The fun starts here:
I got into it with a right-wing troll. What was funny is that he is one of those guys that tries really hard to act like he's a reasonable person, but with a different perspective on the issue. So I started by engaging him honestly, mustering reason and research to bolster my points.
But he kept hammering on one single talking point (sound familiar?) and I realized that he was not engaging me...
So, finally, I blasted his key point and started ridiculing him. But I'm fairly proud of some of my research which I compiled on the way, and also I think the community could benefit from one thing: HAMMER THEIR TALKING POINT. Once you destroy the premise they repeat over and over like a mantra, you have employed powerful jiu-jitsu. It is how we need to respond to RW bullshit in all quarters - war in Iraq, universal health care, so on and so on. The right wing does not use facts - it uses talking points. Liberals use facts and are more likely to be "right," technocratically speaking, on any given issue. That has certainly been the case in Portland over the past 30 years of argument about urban planning. But the good liberals of Portland have never aggressively attacked the RW talking points, which is why they are contantly under attack from the vested interests (developers, pro-auto folks) who want to dismantle what is still the best planning regime in the United States.
Here is my last post in the thread:
You're a dishonest hack. Its not a personal attack - I've given you ample opportunity to respond to reason. I spent literally hours researching long substantive replies on the web - only to get obfuscation, lies and RW agit-prop from you in return. To recap:
Azulchico: Bus malls are teh answer to all our transportation woes!
ME: No they aren't.
Azulchico: Even in your own city they are expanding the transit mall!
ME: (linking Trimet) No, they are putting LRT onto the old mall, and letting cars and bikes in too. Kind of the inverse of your proposition.
Azulchico: No, um, "Idea is need to connect limited light rail to buses to make it work." (Whatever that means - but I think it means that LRT and buses complement each other, which is a point I agree with.) But LRT doesn't work and never will.
ME: endless recitation of facts and figures regarding LRT transit and BRT, and how BRT doesn't work too well in practice, and how the biggest BRT systems are being dismantled or are adding LRT to their transit mix
Azulchico: But LRT has 1/10 of the ridership in Portland!(cites dishonest right-wing study)
ME: No, it has over a third. (cites Tri-met)
ME: Oh, here's the numbers you were citing. You are a dumbass. These figures show LRT carrying almost 40% of the passenger miles at a fraction of the route and vehicle miles. LRT is a boon, you buffoon.
Azulchico: Ken Dueker, Cascade Policy Institute used Metro numbers, Jitneys!
ME: Once you say "jitneys, you are exposed as a right-wing hack who is totally unserious about transport." Jitneys are the absence of transit, not transit. They are the kind of transit that exists in dirt-poor ratholes like Peru and Rwanda, not developed countries which require reliable comfortable safe transport. Hopefully the Perus and Rwandas of the world will someday have real transport and not have to rely on things like jineys. (Okay, I didn't say that, but that's why I got so incredulous)
ME: Ken Dueker, huh? I know that guy. So where did he say "gold plated?"
Azulchico: Blue Oregon cites Cascade, they must not be all bad! (cites Ken's CV)
ME: Blue Oregon ridicules Cascade because they are a joke. Where did Ken say "gold plated?"
Azulchico: You're using bad words and bad words make the Baby Jesus cry. Here is a link to an article co-authored by Ken Dueker that does not say "gold-plated."
Teh awesome. You are a troll.