!! That's why I wish the motherfucker had be ripped apart!!!!

    •  Me too (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Calling for innocent people's deaths is bad. Hoping someone who's (in my opinion) just as destructive and evil as say Mussolini, Hitler or Stalin, deserves getting blowed up. After all, dead-eye is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, in collusion with the shrub. He also helped perform a bloodless coup that installed himself & the shrubby into the WH, so they could go about their PNAC plans of world domination.

      "We are continually faced with great opportunities which are brilliantly disguised as unsolvable problems." -- Margaret Mead

      by flashlass on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:57:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Using that logic (0+ / 0-)

    that must mean there were assassination attempts on Bush during his secret trip to the airport hangar near Baghdad on Thanksgiving, 2003. Bush trip...Violence

    And again on Tuesday, June 13, 2006, The Chimp landed.
    Series of explosions (Northern Iraq...close enough)

    Yeah, yeah....farfetched but so is any attempt on Cheney. This was a coincidence at best and any credit, real or imagined, claimed after the fact is pure speculation. The only thing missing is a note on a flaming arrow with a confession from Iran.

  •  Was there really an attack on Cheney or was it (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda, 5x5

    an attack somewhere near Cheney that they are now taking credit for?

    I believe it was a "surprise" visit - how exactly did they know he was coming?  

    I'm guessing it was a scary coincidence that a bomb exploded near a base that we should have control over...

    Next time I tell you someone from Texas should NOT be president of the United States, please pay attention. In Memory of Molly Ivins, 1944-2007

    by truebeliever on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:55:29 PM PST

  •  eh, screw it (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    munky, danger durden, dirtfarmer

    I wish the guy got blown up. He deserves it. He's an evil P.O.S. who has helped put the world in this shambles it's in. Dead-eye Dick is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, and the shitty condition of this country today. Why wouldn't I wish harm on the nefarious asswipe?

    "We are continually faced with great opportunities which are brilliantly disguised as unsolvable problems." -- Margaret Mead

    by flashlass on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:55:33 PM PST

  •  I'm no hypocrite, I'd not cry if some... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    danger durden

    ...half-baked terrorist, probably CIA trained, blew Dick Cheney to kingdom come; I probably call it poetic justice. That aside, I don't think they made a credible attempt on the don't kill the boss or the chickens laying the golden eggs.

    You might get the impression I don't like Cheney and you'd be right! I think he is a Fascist prick who has alrelady lived too long and been the direct cause of way too much suffering and death. He should inherit a boxcar load of gold and it not be half enough to pay his medical expenses.

    The young man who has not wept is a savage, and the old man who will not laugh is a fool. George Santayana

    by Bobjack23 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:10:02 PM PST

  •  I condemn it also! (0+ / 0-)

    Now, if it had succeeded...

    Somebody really needs to tell the White House that "1984" is a cautionary tale, not a political guidebook.

    by jabbausaf on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:32:48 PM PST

  •  This was a despicable act, yes. (0+ / 0-)

    Just as are the killings of innocent life.  Will anyone ever remember (or ever know) the names of the 21 people who actually did die in that blast?

    I don't see any outrage from the Right for thier lives.  This war was in many ways joined -- and certainly broadened -- on the advice and counsel of Dick Cheney, and he may well be in the eyes of the Taliban a legitimate target.  We, after all, are targeting their leaders.  

  •  Absolutely (0+ / 0-)

    Dick Cheney, as foul as he is, has a family who cares for him and love him. He's a human being. Highly flawed, in my opinion. Dangerous. And other foul things....but I don't want him physically harmed. No decent person does.

    Our side, unlike Republicans and the religious folks (same thing) call for assassinations. We don't.

    Whackos get their info thru the Christian right. We'll bring them out to vote against something and make sure the public lets the whole thing slip past them.

    by chemsmith on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 05:42:23 PM PST

  •  Speak For Yourself Please (0+ / 0-)

       If they were trying to assasinate Uncle Fester, I am sorry that they failed and wish them better luck next time. I oppose the killing of human beings. Unfortunately graveyface doesn't get accorded that status. He is responsible for the deaths of more than 100,000 people, certainly not in the same category as Stalin or Hitler, but certainly no less deserving of meeting his maker as soon as possible.

  •  Back and forth it goes. Where it stops... (0+ / 0-)

    Nobody knows. Bottom line, when you play with fire you are bound to get burned. Cheney wanted war; he was in a war zone. He is a combatant. Death happens. He signed on the dotted line, like my brother in Afghanistan. He did more than sign on the dotted line, obviously. He wrote the paper that the dotted line appeared on, and he has been a part of this 'pulp/publishing industry' for many, many years.

    With Karma hanging over my head, I try not to wish anyone anything but decent thoughts--though this principle is typically better in theory than practice.

    Children didn't sign on any dotted line, and I lose more sleep when they die.

    I literally lose sleep when a child dies, no matter where he or she lives...and then dies an untimely death.

  •  I don'twant Deadeye Dick assassinated (0+ / 0-)

    I want him tried in a court of law.

  •  tragedy of death (0+ / 0-)

    I believe any death is a tragedy. I dont have to like the man but he is a human being.So i hope he lives for a long time.

  •  you know i would agree if (0+ / 0-)

    that fat bastard did not cause so much death and destruction - sometimes its probably better for the world if someone gets killed ie hitler

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