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For more on this shocking development, follow me down down down down down... I'll even throw in a real catfight that'll make the much-hyped CNN "(garden)SLUGFEST Slugfest slugfest" look like... the walk in the park that it pretty much was.

Dynasty

A dynasty is a succession of rulers who belong to the same family for generations. A dynasty is also often called a "house", e.g. the House of Saud or House of Habsburg. In the histories of Europe, much of Asia and some of Africa, ruling and noble houses have usually been patrilineal; inheritance and kinship being predominantly viewed and legally calculated through descent from a common ancestor in the male line. Often, however, if the male lineage died out, descendants through females (and sometimes the females themselves) were recognized as entitled to inherit the dynasty's realms and/or wealth.

Dynasty: Alexis and Krystle lily pond catfight

Bush family wiki
Originating in East Orange, New Jersey, the Bush family in the 20th century became an accomplished political family in the United States, including across three generations a U.S. Senator, two Governors, one Vice President and two Presidents. Many other members have been successful bankers and businessmen. George and Barbara Bush have been married for 62 years, holding the record for the longest married presidential couple. Peter Schweizer, author of a biography of the family, has described the Bushes as "the most successful political dynasty in American history."[1] The Bush family is of English, German, Welsh, Irish, and French descent.

  (1863–1948), a close advisor to President Hoover, was president of the Ohio Association of Manufacturers and a major Columbus industrialist.

   * Prescott Bush (1895–1972), Samuel P. Bush's son, served as a US Senator from Connecticut.
   * Dorothy Walker Bush (1901–1992), the wife of Prescott, was the daughter of George Herbert Walker of the well-connected Walker family of bankers and businessmen
         o Prescott Bush, Jr. (born 1922), Prescott Bush's eldest son, served as chairman of the U.S.-China Chamber of Commerce.
         o George H.W. Bush (born 1924), Prescott Bush Sr.'s second son, was the 41st US President, a Congressman from Houston, and CIA director, and also held other political and diplomatic posts. Before his political career he was in the oil business in Texas.
         o Barbara Pierce Bush (born 1925), the daughter of publisher Marvin Pierce, was First Lady of the US and Second Lady of the US during her husband's terms.
           
(a LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG I mean yada yada yada yada yada for eons list of prominent, connected, monied Bushites follows complete with familiy tree for those who can stomach it)

--- whereas ---

Hillary Clinton's wiki page doesn't contain anything remotely like that about her lineage or ancestry. Bill Clinton's early years are also fairly lean.  

William Jefferson Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe III in Hope, Arkansas, and raised in Hot Springs, Arkansas. His father was William Jefferson Blythe, Jr., a traveling salesman, who died in a car accident three months prior to the birth of his son.[1] In 1950, his mother, Virginia Dell Cassidy (1923-1994), married Roger Clinton, a partner with his brother in an automobile dealership.[12]
William Jefferson Blythe III in 1950 at age four. Known at the time as Billy, he did not formally adopt his stepfather's name until aged 14.
William Jefferson Blythe III in 1950 at age four. Known at the time as Billy, he did not formally adopt his stepfather's name until aged 14.

It was not until Billy (as he was known then) turned 14 that he formally adopted his stepfather's surname of Clinton, although he had assumed use of it prior to that. Clinton has said that he remembers his stepfather as a gambler and an alcoholic who regularly abused his mother and, at times, his half-brother, Roger, Jr.

By thew way, the big scary "Clinton dynasty" keywords itself straight back to"clinton dynasty" Erm, the Cato Institute? heh I'm just "shocked, shocked!"

Alright. Why does this matter? Isn't this just semantics?

Uhhhh... uhhhh, uhhhh- NO! It really isn't!

The Clintons are self-made people from humble origins who worked really hard to get where they are. They each earned formal educations most of the world, one that billions of people can only dream of attaining, rising to the top of their fields in a big, big way.

If Chelsea Clinton someday runs for & attains President of the Known World, then you can say dynasty. But for now I'm afraid you'll have to settle for some other word. Not cronyism- Bush has that. Bush has dynasty. Bush has nepotism. Bush- oligarchy, check. You get the idea. The Clintons kind of embody the American Dream in a really neat way whereas the Bush Family is kind of destroying on a daily basis the chance for people to actually go in the direction in which the American Dream was last spotted, looking horribly shaken with all of its belongings hastily thrown into a plastic garbage bag seven years ago?

Please, don't play into this meme of equating the Clintons with the Bush family. You don't have to love them. You don't even have to vote in their direction. But please understand that flawed as they may be, they certainly do not a dynasty make. They're even on the side that believes in government, not in drowning it in a bathtub! Or hurricaine, even.

Yes, I do agree that there is too much power in the hands of too few people in this country, as well as elsewhere in the world. This is a pattern we see exerted throughout history. This is a pattern we are hopefully here to change with the wind of the 50 State Strategy at our backs, etc.

But please. At minimum, don't reinforce the idea that this legacy Clinton is the same as this one Bush

Originally posted to velvetdays on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:36 PM PST.

Poll

Who is your favorite Dynasty character of all?

5%1 votes
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31%6 votes
0%0 votes
15%3 votes
10%2 votes
0%0 votes
5%1 votes
5%1 votes
15%3 votes
0%0 votes
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0%0 votes
5%1 votes
0%0 votes

| 19 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  It's not a dynasty. (3+ / 0-)

    And they have all the same people working for them.  But that's not a Court.

  •  i voted for fallon (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    velvetdays, rasbobbo, jen, Gabriele Droz

    because you could almost see the chunks of cocaine falling out of her nose as she got skinnier and skinnier...she had to be replaced, of course

    i worship burt bacharach

    by memofromturner on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:39:21 PM PST

  •  Poor HIllary (5+ / 0-)

    She started running for president while on third base, and thought she hit a triple.

    If Hillary Clinton wins, the Democratic Party loses.

    by Paleo on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:40:15 PM PST

  •  The problem is that she's a DLCer (5+ / 0-)

    and is so incestuously bound up with the DLC and AIPAC and the neoconservative FDR Democrats inside the Beltway that anything she does is just a continuation of The Problem; and I hardly think it needs to be said that The Problem is the oldest dynasty of all.

    We can only remedy the Clintons' corruption by electing real progressive Democrats to office, ones who have proven their mettle over years and generations of service to Fixing The Problem, like Mark Udall in Colorado and Tom Udall in New Mexico, or Ted Kennedy in Massachusetts.

    I am a "corporatist Democrat."

    by jxg on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:40:50 PM PST

  •  Maybe not a dynasty, but... (9+ / 0-)

    Her team is running a "brand name" campaign.

    And I do believe that there is a "restoration" problem. If she's elected, many of the courtiers from her husband's administration will either hold office or be part of the inner circle. Just as Bush 2.0 brought in hangers-on from his father's administration.

    "I'll rant as well as thou."--Hamlet, Act V, Scene 1.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:44:33 PM PST

  •  Dynasty (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Donna Z, vivens fons

    The Clintons are the de-facto Democratic wing of the Bush family. They've been very close friends for twenty five years, and the DLC is even funded in part by members of the "House of Bush".

    The American people think the best person "to have a beer with" is the former alcoholic.

    by William Domingo on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:52:10 PM PST

  •  So a dynasty is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vivens fons

    like a recession -- you can only see it after you've been entrapped by it?

    Leave the cat alone, for what has the cat done, that you should so afflict it with tape? - Ian Frazier, Lamentations of the Father

    by Frankenoid on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:14:32 PM PST

  •  The Bonapartes came from humble beginnings (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    opendna, vivens fons, mr crabby, hannahlk

    and they didn't rule in succession.  If it wasn't a dynasty, though, how on earth did Louis Bonaparte ever become emperor?

  •  Mr. Bull meet Mr. Shit (5+ / 0-)

    BTW, "Clinton dynasty less bad than Bush dynasty" not going to sway me.

    They're even on the side that believes in government, not in drowning it in a bathtub! Or hurricaine, even.

    Let's cut the crap. Bill was the first, if not the only, Democrat to rush out and defend George W. Bush's miserable-ass post-Katrina fumbling.  And he couldn't contain his joy at being able to hold hands with Bush pere and act his half of a pair "sensible elder statesman."

    At the end of the day, Hillary's primary rhetoric aside, Bill and Hillary just don't seem to have that big of a problem with Bush's governing style.

  •  Dynasty, horrible television... (3+ / 0-)

    Even worse when indulged in as a lifestyle by anyone named Bush.

    Hell, I can't even stomach the baked beans any more.

  •  It's the end of America (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Donna Z, jimG, vivens fons

    12 years of bush's, 12 years of Clinton's = 24 years of corporate rule and governmetnal failure for average working Americans.

  •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jimG

    Please, don't play into this meme of equating the Clintons with the Bush family. You don't have to love them. You don't even have to vote in their direction. But please understand that flawed as they may be, they certainly do not a dynasty make.

    Au contraire.
    You pay so much attention to the Clinton name that you forget his  marriage into an elite that has now become completely politicized and corrupt.
    Bill Clinton is a new man, a self-made man.
    Hillary Clinton is old money through and through.
    Their social connections with the Bushes are readily apparent.
    And where there are social connections, political interests follow quickly.
    That's not CT, and it's not idle suspicion.
    That's history.
    The Bushes are a dynasty.
    Definitely.  Sine dubio.

    •  Hillary? Old money? (4+ / 0-)

      From La Hill's Wiki entry:

      Hillary Diane Rodham was born at Edgewater Hospital in Chicago, Illinois, and was raised in a United Methodist family, first in Chicago, and then, from the age of three, in suburban Park Ridge, Illinois. Her father, Hugh Ellsworth Rodham, was a son of Welsh and English immigrants and operated a small but successful business in the textile industry. Her mother, Dorothy Emma Howell, of English, Scottish, French Canadian, Welsh, and possibly Native American descent, was a homemaker. She has two younger brothers, Hugh and Tony.

      No mention of old money here, and it sounds like her family was typically middle class.

    •  Hillary is 'old money'? (4+ / 0-)

      What is your source for this statement? Her father sewed commercials draperies for a living. He had a small one man shop in Chicago. Her grandfathers were paternal: a lace mill worker and maternal: a chauffer. Looking over this list there are coal miners, polishers, harness makers. But there is nothing that looks like 'old money'.

      I realize the Edwards people are desparate, but this goes too far. Your statement is an outright lie.

      •  So is she the granddaughter (0+ / 0-)

        of a mill worker like Edwards is the son of one?  She should say that at the next debate..."I know what John Edwards is talking about since I have seen the issues that trade workers face every day since my grandfather and father worked in those industries". I don't think most know anything about that.

        "Bill O'Reilly: The worse person in the world...now and for all time...although Ann Coulter is a close second"

        by concernednyer2005 on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 05:42:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  All it takes is a simple google (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JamieG from Md

          to find out about anyone in public life. Finding this took me about 25 seconds. When the attacks on Hillary began, I started googling to learn more about her. And soon saw that mosts of the attacks are fantasies or plain lies.

    •  um- that is nutters. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      opendna, JamieG from Md

      I grew up in the next zip code over- trust me, it's coal cracker territory.  Ask Biden, he's from the same area.

      Hillary Clinton's Father Is Buried On a Hillside in His Hometown

      By IVER PETERSON,
      Published: April 11, 1993

      Hugh E. Rodham was buried today after a service at the Methodist church where his daughter, Hillary Rodham Clinton, was baptized as a child.

      The Rev. Jeffrey Hale of the Court Street United Methodist Church led the private, hourlong service, and President Clinton spoke briefly. After the service, the President and Mrs. Clinton followed the hearse carrying Mr. Rodham's coffin to the Washburn Street Cemetery, on the western slope in this valley town, where Mr. Rodham bought a family plot in 1952.

      Several hundred residents of the north Scranton neighborhood where Mr. Rodham spent his boyhood lined the street outside the Romanesque brick church, hoping for a glimpse of the President and Mrs. Clinton. Followed by several vans carrying guests, the Clintons arrived at 2:15 P.M., a half-hour after a hearse carrying the coffin pulled up.

      Mr. Rodham, who died Wednesday in Little Rock, Ark., at 82, was born in Scranton and lived on Diamond Avenue, a block and half from the church. As a young man, he joined his father as a worker at the Scranton Lace Company.

    •  Okay. (0+ / 0-)

      If she isn't old money, then why has she turned her back on protecting the middle and working classes?
      It's obvious that for several generations, her family has subsisted very comfortably on one wage earner in the house.
      I think those days are truly over.
      And I think she helped make that more desperate world we live in.

  •  I'm sorry but (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jimG, Sybil Liberty

    I honestly think you're missing the point of people who talk about the prospect of Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.

    The objection is, that we are having the highest office in the land--our head of state--being supplied by members of two immediate families, within a short period of time. Ancestry really has nothing to do with it.

    Many consider this to be a distinctly un-American trend, more reminiscent of the monarchies or oligarchies of other countries. It is certainly unprecedented in our own nation's history (despite attempts to cite "precedents" like the Kennedy family--which only produced one president--or the Roosevelts, who shared the same last name but were only distantly related. The only previous instance of presidents from the same family is the Adams',who served about 25 years apart, with  individuals from many other families in between.)

    •  you are describing something other than a dynasty (0+ / 0-)

      though. Oligarchy? The point is not at all lost on me.

      It's more complex than dynasty, how power moves & is cultivated & passed - not just here but all around us- think of a honeybee colony. Always a triangle.

      Why does it seem like humanity just keeps plugging away building all these pyramids & temples over & over again only to see them fall anyway?! Why do we see the same power structure & pecking order recreated endlessly from kindergarten to Kyoto?

      The Virtuous Circle is not the same as The Vicious Circle.

      •  the gilded age (0+ / 0-)

        We've tossed the towel on ever achieving the American Dream?...the greatest challenge...keeping the doors of opportunity open for all "...are we moving towards a gilded age? leading to an empire?...an empire that's hereditary?"

        Right again, sir!

        There wasn't all that much that was 'virtuous' during the 'gilded age' was there? not where the 'proletariat' was concerned. It does pay to look beyond the end of one's nose tho...like, if we keep doing the inevitable, electing and re-electing the 'first-families' then whose will be the next, um, family-regime? (sort of evil connotations in that word too, huh?)

        none dare call it a "dynasty", stupid? Politically incorrect you feel? Seems you're picking fly-specks from pepper, since most people aren't really comparing bush's to Clinton's in terms of evil-degree when they refer to "the political dynasties".

        "The Peoples' Dukes" then, does that work better for you?

        In choosing a nominee, what road do we go down then? (assuming we have anything to say about it)

        ...and btw, hillary was not the mill-keeper's daughter

        •  right (0+ / 0-)

          it was her grandfather & her father was a lace worker who grew up a zip code away from where I did, in coal cracker territory.

          By the way, all are in sad agreement that we did not get a legit grass roots candidate. So I can throw my vote away, or I can trust Wes Clark's considered judgment. Apparently you know more than he does. ? So keep on keeping on, keep needling, keep working against our best hope to see him actively involved.

          Stop acting as if the Clintons are identicons of the Bush family for starters & perhaps you could entertain the notion that there are a lot of other entities & dynamics responsible for the new Gilded Age. They are a product of the times & the next incarnation of the same old new world order seems signficantly scarier to me with the newbies or Rs in play.

          Seems unlikely that they were able to single-handedly create this Gilded Age from Hope, Arkansas.

          •  Of course, (0+ / 0-)

            the General knows plenty that I don't know. That was never the question.

            Are the bush's more evil, the Clintons less? That was never the question.

            Hillary playing to her own roots as 'the mill-keepers-daughter'? That was never a question either.

            What frightens you about the path down which we tred in America is significantly different than what frightens me, and thassokay-fine, becuz afterall, this is still barely-America. And if you find pitching a tantrum at the use of the word 'dynasty' when it refers to the establishment of cyclical 2-family governance, have at it.

            But you have yet to raise the question.

            Wes Clark has.

            •  homefires (0+ / 0-)

              I've been hanging out on the same board you have for what- four years? And the semantic game is getting equally tiring.
              You can call it the People's Dukes or whatever the pet phrase is.

              There are degrees of gray, etc. If you want to equate them, equate them.

              I  have a feeling that many of the things we both fear about America & otherwise are cookie cutter identical- so why not stop riding me, since I'm on your side?

              There's nowhere to go, Sybil.

              I support the person Wes endorsed. So we can either keep the homefire burning, or not. I didn't stay involved because I thought there was an idea end state we could actually get to. A

              t some point pragmatism has to step to the plate.

              I'm not going to pretend my vote is precious, or even countable, but my voice is. And so is  yours. So is there any possible way we could agree to table this? Let's agree to disagree.

              •  love to, (0+ / 0-)

                but I didn't post this diary velvet, you did.

                See, it wouldn't have mattered who posted your diary, I would have felt compelled to weigh in. It's that much of an issue in my view and has been for a long while, no matter the names of the recycle-first families or who endorsed whom.  

                table it if you so desire

                it cuts both ways

                •  your point is (0+ / 0-)

                  what, exactly? That the Clintons are now well connected? Have I ever disputed that? I think the only point I've been trying to make is that there is a huge difference in the way the Clintons arrived at their good fortune as opposed to being of the manor born.

                  I didn't post this at CCN partially to avoid a similar conversation since it seems to fail to evolve. Since we mostly agree on the overall critique I don't understand why we're going round & round & round with it.

                  This is hardly the death knell in & of itself of American democracy & why this stands out as a sticking point in the landscape we both know we share more than others just eludes me.  

  •  Claudia Blaisdell, of course (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    velvetdays

    The Chicago Ritz Carlton (owned by the Four Seasons) at Water Tower is itself a testament to Claudia's own La Mirage (minus the fire of course)

    As for a Dynasty, if it was Chelsea as a front-runner, there might be some merit to the argument.

    "Doesn't everybody want to play hopscotch, bake cookies and watch the McLaughlin Group?" - Lisa Simpson

    by OneCharmingBastard on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:54:44 PM PST

  •  If you think Hillary would be (0+ / 0-)

    where she is now if she was not married to Bill,  you have lost touch with reality.  Bill was upwardly mobile by his own efforts.  A great American success story.  The only reason Hillary has a reasonable chance to be president is that her husband is an ex-president.  I see little difference between her and the current occupant of the office.  If his father was not a former president, he would have never been considered.  It is very bad for democracy to have elected offices become a family affair. It is bad enough when the republicans do it but it goes completely against the ideals of the Democratic party.

    eschew obfuscation

    by jimG on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 05:19:35 PM PST

  •  no, it's a stupid dynasty (0+ / 0-)

    but it all depends on what the meaning of it's is..

    History is a comedy to those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel. --Henry Walpole

    by Zacapoet on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 05:49:17 PM PST

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