Daily Kos

Demonizing immigration didn't do the trick

Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:01:10 PM PDT

Republicans are pinning their 2008 hopes on the same thing they pinned their 2007 hopes -- demonizing scary brown people. But as I noted yesterday (despite some disagreement), and as noted by Roll Call's Morton Kondracke (subscription only) the issue simply didn't prove electoral gold for the GOP.

For the umpteenth time, American voters this year have rejected a nativist approach to illegal immigration. It ought to be a warning to Republicans: Don’t make this your 2008 wedge issue.

Election results on Tuesday, especially in Virginia and New York state, also should encourage nervous Democrats that they can support comprehensive immigration reform — stronger enforcement plus earned legalization — and prevail.

To temper legitimate concern in the country about the local burdens resulting from failure of the U.S. government to control its borders, both parties in Congress should extend federal “impact aid” to communities whose schools and health facilities are especially affected.

Polling on immigration consistently shows that large majorities of Americans — two-thirds, in a September ABC survey — believe the U.S. is not doing enough to curb illegal immigration, but that almost as many, 58 percent in that poll, support allowing illegal immigrants to earn their way to legal status.

However, a fervent minority — figured at a third of Republicans in one private poll — opposes “amnesty” and has had its views amplified by right-wing radio talk-show hosts. Republicans in Congress have bowed to the pressure, and GOP presidential candidates increasingly are pandering, as well.

Even though past election results overwhelmingly indicate that enforcement-only campaigns don’t succeed — indeed, by offending Hispanics, pose a long-term threat to the GOP — Republicans seem bent on making illegal immigration a centerpiece of their 2008 campaigns.

Demonizing New Englanders, gays, blacks, and women -- and losing their long-term support -- isn't enough for those guys. The GOP is about to shoot themselves in the foot with the Latino community (and other immigrant groups) in the long term for a strategy that doesn't even work in the short term.

Democrats shouldn't follow them there. Here's another issue in which doing the right thing also happens to be good short- and long-term politics.

  • ::

Tags: Immigration, 2007, 2008 (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 356 comments

  •  Hey Kos, how about some kudos for Kucinich? (11+ / 0-)

    He's lighting a progressive fire under the Democratic leadership's collective ass these days.

    Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 01:59:55 PM PDT

  •  and with the Shuler/Bilbay bill and alliance (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    buckhorn okie, BobOak, fabucat

    with the Dems/GOP joining in this immigration bill ...they cannot use this to go after Democrats.
    As I saw Shuler and Bilbay discussing their bipartisan alliance on stricter enforcement.

    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

    by wishingwell on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:00:27 PM PDT

    •  i might not agree with Shuler (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      buckhorn okie, DKHOLLA

      on joining in with crazy Bilbay but being on Lou Dobbs together ( and as disgusting as Dobbs is, he has a lot of Independents who are fans of his as Dobb is an Independent who hates Democrats and Republicans...at least they cannot make this partisan.
      There can be crazy obsessed illegal aliens are taking over the country people are all sides of the political spectrum this way...if that makes sense.

      Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

      by wishingwell on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:03:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bilbray beat his Democratic opponent (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        DKHOLLA, blindyone

        on this issue.

        •  She helped beat herself on the issue (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          importer

          but that is beside the point.

          The frogurt is also cursed. -8.25, -6.51

          by Superribbie on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:30:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Come On! (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Fredly

          That's a deep, deep, red district. Duke was clearly a crook, but Bilbray couldn't be expected to be hurt by association by simply being an R. I'd venture any D would have a hard time winning the district regardless of the immigration debate.

          Don't buy into the R scare tactics on this issue. What hurts Ds is the perception that they don't have backbone, and don't stand for anything. Caving in on immigration as Rahm suggests would only add to this appearance. We don't have to be scared by this issue.

          "There's no housing bubble..." - Fed Chief Ben Bernanke, 10/27/2005

          by chuco35 on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 06:38:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  agreed, agreed (0+ / 0-)

            In regard to immigration policy and comprehensive reform with a path to citizenship....

            First, it's the right thing to do from a human rights perspective. Dems are the party that stand for diversity and fair treatment of all people, especially those who are the least powerful in our society.

            Second, for Dems it will secure support from the immigrant communities for doing the right thing, growing our base and securing strong support for the future.

            Harry Taylor for Congress, Courage is Contagious

            by Fredly on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 08:17:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Alfredo's comment (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mariachi mama

      This is an example of the danger I see in my previous entry.

  •  Agreed (8+ / 0-)

    And don't you think demonizing immigrants would hurt the GOP candidates in Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, and Florida. That's pretty much the election right there.

    I'd really like to hear a strong pro-immigrant statement from at least of the Dems next debate.

  •  I think it's regional (4+ / 0-)

    I think it is a sore spot in New Mexico, Arizona and parts of California (mostly southern) where smuggling related activities have resulted in serious violence.

    "You know, God bless him, bless his heart, president of the United States, a total failure."

    by RandySF on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:02:32 PM PDT

    •  The Republicans tried to demagogue immigration (9+ / 0-)

      in CA 15-20 years ago. They've lost the state pretty much forever.

      Daily Kos used to be worthwhile.

      by andgarden on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:03:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah but (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        buckhorn okie

        I think we lost the CA-50 special election on immigration.

        "You know, God bless him, bless his heart, president of the United States, a total failure."

        by RandySF on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:05:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Really? (11+ / 0-)

          I think we lost it because of this:

          Dem - 107,473 (29.62%)
          Rep - 158,349 (43.64%)
          Other - 97,004 (26.74%)

          Daily Kos used to be worthwhile.

          by andgarden on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:08:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  thank you (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            andgarden

            damn, some people just don't pay attention.  

            FWIW, 90% of that "other" are registered Independents who feel that Republicans are not conservative enough.  It's an interesting place to live, CA-50 is.

            They're calling our bluff and all we're holding is a Pelosi and a Hoyer.

            by arbiter on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:32:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  No, we didn't... (6+ / 0-)

          I WORKED CA-50 FOR FRANCINE BUSBY last year, so I can tell you with plenty of confidence that WE DID NOT LOSE ON IMMIGRATION. We lost last year because we didn't bring the corruption issue home by showing HOW local voters lost out by Cunningham's and Bilbray's corruption.
          •  interesting argument (0+ / 0-)

            one that I never heard during the election - at all.  

            Not that I think it would have made a difference - if Duke had been on the ballot he would have won from inside his jail cell.  Voters here are batshit insane.

            They're calling our bluff and all we're holding is a Pelosi and a Hoyer.

            by arbiter on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:34:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's One Thing To Say Bilbray's A Crook (0+ / 0-)

              It's another to say Bilbray is one.

              The election was lost because the district is better than 2 to 1 R, and not because of not pressing the corruption issue, and certainly not because of the immigration issue enough, IMHO. Certainly pushing the corruption issue was the way to go, but it couldn't overcome the deep shade of red the Ds were dealing with in the districe..

              "There's no housing bubble..." - Fed Chief Ben Bernanke, 10/27/2005

              by chuco35 on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 06:48:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  you could not be more wrong (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          andgarden

          we lost the election because of simple demographics.  There are far more Republicans in my district than Dems and that's not going to change anytime soon.

          They're calling our bluff and all we're holding is a Pelosi and a Hoyer.

          by arbiter on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:26:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes and no (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            importer, blindyone

            it is a tough district, but Busby was leading for much of the race and probably would have won were it not for the gaffe where she got confused and appeared to tell non-citizens that they could go vote.  Bilbray ran his whole campaign on immigration, rather than taxes or defense, and made much hay out of the Busby incident.  I don't think it's a stretch to say "we lost the CA-50 election on immigration."

            Now, what may lose us a shot at a single conservative Orange County Congressional district may well win us far greater dividends elsewhere.

            The frogurt is also cursed. -8.25, -6.51

            by Superribbie on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:37:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  holy shit...wow (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              diplomatic
              First, it's not Orange County, which answers my question about whether you live here or not, obviously you don't.

              Secondly, Busby was NEVER ahead.  "The gaffe" was only a couple of days before the election and it made no difference by that point.

              Christ, fucking revisionism.  We didn't lose it on immigration.  Get your head out of your ass and pay attention to someone who has lived here for 36 years, for God's sake.

              They're calling our bluff and all we're holding is a Pelosi and a Hoyer.

              by arbiter on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:59:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sorry, (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                BobOak

                "single conservative San Diego county district".  Better?

                You don't have to be local to follow elections--as I did in the CA-50 special.

                Sometimes, even if you are, you miss stuff.  Like the part of the campaign where Busby was ahead, or at least even.  http://alittlereality.blogspot.com/...  Note the statement about the initial GOP poll giving Busby a six point lead.  SurveyUSA, for its part had the race 45-45.  So, to say that the gaffe "made no difference" is simply incredible.

                Also, was or was not Bilbray's campaign on immigration?  He was listed as an "immigration reform consultant" on the primary ballot--over the objection of the other Republicans.  During the runoff, he attacked Busby on the issue relentlessly.  After he won, he said "he believed his long focus on illegal immigration would pay off."

                Also, it's a crock to simply point to the generic GOP edge in the district and throw up your hands and say "unwinnable so what was said in the campaign is irrelevant."  Dems hold several more Republican districts, including CO-03 (Salazar), GA-08 (Marshall), IL-08 (Bean), IN-08 (Ellsworth), IN-09 (Sodrel), LA-03 (Melancon), KS-02 (Boyda), KY-06 (Chandler), MN-07 (Peterson), MO-04 (Skelton), MS-04 (Taylor), NC-11 (Shuler), ND-AL (Pomeroy), OH-18 (Space), PA-10 (Carney), PA-17 (Holden), SD-AL (Herseth), TX-17 (Edwards), TX-22 (Lampson), UT-02 (Matheson), VA-09 (Boucher), and WV-01 (Mollohan).

                But thanks for the profane local perspective.  

                The frogurt is also cursed. -8.25, -6.51

                by Superribbie on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 04:19:48 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I bow to your superior knowledge (0+ / 0-)

                  After all, you read it on a website, so your MUST know more than the locals.  

                  It was only a race between Brian Bilbray and my sister's Girl Scout Troop leader, who lives ten houses down the street from me, so what would I know?  I must not have that much needed "out-of-town perspective" that you possess in spades.

                  I'll call you next time I need to know what's going on my own neighborhood.

                  They're calling our bluff and all we're holding is a Pelosi and a Hoyer.

                  by arbiter on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 06:08:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  You are assuming that Republicans (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            DKHOLLA

            ...are just fine with their reps being corrupt thieves....

            You might be right but American history does not back you up on this.

            Corruption has always motivated the voters to throw the incumbents out.

            'I'm writing as Nestor since scoop in it's awesome wisdom won't let me use my real screen name: A.Citizen'

            by Nestor Makhnow on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:37:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  People may not be comfortable with their corrupt (0+ / 0-)

              representation, but they still need to get a paycheck.  

              Cunningham was bringing $$$$ into his district to keep the wheels greased.

              •  very true (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                importer
                A bloated, corrupt alcoholic shitbag (and yes, it was obvious to everyone here for decades) didn't keep his seat for so long for no reason - he brought in enough money and said enough of the right things to keep my neighbors happy and the votes coming in every two years.

                They're calling our bluff and all we're holding is a Pelosi and a Hoyer.

                by arbiter on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 03:04:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  And clearly racial (11+ / 0-)

      No one talks about illegal Russians, Irish or even Filipinos (TNT as they say in my gf's home country) who are here illegally. It's clearly anti-Latino sentiment.

      "You know, God bless him, bless his heart, president of the United States, a total failure."

      by RandySF on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:04:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They used to... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        atdnext, Miles in WesternWA

        Back when there were large groups of Irish, Italian, and Eastern European immigrants, the rhetoric about them was basically the same as it is about the current influx.  They don't talk about them now, because the groups you mention are relatively small pieces of the illegal immigration pie, which is overwhelmingly Hispanic.

        •  Not in the same way or to the same extent (5+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          jxg, chuco35, esquimaux, Pometacom, davidseth

          Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, and even Chinese wound up forcibly excluded from a great many communities across the US.  That didn't happen to any meaningful extent with white-looking immigrants -- even ones whose primary language was German rather than English.

          •  Oh You Mean Like Apertheid? n/t (0+ / 0-)

            "There's no housing bubble..." - Fed Chief Ben Bernanke, 10/27/2005

            by chuco35 on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 06:51:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Take a look at Sundown Towns (0+ / 0-)

              You'll notice that there are no blacks in many towns in the northern and western US.  This isn't an accident of historical dispersal -- nearly all those communities violently expelled their minorities, and in many cases actively enforced that expulsion into the 1970s.   There's a book, Sundown Towns which documents this in incredible detail.  I think you'll find it worth your while to read it.

      •  Oh, and, (0+ / 0-)

        I agree that it's racial.  But racism is always relative.

      •  There's 10 Million Illegal Irish???? (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        BobOak, arbiter

        I lose work to illegal Irish immigrants and I don't see remotely comparable numbers.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:17:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  news to me (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Superribbie

          damn green people with their leprachauns and beer.

          They're calling our bluff and all we're holding is a Pelosi and a Hoyer.

          by arbiter on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:28:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Not so many (0+ / 0-)

          But there are illegals from Eaurope along the East Coast.

          "You know, God bless him, bless his heart, president of the United States, a total failure."

          by RandySF on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:43:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There's A Shitload Of Illegal Irish... (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            diplomatic, Miles in WesternWA

            ...in this country. You see them everywhere -- in San Francisco, LA, Miami, Boston, and scattered throughout the US. They come in easily as tourists, and simply overstay.

            Please Lord, we'll take the beaners and their cousins, but not the Irish!

            "There's no housing bubble..." - Fed Chief Ben Bernanke, 10/27/2005

            by chuco35 on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 06:56:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Chuco.... (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              diplomatic

              I'm not from Chicago or Boston or any large Irish-American ethnic hubs, but I have heard of what you speak.  These guys do have to lurk around and work in the shadows from what I've heard.

              But without a doubt they have two things going for them that Mexican illegals don't: 1) white skin 2) English-language fluency

              The 3rd thing they have that Mexicans lack is a power-base in this country.  

              Irish-Americans have made it all the way to the White House!!  This is not a poor ethnic group anymore, and like other groups they try to take care of their own.

              I imagine that Irish-American contractors and other businessmen will make room for their "cousins" in a way that can't happen for Mexican border-crossers.  This is all speculation on my part, but if true, I can see why Latinos would call "Racism!"  And they would be justified too.

        •  There's not 10 million (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Miles in WesternWA

          but the numbers of illegal Irish are actually quite sizeable.

      •  Stop it, Randy! (3+ / 0-)

        No one talks about illegal Russians, Irish or even Filipinos (TNT as they say in my gf's home country) who are here illegally. It's clearly anti-Latino sentiment.

        Randy, please don't hype the issue with BS.

        The issue is Latino-focused because we share a 1,000+ mile land border with an impoverished Latin-American country with massive corruption, inequality of wealth-distribution, racism by a Caucasian elite against a colored majority and pervasive economic mismanagement -- including the NAFTA treaty organized by our very own Clintons, which has devastated Mexico's poor.

        If the Philippines were still a U.S. Territory (as they used to be) and Filipinos could migrate here to the mainland without restrictions, the uproar would engulf Filipinos as well.

        This is first and foremost about labor economics!

        •  Miles is against all immigration, period. (0+ / 1-)

          Hidden by:
          BobOak

          He shows up here to make false, unsubstantiated claims that ultimately would require the country's borders to be 100 percent closed. He changes his arguments as soon as they are shot down. Miles is convinced all of the problems of the U.S. are due to one cause  -- Mexicans -- and there are no other causes. Immigration is Miles' hammer and every problem he sees is a nail.

          •  This is weak. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            BobOak

            He changes his arguments as soon as they are shot down. Miles is convinced all of the problems of the U.S. are due to one cause  -- Mexicans -- and there are no other causes.

            1. You haven't shot a single argument down, Pometacom.  One reason you have difficulty doing so, is your fundamental lack of understanding of labor economics.
            1. I have nothing against Mexicans, and have enjoyed visiting Mexico and attending school with Mexican-American classmates and professors.
            1. Dude, you seriously need to get a clue.
            •  It's Not About Labor Economics. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Fredly

              It's about human, including worker's, rights, xenophobia, and racism. In fact, it is the astroturf, right-wing bred 'research' labor economic studies which are being used to justify violating human, including worker's, rights, and promoting racist and xenophobic agendas.

              "There's no housing bubble..." - Fed Chief Ben Bernanke, 10/27/2005

              by chuco35 on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 07:04:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Chuco35... (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                BobOak

                Hey, man...  we have clashed before.  I hope we see each others point of view.

                1. Are some anti-illegal activists racist and xenophobic?  Yes!  If I see a Rebel flag flying at some rally, that's enough for me.  I would call racism too.
                1. Do I fly a Rebel flag or consider Mexicans inferior?  Absolutely not!!
                1. Do I want to kick out all undocumented workers?  Absolutely not!  Mexicans, Irish, Czechs and whoever else should get an amnesty provision.  All those who haven't committed crimes here and who don't have criminal records back in the Old Country should be eligible.

                I hope I'm a little more clear.  I do think that some variation of #3 will wind up being passed.

    •  It works in GA and some of the rust belt (7+ / 0-)

      Economically depressed areas are vulnerable to this. In my state (CT) Danbury is a hotbed of anti- immigrant feeling.

      It's kind of silly really. Your union machinist job left the country and you take it out on some Mexican cutting lawns in your town?

      However, I can understand why people who hang drywall and frame houses are pissed off. And its only going to get worse as the housing crisis deepens.

      What did you do with the cash Joe?

      by roguetrader2000 on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:10:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Maybe the numbers are there for (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      diplomatic, atdnext

      serious violence in Arizona and California but I am not seeing them here in New Mexico.  We are a very unique state when it comes to immigration.  I think an anti-immigration stance from any of our elected officials will open up pandora's box...and not in a good way for the politician involved.

      Not the church. Not the state. Women will decide their fate.

      by JaciCee on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:16:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I live in Southern California... (6+ / 0-)

        And I don't see all this "immigrant caused violence" that the wingnuts claim is happening either. Now I do see a gang violence problem in the inner cities, and some of it may be caused by Central American gangs, but I see most of it caused by thugs who've been here their whole lives. Meanwhile, I see a lot of hardworking immigrant families who struggle to survive, yet never complain about their poverty... But they're still being demonized by all these anti-immigrant bigots just for existing.
        •  I haven't been impressed with the (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          chuco35, diplomatic, TexMex, Pometacom

          "numbers" I have seen.  Our Hispanic (this term encompasses so much more in this state) population is large so our crime rates are going to reflect the actual population we actually have.  

          Every immigrant I know works their ass off to pay the rent and put food on their table.  

          Not the church. Not the state. Women will decide their fate.

          by JaciCee on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:34:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  It's a Sore Spot.. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      BobOak

      in Iowa, too. I think it's a sore spot all over the country. I'm tired of Kos and others implying I'm a racist, especially when they vacation in Greece and sip Cuba Libres in the Carribean, while working men and women lose their pensions and work for peanuts. I'm so sick of the elitist bullsh*t on this issue.

      •  It is my belief that the conventional wisdom (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        importer, BobOak, blindyone

        Will be overturned.

        The Democratic Party candidates (and their pundits) have memorized two lines very well:

        -- The Republicans are anti-immigrant
        -- I support 'comprehensive immigration reform'

        But once they get outside of the margins of those two memorized lines, they don't really do to well on the issue.

        If you can't even define the difference between legal and illegal immigration in your talking point, and you can't even begin to explain what 'comprehensive immigration reform' means -- I would suggest you have problems -- especially given that these two lines don't play to well on the stump.

        I also find it odd that Democrats who have been saying for more than two years now that illegal immigration is not an issue for the Democrats now find themselves discussing that very issue on the front page of the Daily Kos.

        The Democrats will get pummeled on this issue during the General Election, they passed the Peru 'free trade' agreement this morning. Their hypocrisy on illegal immigration when it comes to NAFTA will be brought home to roost with respect to these new 'free trade' deals.

        Watch It Happen.

        If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

        by superscalar on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 03:27:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Midwest blue, you are a bigot. (0+ / 1-)

        Hidden by:
        BobOak

        You do a very poor job of concealing it. Coming up with some cogent analysis might help. And please, how do Mexicans cause "working men and women" to lose their pensions ? I didn't know there was a difference between Mexican workers and "working men and women." Sounds like the same group to me. Or is it ?

        •  Supply and Demand (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          BobOak, Miles in WesternWA

          If there's an abundance of labor, those doing the hiring can lower wages, because they have a larger labor pool from which to draw.
          You, sir or madam, cross a line when you accuse people of bigotry. I wonder if you grew up during the fifties or the civil rights movement. If you didn't, you have no idea what a bigot really is. I believe all people are created equal and are to be treated with respect and dignity. That does not mean I will give away my home, my livelihood, and my standard of living to noncitizens or anyone else. It's insanity to do that.
          Care a little more for the common good of this country....and quit your childish name-calling.

          •  Civility is important (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            BobOak

            Care a little more for the common good of this country....and quit your childish name-calling.

            I'll give a rec just for that, midwestblue, although I don't agree totally with your position.  My biggest beef is with the illegal immigrant crowd.

            After that comes name-calling on blogs! ;-)  I've vowed never to Troll-Rate anyone, but Pometacom really tempted me.

    •  What is regional? (0+ / 0-)

      I haven't heard of this serious violence you talk about in New Mexico.

      I have no idea what your comment means to say.

      GBCW: I'm sick of the negativity.

      by maop on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 11:06:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  someone tell ed schultz... (9+ / 0-)

    he was going on today about how it was the most important issue in next year's election and how it would be the downfall of the democrats because so many americans were so incredibly worked up about illegal immigrants

    he should look at any issues poll and see where that one lands

    from bulgaria, with love

    by memofromturner on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:02:32 PM PDT

    •  Schultz is way off base a lot of the time... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mjd in florida, atdnext

      ...but he took it to Representative Wasserman-Schultz (D-FL20) today on Impeachment.

      And it was a beautiful thing.

    •  Schultz Is Attempting to Carve Out Commercial (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      diplomatic, BobOak, blindyone

      bluecollar progressive radio niche.

      I think he's dead right about the sentiment in his niche. I certainly find a great deal of it in those circles.

      Email him some compelling data. I think he's the top drawing progressive talker, if he's that wrong we need him more up to date.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:15:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, Ed Schultz is just plain WRONG... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      diplomatic
      On immigration. Now don't get me wrong, I agree with him on a lot of other issues and have plenty of respect for him overall. But still, I think Big Ed has been too quick to jump on the Lou Dobbs "blame immigrants for everything" bandwagon. Americans have far more complicated views on immigration than these folks want to admit, and none of the anti-immigrant folks wants to admit that these immgrants contribute so much to our society.
      •  his commentary seemed to strongly suggest (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        chuco35

        that the republicans had a cogent position that was "right" and that they were going to use it as a club against the dems who were flailing about for a policy, but are somehow "wrong"...

        he's missing the fact that the repubs are badly split on the issue and are taking the worst of it...the two factions of the repub party are diametrically opposed on the issue: the money wing needs the cheap labor to juice their bottom line, while the angry white-male wing hates mexicans et al for "taking our jobs"...

        the democrats should craft a policy, but i think they are in a better position to do so because there isn't such an ideological split amongst them

        from bulgaria, with love

        by memofromturner on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:53:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'll say again (6+ / 0-)

    that I'm all for allowing the Republicans to be the party of dixie. We already know that they are, but it would help to tell the midwest and west about it.

    Daily Kos used to be worthwhile.

    by andgarden on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:02:39 PM PDT

  •  Wolf! (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, atdnext

    Repeat...

    And still, folks like Rove are revered.

    :::::

    •  Wolf is delusional (3+ / 0-)

      and he appears to be afflicted with delusions and amnesia and in a coma the rest of the time.

      Tweety is obsessed with Hillary and in love with Rudy.

      Scarborough is obsessed with how he is the only true conservative in the world and how the Fundies rule the earth.

      CNN just repeats what Fox Noise says and Fox Noise is too crammed up Bush's butt to see anything else.

      Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

      by wishingwell on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 02:06:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Rove was not pushing the immigration thing (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by: