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As I sit back and wonder, sometimes out loud about why the protest that have been staged since the beginning of the Iraq Invasion, Occupation don’t carry the same weight of the protest of the Vietnam era? read On.>>>

We know it’s not for lack of effort. There have been protests that have rivaled the size of any protest during the Vietnam conflict. The lack of the Media Coverage is not helping, but that is not the main problem.

Could it be that the protest songs aren’t as meaningful as those of that era were? Although there aren’t as many they do let you know how they feel for the most part. The one big difference between then and now with the protest and the songs is these people do not have to worry about going to fight if they do not want to. At least for now.

Really, if these kids knew they were going to be drafted you would see more in the street, and the songs would be allover the air waves, and have more passion behind them. Do not get me wrong, these kids have conviction in what they are doing. Nevertheless, it is not the raw conviction that was seen in the days of Vietnam. That generation new that there was a great chance, they were going into L.B.J.’s meat grinder. And that was the motivation to speak loud and do something to make yourself heard.

Another great point that was brought up last night in a discussion in Yahoo PL6 was we need to make these marches as they are called today,(Why in the hell they are called that I don’t know, or do I.) need to take longer. The "event" is scheduled for the weekend, on a Saturday or Sunday, three or four hours and they are over. What is needed, is for the PROTEST to go on indefinitely.

Don’t schedule protest in the dictionary meaning of the word. Get a movement started, and run with it. Do not let the "Man" know what you are going to do. For Christ sake, they did not have computers in the day of Vietnam and they got hundreds of thousands. With today’s technology, you would think we could get millions.

I am not totally clueless to why people don’t get out there and protest. For one, we have lost our fight to do what is right. We do not have the balls anymore. The only Civil Disobedience I have seen during a protest was from Cindy Sheehan. I am saying Civil Disobedience not violence, there is a difference. Jamming up a street so that traffic cannot move, or not allowing people to enter the jobs because you and 100 of your closest friends are blocking the door. If you took 10 people to your congresspersons office and sat in front of his door, you would get your message to them, and might make the news. And God think of it, if we did that to every Senator, and Congressperson, well I will tell you that is a message that will be herd.

So to recap. We need to practice more Civil Disobedience. We need more Sit-Ins. Moreover, we need protest that go on for days, not on a convenient day for a couple of hours. Then we will see if they take notice. This is our government and not theirs. And we want it back now! Alternatively, you can set back and take what they give you and fade away as your children become cannon fodder.


Originally posted to ABA on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 07:18 PM PST.


Or is it that this Administration just does not give a F- -k

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip/jar (7+ / 0-)

    I don't hate my country, just what they have done to it.

    by ABA on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 07:17:00 PM PST

  •  Nope today's protest don't work (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    because BushcCo doesn't care about our opinions and they have held all the cares the last 6 years.

    The other president's still had some decency. Bush does not. Remember Bush thinks he is on a divine mission and the protestors are just Satan's minions sent to distract him.

  •  Actually they do work. (7+ / 0-)

    The protests in February of 2003 effectively kept the French, the Canadians and the Germans out of the war in Iraq. They broke the "united we stand" propaganda that followed 9/11. The argubably even created the "liberal blogosphere" and the Dean campaign since the Democratic Party saw things spiralling out of their control and needed a method of coopting the anti-war sentiment.

    They have not yet forced Bush to withdraw from Iraq. But the protests around the Vietnam war didn't succede in forcing Johnson or Nixon out of Vietnam.

    In other words, protests are part of the equation, not the whole thing.

  •  Social aspect of protests (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lefty Mama

    I remember being in Seattle before we invaded Iraq, and going to a large protest event. I was younger then, but I was struck by the disjointed aspect of it. If I remember correctly, the event was titled, "Stop the war in Iraq!" and then, underneath it,
    "Stop the war on immigration."
    Talking to people in the crowd, especially the younger protesters, was a mixed plate. I got the general sense that many of them were there because, for them, protesting had turned into a almost. They loved the sense of righteous indignation; they loved the people; they loved the feeling they got from going out there, getting involved, and boldly protesting whatever. But none of them that I talked to wrote letters to the editor of the local paper. None of them planned to.

    Since then, I have been decidely less comfortable at protests. There are few things in this world worse than good people organized badly.

    Hats off to the city fathers, they're no longer a hundred feet tall.

    by Throwbot on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 08:05:37 PM PST

    •  60's Protests Were Often Multi Themed (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      The Spring 1970 riots at Ohio State, for example, was a demonstration actually organized by the Afro Am students over some black student and discipline issues. The anti-war faction and women's lib groups threw in late in the game to make the numbers more effective.

      Nixon's Cambodia surprise was announced 2 days after OSU was a riot zone, and then campuses nationwide erupted.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 08:10:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

        The line about how "protests are fragmented", people need to ask themselves where they're getting it from?

        I went to the huge protest back in September of 2005 and as fragmented and downright silly as it could seem at times, everybody knew what those 500,000 people were there for.

        I don't think people would come up with this angle themselves. I don't want to sound conspiratorial but I do think it's a very deliberate line of attack by a certain kind of Democratic Party triangulator who wants a way to attack the anti-war movement without seeming as if he/she is for the war.

    •  This is a good thing. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, doinaheckuvanutjob

      I got the general sense that many of them were there because, for them, protesting had turned into a almost. They loved the sense of righteous indignation; they loved the people; they loved the feeling

      Part of the reason "we" are in Iraq is the social isolation of most Americans.

      You go to a protest, you meet other people. You join a group. You look people in the eye.

      You stay at home on the Internet, you bend over your computer while an CRT shoots electrons into your face. Your shoulders get tense. Your senses are deprived. Don't think the government doesn't want this. They use sensory deprivation all the time as a method of control.

      This isn't to say that protests are enough in and of itself but the social/bonding part of them isn't something you want to do away with.

    •  the one thing that is hurting us lib (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      to many issues, this administration has done so much wrong hard to focus on one.

      I don't hate my country, just what they have done to it.

      by ABA on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 08:18:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well No (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I think the Democrats are making that mistake. They're not focused (although you'll never hear this on

        They want to end the war. They also want to raise the minimum wage, save social security, and provide decent healthcare.

        But they never come out and admit that if "we" keep spending money in Iraq, the only option a Democrat in the White House in 2008 will have is a massive tax increase just to stay even.

        So yes, groups like Answer can get silly and diffuse. But they're hardly the only group.

  •  Because We've Only Begun--Vietnam War (6+ / 0-)

    teach-ins and protests began around 65 or so.

    It was at least 5 years before the Cambodia escalation and the May 1970 riots and shootings. And protests went on at least another year or few after that.

    Plus thanks to the draft and also to ongoing civil rights protesting, there was a lot more protest activity nationwide at that time.

    I keep saying this, I don't know a way to put it, but America was a much, much bigger country back then. There were so many more voices, so much more going on.

    It really has the feel of a half-empty village these days.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 08:07:05 PM PST

  •  We Can Make It Happen (3+ / 0-)

    Don't throw in the towel.  And by all means, keep writiing of phoning your reps.  We do a protest every weekend. And I do know it helped turn the district Dem.  This was written to me this week from a old school friend now a chaplain.  We need to reach the masses.

    Whenever we enter a time of increased socio/political
    tension the music that comes to my mind is from the
    Viet Nam era. The tunes of Crosby, Stills, Nash and
    Young, Bob Dylan, and a few others continue to be
    relevant in a nation that is under the thumb of it's
    own military industrial monster which is "destroying
    hundreds of thousands of lives".
    Recently I heard a hit from 1972 that I think has
    been overlooked as an anti-war/social change song.
    Written by Robert Lamm of the group "Chicago",

    "Dialogue Part One" and "Part Two" features the voices
    of Terry Kath and Peter Cetera in dialogue "'bout the
    way that things are (were) going".
    Kath sings the part of a young man who is becoming
    aware of the disturbing nature of world events. The
    Cetera character is clueless and wants to stay that
    Here are the lyrics from Part One:

                  "Dialogue Part One"

    (Kath) Are you optimistic 'bout the way that things
    are going?

    (Cetera) No, I never ever think of it at all.

    (K) Don't you ever worry when you see what's going

    (C) No, I try to mind my business, that is, no
    business at all.

    (K) When it's time to function as a feeling human
    being, will your Bachelor of Arts help you get by?

    (C) I hope to study further, a few more years or so. I
    also hope to keep a steady high.

    (K) Will you try to change things, use the power that
    you have, the power of a million new ideas?

    (C) What is this power you speak of and the need for
    things to change? I always thought that everything was

    (K) Don't you feel repression just closing in around?

    (C) No, the campus here is very, very free.

    (K) Does it make you angry that the war is dragging

    (C) Well, I hope the President knows what he's into, I
    don't know.

    (K) Don't you see starvation in the city where you
    live, all the needless hunger, all the needless pain?

    (C) I haven't been there lately, the country is so
    fine, but my neighbors don't seem hungry 'cause they
    haven't got the time.

    (K) Thank you for the talk, you know you really eased
    my mind. I was troubled by the shape of things to

    (C) Well, if you had my outlook your feelings would be
    numb, you'd always think that everything was fine.

    So why am I highlighting this song? Many of us worry
    when we see what's going down these days, but we don't
    all come to the same conclusions on how to deal with
    it. This is not a vain attempt to convert supporters
    of the war in Iraq. What I'm hoping to do is to point
    out the importance of trying to wake up the slumbering
    masses, those who choose, like the Cetera character,
    to just mind their own business while the war keeps
    "dragging on".
     Occasionally I meet with other anti-war activists at
    a busy, suburban intersection. We hold up signs saying
    things like, "End the War", and "Honk for Peace". It's
    heart-warming to hear how many honk and give the
    thumbs-up.(A growing majority.) And the fight/flight
    adrenaline pumps when we get the rare thumbs-down,
    finger-up, or foul-mouthed tirade. (One guy pulled up
    and hollered, " just go away", as he flicked his
    flaming cigarette at me!)
    After twenty-some years of activism I've learned that
    it usually takes powerful, or a lot of little,
    unplanned experiences to change the minds and hearts
    of those who have their minds made up. Arguments don't
    work. They've never worked on me. So, my focus has
    shifted to folks like those who pull up to our
    intersection with white-knuckled grips on their
    steering wheels, and necks plank-stiff trying to avoid
    eye contact with us. They may not be asleep at the
    wheel, but they are trying to stay asleep in the soul.
    Why? Because that's where we are connected with the
    suffering of friend and foe alike. And the suffering
    in Iraq is overwhelming.
    My hope, and it may be a slim hope, as I hold my sign
    on the street corner, is that this strange sight in
    the 'burbs might wake up at least one suburban
    snoozer. Like it or not, we are here to agitate. We
    are the barking dogs at your bedside in the morning.
    We won't stop or go away until you WAKE UP and address
    this war, not just by having an opinion but by
    participating in OUR democracy. Believe me, I
    understand how unsettling that can be. As Molly Ivans
    once said, "The thing about democracy, beloveds, is
    that it is not neat, orderly or quiet. It requires a
    certain relish for confusion."
    WAKE UP! Martin Luther King spoke about the harm done
    by good people who do nothing. WAKE UP! Visitors to
    the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. are confronted
    with this challenge at it's entrance: "Thou shalt not
    be a victim. Thou shalt not be a perpetrator. Above
    all, thou shalt not be a bystander."
    Like the Cetera character, most of us try to numb our
    feelings and "keep a steady high" in some way. Whether
    it's with chemicals, work, shopping, religiosity, or
    entertainment, like sports and celebrity watching.
    (Yes, I believe there are people who vote for
    All-Stars and the "American Idol", but not for
    American politicians!)WAKE UP!

    "Will you try to change things, use the power that you
    have, the power of a million new ideas?"

    Ordinary voters changed the faces of the Senate and
    the Congress this past November, and many of us
    recognize that we have to continue to use our power to
    make sure that policies change too. Millions of people
    are waking up to an idea that may be new to them...
    that we can live in a world without war. And millions
    of people are having new ideas all the time for things
    we can do FOR each other instead of AGAINST each
    other. What a waste to be sleeping through all of
    this! What a waste to be an armchair American just
    grumbling at those "damn liberals" or those "*#@%
    conservatives"! WAKE UP!

    "'But now', says the Once-Ler, 'now that you're here,
    the word of the Lorax seems perfectly clear. Unless
    someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is
    going to get better. It's not.'"
     -Dr. Seuss

    "Part Two" of the "Dialogue" is an upbeat mantra...a
    group affirmation. Each line starts with the word
    "we", not "I". When you start waking up to the
    suffering we are causing because of this war you will
    feel angry. But that is only a start. When you
    actually decide to get out of bed and do something
    you'll begin to realize the wisdom of the saying,
    "Don't get angry, get organized".  Join or start a
    group that promotes the action you want to see happen,
    because the words of one angry, isolated individual
    are like spit in a hurricane when it comes to these
    global issues. But, if the history of America, indeed,
    the history of humanity proves anything, it's that,
    "We can make it happen".

    Find the song and sing along!

    "Dialogue, Part II"

    "We can make it happen.
    We can change the world now.
    We can save the children.
    We can make it better.
    We can make it happen."

    Robert Lamm   1972

    WE CAN!

    •  It's good to see a member of the Silly Party (0+ / 0-)


      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 08:33:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I Once Thought (0+ / 0-)

        I once thought of joining the very silly party, but they just can't win.

        But thanks for giving me the chance to add one thing.

        We changed, well maybe not change, but addressed our issues, Barak Obama.

        On contesting the election, and on Alito.  So talking to your reps does work.  

        Today, if I believe the bloggers, and mostly I do.  Obama today came out saying he suppports Isreal.

        Well, everyone does.  But what I want him to do and will ask him is, why can't we focus on what the Palastinians want as well.

        You can't just yell terrorist and ignore them.  I live in an area that has a middle eastearn flavor.

        And I have worked for Palastinians and we get along wonderfully.   I got to see their literature and things they belive in.  And not knowing fully the history, I think they had some valid complaints.

        I know the only hope to ending this mess is the netroots.  But I also know, we are not the majority yet.

        But it will happen.

  •  They DO work. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lefty Mama, blueoasis, Autarkh

    It likely would have taken me MUCH longer to summon the courage to first question and then actively fight against the current administration, even though they were feelings that I'd felt for so long. The energy felt in the few mass protests I've been involved with here in NYC since 2003 really helped me feel like I was not alone, and really made me feel like we CAN make change....even if the whole protest thing wound up being something of a "placebo".

    And the more people that see more of us every-day folks out on the streets, the more they too will begin to think "hey, maybe their view ISN'T quite so radical....", and that's the first step. It's what helped get me where I am, and I'm confident it continues to help many more.

  •  the Administration and the public (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    doesn't give a fuck!!!

  •  What really happened in yesteryear and today? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lefty Mama

    "Why Today’s Protest Don’t Work, Like Those of Yester Year" with the comma in, ironically implies they didn't work in yesteryear; without the comma would mean they did work in yesteryear.

    What really happened in yesteryear? It really wasn't until many from the protest movements got involved with running for office or in campaigns that change began on the legislative and Congressional level. And it did. That's how we got the EPA, many environmental, women's issues, civil rights, and other reforms we now take for granted. That's how Nixon was pressured politically (along with protests) to end the war.

    What's the crucial difference between now and then? I'd say the media. Back then, the media was stodgy, old school, conservative but not beholden to the Republicans or conservative politicians but rather conservative in its approach towards coverage. Think of a 100,000 David Broders. They had higher standards then of journalism, but at the same time, the anti war movement was considered fringe, illegitemate in political discourse by the media. Nonetheless, a protest would get far more coverage than it does today because it would be seen as a valid news event as well as a fascinating novelty and social phenomonen. Nowadays, there's so much control by Rethuglican corporate entities over news coverage that the big protests get little or no national news coverage.

    Music and culture are the same issue. Back then, rock bands could reflect the feelings/ideas of antiwar youth and vault to great popularity in record sales and concerts. Now, Clear Channell and a few others control most of the music. They discourage political messages as not commercially viable or hostile to their desires for their 'employees', the bands. And they don't allow much new artistry to emerge. It's all manufactured in the message for marketing to moronic demographics for prepackaged sales. Groups are encouraged to rap about killing their brothers and raping their sisters, but censored for denouncing government or corporate policies.

    So what's worked is the Net and Comedy-- 2 places where the octopus of Neocon tyrrany couldn't completely reach.

    Protest is still alive and a viable and important part of today's movements to reform and restore our Constitutional republic and our democratic rights.

  •  I may sound like a broken record... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ABA, blueoasis

    ...but I think the key lacking element is sustainment. Protests can't be weekend events.

  •  current protest music (0+ / 0-)

    I just LOVE Emma's Revolution!!!

    Here I go
    Bound for freedom
    Let the truth take the lead
    Not the preacher
    Not the congress
    Not the millionaire, but me
    I will organize for justice
    I will raise my voice in song
    And our children will be free
    To lead the world and carry on
    ~Pat Humphries

    Every single song is just wonderful. But nobody knows who they are. It is strange that such talent would not get major labels competing for their contract.

    In a democracy, everyone is a politician. ~ Ehren Watada

    by Lefty Mama on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 10:43:32 PM PST

  •  Why Bother? (0+ / 0-)

    During the Viet Nam war, there was an impression based on LBJ's composure, that protests would be heard.  Based on GWB's composure, we know absolutely that protests will not be heard and will be ignored.

    LBJ chose not to run for President based on the war; if GWB could run again, we could have every confidence we would still be in Iraq, Afghanistan, and probably Iran.

    So, with an arrogant, ignorant little prick like George Bush, it becomes a "Why Bother?"

    "Man's life's a vapor Full of woe. He cuts a caper, Down he goes. Down de down de down he goes.

    by JFinNe on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 04:05:47 AM PST

    •  Because (0+ / 0-)

      We are headed to a point in time where something has to give. We now are hearing that some in Iraq feel that the U.S. has around 6 months and they will have no choice but to pull a full-blown retreat. Not because of the will of the people but because of the collapse of the military there. However, knowing this administration as we do it will only send more troops into the shooting gallery.

      People keep asking where will they get these troops from, stating the current condition of the military.  I get a sick feeling in my stomach that they are setting in their senior English class right about now. They are yours and mine, they are our children. The other argument is that they cannot train them fast enough. I feel that this is correct, but we have about a million or so here in the states that can be shipped over, and the new recruits can man the home front in case of emergencies.(like floods, hurricanes, and civil uprising.

      So in answer to your question, that is why we need to bother.


      I don't hate my country, just what they have done to it.

      by ABA on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 04:46:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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