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Originally posted on Immigration Orange

(Picture from Register Hardware)

This excerpt is from an email sent by Roy Beck to supporters of his anti-migrant organization, Numbers USA.

The panic has spread to your town or city – all across America.

It is most important that all of us contribute to that panic and ensure that it continues. For it is that kind of panic that will eventually lead to millions of illegal foreign workers and dependents going back to their home countries. (emphasis mine)

Even though it has well-documented ties to white supremacy, Numbers USA isn't a fringe organization. Its been credited by the New York Times for playing a major role in the defeat of comprehensive immigration reform. Here you have the leader of a very prominent anti-migrant organization encouraging the spread of "panic".

Panic - A sudden, overpowering terror, often affecting many people at once.

I bring this to light because I was recently criticized for making the connection between the death of Maxsuel Medeiros on September 11th, and the terror that millions of migrants are living with in the United States.

Normally, criticism doesn't bother me. This time, however, the criticism came from respected friends, as well. I think Roy Beck's statement above proves not only that this terror exists, but also that prominent anti-migrant advocates are encouraging it.

It is also important to state that if my initial claims weren't wrong, I probably should have worded them differently. It's very difficult to prove that someone actually died specifically from terror, and I shouldn't have written it that way. I have never pretended to be right all the time, and I enjoy growing along with my readers and pro-migrant friends. This is a case where I should explicitly state that the wording of my post was wrong.

For those of you that haven't heard, it appears that Maxsuel Medeiros, a migrant who died in State Police custody, and Edimar De Araujo, both had cocaine in their systems when they died. The Boston Globe published a report shortly after the death of Medeiros, and the Rhode Island Medical Examiner, Thomas Gilson, concluded that De Araujo died from a lethal drug combination. Karen Lee Ziner's relentless reporting on De Araujo continues to be amazing.

That being said, I feel like the place in my heart that my post came from was right. I still stand behind this statement.

Medeiros represents the millions suffering from ubiquitous migrant terror in the U.S.

While I might not be able to prove that Medeiros and De Araujo died specifically from terror, I do think their cases represent the larger terror that millions of migrants suffer through in the U.S. everyday.

With Medeiros, the Massachusetts State Police could have done a much better job of communicating with migrant communities to prevent the spread of a panic. I'm also almost certain that if Medeiros had known his rights he would not have been picked up by the State Police.

With De Araujo, some questions still remain unanswered. Karen Lee Ziner reported that Immigration and Customs Enforcement might not have followed a procedure that could have saved De Araujo's life. I reported on it in the last post.

Either way, both of them were performing the everyday task of riding in a car one moment, and they were dead the next. This represents a real fear for every migrant in the U.S. At any moment their lives can be changed forever for arbitrary, everyday, reasons. It's happening right under the noses of progressives that don't care, and anti-migrant advocates are actively encouraging this terror.

It's the fact that you can get detained for riding in a car, for opening the door when it's your constitutional right to keep it closed, for picking up your children at school, for going to work, that makes the death of De Araujo and Medeiros so horrible. I don't think anything encapsulates this better than this quote from De Araujo's sister:

Yesterday, I was wondering how I was going to tell my mother Edmar was going to be deported. Now, I don't know how I am going to tell her Edmar is dead.

Blogs like Anchor Rising can take potshots at pro-migrant advocates all they want, but they're on the wrong side of justice.


Originally posted to kyledeb on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 12:44 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tips and a note to Progressives (12+ / 0-)

    Let's see if we can get the broader progressive community to stand out against this injustice.  

    If you're thinking of spewing the usual anti-migrant talking points, see my answers here.

    Immigration Orange Lesson #1: The Correct Term is Migrant
    Immigration Orange Lesson #2: Justice for Migrants
    Immigration Orange Lesson #3: 'I Am Pro-Legal Immigrant' and Ignorant
    Immigration Orange Lesson #4: 'No Amnesty' Except for Cubans
    Immigration Orange Lesson #5: 'America First' Makes U.S. Citizens Suffer

    The U.S. "immigration debate" has lost sight of justice.

    by kyledeb on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 12:39:28 PM PDT

    •  Just a minor style tip (0+ / 0-)

      But I think it might be better not to link to a thread that calls us hostile territory:

      I cross-posted this on Daily Kos and Blue Mass. Group if anyone is interested in defending me on hostile territory.

      and bigots:

      I think with regard to DKos, just write the diaries entirely in Spanish, and at least that way it will place the bigotry of so-called progressives center stage.

      Otherwise, I agree with you.

  •  Here is something that is (4+ / 0-)

    helping spread panic about illegals and any other immigrants.  I got this in an e-mail and apologize for the length.  A progressive sent this to us and that shows me how scared people are.  

    This is a long and profound read, but I would encourage you to take the time
    to read it completely through.  Its thought-provoking -- and a little

    >> We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context
    >> his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an
    >> immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to
    >> capacity by many of America's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant
    >> college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his
    >> latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and
    >> illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would
    >> march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The
    >> American Dream.
    >> Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and
    >> gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat
    >> spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the
    >> United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too
    >> self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that
    >> hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time.
    >> Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and
    >> that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit
    >> suicide.'"
    >> "Here is how they do it," Lamm said: "First, to destroy America, turn
    >> America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country."
    >> History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and
    >> antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a
    >> blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for
    >> a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put
    >> it this way: "The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that
    >> do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy."
    >> Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national
    >> existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence.
    >> Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic
    >> rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and
    >> Corsicans.".
    >> Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America, "Invent 'multiculturalism'
    >> and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an
    >> article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no
    >> cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the
    >> Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and
    >> discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of
    >> bounds.
    >> Third, "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without
    >> much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As
    >> Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: "The apparent
    >> success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have
    >> been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance
    >> that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American,
    >> we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together."
    >> Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language
    >> and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad
    >> bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural
    >> subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as
    >> Americans, emphasizing their similarities."
    >> "Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least
    >> educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated,
    >> undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this
    >> second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."
    >> "My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations
    >> and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in
    >> ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I
    >> would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the
    >> fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all
    >> minority failure on the majority population."
    >> "My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship,
    >> and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity.
    >> I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people
    >> worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they
    >> are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is
    >> against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes
    >> to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks The Greeks
    >> believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common
    >> language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece
    >> took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened
    >> their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome
    >> two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured
    >> political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" -- >From many, one.
    >> In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus'
    >> instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as surely as Kosovo."
    >> "Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to
    >> talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a
    >> word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion
    >> and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt
    >> discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural
    >> country, having
    >> established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the
    >> doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce
    >> our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because
    >> immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would
    >> make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative
    >> impact of millions of them."
    >> In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow.
    >> Profound silence followed. Finally he said,. "Lastly, I would censor
    >> Victor Hanson Davis's book "Mexifornia." His book is dangerous. It
    >> exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to
    >> be destroyed, don't read that book."
    >> There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous
    >> cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that
    >> room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically,
    >> quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today.
    >> Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the
    >> foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Even
    >> barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing
    >> as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third
    >> World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of
    >> California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and
    >> growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that
    >> story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building:
    >> "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."
    >> Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the
    >> conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is
    >> deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration
    >> monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California
    >> wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American
    >> Dream.
    >> If you care for and love our country as I do, take the time to pass
    >> this on just as I did for you. Trust me NOTHING is going to happen if
    >> you don't !


    "Do you want to tumble? Let's tumble." Stephen Colbert

    by tobendaro on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 12:43:45 PM PDT

    •  I hear you (9+ / 0-)

      many thanks for that email.  The right is using migrants as punching bags and progressives are standing by and watching.

      The U.S. "immigration debate" has lost sight of justice.

      by kyledeb on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 12:46:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The friend that sent this (4+ / 0-)

        was not sure about it and I immediatly set her straight.  She got it from another friend who says he is progressive but really has a fear of the migrants.  I have no patience for any of this and I am prone to blast people who start this crap with me.  It is all rank xenophobia.

        "Do you want to tumble? Let's tumble." Stephen Colbert

        by tobendaro on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 12:52:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's more than that (5+ / 0-)

          certainly racial constructs play a big role in the fear of migrants, but the real culprit is nativism.  It's the concept that a migrant isn't worth as much as a U.S. citizen because they were born in a different country.  I look forward to the day when U.S. citizens realize that looking out for everyone ends up making U.S. citizens better off as well.

          The U.S. "immigration debate" has lost sight of justice.

          by kyledeb on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 01:00:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There is a non-racist component. Job loss and (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            wage depression is real.

            Outsourcing, and the reduction of wages in unskilled and skilled labor, even in professional areas such as computer programming, and the hiring of illegals/legals/migrants at lower wages creates resentment and fuels the desire for restrictive immigration policies as well as potentially igniting racism.

            We ignore those realities at at our tremendous peril if we only diagnose it as racism. There are real issues at play fueling some of this.

            Children in the U.S... detained [against] intl. & domestic standards." --Amnesty Internati

            by doinaheckuvanutjob on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:12:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Depends on whose statistics you cite (0+ / 0-)

              While in theory job loss should be occurring, proving that in reality is often very difficult and their are conflicting studies.

              The U.S. "immigration debate" has lost sight of justice.

              by kyledeb on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:50:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Good point, but it still a clear reality that (0+ / 0-)

                computer jobs are often now given to lower paid immigrants, in fact recruited, that phone customer service rep jobs are outsourced overseas, that immigrants toiling in the fields or in restaurants usually earn less than most Americans. Another example, construction jobs that are done cheaper by Mexican immigrants displacing American workers and lower their wages.

                To dismiss that as merely anecdoctal we do, once again, at our peril.

                Children in the U.S... detained [against] intl. & domestic standards." --Amnesty Internati

                by doinaheckuvanutjob on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:55:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I understand (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  It's one thing to make generalizations about a certain job, it's another to suggest that migrants are "hurting America", because the dollars people are losing in wages they are regaining in consumption in a certain sense.  While I will concede it is usually well-off U.S. citizens that gain from models like this, it's important to realize that making the claim migrants are hurting U.S. citizens overall is disputed.

                  I also think your confusing two things, outsourcing and migration.  While both are important to consider, I'm concerned with migration not with outsourcing.

                  The U.S. "immigration debate" has lost sight of justice.

                  by kyledeb on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 07:00:17 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Good points you made, thank you. (0+ / 0-)

                    Regarding the mixing of the outsourcing & migration issue, while they may be separate and certainly figure into separate policy or statistical categories, they are linked as far as the perception of American job loss to non-Americans is perceived. Mind you, I'm not pushing that viewpoint myself, only trying to point out how it's often perceived and how important it is for us to understand that perception when forming policy and politicking. There's more to be said about that, but I think you already understand what I'm getting at about it.

                    Children in the U.S... detained [against] intl. & domestic standards." --Amnesty Internati

                    by doinaheckuvanutjob on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 12:24:26 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  I am sick to death (3+ / 0-)

      of white supremacists and language bigots in the United States flourishing Canada around as a "horrible example."

      It is true that we have had to wrestle with the issue of how to accommodate two languages. It is also true that we haven't yet arrived at a dazzling perfect solution.

      What these racists don't say (because the concept is outside their universe) is that the process of being forced to adjust to each others' differences has made Canada a better place to live -- for everyone.

      It's a standing joke that when one Canadian steps on another Canadian's toes in a crowd, both will instantly apologize. But when you think about it, that social reflex isn't ridiculous at all. It's a sign of a culture that places a high value on courtesy, respect for others, and not insisting on one's own rights to the exclusion of everyone else's.

      This contributes enormously to the quality of life here.

      There's nothing special about the air in Canada that makes us want to be polite to people different from ourselves. We're not inherently any nicer than anyone else. We've had to learn... we've had our noses rubbed in the necessity of learning... because there's always been that substantial minority we can't just dismiss.

      This is a Good Thing.

      If Canada ever does come apart at the seams (there's no saying we won't, someday) it won't be because we compromised too much. It'll be because we forgot the lesson and failed to keep up our skills of mutual respect.

      Lamm is mustering argument after specious argument, but what it really boils down to is, "Help! Don't make me learn any manners! Or the World! Will! END!!!"

      Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is. - TNH

      by Canadian Reader on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:27:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)

        This is nothing but a screed aimed to make people afraid.  Nothing in it is a reality. It is talking points being deceminated with speed and efficiency.  The examples of countries not dealing with different cultures is such a crock I can't believe anyone falls for it.  Disgusting.  Notice the fawning and accolades for the idiot that wrote it.  

        "Do you want to tumble? Let's tumble." Stephen Colbert

        by tobendaro on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:51:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  if Canada splits (0+ / 0-)

        it'll likely be because Lamm and his ilk comes up there to spew his filth.

        •  No, we have our own home-bred assholes. (0+ / 0-)

          As I said, we're not inherently nicer than anyone else. We've just had a bit of sense banged into our heads... and there are always a few slow learners in every crowd, not to mention unscrupulous politicians who think they can win by fostering a sense of grievance.

          Don't get me started on Mulroney (ptui).

          Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is. - TNH

          by Canadian Reader on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:11:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  There is another joke about Canadians (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Canadian Reader

        Q. How do you get 50 Canadians out of a swimming pool?

        A. Say, "Would all the Canadians please get out of the pool?"

        Your country has a reputation for politeness, and from personal experience I can say that it is well-deserved.

    •  Resentment of (im)migrants is effective. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mariachi mama, kyledeb

      Also more of a wedge issue than many here realize. Many people on the center-left spectrum are rightly fed up with outsourcing and wage depressing company tactics that hire cheap immigrant help. This turns into a greater resentment for some, many even on the left, and becomes a potential wedge issue. Politicians on the left tend to focus more on courting the latino vote versus tackling a complex problem. Immigrants are being screwed hugely by the Bush admin both in foot dragging on legal immigration, insane tyrannical raids, detention, and even torture, splitting up of families. Most of our Dem politicians don't get the level of resentment is high enough for good reason-- jobs are having their wages depressed to the point where only immigrants will take them. The solutions have to cut both ways, basic human rights for immigrants and fair policies, and greater protections for legal American workers. That should be the objective.

      A brilliant
      >> college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his
      >> latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and
      >> illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would
      >> march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The
      >> American Dream.

      Hansen is not brilliant, he is a Neocon extremist who faults Bush for not being aggressive enough on all fronts and pathologically hates liberalism, an apt comparison to his ravings is Charles Krauthammer. He is a Hoover Institute propagandist.

      And CO ex-gov. Lamm is also an extremist, his ravings and rantings against immigration are always over the top. He is also the dunce who declared the old have a duty to die and we shouldn't be funding their social security and medical care.

      Children in the U.S... detained [against] intl. & domestic standards." --Amnesty Internati

      by doinaheckuvanutjob on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:08:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Outsourcing is the opposite of immigration. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mariachi mama

        It seems to me that if you are against outsourcing because foreign workers don't have the wages and protections we have here, then immigration... especially with rights and a path to citizenship, is the way to go.

        If you are against immigration and against outsourcing, then the only alternative is that Americans should have a special place in the world market. After all, Americans sell lots of stuff overseas. As a software engineer, the only do work in your own country is especially silly to me.

        The idea that Americans should be able to compete in a world market that other nationalities are shut out seem both unethical and impractical.

        The best way is to ensure that more workers in my field  have rights and the ability to earn high wages.

        A progressive immigration plan with a path to citizenship is the answer to the outsourcing problem.

  •  my first American ancestor landed in (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theboz, hypersphere01

    Hampton NH in 1639. The point being we all came from somewhere else.

    There is all sorts of pathology at work in the attitudes these people display, not least of which is a skewed view of reality. Fear not, however. It's a phase. They'll grow out of it.

    "Freedom is a choice you have to make everyday."

    by papicek on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 12:57:55 PM PDT

    •  A horrible phase (4+ / 0-)

      Millions of migrants are suffering because U.S. citizens are having "a phase" as you put it.  I too have faith that the universe is on the side of justice and soon people will see the light, but it doesn't happen by wishing, it happens by actually doing something about it.

      The U.S. "immigration debate" has lost sight of justice.

      by kyledeb on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 01:02:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  without doubt... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        As it happens, though, the current wave of xenophobia is nothing new, "Irish Need Not Apply," being the its brand from Boston, where I live.

        I've worked with lots of immigrants, from the Carribean, Ethiopia, Cambodia, Palestine, Kenya, India, Syria, Iran, and more...decent people all. Very decent people who, more than anything else, want to get along.

        I like the salad analogy. Toss it well, mix all ingredients together and you'll find it's not hopeless. People who can stand up in public and say these things are simply white people hanging out with noone but others like themselves, rubbing up against each other until their shared fears ignite, and whose world view comes from a lopsided media. The cure for their pathology is education.

        "Freedom is a choice you have to make everyday."

        by papicek on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 01:38:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Sometimes (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MarketTrustee, kyledeb

    They really are out to get you

    Mexican Consul Enrique Hubbard Urrea has issued an unusual warning to immigrants from his country: Avoid the city of Irving. (note: a suburb of Dallas, Tx)

    Deportations in this city have skyrocketed in the last several months – from 262 in all of 2006 to 1,338 through mid-September.

    "In this city, one has to be extra careful," he told Al Día . "And if possible, avoid going through there, because we suspect, and with good reason, that people are being detained simply because of their appearance."

    A few months ago, many other Irving citizens and I collected more than 1,400 signatures from Irving residents to support Irving's Criminal Alien Removal Program. In this program, after one is in the Irving jail, the Irving police then calls ICE if they feel the person is in this country illegally. The problem is that those of us who still support the deportation of criminal aliens believe that the Irving police have gone too far.

    All of this just a few months after another nearby bedroom community (Farmer's Branch) got national attention for an ordinance prohibiting renting to undocumented

    Attorneys representing the city of Farmers Branch have asked the Carrollton-Farmers Branch school district for the names and addresses of every child living in the city and enrolled in public schools. ...
    Some social activists say illegal immigrants tend to crowd into too little space in apartments and houses, creating unsanitary or dangerous conditions.

    Presumably, a list of student names and addresses would provide information about how many children live at an address.
    Mr. O'Hare has speculated that enforcement of ordinances banning illegal immigrants from renting apartments might cause school enrollment to change.

    A judge has put enforcement of those ordinances on hold, and this year's enrollment in the Farmers Branch portion of Carrollton-Farmers Branch public schools remained steady

    "Sir, you are giving a reason for it; but that will not make it right." Samuel Johnson

    by Catte Nappe on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 01:12:53 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for the diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mariachi mama, kyledeb

    I think it's about time to hear some progresive voices on this subject. I've heard some very zenophobic talk here on dkos in the few months I've been here. I'm afraid both liberals and the common American are very mixed up on immigration. No one has explained that where they're needed immigrants are welcome. The dairy's of Wisconsin couldn't function without the undocumented neither could the potato farmers of Idaho so in those places they get a welcome and polite police protection. The fact is they've been forced to come here, where ever they are, and should be treated with the dignity they deserve.

  •  The deaths of (0+ / 0-)

    Araujo and Medeiros are horrible and my heart goes out to their families.

    My questions are apart from them, apart from any particular persons.

    What is it that you think the policy should be regarding immigration. All countries have their laws and quotas. Mexico's is quite strict.

    Do you think ours should be loosened or that it should be dropped? Just for Mexico and/or Central America or from all countries we don't have specific reason to distrust? Do you think they should all get legal status or that status should just not be checked? Should it be a mutual thing so that we'd have the option to go to their countries to live and work as well?

    Even if everyone here got legal status the question still holds.

    The panic is a crazy trend, we like someone to blame.  I don't hear many thanking the undocumented workers for the millions paid in to Social Security that will not be claimed as they complain about the drain on our resources.

    But the issue is real. The way things are now there is too much risk to get here and it's too easy for employers to take advantage of workers and so on. The status quo is not OK.  What is it you think it should change to?

    •  How to change (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Man Eegee

      Thanks for your earnest and polite questions joynow.

      First things first.  Mexico has strict immigration policies towards Central Americans because of U.S. lobbying, nothing more, nothing less.  The U.S. effort to get Mexico to crack down on Central Americans was called "Plan Sur" and I just wanted to make that clear because anti-migrant advocates often use that to point to Mexico's hypocrisy.

      Regarding what the ideal should be, I always say one thing.  The only way to stop migration is to address it at its roots, and give migrants the opportunity to stay in their own countries.  There are a lot of specifics to be hammered out with that viewpoint, but as soon as we can agree on tackling the root causes of migration we're getting somewhere.

      That could involve an awareness campaign in States of Emigration, much like Spain is doing with West Africa.  I think it involves reforming U.S. deportation policies which is making things worse in the region.  I think it involves supporting developmental initiatives that tackle the needs of migrants.

      For the 12 million migrants in the U.S., which is the most contentious issue, the only option really is a path to legalization.  There's no logical, or humane way around it.

      The U.S. "immigration debate" has lost sight of justice.

      by kyledeb on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 05:30:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  question (0+ / 0-)

    are there any good "pro" websites?

  •  If someone dies in the custody of the U.S. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    government because of inadequate and indifferent medical care, the people of that country blame America.
    Until recently, Latin Americans were overwhelmingly supportive of the U.S. Now The U.S. is viewed as dangerous to world peace and not standing for human rights. Why are human rights no longer part of the dialog about what makes America great?

    "It's OK to hate someone, but only if they're different"

    by immigradvocate on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:24:05 PM PDT

  •  There is a campaign (0+ / 0-)

    on the minutemen, alipac, etc sites to frighten all latinos regardless of citzenship, they talk it about quite openly.

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