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"We'll make a pastrami sandwich of them. We'll insert a strip of Jewish settlement, right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years time, neither the United Nations, nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart."-Ariel Sharon to Winston Churchill III, 1971.

"The crisis facing Palestinians nowadays has been created by no other than some European philanthropists in concert with policy makers in Washington and Tel Aviv. But aside from the political and financial boycott mounted against the democratically elected Palestinian government, Israel has not shown readiness to go to a full truce in all of the Occupied Territories similarly to the truce that was holding in the Gaza Strip prior to this latest barrage of Qassam rockets and Israeli military retributions.

"Palestinians are in support of a full truce that would encompass both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank...

"While Palestinians are ready to be realistic they are not ready to surrender their rights.

"Our struggle is to end Israeli occupation once and for all and to secure the inalienable rights of our people."- Dr. Bernard Sabella, Christian member of Palestinian Legislative Council Representing Jerusalem, in an email received May 28, 2007.

"Lip service for peace abounds but in the end the test that peace is possible is laid back onto the Palestinian President and Palestinians in general. They are expected to deliver particularly on the security issue while the more powerful Israeli neighbor/occupier can continue with all kinds of policies and measures intended to contain and control Palestinians.  

"So Palestinians are placed in the most difficult position: as they express genuine desire and eagerness for peace and as they are suffering a prolonged military occupation they are also asked to provide Israel with a hermetically guaranteed security. Only then would Israel feel comfortable and would possibly ready itself for talks with the "well behaved" Palestinians.

"Meanwhile Israel continues to exercise its prerogative agenda of separation, hundreds of checkpoints, expansion of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and other measures of dispossession of Palestinians and their land.  This situation certainly spells further frustration and disappointment among Palestinians as it seriously weakens not only the Presidential Institution but other Palestinian governing institutions as well. Israeli measures on the ground in the Occupied West Bank, whether by plan or serendipitously, are eroding both the possibility and feasibility of a two-state solution.

"The resulting cantonization of West Bank towns, villages and communities and their separation from each other and from their rural and commercial hinterlands would in the long run become ripe ground for the development of extremist groups bent on confronting Israeli occupation and the expanding Israeli Jewish settlement of Palestinian lands. On the Israeli side, Israel would increasingly be characterized as having turned its back to values so long cherished by its own people in their long and complex history and experience because of the ways of separation and control that it chooses to continue to exercise over the Palestinians and their land."- Dr. Bernard Sabella, May 22, 2007

On May 18, 2007, Jimmy Carter spoke with Gaby Wood of The Observer at the Carter Centre in Atlanta. Carter's 21st book since he left office in 1981, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid was topic one.

Carter remained firm in his view that:

"thanks to the current administration - the situation in 'the most volatile region of the world' is the worst it has ever been. The war in Iraq, he made clear, has cemented Arab animosity towards the United States and Israel, strengthened Iran, and given Hamas and Hizbollah new life. 'This is the first administration since Israel became a nation that hasn't made any real effort to have peace talks,' he told me. 'We haven't had a single day of peace talks now in six years and five months. It's left a vacuum there, and vacuums are always filled with increased violence.'"[1]

In a phone interview with an Arkansas newspaper, Carter had been asked to compare Bush's foreign policy with that of Richard Nixon. He replied that 'as far as the adverse impact on the nation around the world, this administration has been the worst in history'. The same day, James Naughtie asked Carter on Radio 4's Today what he thought of Tony Blair's relationship with Bush. He said he thought it was 'abominable; loyal, blind, apparently subservient'." 2 [IBID]

The down side was Carter's television interview attempting to retract some of his statement, appearing to regret breaking the unspoken rule - that past presidents do not insult current incumbents, even when it is the truth.

"Since I left the White House, I've probably spent more time in Sudan than in the Middle East, because we can only go to the Middle East when I'm able to get permission from the White House. And, uh, that permission has been spasmodic, to say the least [but he is] immersed in the Mid-East situation constantly."

When Carter's book was published, the Anti-Defamation League, led by the pro-Israeli Abraham Foxman, ran large ads in all the major US newspapers attacking the book for engaging in anti-Semitism.

Carter replied,

"If I thought I was wrong about anything I'm saying, I'd be devastated by the way I'm being attacked. But I believe in what I'm saying...[apartheid] the word is the most accurate available to describe Palestine. Apartheid is when two different people live in the same land, and they are forcibly segregated, and one dominates or persecutes the other. That's what's happening in Palestine: so the word is very, very accurate. It's used widely, and every day, in Israel."

"The US Jewish Establishment's onslaught on former President Jimmy Carter is based on him daring to tell the truth which is known to all; through its army, the government of Israel practices a brutal form of Apartheid in the territory it occupies. Its army has turned every Palestinian village and town into a fenced-in, or blocked-in, detention camp."- Israeli Minister of Education, Shulamit Aloni quoted in Yediot Acharonot, December 20, 2006.

Carter continued,

"There's no possibility in our country of a member of Congress or a candidate for President saying that they're going to take a balanced position between Israel and the Palestinians - or to speak out with concern about Palestinian human rights: that's impossible in this country."

Carter first traveled to Israel in 1973 as Governor of Georgia and felt that

"the 'plight' of the Arabs 'seemed of relative insignificance to me...the Arabs were not being persecuted then. There were a total of 1,500 Israeli settlers in the West Bank, and they had been on kibbutzim - individual farms that they had acquired - for decades. And that was before there was any massive effort by the Israeli government to colonize the West Bank in order to confiscate it. I met with the top leaders in Israel, and all of them presumed that that land belonged to the Palestinians, and there was no concept at that point, at least by the ones with whom I met, that they would simply take over that land and keep it permanently, as it seems to be now." [IBID]

In November 2005, this reporter attended the Gainesville, Florida, Anarchist’s Against the Wall Power Point Lecture by Jonathon Pollak, an intense young Israeli and committed activist and organizer for Anarchist’s Against the Wall/AAtW, a collaborative NONVIOLENT resistance and civil disobedience group of Palestinians, Israelis and Internationals dedicated to bringing the separation/apartheid wall down.

Pollak said, "During the negotiations of the so-called Oslo Peace Process from 1993-2000, Israel simply imposed its will on the Palestinians, using its overwhelming military and economic power, and US support.  During seven years of supposed peace, Palestinians saw 200,000 new Israeli settlers arrive in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, the same number of settlers that had arrived there in the previous 26 years.

"However, the recent grassroots struggle against Israel’s Wall has demonstrated that it may be possible to counter Israel’s overwhelming power, and its exploitation of negotiations, through nonviolent resistance.  The Wall, one blatant recent Israeli attempt to impose its will, has become a focus for civilian resistance.

"Although Israel marketed the Wall as a security barrier, logic suggests such a barrier would be as short and straight as possible. Instead, it snakes deep inside the West Bank, resulting in a route that is twice as long as the Green Line, the internationally recognized border.  Israel chose the Wall’s path in order to dispossess Palestinians of the maximum land and water, to preserve as many Israeli settlements as possible, and to unilaterally determine a border.

"In order to build the Wall Israel is uprooting tens of thousands of ancient olive trees that for many Palestinians are also the last resource to provide food for their children. The Palestinian aspiration for an independent state is also threatened by the Wall, as it isolates villages from their mother cities and divides the West Bank into disconnected cantons [bantusans/ghettos]. The Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem conservatively estimates that 500,000 Palestinians are negatively impacted by the Wall.

"Faced with a history of suffering, Palestinians have no alternative but to struggle. The only question is how? Killing diminishes our humanity, and Israel’s occupation, which has killed thousands of Palestinians, shouldn’t be our teacher. It is time for both sides to refuse killing.

"We believe that, as with Apartheid South Africa, Americans have a vital role to play in ending Israeli occupation - by divesting from companies that support Israeli occupation, boycotting Israeli products, coming to Palestine as witnesses, or standing with Palestinians in nonviolent resistance.

"We are confident that Israeli occupation will one day be defeated, as were other US government supported repressive regimes - Apartheid South Africa, Pinochet’s Chile and racial segregation in the United States. There is no price too great to pay for freedom, and nothing will deter us from achieving this goal."

"If apartheid in South Africa ended, so can the occupation of Palestine. But, the moral force and international pressure will have to be just as determined." Bishop Desmond Tutu, The Nation, July 15, 2002.

Sources:

  1. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/...
  1. Memoirs of a Nice Irish-American Girl's Life in Occupied Territoryby Eileen Fleming, Chapter 5 "Anarchist's Against The Wall"

The good news is the international community is exerting pressure and it begins with the Global June 5th initiative:

Two States, Two People = One Peace

http://www.june5thinitiative.org/

On June 5th, the AAtW will be in the streets of Tel Aviv painting the town and throughout the world people of all faiths and none are rising up and saying ENOUGH!!!

We the people for JUSTICE + PEACE will be in the streets of DC to light a FIRE under Congress June 10-11, 2007:

http://www.endtheoccupation.org/

"If you are not a part of the solution; you are a part of the problem."-Eldridge Cleaver

Originally posted to eileen fleming on Tue May 29, 2007 at 05:00 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Will this be crossposted on that hate site too? (11+ / 0-)

    Equating a terrorist leader with Moses is unacceptable.

    by Pumpkinlove on Tue May 29, 2007 at 04:53:46 AM PDT

    •  Please identify the "hate site" you (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hatu, hypersphere01

      keep referring to.

      "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

      by bobdevo on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:04:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's called "peoplesvoice.org" (9+ / 0-)

        ... and it contains posts from white supremacists, Holocaust deniers, "The Pope is a Zionist Agent" types -- and an advertisement from Eileen Fleming.

      •  The site in questions hosts (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dvo, MajorFlaw, Pumpkinlove, MBNYC, GoldnI, EnderRS
        •  You have a problem with: (12+ / 0-)

          The attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001 were false-flag attacks conducted by Mossad and Zionist Jews with primary loyalty to Israel who had infiltrated the Bush administration, especially the defense department, but also every other strategic position that needed to be covered in order to pull of the false-flag attack. The purpose of the attack was to motivate the United States’ war on Islam and to degrade the American republic in the same way and for the same reason that the Jewish merchant bankers sought to degrade Iraq. (They also wanted to control Afganistan — but that was more because the Moslem Taliban had been erradicating the opium crops that provide the basic ingredient for Chinese heroin sold in Europe and elsewhere with revenues of over a $trillion a year that are laundered into the Jewish Merchant banks and then invested in the industrialization of China.)

          Geez, there's just no pleasing some people.

        •  In the interests of accuracy . . . (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          londonbear, hypersphere01

          and with the caveat that my comment does not in any way support moronic statements like the 12/09/06 one referenced . . I would point out that:

          1.  the crazy anti-Zionist screed appeared to me to be a "letter to the editor" - and - as such - the website may not asserted any more control over the content than Kos does over postings on Daily Kos;
          1.  "Anti-Zionist" does not necessarily equate to anti-Semitism, as there are plenty of leftist Israelis who have serious problems with Israeli policy toward Palestinians; and
          1.  Governnance based upon religious fundamentalism - be it Christian, Judaic or Islamic - is always a very bad idea.

          "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

          by bobdevo on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:02:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Anti-zionist does not equate (9+ / 0-)

            to anti-semitism, true, but it does expressly mean that you do not think the state of Israel should exist -- I think that's a fringe view and many anti-zionist posters here are trying to channel outrage at the situation in the territories into the view that Israel should be disbanded as a state.

            •  Depends what you mean by "Zionist" (6+ / 0-)

              Since Zionism as a modern movement includes the desire to absorb parts of the West Bank and even beyond into a "Greater Israel", it is perfectly possible to be "anti-Zionist" and not take the view that Israel should immediately be disbanded as a state.

              More interesting are those on here who deny International Law applies to Israel and that the right of conquest in annexing land unilaterally (as in the case of Jerusalem) applies.

              If there is one yardstick of a "liberal" or "progressive" I would have thought it was in the tradition of Eleanor Roosevelt and her championing of the UN and the rule of International Law it represents, however imperfectly.

              That's an entirely valid point - MBNYC

              by londonbear on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:59:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're republicaning (9+ / 0-)

                Defining a word as something you hate and then tarring people with it.

                Zionism means support of the existence of a state of Israel, period, that is the academic definition of the word.  Just because some right-wingers have claimed that they're the true zionists while land-for-peacers are "self hating jews" or whatever doesn't make them right.

                Anti-zionism, therefore, is being against the existence of the state of Israel.

                anti-occupation is one thing, anti-zionism another.  If you're against the existence of Israel, that's apparently ok, but don't dance around it and pretend that you're really concerned about the Palestinians' human rights and that's it.

              •  "Zionism" is no more homogeneous than (10+ / 0-)

                "liberalism," "socialism," or many other political movements. Accordingly, it is inaccurate to say that "Zionism as a modern movement includes the desire to absorb parts of the West Bank and even beyond into a 'Greater Israel'." The accurate formulation would be that Zionism as a modern movement includes some who desire . . ., and others who do not.

                The essence of Zionism, however, has to do -- emplying metonymy -- with Israel's continued right to exist as a state with a Jewish character. If one is against that, then one is anti-Zionist. This, I think, is the sense of the recent Ha'aretz editorial making the point that "without acknowledging the Jewish character of the State of Israel, there is not even a basis for dialogue" with Israel.

                If one is against a Greater Israel, one may or may not also be anti-Zionist, but not by virtue of that position. I, for example, who have against the Greater Israel folly all my adult political life, regard myself as a Zionist in the sense defined above.

                Al Gore should be president.

                by another American on Tue May 29, 2007 at 09:10:42 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I thought (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Hatu, bobdevo, npbeachfun

                  My shorthand of "includes" recognises your first point AA however I would appreciate a shorthand word for rejecting the expansionist view whilst recognising the existence of Israel.

                  That's an entirely valid point - MBNYC

                  by londonbear on Tue May 29, 2007 at 09:35:21 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The reason I don't think your formulation works (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    unfounded

                    is that a person it describes as "anti-Zionist" very well could be "Zionist" or "pro-Zionist" in the sense that I use it.

                    You raise an interesting question, however. Is there a shorthand word to describe someone who opposes, or rejects, Greater Israel policies while supporting, or accepting, Israel's continued existence as a state with a Jewish character?

                    At present, I cannot think of a one-word answer that does the trick. But if you'll allow me more than one word I can offer a few possibilities off the top of my head:

                    • a supporter of a two-state solution; or

                    • a supporter of two states for two peoples.

                    I intend both these formulations as shorthand for something like the following:

                    • a supporter of an end-of-conflict two-state peace settlement based on the creation of a state of Palestine alongside Israel, the Palestinian state comprising the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (subject to mutually agreed territorial exchanges), with realization of the Jewish Law of Return being limited to the state of Israel and realization of a Palestinian Right of Return being limited to the state of Palestine.

                    In turn, this formulation only hints at additional details.

                    I hope this helps.

                    Al Gore should be president.

                    by another American on Tue May 29, 2007 at 10:10:35 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Me. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      unfounded, npbeachfun

                      I support Israel's existence but am opposed to the Grater Israeli concept, as it will only lead to more troubles down the road.

                      No justice - no peace. Simple concept.

                      The best thing that can be said for Israel, however, is the continued existence of a loyal opposition with freedom to express themselves.

                      "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

                      by bobdevo on Tue May 29, 2007 at 10:13:24 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  Exactly. (0+ / 0-)

                Keeping in mind that Israel is currently or has been in violation of 138 UN resolutions, and that at the hard edge where Zionism and Judaic fundamentalism meet, claims for land are based upon biblical sources.

                "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

                by bobdevo on Tue May 29, 2007 at 10:10:42 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  regarding that hate site (3+ / 0-)

      recommended diarist "theyrereal" posts at that site as well, a quick glance through the comments in his currently recommended diary failed to find anyone asking him why he was posting on a hate site, could it be his subject matter? i dont know. (actually i do)

      50 foot jesus take me home

      by howardx on Tue May 29, 2007 at 11:17:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, you mean the fellow on (0+ / 0-)

        the rec list with the CT diary today? The same guy who posted this gem a few days ago.

        "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." ~ Diderot

        by Bouwerie Boy on Tue May 29, 2007 at 11:29:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  exactly (4+ / 0-)

          he is also crossposting to a hate site but none of you guys seem to care about him doing it, why is that?

          50 foot jesus take me home

          by howardx on Tue May 29, 2007 at 11:31:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I actually don't look at this site (0+ / 0-)

            and have not commented on Eileen's posting or advertsiing there. However, it does not surprise me that both EF and Theyrereal are participants at this CT site.

            "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." ~ Diderot

            by Bouwerie Boy on Tue May 29, 2007 at 11:37:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  other than the brenda starr pic (4+ / 0-)

              you havent commented. my question is this, why the TOTAL OUTRAGE over eileen crossposting there and absolutely nothing about theyrereal? if its a hate site then anyone who crossposts there should get the same treatment unless since theyrereal doesnt diary about israel your side doesnt care.

              50 foot jesus take me home

              by howardx on Tue May 29, 2007 at 11:41:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well, for one (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Pumpkinlove, MBNYC

                Cross-posting on an anti-semitic site directly calls into question your motives for criticizing Israel.

                It may do so as well when it comes to your motives for leaving the democratic party but they're not quite as closely related.

                I think the "wolf in sheep's clothing" aspect of posting out of quote "concern for palestinians" while you're all over a jew-hating site is what drives the outrage for many, it does for me at least.

                But yeah, the other guy is a douche too if that's what you're looking for :)

                •  what i want (3+ / 0-)

                  is just one person from your side to admit that its rank hypocrisy to pillory one person for cross posting there and to completely ignore another. NOT HOLDING MY BREATH ON THAT.

                  50 foot jesus take me home

                  by howardx on Tue May 29, 2007 at 12:17:29 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Heh, (0+ / 0-)

                    if I had to pillory every idiot on this website I'd need to clone myself 5 times and have 4 of them spend all day doing so while the 5th brought food and whiskey (to better the insulting).

                    I didn't do the digging to find out Eileen's story and didn't for this other jackass.  I think they both stink but being a rank anti-semite doesn't reflect quite as badly on an anti-war diary that makes no mention of jews as it does on a constant stream of anti-Israeli propaganda.

                    But seriously, I've reached over the aisle plenty of times in these threads.  I told Keith Moon to cool it on some of the rhetoric the other day.  If we had a stream of once-daily diarists claiming that the Palestinians were the worst people in the world, I'd tell them to cool it and TR eventually if they kept posting inaccurate diaries in bad faith as this diarist has done.  Luckily, we don't..  the worst thing from the pro-I side are Keith's mickey mouse diaries which, while missing the forest for the trees, are at least not dog-whistle racism and accusations that the Palestinians are responsible for, I dunno, the rise in gas prices or something.

                  •  Well, I don't view myself as on (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    howardx, JuniperLea

                    any side here, however I do agree with your point. If those calling out this fact with EF do not address the same issue with theyrereal or others then you certainly are correct in citing hypocracy. Are you certain they have not?

                    "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." ~ Diderot

                    by Bouwerie Boy on Tue May 29, 2007 at 12:50:41 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Well, there are two possibilities. (0+ / 0-)

                Either it's a product of the grand Zionist Censorship bit, or else I sadly neglected, upon seeing Eileen's post at the hate site, to immediately drop everything and check all 100000+ DKos user ids to see whether they also post on the hate site.

                No, that couldn't possibly be it. Must be the Zionist plot.

                Thanks for the tipoff, howardx.

      •  Thank you for bringing this to my attention. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MBNYC

        I have now commented.  I do not recall reading anything by this author before nor would a diary titled "will bush walk away in 2009" catch my attention.  I tend to read education, environment and i/p.    

        The only other name on this site I recognize as from DKos was Shergald's.  I am hoping I did not miss any.

        Equating a terrorist leader with Moses is unacceptable.

        by Pumpkinlove on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:48:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Some background on this diarist for those just (11+ / 0-)
  •  To ALL Hate-Mongers esp. Pumpkin Love (11+ / 3-)

    I had just posted this diary, and you show up with another lame attempt to hi-jack my diary.

    NO WAY you could have read this diary in the few seconds after it was posted.

    Maybe you are illiterate or just so full of fear and hate yourself, you just can't help but project it everywhere.

    Email from Bethlehem, May 29, 2007:

    Greetings and Salaam from Palestine.

    The Stop Bleeding of Bethlehem Campaign has a new Blog website.  For more information with regarding Non Violent Direct actions in the Bethlehem area in Palestine please visit:  
    http://stopbethlehembleeding.wordpre...

    For more information with regarding previous actions please visit:

    Below one can find links to videos showing what happened in Artas village during the past few days.

    these links for uprooting the trees Sunday May 20the in the morning

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    Below you find links to the attack on protesters on same Sunday afternoon.

    http://www.imemc.org/...

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    George S. Rishmawi
    Coordinator,
    Siraj, Center For Holy Land Studies
    Schools Street, Beit Sahour
    Palestine
    Website: www.sirajcenter.org
    Email: george@sirajcenter.org

  •  Well, you're typing (or spelling)... (8+ / 0-)

    ...is getting better.  Although it is simply "Anarchist" - "Anarchist's" would mean possessed by a single anarchist, which would be ironic, considering that anarchists aren't so big with the private property and possessions thing.

    You are becoming more coherent in the expression of your ideas as well.  Kudos, although the book by Mr. Carter has been diaried innumerable times.  I only wish he'd show the courage of his standing by his choices with that book with his criticisms of the current President.

    Hopefully, this time you won't lose it in the comments.  Otherwise, a good sign of improvement in my humble opinion, and if I could add a single piece of advice - don't use too many quotes.  I'm a big fan of using them myself, but overuse of them tends to break up the coherence of a diary.

    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

    by Jay Elias on Tue May 29, 2007 at 05:00:40 AM PDT

    •  Dear Jay (6+ / 0-)

      It is encouraging to read a thoughful comment.

      You are right; I am limited in spelling, grammar and punctuation, but NOT in passion for justice and truth.

      Your advice is appreciated and I agree with yiu on his back pedaling about Bush.

      e
      http://www.wearewideawake.org/

      •  The funny thing... (9+ / 0-)

        ...is that I made a typographical error myself; that should be "Your typing" not "You're".  

        My Grandma the English Professor would be humiliated.

        Passion for truth is something always to be valued, in my opinion (I'm not always such a big fan of what passes for "justice" in this world) but if I could offer one more piece of advice, it would be to remain calm in the comments, and to do the best you can to be open to the questions of others.  I often fall short of this myself, so don't beat yourself up if you do at times either.  But, almost universally, when I allow others, even those with whom I disagree greatly and who disagree as strongly with me, to question my own beliefs and values, I profit.  Often, you will end up in disagreements that cannot be resolved, but simply saying "we cannot agree" is enough to move on from the argument.

        I've been to the West Bank.  I understand the anger and the passion that many take from the experience.  But keeping that anger and passion from overwhelming the discussion of the issue here is important for it to be effective.  In my humble opinion, of course, and feel free to take it or not.

        The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

        by Jay Elias on Tue May 29, 2007 at 05:15:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  dear Jay (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hatu, londonbear, hypersphere01

          I am LOL as I never would have known you made a typo!

          I LOVE it when people engage in debate on my actual words!

          If only all readers would do that!

          I suppose it is immaturity or FEAR that compels anal retentives and hate mongers to attack just to attack, for they lack eyes to see what I actually wrote.

          JUSTICE requires equal human rights for all people and when the gold standard of International Law becomes the standard that ALL democracies abide by, justice, peace and security will flow.

          •  The only one making personal attacks here is you. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MajorFlaw, jhritz, dmnyct

            Equating a terrorist leader with Moses is unacceptable.

            by Pumpkinlove on Tue May 29, 2007 at 05:29:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think you've made your point (6+ / 0-)

              She links to a hate site, she cross-posts there, you and many others (including myself, when it comes right down to it) don't approve.  I'm sure that the frontpagers and Hunter are aware at this point too.

              I'm not trying to pick on you, pumpkinlove, or to take her side, but since you are the longer-tenured poster and the one I know far better, can I say that before we go any further into this cycle of name-calling and accusing each other of being "hate-mongers" (which frankly is a bit ridiculous of an accusation for anyone at this site for more than a month) that perhaps not every personal attack demands a reply?

              The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

              by Jay Elias on Tue May 29, 2007 at 05:40:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  once more (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Hatu, hypersphere01, Chilean Jew

                A writer writes to be read;

                This writer is grateful to ANY site that will publish me,

                MANY authors are published by what some have labeled a "hate site"

                All I am asking is to be judged on MY WORDS,

                NOT on the words of authors I have never even read who happened to also be published by an Editor who is OPEN to ALL voices!

                Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. -Article 19, UDHR

                http://www.wearewideawake.org/

                •  Yeah, many authors... (8+ / 0-)

                  ...including Lyndon LaRouche and some dude who avers that Zionists control the frigging Vatican because Benedict XVI is either a Jew or a freemason.

                  "All who seek to gain from liberty something other than itself are born to be slaves." - Alexis de Tocqueville

                  by MBNYC on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:06:42 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I really, really, don't want to get into this... (6+ / 0-)

                  ...for many reasons, not least of which is a lack of interest in my part in having any comment on what you do when you aren't posting here.

                  But I will say this: a good author doesn't write just to be read.  A good author writes to communicate with other people.  And it would seem to me that your willingness to engage with people at a forum where those other voices are welcomed and embraced leads many people to refuse to hear what you have to say.

                  Whether that is the right or wrong choice on their part is a separate matter from whether or not your posting at all sites which will have your writing helps you reach more readers, or prevents you from having more readers.  Again, in my humble opinion.

                  The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

                  by Jay Elias on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:09:26 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Sounds familiar.... (5+ / 0-)

                    RealityBites's Circumcision Monologues come immediately to mind.  And no, I did not mean that in snark at all.  RB was looking for a dialogue/audience in the wrong place.  

                    Daily Kos is not all things to all people.  No one should expect it to be.

                    •  Is RB a thing of the past? (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      npbeachfun, GoldnI

                      That's news to me.

                      The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

                      by Jay Elias on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:17:33 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  BTW.... (7+ / 0-)

                      ...I don't think the analogy is quite apt.  Unlike RB, this issue is an important one that is appropriate for this forum.  The problems are in presentation, and in (perhaps) a lack of awareness about the minefield that this issue is in the American political culture.

                      I think it is difficult to say that Ms. Fleming shares the views of any of the nutters at the People's Voice.  I think she may not fully understand why that is such a big deal to so many people, and why it, rather than the substance of what she talks about, is the focus of the comments.  And I think that she may be having her first encounter with the back and forth of an internet forum with the comments to her diaries here.

                      And I also think that she has stepped into a dialogue in the I/P diaries here that is so poisoned that she's being pulled about and used as a cudgel for the two sides against each other, instead of anyone talking to her and helping her understand how to improve her efforts at communicating with the community here.

                      The saddest thing to me is that I don't even think she needs to be here; at this point, everyone who wants is just fighting about her, not with her.

                      The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

                      by Jay Elias on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:28:08 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  From my perspective, (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        MBNYC

                        Keep her around.  It's been made clear that there will always be a minimum of two International Solidarity Movement propagandists posting once-daily diaries..  given that we don't have two "Greater Land of Israel" types posting once-daily diaries, it seems unfair to only represent one extremist end of the spectrum.

                        Of course when the representative of that end refuses to disavow racism about 20 times a day, it does wonders for her credibility.  So I say keep her around, she's better than whoever will replace her because she at least makes her biases clear.

                        •  I think it is important to say... (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          londonbear

                          ...that the argument against the ISM that I would use is that there are better alternatives which will do more to help achieve goals in ending the occupation of the West Bank.  I don't think the converse of arguing for the ISM is arguing for "Greater Israel".

                          The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

                          by Jay Elias on Tue May 29, 2007 at 07:52:06 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  fringe to fringe? (0+ / 0-)

                            It may not be 100% accurate but we're certainly being treated to an unending parade of recycling press-releasers from one fringe..  

                          •  Of course... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            npbeachfun

                            ...because we're the political "left", and so we get the left-wing of the fringe.  Because it is 'our' fringe.

                            The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

                            by Jay Elias on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:40:40 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  There's a limit (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            MajorFlaw, MBNYC, zemblan

                            We don't smile on neo-stalinists, enviro-terrorists, lyndon larouche, etc etc

                            I think those that support the destruction of Israel and are propagandizing towards that goal fall into the same level of unacceptability.  

                          •  Who's disagreeing? (4+ / 0-)

                            The issue, it seems to me, is not that she agrees with or has advocated anything similar to LaRouche.  She cross-posts at a site which does post stuff like that.

                            She's also enough of a neophyte that she asked in these comments how to "activate the tip jar".  Which means she hasn't so much as read the dKos FAQ.  Now, while I by no means encourage people to post repeatedly without reading the FAQ or understanding how the community works, I think in this case it is ignorance, not malice, behind the cross-posting.  Heck, I've had to explain to far more cogent posters who Pat Buchanan is and why he's bad.

                            You'll find no hesitancy by me to criticize antiwar.com, International ANSWER, or the patronage by decent folks of those venues.  But in this case, it seems to me that there is no malicious intent, and that turning this issue into something where we attack the poster rather than try to help her understand the problem isn't helping matters.

                            I'd rather just tell her to read the FAQ and move on, but I'd rather coddle her along and help her understand the environment she's joining that have another giant scrum between the ideological factions of the I/P debate here.

                            The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

                            by Jay Elias on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:52:06 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  You are also judged on where you put your words (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  unfounded, MajorFlaw, MBNYC, EnderRS

                  And until you figure that out, you're never going to make any headway here.

  •  Eileen (9+ / 6-)

    A lot of the passion you obviously feel comes over in your diaries, something that those who wish to see you removed from here will attack you for. I suggest you post a "tip jar" immediately after posting diaries so that the time of posting can be properly recorded. You seem to have made some edits which updates the time of the diary so it is not immediately apparent how little time those attacking you have spent "reading" before launching their attacks.

    I consider unreasoned attacks such as those by the most vociferous against you, with their pre-prepared links to discredit you, to be one of the more pernicious aspects of the GIYUS/AIPAC stormtroopers and should be regarded as trolling and noted appropriately. Apparently they have a new sock puppet to uprate themselves with.

    That's an entirely valid point - MBNYC

    by londonbear on Tue May 29, 2007 at 05:47:58 AM PDT

    •  thanks for info, i have a ? (5+ / 0-)

      i am at a great disadvantage on the DK, as I am computerely deficient.

      How do i find and activate the "TIP JAR"???

      •  This I agree with... (8+ / 0-)

        ...if everyone who was at one point or another accused of being a GIYUS operative or sent by he who must not be named or a sockpuppet was, then there would be no one left at dKos but me and a bunch of FBI agents pretending to be 14 year old girls looking for some older gentleman to let them into their liquor cabinet.

        The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

        by Jay Elias on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:01:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  what would you call someone (8+ / 0-)

        who has ONLY posted in i/p diaries to defend israel? would you say that person has electing democrats in mind or perhaps is only here to protect israel from criticism?

        50 foot jesus take me home

        by howardx on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:51:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Howard, (8+ / 0-)

          please tell me you realize the word "stormtroopers" has certain connotations.  I would think just about every American WWII vet would find it quite offensive, in any setting.

          "I hate Illinois Nazis" - Jake

          by dfb1968 on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:57:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Depends.. (0+ / 0-)

          do tghey participate in other diaries as well?

          Equating a terrorist leader with Moses is unacceptable.

          by Pumpkinlove on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:57:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zemblan

          Is there any regular poster in the I/P diaries who is not critical of the occupation? Part of the mess here is that the level of agreement on this point is ignored.

          People are so busy making their points that they miss the opportunities to find areas of agreement. Some of the criticism of Israel is so over-the-top or inflammatory that it produces defensive antagonism where agreement was actually possible.

          You ask:

          would you say that person has electing democrats in mind...?

          and this is an important question. Neither criticism nor defense of Israel has much to do with electing Democrats. It is a policy issue that will only be relevant once Democrats control foreign policy.

          However, I/P is a serious wedge issue for Democrats. The acrimonious debate here divides people who would otherwise be focused on working together to elect Democrats. I have sometimes wondered whether some of the more extreme posters aren't here just to sow dissension for the benefit of the opposition.

          •  While I wouldn't go so far as to suggest (4+ / 0-)

            that some of the "pro-P" posters are actually agents provocateur for the Republicans, and speaking as someone who does post on other topics, I think that working on behalf of a sensible and electorally viable foreign policy does contribute to this site's purpose of electing Democrats. If any negative implication lurks in howardx's question, I, therefore, would reject it.

            Al Gore should be president.

            by another American on Tue May 29, 2007 at 07:22:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  BTW, a A, (4+ / 0-)

              as someone who consistently appreciates your efforts to focus on the possibility of achieving a viable two-state solution with American support, I would like to suggest that there are some posters who are "pro-P" and others who are simply "anti-I".

              Believing, as I do, that realistic Palestinians and Israelis can recognize that they have much in common and very little to gain by prolonging the conflict, I think it is possible to be both "pro-P" and "pro-I" at the same time. However, not every "anti-I" post is "pro-P" (e.g., seating on Jerusalem buses). Similarly, not every sentiment that is "Pro-P" is necessarily "anti-I" (although I find few such sentiments expressed here) because there are more dimensions to the Palestinians than the conflict with Israel.

              So if there have been agents provocateurs here (and if there have, I don't think they lasted long), I think they were more likely "anti-I" than "pro-P".

              In terms of developing "a sensible and electorally viable foreign policy", I certainly wish everyone here would unite behind criticism of the do-nothing Bush/Cheney/Rice approach to neglect of diplomacy, and express support for the more positive Democratic approach exemplified by Carter and Clinton.

              In the same context, people need to keep in mind the views of the American electorate, which is highly supportive of Israel's security as a Jewish state. While the 2004 Democratic Party Platform is consistent with that view, it also supports "the creation of a democratic Palestinian state dedicated to living in peace and security side by side with the Jewish State of Israel".

              •  Define pro-Palestinian/pro-Israel. (7+ / 0-)

                Define anti-Palestinian/anti-Israel.

                The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                by callmecassandra on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:31:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  pro-P vs anti-I (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Cecrops Tangaroa, MajorFlaw, blueness

                  pro-P posters are primarily concerned with legitimate humanitarian needs of Palestinians.

                  anti-I posters are primarily concerned with the elimination of Israel as a state, and may find it very useful to channel outrage over the humanitarian situation in the territories to persuade progressives.

                  •  Could you define them all please. (6+ / 0-)

                    Pro-Palestinian
                    Pro-Israel
                    anti-Palestinian
                    anti-Israel

                    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                    by callmecassandra on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:48:17 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Ok, did two already (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Cecrops Tangaroa, blueness

                      and this is just according to me..

                      But I'd say pro-Israel are those who support the continued existence of Israel and can have quite a bit of common cause with the pro-P types while recognizing security concerns.

                      and anti-P, which I have yet to see on this site BTW, would be those who are arguing for a greater land of Israel and in favor of settlements, etc.

                      •  pro/anti (3+ / 0-)

                        There is no such thing as pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel when their goals are one and the same.

                        Posters who are primarily concerned with legitimate humanitarian needs of Palestinians and those who support the continued existence of Israel.

                        Are you suggesting that 'pro-I' aren't concerned with Palestinians' humanitarian needs? (Oh and there's no need to place "legitimate" in front of humanitarian is there?) And are you suggesting that that 'pro-P' don't want the continued existence of Israel or ignores security concerns of Israel?

                        (Unless you mean by existence as Israel the Jewish State and that's something else altogether.)

                        As for anti-Israel and anti-Palestinians, they are more often than not bigots and racists.  The remainder being just plain ignorant. So I'd like to know who you consider racists and bigots, iow, the 'anti-Israel' posters.

                        and anti-P, which I have yet to see on this site BTW

                        Only someone heavily biased could ever make this kind of comment.Yes, we do have anti-Palestinians on board. By the way.

                        sandbox and his recommenders are anti-Palestine. They support pushing Palestinians into Jordan and Egypt, effectively against the creation of Palestine or its existence.  The old "send the Blacks back to Africa" argument if they don't like it in America.

                        And from now on, I intend to troll-rate these posts as racist.

                        The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                        by callmecassandra on Tue May 29, 2007 at 09:35:45 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  One more thing. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        anonymousredvest18, npbeachfun

                        In case you didn't notice, your partners-in-arms don't dare address this.

                        They know better...

                        The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                        by callmecassandra on Tue May 29, 2007 at 09:46:41 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

              •  I thoroughly agree with you. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MajorFlaw, word is bond

                My diary Where I'm coming from, reproducing a speech I gave in the late 1980s, attempts to make the same point.

                Indeed, I agree with Sari Nusseibeh that, in an important sense, Israel and Palestine have a strong mutual strategic interest.

                And, I hesitated, as I often do, over whether and how collectivities of participants in I-P discussions. That's one reason I employed quotation marks. On other occasions, I've used the less than elegan "people generally regarded as". In the current context, I hoped my meaning would be clear.

                Al Gore should be president.

                by another American on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:43:45 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Well...we might get those millions of (5+ / 0-)

            muslim votes that went to Bush last time simply because they thought Bush might be more even handed.

            "Unilateralism"...we take what we want, and leave you the rest. -7.00, -2.92

            by mattes on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:16:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Should we then question the motives (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pumpkinlove, MBNYC, blueness, zemblan

          of those who solely post in I/P diaries to take the Palestinian side? And if so, do we start screamign something along the lines of GIYUS/AIP STORMTROOPER!!!!11

          •  yes (9+ / 0-)

            if people are here ONLY to defend an I/P position then they should be questioned

            50 foot jesus take me home

            by howardx on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:15:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Like the diarist? (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cecrops Tangaroa, MajorFlaw, MBNYC

              And very similar diarists that preceded her and will undoubtedly follow once she links to that despicable hate site enough times to get banned for it?

              •  THIS diarist IS being questioned. (9+ / 0-)

                n/t

                50 foot jesus take me home

                by howardx on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:41:53 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I don't understand (3+ / 0-)

                why linking to a "hate site" should be grounds for banning. It seems to me that you are a bit too eager to get people here banned, habibi.
                Now,

                • If I wanted to discuss, for example, the issue of holocaust denial (the different arguments and why their side has no point) and to show the views of the deniers I linked to a Holocaust denial site, I would assume you wouldn't consider that grounds for banning, right? Obviously the example is not representative, my point is that linking to a "hate site" is not per se reason for a ban.
                • Obviously you and eileen disagree. You think that one should be held accountable for where one decides to present one's writings. She thinks it is irrelevant and that one should be held accountable merely for one's writings themselves.
                • Ok, beseder, you disagree, and it's not an irrelevant discussion to have. In fact, it would be interesting if you or eileen diaried about this and discussed it thoughtfully. However, since there is no official doctrine on this in DK that I'm aware of, you have no right whatsoever, IMHO, to continue highjacking Eileen's diaries. You made your point, we've all got it, it is reasonable; now please knock it off and allow us to continue debating on the conflict.

                Thank you.

                Shalom

                "There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people." Howard Zinn

                by Chilean Jew on Tue May 29, 2007 at 09:21:53 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  linking approvingly, I should have said (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MajorFlaw, MBNYC, zemblan

                  And I didn't say I thought it was or should be bannable, just that anybody who linked to a hate site enough times in a row (in diaries posted at the maximum daily rate) will probably wind up being banned.

                  •  If it were only linking to a hate site (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    unfounded, MBNYC

                    then there'd be fury, but not this much fury.

                    Posting and advertising on a hate site is a different deal, and that, not linking, is what I and others have enormous difficulty accepting from a self-described peace-seeker.

                  •  Let's taking banning off the table. (0+ / 0-)

                    What reasonably are we to make of Eileen Fleming's continued posting at a website that features (what we all I take it agree is) despicable, hate-filled material?

                    Eileen says we should make nothing of it. She simply takes her readers where she finds them. Nor, apparently, is she concerned that accepting (what she tells us is) free advertising on the site may suggest that she endorses the site in some meaningful way.

                    • We could say that she has a good heart and an empty head. But while this analysis acquits her of any ill-will, it does so at the cost of destroying her credibility.

                    • We could say that she has made a calculated decision that it is more important to have the opportunity to reach out to people who otherwise might not read her than it is to keep her skirts clean of the site's filth. In principle, I suppose, reasonable people could agree or disagree with such a judgment. But if this is Eileen's calculation, then, at a minimum I suggest, she owes us a clear explanation coupled with a personal disavowal of any sympathy for the site's hate-mongers and an end to the advertising.

                    • We could say that Eileen simply is insensitive to, or unaware of, the hurtful and hateful nature of other material appearing on the site. Again, while this may acquit her of ill-will, the price is a conclusion that her judgment in these matters is unreliable.

                    I'm open to other, reasonable explanations. At present, I waiver between the first and third.

                    Al Gore should be president.

                    by another American on Tue May 29, 2007 at 10:22:02 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  option two (4+ / 0-)

                      But if this is Eileen's calculation, then, at a minimum I suggest, she owes us a clear explanation coupled with a personal disavowal of any sympathy for the site's hate-mongers and an end to the advertising.

                      I don't think she'd owe it to just us. I think she owes it to the hate site -- a clear and detailed and substantial explanation, posted there, pointing out and condemning specific examples of the site's antisemitism. And the detail is important -- a one-liner twittering "oh, I believe in love, not hate" won't cut it.

                      Anything short of that and she's pulling an Arafat, saying one thing to one side in all deep sincerity and its opposite to the other, again with all deep sincerity.

                    •  AA again (3+ / 0-)

                      I think what you say is reasonable and I think it is number 2. A couple of things though,

                      • We should remember that the diarists are not being put on trial here, nor are they running for public office. I would expect that even though you may not grant her great credibility, you would still be able to discuss the issues and arguments she is respectfully presenting about the conflict without making reference every single time to the discussed asociation to the hate site.
                      • Regardless of the consensus or personal opinions on this issue, I would still urge all members to avoid high-jacking Eileen's diaries, again making reference to this issue. We all know about this and there is no need to remind us time and time again. I would also urge all members to condemn and Troll rate this practice if utilized in a repetitive manner.
                      • I support AA in recommending Eileen to present us with an explanation on whether she agrees or not with the positions presented on the site (if the advertizing is free I don't see a reason to suggest its termination) in order to improve her credibility among the members of the community. However, it is ultimately her choice whether to do so or not and if she is not interested I would also urge members to stop making such a request.

                      Shalom

                      "There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people." Howard Zinn

                      by Chilean Jew on Tue May 29, 2007 at 11:54:01 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  A Clear Explanation (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        anonymousredvest18, npbeachfun

                        Until being attacked @ the DK, I had no clue that the Peoples Voice was considered a "hate site."

                        I have NEVER even read a Lyndon Larouche, David Duke, or an Ann Coulter article. I just do not read anyone who espouses hate and discord.

                        Many writers published by PV are concerned and engaged citizens; we are NOT hate mongers.

                        I am also bewildered at the knee jerk reactions of some DK readers, who do NOT even read my diary but attack it without any factual basis and do not see the irony in questioning my credibilty!

                        A writers credibilty is based on what the writer actually writes.

                        Attackers who attack without reading the post have NO credibilty at all, but do they have eyes to see that irony?

                        Again, I am grateful for any opportunity any editor gives me by publishing me for,

                        The only way to change hearts and minds is through education;

                        Writers also write to educate.

                        That is why I am at the DK, and when it stops being fun, i will go away.

                        e
                        http://www.wearewideawake.org/

                •  She doesn't just link there. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MajorFlaw, Pumpkinlove, MBNYC

                  She posts there and she advertises there, in full knowledge that it's a hate site.

                  That changes the case considerably.

                  •  I'd kinda like to know whether Ms. Fleming's (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MBNYC

                    deal with that site includes sharing the proceeds from any sales that her ads there generate.  If she is effectively contributing to their operating expenses that would make her more than a naif.

                    •  Proceeds from ADS (0+ / 0-)

                      My ad says:

                      Eileen Fleming
                      Daily Commentator, Senior Correspondent and Editor of WeAreWideAwake.org
                      Producer of "30 Minutes with Vanunu"

                      The "30 Minutes with Vanunu" is a fundraising vehicle for his Defense Fund.

                      WAWA/wearewideawake is a Pro-Bono Public Service discourse confronting media and governments that shield the whole truth. We who are wide awake are compelled by the "fierce urgency of Now"[Rev MLK] to raise awareness and promote the human dialogue about many of the crucial issues of our day: the state of our Union and in protection of democracy, what life is like for Christians in Israel Palestine in the 21st Century, nuclear weapons, the environment, science, medicine, theology and spirituality.

                      ALL PROCEEDS from my first book, KEEP HOPE ALIVE are donated to the 501 3-c Olive Trees Foundation for Peace which raises awareness and funds to replace the over one million trees The Wall has destroyed, So far, over 31,000 trees have been rooted in Israel Palestine.

                      Proceeds for my MEMOIRS in OPT will be donated to the individuals and organizations I wrote about.

                      So, I am NOT in this to make $$$ for eileen, but to educate Americans for I have hope compassion will follow.

                      e
                      http://www.wearewideawake.org/

                      •  That wasn't my question. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        MBNYC

                        I accept your representation that all your proceeds from any sales generated from those ads are donated.  Does the site take a commission/cut from the gross revenue or do they provide the ad space as a "favor" to you with no benefit to them?

                        •  Even if they don't make a dime (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          MajorFlaw, MBNYC

                          ... the presence of people like Eileen on their site help them portray themselves as something other than a hate site. Look, they say, sure we post David Irving, sure we post four-star Jew-bashing rants, but we also post Eileen Fleming, so don't you dare call us a hate site.

                          Now, I can't imagine anyone dumb enough to actually buy that Eileen's presense somehow makes the site not an antisemitic cesspit, but it's enough for the wink wink crowd to wink wink -- antisemites? us? Heaven forfend, wink wink!

    •  Um... (6+ / 0-)

      ...two points: first, can you give some examples of the GIYUS/AIPAC stormtroopers you refer to, and two, WTF is up with you quoting me in your sig line? I mean, seriously, WTF?

      Dude, she posts and advertises on a frigging hate site.  Here's a recent article there by Lyndon LaRouche. Scroll down until you see the ad.

      What's acceptable about that in your view?

      "All who seek to gain from liberty something other than itself are born to be slaves." - Alexis de Tocqueville

      by MBNYC on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:04:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  another ? londonbear (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hypersphere01

      I really am limited here, you wrote:

      the GIYUS/AIPAC stormtroopers and should be regarded as trolling and noted appropriately. Apparently they have a new sock puppet to uprate themselves with.

      Do you mean there is an actual group-dare i mention the "C" word??? A conspiracy of trolls who cannot bear the light of truth, so spend their days on high alert anticipating attacking anyone who dares tell the truth about OPT?

      •  Not necessarily (8+ / 0-)

        But it is fairly obvious that there are is a group of attackers who will pounce on any diary critical of Israel. They uprate each other's posts to maintain their TU ratings, even on the most inane comments and start discussions among themselves about the author of a diary they dislike.

        In doing so, they often ignore discussion that takes place in Israel itself, including in the press. I think that it is obvious from the speed of the responses and attacks on your diaries that you are in their spotlight.

        That's an entirely valid point - MBNYC

        by londonbear on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:11:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  That's precisely (12+ / 0-)

        ...what Londonbear is saying, yes. However, the preferred term is 'cabal', if you don't mind. Me, I'm on loan from the gay mafia, taking a break from destroying marriage, discrediting Christianity and instituting the gay agenda.

        Oh dear, I fear I've already said too much.

        "All who seek to gain from liberty something other than itself are born to be slaves." - Alexis de Tocqueville

        by MBNYC on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:13:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  that's two demerits, MBNYC (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bouwerie Boy, MajorFlaw, MBNYC, GoldnI, jhritz

          One more demerit and you lose the use of the Zionist Conspiracy DKos Strike Team yacht until October.

        •  Admission? (6+ / 0-)

          Posts like this tend to indicate some form of co-operation:

          #

          • [new] The autoban finally kicked in. (0 / 0)

          Just took a little concerted effort . . .

          by MajorFlaw on Tue May 29, 2007 at 01:32:04 PM GMT

          [ Parent | Reply to This |Recommend Troll ]

          Who, may one ask, were acting in concert?

          That's an entirely valid point - MBNYC

          by londonbear on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:40:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Everything regarding RB was right out in (6+ / 0-)

            the open.  Go back and read some of the discussions.  If you have any evidence that people were cooperating sub rosa there or here please produce it.  If not, well figure it out.

            •  I am not interested (6+ / 0-)

              in reading through those rather dreary and repetitive diaries and the repetition of the attacks however is that confirmation that you openly conspired with others to use the troll rating system to remove a poster, regardless of the contents of his posts?

              That's an entirely valid point - MBNYC

              by londonbear on Tue May 29, 2007 at 07:02:34 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It was done (5+ / 0-)

                by order of Kestrel9000. He's running the sitewide conspiracy, I believe. Not sure what role Bouwerie Boy plays, though he seems to be pretty high up in the hierarchy.

                "All who seek to gain from liberty something other than itself are born to be slaves." - Alexis de Tocqueville

                by MBNYC on Tue May 29, 2007 at 07:13:20 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah... (9+ / 0-)

                They do that a lot...

                They have fun with it. A lynch mob, kinda like this one here, only on much, much larger scale with the added bang of admins.

                The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                by callmecassandra on Tue May 29, 2007 at 07:17:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  the mob (6+ / 0-)

                  that autobanned RB off the site bears no resemblance to the I-type "lynch mob" that P-type people in these diaries complain of. I think it's quite instructive that Kos himself broke a 16-month hiatus in recommending comments on his own site to recommend this comment by dhonig, in which it was noted that while noxious "pro-I" users have been subjected to the autoban, the same was not true of the uber-troll shergald and his various zombies and sockpuppets. The impotence of any so-called "I" "lynch mob" on this site is further demonstrated by the fact that that such persons as fugue and nyberg are still very much here, merrily posting away.

                  •  yes, the mob (4+ / 0-)

                    Stalking, harassing, attacking, hijacking, attaching guilt by association from other people's comments on other people's sites, when the bulk of comments are absolutely worthless except to incite a response that is trollable and so forth and so on and it's done by the same group of people over and over again, then what would you call it?

                    That you cite kos' uprate of dhoing's comment means nothing to me. You know that. Or should...

                    And that this comment comes from a participant who doesn't think twice about suggesting that dkos is anti-semitic with those pathetic call-out diaries mean even less to me.

                    The impotence of any so-called "I" "lynch mob" on this site is further demonstrated by the fact that that such persons as fugue and nyberg are still very much here, merrily posting away.

                    In what way is this relevant? Impotence doesn't have anything to do with this. The existence of one is real.

                    As for fugue and nyberg, I guess we share the same problem. Can't seem to get rid of the two racists - pumpkin and jhurst - who've dodged banning all this time.

                    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                    by callmecassandra on Tue May 29, 2007 at 12:30:03 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  cassandra: (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      sofia, MBNYC, callmecassandra

                      Stalking, harassing, attacking, hijacking, attaching guilt by association from other people's comments on other people's sites, when the bulk of comments are absolutely worthless except to incite a response that is trollable and so forth and so on and it's done by the same group of people over and over again, then what would you call it?

                      I'd call it something that both "I" and "P" posters do, and I, like you, wish it would stop. I believe that Hunter being forced to pay incessant attention to the eternal recurrence of the zombies of shergald inaugurated the admins' increased (and irritated) attention to I/P, but I believe that it is what you cite here that has, in large part, caused the admins to consider washing their hands of the entire topic.

                      That you cite kos' uprate of dhoing's comment means nothing to me. You know that. Or should...

                      I referenced that comment because I thought it was instructive that kos himself had noted that noxious "P" posters do not leave this site via the autoban, as noxious "I" posters have done. You can certainly deride my opinion as biased, but in my time here I cannot recall a single noxious "P" poster who has left this place via autoban . . .while noxious "I" posters have. In my no-doubt biased view, this is because of persistent uprating, to an extent that not even the most zealous "I" posters have engaged in. The reference to nyberg and fugue was that even people who "I" posters believe to be flaming anti-semites have not been autobanned. Why? First, unlike the numbskull noxious "I" people, they know how to game the site. But second, they may, at least much of the time, rely on upraters.

                      Also, cassandra-sometimes-with-a-temper, I hope you'll be careful here. I think what finally tipped the scales for the banning of tlh lib was when he posted that he had "no respect" for this site. I know you are supremely angry with the admins' decision on the banning of the trio, but please do not allow that anger to encourage you to start trash-talking kos and his blog. I don't want to see some admin in a fit of pique decide to pull your plug. I'm still waiting and depending on those diaries from you . . . . ; )

                      And that this comment comes from a participant who doesn't think twice about suggesting that dkos is anti-semitic with those pathetic call-out diaries mean even less to me.

                      I personally do not think that this site is anti-semitic. I personally believe that there have been anti-semitic remarks posted here. And I personally believe that there are anti-semites on this site; but, to me, they are very, very few. Of a number not at all bad for a place with over 120,000 members.

                      Can't seem to get rid of the two racists--pumpkin and jhurst--who've dodged banning all this time.

                      I respect your opinion, as you know, and am completely ready to believe your charge. I ask only that you please link to posts that you believe reveal these people as racists.

                      Responding to your post below:

                      The mob was effective with umkahlil and sabbah...

                      I do not know that "the mob" was instrumental in their banning. It could have come from Hunter alone, from mostly pressure put on him by the "mob," or by a combination of the two. There's really no way of telling. But, again, my original point was that the alleged "I" "lynch mob" is impotent when it comes to running people out of here via autoban. Those people did not go via autoban. I know that, to you, on a "side" that feels besieged, it doesn't matter worth a damn how your compatriots are run off. You still feel under attack. I understand. I'd like somehow some way for this topic to survive here, and for no one to feel under attack, but that's never going to happen so long as these diaries degenerate into precisely what has happened in this subthread: a charge, without evidence, that one side or the other is posting at the direction of some other, more or less nefarious, power, rather than from the heart.

                      Be well.  

                      •  No, (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        anonymousredvest18, blueness

                        You can certainly deride my opinion as biased

                        I don't deride your opinion, nor your bias. And that you acknowledge it helps me to understand your point of view. And of course, I'm biased as well.

                        I'm not Arab. Let's start with that.

                        What's disappointing is seeing how some, a minority for sure, who seem to forget racial sensitivity when it comes to Arabs. And a few within these 'some' go even further than that into racism and bigotry. It's difficult to reconcile. I just don't get it. And it pisses me off...

                        Red Tulips for instance. Spoke of her African American friend a lot on her blog. And I just couldn't get how she could be so hateful to Arabs.

                        First, unlike the numbskull noxious "I" people, they know how to game the site. But second, they may, at least much of the time, rely on upraters.

                        The upraters. Being an ace in this gaming isn't limited to "P". And frankly, it's going to take some time to troll-rate your own so to speak. But the least we can do is not uprate something we know should be troll-rated. Chilean Jew made such a point about uprating personal attacks no matter who they are against. I initially uprated such a post after it was troll-rated, until Chilean made that point. Then I removed it. I didn't troll-rate. But I removed the uprate. Can we begin here? I'm not perfect by the way, so call me on it...

                        I think what finally tipped the scales for the banning of tlh lib was when he posted that he had "no respect" for this site. I know you are supremely angry with the admins' decision on the banning of the trio, but please do not allow that anger to encourage you to start trash-talking kos and his blog.

                        Heh. No. If I ever get to the point when I feel like trashing the site, no one will have to ban me. I'll leave.

                        But my point, though harshly stated, was that I don't know kos. I don't interact with him. I don't read his diaries or his posts. (And that goes for the admins most times. I don't often read their works either. Hunter was probably the first admin I'd engaged.) So kos' opinions wouldn't, as a matter of fact, have much value to me. Iow, he's another poster. Nothing good. Nothing bad. Nothing right. Nothing wrong.

                        As for the anti-semiticism on this site, I agree with you of course about the amount. dhoing doesn't know all the people s/he's accusing. In spite and anger, s/he posts a diary (or two) that cuts a knife in the hearts of every person who has done all they could to bring about racial equality. And that's a lot of damn people. This ain't helping. And it's not helpful when people agree with him/her when they should know better, when they DO know better, just so they can feel righteous, just to avoid confrontation on an issue that's not going to get any easier to discuss as long as shit like this is pulled and accepted...

                        but that's never going to happen so long as these diaries degenerate into precisely what has happened in this subthread: a charge, without evidence, that one side or the other is posting at the direction of some other, more or less nefarious, power, rather than from the heart.

                        Although I do believe that people are sent here to disrupt (I mean if Republicans and Greens do it, why wouldn't any other groups) I do agree that such comments are disruptive, unproductive and inevitably paints a broad brush on everyone's motives. Wouldn't even matter if there was evidence. The end result would be the same. I say dismember the 'points' and 'talking points' and call it a day...

                        Anyhoo, thank you for taking the time and not snapping my ass up like I deserved.

                        The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                        by callmecassandra on Tue May 29, 2007 at 05:46:44 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  I forgot... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    anonymousredvest18, npbeachfun

                    The mob was effective with umkahlil and sabbah...

                    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world She didn't exist.

                    by callmecassandra on Tue May 29, 2007 at 01:19:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  LB (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MBNYC, GoldnI, jhritz

            The only connection between I/P and the circumcision diaries is Judaism.  I am hoping you are notsuggesting a Jewosh conspiracy.

            Equating a terrorist leader with Moses is unacceptable.

            by Pumpkinlove on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:50:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  unsupported and unnecessarily inflamatory... (10+ / 0-)

      Please provide evidence that the members you refer to are in any way related to GIYUS/AIPAC...

      "There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people." Howard Zinn

      by Chilean Jew on Tue May 29, 2007 at 08:26:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Someday, someone will write an I/P diary (7+ / 0-)

    that I will read, consider thoughtfully and comment happily in.  This is not that diary.  I am interested in solutions.  I am interested in applying pressure to all the various forces that fuel the conflict - including, but not limited to, the United States.

    •  well then Fabian, there is HOPE (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TheMomCat, kkjohnson, hypersphere01

      Book Review for My First Book, KEEP HOPE ALIVE

      Book Reviewer from http://midwestbookreview.com

      "At first I thought this had something to do with the famous line of Jessie Jackson.  I'm delighted to say it is much much more. The author shows that there are many people from all over the world who are moving in the right direction to establish peace in the Middle East. The organization Olive Trees Foundation for Peace/OTFFP is Arabs, Jews, and Christians who have formed a non profit non political group who have one goal; to have Israelis and Palestinians live side by side in peace. These are people from all walks of life who are committed to changing the area into a peaceful region. Social movements like this grow until finally government jumps on-board. This is so counter to the policies of the Bush administration.  As dialogue continues to grow on this subject government will be forced to rethink its approach to the region. This is a book that should be read by anyone does not believe there can be peace in the Middle East. It should also be included in schools and on the college level to help focus on how the area can move toward peace."-Gary Roen

      http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/3/prweb514837.htm

      Denver, CO (PRWEB) March 29, 2007 -- American civilian journalist/blogger, Eileen Fleming has journeyed four times to Israel Palestine since June 2005. Compelled by her curiosity to seek the truth, impelled by her faith as a progressive Christian and propelled by her desire to pursue peace her Memoirs will enlighten, encourage and challenge readers.

      The events of 9/11 were the catalyst for this middle aged Physicians wife to leave hearth and home four times to go-witness-and report about life in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Eileen has met with democratically elected members of Hamas and residents of Bethlehem's nearly sixty year old refugee camps. She has stood up with nonviolent demonstrators against The Wall in Bil'in and listened to the cries of a mother whose children have been imprisoned by The Wall in Bethlehem. She has interviewed devout Jews, Christians, Muslims, secularists, anarchists and Nobel Peace Prize nominees who all seek justice and peace in the Holy Land.

      Fleming's Memoirs will further the dialogue and debate that began with President Jimmy Carter's Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid. Controversial and enlightening, Memoirs of a Nice Irish-American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory illuminate the facts on the ground in Palestine that have gone unreported by the USA MSM.

      Eileen Fleming
      http://www.wearewideawake.org/
      ISBN:   1432702548

  •  Good advice (6+ / 0-)

    One of the folks here who befriended you gave you some good advice after long consideration of the PV issue. I hope you didn't miss it.

    I'd like to add this advice: I found it very hard to read your diary, which consists in large part of quotes that are presented in many different style - boldface, normal text in quotes, blockquotes, etc. The graphics were a barrier to comprehension.

    The convention here at Daily Kos (see the FAQ) is to use blockquoting:

    When you quote material that is not your own, please provide a link whenever possible. Also, use the blockquote tags to set off the copied material so that your writing is distinct from the material you are copying. For more on HTML tags, see the #Formatting section.

    In the same FAQ section on writing diaries, you will find an explanation about copyright issues and fair use. I don't know if this diary complies, but it seems that a previous one didn't. It sounds like you weren't banned, but your posting privileges suspended until you confirmed that you understood the copyright issues.

    •  dear word is bond (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TheMomCat, Rusty Pipes, hypersphere01

      thanks for your patience and support.

      I did miss the very excellent advice until you pointed it out.

      I am sorry i am so limited in the useage of blockquoting [a new experience for me] and pardon me for causing you or any distress as to my inadequacies regarding the technology.

      I will try again tomorrow and hope for all good.

      I have learned more today from you and others than when I began @ DK.

      I do appreciate ALL feedback that is on topic and for all the good advice.

      bye bye for awhile,
      thnx,
      e
      http://www.wearewideawake.org/

  •  Author, Reporter, or delusional self-aggrandizer? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MajorFlaw, MBNYC, jhritz

    Eileen, you repeatedly refer to yourself as a reporter and author?  Have you ever been employed by any media outlet- television, newspaper, wire service, etc.?  Have you ever sold an article, even one, to any such outlet?  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a blogger, but you have repeatedly referred to yourself as something more (and often a LOT more, see below), so I'm trying to understand the basis for it.

    Also, you refer quite often to your books.  Based upon the information I could find, your books were "published" by Outskirts Press and Author House, both vanity presses where the author pays to have a book published.  Is that accurate?  Have you ever had a book published by anybody but yourself?  Have you ever had an editorial review by anybody but yourself?

    If you want to be a blogger, welcome.  But your apparent self-financed self-delusion strips credibility not only from you, but from others saying the same things.

    Eileen's greatest hits:

    I am WAWA

    WHY NOT LOOK AT ME?

    Why do you all chase your tails,

    And refuse to face REALITY?

    CHECK ME OUT:

    I AM WAWA:

    http://www.wearewideawake.org/

    I am NOT PeoplesVoice- GET OVER IT!

    Me and Jimmy Carter (from her own press release):

    Jimmy Carter Opened the Window but Eileen Fleming Blew the Door Open

    American civilian journalist/blogger, Eileen Fleming has journeyed four times to Israel Palestine since June 2005. Compelled by her curiosity to seek the truth, impelled by her faith as a progressive Christian and propelled by her desire to pursue peace her Memoirs will enlighten, encourage and challenge readers.

    I'm a VISIONARY

    how about a VISIONARY tag?

    Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., wrote:

    "There never was an idea stated that woke men out of their stupid indifference but its originator was spoken of as a crank."

    And I AM WAKING UP BIG BROTHER; I have a link that tells me USA Government and Military are very interested in what I say:

    Scroll to end of this link for May statistics and see for yourself:

    The NEW Fourth Estate

    I am a distiller and disseminator of information.

    There is NO HOAX here!

    Violence reaps violence;

    I am sowing seeds of justice and seeking peace-

    That requires THE TRUTH;

    And we the people do NOT yet know what the truth is;

    But, The New Fourth Estate is on the job and we will continue to seek and report the facts on the ground as they happen.

    Kinda like Christians

    I am a reporter reporting my experiences in Occupied Territory;

    There are NO Card carrying Hamas- they run the gamut from militant fundamentalists to NONVIOLENT centrists;

    Kind of like many Christians in USA, don't you think?

    Jesus the Palestinian

    And JC was NEVER a Christian-but he was a social justice radical revolutionary PALESTINIAN devout Jewish Road Warrior who ROSE UP/INTIFADA and challenged the Temple Priests job security by teaching the people they didn't need ritual baths or sacrificing livestock to be OK with God-God loved them just as they were;
    sinners, diseased, outcasts, all living under OCCUPATION.

    I see the Light

    Your all's problems with me are rooted in the fact that I offer a different perspective and a new world view than the accepted Daily Kos diarists.

    I suppose you have never encountered a Christian of The Beatitudes before.

    "If enough Christians followed the gospel, they could bring any state to its knees."- Father Philip Francis Berrigan

    You have NEVER seen one like me

    You have never read one like me.

    Nobody has ever written the likes of what has come forth from me.

    Humility

    I have imagination and humility-i know myself the GOOD and the BAD- I call it as I see it, and YES, I am a visionary, and offer it in KEEP HOPE ALIVE

    Am I Gandhi, or God?

    "First the ignore you; then they ridicule you, then they attack you; that's when you win."-Gandhi

    So very grateful 2 U dhonig that you were able to move beyond the ignoring stage,
    but I use words sharper than 2-edged swords and have no need for cartoons to make my point.

    "The word of God is living and active. Sharper than a two-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him whom we must give account."- Hebrews 4:12-13

    Punch up your blogs and publications with cartoons from independent lefty artists.

    by dhonig on Tue May 29, 2007 at 10:20:42 AM PDT

    •  English must not be your first language (0+ / 0-)

      You asked:

      Eileen, you repeatedly refer to yourself as a reporter and author? Have you ever been employed by any media outlet- television, newspaper, wire service, etc.?  

      A REPORTER reports: I have been to OPT and have reported my EYE WITNESS experiences.

      An author is one who creates; an originator.

      Thus, I am a reporter and author and any English speaking third grader should be able to comprehend as much.

      Being a paid hack holds NO interest for me. I am a member of the New Fourth Estate and we do NOT take orders from Editors or paychecks from corporations or conglomerates.

      You asked:

      Have you ever had an editorial review by anybody but yourself?

      The UNSOLICITED book review is from Midwest Book Review, established in 1976 and they publish several monthly publications for community and academic library systems.

      •  You get a little pissy (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MajorFlaw, MBNYC, jhritz

        when people challenge you, don't you?

        You are neither a professional reporter nor a pubished author.  You are, at best, a delusional gadfly with resources.

        How embarrassing.

        Punch up your blogs and publications with cartoons from independent lefty artists.

        by dhonig on Tue May 29, 2007 at 12:13:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What? You trying to out pissy her? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          npbeachfun

          You have no clue as to her profession or publication status... 1) it's called Nom de Plume... 2) I know for a fact that reporters, and published authors, get pissy... especially when they are human.

          I'm not sticking up for her... the jury is still out... I just hate seeing ANYONE get smacked in the face with hot bullshit.

          "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."--George Orwell

          by JuniperLea on Tue May 29, 2007 at 12:44:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually, I did a little research (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MajorFlaw, MBNYC, jhritz, JuniperLea

            see above.  Here books, the ones she touts here so actively, are vanity press printings.  The reviews she quotes, with a single exception, are her own press releases.  She constantly refers to herself as a reporter, not in the context of "one who reports," but as a professional news person.  It is therefore perfectly reasonable to ask if she is anything more than a self-funded gadfly, particularly since she repeatedly identifies herself as author or reporter attempting to use the credentials to support her veracity.  

            Had I made the claims without checking, it would have been "hot bullshit."  (nice phrase, by the way).  but I checked first, and found out where her books were published. I didn't even bring up an even more obvious offense related to the books, but if you go to Amazon and search for her books you will find but one review, but "Dr. G.I.D."  Find it yourself and decide if the prose is familiar.

            Punch up your blogs and publications with cartoons from independent lefty artists.

            by dhonig on Tue May 29, 2007 at 12:49:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  REPORTING what NO MEDIA in the world Dares Too (0+ / 0-)

              I am the ONLY media in the world who has been following the historic FREEDOM OF SPEECH trial in the 'democracy' of Israel since it began January 2006.

              I am the ONLY reporter in the world with the thatchers to stream video of Vanunu which is UNCENSORED by Israeli Military as is required for professional/PAID media.

              Who has more credibilty;

              1. The reporter who seeks and reports truth.

              Or,

              1. Paid hacks who will not stand up to Israel's human rights abuses.

              The correct response is #1.

              "30 Minutes with Vanunu" FREELY STREAMING on WAWA:
              http://www.wearewideawake.org/

              •  finish the thought (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MajorFlaw, MBNYC, jhritz

                REPORTING what NO MEDIA in the world Dares Too

                ... on sites no progressive could call home.

              •  Eileen, are you suggesting that Robert Fisk (6+ / 0-)

                and others at The Independent,

                The Guardian

                The BBC,

                Le Monde, and

                AFP,

                to name just a few media in the world, do not dare report these subjects?

                If so, I would appreciate learning your reasons.

                If not, then I suggest you withdraw your claim.

                Al Gore should be president.

                by another American on Tue May 29, 2007 at 02:43:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Have ANY of them REPORTED This??? (0+ / 0-)

                  I stand by MY WORDS: I am the ONLY media with the thatchers to REPORT:

                  The New Fourth Estate and Vanunu

                  Annually, for the last twenty years Mordechai Vanunu has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. This year, Vanunu has been nominated by Bishop Desmond Tutu, who received the Nobel Prize in 1984, for his courageous and fearless opposition against the South African apartheid system.

                  On April 30, 2007 , in the Jerusalem Magistrate's Court, Mordechai Vanunu was convicted on 14 [out of 21] counts of violating a court order prohibiting him from speaking to foreign journalists in 2004.

                  In 2004, "60 Minutes" [in Australia, NOT CBS] and Amy Goodman of DemocracyNow! both interviewed Vanunu.

                  Neither has yet to do a follow up, but The New Fourth Estate; civilian journalists/bloggers have.

                  Vanunu was also convicted for traveling the four miles from Jerusalem to Bethlehem when he hoped to attend Christmas Eve mass at the Church of the Nativity, his first Christmas after being released from 18 years in jail [most of it in solitary] on April 21, 2004.

                  Instead of Christmas Mass, Vanunu spent the night in jail and charged with attempting to flee Israel. Vanunu also has no passport and has been held under the draconian 1945 British Mandate State of Emergency Regulations, which forbids him from leaving Israel and speaking to media and foreigners, these last three years since his release.

                  Following the verdict, Vanunu pointed out, "Perhaps I should turn to the Queen or Tony Blair for justice...All that I want is to be free, to leave the country." http://www.serve.com/...

                  Israel's statehood was contingent upon its upholding of the UN UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS.

                  Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. -Article 19 UDHR

                  Vanunu's historic freedom of speech trial began on January 25, 2006 and concluded on February 2, 2007. The court brought 21 charges against him for giving interviews to foreign media in 2004: but the professional paid media has been missing in action during this historic trial.

                  Back in 1986, when Vanunu was only a low tech worker in Israel's WMD facility, he easily obtained the keys to the restricted areas after they had been carelessly left in the shower room. Vanunu was able to shoot two rolls of film in the underground WMD facility without detection that proved to the world that Israel was nuclear in 1986.

                  Instead of Israel being grateful for the alert to the inadequate security in the nuclear reactor facility, they kidnap and lock Vanunu up for 18 years, most all of it in solitary. Vanunu has not set foot into the Dimona in 21 years and International Inspectors never have.

                  On April 21, 2004, Vanunu was released.

                  But, NOT free.

                  He has lived under the draconian 1945 British Mandate State of Emergency Regulations, which forbids him from leaving Israel and speaking to media and foreigners.

                  I met Vanunu for the first time in June 2005, and I learned about his childhood and why and how he became a Christian just a few weeks before being clubbed, drugged and kidnapped by the Mossad then undergoing a closed door trial.

                  In March 2006, Vanunu told me,"This administration tells me I am not allowed to speak to foreigners, the Media, and the world. But I do because that is how I prove my true humanity to the world."

                  Although 'free' for the last three years, "Vanunu has suffered a spate of verbal attacks and threats as a result of his activism from Zionists, both Jewish and Christian. However, given the fact that Israel's nuclear capability is no longer a secret, he feels that the attacks are personal in nature and tied to the fact that he "abandoned the tribe" by converting to Christianity."
                  http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/...

                  In May 2006, Vanunu informed American Free Press correspondent, Mark Glenn, "that this was something that was a common theme during his prison term, where he would receive regular visits from Shin Bet and Mossad agents who would dangle the bait of parole in front of him if he would just renounce his conversion and "return to the fold." His comments concerning his conversion reveal why "interested parties" might engage in a program of vindictiveness against him:

                  "In the same way that Jesus criticized Judaism 2,000 years ago, I was unwilling to accept what they teach. The Jews believe that there is only one Chosen People of God and preach their superiority. I decided that after 2,000 years these ideas were nonsense. There are 6 billion people around the world, all equal, all part of the human race. There is no such thing as a super race.

                  "We should all respect and love each other, and that was the beginning of my rejecting Judaism and accepting the teachings of Jesus Christ and of accepting humanity. Those who teach Judaism control and ruin the lives of those under them, telling them what they must do every hour of every day, but at the same time they do not teach them to respect non-Jews as human beings. This is Judaism, a collection of primitive traditions thousands of years old that has not changed."

                  He added that "the Jews came to Palestine in the name of their god and took this land and expelled the people and gave them hard, cruel, barbaric lives for the last 60 years. This way of thinking, this faith, cannot exist within this new age, and it was this that also led me to expose Israel's nuclear secrets." http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/...

                  In June 2005 and March 2006, Vanunu informed this civilian journalist:

                  "The Shen Beet, you know like the FBI and the Mossad, like your CIA were watching me constantly. They tortured me by keeping a light on in my cell constantly for two years. They told me it was because they were afraid I would commit suicide, and the oppressive camera was for my safety. They recruited the guards and other prisoners to irritate me. They would deprive me of sleep by making loud noises near my cell all night long.

                  "The Israelis have 200 atomic weapons and they accuse the Palestinians and Muslims of terrorism. The Dimona is 46 years old; reactors last 25 to 30 years. The Dimona has never been inspected and Israel has never signed the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty but all the Arab states have."

                  "Twenty years ago when I worked there they only produced when the air was blowing towards Jordan ten miles away. No one knows what is happening now. The world needs to wake up and see the real terrorism is the occupation and the Palestinians have lived under that terror regime for 40 years.

                  "It's very sad that Hillary Clinton went to the Jewish Wailing Wall and forgot the real crying wall is the Palestinian wall; the apartheid wall, the wall is not for defense, but to keep this conflict permanent.

                  "Israel is only a democracy if you are a Jew."
                  On May 13th Vanunu learned that all the restrictions against him will continue another year.

                  On July 25, 2007 he will learn how much more time he will spend behind bars for speaking his mind in a Mid East 'Democracy'.

                  This civilian journalist wonders if "30 Minutes with Vanunu" will be the NEXT testimony used against him in the 'democracy' of Israel.

                  This civilian journalist, a member of The New Fourth Estate will feel a sense of RESPONSIBILITY if it is.

                  I wonder too, if feeling a sense of responsibility just might be the difference between paid professional journalists and The New Fourth Estate; who do NOT take orders from Editors or paychecks from conglomerates.

                  "30 Minutes with Vanunu" UNCENSORED by Israel and streaming FREELY on:
                  http://www.wearewideawake.org/

              •  A reporter who misuses too? (0+ / 0-)

                Equating a terrorist leader with Moses is unacceptable.

                by Pumpkinlove on Tue May 29, 2007 at 06:56:35 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Regarding Eileen (2+ / 0-)

    For the record, this is my fourth, MAYBE fifth comment on this so-called "progressive democratic" site.  But I have been reading the IP diaries as you like to call them and have seen LITTLE discussion of the diaries themselves. Quite frankly, as a life-long 34 year registered Democrat, I am embarrassed by what goes on here.  

    This is from YOUR site:
    "Support of Palestine - The linchpin to peace in the Middle-East and root cause of fundamentalist Islamic terrorism is the Israel-Palestine conflict. Progressives know that the isreali state is dependent on U.S. foreign aid and that this creates incentives for rightist Israeli politicians to provoke violent Palestinian resistance. They also know that the unresolved Israeli-Palestinian conflict spills over into Lebanon. As long as the U.S. endorses Zionist positions uncritically there will be no peace in the Levant."
    http://www.dkosopedia.com/...

    What say you "regulars" here?
    What say you to the observation that every single diarist posting here on behalf of the Palestinian people, be they Palestinian (Sabbah) Israeli (Desert Peace) or Christian (American/Eileen)is attacked on a personal level?

    What say you to the ability to respond POLITELY yourselves to what is posted here?

    What say you to paid  journalists who have their articles posted in newspapers with vehemently opposing views appearing in the same newspaper?  Should they refuse to be published in those newspapers like you are asking Eileen to do?

    What say you to your declared purpose of getting Democrats elected?  Will any old Democrat do or is it your purpose to vet out whom you feel is best for the job INCLUDING your own definition of "progressive" when it relates to the Palestinians?
    Are you guys heavy-weights or nit-picking light-weights in this arena? Are you more interested in not offending a certain element, or are you interested in getting a Democrat who is the BEST person elected and ARE you interested in peace in the Middle East, because NOT JUST ANY OLD DEMOCRAT WILL SUFFICE.  And it CERTAINLY cannot be one beholden to Likud/AIPAC policies which are CARRIED OUT IN THE OCCUPATION that every time a diarist posts about it here condemning it you either attack them personally or ban them.

    Get real DKOS, grow up and act like adults.  Discuss the ISSUES in a sane manner and stop acting like a bunch of school children.  This is a SERIOUS issue and if you are not up to it, then I suggest you just admit it and be done with it.  Because THIS Democrat is embarrassed by all of you

    •  Robie: i could fall in love! (0+ / 0-)

      THANK YOU for so eloquently expressing my thoughts and frustrations with the 'kids' at DKOS.

      I assumed they are just protecting their walls of denial for the truth hurts.

      Tony Blair said that 70% of the worlds problems with terrorism can be traced back to the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

      Israel Palestine is THE ISSUE the Dems should address.

      This dairy was all about the apartheid practices of Israel, which is very well understood by most Israelis,

      But, NOT one commenter, commented on that!

      Oh well, try try again is my motto and persistence my middle name. Tomorrow i will post a diary about why the dems should listen to Jimmy Carter and where the roots of terrorism began.

      Robie, I hope you will add some more words of common sense to that one too.

      "Soon after I had published the pamphlet "Common Sense" [on Feb. 14, 1776] in America, I saw the exceeding probability that a revolution in the system of government would be followed by a revolution in the system of religion... The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."-Tom Paine

      e
      http://www.wearewideawake.org/

    •  Regarding Robie (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MBNYC

      user # 122576 with an awful lot of knowledge about this site.  

      Have you read about the Kurds and the Zoroastrians yet?

      by jhritz on Tue May 29, 2007 at 05:04:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  More on Dkospedia definitions (0+ / 0-)

    But first, is user #12576 me because I have NO idea what you are talking about when you say that user has an "awful lot of knowledge about this site". NO I DO NOT, but I DO read Dkos when it comes up on a search I am doing about any certain subject.  It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that Dkos operates another site, Dkosopedia and to look things up there.

    Have I read about the Kurds of the Zoroastrians "yet"
    NOT YET, I am interested at the moment in discussing the topic of THIS diary, PALESTINE.

    In lieu of the fact someone has said I have alot of knowledge but NO one has answered my question, here goes again ( I HAVE seen questions asked and answered so I am assuming that is "within the rules" especially when questions are asked and answered which have NOTHING to do with the diary)  So here goes again:

    In light of Dkosopedia's definition of Progressive in regards to Palestine, I ask the following:

    1.  Just what IS IT that the "rightist Israeli

       politicians" DO to "PROVOKE violent Palestinian
       RESISTANCE"  Mind you, this is DKOS definition
       NOT mine.  Like Eileen, I am both a Catholic AND
       a 100% pacifist.

    1.  Is the OCCUPATION part of "rightist" policy?
    1.  If "Progressives know that the Israeli state

       is dependent on US foreign aid and that this
       CREATES incentives for rightest Israeli
       politicians" WHAT IS THE SOLUTION FROM
       DKOS. Do they support candidates who continue
       to give unyielding support of Israel?  Because
       IF they do, then per their OWN definition, this
       leads to "no peace in the Levant"

    Here's more from Dkosopedia
    http://www.dkosopedia.com/...
    "Israel, Pro-Palestinian Historical Prospective
    From dKosopedia
    [edit]
    Historical Background

    Why this historical background is written from a pro-Palestinian POV

    The recent political history of Israel and Palestine is a topic that is dealt with in many places on-line, usually claiming to be unbiased, usually failing. Trying to come up with a neutraly-written history is hard, and ultimately subjective and unlikely to be agreed upon. Fortunately dKosopedia rejects the NPV (Neutral Point of View) of the Wikipedia, allowing an easier solution - a biased but acurate history of the troubles, with links to other points of view that are available on-line. The following is therefore written from a pro-Palestinian point of view, with the belief that a rational reading of the evidence leads to a pro-Palestinian conclusion. "

    Hmmm, VERY interesting indeed.  

    Please explain how this definition, on Dkosopedia meshes with the actions and words of commenters over here.  Personally, this whole thing is CONFUSING pertaining to your definitions vs. behavior of posters.  Anyone with any sense at all wants peace, but you guys are SCHIZOPHRENIC or at the very least, multi-talented in your approach which has led to NOTHING but attempts to derail diarists or ban them altogether, the VERY PEOPLE you claim to support.
    SADDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

    •  Two things (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MBNYC, Shane Hensinger

      you don't know:

      Dkos operates another site, Dkosopedia

      No, they don't.  Dkospedia is separate.  The Sysops there do not reflect the management of DKos and DKos admins have no influence on DKospedia.

      And my sig line (re: Kurds, etc...) is a sig line.  A sig line a sentence that people can attach to all their messages.  It has nothing to do with you.

      The rest of your long post is, well, long.

      Two observations:

      You say you're neutral, but your post above expresses support for Desert Peace who endorsed Ben Heine's diary...  

      You seem to be having conversations with Eileen a large percentage of your short time here and seem quick with the ad hominems toward others.

      Just some observations.  I'll leave it to others to figure out what it all means.  

      End of thread.

      Have you read about the Kurds and the Zoroastrians yet?

      by jhritz on Tue May 29, 2007 at 10:05:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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