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I can't vote for a Repub.  I'm sorry, Kos, I just can't do it.  I understand the logic; yes, it would help us out if the GOP race lingered on and stayed a 3-man race.  Winning MI would certainly help Romney's campaign.  But he doesn't need our help and dismissing tomorrow's Michigan Democratic primary as a "straw poll" is bad strategy for Democrats.

I'll say right off the bat that I'm not a Hillary supporter.  My dream candidate would be Al Gore.  I'm currently leaning towards Edwards but Obama would be an acceptable second choice.  As we all know, neither of them will be on the ballot tomorrow.  They caved in to the DNC and Iowa and NH and are punishing Michigan voters for something a decision we did not make (a topic for another diary).  The DNC is also currently not planning on seating Michigan's delegates at the convention.

I agree with our local lawmakers; that will not stick.  No state will be disenfrancised at the convention.  If Clinton manages to win all of Michigan's delegates, she could theoretically count them in her column in Denver.  If 15% (or more) of the voters here (statewide? per district?) vote "Uncommitted," there will at least be a viable percentage of delegates who will be able to align themselves with an alternate candidate.

Another problem with the "Democrats for Romney" campaign is that Mitt Romney does not need our help.  He has been the front-runner in the MI GOP primary for months (EDIT: up until recently, IIRC), he is consolidating all his resources here, and he is vastly outspending his rivals.  Other than a lone McCain commercial, his ads are the only ones I've seen on television here, and Romney and Ron Paul yard signs are the only ones I've seen (other than a lonely Kucinich sign).

(EDIT: I forgot to add that Romney is also the current GOP delegate leader.)

The fact of the matter is that Iowa and New Hampshire's control over the primary season will hopefully end soon (I know, the MSM and the average American may forget all about this issue until the next election, but I still hold out hope).  We need a national primary and we need candidates with a backbone who will be willing to stand up to these "early states."  But for now, we have to play the game with the rules that we have.  I am a Democrat and I plan to vote in the Democratic primary.

Originally posted to Simply Agrestic on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:36 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  tips / comments (4+ / 0-)

    I wasn't old enough to vote in the 2000 primary, but I would have voted for Gore, not McCain.

    "Is it possible that we should prepare against other threats besides terrorists?" - Al Gore

    by Simply Agrestic on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:36:57 AM PST

    •  I see zero basis (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      karateexplosions

      For your second paragraph.  There is absolutely no reason for them to seat Michigan or Florida's delegates.  McCain has also been out-polling Romney in MI since the first of the year.  He DOES need help to be sure of winning it, and we are better off if he does.

      I am a Democrat and I am not voting in the Democratic primary.  More power to you if you are.

      Grand Rapids Michigan | -5.75, -5.54 Obama! Not that my vote counts...

      by TooFolkGR on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:40:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The delegates will be seated. You really think (4+ / 0-)

        the nominee is going to allow two large states to go unrepresented at the convention?  No way.

        "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-5.38, -7.08)

        by AUBoy2007 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:42:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It depends on who the nominee is .. (4+ / 0-)

          and how the delegates are proportioned ... if the Michigan delegates decide the nominee .. then they won't be seated until a nominee is decided ..  if Clinton or Obama wins going away ... then they'll be seated like everyone else .. cause Michigan's won't matter

        •  You are saying "The Nominee" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          a wolf raised by boys

          Which implies a presumptive nominee.  If there is a known nominee before the convention (like say Hillary has 3,000 delegates WITHOUT FL and MI) then yes, she will probably opt to seat them.  Or Obama for that matter.  

          The DNC already canceled Michigan's hotel reservations and the rooms were promptly snapped up by someone else.  So at this point even if one of our front-runners wins an overwhelming majority of delegates and decides Michigan and Florida can attend the convention, they are sleeping on the bus.

          In any event, the scenario you describe is meaningless.  If Obama is going to win with or without our delegates, who cares if they vote?  Same for Clinton.

          Grand Rapids Michigan | -5.75, -5.54 Obama! Not that my vote counts...

          by TooFolkGR on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:46:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I disagree. (0+ / 0-)

            If Obama is going to win with or without our delegates, who cares if they vote?  Same for Clinton.

            They both would.  It's posturing.  At that point it's nothing to do with the vote total, but merely a way for the nominee to show they support the state and want them to have a voice.  Who would give up an opportunity to do so?

            "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-5.38, -7.08)

            by AUBoy2007 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:52:50 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nonsense. (0+ / 0-)

              Nobody ever has any idea how many delegates the nominee won or lost by.  Ever.  Someone wins, everybody else loses.  Unless it's a brokered convention, the actual delegate numbers are COMPLETELY forgotten the SECOND someone gets enough to win it.

              Grand Rapids Michigan | -5.75, -5.54 Obama! Not that my vote counts...

              by TooFolkGR on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:54:12 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not saying it has anything to do with the (0+ / 0-)

                actual vote tallies.  It's the symbolism of the thing.

                "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-5.38, -7.08)

                by AUBoy2007 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:56:57 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Electoral Votes Count (0+ / 0-)

        I don't see how a party can expect to carry a state in the general election if it completely shuts that state out of its nominating convention. Because of the general election risk, some delegates from Michigan & Florida will eventually be seated, and the primary may have some effect on their distribution. Vote accordingly.

    •  But ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Simply Agrestic

      why not vote to lessen Tagg's inheritance   ;-)

    •  Oops, I did it again. (0+ / 0-)

      Ghh I forgot to check the recent list again; philgoblue posted a similar, longer diary about an hour ago with a much stronger argument and pictures and everything. :)  Hey, I am at work, I just wanted to get my point across.  I'll delete this diary if y'all say so.

      "Is it possible that we should prepare against other threats besides terrorists?" - Al Gore

      by Simply Agrestic on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:46:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  First off, there have been some polls showing (0+ / 0-)

    that McCain was beating Romney.

    Secondly, if, let's say, Obama runs away with it, then Clinton will eventually release her delegates.  If Clinton runs away with it, then it won't matter.  And if it is tied, then I sure hope to god the nominee isn't decided by a state where only one of the candidates was on the ballot.

    "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-5.38, -7.08)

    by AUBoy2007 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:40:21 AM PST

  •  I agree with this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gator, Pager, Simply Agrestic

    as I can't really believe that, if it came to that, the DNC would not seat any delegates from a swing state.  Not gonna happen.  I think it should, since this primary was held in deliberate violation of the rules, but it won't if the Michigan delegates would be crucial to the outcome of the race.  And you are correct that it is looking like Romney is going to win anyways.  So if I lived there, I'd vote in the Dem primary.

  •  Not Comfortable with It (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mcfly

    Not sure why ...  Just doesn't seem to add up entirely to a positive for us.  Maybe this is because I don't believe that Romney is yet down for the count.

    Obama, save me from your followers.

    by bink on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:45:36 AM PST

  •  I respect your view (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AUBoy2007, arogue7, Simply Agrestic

    But I think that given the lack of choice in the Democratic primary, it does make sense to cross over if you are willing to do it. Your vote is personal and I can't dictate what you should do, but if I lived in Michigan, I'd definitely vote in the Republican primary, because I am scared to death of McCain being their nominee.

  •  Your very first sentence says yo get it... (0+ / 0-)

    ...your second shows you don't.

    If class war is being waged in America, my class is clearly winning... - Warren Buffett

    by dj angst on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:47:45 AM PST

  •  Yes he does (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TooFolkGR

    he needs to beat McCain big, not just by a point, end his Mac comeback madness

  •  The only use of voting uncommitted (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AUBoy2007, TooFolkGR, Simply Agrestic

    is that a strong Uncommitted vote would embarrass Clinton.  If you are a Obama or Edwards supporter, you have weigh that against the possibility of extending the Rethug primary with a Romney victory, which is within reach.

    I would go with a Romney vote.

    •  Fair enough... (0+ / 0-)

      ...if you think that preventing Clinton from sweeping Michigan would have a negligible effect on the delegate count.  Honestly, you're probably right.  We only have 128 delegates up for grab out of the 3,515 possible (not counting superdelegates).  So if "Uncommitted" manages, say, 25% of the vote, that's only 32 delegates that Clinton doesn't get, or just under 1% of the total.

      Still, I would just feel nasty voting for a Republican.  And I don't want my name sent to the Michigan GOP, either.

      "Is it possible that we should prepare against other threats besides terrorists?" - Al Gore

      by Simply Agrestic on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:06:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  and, oh yeah, Romney sucks! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simply Agrestic

    thanks for the diary. Mitt Romney is the worst GOP candidate outside Guiliani, only a goddamn fool would vote for him.

    the time to rise has been engaged...

    by catchaz on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 08:58:43 AM PST

  •  Vote Dodd. Send a message on wiretaps. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simply Agrestic, catchaz

    He's still on the ballot.

    Democratic Candidate for US Senate (Wisconsin 2012)
    Court certified Marijuana Expert

    by ben masel on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:16:03 AM PST

    •  Totally useless (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Simply Agrestic

      votes for Dodd right now are a waste of a vote, IMO.

      Michigan is a no gain situation for Hillary Clinton, if she wins it is no big deal, if she loses to Uncommitted, then it is an embarassment for her which will be played across the late night shows, etc.

      So the real question for non-Hillary supporters is whether the potential of embarassing Clinton (and possibly slowing down her momentum) is worth letting McCain run away with the nomination.

      As an Obama supporter, I say no.

  •  One point on the MI ballot. If you don't know it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simply Agrestic

    already. If you use the "write-in" line on your ballot it will be nullified if that person's name has not been duly reported to the Sec. of State.
    Mark Brewer, Michigan Democratic Party, Chairman
    explained it on Cspan's Washington Journal this morning.

    I belong to no organized political party, I'm a Democrat. -Will Rogers

    by geez53 on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:16:31 AM PST

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