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While it appears from more than one point of view that the War in Iraq and the War on Terror are situations from which we may never be able to extricate ourselves, from the mountains of Pakistan comes a very simple solution: convert to Islam.

Before we reject this out of hand, lets seriously consider it for a moment:  Osama Bin Laden promised the wars would be over if Americans convert to Islam.  

This may sound like a lot to ask from the most religious country in the industrialized world.  But of all the Christians in America today who profess to be religious, how many of us are seriously devout?  

How many of us are really just religious lightweights, happy to simply go to church every Sunday, attend church socials, knock back a drink or two every Christmas and not worry ourselves about the deeper implications of our faith?

Given the way most of us pay any real attention to the tenets of our faith, life really wouldn’t be that different if we were to exchange one faith for another.  The prayers would be different, but we would recite them just as mindlessly as we do today.  The sermons would in all likelihood be exactly the same, and we’d continue to snore through them.

Sure, there are a few people here and there who take religion seriously, but they are in such a small minority that their protests can be easily ignored.

All in all, converting to Islam would be a small price to pay for an end to the killing and maiming of our sons and daughters, not to mention the billions of dollars we could put to better use than fighting this perpetual war.

So let’s do away with our religious pretences, adopt Islam as our new faith, add a few extra holidays to our calendar, and get down to the real business at hand: pumping oil.

Originally posted to Yacka Jah Yacka on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 09:03 PM PDT.

Poll

Will you convert to Islam in order to stop the terrorist threat?

100%314 votes

| 314 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Fundamental(ist) misunderstanding (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sandbox, costello7

    Religion is an individual decision, not a national decision. Especially in a country whose constitution forbids religious dabbling by government.

    Your diary is as naive as one that says "why can't everyone be nice?" or "shouldn't we tame all those wild animals?". Elementary school level thinking.

    This is not a sig-line.

    by Joffan on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 09:14:27 PM PDT

  •  Nice poll (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    costello7

    I voted "No."

    People here that take religion seriously are a small minority and can be ignored? What planet are you writing this from?

    I hope this is snark because is certainly isn't realistic.

    Don't make me use my "special nerd powers" on you.

    by SeattleLiberal on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 09:36:27 PM PDT

  •  Maybe this is a put on. (0+ / 0-)

    What would you tell the women who would have to accept permanent 2nd class status.?

    •  sandbox: permanent 2nd class status for women (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dantyrant

      is a pre-Islamic tradition, not part of the religion.

      Equality isn't exactly the ruling principle in either Judaism or Christianity, either.

      http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.o...

      http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.o...

      Muslim, Jewish, Christian Sexual Ethics:
      http://www.brandeis.edu/...

      "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." --Mark Twain

      by LNK on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 12:21:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thursday Stupid. (0+ / 0-)

        It is part of the religion, douche bag.  Read the Quran before blabbering:

        "Men are managers of the affairs of women because Allah has made the one superior to the other. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 329)"

        The Hadith's are replete with this sort of stuff.

        And who cares if it's pre-Islamic, or part of Judaism/Christianity?  Only simpletons trying to deflect from the original argument point this stuff out.

        It doesn't exactly take a genius to study Islamic history and find it replete with Muzzi on Muzzi violence.

        "It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."

        by Kid Dynomite on Thu Oct 25, 2007 at 09:56:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Muzzi on Muzzi violence (0+ / 0-)

          I'm sure glad that there is no Christian on Christian violence in the world.  

          One of these days we'll have to figure out a way to stop white-on-white violence since it has resulted in WWI & WWII as well as the holocaust.

          I love it how this diary was linked to from Little Green Footballs as though it was a legitimate diary/argument.  What a bunch of little green douchebags.

          American overseas? Register to vote at www.VoteFromAbroad.org

          by YoyogiBear on Thu Oct 25, 2007 at 11:05:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Germany in WWII was not Xtian (0+ / 0-)

            Neither was Hitler, though trying to prove that he was seems to be a rallying cry for anti-religion and Mulsim fundamentalist nuts. Maybe read a book, like "The Rise and Fall of Third Reich". In there it details very concretely that the hardcore Nazis were wanted people to worship the party, not God.

            You can't equate England and Germany in WWII (or WWI) to "Christain on Christan" violence. It's funny that you deride someone linking to this diary (LGF) and dismiss them while making a vapid and facile argument yourself.

            Socrates was a soldier. Get over it.

            by Lance Rasmussen on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 05:46:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Much Easier: Everyone On Earth Surrender (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joffan

    to Canada.

    It's been a minor crusade of mine since 9/12.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:32:40 PM PDT

  •  It crossed my mind just after 9-11.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yacka Jah Yacka

    If I were President.....I might call bin Laden's bluff and convert...maybe declare America a Muslim nation.......which, actually, American Muslims report that America is, in many ways--the spirit, not the rituals.

    If it would avert so much tragedy, I'd even make a pilgrimmage to Mecca.

    Of course, I suspect that bin Laden & Co. would still be violently anti-Israel.

    But it did cross my mind that if enough people like me converted to Islam--if massive numbers of Americans did--it would radically alter Islam!

    "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." --Mark Twain

    by LNK on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 12:07:10 AM PDT

    •  No. (0+ / 0-)

      But it did cross my mind that if enough people like me converted to Islam--if massive numbers of Americans did--it would radically alter Islam!

      I understand what you're thinking when you say this, but I don't agree with it.  Islam is Islam, regardless of the intentions of the person professing to be Muslim.  Muhammad (pbuh) had to deal with a similar situation, with a group of people who halfheartedly claimed to be Muslims, but were exposed for the hypocrites that they were.  According to the Qur'an, the hypocrites would be going to hell in the hereafter.

      People who become "Muslims," with the erroneous belief that by force of numbers they could change the precepts of Islam, are in for a rude shock.  Islam doesn't work that way.  Much of Islam is "non-negotiable."

      •  yah (0+ / 0-)

        like the holding of slaves, the raping of slaves, the raping of wives, the sex of 9 year old children, the murdering of apostates, the murdering of gays.  bigoted sharia law against all minorities, including christians and jews.

        non-negotiable elements indeed.

      •  Non-negotiable, huh? (0+ / 0-)

        Then why so many different Muslim sects?

        •  Eight is "so many?" (0+ / 0-)

          Well, first off, the page you linked to has eight "sects" listed.  Some I would consider sects, others I would not (e.g., the Ahmadiyya, Kemalism).  Regardless, I wouldn't say that eight constitutes "so many" (especially in comparison to the much larger number of sects within Christianity).

          Be that as it may, the common denominator among almost all of the sects listed on that page is that they are Shia.  Being Sunni, I'm not sure exactly why it is the Shia have had a propensity for subdividing other than the Seveners (Ismailis).  The vast majority of Muslims are Sunni, some 85% or so.  And even the Shia would agree with the Sunni regarding the non-negotiable points.  The Sunni/Shia split developed due to politics, not a religious disagreement.  In that regard, Sunnis and Shia recognize each other as being Muslim.

          •  Eight is Enough (0+ / 0-)

            The point here is that you claim much of Islam to be "non-negotiable".  

            The existence of over half a dozen different sects is ample evidence that there is room for negotiaton.

            The future of Islam has yet to be written.

            •  I suspect you don't understand what's... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Captain Infidel

              ..."negotiable" and what isn't or, for that matter, why the sects started in the first place.

              To put it bluntly, nothing in the Qur'an is negotiable in any way, shape or form.  The Shia did not separate from the Sunnis due to anything in the Qur'an; as mentioned earlier, they separated over a political issue, namely who would be the successor to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).  This is why Sunnis and Shias are all Muslim, regardless of their differences.  The Shia have developed their own school of thought that does not differ on the essential, non-negotiable points.  Hypothetical American converts to Islam who think they could come into the Muslim community and change Islam to suit their own desires would find themselves outcast, shunned and ignored by the community.  Most Muslims are not so stupid as to sell their souls for a miserable price.

              As for the future of Islam not having yet been written...

              Insha'allah.

              •  Bluntly (0+ / 0-)

                nothing in the Qur'an is negotiable in any way, shape or form.

                And how many Christians will say the same thing about the Bible, regardless of sect?

                Most Muslims are not so stupid as to sell their souls for a miserable price.

                Unless they're being paid with virgins, apparently.

                •  One last comment... (0+ / 0-)

                  If you were really serious about your proposal, if you think it is a legitimate idea and have the courage of your convictions, then you should do the right thing and revert to Islam.  Why should anyone else pay you any bother if you yourself aren't willing to lead the way?

                  When shall we be seeing you at the masjid, brother?

    •  thats the most retarded idea ever (0+ / 0-)

      unless of course its all snark, then my bad.

  •  I too hope this diary is snark. (0+ / 0-)

    As a Muslim, of course, yes, I want non-Muslims to embrace Islam, but the reason for the "conversions" is something few Muslims would want to see happen.  In Islam, intentions are very important.  What is your intention for becoming Muslim?  To end the war on terror?  Sorry.  While that goal is laudable, it's not enough.  We don't want people to become Muslim for such a petty reason.  

    We want people to become Muslim for the sake of Allah (swt) and all that that implies and entails.  For example, you asked "How many of us are really just religious lightweights...?"  The fact of the matter is, most Muslims do take their religion seriously.  A week and a half ago, we Muslims finished our fasting for the month of Ramadan.  That meant no food, no water or other drinks, no smoking (for those who normally smoke) or sex for about 13.5 hours a day, for 30 straight days.  Think your "religious lightweights" will be up to the task?  I doubt it.  And, like Lent, this is an annual experience as well; I just finished my eighth Ramadan.

    So, I'll be more than happy to accept those men and women who accept Islam for the best of reasons, for the sake of Allah (swt).  For any other reason the "conversion" is prolly only half-hearted at best.

    •  Conversions (0+ / 0-)

      People convert to other religions for all sorts of petty reasons, whether you're aware of it or not.  

      I just finished reading Salonica: City of Ghosts, which relates numerous stories of conversions to and from Islam, Judaism, and Christianity motivated more by reasons related to business and social position than any heartfelt contemplation of religious truth.

      Even today, I know of at least two people who have converted to Islam simply for parental approval of their marriages. And it was explicitly stated that all they wanted to see was the person "go through the motions" - any fundamental change of faith was not required.

      Islam contains far more ""half-hearted" followers than you might imagine.

      •  Yes, I'm well aware... (0+ / 0-)

        ...that people revert to Islam for petty reasons.  That's not my point.  My point is that Muslims would want people to have the right intention for reverting to Islam instead of a petty reason.  In Islam, one's intention to behave in a certain way carries considerable weight, both in this life and the Hereafter.  How much more forgiveness might Allah (swt) grant to one who reverted to Islam for His sake than for a person who reverted for a petty reason, like marriage or business?  For their sake, we would hope for the former than the latter.

        Allahu alim (God knows best).

        •  The right intentions (0+ / 0-)

          My point is that Muslims would want people to have the right intention for reverting to Islam instead of a petty reason.

          Of course they would, just as members of any faith would want converts to their religion to approach it with the best of intentions.

          But we're talking about ending terrorism here, so all bets are off on this intentions crap.  I mean, who's gonna know? Do Muslim initiates have to pass a polygraph test?

          Didn't think so.

          •  Who's gonna know? (0+ / 0-)

            We'll know soon enough.  Behavior outs a person on their own fairly quickly.  We see this often enough.

            And just because a person proclaims him or herself to be a Muslim doesn't mean that he or she is in a state of Islam.

  •  I don't think anything would make Osama happy (0+ / 0-)

    at least not anything that Americans would find acceptable. Just being nominally Muslim wouldn't be any more acceptable to the Islamic wingnuts than our current nominal Christianity is to the likes of Pat Robertson.

    Osama has killed his thousands, and Bush his tens of thousands.

    by Sura 109 on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 06:52:38 AM PDT

  •  These wars are not about religon. (0+ / 0-)

    That's just to give the simple people something to talk about.

  •  Why don't we just prostitute ourselves...... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rohan, pressto

    To the highest bidder instead, we can always lie back ( or bend over) and think of England during the "service".

    Naive is not the word for this Diary......!

    The big print giveth and the small print taketh away

    by spinaltap on Thu Oct 25, 2007 at 10:01:43 PM PDT

  •  How many people take their religion seriously? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JDsg

    Me and most of my friends.  I hope this thread is a joke.  Your assumption that people in America are apathetic towards religion negates any real reason to convert to Islam.  Methinks you've assumed too much.

    Who are the add wizards that came up with that one?

    by gordonshero on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 12:07:26 AM PDT

    •  but then again (0+ / 0-)

      if you're so apathetic, converting to Islam wouldn't matter much to you anyway since you apparently have nothing to live for and no belief system that you feel is worth holding onto.

      Who are the add wizards that came up with that one?

      by gordonshero on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 12:10:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That was kind of the point. (0+ / 0-)

        Most Americans don't really take their religion seriously. The diarist suggest that your religion might as well be Islam, if you treat it so glibly.

        no belief system that you feel is worth holding onto

        Here's the belief system that I find worth holding on to:

        Amendment I

        Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

        Amendment II

        A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

        Amendment III

        No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

        Amendment IV

        The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

        Amendment V

        No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

        Amendment VI

        In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

        Amendment VII

        In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

        Amendment VIII

        Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

        Amendment IX

        The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

        Amendment X

        The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

        We still seem to have the right not to have soldiers quartered in our homes. Can't say much for the rest of it.

        Osama has killed his thousands, and Bush his tens of thousands.

        by Sura 109 on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 07:05:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  right (0+ / 0-)

          i understood the message, guess i just don't agree with it or the assumptions it's based on.  still wondering why you bothered with the second half of your reply.  oh well.

          Who are the add wizards that came up with that one?

          by gordonshero on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 11:56:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Ummmmm, no thanks. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pressto, DrZin

    I suspect it would take 30 seconds for Osama to have us all declared apostates and the killing would continue.  You can't just change the Quran because there are a lot of you.

    While the jihadis view this as a religious conflict... it is about more than them being "believers" and us being "Kufars" and it's a Southparkesque fallacy that if we just took a pledge (with our fingers crossed) all would be forgiven.  I suspect that it would just embolden them to push harder for al Qaida's political goals (of which I think you know ZERO) of a world Caliphate (read that "Islamic Government").  Not sounding so pretty is it?

    Islam is Submission to God.  Submission to Islam.  Islam is also more than a religion, it is a form of GOVERNMENT!   You might want to actaully read the Quran or the Hadith before you spout off this crap.  I hope it was a snark... but from your comments I see it was not.

    When you don't value your own history and culture enough to defend it or fight for it... it is worthless.

    I suggest you consider moving to middle east if you want to live under Sharia law.  Or just try France.  They will be muslim in a generation or so...  Last I checked this was America and I can worship as I please (or not) and I like it that way.

    My freedom is more important than your good idea. - Bumper Sticker

    by Captain Infidel on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 04:22:42 AM PDT

  •  O.K. This is a Joke, right? I hope this is a joke (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pressto, Curufinwe

    Will I have to make my wife wear a burka, and cut her clitoris off as well? I have several gay friends; should I start collecting large stones?

    I hope to God you're being glib, otherwise you're just an enabler of the medieval mindset that every progressive should oppose with every ounce of his or her being.

  •  Greetings, lizardoids. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pontechango, Yacka Jah Yacka

    To all the good LGFbots who followed the link from this story at a certain wingnut site -- greetings, and welcome to Daily Kos.

    This diary is an example of what we adults call "snark." You've got to read between the lines to get at what the diarist is really saying. No one is seriously calling for anyone to convert to Islam.

    And indeed as I noted over at your little wingnut gated community before Chucky declared me persona non grata, an Emirate of Washington is unlikely to live in peace with the other Muslim countries. Radical Islam combined with American exceptionalism might well make "Islamofascism" a reality.

    Osama has killed his thousands, and Bush his tens of thousands.

    by Sura 109 on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 07:00:39 AM PDT

    •  Reply to #579 "kerravon" (0+ / 0-)

      Absolutely. You need to get into the position where you can simply carpet-bomb various countries and get THEM to ask THEMSELVES "why are they bombing me? did I do something to upset them? is there something I can do to fix myself?".

      At the moment they're too stupid to do this sort of introspection, so you would be forced to carpet bomb into genocide.

      Bush did the right thing by giving them a chance to save their lives. Exactly as Jesus would have wanted.

      Now that you know what's causing the problem, and what they need to be educated with, you can take the next step to help them save their lives.

      OK, scroll up to the top of the comments section, right below the story, where Chucky gives us his little apologia for the ranting wingnuttery on his site.  Chucky sez:

      • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.

      Alas, I have no direct way to know if #579 is going to get "kerravon" banned, since Chucky in his paranoia has barred the not-logged-in from viewing user profiles.

      Osama has killed his thousands, and Bush his tens of thousands.

      by Sura 109 on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 07:17:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Reply to #1155 "Hard Right" (0+ / 0-)

      Yup. He/she [Moi.-109] was spewing the usual hateful names-wingnuts etc. I love how they get bounced from LGF then think it was because they didn't tow the "line" here.

      Well, lessee, my last comments over there were on the Ted Nugent thread (8/24 I think, I can't be arsed to look it up), and used no hateful names (as if "moonbat" isn't a hateful name), and merely contrasted the hysteria of the Liberal Media® over Natalie Maines' mild criticism of george w. bush with the crickets over Ted Nugent's vile remarks. If that was enough to get me booted then evidently not toeing the line is enough to offend Chucky.

      BTW it's toe the line.

      Osama has killed his thousands, and Bush his tens of thousands.

      by Sura 109 on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 10:06:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why not to Christianity? (0+ / 0-)

    Some have asserted that Christian dominionists are even more of a threat than jihadists. But I haven't heard anyone suggest that converting to Christian theology -- however nominally (and analogously it needn't be a dominionist variant any more than the proposed conversion above would be to a radical Islamist one) -- would be a good way to defang it.

    This entire line of argument is just ridiculous.

  •  Converting to Islam doesn't solve the problem (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sura 109

    Bin Laden's allies blew up a peaceful political rally of fellow Muslims for the sin of disagreeing with him, if that is Islam, I will fight to the death not to convert to it or any shade of it.

  •  Typical Cowardly Solution, Surrender! (1+ / 2-)
    Recommended by:
    Yacka Jah Yacka
    Hidden by:
    pontechango, trashablanca

    That is why you perverts, pansies, cowards and traitors will never be given the chance to run this Country. So sit down, shut up and just go back to you mental masturbation. We are on the verge of just locking all you animals up

    •  I'm fed up with vitriolic schmucks like you (0+ / 0-)

      We are on the verge of just locking all you animals up

       Who is we, you and your mommy? Come and get me, punk.

      "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." John Lennon

      by trashablanca on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 06:38:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm suspicious. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yacka Jah Yacka

    This seems extreme, even for dKos. But maybe this is just what separates the right from the left.

    Islam, after all, means "submission" and what does the left do all day?

  •  finally someone passes God's test of Christians (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yacka Jah Yacka

    Well done Yacka Jah Yacka. Any Christian who remotely understood the spirit of the bible would do what you've just suggested doing. As part of "love thy enemy", Christians have the ability to defuse this war in the short term simply by converting to Islam, with no skin off anyone's nose. You don't need to change anything at all. Even those extra holidays are not required. You don't need to go to church to be a Christian. You don't need to celebrate Christmas. You don't need to do anything at all.

    This is the solution to the problem with Islam too. It needs to be reformed the same way Christianity was, and who better to do that than Christians, who have learnt the art of spinning all the horrible stuff in the bible such as "stone your own children to death if they are disobedient" into "whatever you do, DON'T stone your own children to death, even if they are disobedient", without batting an eyelid.

    It is ironic that the first (actually, second) person to suggest this turned out to be from the left-wing, and that the right-wing instead dug in their heels and decided they'd rather see every Muslim dead than say 3 little words "I'm a Muslim". Both the left and the right can be so hypocritical, but today it's the right's hypocrisy on display.

    When I pointed this stuff out to the right-wing on LGF, I got banned. So much for their (rightful) condemnation of suppression of freedom of speech in other areas (such as college campuses). Dear oh dear.

  •  Ban this Republican Troll (0+ / 0-)

    I've never seen a more blatant example of trolling by a Republican weasel from LGF or the Free Republic.  "HURR HURR THIS IS HOW LIBERALS THINK LET'S SURRENDER".

    Religion is idiotic, I would never convert to any religion, especially one as restrictive as Islam.

    No boos?  My pale Irish ass would rather burn at the stake.

  •  This is absolutely absurd!!! (0+ / 0-)

    I hope you didn't spend to much time writing this. What a JOKE!!!!

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