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Listening to Barney Frank's committee explore the problems with internet gambling as I sit at my computer looking (as I have for the last year) for employment, I have questions about the future of our economy.

For instance, if China gets all the manufacturing and India gets all the computer work, what does America get? Right now it seems like we get tagged as the "world's shopper", something we seem to do almost completely on credit.

Our economy seems to be based on buying what the world sells and going further into debt.

The committee hearing has made me aware that there are people who make their living playing poker. Others maintain relationships with internet gambling sites (which are questionably illegal under U.S. law) as an occupation. This also seems to steer the participants toward more debt.

If there is a way to profit from being a major debtor, then this country must be doing very well... as Bush has made us, each and every one of us, liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars as he spends billions every month on the war.

Somehow I wish we were economically back where we were when I was a kid... a manufacturing country that controlled it's trading and kept us as the major economic power in the world.

Under The LobsterScope

Originally posted to Bill Tchakirides on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:40 AM PDT.


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Comment Preferences

  •  got me? (4+ / 0-)

    I've been saying the same thing.  Our major employers seem to be government, healthcare, and education.  Those are industries that do not create or growth wealth at all.

    Right now in our public schools, 1 out of three kids are dropping out and not even getting a high school education.  You tell me what these millions of kids each year are suppose to do?

    The sun is setting on this experiment, sorry bu you just can't base a country on greed and think it will last.

    Generals gathered in their masses Just like witches at black masses.. Evil minds that plot destruction Sorcerers of deaths construction..........

    by pissedpatriot on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:46:20 AM PDT

    •  More Than They'll Do With the Education (3+ / 0-)

      It's not like they can be programmers, customer service workers, clerical workers, accountants, skilled laborers, engineers....

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:50:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You've got a point. (0+ / 0-)

        Would I encourage a high school kid to go to college? Hell no. Go get a job.

        The work experience will be worth way more than the degree.

      •  India has all of those occupations covered. (0+ / 0-)

        America has risen to the top of what it is best at, greed. Yep, that's why we are the best consumers. Somebody's got to do

        •  no they don't (0+ / 0-)

          Now hold on there, while Americans are under attack for labor arbitrage purposes, the US still has the best schools in the world (universities) and there is a huge STEM workforce in the US.

          They just need to be supported.  India wants you to believe that for their own agenda but it's simply not true by the patents, the innovations and facts....

          by BobOak on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 10:45:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry the delay, I've been at a county faire. (0+ / 0-)

            Responding to your response; did you notice the "lol" (meaning laugh out loud) after my comment? I was being somewhat snarkish.

            If I were more serious about the topic, I would given some info to support my position. In reading your response, I see you give no support for your assertions, and are expecting to be taken seriously.

    •  The American style of unrestrained capitalism.... (3+ / 0-)

      is about to be hung, and the capitalists created their own noose.   It doesn't take a PhD in economics (which is not a rigorous science) to see that it is just a bit shortsighted to ship out all your jobs and manufacturing overseas, leaving the US with a few rich executives and the rest a bunch of  low income service industry jobs.  All the rest of the world has to do to sink us is cut off the loans and cut off the container ships.

       If we continue to act as belligerent as we have in past years, I feel it is only a matter of time until they do so.  As the economies of India and China continue to grow with the jobs we used to have, huge new markets are being created with people who can afford the goods.  Why should China continue to loan us money when they can start selling to 2 billion people in their own country and India?

      The meek shall inherit nothing. -F.Zappa

      by cometman on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:58:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We've Based Our Future On the World's Demand for (3+ / 0-)

    us to police, manage and entertain them.

    As we laugh and call them "irrelevant."

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:47:58 AM PDT

  •  'Our' future: (5+ / 0-)

    Destabilize the world, and sell them all arms.

    "The military industrial complex not only controls our government, lock, stock and barrel, but they control our culture." - Mike Gravel

    by Wilberforce on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:48:31 AM PDT

  •  We need to face the future. (0+ / 0-)

    The future is, labor will not be needed.

    So, what is to be done will all those inconvenient people?

    Carousel anyone?

    Seriously, though, what are all the people going to do to make a nice middle class living when everything is automated, or offshored or deemed "too dirty for an American to do?"

    08 - Leaning Edwards, Clark, Kucinich, Gore, Obama
    -7.75 -6.05
    Fox News - We Distort, You Deride

    by rick on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:50:04 AM PDT

    •  Think Hard About the Scottish Highlands (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      opendna, importer

      After the 1745 rebellion, England helped the Highland lairds to realize that their people were neither a lucrative market nor a profitable workforce.

      The solution then as it always is when populations are no longer needed, is that they were gotten rid of.

      It's a pretty place to tour. Sheep, tree farms and a whole lot of empty.

      I keep saying our left does not grasp what technology is implying for our future.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:53:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  wanna see the future (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        slave138, BobOak

        the future is right before our eyes, look at the inner city and its poverty. It is made up of minorities who helped build this country with their backs, their backs are no longer needed so they simply have been tossed aside.

        Its ironic that americans just don't seem to want to see this, but yet drug cartels have long recognized it, and has used this forgotten demographic to help bring their illegal products to market ( aka drugs).

        There has been some good documentaries on this subject, americans would rather just ignore the problem, Ignoring it seems is something we excel at.

        Generals gathered in their masses Just like witches at black masses.. Evil minds that plot destruction Sorcerers of deaths construction..........

        by pissedpatriot on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:57:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Plug in electric cars from Toyota will save us (0+ / 0-)

    in spite of ourselves.

    The greed of Detroit/Oil will force Americans out of their Hummers into the next generation Prius, and when the roads are full of electric cars we won't have to buy oil overseas...

    We can dream.

    "We will now proceed to construct the socialist order."

    by 7November on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:51:49 AM PDT

    •  Pipe dream (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Electric cars need their energy from somewhere.  Natural gas has a limited supply left.  Do we want more coal power plants to further the effects of catastrophic global warming?  

      We've built an energy intensive infrastructure that has no future.  Yet we keep thinking that sticking to the same plan....

  •  Shopping center landlords make (0+ / 0-)

    big money.

    We must get rid of patents and become the world's shopping and consumption Mecca.

  •  I sell you my house to fund my retirement (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alexander G Rubio, BobOak, zorba

    and you sell me yours to fund your retirement.  Simple.

    December is the new September.

    by Inland on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 09:15:37 AM PDT

  •  the answer (4+ / 0-)

    Somehow I wish we were economically back where we were when I was a kid... a manufacturing country that controlled it's trading and kept us as the major economic power in the world.

    is quite simple. Just get the rest of the world to play WWIII so that their inrastructure and plants are reduced to rubble and ashes. Pretty much how it happened last time around.

    Problem was that people started to think that was the normal state of affairs.

  •  I share your sentiment. One of the good.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alexander G Rubio, BobOak

    things about a manufacturing economy are the disciplined trades. Making something from wood, metal, even plastic requires the ability to use math, and hands on materials. If a mistake is made, and scrap is the outcome, you try to do better the next time.

    In today's world of consumption, you don't need to calculate anything (Visa and Mastercard do that), and the only hands on is pushing a shopping cart.

    Of course the skills one learns in a shoppers world are helpful when choosing political candidates. For example, "Buy one Get One Free" applies to H. Clinton because her husband is part of the package. Brand recognition is also an important skill. Think here of the Obama brand. Short unique name, very catchy with only three short sylables. I think we'll see designer Obama jeans, Tee shirts, and even new beverages at Starbucks, whether or not he wins.

    Bargain basement items like third tier candidates are a real steal. If you can't afford to pay for the big ticket candidates, you can always find a discounted one here. Kinda like Nordstrom's Rack.

    I spent more than ten years in the manufacturing sector many years ago. I think it is honest work for the most part. The draw back was working for defense contractors making WMDs. Thankfully, we don't have to do that anymore, China does it for us. Wonder when we'll no longer have to fight our wars, and let others do it for us. Certainly Blackwater and other mercenary companies are already leading the way. This is where knowledge of gambling really pays off. If the country that makes our weaponry decides to use it against us ....well, what are the odds?

  •  The basis of our economic future is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:


  •  could i point out (0+ / 0-)

    amidst the gloom,

    that our per capita GDP is among the highest in the world

    Our unemployment rate is comfortably low

    Our economy continues to grow

    People line up around the world to come here (from China and India too)

    That George W. Bush is our president

    That Paris Hilton survived jail

  •  Forget money (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Forget money; that's not some ascetic advice. It's common sense WRT understanding the economics of trade.

    A country exports goods or services in return for other goods and services that it imports. The idea that you can go on shipping around money is a delusion. What the Chinese are borrowing is our later production, probably raw materials.

    •  Trade profile of the US (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Alexander G Rubio, BobOak

      Already looks disturbingly similar to a third world exports, nat resources...the consumer debt being piled up today will be paid out of the natural wealth of our nation in the future.
      That means, on a practical level, that enormous pressure will be put on the environment and anything that gets in the way of extraction from it.
      When the only way people can keep shopping is to drill in the National Parks or cut down the redwoods, what do you think will give way?
      Increasing immigration necessary to have enough young workers to fund the interest payments on our collective debt will give us a population density similar to China and India in the next few decades.
      That's our future, no doubt.

      We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. Aesop (620 - 560 BC) -8.13, -7.74

      by AWhitneyBrown on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 09:59:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Arbitrage, fast food, insurance and prisons. n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  nukes? (0+ / 0-)

    It seems like the basis for the continuing ability of the US to keep getting credit from the rest of the world is the thousands of nuclear weapons we have pointed at them. Since the control of those weapons rests in the hands of a relatively small group of people (the military and the corporate-government-financial elite that funds the military), the chances are that those people will make sure their interests are served, and that if sacrifices need to be made, other people will be making them.

    To keep this situation going, the rest of the world has to get some substantial benefit from taking our funny money bonds in exchange for their currency and goods. So far they have been benefiting from the American jobs, heavy industry and technology that the elites have been transferring to them. Eventually there will probably have to be some sort of economic "correction" where the middle and upper middle class get stripped of the financial assets they were able to retain while the lower middle class and poor were suffering the major pain from the previous rounds of asset stripping. At some point ownership of American land, our remaining gold reserves, and our natural resources will probably be made available to our creditors at fire-sale prices (compared to now). Eventually the bulk of able-bodied American citizens may be conscripted to fight for other countries in their resource wars, or massively resettled to work in indentured service in foreign countries. Both of those outcomes could be achieved by government mandate or more likely via simple economic incentives (homelessness and starvation being tremendous motivators). When only the nukes are left, either they too will be sold off or someone will try to use them (maybe one or two for demonstration purposes at first) to extort money from the creditor nations.

  •  Welcome to the Progressive/Populist movement! (0+ / 0-)

    That's why we're here!  To get a sane economic (trade) policy and enforcement to get our nation back.

    Start reading, start getting educated on how we're being sold down the river and how working America is plain under well as the US in raw economic indicators (Macro economics)....and join the party in speaking up.

    You got it, Multinational corporations seem to be hell bent on destroying America for short term profits.

    by BobOak on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 10:43:21 AM PDT

  •  Indiscriminate exponential growth... (0+ / 0-)

    at any cost. Economists, politicians, and businessmen, pushing our every addiction.

    Are Humans Smarter Than Yeast? (video clip: 8.5min)

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