Daily Kos

Martin Luther King and The Moral Imperative For Polarization

Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 08:01:54 AM PDT

Cross-posted from Open Left.

Polarization is the great evil, the great scourge of our times.  All our great authorities tell us so.

All our great authorities are wrong.

Polarization is not a great evil, so long as great evil lives in our land.  This was a primary message of one of Martin Luther King's most famous writings, his "Letter from Birmingham Jail" [PDF].

Indeed, King himself was one of the most polarizing figures of American history, and his entire career consisted of polarizing public opinion, breaking down apathy and comfortable indifference in the face of great evils-racism, poverty and war.  Those evils are still with us today, though in differing guises and proportions, and yet we not only hear repeated calls for unity, for rejecting polarization, we see King himself obscenely misrepresented as a harmless, Santa Claus-like figure of fuzzy-headed unity.  It is hard to conceive of a greater insult to his memory.

King's letter is one of the most remarkable pieces of literature in history.  It is, in its essence, the testament of an entire movement, a struggle for justice by an oppressed people within the world's most powerful empire.  It stands in significance next to the words of Moses, whose example was one of enduring sources of strength in that struggle.

The letter from eight white clergymen he was responding to is in no wise comparable.  Yet, it is worth noting in detail, because it so faithfully represents what has once again come to be the conventional wisdom of our age.  We need to see ourselves clearly in the mirror of their words, to bring home forcefully that when King was writing from Birmingham Jail, we were not their with him, however much we might like to imagine that. No.  We were the ones he was writing to.

That is our shame and our situation today.

The White Clergymen's Letter

The letter from eight white clergymen was eminently reasonable. Sober. Serious. Measured. Evil to the core:

We the undersigned clergymen are among those who, in January, issued "an appeal for law and order and common sense," in dealing with racial problems in Alabama. We expressed understanding that honest convictions in racial matters could properly be pursued in the courts, but urged that decisions of those courts should in the meantime be peacefully obeyed.

How perfectly reasonable!

Since that time there had been some evidence of increased forbearance and a willingness to face facts. Responsible citizens have undertaken to work on various problems which cause racial friction and unrest. In Birmingham, recent public events have given indication that we all have opportunity for a new constructive and realistic approach to racial problems.

How encouraging.  Why in a decade or two, no one will remember there was ever a problem!

However, we are now confronted by a series of demonstrations by some of our Negro citizens, directed and led in part by outsiders. We recognize the natural impatience of people who feel that their hopes are slow in being realized. But we are convinced that these demonstrations are unwise and untimely.

Outsiders!  What could possibly be more polarizing?  Them!

We agree rather with certain local Negro leadership which has called for honest and open negotiation of racial issues in our area. And we believe this kind of facing of issues can best be accomplished by citizens of our own metropolitan area, white and Negro, meeting with their knowledge and experience of the local situation. All of us need to face that responsibility and find proper channels for its accomplishment.

Because that had worked out so well for the preceeding 80-odd-years, right?  Kicking out the federal troops in 1877 just worked wonders for "racial issues."

Just as we formerly pointed out that "hatred and violence have no sanction in our religious and political traditions," we also point out that such actions as incite to hatred and violence, however technically peaceful those actions may be, have not contributed to the resolution of our local problems. We do not believe that these days of new hope are days when extreme measures are justified in Birmingham.

"[H]atred and violence have no sanction in our religious and political traditions"?  Oh, really?

Isn't the discourse of conventional wisdom a wonder to behold, in whatever age?  And the dismissal of "technically peaceful" actions?  Classic!

We commend the community as a whole, and the local news media and law enforcement officials in particular, on the calm manner in which these demonstrations have been handled. We urge the public to continue to show restraint should the demonstrations continue, and the law enforcement officials to remain calm and continue to protect our city from violence.

Yes, indeed, protect "Bombingham" from violence.  By all means!

We further strongly urge our own Negro community to withdraw support from these demonstrations, and to unite locally in working peacefully for a better Birmingham. When rights are consistently denied, a cause should be pressed in the courts and in negotiations among local leaders, and not in the streets. We appeal to both our white and Negro citizenry to observe the principles of law and order and common sense.

You see?  When whites violate blacks' civil rights for 300+ years, it's incumbent on the "Negro community to withdraw support" from peaceful outsiders, they must join their friendly white oppressors "to observe the principles of law and order and common sense."  This steadfast rejection of polarizing tactics is the only possible fair and evenhanded approach that anyone sensible can possibly consider.

Dr. King's Response

Fortunately, however, Dr. Martin Luther King was not a sensible man.  Indeed, in December, 1963, he gave a speech in which he said, "there is need for a new organization in our world. The International Association for the Advancement of Creative Maladjustment."  And so, the creatively maladjusted Dr. King took exception to the eminently sensible men of the Southern cloth, and their stern rejection of his polarizing tactics.

After an introductory paragraph, King responded to the "outsider" charge using standard establishment logic:  he was head of a regional organization with a local affiliate, and was no more of an outsider than the head of any other regional organization with a branch in Birmingham:

I think I should indicate why I am here In Birmingham, since you have been influenced by the view which argues against "outsiders coming in." I have the honor of serving as president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, an organization operating in every southern state, with headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. We have some eighty-five affiliated organizations across the South, and one of them is the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights. Frequently we share staff, educational and financial resources with our affiliates. Several months ago the affiliate here in Birmingham asked us to be on call to engage in a nonviolent direct-action program if such were deemed necessary. We readily consented, and when the hour came we lived up to our promise. So I, along with several members of my staff, am here because I was invited here I am here because I have organizational ties here.

But then, having established himself by establishment credentialling, he tossed such logic aside:

But more basically, I am in Birmingham because injustice is here. Just as the prophets of the eighth century B.C. left their villages and carried their "thus saith the Lord" far beyond the boundaries of their home towns, and just as the Apostle Paul left his village of Tarsus and carried the gospel of Jesus Christ to the far corners of the Greco-Roman world, so am I compelled to carry the gospel of freedom beyond my own home town. Like Paul, I must constantly respond to the Macedonian call for aid.

Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states. I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be concerned about what happens in Birmingham. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds.

Note the perfect blending of the civil and the religious, the ancient and the modern, and the underlying contrast between those who would divide and those who follow the call of unity.  Polarization in the service of unity makes its implicit entry into the argument here.

You deplore the demonstrations taking place In Brimingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations. I am sure that none of you would want to rest content with the superficial kind of social analysis that deals merely with effects and does not grapple with underlying causes. It is unfortunate that demonstrations are taking place in Birmingham, but it is even more unfortunate that the city's white power structure left the Negro community with no alternative.

With this paragraph, King has effortlessly crossed over into the realm of the unspeakable.  This is just the sort of argument, for seeing things whole and in depth, that cannot even be properly expressed in today's elite political discourse.  

    A Pointed Aside

    Consider the recent dust-up over Washington Post reporting on "rumors" about Obama being a Muslim-without clearly saying that such rumors were false.  As Greg Sargent noted at TPM's The Horse's Mouth:

    Okay, this is just bizarre. Today The New York Times did an article covering the dust-up over the Washington Post Obama Muslim story. And guess what the focus of the entire piece was?

    The fact that a blogger/professor said some nasty things about the WaPo reporter who did the piece, Perry Bacon, Jr., sparking a battle between journalistic worthies over on Romenesko.

    Meanwhile, guess how much ink The Times devoted to the actual criticism of the piece? A grand total of one sentence.

    Seeing things whole and in depth is not simply verbotten.  It is simply, as a matter of observable fact,  inconceivable.

    End Aside

Such comprehensiveness and depth is utterly indispensible for making good decisions-in public life as well as private.  It is only with such comprehensiveness and depth that we see the true cause of polarization, and the two very different forms of peace, and of law-one just, the other unjust.

Because civil disobedience involves breaking the law, the subject of just and unjust laws is crucial for King, and his words deserve reading in their entirety.  But for the purpose of this diary, I excerpt the following passages:

You express a great deal of anxiety over our willingness to break laws. This is certainly a legitimate concern. Since we so diligently urge people to obey the Supreme Court's decision of 1954 outlawing segregation in the public schools, at first glance it may seem rather paradoxical for us consciously to break laws. One may well ask: "How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?" The answer lies in the fact that there fire two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all."

....

One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law.

Of course, there is nothing new about this kind of civil disobedience. It was evidenced sublimely in the refusal of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego to obey the laws of Nebuchadnezzar, on the ground that a higher moral law was at stake. It was practiced superbly by the early Christians, who were willing to face hungry lions and the excruciating pain of chopping blocks rather than submit to certain unjust laws of the Roman Empire. To a degree, academic freedom is a reality today because Socrates practiced civil disobedience. In our own nation, the Boston Tea Party represented a massive act of civil disobedience.

We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal." It was "illegal" to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler's Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers. If today I lived in a Communist country where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I would openly advocate disobeying that country's anti religious laws.

Thus, as King makes clear, there is a deeply moral and deeply thoughtful foundation for the practice of non-violent civil disobedience, and this foundation, both its morality and its thoughtfulness actually make it more respectful of law than mere blind obedience does.

However fundamental this point is, the second pairing-of just and unjust peace-speaks more directly to blind and foolhardy demonization of polarization we hear today.  This pairing underlies virtually the whole of his argument, for it is the whole purpose of his presence in Birmingham, the very key to his whole philosophy and approach to brining justice into the word.  And so much of the letter relates to it, without speaking to it directly, but rather elaborating its consequences, preconditions, correlates or the concrete embodiments of all these in the specific case of Birmingham.  Yet, there are several key passages in which the central thrust is evident, beginning with a paragraph already quoted above:

You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations. I am sure that none of you would want to rest content with the superficial kind of social analysis that deals merely with effects and does not grapple with underlying causes. It is unfortunate that demonstrations are taking place in Birmingham, but it is even more unfortunate that the city's white power structure left the Negro community with no alternative.

In short, what bothered them was disorder, not injustice. What caught their attention was not the cause of things, but only a portion of the effect.

As King explains, the Civil Rights Movement's approach was not undertaken lightly, and a great deal of deep and careful preparation preceeded the launching of a non-violent confrontation :

In any nonviolent campaign there are four basic steps: collection of the facts to determine whether injustices exist; negotiation; self- purification; and direct action. We have gone through an these steps in Birmingham. There can be no gainsaying the fact that racial injustice engulfs this community....

As in so many past experiences, our hopes bad been blasted, and the shadow of deep disappointment settled upon us. We had no alternative except to prepare for direct action, whereby we would present our very bodies as a means of laying our case before the conscience of the local and the national community. Mindful of the difficulties involved, we decided to undertake a process of self-purification. We began a series of workshops on nonviolence, and we repeatedly asked ourselves : "Are you able to accept blows without retaliating?" "Are you able to endure the ordeal of jail?"

King now comes to the very crux of the matter-the relationship between confrontation, and negotiation, and the need to create tension, conflict, in order to force those who hold the upper hand to negotiate honestly in good faith:

You may well ask: "Why direct action? Why sit-ins, marches and so forth? Isn't negotiation a better path?" You are quite right in calling, for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.

The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved South land been bogged down in a tragic effort to live in monologue rather than dialogue.

"[M]onologue rather than dialogue"-it is what King faced in his day, and it is surely what we face as well.  The issues that are reported, discussed and debated in the blogosphere are simply excluded from the officially sanctioned political discourse of our nation.  (Not not all of them, to be sure.  But a great number, and especially the whole of them considered as a gestalt.  The destruction of our Constitutional order is not a subject for debate. John Edwards' haircut is.  So, too, Hillary Clinton's laugh, and rumors [aka lies] about Barack Obama's faith.) And it is very hard to see how this monologue can be broken through, and turned into a dialogue without following the same logic that King lays out: we must intensify the tensions in order to force a genuine dialogue.

Without confrontation, there will be no dialogue.  Under the tutelage of consultants and DLC ideologues, we have been avoiding confrontation, running away from it, ever since George McGovern lost the 1972 election, and the result has been an increasingly dominant rightwing monologue, which has now normalized the practice of torture, and recast the fundmantal foundations of our Constitutional order-going back as far as 1215-as a "far left" position.

In sharp contrast to the mealy-mouth pundits of today, King was clear about the need for, and morality of confrontation:

My friends, I must say to you that we have not made a single gain civil rights without determined legal and nonviolent pressure. Lamentably, it is an historical fact that privileged groups seldom give up their privileges voluntarily. Individuals may see the moral light and voluntarily give up their unjust posture; but, as Reinhold Niebuhr has reminded us, groups tend to be more immoral than individuals.

We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct-action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant 'Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."

....

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fan in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with an its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

Just so.  When the Bush Administration secretly abolishes fundamental rights, telling no one what they have done, and we scream bloody murder when it comes even partially to light, then King's words describe us as well:  "We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with."  And when consultants, pundits, and leaders like Barack Obama scold us for polarizing and poisoning the political debate, they are acting the part of the eight Southern white clergymen who told King to shut up and go home.

It may sound unduly harsh to include Obama in this number, but he has been a leading evangelist in preaching the gosple of post-partisanship, and attacking polarization itself as an evil, without reference to where it comes from or why.

He has, just recently, attempted to modify his tune:

It's change that won't just come from more anger at Washington or turning up the heat on Republicans. There's no shortage of anger and bluster and bitter partisanship out there. We don't need more heat. We need more light. I've learned in my life that you can stand firm in your principles while still reaching out to those who might not always agree with you. And although the Republican operatives in Washington might not be interested in hearing what we have to say, I think Republican and independent voters outside of Washington are. That's the once-in-a-generation opportunity we have in this election. [Emphasis added]

But he's spent the last three years trying to get along with those very same DC Republican operatives, and squealching any attempts to dramatize to rank and file Republican voters just how badly those operatives are mis-representing them.

Obama's not a bad person, he's just woefully out of his depth.  In fact, so's the entire Democratic Party establishment.  They utterly fail to grasp the fundamental truths that King lays out in his "Letter from Birmingham Jail."  They accept the level of superficiality embraced by the tut-tuting white moderate clergymen, and treat it like it was a form of higher knowledge.  They think that relying on deep moral principles means condemning Bill Clinton, MoveOn, or whichever other ally the Republicans target next.

When Obama said, "We don't need more heat. We need more light," he was lifting a page right out of the white clergymen's letter to King.  King's response was simple: I wish it were different, but it's always been this way--it takes more heat to bring more light.

Tags: martin luther king, Letter From Birmingham Jail, polarization, Barack Obama (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 98 comments

  •  Tip Jar (24+ / 0-)

    Been a while since I've cross-posted here.  Let me see if I still know how to do this....

    (1) Don't take any wooden nickles.
    (2) Don't take any hidden pickles.
    (3) "Wooden Nickles" to win and "Hidden Pickles" to place in the 4th.

  •  well (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Paul Rosenberg, Pesto, Boston Boomer

    despite the anti-Obamaness, this is an absolutely excellent diary.

    in fact, i was thinking to myself while reading it THIS is a perfect example of one of the reasons why so many of us want an end to the non-stop candidate diaries - SO WE CAN ONCE MORE FILL dKOS WITH DIARIES LIKE THIS!

    then i hit the Obama refs. sigh.

    mind you, the Obamamaniacs on dKos have already led me to drop him to the bottom of my list of potential candidates, so i'm not an Obama supporter at this particular moment in time.

    i'm just someone who really enjoys reading diaries with great content.

    and i do find your analysis interesting.

    but i would have found it well worth spending a morning reading over and thinking about while washing the dishes and finally pulling down the giant flowers which have been dead in the garden for four months and cleaning up the redbone coonhound mix puppy mess and coming back to to read a few more times ... were it not for the Obama stuff.

    that said, i'd love to read this AFTER the primaries.

    •  I Wish I Didn't Have To Be Writing It, Either (9+ / 0-)

      I was so enthusiastic when Obama first appeared on the scene. So proud when he was selected to speak at the DNC. So hopeful when he was elected.

      Then he started channelling David Broder.

      I'd much rather be writing about David Broder.

      •  that is pure BS (0+ / 0-)

        you really don't see how so many of us are so tired of the fighting and not getting anything done. I think you want the fight more than you want real change.  Tell me why is this country such a mess if fighting is the answer.  It is not we have to cross this divide so we can once again reach the heights this country deserves. There is more to be gained by persuasion than disaffection.

        •  disagree (6+ / 0-)

          i'm a Paul Rosenberg fan. he doesn't post here often, but the diaries i've read of his here are outstanding.

          and my bet is, he's missed the mayhem that's been going on here.

          he appears to have a life, iow. unlike me, at the moment. :D well, unless insane decluttering during my vacation counts.

        •  One hundred years of "persuasion" (6+ / 0-)

          did very little to change the lot of African Americans in this country.  Despite his civil tone, King was a radical agent for change, and the powers that be knew it and knew he was dangerous to them.  When King started to speak out against Vietnam, they knew he had to be silenced and his message marginalized.  

          As the diarist points out, King has been turned into a "warm and fuzzy" figure in the minds of many Americans.  As I said before, King was a radical.

          There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

          by Boston Boomer on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 08:45:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  LOL (5+ / 0-)

          what fights have we won in the last 7 years that make you think talking would be a better solution. Remember all the war protests? Ignored, remember all the letters and petitions? Ignored. Remember when Pelosi first took office she was all about talking to Reps and Bush? Remember when she went to Syria without permission? She was villified by the right. We need to fight MORE not LESS, they are NOT scared of us yet. We keep backing down and we need to stop.

          We do need to cross the divide because the Reps and their corrupt friends have built a fortress, with dual moats, huge ass battlements and cannons around DC and they do not let ANYONE in who is not wealthy and corrupt.

          You can talk to the bastards after we have beaten them into submission, in case you haven't noticed it is perfectly legal now for them to beat anyone into submission they want. Is that what you want for your country? Torture, corruption, no right to trial? If so, keep "talking".

          "You are more than the sum of what you consume, desire is not an occupation" KMFDM - Dogma

          by Chaoslillith on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 10:04:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  i will give you this (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        cosbo, zazzlin

        it's lightyears better than 99.99999999999% of the candidate diaries that get posted here.

        but i stopped reading when i saw Obama's name in the mix. what i read, though, is excellent!

  •  What? (0+ / 0-)

    And when consultants, pundits, and leaders like Barack Obama scold us for polarizing and poisoning the political debate, they are acting the part of the eight Southern white clergymen who told King to shut up and go home.

    Are you serious? Obama is the moral equivalent of a group of clergy advocating against the civil rights movement?

    Wow.

    Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.

    by MBNYC on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 08:14:41 AM PDT

    •  Ironic, Isn't It? (7+ / 0-)

      And deeply troubling.

      So which are you going to go with?  The logic of the argument?  Or the color of his skin?

      •  You are really out of your mind (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        MBNYC

        that you can be that determined to try to undermine a life's work of someone who gave so much of himself to those who needed it the most.  And there is something of a smugness in your replies.  Do you really think that you will change any minds with this.  I don't think so.  I witnessed what happened to King and Bobby and cried my eyes out.  I think King would be very disappointed in what you are trying to convey.  That is why Joseph Lowery who was so close to King has endorsed Obama.

      •  that's probably an unfair question (4+ / 0-)

        You could have found this kind of argument about civility vs. confrontation in a number of places.  Alinsky, for example, or any number of union leaders.   But you chose MLK because you wanted to use a black figure to respond to a black candidate.  

        I think this opens you up to the larger critique as to whether or not it makes sense to suggest that, somehow, Obama's candidacy is an affront to the legacy of MLK.

        I don't agree with Obama's attitude about behaving in politics, but I have a hard time seeing him as anything other than the embodiment of MLK's legacy. And I suspect most people feel the same way.

        Your argument seems to reduce MLK down to a tactic of  political rhetoric, and then use that boiled down version as a measuring stick.  I feel myself pushing aback against that at a gut level no matter what I think of Obama.  

        ---
        Tired of violent language from right-wing pundits? Buy my book: Outright Barbarous

        by Jeffrey Feldman on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 08:40:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  woah (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          MBNYC

          awesome response.

          hoping for equally awesome response from the author.

          ::runs for another cup of coffee::

        •  Maybe the author chose MLK because (4+ / 0-)

          he admires him.  MLK is also a much more well-known figure today than Saul Alinsky.  I think King would be proud to see an African American running for president, and he probably would have been proud when Jesse Jackson ran for president 20 years ago.  Would change have been this slow if King had lived?  If King had lived, he would have been able to continue his work to end the war and fight poverty.  

          Unlike you, I can't claim to know how King would have felt about Obama's message.  Frankly, if King had lived, it might not have taken so long for us to get to this point.  Our country would probably be a very different place.  And that is why the powers that be made sure that King would not survive once he began to try to extend his message of change to other areas beyond civil rights and integration.

          There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

          by Boston Boomer on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 08:52:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I Admired Alinsky (3+ / 0-)

            But King defined my world.

            As a kid growing up, and into being a young teen, I had only four real life heroes (I read voraciously, so lots of fictional or historical ones): Willie Mays, Martin Luther King, Cassius Clay (as he was then known) and Malcolm X.

            What can I say?  It was the McCarthy Era, and its long, torturous aftemath.  Wasn't a lot of heroic whites that I could see.

            •  I idolized King too. (3+ / 0-)

              I was in high school when he led the March on Washington.  Before that, I was horrified by the violence that took place over integration in the South.  King's message was so powerful to me as white girl growing up in the conservative Midwest.  

              I took King's message and applied it to my powerlessness as a female in male-dominated world.  I had always resented being treated as "less than" as a girl--probably from the time I started elementary school.

              Throughout my life up to the present moment, the battle for equal treatment for each of us under the law has been the most important issue to me.  As women, we are still being told to wait for equal pay and for reproductive rights.  And the GLBT community is hearing the same message.

              Cassius Clay (later Muhammed Ali)had a huge effect on me too as a kid. For me, Betty Friedan was also huge.  As these people did, we all need to stand up now and fight for what we believe in and we will lose our beloved country for good.

              There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

              by Boston Boomer on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 09:14:40 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It was my Catholic high school (2+ / 0-)

                football coach, a stocky, crew-cut white Cajun guy, talking to me after practice in 1965 about his admiration for King that turned me consciously against my family's racism. Vatican II had a huge effect on me too - one of the finest moments in my life was in 2001 driving in the mountains north of Pisa and coming around a curve and seeing the statue of John XXIII in the town where he was born. Great men and women who devoted their lives to the greater good.

                Then let us learn our range: we are something but we are not everything - Pascal

                by jlb1972 on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 10:33:03 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  I did not (4+ / 0-)

            claim to know what King would have thought about Obama's message. Please don't say that I did.

            ---
            Tired of violent language from right-wing pundits? Buy my book: Outright Barbarous

            by Jeffrey Feldman on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 09:24:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  It's NOT A Tactic For Me (8+ / 0-)

          I'm one of those hated Baby Boomers.  King was a towering figure in my life.  The Civil Rights Movement was the defining reality of my life.  Everything else in the 1960s--the anti-war movement, women's liberation, gay liberation--all came out of the Civil Rights Movement.  It remains the moral framework that fundamentally informs how I see the world.  I've written about King repeatedly over the years, and I quoted extensively from the letter, because I don't want to see the reality of what he was about either buried or distorted.

          In short, this came from a very deep place in me.  I could have made this point in another way.  But that would have been a stretch.  Taking the original idea, and reframing it so as not to offend...whoever... that would have been a tactic.

          So, you can think what you like. You can think what you like about what you think my thoughts are. But King's thoughts are unmistakably clear.

          And very much worth keeping in mind.

          •  King's thinking (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            MBNYC, Runs With Scissors

            and his rhetoric changed greatly over the course of his life.  As inspiring as the piece is that you quote, it is well known that King struggled with the role of confrontation in politics, that he arrived at the speech you cite, but started in a very different place.

            The scholarship on King typically points to a broad arc in his thinking from a younger King taken with the non-confrontational aspect of Ghandi's approach to social change, to a more seasoned King influenced by Johnson's recalcitrance on Vietnam and the debate with black power intellectuals and organizers.  It would be incacurate, in other words, to say that King always felt that confrontation in politics was the best way to go.

            Malcolm X went through a similar transformation, albeit in the opposite direction.

            Taking this one quote, then, as the essence of what MLK always was, and then using it to critique a Presidential candidate is not just a selective reading, but a highly political one.  

            So, again...I completely disagree with Obama's position on confrontation in politics. We're eye-to-eye on that.   I have my own ideas about what poisons political debate, and it is ain't partisanship.  But the facing off of Obama against MLK just doesn't ring true.  

            It is possible to put forward a good reading of a speech, but then offer up a weak application of that reading.  I do it all the time, and I think this might be one of those cases.

            ---
            Tired of violent language from right-wing pundits? Buy my book: Outright Barbarous

            by Jeffrey Feldman on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 09:39:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm Sorry Jeffrey, But You're REALLY Straining (5+ / 0-)

              On This

              Of course King's thinking changed over time. We all know that.  And I wasn't pretending otherwise.  But you yourself note that he only became more confrontational over time.

              Furthermore, what he offers here is not more confrontational than Ghandi's stance. It is, rather, one of the best-articulated justifications and explanations of Ghandi's stance.  And as such, it occupies a certain centrality in King's thought that really has few equals.

              •  King's non-violence (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Runs With Scissors

                was a strategy for overturning legally sanctioned, structural injustice--apartheid--but was never intended as a way to deal with short term problems brought on by policy.  King did not, for example, advocate non-violence as a way to deal with the ideological and legal problems caused by Cold Warriors, which was a different order of problem.

                So we can say that King has a lesson for us in this election, if we also make the case that this election is fundamentally a test moment in an ongoing civil rights struggle.

                I'm open to those arguments, but I don't see them, yet.

                 

                ---
                Tired of violent language from right-wing pundits? Buy my book: Outright Barbarous

                by Jeffrey Feldman on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 10:24:46 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  More Than A Strategy (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  jlb1972, Runs With Scissors
                  It should be obvious from King's letter that he was talking about more than a strategy.  It should also be obvious from his later speeches and writings that he did not abandon a Ghandian perspective when taking on the war, but rather expanding it.

                  Indeed, by trying to divide the issues like this, you are mirroring those who sought to shut King up about the war, which I think is deeply contrary to how you actually think.

                  What is significant here is not the issues involved, but that attitude toward the meaning and significance of "polarization."  I am not claiming that all polarization is good.  Or even that any particular polarization is necessary.  As King laid out--and I passed over some of the specific details--the process he engaged in involved a period of investigation, so that people knew what they were getting into, and knew that other means had already failed.

                  I would submit that history of the past 27 years shows that others means have already failed when it comes to dealing with movement conservatism.  It's time for a clarifying polarization, not more kissy face (where we kiss, while they backstab) and delay.

                  •  but now by claiming that I am also echoing (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Runs With Scissors

                    those who tried to shut down King, you've made the same kind of argument.  That's the problem, here.  

                    I am in no way mirroring King's critics.  Not on any level.  Your reading of the speech is insightful.

                    But I am left unconvinced by the critique you've built out of it.

                    Anyway, an interesting discussion...

                    ---
                    Tired of violent language from right-wing pundits? Buy my book: Outright Barbarous

                    by Jeffrey Feldman on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 11:06:06 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I Don't Think You Know What The Problem Is (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      Runs With Scissors
                      And you are still groping for what's bugging you.

                      But you are mirroring King's critics when you seek to see his reasoning on civil rights as not just separable, but unrelated to other issues.  You are not doing it with the same intent, but you are reflecting a similarly disjointed mis-apprehension of his thought.

                      And I repeat--I don't think for a moment that this actually represents your true thinking.

                      To sum up, so far, none of the arguments you've presented really applies, Jeffrey--which is highly unusual, coming from you.  It feels to me like you are grasping at straws, tossing out ideas that are half-thought-out, and not fully reflected on.  But I know you well enough to assume that there is something legitimate that is bugging you, and you just haven't gotten to the core of it yet.  So, I invite you to email me when it comes to you, in case this diary (and the one at Open Left) is in languish mode by then.

                      •  well...I'm sorry you don't see it (0+ / 0-)

                        I know exactly what's bugging me, but it's not bugging me so much as my having a hard time getting it across is bugging me.

                        This piece is a scathing critique of Obama by comparing his words to MLK's words (although you dont' include OBama's words).  Howsomever:  MLK was not running for president; Obama is not the leader of a protest movement.  So, you've got some serious apples and oranges you're trying to force together here.  As a result, I think you undermine the power of your argument against Obama.

                        (And with that, my friend, I apologize for my already-too-long comments and leave you to lay down the last word.  A topic better suited for a cafe than a blog thread, but alas...)

                        ---
                        Tired of violent language from right-wing pundits? Buy my book: Outright Barbarous

                        by Jeffrey Feldman on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 02:59:40 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

      •  Hmm, let me think. (0+ / 0-)

        Your premise is overstated, your example in extremely poor taste and historically slipshod, and chosen, obviously, to be as offensively faux-edgy as you can possibly make it, and my choices are agreement or disagreement based on his skin color?

        I think I'll go with option #3, which is to reject both your premise and the staggeringly self-serving generalizations you advance by way of argument. How's that?

        I further contend that you butcher MLK's multi-faceted legacy.

        I Have a Dream

        I say to you today, my friends, so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

        I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

        I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

        King was not just relevant as a voice against injustice. He was also and foremost a voice in the wilderness calling for togetherness after the struggle had been won. That's the part that you miss, frankly, and a huge reason for Obama's appeal.

        In short, your diary fails on a number of levels. Completely.

        Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.

        by MBNYC on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 08:59:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You wrote: (4+ / 0-)

          King was not just relevant as a voice against injustice. He was also and foremost a voice in the wilderness calling for togetherness after the struggle had been won.

          Sadly, the struggle has not been won.  And recently the Supreme Court basically reversed Brown vs. Board of Education.  

          There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

          by Boston Boomer on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 09:18:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  True but (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Runs With Scissors

            that's a peripheral point. The diarist constructs a dichotomy, whereby you are either, to phrase it more sharply, instigator or appeaser. He then identifies the two poles of the dichotomy with King and his opponents. I assert that this premise is false, because MLK was far more than this diarist's reduction of him.

            I'm astounded that people are fawning over this, frankly.

            Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.

            by MBNYC on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 09:37:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You and I read the diary differently. (2+ / 0-)

              And I don't see that as a peripheral point at all.  

              But I can see that in the present atmosphere at DKos, this diary would be upsetting to Obama supporters (I don't know if you support him, but it sounds like it).  I don't support a particular candidate at this point, so maybe it had a different effect on me.  

              There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

              by Boston Boomer on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 10:43:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It is peripheral (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Runs With Scissors

                to my argument that King was more complex than the one-dimensional caricature this diarist presents. As Jeffrey points out above, that assertion isn't even disputed in the literature.

                Re: Obama, he's my second choice, after Edwards. I object to this diary on grounds of intellectual honesty, not out of convenience or primary loyalty.

                Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.

                by MBNYC on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 11:24:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I see. Thanks for the reply. (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  jlb1972, Runs With Scissors

                  Again, though, we read the diary differently.  I don't see it as a "one-dimensional caricature."  

                  There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

                  by Boston Boomer on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 11:43:12 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Where Do You Get This One-Dimensional Jazz??? (2+ / 0-)

                  King's reasoning in the passages I quoted is quite complex.  How anyone could construe him otherwise is utterly baffling to me.

                  One of the main points here is that polarization exists with a social context, and that beneficial polarization is part of complex process, which is premised on the belief that people can change, but that most need to be confronted in order to do so.

                  This is a both/and sort of perspective that I learned at an early age--precisely from Dr. King and those who worked with him.

                  •  See? (0+ / 0-)

                    How anyone could construe him otherwise is utterly baffling to me.

                    There's your problem in a nutshell. You're simply incapable of comprehending, I suspect at a very basic level, that it's possible to come to conclusions that differ from yours. I see that glaringly laid out above, where you compare Jeffrey (!) with King's critics, however gently.

                    Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.

                    by MBNYC on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 02:40:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I'm Just Saying You've Got To Explain It (2+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      Boston Boomer, jlb1972
                      If (a) you see King as one-dimension and (b) you see my presentation of him as one-dimension, I am utterly flabbergasted, not least because of my long familiarity and admiration for him, but also because I consciously chose this text to present a nuanced, yet powerful articulation of a complex process.

                      In short, the presentation of King's positive vision of polarization was deliberately and intentionally inherently complex. When I say that seeing him otherwise is utterly baffling to me, I am simply confessing that I can't for the life of me see what more or else I can do to convery the sense I have of King's consciousness and his vision.

                      So, help me out.  Tell me how King as I have presented him strikes you as simplistic and one-dimensional.  I've confessed that I simply don't see it.  So explain it to me.

                      Please.

        •  Everyone Wants To Go To Heaven No One Wants 2 Die (4+ / 0-)

          Everyone wants to quote "I have a dream" but the promisory note, and the "Letter from Birmingham Jail," not so much.

          Obama's appeal is obvious.  King did the heavy lifting, and Obama wants to lead us in self-congradulation all for being alive now, after it's all done.

          Well, good feelings are fine.  But what about the work still left to be done?  And what about those pushing us backwards?

          You have entirely avoided addressing my argument.  And you've avoided responding to my retort.  If Obama can be defended, then do it in terms of the argument presented.  Counter it in some manner.  Obama's skin color is not a counter-argument.  Shoving King's "I have a dream" moment down our throats one more time is not a counter-argument, either.  A counter-argument addresses the original argument, it does not ignore it, and drag red herrings across our path.

          •  the work still left to be done - (2+ / 0-)

            and the lost ground to be re-won ...

            Then let us learn our range: we are something but we are not everything - Pascal

            by jlb1972 on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 10:34:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Dude... (0+ / 0-)

            If Obama can be defended, then do it in terms of the argument presented.  Counter it in some manner.  Obama's skin color is not a counter-argument.

            ...I haven't even mentioned Obama's skin color. That seems to be your particular interest, and doesn't even touch on what I actually wrote. Not, mind you, that you get to set the terms under which your audience critiques your efforts.

            Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.

            by MBNYC on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 11:16:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You Brought Up Obama's Skin Color Implicitly (0+ / 0-)

              Your very first comment in this thread:

              Are you serious? Obama is the moral equivalent of a group of clergy advocating against the civil rights movement?

              If this isn't an implicit argument on the basis of skin color, then I don't know what it is.

              I'm still waiting for a responsive argument from you.

              And while it's true that I don't get to set the terms under which people critique my efforts, I do get to point out when they are utterly failing to critique my efforts, but rather dragging in every red herring they can find within a hundred-mile radius.

              •  Get over yourself. (0+ / 0-)

                You say:

                If this isn't an implicit argument on the basis of skin color, then I don't know what it is.

                ...to which I say that I'd have made the same argument in defense of any Democrat. Nothing implicit about anything; it's just that you came here expecting that response and are unprepared and probably unqualified to deal with anything else. It's also profoundly dishonest to describe an argument that simply is not there as 'implicit', but that's gravy.

                I do get to point out when they are utterly failing to critique my efforts, but rather dragging in every red herring they can find within a hundred-mile radius.

                Again, in this thread, you've been advised by several people, including myself and Jeffrey Feldman, that your portrayal and analysis of King are, to be charitable, incomplete. You've responded to that that your vision of MLK is as it is, without explaining why your perception should trump the scholarship on the man or the more comprehensive and accurate descriptions put out by others.

                There are red herrings here, but they're swimming from your direction.

                Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.

                by MBNYC on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 02:28:24 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Everyone please rec this! (4+ / 0-)

    This should be a front page post!

    -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power"

    by dopper0189 on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 08:15:01 AM PDT

    •  Yes, it should be on the rec list. (4+ / 0-)

      I can see why some might object to the Obama references, but the fact is that Obama has been telling us to avoid confrontation ever since he got into the Senate.  I still have trouble getting past that diary he posted here at DKos a couple of years ago.  Then he was telling us not to criticize Democrats who had voted for Alito, because they are good people who are doing the best they can.  Well they are still treading water in DC and have accomplished very little concrete progress with all their hearings and their gentle treatment of the Republicans.

      There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

      by Boston Boomer on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 08:29:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Inappropriate analogy (0+ / 0-)

    First, your analysis of one of my favorite pieces of writing is eloquent and accurate.  I have to give you credit there.

    But Obama-as-White-clergy is inaccurate.  In fact, I'm sure it'll be downright offensive to many -- but I'll leave it to others to hit those points.  I want to address your conflation of two very different situations, though.  On the one hand, King -- like his intellectual and historical predecessors -- was fighting from a position of complete disenfranchsement.  Neither he, nor anyone in his group, had a seat at the table.  "Polarization" -- the usage of which is anachronistic in King's context anyhow, but that's a side point -- makes sense if you're trying to grab the attention of the power brokers.  

    However, we're talking about the president of the United States.  It's the ultimate position of power: he has not only significant formal constitutional lawmaking powers, but the bully pulpit and unfettered access to the main conduit of public opinion-influencing and intra-branch communication: the press.  Bush/Rove/DeLay chose the polarization route, which for some reason is fetishized in the progressive blogosphere as the only way to do business (without the lying and killing, of course).  But what did it get him?  He rolled over Congress with the war, no doubt.  But almost all of his domestic agenda has failed, he's mired in the low 30s, DeLay is gone, Rove is gone, and we're looking at a potential realignment election next year at their expense.  The president is wholly reliant on public opinion in the "going public" era -- and you'll have to work harder to convince me that pissing off 49.5% of the public through intentional polarization is the only way to get your agenda passed.  

    Reasonable people (i.e., Edwards vs. Obama supporters) can disagree on presidential strategy.  But I just can't buy the fundamental premise of your argument without hearing you justify the similarities between King's position of powerlessness and the contemporary presidency's bully pulpit.    

    •  Cardinal (0+ / 0-)

      You said it so well.  People try to disguise a hit piece my misrepresenting history. Obama would be the answer to Martin's dream.  The promised land that he was not able to see with his own eyes.

    •  You Miss The Core Of My Argument (7+ / 0-)

      I'm not arguing for meaningless or mendacious polarization.

      I'm arguing against the notion that responding to mendacious polarization with compromise is a good thing.

      We've gone that route for the last 30-40 years.  We let Nixon's crimes go, once he left office. We let Iran-Contra go, with the Dems in Congress announcing, even before hearings began, that "No one's talking about impeachment."   Clinton cut off all talk of further investigtions into Reagan/Bush wrongdoing, and rather than taking this an act of reconciliation, the GOP took it as a sign of weakness, and launched a 6-year effort to remove him from office.

      In short, there is nothing new--and certainly nothing black--about Obama's "let's all be friends" approach.  Democrats have been losing with it for as long as he's been politically active.

      As for the supposed incongruity of "King's position of powerlessness and the contemporary presidency's bully pulpit," consider this: What if Clinton had fought for Lani Guinier when she was being slimed and maligned?  He is the only Democrat to hold the office since Reagan kicked off the modern conservative era.  And he tried Obama's conciliatory approach, got hammered immediately for it, and never really did fight back (remember signing "welfare reform" in August 1996, when he was trouncing Dole in the polls?) until it was his own ass on the line.

      Now, I'm not insinuating that Obama would be the same as Clinton.  But the point is, the bully pulpit doesn't mean anything automatically.  It depends on how it is used.

      On the other hand, King's moral argument does not depend in the least on who is making it. Lincoln, too, made a similar argument at Cooper Union--as noted over at Open Left in the diary just before I posted this one (though I wrote mine the night before, so there was no relationship.)

      But the fact that I sourced it to King should serve to emphasize that I am talking about an argument that is the polar (there's that word again) opposite of Bush/Rove style polarization.

  •  MLK's radicalism was good because it worked. (0+ / 0-)

    If it were counterproductive, just a cry to the ether, it'd be worth zilch.  So I'll take Obama's winning pragmatism over McGovern's losing moral imperatives any day of the week.

    •  So Nat Turner, Denmark Vessey--Chumps? (5+ / 0-)

      By your yardstick, I guess all those slave rebellions were just stupid, I guess.

      I'm sorry, but Nat Turner, Denmark Vessey, Gabriel Prosser, those guys are great American heroes in my eyes.

      I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

      •  Your just way off base here (0+ / 0-)

        trying to compare Barack Obama's candidacy for the presidency to a slave rebellion?

        Besides the fact that all of those rebellions ultimately failed resulting in the deaths of many, don't you think that each of them would've instead done what Barack is doing now if they'd had the opportunity?

        •  No, I'm Questioning Your "Pragmatic" Logic (5+ / 0-)

          You say--ala Al Davis--"Just Win, Baby!"  (How's that working out for Al the last decade or so, BTW?)

          I think that you're not just presenting a red herring, but a rotten one, to boot.

          It is neither assured that compromising with evil will win the 2008 election, nor is it true that winning alone is the only measure of worth.

          •  I'd suggest you take another look at his speech (0+ / 0-)

            I’ve learned in my life that you can stand firm in your principles while still reaching out to those who might not always agree with you. And although the Republican operatives in Washington might not be interested in hearing what we have to say, I think Republican and independent voters outside of Washington are.


            -- Barack Obama, Dec. 27, 2007.

            It's not about compromising with evil. It's about breaking up this evil coalition that has ruled Washington for the past three decades. The more I think about your diary, the more I realize that it is analogous, and it's Barack who is absolutely following in King's footsteps, appealing to the fundamental goodness of the American people to break up the right wing power structure in the same way that King appealed to that same goodness to break up the Jim Crow power structure.  

            •  I Suggest You Trake Another Look At My Diary (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              kungfu
              I already quoted that passage in my diary, and wrote a critical comment about it.

              If you want to engage in substantive debate, then respond to what I have written.

              Otherwise, why not just type, "Obama Is Great!" 100 times, and leave it at that?

              •  Your critical comment (0+ / 0-)

                about the quote doesn't address the substance of it at all. You simply mis-characterize Obama's Senate career with no citations as if that should end the debate.

                If Obama has "spent that last three years trying to get along with those very same DC Republican operatives, and squealching [sic] any attempts to dramatize to rank and file Republican voters just how badly those operatives are mis-representing them", then why is his Senate voting record to the right of only Senators Feingold and Leahy?

                Why are Trent Lott and Dennie Hastert rushing for the exits to avoid the new cooling off period put in place by Obama's ethics reform bill?

                Why is he the only person on the political scene to state the truth about the role that our misadventure in Iraq has played in the set of circumstances that resulted in the tragic death of Benezir Bhutto this week?

                How can I even have a "substantive debate" about your critique of Obama's passage when you yourself just leave it out there with no explanation or citations to support it?

                I do want to have a substantive debate about this. I think that the Obama candidacy is the greatest opportunity that I've seen in my lifetime to bring about a progressive realignment in American politics. That progressives such as yourself cannot see this, and would (apparently) rather go with the PIRO (progressive in rhetoric only) John Edwards is quite unbelievable to me.

                Where is your political analysis that you can't see the difference between a Johnny-come-lately to the progressive movement, who was a straight-up centrist DLC moderate when he had the chance to do something, and went on to work for a Wall Street hedge fund after that, as opposed to an African-American community organizer, civil rights lawyer, liberal constitutional law professor, with an 11 year long progressive legislative record and the largest grassroots political campaign in Democratic primary history?

                But that's all fine. But to then turn around and try to somehow claim that Obama is more like the white clergy resisting MLK's demanded pace of change (actually the Hillary supporters asking Obama to wait his "turn" would more closely fit that description), than he is to MLK himself? Substantive debate? I'm all ears.

                "Not This Time"

                by pragprogress on