Skip to main content

The following shocking testimony is a sample of what an uprooted Palestinian face if s/he wish to return home, Palestine.

Nadia Hasan is a Palestinian woman with a Chilean passport. She is a human rights activist and translator. She visited Palestine once before, but since then, her only "sin" is wishing to set foot in the land that gave birth to her family, the land that is part of her. For this sin, for the racist prejudice against Palestinians, for the fear that Israelis have of facing the fact that the land they came to live on is the land that others yearn for and have been attached to for countless generations, she is paying the price.

This is her story:

30th March 2006: Nadia's experience while crossing the borders from Jordan to Palestine (borders occupied by Israel). She wrote me the following email:

Ahlen , first of all, sorry for my English, but i will explain for you what happened today.
Yesterday i came to Aqaba, and today i went to the border at 8 am.
I was nervous, but at the same time i felt good, making something that i was waiting for long time.

I crossed the Jordanian border without problems, only 15 minutes and i take my bag again and i start walking to the Palestinian side. Two armed guys were waiting there and asked me for my passport. They look each other and asked me "from where are you?, well, one of them had my passport in his hand, a Chilean passport, why they asked me!!, after i went to the check room, and two another guys were there and asked me the normal questions, well, normal for them! All the questions were about my family name, why my name is Nadia Hasan, if i am Muslim... i answered not, i am christian, but why you has a Muslim name, why you don't change it, well, 20 minutes of that and they let me pass, even they told me "Welcome to Israel, enjoy your time here"..

I went to the passport control and i big group of tourist were there, every one got their visa in less that 5 minutes. When was my turn, i saw a familiar face, the woman in the control office was the same that last year, the same that after gave me one month visa told me "if you don't like it come back to Chile, we don't want more Palestinians here!!!!".

Everything was normal, she asked me for my passport, and checked my name at the computer...., she was look at it for more that 2 minutes, at that moment i knew that my name was there, but which information they have, i don't know..., she called a guy, after another woman, after another guy..., all of them were talking in Hebrew, look at me sometimes, reading again, i don't know for how long, i was so nervous..

A new guy came to me and start to speak in Arabic with me, i told him that i don't understand, he continues speaking in Arabic...., after that he told me "Good luck" and asked me to go to the check room again. well, he didn't asked me, he order me, he told me "Move now"

I entered in the check room and i had all the Israeli security with me, more than 15 persons, all of them not more than 22, playing an important game in their life, with power in their hands and with a terrorist in front of them, i saw exciting eyes, waiting for the orders of the oldest man, the guy with the biggest m 16 in his hand.

They open all my bags, they put everything in a table and start to check it, everything...
After a young woman told me that she need to check my body, and with a smile in my face i answered, "OK, no problem", when she was checking me she told me whispering "i am sorry, but is my work, can you take of all your clothes?", i answer yes, but i want to keep my t shirt (i didn't want to show my tattoo), well, she checked me all, open your legs, close your legs, sit here, up and open your legs again, etc... like last year.

After the woman from the last year came and asked me if i was in Israel before, i answer yes, why you are coming again, i have friends here, Arabic friends she asked?, not, Israeli friends, Israelis????? (her fave change it), yes, Israeli friends, she asked me their names and i gave to her.

After asked me for my other passport, passport that i don't have of course, asked me about Gaza, about Nablus, about other Arab countries, about my name again...

Well, she left me alone, i check the time, was 10:30 am, i was thinking that my future in Palestine will depends of what she decided, and i wanted to smoke, of course i was not allowed to do it, sit there and wait!!!!

The time running, i was nervous but quite at the same time, i wait for this moment since i was refused from my homeland last year, 6 long months, and i was there again, ready for that.
I checked the time again, was 12:15, i asked if i can use the bathroom, they told me no, sit and wait!!! After 10 minutes the women came to me, i wanted cry, i knew that she has my dreams in her hands and she gave me back my passport, i take my bags (after put everything inside) and i start top walk.

I walk, with tears in my eyes, full of emotions inside me, all my memories from Palestine were in my head, in my heart, i remember in this 5 or 10 minutes every person that i met in Nablus, how much i wanted come back, how near i was.

One man stopped me and told me something that i didn't want to hear, something that was only in my nightmares, something that i listened before: "Welcome to Jordan"
I am in Aqaba again, with Palestine in front of me but more far than ever.

I checked again in the Jordanian border, i took again my bags and i start to walk. I felt my bags lighters, not so heavy than before, the tears were still in my eyes, but my legs were stronger, i am stronger, they make me feel in that way, they don't understand that every time that they refused a Palestinian at the border they recognize that the Palestinians are there, they must to use the guns to keep something that don't belong to them, they are afraid to see us trough our eyes, that we are here, near, and always will be near, they know that Palestine Exist!

I took a room in front of the sea, i will buy a bottle of wine, and this night i will drink, i will drink for Palestine, i am proud to be Palestinian.

All of you will be with me tonight.

Nadia Hasan.

Next day, Nadia gathers her strength and plan a new start. She wrote me an email and said:

Today is my first day in Amman, well, today its the first of many days that I will have to live in this city. I am a little paralyzed, i dont know from where I should begin, i dont know to where I should go neither what I have to do.

I am clear, in the relative clarity that we can have about an uncertain future that I will stay here the time that is necessary, I will build myself a new life until being able to recover my life, the life that I want, the one that they forced me to leave. Today I add myself to the millions of Palestinian who lives outside of Palestine, who have been displaced, who have been expelled of their homes, to those who have been denied the basic right of belonging, of being linked with a physical space, denied to founding roots and to see them to grow and to settle. The life is about that, right?, of looking for a place where you feel that you belong?, where your feet recognize the streets, and do the streets recognize your footfalls? We can be born in a certain country, to live half life in it, but your dreams and looks point to another place, to a distant space where your face feels part, where it is recognized, where it melts with the other ones, where you belong.

Jordan is the country of those displaced, of the refugees, of the Palestinian outside of Palestine. Where fictitious borders prohibit them the step, where apartheid limits castrate their return dreams, dreams of belong.

It paralyzes me the fear, the fear to melt in this mass of indifference. It paralyzes me the single possibility to assume a reality that I don't like, that disgusts me, a reality that I refuse to accept. The Palestinian outside of Palestine don't live in a place, since no place is for they own. They live in the time, their life is determined by political, economic circumstances or of any nature, that show them the path that they must to follow. They build houses, they find works, they form families, with the intention of continuing, of continuing walking, but in each one of them the word waits have a deeper sense, a wait that they dream can transform the time in place, they hope to stop to live in the time and to live in Palestine, live in their place.

Today I will begin to look for a house, to look for a work, to build a new life, but i am clear that the feeling that levies me is that of the wait, waiting that my footfalls will recognize the land that they touch, waiting that my face will melts with familiar faces again. But in this wait the strugle is bigger, the challenge imposed by the Occupation is even bigger, because we should challenge the memory, we cannot forget, we cannot allow to conquer ourselves for the indifference, we cannot forget. To conserve the scents, flavors, colors of our place will always be the best fight that we can give, to challenge to the forgetfulness and to win to the weapons, to stop to be the children of an idea of Palestine to become the children of Palestine, because while there are memories Palestine Exists and Palestine Resists!

Nadia was not broken. She was denied her "right to return" to her home, Palestine, but that's not the end of the story. From that date until few days ago, Nadia worked all she can to go home, Palestine.

For her determination to achieve what believes she was born for, her last attempt to go home was few days ago, but unlike before, this time it went worse than expected and planed.

She said:

Dear friends,
Some of you didn't know I was planning to enter in Palestine again but I did. I got a letter from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs saying I was no longer refused entry into Israel. I was so happy. I packed my bag, I closed my house in Amman and I took a plane to Tel Aviv yesterday morning. Now I am writing you from Amman, I was deported again.

Everything is posted here. Sorry for my English, I hope you will be able to understand everything.
Salam
Nadia

The shocking details:

First of all, I want to thank all of you for your nice words to me and your continuous and infinite support.

What happened to me yesterday is something I couldn't imagine to be possible before, not because I didn't think I could be refused again, it always was a possibility, and even I knew about the "interrogation" I would be expected to pass, but not in the way they did it.

I landed in Tel Aviv at 7 AM, I gave my passport in the passport control and after less than 2 minutes, 3 guys came to me saying they had been waiting for my arrival. They took me to a big room with all my stuff. More than 20 people there started to check every single thing. First of all, they took my mobile and wrote down in front of me every single phone number and name I have in it, they check my sms, the latest calls I made and received, the pictures on my camera, everything.

After that, they checked me, my body, my clothes, my hair, my ears, even my nails.

One guy was introduced to me as Samy (I don't remember the last name). "I am Samy, from the Ministry of Defense, it's been a few days that I've been waiting for your arrival, I will work on you today, we will put everything on the table, it will be hard because I am not a nice person, I am strong, this is why they chose me for you, you are a special person Nadia, and you will get the best security system we have, if you collaborate with us we will help you."

Samy took me to a room very far from the main center of the airport. The office has the logo of Ministry of Defense, one woman was with us all the time (according to him it was so that it wouldn't make me feel bad. He told me, "I know Arabs girls, they don't want to be alone with a man, we respect you, don't worry"). First of all, he took several pictures of me and opened a file in his computer. Asking me about my family, phone numbers, professions, number of children, addresses, everything. He made copies of my credit card saying he must check the previous movement activities on it, made copies of my ID, driver's license, the pictures of my family I have with me, writing down who is who, etc.

After all this, he started, "I am here not to check what you did in Nablus, if you worked or not, if you stayed more than the permitted time, if you engaged in illegal activities, etc. There are people working on it, my job is check about TERRORIST ACTIVITIES YOU CAN BE INVOLVED WITH. For that we need to check on the people you are related to because WE KNOW that you know 5 people, terrorist ones, the worst people here are close friends of yours. If you give us their names (despite the fact that we already have them) you will enter, if you collaborate with us, we will help you Nadia."

And the show started.

He started with people in my mobile, one by one, the 163 numbers I have. "Who is he/she, how did you meet this person, are you in touch with him until now?" etc. Every single person in my mobile (the Palestinian numbers and Jordanian numbers) were checked on his computer and immediately a picture of this person was shown. I saw Sam' s picture, Anita's picture, Yusra's picture, Sumaida's picture, etc. The problem was not with them. At one point he started asking me about people in Balata and Askar Camp, people it is supposed that I know and he was waiting for me to mention them. He told me that he's been checking on me for a few months. "Many people you know in Nablus were interrogated, and almost all of them coincide in 5 names, saying you are a very close friend of theirs. Many people in Nablus know you Nadia, and we contacted all of them. Now you must start speaking."

I didn't know who they were looking for, as you can imagine. He continued with my mobile list and he found two of these 5 names he was looking for. 3 hours of the interrogation was about a friend of mine, actually a close friend of mine. He showed me his picture, and his brother's picture. In my mobile I have an sms from him wishing me good luck for my trip, and in my camera I had a picture with his brother because I visited him two days ago in a Camp here in Jordan. I explained to him that we are friends, I told him how and where and when we met and what kind of relationship we have. The guy didn't stop calling someone by phone asking for things and immediately new pictures of people were shown on his computer and he asked me about these people, most of whom I've never seen in my life, but some of them I had seen, and even their numbers were in my mobile.

He told me that these people are the worst people here, related with terrorist activities, and how is it possible that I don't know about that if it is clear we are good friends.

I told him that I can't be blamed for what someone else did or didn't do, that I don't know what he is taking about. I explain again to him how I met these guys and everything, but he continues saying I was not telling him all the truth because he already knows the truth and I will not enter again in Israel if I don't collaborate with him providing him with more details.

After he checked my mobile again and asked me how it can be possible that from the 163 numbers I had on it only 13 are from people in Jordan and all the rest are Palestinians. "How is it possible Nadia, that a woman like you, smart, good looking, attractive woman, doesn't have more relationships with people in Jordan? How is it possible Nadia, that you go everyday from your work to your house in Amman and you don't do anything else for more than a year, because we know that. What are you planning to do, why you insist so desperately to enter in Israel, why you are so related to these terrorists? Did they ask you to do something? Have they asked you for money? Have they asked if you are married? What are you planning to do with them as soon you enter here???? We know the truth, but we want to hear it from you, and again, if you don't collaborate with us we can not help you."

After a few minutes, another guy enters in the room, Amir, and he looks at me and tells me, "Stop lying, you are hiding something and we know it. You have bad friends and your relationship with them makes you related to their activities. I don't trust you and you will not enter because of that."

After he left and I was alone again with Samy I started crying, crying like a baby, and I told him that I want to stop with this interrogation and khalas. Send me back to Jordan because I don't know what they are looking for and I am not related to anything they were thinking. Samy sat next to me and kindly told me, "You are a nice person, a strong woman, I can see, well educated. Don't make mistakes, this is your opportunity to tell the truth. We will help you: give me the other 3 names we know you know, and don't cry anymore. Why are you so nervous? Why is this is so important to you? I don't understand and if I don't understand, I can only think about you what I already think about you... I WILL NOT LET YOU ENTER IF I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING BECAUSE I WILL BE RESPONSIBLE WHEN YOU BLOW YOURSELF UP IN TEL AVIV."

The interrogation continued, he made copies of all the pictures I have and started writing down next to each person their names and looking in his computer. He found another person in my pictures that according to him is a terrorist and he said, "Nadia, maybe you have clean hands, but if any person puts their hands in a dirty water, with time their hands will be dirty, and your hands are already black."

To make everything short, he told me, "You don't look good, your situation here is not good, you have strong connections with bad activities here, and because this world is not safe because of MUSLIMS (Nadia, remember how the world is now after September 11 because of Muslims) you are a big risk for the security of Israeli people and all the visitors of this country. Israel is a democracy, one of the best countries in the world, not like the Arab ones, and we work hard to prevent any terrorist activities here and you are not helping us with our mission."

He left me saying, "My team will decide now about what we will do with you but I don't think you will be able to enter here again, you are a risk for yourself and for others, and you can do whatever you want, like go to the COURT. If you do that, I will be happy to go there personally and make sure YOU WILL NEVER ENTER HERE AGAIN."

All this interrogation lasted from 7:20 am until 4:15 pm.

Downstairs the Chilean consul was waiting for me, I was allowed to speak with him and go out accompanied by security, to smoke a cigarette. I never saw Samy again, he didn't come back to tell me the results of the meeting, but since before I finished the interrogation, people from security told the consul I was not allowed to enter in Israel.

They asked me to go to the check room again, they checked all my bags and myself again and put me on a plane back to Amman at 7 pm.

I will finish writing this saying to all of you that I did my best yesterday. I don't think anybody is ready to face something like that, at least not me because I am not used to being treated as a terrorist. I feel sorry for all the people who are related to me; now they have all their names and phone numbers, they can check on them because of my fault. I feel like the worst collaborator in the world and I am making the life of others harder than it already is.

I don't know in which point everything turned so dirty. In my 8 months in Palestine I only did translations, met people, drank coffee with them, learning about the life in Palestine without judging anyone. I will never regret having such beautiful friends, specially this guy that for the Israelis is one of the most dangerous people in the West Bank, but I want be sure he and the rest will not have any problem because of me. I will keep apart, I don't want to collaborate to continue with the injustice they are facing since the same day they were born, only because they were born as Palestinians.

Salam to all
Nadia

Today, the day after this horrible and inhumane experience, Nadia's regained her perspective and her inner strength. This is her reply to a letter:

...I am not afraid anymore. I know they were playing with me yesterday, they want to defeat me but they will never do it, I am not the weaker in this evil game, they are.
For a few months, I had been working in getting the support of the Chilean Government and I did. The Chilean Government made a very strong complaint to the Israeli Government about my previous deportation. I got the support of more than 50 deputies in Chile that personally committed with me in support of my case. I spent one month in Chile having meetings, the Chancellor included, and after all this, the Israeli Foreign Ministry provided me with a letter saying I was no longer refused entry into Israel.
Now I know the truth.
They wanted to orchestrate all of this show to humiliate me and torture me on one side and also to claim that I was linked to terrorists and that's why I was always denied entry and that's why I am denied entry now so they could fight me back on the political and diplomatic level. They want to use this ploy to repair some of the damage I caused to their foreign policy, at least with Chile. They sent me that communication to make me think that my efforts are bringing some results. At the same time, they prepared a special team to give "special" treatment. It is obvious that those doing it were instructed by the highest political authority. It's a crime. To make it look justified, they invent stories against people. I do not even know what these people are accused with anyway. If you know them or you do not is not that important even. Those people might be accused of anything, but who says that they are guilty? Which court proves those people's guilt of anything? An Israeli Army Military Court? Hell! Over 700 thousand Palestinians were arrested and detained by Israelis. How many were proved guilty of any offense, even if accusations are based on Israeli military orders that are way worse than South Africa's Apartheid system? It is them we have to bring to court. They are guilty!

Imagine, "black handed", "linked to terrorist", "come to blow herself up in Tel Aviv", yet, they let her go back!!! Simply, this is nothing but a racist prejudice against any Palestinian.

They are all terrorists, and they should be kicked out of Palestine...

Justice will come, one day, Nadia. It may take time, but the day will come...

PS. Nadia's blog in Spanish.

Cross posted at Sabbah's Blog

Originally posted to Sabbah on Fri May 04, 2007 at 01:00 PM PDT.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tipjar (22+ / 0-)

    Shukran (Thanks) for reading.

    Sabbah's Blog: An Uprooted Palestinian Blogger Searching For a Better Way Forward in the Middle East.

    by Sabbah on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:52:46 PM PDT

  •  thanks for this post. (13+ / 0-)

    I just wanted your first reply to be thanks before you get hit with the "you're violating the rules" stuff.

    END THE MEDIACROCY! BOYCOTT FOX!

    by bluedogtxn on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:53:23 PM PDT

  •  Life in hell (12+ / 0-)

    I've heard any number of stories just like this.  Thank you for sharing, and I second those sentiments above wishing for a productive post and not an outright flamewar.

    We're all just monkeys burning in hell. SmokeyMonkey.org

    by smokeymonkey on Fri May 04, 2007 at 01:08:03 PM PDT

    •  This is a wingnut's dream. (5+ / 0-)

      This is what happens when you trade liberty for temporary security.

      Sociopathy is not an innate talent. It is a honed skill.

      by horatius on Fri May 04, 2007 at 01:48:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wingnuts wetdream you mean (0+ / 0-)

        I wonder when the TSA checks will degrade into the extreme security measures taken by the Israelis. My 91 year old grandfather flew out from the States a couple weeks ago. Three TSA employees did a security check on him for about 10 minutes. He kept setting off the metal detector. There was no change, pens, or keys in his pockets, it was the clasps of his suspenders that kept setting off the machine. He pointed and told them it was probably his suspenders, but they ignored him. They went ahead and spent 10 minutes doing a pat down, wand check, x-ray his shoes, walk through the detector again, another pat down, wand and finally they let him go. Meanwhile, about 20-30 people had gone through the detectors without much delay.

        Think about it. Would a 91 year old man really try to hijack a plane or try to blow it up midair?  

        Lies, Torture and the American Way! (My Apologies to Superman)

        by Darksyde888 on Fri May 04, 2007 at 02:35:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you (6+ / 0-)

    for posting this and for Nadia's tenacity.  Watch
    The Easiest Targets, thirteen minute video of testimonies from Palestinian women about humiliating experiences getting in and out of Israel.

  •  Another incident, another victim (12+ / 0-)

    Thank you Sabbah for posting this story about Nadia and her horrible experience that NO one would wish to expereince themselves.  I second the above sentiments that I hope this post stays on topic and remains civil. Shooting the messenger does not alleviate the facts of the message. I cannot immagine having to go through what Nadia was confronted with.  Intimidation, utter fear, not having any clue as to how long it would go on, everything on her person down to her fingernails examined.  I truly hope that Nadia recovers from this experience.  Bless her and thank you again for sharing her story here, a story that so MANY others share with even worse consequences than hers.

  •  Balance (6+ / 0-)

    Thank you for posting this.
    I try to balance Nadia's horrible ordeal with the Israelis' genuine concern about their security. I'm unable to do so.

    Americans are doing one thing in Iraq . . . Dying.

    by Lords on Fri May 04, 2007 at 01:30:52 PM PDT

  •  Question (0+ / 0-)

    How do Palestinians keep Palestinians down? I've heard dreadful stories from immigrants in America.

    Ditto question about Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc...
    I deplore the mistreatment of anybody!

    Questions....
    How do Palestinians keep Israelis down?
    How do other countries keep Jews and Christians down?
    And what the hell are we doing in Iraq?!

    I have no idea if a Jewish state of Israel is viable.....I'm still hung up on what geographers were saying in the 1940s.....that the geography/demographics  of Palestine were not conducive to absorbing major influx from Europe. One pro-Jewish geographer, Freya Stark, an expert on the Middle East, suggested that the only country in the area that was suitable was the then multi-cultural Iraq where there already was a large percentage of Jews and Christians...esp. Baghdad.

  •  Suggestion (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bittergirl, james risser

    I don't imagine how any individual can navigate a maze like Nadia's but there is safety in numbers especially with the support of the well-known who have good references and reputations.

    Maybe through church groups? Other groups of people whose sponsors can get the process smoothed out.

    Full disclosure: My own family was warned not to try to go near our original homeland in Eastern Europe due to dangerous hostility and government unaccountability for making certain visitors disappear.

  •  Israeli law is pretty clear on the issue (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Darksyde888, dvo, jhecht, zemblan

    It requires people of Palestinian extraction to leave and depart Israel on a Palestinian passport, not a Chilean, American or any other passport.  (Same by the way holds true of those of Israeli descent.  They must enter and depart Israel on an Israeli passport).

    Second, search of a person and luggage is a common and wholly legal procedure at the border.  When I traveled to Israel, my bags were fully searched before I boarded an El-Al flight.

    Third, Israel, like any other country has an absolute authority to deny entry to anyone it sees fit for whatever reason (or no reason).  

    •  I also wonder how she knew how old the security (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dvo, Drgrishka1, zemblan

      guards were. I don't recall Israeli Security displaying there dates of birth for the public. Now that we know that the Palestinian propagandists are organized on DKos, it kind of makes you question everything they diary and post.

      If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve.

      by jhecht on Fri May 04, 2007 at 02:55:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "The Palestinian propagandists (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        litho, james risser

        are organized on DKos"?!

        Since when, exactly?

        •  yes! lock up the children... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          litho, weasel, lemming22

          ...and hide the silverware; or is it hide the children and lock up the silverware!  i can never get that right...

        •  fortunately, we have... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          litho, bittergirl, weasel, lemming22

          ...people here to point out the treachery in the diary...  when the email says

          all of them not more than 22

          sharp-eyed folks can obviously see that the entire diary is a farce and a 'palestinian propagandistic plant' by those on dailykos who are attempting to 'take over the site', but who make the mistake of reading id tags that aren't there!  i mean how else could a young woman be able to say a group of boys is 'not more that 22' unless she was lying!

          get with the program, lemming22...  :)

        •  This diarist... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zemblan

          ...and many others, have been recruited by shergald, a former kossack who was banned and who has been re-banned on multiple occasions when he registers with sockpuppet i.d.'s (he's probably reading this now, hi shergald!).

          Basically, shergald goes around asking other bloggers and the like who share his obsessive hatred with Israel to cross post any entry attacking Israel on dkos.  This diarist, and most of the other "regulars" who post this stuff, all come through this funnel.

          •  So ... (0+ / 0-)

            ... because the diarist is associated with shergald, this means that the pro-Palestinian Kossacks are organized?  And because of their "organization" that means they're all lying?

            I see a tinfoil hat in your very near future.

            •  I don't say anything... (1+ / 1-)
              Recommended by:
              zemblan
              Hidden by:
              weasel

              ...more than what is actually the case.

              this diarist is one of the people that shergald recruited to spam the site with I hate Israel diaries on a near daily basis.

              I'm not sure how you distinguish between "organized" and "associated."  All I know is that this diarist is one of many that a banned troll is recruiting to put garbage on the site.

    •  What about strip searches? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      litho, lemming22

      I agree on points 2 and 3, but not the first one. What if someone was born in the US but had Palestinian parents? Under US law, this person is an American citizen by birthright. Would this person have to travel with an Israeli or Palestinian passport?

      Lies, Torture and the American Way! (My Apologies to Superman)

      by Darksyde888 on Fri May 04, 2007 at 03:02:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In response to your questions (0+ / 0-)

        Strip seraches are wholly legal and not quite exceptional during border crossings.  It is within the governments' rights to search you completely.

        As for travel documents.  If a child is born to Israeli parents in  the US he acquires both US and Israeli citizenship by birth.  As such he has to carry both passports on his visit to Israel, because he has to arrive and depart the US on a US passport but arrive and depart Israel on an Israeli one.

        •  Were you made to strip? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          litho

          Are certain ones made to strip and others not?

          The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

          by callmecassandra on Fri May 04, 2007 at 03:36:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, some people are made to strip (0+ / 0-)

            and other are not.  Just like in all countries, including the U.S.  Again, it is the ABSOLUTE right of the government to search for as long as it feels appropriate anyone who crosses borders of a sovereign state.

            •  I'll clarify. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Diaries

              I didn't ask you whether or not it's legal. I wondering whether or not the process is discriminating. Mostly likely it is so I'm wondering on what basis. Obviously you weren't stripped. You probably never would be stripped - on that discriminating basis.

              The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

              by callmecassandra on Fri May 04, 2007 at 03:43:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Of course you have no basis (0+ / 0-)

                to suggest that the process is discriminatory, other than your visceral dislike of Israel.  But based even on this (one-sided) story, teh individual in question attempted to enetr Israel on a wrong passport.  She was turned away, and then attempted to enter Israel again, via a different port of entry.  Despite the fact that Israeli law prohibits those who are subject to issuance of Palestinian passports to enter via Ben Gurion airport if they left via the Allenby Bridge or Rafah crossing.  

                Those facts alone would justify heightened scrutiny.

                •  Israel rejecting entry of foreigner (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  litho, anonymousredvest18, Diaries

                  is not my question, much as you would like it to be.

                  It's the strip searches I'm wondering about...

                  On what basis are they made. Who gets stripped and who doesn't? Arabs only? Jews too?

                  The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                  by callmecassandra on Fri May 04, 2007 at 03:51:57 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I just told you that in this case (0+ / 0-)

                    the three violations/irregularities described above would justify much closer scrutiny of the individual.

                    •  From what I understand of the email, (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      james risser, Diaries

                      she was told that she wouldn't be refused entry.

                      I got a letter from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs saying I was no longer refused entry into Israel.

                      And the reason she was stripped had nothing to do with ports of entries. Did you read the diary?

                      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                      by callmecassandra on Fri May 04, 2007 at 04:03:36 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I did read the diary (0+ / 0-)

                        She is ALLEGING that she was stripped because she is a Palestinian (sans any proof I might add).

                        As to the letter, did the letter indicate that she can arrive via Ben Gurion Airport?  Did it state that she is exempted from carrying a Palestinian passport?

                        •  Actually, (0+ / 0-)

                          she was stripped after accusations were made that she had terrorist friends. Accusations that were obviously false since she was freed. It's good that she was a foreigner, I guess.

                          Do you think it's ever possible that some will abuse their power? You know, like the cops we have here who abuse their power. Do you think Israelis are immune to such human failings and flaws?

                          The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                          by callmecassandra on Fri May 04, 2007 at 05:43:22 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Reasoning with this one is futile nt (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            callmecassandra, Diaries

                            Find a local farmers market near you. http://www.localharvest.org/

                            by bittergirl on Fri May 04, 2007 at 05:44:55 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I know. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            bittergirl, Diaries

                            I just like having fun with him. He seems to enjoy it...and I'm bored.

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Fri May 04, 2007 at 05:46:08 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Again, she ALLEGES that (0+ / 0-)

                            they abused their power.  She ALLEGES that she was picked on because she is of Palestinian descent.  I have no basis to believe these allegations.

                          •  And there's reason to believe your allegations (0+ / 0-)

                            as to the reason she was stripped searched?

                            Where do you get this? Did I miss it?

                            Where in this diary did she state that she gave the wrong passport or went to the wrong port entry? What about the letter she received? Are you suggesting that she misunderstood the letter? That it gave specific instructions that she failed heed? If so, how do you know?

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Fri May 04, 2007 at 07:37:49 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I am not alleging anything (0+ / 0-)

                            I am suggesting that there are perfectly plausible alternate explanations for the reasons for the search.

                            Where does it say she gave the wrong passport?  It says she gave them a Chilean one.  However, Israeli law requires her (if she was born in the territories) to enter Israel on a Palestinian passport.  In fact the diary states that she was asked about that passport and did not have it.

                            As to the letter.  Again, according to the diary the letter simply stated that she is no longer under a travel ban to Israel.  Nowhere does she allege that the letter in any way suggested that she is exempt from other requirements of Israeli law such as proper documentation and departure and arrival through the proper border crossings.

                          •  This is not stated as a plausible explanation. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Diaries

                            But based even on this (one-sided) story, teh individual in question attempted to enetr Israel on a wrong passport.  She was turned away, and then attempted to enter Israel again, via a different port of entry.  Despite the fact that Israeli law prohibits those who are subject to issuance of Palestinian passports to enter via Ben Gurion airport if they left via the Allenby Bridge or Rafah crossing.  

                            Those facts alone would justify heightened scrutiny.

                            It's stated as a fact.

                            As for the passport, she stated that she visited Israel before, didn't she? I assume she used a Chilean passport, but that doesn't matter really. She's foreign and that's enough according to you and Israel. So, if she wasn't turned away then, why was she turned away this time while a foreigner both times?

                            Nowhere does she allege that the letter in any way suggested that she is exempt from other requirements of Israeli law such as proper documentation and departure and arrival through the proper border crossings.

                            Do you really think that after having gone through this before, she woudldn't know to follow instructions?

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Fri May 04, 2007 at 08:21:07 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Those ARE facts as described by her (0+ / 0-)

                            Allow me to recap once again.

                            1.  According to her own story, she attempted to enter via the land border with Jordan on a Chilean passport.  That's her saying it not me.  Israeli law in the meantime requires her to have a Palestinian passport.  That makes it a FACT that she attempted to enter on a wrong passport.
                            1.  According to her own story, she attempted to enter Israel for the second time via the Ben Gurion Airport.  Israeli law in the meantime prohibits Palestinian citizens (or those required to travel on Palestinian documents) from entering via the Ben Gurion airport if their last point of departure was Allenby Bridge or Rafah crossing.  According to her own story, she previously entered and existed Israel via land.  That makes it a fact that her attempt to enter through the Ben Gurion Airport was illegal.
                            1.  According to her own story, she was turned away at the land border crossing and then a few days later attempted to re-enter Israel against in a different border crossing.  

                            So, I these are facts according to HER.  

                            And I don't know whether she knew or did not know to follow instructions.  She states that she does not speak Arabic.  Her English is not perfect.  I don't know if she speaks Hebrew (but would surmise she does not).  Israeli Foreign Ministry generally does not use Spanish in its official correspondance.  So it may very well be that she misunderstood.  I am not stating that she did.  What I am saying is that she failed to even ALLEGE that the letter from the Foreign Ministry waived all of the other entry requirements.

                            As an additional note, (although I do not know how exactly it works in Israel) permission to visit from the Foreign Ministry is simply a recommendation to the border authorities to let the person into the country.  The ultimate decision is made by the border authorities.  That is how it works in the US, Japan, Russia, and other countries.  If Israel operates on the same system, then the letter from the Israeli Foreign Ministry did not entitle her or guarantee her entry into Israel.

                          •  And again, (0+ / 0-)

                            YOU stated as fact the reasons she was rejected based on nothing more than your speculations.

                            YOU said this:

                            But based even on this (one-sided) story, teh individual in question attempted to enetr Israel on a wrong passport. She was turned away, and then attempted to enter Israel again, via a different port of entry.  Despite the fact that Israeli law prohibits those who are subject to issuance of Palestinian passports to enter via Ben Gurion airport if they left via the Allenby Bridge or Rafah crossing.  

                            Those facts alone would justify heightened scrutiny

                            First. There was nothing in that email that suggested she brought the wrong passport. Did she state brought the wrong passport? Did any of the authorities say she brought the wrong passport? If no to both, how do you conclude that she brought the wrong passport?

                            Second. Considering that she's traveled to Israel before, considering that she's aware of the long waits and security clearances, why wouldn't she be aware of Israel's peculiarities regarding entry? By this point, I'm sure she's an expert hoop-jumper.

                            As an additional note, (although I do not know how exactly it works in Israel) permission to visit from the Foreign Ministry is simply a recommendation to the border authorities to let the person into the country.  The ultimate decision is made by the border authorities.

                            It was not, according to Nadia, a recommendation.

                            I got a letter from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs saying I was no longer refused entry into Israel.

                            This doesn't sound like a recommendation. You added as if it were a fact that the letter was a recommendation when you've not read the letter. Would the letter have said, "we recommend entrance for this person"? How do you know whether the letter granted permission or gave a recommendation?

                            You continue to introduce details that you have no way of ascertaining from the email above. Therefore, your comments should be questions, rather than stated as facts and not stated as plausible explanations even since you don't have enough information to create these plausible explanations.

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Fri May 04, 2007 at 10:10:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You must have real trouble with English (0+ / 0-)

                            I recited facts as recounted by her.  Then I said that "Those facts alone WOULD justify heightened scrutiny."  "WOULD" not "DID."

                            In the email she said "one of them had my passport in his hand, a Chilean passport."  Well, Israeli law requires her to have a Palestinian passport.  So according to HER she had the wrong one.  And yes, in the email she said that she was told that she was not carrying the right passport.  "After asked me for my other passport, passport that i don't have of course..."

                            I most certainly did not add "as if it was a fact" that he letter was a recommendation.  Read carefully.  " If Israel operates on the same system, then the letter from the Israeli Foreign Ministry did not entitle her or guarantee her entry into Israel."  "IF," a conditional proposition.  In any event, that does not mean that the letter was not a recommendation.  The letter may have simply stated that she is off the "no enter" list, but that the decision on entry is still to be made by border guards.  (That is speculation, but the point is, she does not allege that the letter exepmpted her from any requirements for documentation and arrival/departure at proper border crossings).  She fails to even make that allegation.  (You can be sure that she is a hoop jumper (or even a rope jumper for all I care) but absent even an allegation that she followed proper procedures, your assuredness and $4 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks).

                          •  You have problems with reading comprehension. (0+ / 0-)

                            Even of your own writings.

                            But based even on this (one-sided) story, teh individual in question attempted to enetr Israel on a wrong passport. She was turned away, and then attempted to enter Israel again, via a different port of entry.  Despite the fact that Israeli law prohibits those who are subject to issuance of Palestinian passports to enter via Ben Gurion airport if they left via the Allenby Bridge or Rafah crossing.  

                            Those facts alone would justify heightened scrutiny

                            What are "those facts alone"? You wrote the preceding paragraph as if it were fact. "Those facts alone".

                            The passport. You have a difficult time with sarcasm don't you?  Anyway, was she asked for her "other" passport the second time around? Was that the reason she was stripped searched and accused of aiding terrorists? Oh that's right. Going to the wrong port of entry will result in strip searches in no other country but Israel. I would think that one would simply be turned away or given the proper location. And although we have a person who's surely more knowledgable about the procedures than you, she somehow didn't know about these tedious peculiarities that make up Israel's security policies. You are making less and less sense. It's called reaching, btw. I'm a stranger to the region. So are you. She isn't. I'm not knowledgeable about Israel's security procedures in this area and you definately aren't. But she would be.

                            As an additional note, (although I do not know how exactly it works in Israel) permission to visit from the Foreign Ministry is simply a recommendation to the border authorities to let the person into the country.

                            Although you don't know how exactly it works, you make a statement like this as if it were fact -"permission to visit from the Foreign Ministry is simply a recommendation to the border authorities to let the person into the country". If you don't know exactly, why would you speak as if you did?

                            Whatever way Israel operates, I'm sure you'll determine that the letter was merely a recommendation. And so you have with this last post. So your conditional is worthless since you would never bind yourself to it faithfully. And you haven't. You continue to introduce details with no basis.

                            She fails to even make that allegation.

                            So what you're saying is that she should have stated in the beginning or the middle or somewhere in the email that she followed procedures? If she'd just wrote one sentence indicating that she followed procedure then and only then would consider the possibility that she was harassed and that authorities abused their power. You know D, I'm having a difficult time believing that.

                            How do you deal with the idea that getting lost gets you the criminal treatment of humiliating, invasive strip searches and false accusations of aiding terrorists?

                            god, I must be bored.

                            'Nite.

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Fri May 04, 2007 at 11:27:49 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Once again, the FACTS that I have stated (0+ / 0-)

                            are ones recounted by HER.  She stated that she presented a Chilean passport.  She stated that she was turned away.  She stated that she attempted to enter at the Ben Gurion Airport.  Those are facts ACCORDING TO HER.  Those FACTS WOULD justify increased scrutiny.

                            Your assertion that she is more knowledgable than me about Israel's entry and exit procedure is not supported by anything.  You have no clue how many times I have been to Israel.  You have no clue how many Israeli friends I have who have served in Israeli Army and border guards.  Yet you make wild assumptions.  Second, her own email betrays the fact that she was clueless about the need for a Palestinian passport.

                            As to the letter.  I said I do not know if a permission from FM is binding in Israel.  I was quite upfront about that.  If you would have read the whole paragraph and not 1 sentence out of context you would have seen that I said that permission from FM is a recommendation in SOME countries (that I listed:  US, Japan, Russia).  Then I said IF that is Israeli procedure, THEN the letter did not guarantee her entry.

                            Finally, as to her allegations.  When someone makes a civil or criminal complaint, he must allege facts that if proven would support judgment in his favor.  Failing to allege even a single fact necessary to judgment results in the dismissal of the complaint.  So too here.  She fails to allege that she followed the procedures.  She fails to allege that the FM letter stated that she will be permitted to enter at the Ben Gurion Airport.  She fails to allege that the letter waived the need for the Palestinian passport.  Consequently, her complaintis defective.

                          •  Her complaints about what? (0+ / 0-)

                            Your assertion that she is more knowledgable than me about Israel's entry and exit procedure is not supported by anything

                            You keep saying you don't know exactly, for one. Although, you try to speak as if you do. Second, you wouldn't get as harassed as often as she would.

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 08:52:18 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  "As often?" (0+ / 0-)

                            Seems to me that according to her diary she travelled to Israel just ONCE before.  So I don't know why you presume a wealth of knowledge on her part.

                            Second, I said "I don't know" with respect to the MFA, not with respect to other issues.  But then again, she does not disclose what the letter said in full.  Plus she admits that she does not speak Arabic and that her English is not perfect.  Presumably she does not speak Hebrew (having been born in Chile and having been to Israel only once before).  So  she may very well have misunderstood the import of the letter.  

                            Finally, your assertion that I wouldn't get as "harrassed" is also unsupported by anything.  If I attempted to enter Israel on wrong documents at wrong border crossings, I very well may be "harrassed."  You have no clue as to who I am, yet you make these wild unsubstantiated statements.

                          •  Didn't finish... (0+ / 0-)

                            Her complaints about what? Being stripped searched? Being accused of terrorism?

                            Are you saying she's making this all up? Why don't you just come out and call her liar as is your want?

                            Your assertion that she is more knowledgable than me about Israel's entry and exit procedure is not supported by anything

                            Well do you? You keep saying you don't know this or now that but you then attempt to speak as if you do. And secondly, you'd never be as harassed as she would. You'd never be stripped searched in Israel for getting lost or not following directions.

                            How do you deal with the idea that getting lost gets you the criminal treatment of humiliating, invasive strip searches and false accusations of aiding terrorists?

                            You can try to sanitize this all you want but what Israel did to her and others is f'cking digusting.

                            Tell me. If this were to happen to any Jew entering any country, especially if it were Arab, would you be so doubtful as you are now?

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 08:59:19 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Except for the fact of course that Jews (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            zemblan, jhritz

                            are not even permitted to enter most Arab countries, but whatever.

                            Her complaint that she was singled out on the basis of her nationality rather than her actions is not supported by her allegations since she fails to allege that she followed procedures.

                            Israel, as does any other country, has an absolute and unquestionable right to search anyone it wants for however long it wants before letting them into the country.  It need not give reasons.  That is part of State's authority to control its borders.

                          •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

                            You acknowledge that Palestinians are treated differently when it comes to traveling in Israel. Can't have it both ways.

                            Seems to me that according to her diary she travelled to Israel just ONCE before.

                            She entered Israel once. Tried twice more. That's three from one email. Again, reading comprehension.

                            I attempted to enter Israel on wrong documents at wrong border crossings, I very well may be "harrassed."

                            Eh, you wouldn't be stripped searched or accused of aiding terrorists. It's like saying a well-to-do White man (or hell, just White) would be just as harassed for driving through Surbubia by cops as a Black man would be. Well, at least the Black man wouldn't be accused of aiding terrorists, although he would be stripped searched if brought downtown. You're f'cking hilarious, dude.

                            Except for the fact of course that Jews are not even permitted to enter most Arab countries, but whatever

                            Non-responsive.

                            Tell me. If this were to happen to any Jew entering any country, especially if it were Arab, would you be so doubtful as you are now?

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 09:25:57 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  If said Jew violated a number of (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            zemblan, jhritz

                            entry/exit regulations I would be quite blase about him being strip-searched.

                            She entered Israel ONCE. The otehr two times she FAILED.  Precisely because she did not follow the rules.  

                            As to "Black man," let me tell you.  Anyone brought "downtown" would be stripped searched if they are booked into jail.  Black, white, or green.

                          •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

                            A Jew, or for analogy's sake, an Israeli Jew, stripped searched and accused of terrorism for violating entry/exit regulations? And if anyone objected to it here, we can count on you to restate the same 'points' you've made here? Be clear, please.

                            One more thing, are you suggesting she wasn't accused of aiding terrorists?

                            As to "Black man," let me tell you.  Anyone brought "downtown" would be stripped searched if they are booked into jail.  Black, white, or green.

                            I see you ignore the point.

                            It's like saying a well-to-do White man (or hell, just White) would be just as harassed for driving through Surbubia by cops as a Black man would be.

                            Nope. You'd never be treated as she was because she's Palestinian and Palestinians are treated differently on GP alone which you acknowledge. Worse in fact than other foreigners which you don't.

                            She entered Israel ONCE. The otehr two times she FAILED. Precisely because she did not follow the rules.

                            She's traveled to Israel three times. How many times have you traveled to Israel as a Palestinian? Oh, that's right. You're not Palestinian. Same rules don't apply.

                            And ONCE AGAIN, you state as fact that she violated the rules. But please, tell us again how it is she who's saying she violated the rules and not you.

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 10:09:12 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Once again (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            zemblan, jhritz

                            SHE is saying that she used a Chilean passport.  That is against the rules which require her to have a Palestinian passport.

                            SHE is saying that she attempted to enter at Ben Gurion.  That is against the rules which require her to enter at Rafah or Allenby crossing if that was the crossing last used to exit.

                            As to your first question, if a Jew went to a foreign country and attempted to enter it, not once but twice, both times violating a well-known regulation, I would have little trouble taking the same position as I am taking now.

                            She traveled to Israel ONCE not thrice.  The other two times she was turned away at the border, never entering Israel.  But it does not matter.  Even if she travelled there a 100 times, it does not follow (nor does she even allege) that she complied with the relevant entry/exit rules.

                          •  She traveled to Israel thrice, (0+ / 0-)

                            and entered once. She would know in three tries what she needed to do. And would definately know more than you.

                            Did she used only a Chilean passport when she entered the first time? You don't know.

                            Wouldn't she know to have a Palestinian passport the third time, if that's what she needed? You don't know, though it seems likely.

                            Were her parents born in Palestine or aunts and uncles or other family members? You don't know.

                            Are all persons born in the U.S. from Irish parents who themselves were born in Ireland required to have passports for both Ireland and the U.S. when traveling to Israel? The offsprings, not the parents. Or only Palestinians?

                            You realize, you only prove people's point about Israel and racism, right? And yes, racism and bigotry can be made legal in any country.

                            You know far too little to make your weak speculations as facts.

                            And yes, you would object were an Israelis treated the same in any country as it would be an application of racism and bigotry if the punishments for suppossed violations (and I don't accept that Nadia violated any rules, btw) only applied to Israelis.

                            Then again, I seem to remember you having some god-awful ideas American's individual rights once upon a time.

                            I stand corrected.

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 10:42:29 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Actually I do know (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            zemblan, jhritz

                            And if you read her email carefully you would know too.

                            She said that she does not have a Palestinian passport, meaning she entered teh first time also on her Chilean passport.  In an email downthread she states that her father was born in the territories.

                            I don't know what Irealnd has to do with anything.  But Israel requires offsprings of Israeli citizens to travel to Israel on an Israeli passport.  Even if they were born in the US and never lived in Israel.  Same exact rules apply to Palestinians, except that they must have Palestinian passports.  Just like US requires offsprings of US citizens to enter the US on US passports.  Just like Russia requires Russian citizens to enter and depart Russia on RF passports.  Just like Brazilian offsprings have to enter and depart Brazil on Brazilian passports.  These rules are nearly uniform worldwide.

                            You have zero basis to allege that she would know more than me.  You have no idea what she was told, what she understood, and whether she decided to comply.  Rules are rules.  She attempted to enter a foreign country on a wrong passport.  End of story.

                          •  So, (0+ / 0-)

                            she entered Israel the first time on her Chilean passport which was fine and legal that time, but became illegal between that time and this time? Why would she think she needed a Chilean and a Palestinian passport the second time, if that's what she actually needed? And how do you know she didn't have one the third time? And where was the mention that she was told that she came to the wrong entry? Why wouldn't she mention this? Are you suggesting she has motives for lying?

                            The more you go as if you know the facts, the more questions you bring up.

                            And no, you don't know what she went through because you aren't Palestinian. You'll never know what she goes through because you'll never be Palestinian.

                            Where downthread does she states her father was Palestinian?

                            But Israel requires offsprings of Israeli citizens to travel to Israel on an Israeli passport.  Even if they were born in the US and never lived in Israel.  Same exact rules apply to Palestinians, except that they must have Palestinian passports.

                            Can you point me in the direction of this policy? I'd rather read it myself. Are you're suggesting that someone who's born to Israeli citizens in the U.S. for example can't even visit Israel without an Israeli passport when they're U.S. citizens. Wouldn't the U.S. citizenship take precedence? Is this person forced to claim Israeli citizenship just to enter Israel even if this person doesn't want Israeli citizenship?

                            You have zero basis to allege that she would know more than me.  You have no idea what she was told, what she understood, and whether she decided to comply. Rules are rules.  She attempted to enter a foreign country on a wrong passport.  End of story.

                            This is funny. Note the bold. That's what I've been trying to get through to you. You Don't Know. And just like that, you f'ck it up with "She attempted to enter a foreign..." stating it all as fact.

                            You don't get to determine end of story, because as you've just so eloquently stated - You have no idea.

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 11:20:10 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No the US citizenship would not (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            jhritz

                            "take precedence."  Every country can decide who is and who is not its citizen.

                            If someone does not want Israeli citizenship, there is a process for renouncing it, but so long as they are Israeli citizens (even if born abroad) they must enter and depart Israel on Israeli passports.

                            Israeli citizens naturalized in the United States retain their Israeli citizenship, and children born in the United States to Israeli parents usually acquire both U.S. and Israeli nationality at birth.  ... Israeli citizens, including dual nationals, must enter and depart Israel on their Israeli passports, and Israeli authorities may require persons whom they consider to have acquired Israeli nationality at birth to obtain an Israeli passport prior to departing Israel, even if said persons are neither aware of their Israeli nationality nor have any desire to maintain it.

                            http://travel.state.gov/...

                            My father was born in Palestine but he left after 67 war

                            http://www.dailykos.com/...

                            You can bold all you want, but we are right back at the point that she fails to even make the allegation that she followed the required procedures.  Consequently she fails to even make out a prima facie case that she was singled out on the basis of her nationality as opposed to her failure to follow procedures.

                          •  So, (0+ / 0-)

                            someone can renounce Israeli citizenship even being born abroad. Does this mean they will still need an Israeli passport? Of course not. And why would Nadia need Palestinian citizenship when she didn't need it the first time she entered Israel? Did the laws change, D? Can you show me where?

                            Israeli authorities may require persons whom they consider to have acquired Israeli nationality at birth to obtain an Israeli passport prior to departing Israel

                            "may require". It's not absolutely required that one should have an Israeli passport. Don't see anything about entering either.

                            Also, your link addresses Palestinian Americans, not Palestinain Chileans, but let's go with it.

                            American citizens of Palestinian origin may be considered by Israeli authorities to be residents of the West Bank or Gaza

                            "may be". And how does Israel make this determination for others? And then there's the "considered by Israeli authorities"...

                            Any American citizen whom Israel considers to be a resident of the West Bank or Gaza is required by Israel to hold a valid Palestinian passport to enter or leave the West Bank or Gaza via Israel or the Allenby Bridge border crossing.

                            "whom Israel considers". Does Israel do this with all foreigners or just Palestinians? Legalized racism? How does Israel makes this determination? Does the person have a say-so as to whether she wants citizenship to a country in which she was never born?

                            American citizens in this category (the one above) who arrive without a Palestinian passport will generally be granted permission to travel to the West Bank or Gaza to obtain one

                            "will generally be granted permission". To enter via Israel. So it's not a hard and fast rule as you suggest?

                            Persons carrying a Palestinian Authority identity number will not be permitted to enter Israel through Ben Gurion International Airport if their last departure was through the Allenby Bridge or Rafah border crossings.

                            Nadia doesn't have a Palestinian ID, a fact you so eagerly provided. How would the Ben Gurion rule apply to her?

                            OT, kinda:

                            Travelers with Arabic surnames, those who ask that Israeli stamps not be entered into their passports, and unaccompanied female travelers have been delayed and subjected to close scrutiny at points of entry.

                            Legalized racism.

                            Got anything else?

                            You can bold all you want, but we are right back at the point that she fails to even make the allegation that she followed the required procedures.  Consequently she fails to even make out a prima facie case that she was singled out on the basis of her nationality as opposed to her failure to follow procedures.

                            First, we're back to the point where you've acknowledged that "You have no idea".
                            Second, you've already acknowledged that Palestinians are treated differently due to security precautions. Therefore, she would be singled out, legally, though racist, for her nationality.

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 12:23:00 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Forgot this one: (0+ / 0-)

                            Occasionally, the Government of Israel has declined to admit individual American citizens or groups who have expressed sympathy with the Palestinian cause, sought to meet with Palestinian officials, or intended to travel to the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.

                            What's the Palestinian cause? Self-determination?

                            Heh...

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 12:25:42 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Israeli government is under no obligation (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            jhritz

                            to admit anyone who wishes to advocate policies that run contrary to the Israeli governmental policies.

                          •  That's all you gots to say to me, D.? (0+ / 0-)

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 12:40:19 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I don't see how Israel's refusal of entry permits (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            jhritz

                            to those that oppose Israel is indicative of anything other than Israel's exercise of its rights.  

                            Plenty of European countries refuse entry to US citizens whom they consider unsavory.

                          •  I love your selective reading. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            jhritz

                            I have no idea why she was permitted to enter the first time, but not the second.  Whether the law changed is utterly irrelevant.  Even if the law existed beforehand the fact that it was not applied once, does not mean that it can never be applied again.  That's like saying "I always go 10 mph over the speed limit, so why are you pulling me over today?"  

                            Every country has teh authority to decide who is and who is not its citizen.  A person may renounce that citizenship in accord with the relevant country laws, but there is nothing whatsoever racist about each country determining who is and who is not its citizen.

                            Your reading is ridiculously selective.  You seem to omit this phrase

                            Israeli citizens, including dual nationals, must enter and depart Israel on their Israeli passports

                            As to Palestinian ID, that she does not have one, even though required to, does not exempt her from the Ben Gurion rules.  Otherwise the rule would be completely uneforceable.  Everyone could say "oh, I just don't have my ID on me, so you gotta let me enter."  She had to have a Palestinian passport and therefore was subject to those rules.

                            As to travellers with "Arabic surnames," that of course applies to everyone even Jews from Arabic countries.  And not surprising since every Arabic country save Jordan and Israel is technically at a state of war with Israel.  Is it any wonder that people with connection to those countries that are avowed enemies of Israel face more scrutiny?  That's not racism, that's reasonable security measures.

                            And I did not acknowledge that I have no idea.  I am maintaining that she has failed to allege sufficient facts to maintain the charge that she has been singled out on the basis of nationality.

                          •  First, (0+ / 0-)

                            you don't know whether there was a change in law, yet you state that she needed both passports as if you do know the law which you've acknowledged that you don't.

                            Second, the change in law is very relevant if it contributed to Israel's decision to refuse entry. I don't buy it, but we're pretending that you're right for the moment.

                            Every country has teh authority to decide who is and who is not its citizen.

                            True. Israel has authority to decide one's citizenship to Israel. I never disputed that. However, Israel does not have the authority to determine someone citizenship of another country based solely on Israel's "consideration". Iow, I'm not a Britain national just because Israel made this determination based Israel's 'consideration'.

                            Israeli authorities may require persons whom they consider to have acquired Israeli nationality at birth to obtain an Israeli passport prior to departing Israel

                            This suggests they didn't have one when they entered Israel. Where did the person acquire nationality at birth? In Israel or abroad?

                            Israeli citizens, including dual nationals, must enter and depart Israel on their Israeli passports

                            This suggests that they would already have one. It doesn't suggest that they are required to get one to enter Israel. Provide a direct quote, please.

                            As for this:

                            As to Palestinian ID, that she does not have one, even though required to, does not exempt her from the Ben Gurion rules.

                            Show me where those without Palestinian IDs are required to have Palestinian passports enter at Ben Gurion?

                            From the link:

                            All U.S. citizens with dual nationality must enter the U.S. on their U.S. passports.

                            Where's the AND Palestinian passport?

                            Everyone could say "oh, I just don't have my ID on me, so you gotta let me enter."

                            Israel is technologically advanced. Enter a name into the system, voila, a Palestinian ID returns...or not. Otherwise, you're suggesting that Israel would accept only the word of Palestinians if any claimed to posses a Palestinian ID. That ain't what you're saying is it? I thought not.

                            She had to have a Palestinian passport and therefore was subject to those rules.

                            But you don't know the law and your link suggests that this isn't a hard, absolute rule. The link you provided indicates those with Palestinian origins CAN be allowed entry. And in fact, Nadia was. She entered Israel before without the passport as one with Palestinian origin.

                            I am maintaining that she has failed to allege sufficient facts to maintain the charge that she has been singled out on the basis of nationality.

                            In other words, "You have no idea".

                            Plenty of European countries refuse entry to US citizens whom they consider unsavory.

                            And those who sympathize with Palestinian self-determination or a Palestinian state are 'unsavory'?

                            Yes. Legalized racism in effect.

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 02:03:46 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It absolutely does not matter whether the law (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            jhritz

                            changed or not.  The law is what it is NOW.  Nor does it matter whether the rule is ironclad or subject to discretionary enforcement.  Much like speeding.  The point is the rule is there, and she chose to attempt to enter Israel on a Chilean passport when Israeli law required her to enter on a Palestinian one.  End of story.

                            Your reading is bordering on retarded.  Seriously.  If citizens MUST enter on an Israeli passport then it follows that they MUST get one before travelling to Israel.

                            Israel is also entitled (as the administering authority of the teritories) to prescribe the documents necessary to enter those territories for both residents and descendants.  That much is absolutely unquestioned.

                            All U.S. citizens with dual nationality must enter the U.S. on their U.S. passports.

                            Where's the AND Palestinian passport?

                            That's more retardedness.  They obviously don't need the Palestinian passport to enter the U.S.  They need one to enter ISRAEL.

                            And once again, for the dense among us, since she is the one leveling charges that she was singled out on the basis of nationality, it is incumbent upon HER (not me) to at the very least allege (not to mention prove) certain facts.  She fails to allege that she followed proper procedures.  Consequently, she fails to make out a case for discrimination.

                            And denying entry to the people who "support Palestinian cause" is not racist , since by definition the denial is not based on race, but on political views.  Perhaps you should look up "racism in a dictionary."

                            And a final note.  I won't let you have a last word on this one.  Primarily because your posts are asinine and distortive.  (Neither which is really news).

                          •  End of Story. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Diaries

                            But you don't know the law remember? You acknowledged as much, therefore you can't declare "end of story".

                            You can't explain whey she was allowed to enter before with only a Chilean passport the first time, can you?

                            Your reading is bordering on retarded.

                            Heh...

                            Explain why people who aren't born in Israel are required to have Israeli passports to enter Israel. Direct quote please. And explain how people are required to have Israeli passports to leave Israel but not required to obtain one when entering Israel. I'm speaking of descendents by the way. Direct quotes please.

                            Explain how people without Palestinian ID are required to have Palesinian passports to enter at Ben Gurion when Israel doesn't require it. You've yet to even touch that one.

                            she is the one leveling charges that she was singled out on the basis of nationality, it is incumbent upon HER (not me) to at the very least allege (not to mention prove) certain facts

                            Everyone Palestinian is singled out based on their 'nationality'. Everyone who has Palestinian origin are singled out based on this origin. Both cases are explicitly stated as such in the link you provided. Stated several times in fact. Secondly, according to Israel, it is not absolutely required that those with Palestinian origin need Palestinian passports to enter Israel. According to Israel, it is not required that those without Palestinin IDs are to enter elsewhere other than Ben Gurion. Point it out to me if I'm in error. Direct quote please.

                            Oh, and the racism I'm refering to is the treatment of Arabs by Israel.

                            I won't let you have a last word on this one.  Primarily because your posts are asinine and distortive.

                            Most in the human race recognizes that what Israel did to this woman was disgusting and racist. Most recognize the authorities who did this were racist thugs. However, it amuses me to watch you cut your own throat in print. And when I get bored, I'll drop your ass like a two dollar whore and send you back to the track.

                            Go ahead and have the last word. You've earned it and I'm officially and sufficiently bored.

                            Consider yourself dropped. :)

                            The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                            by callmecassandra on Sat May 05, 2007 at 03:31:43 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I do know the law as I cited to you previously (0+ / 0-)

                            She needed a Palestinian passport and did not have one.  It is utterly irrelvant whether or not the law existed before and whetehr it was eforced before.

                            People who are not born in Israel but are citizens by descent are required to have Israeli passports.  Just like people born abroad to US citizen parents are required to have US passports to come to the US.  I already provided direct quotes.  Do read carefully.

                            People of Palestinian origin are "singled out" much as people of Israeli origin are.  Both of them have to have local documentation from local competent authorities to enter and depart the country.  

                            Once again, the lady in question fails to allege sufficient facts to conclude that her treatment was based on race rather than violation of the relevant rules of entry and exit.

                            So suck it.

                          •  Countless Stories of Humiliation (0+ / 0-)

                            Excerpt from Dr. Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian, professor at Hebrew University in Jerusalem

                            http://www.nif.org/...

                            This whole process of humiliation lasted between 1:40 pm- 4:30 pm. I ended up with bad chest pain and dizziness, which led to vomiting and exhaustion.

                            I called some friends to help me out, but no one was able to change the situation. I left the airport, unable to breath, walk or function. The whole process of turning me as a Palestinian woman into a naked entity, with no value, no voice, no respect and no power to fight back, made me refuse to fly. How could I fly as a human, when all they wanted to do is to strip me from my humanity, using all the power they have, while stealing from me even my ability to protect my daughters’ photograph, my writings, my reading material, my laptop and my other personal belongings?

                            I know from speaking with many other Palestinian academics that my treatment is not unique, in fact, not only Palestinian academics (with or without Israeli citizenship) but all Arabs are profiled as security risks. We experience humiliation and restricted freedom of movement on a daily basis.

                          •  Once again (0+ / 0-)

                            Detailed searches are common at all borders.  They are more common in Israel given the security situation.  

                            She was not searched by opposite sex officials and it was not done publicly.  It may be uncomfortable and even humiliating, but that is standard procedure in various countries.

                            Oh, not to mention the fact that at least Israel lets Arabs enter, while plenty of Arab countries refuse entry to Jews, those that have visited Israel and even fellow Arabs carrying Israeli passports.

            •  I had to strip (6+ / 0-)

              and was kept in a room for three hours.  The object is to ensure that we're so humiliated that we don't return.  At least I wasn't menustrating like Maysoon Zaid, who also has cerebral palsey. She was put in a position in which she bled all over herself for a few hours.  We're both American citizens, by the way.  The Israelis ask who one's grandfather is.  Read Maysoon's e-mail about her ordeal:

              http://umkahlil.blogspot.com/...

        •  When the law is immoral, it is immoral to (6+ / 0-)

          follow the law.  I believe that if they are discriminating in how they apply this strip search, then it is absolutely immoral.

          Find a local farmers market near you. http://www.localharvest.org/

          by bittergirl on Fri May 04, 2007 at 04:37:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  it figures someone would... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      litho, callmecassandra, Diaries

      ...defend this pathetic nonsense...surprised i made it this far in the comments before i found it!

    •  Nadia was born (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      weasel, Sabbah

      in Chile.  This is from an e-mail from Nadia:

      No, i was not born in Palestine, i wish!
      I dont have Palestinian Documents of any kind, i am a full chilean citizen. (My father was born in Palestine but he left after 67 war, he dont have also palestinian ID, if he want enter in his country, in his home town, he must do it as a chilean tourist, there is no other way).

      •  That does not matter (0+ / 0-)

        Israeli law views first generation descendants of both Israelis and Palestinians as Israeli and Palestinian citizens respectively and requires them to enter the country on the appropriate passport.  (Much like any person born anywhere in the world to US citizen parents must enter and depart the US on a US passport even if they are coming just as tourists).

      •  Furthemore, if she was not born (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JPhurst

        in the territories all of the wailing in this diary how Israel prevents people from returning to their "homes" is BS.  Since she was not born there, she is hardly "returning" anywhere.

  •  Oh myyyy. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bittergirl, james risser, Diaries

    Doing what Nazi Germany did your parents to others...will not give them security nor dignity. This is sad......PERIOD.

    Ever heard being original? Too bad, look it up in the dictionary...

    by Dem Soldier on Fri May 04, 2007 at 02:35:19 PM PDT

  •  An abomination, these stories make me weep with (6+ / 0-)

    Outrage.

    This woman was born (or her family was) in the occupied lands and now someone has the right to control here movements in and out?

    How would you feel if you were born abroad of US parents and then given all kind of shit when you attempt to enter the US?

    Palestinians will be free from occupation.
    Just a matter of time.

    Tim Robbins Apatheid movie "To Catch a Fire" really captures the essence of the illegal, immoral, subjugation of a whole people. It captures the frustration and conversion to militarism instead of dialogue by the people occupied.

    It, Apartheid did not stand.

    -Slavery of Blacks here inthe US did not stand.
    -Slavery of the Jews by Egyptian Pharoah did not stand
    -Colonialism by the British here in the US and Africa, India etc DID NOT stand.

    This will end too.

  •  One little correction (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bittergirl, james risser

    In Chilean Spanish, the Foreign Minister is known as the Canciller.  When Nadia speaks of the "Chancellor," she really means the Foreign Minister.

  •  What is truly scandalous (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sofia, umkahlil

    I know Nadia (in a virtual way). In fact, this same article is on my blog and is being translated into other languages for worldwide dissemination. I was surprised to see some of these comments missing the point: she was sent a letter by the Israel Foreign Affairs Ministry that said she was NO LONGER being denied entry into Israel. With this letter, she then made her plans to go to Israel. Of course, we then have to ask, "why did Israel send a letter such as this, if the intention was to DENY her entry and to also make her submit to lengthy interrogation?" Of course, any nation sets its own entrance policy, and Israel's is based on racial criteria, which one can detest, as I do, but for them to send a "nulla osta" to this woman, and subsequently act as if she had connections with terrorists, and that her reasons for coming to Israel were to "blow herself up in Tel Aviv" (they have seen too many movies, these Rambos of the IDF airport security) is if nothing else, a pretext for something else, and I believe Nadia understood it well, to create a dossier against her, because Israel has no RIGHT to deny entry to a Chilean national who has no record whatsoever of illegal activity!

    I understand that someone here thinks that Palestinians have a passport... I don't think I've ever seen one! My friends all have Jordanian ones, except for two that have Israeli ones, and they consider themselves 100% Palestinians. Is Palestine a State? Really???? Since when????

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site