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UPDATE: I will not change what I originally wrote in this diary. I still feel the way I do about this, but I've also calmed down from this morning, and realized I missed a few things. You will find the new additions to this diary after the original text.

So, while waiting for class to start, I saw this.

And my ire was set off...

First off: Yes, I can see that CNN's spinning the article a bit, especially with that headline. I know they're not exactly the bastion of news they (sort of) once were. But I'm not gonna get into bashing CNN, because it's irrelevant to my point. Spun article or not, this is still a true situation. And that's what pissed me off. This shit doesn't help us at all right now.

I admire Berkeley. I really do. But please, don't do this. Not only do you give the Republicans more "Hey, look! Hippies!" ammo, don't go after the recruiters. Please. I don't believe recruiters should be in our high schools, but I damn sure believe they have the right to have an office in a city. And most recruiters are simply doing their job. Yes, there are the bad flakes, but the majority of recruiters are not this. Our armed forces are voluntary. VOLUNTARY. If someone wants to sign up for the armed forces, especially now, let them sign up. They know the risks. They know damn well what they're getting into. And they believe that despite all the risks, it's worth it to them to sign up and serve their nation through the military. And you know what? For the place that spawned the Free Speech Movement, trying to impede on their right to take action based on their beliefs is absolutely appalling. APPALING. It is not the recruiters' fault our soldiers are being used like Kleenex. That blame goes solely to the warhawks like Rumsfeld and Cheney, and all their ilk.

My cousin was part of one of the first waves of Marines into Baghdad. My aunt's National Guard unit was called up to serve in Mosul. I have two friends who joined the military after high school, and I'm scared as hell for them because I don't know where they went and haven't heard from them in ages. I have every reason to hate the recruiters, too. But guess what?

I don't.

All those people made the conscious choice to serve their country. They weren't tricked by recruiters into joining. They chose to join. They chose do the civic duty they owe to their nation through joining the military.    

This aggravated me the most:

Protester Sharon Adams added: "This recruiting station recruits people to go fight and then once they fight and they serve their country, our country doesn't take care of them. That's a shame."

SO STOP PROTESTING THE RECRUITERS AND STOP THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE OF OUR COUNTRY WHO AREN'T TAKING CARE OF THEM!

If you don't want someone you know to join the armed forces, tell them in a civil manner that you don't want them to join. Explain to them why you think it's not a good idea. Let them hear a balanced argument. Tell them about AmeriCorps, PeaceCorps, the Red Cross - any number of aid groups.  Let them do their research. Let them know about every option they could possibly take to serve the nation besides the military.  

But ultimately, the final choice of whether to join or not is theirs. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, TO TRY TO IMPEDE THEM FROM THAT CHOICE.

Do not tell me civic duty is a lie. If you live in a country, you better do something to support it. END OF STORY. That's what civic duty is: Supporting your country, in any way you feel is the right way to do so. It's not just jury duty or the armed forces. Volunteering, voting - even if it's for a Republican because you're a Republican - doing everything you can to take this country back - that's also doing your civic duty, too.

AND DO NOT TELL ME VOTING DOESN'T DO SHIT. I've heard this shit since 2003 here in Oregon, and I'm absolutely sick of it. I stopped going to protests because of the number of people whing but not willing to take any actual action. If you believe the system is entirely broken and want a third party candidate, GET THE HELL OUT THERE AND VOTE FOR THAT THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE. If that candidate gets enough votes - hey, look! People will have to pay attention to them! They won't be on the backburner! You might actually get the change you want! Don't you sit there and whine about how you're being ignored, then tell me you're gonna stay home on voting day and dress up like a clown to protest. If you do nothing, you get nothing. End of discussion. If you wanna live in America, you support America. Otherwise, get your ass out of America.  

And finally: Berkeley? Even if you do get the recruiters to leave, the people who would've joined up at the office in your city will simply find their way to another recruiting office in the next city over. If they've made up their minds, you can't stop them. And you have no right to stop them. A measure to impede them from taking the path they feel is the best way to do the civic duty they owe to their country? That's repulsive. The recruiters are not our problem. It's the people far above the recruiters who need to be stopped.

I admire you, Berkeley - but today? Not so much.

UPDATE: After a bit of cooling down, I feel I must add to this, after seeing some of the responses and some of the things I  missed:

  1. I do not hate Code Pink. I never said I'm against Code Pink I admire Code Pink a lot. I do not object to their dislike of recruiters. I object to the measure passed by the city telling the recruiters "Get out or we'll force you out." I don't know if it's a binding measure, but it certainly sounds like one. I'm glad to notice it encourage non-violent protests, but still - let the military recruit the people who volunteer for service and focus on stopping the people who actually order our troops where to go. That's how we'll stop the war and bring our troops home. Blocking recruiters will just piss off a lot of former military people - including many Democrats.  
  1. On the flip side, this Semper Fi Act bullshit in retaliation by the Republicans there? That pisses me off about as equally. To get "revenge" on the university for what the City Council did is just as enraging. To punish the college is just as abhorrent as telling the recruiters to get  out. I hope the bill dies, and it's a shame it was even written up.
  1. I will not back down from "If you wanna live in America, you support America. Otherwise, get your ass out of America." No, as one comment has pointed, it's not very progressive. But I'm not a full progressive. I am a semi-progressive moderate Democrat. I love my country, and I believe strongly in the concept of giving back to my country in order to keep it going. If you hate America so much that you're not willing to do anything to keep it going (e.g., working towards getting the cronies out of power, in the case of most of the people here) then why do you want to keep living in America? If you can't answer that question, I won't write up a city council measure effectively trying to evict you, but I will certainly ask that you leave and let the people who are trying to fix it continue trying to fix it. Simple. Sorry for the black and white, but I have no time nor patience for people who aren't willing to take their convictions into action and do something about getting our nation back on track. I'm sick and tired of 8 years of hearing people around me whine that the system is broken, then watching as they sit there and do nothing. You gain nothing by doing nothing. Even if you think you might not gain anything by doing something, at least try. Please. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Originally posted to RSRS on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:13 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Yes (8+ / 0-)

    They ought to go after the people who sent the Marines in, no the people who serve and do as they are told.

    (-8.12, -7.33) Doe maar normaal, dan doe je al gek genoeg.

    by AndrewMC on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:15:41 PM PST

  •  My Take: (8+ / 0-)

    Code Pink is definitely on the wrong end of this fight.  If they’ve got a quibble with the war, they should take their fight to DC, where the provocateurs of this war work.  Attacking the Marine Corps is very foolish and looks amateurish.  The men and women of the Marines literally helped save our way of life in countless conflicts.  They’re the ones who fought and died in the Pacific during World War II, so I don’t want to hear any lunatics criticizing them irresponsibly.

    It’s not their fault they were sent into Iraq.  It’s not their choice, the government points and the Marines go in to house the opposition.  First ones in.  Last ones out.  That’s how they roll.  So, I would say to Code Pink, "Stop attacking the heroes and go attack the real @$$h013$ in this situation...the Congresspersons, Senators, and President who authorized this war."

    It really irks me when people attack the military for things they have no control over.  It’s a complete lack of judgment and just a petty grab for headlines.  It also makes the anti-war movement look extremely ridiculous and damages their cause’s credibility.

    "It's better to vote for what you want, and not get it, than to vote for what you don't want, and get it." Eugene Debs, 1912.

    by cybrestrike on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:23:16 PM PST

    •  Agreed. I was disgusted by this... (3+ / 0-)

      ...starting a couple of weeks ago when the city council passed that resolution.  

      When this thing happened, I stopped by the recruiting office on my way to a client's site, thinking to ask the recruiters if and what we can do to support them.  The office had closed for the day but Code Pink where there, so I had a few words with the Code Pinks (Pinkos?:-).  

      One of their issues is anti-gay discrimination.  I told them that was going to be gone as of the next president.  (Yes, and that would rob them of an issue, not that consistency counts, Code Pink wouldn't want gay folks joining up either!)

      One of their issues is waterboarding.  I told them that the military opposes torture because once you break out of the Geneva convention, your own people are at risk of the other side doing likewise.  

      Then they were all, "we just don't want this in our neighborhood."  I told 'em that's what they righties say about gay marriage: not in our state.  Hoo-boy did that get their goat!

      If Code Pink are serious about opposing the war, they should call for a tax strike and stop paying taxes themselves.  But that would involve taking personal risks so...

  •  I have to agree as well... (5+ / 0-)

    ...I was very surprised a couple of weeks ago when they  voted to tell the Marines to move out. Personally, I've been disappointed in Berkeley for a long time. I spent more than a few years there but every time I go back, the city seems a little bit worse. It's certainly not as vibrant as it once was.

  •  I Too Agree With their Overall Sentiment (0+ / 0-)

    But their execution is--putting it mildly--misguided.

    GR, MI | -5.75, -5.54 | Make the silence listen to the dream behind the voice | Go Obama Go!

    by TooFolkGR on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:23:56 PM PST

  •  I'd like it if none of my taxpayer money (5+ / 0-)

    went in to military recruiting anywhere in the country. Everyone knows there's a military; a well-publicized PO box and website where interested parties can write for more information should be more than sufficient for the entire USA.

  •  Hmmm! (8+ / 0-)

    If you wanna live in America, you support America. Otherwise, get your ass out of America.  

    Wher have I heard that before? Sorry, I think a community has a right, if not a duty to stand up for their beliefs, and I won't be going anywhere thank you very much!!

    Attention Waxman Staffers! Clean up on aisle 1600! huttotex 3/27/07

    by reflectionsv37 on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:28:17 PM PST

  •  As soon as their earmaks (4+ / 0-)

    are threatened, they'll fold like a cheap suit.  Principles, schminciples.

  •  Good for Berkeley -nt- (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Argyrios

    To me, the absolute most important issue ANY of us has, and this nation has, is that we are currently being ruled by a gang of immoral war criminals. -Hornito

    by discocarp on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:31:31 PM PST

  •  Totally agree with the diarist (6+ / 0-)

    Nobody on the left is helped by this at all.  This protest won't help end the war, nor will it help in any way the troops coming home wounded in body or soul.  

    I equate that protest with the Westboro Baptist Church.  Total psychos who are only out to get attention for themselves by attacking the military, an institution that still remains very positive in the eyes of a vast majority of Americans.

  •  To defend Berkeley, (6+ / 0-)

    The military is not beyond reproach. All soldiers are not ipso facto heroes. Let's stop pretending otherwise.

    I get recruited all the time via direct mail, and the propaganda bullshit on those glossy fliers is utterly contemptible.

    Soldiers in this country indeed are not treated well. That blame goes to the top. But don't you think that recruiters have a moral duty to tell their recuits how becoming a soldier results in statistically MUCH HIGHER chances of becoming homeless, getting divorced, becoming mentally ill, and committing suicide?

    And don't you agree that recruiters fail in this moral duty routinely, not because of any malice, but because of the way the system is set up? They wouldn't meet their goals if they disclosed that VITAL information -- material information that recruits have a right to know before signing away their life in a binding contract.

    Kudos to Berkeley for combating that system by standing up to defend its youth and get a dissenting voice into the culture-promulgated fetishization of the military. Kudos to the protesters using nonviolent means to "impede" the recruiters efforts -- by telling potential recruits the truth.

    Finally:

    If you wanna live in America, you support America. Otherwise, get your ass out of America.  

    This is utterly inappropriate, especially on this site. I find this statement much more offensive than anything Berkeley has done.

    •  Totally disagree (6+ / 0-)

      Have you ever seen the graduation ceremony of Marine recruits, when they receive their Eagle, Globe and Anchor?  Those people have pride in their country and history.

      This doesn't help get our anti-war stance across.  This won't help end the war.  This won't get Bush/Cheney impeached, nor will it get any kind of help for the troops returning home.  All this does is get on the news and give the right wing another talking point.

      "Low-information" voters who sit at home and watch American Idol see this sort of thing and are turned off.  They DON'T LIKE THIS.  How does this help?

      •  Might as well send money to the RNC. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        G2geek

        That is the effect Berkeley is having, at any rate.

      •  Oh, yes, let's have a little kabuki show (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        stridergambit, debedb, bucadibeppo

        You need a dose of Maj Gen Smedley Butler, USMC (ret).

        The military does in fact have rituals and conditioning to turn normally-socialized kids into killers and martyrs.

        But you shouldn't be fooled by it. The military's job is to break things and kill people. And in the US, the military has traditionally been used to make rich people richer.

        And before you tell me I've never seen any of this, I've attended graduation at Annapolis for a close relative, and Dick Cheney was the commencement speaker. Yah, I been there.

        Low-information voters? They're getting it now -- their friends are coming back in boxes, without limbs, and mentally ill. Code Pink doesn't really enter in to it for them.

        •  Bullshit: the military's job is to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          just another vet

          prevent "killing people and breaking things".  Specifically,  American people and American things (and,  sometimes,  those of our allies).

          Ideally,  it does that by scaring off those who want to kill and break.  Sometimes,  when the threat doesn't suffice,  it's necessary to resort to actual violence.

          Military rituals don't "turn normally-socialized kids into killers and martyrs":  they take the innate drive to defend one's genome,  and channel it into the defense of people for whom the individual ordinarily wouldn't sacrifice.

          Our military has "traditionally been used" for many kinds of ends.  Some bad,  some good.  It's our responsibility as citizens to ensure that they're only used for good purposes.  A responsibility that we blew off during the run-up to Iraq.

          Attacking them because we failed in our obligation not to abuse their willingness to sacrifice for us is misguided at best,  and obscene at worst.

      •  Thank you for a civil response. My take: (4+ / 0-)

        Initial matters:

        No, I have never seen that graduation ceremony. I have no doubt that those people have pride in their country.

        But I mistrust anyone who has unqualified "pride" in American history. Our history is what it is. It is not something to be "proud" of. Slavery... Genocide... Imperialism... I view our history very much as a mixed bag, with many elements that we should be trying to escape, not exalt.

        Now on to practical matters:

        I agree that if you look at the picture narrowly (and I don't mean that in any pejorative sense, I simply mean focusing on a smaller overall picture in terms of scope and timeline), the protesters' efforts are likely counterproductive with respect to ending the war.

        However, I think that if you look at what they are doing more broadly, their dissent is vital. Worship of the military is becoming our de facto state religion. It disturbs me. Look what happened to MoveOn just for criticizing Petraeus.

        It should never be unacceptable in civil society to criticize a state institution or actors within that institution -- especially when that institution is the military, the arm with the physical power lurking in the background of our free society.

        Healthy societies include exactly this type of dissent and protest. A society that does not tolerate this type of dissent and protest is sick and undemocratic. That is why I applaud the courage of these protesters. I think that we need to keep up a steady stream of precedent in people's minds that American society includes people of all political beliefs, and that none of these political beliefs warrant a negative official response from the state.

        Today, it is economic punishment, as Vitter is proposing. It is a small step from that to imprisonment. Unacceptable retribution from the state becomes more likely to be tolerated by the public, the longer an atmosphere of unchallenged worship of the military remains the status quo. Future protest is now less likely to shock the public. The protesters in effect are reminding everyone: each of us has the freedom to do this, or something analogous with respect to our own quarrels with our government.

        That is why I applaud the protesters' courage. It is not the same as the courage of a soldier; it carries much less risk. But it is no less vital to our democracy.

    •  Isn't it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tuscarora

      our duty as citizens of this republic to support and defend it? I don't agree with the last part of the statement, but I do agree with the first part.

      "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

      by just another vet on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:50:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The republic (4+ / 0-)

        is not identical to the military. The republic is the land and the people. Not its government or its institutions.

        It is our duty as citizens and Americans to vigorously criticize our government and its institutions.

        That is one of our noblest and most counter-intuitive contributions to world history: Dissent makes for a stronger republic than blind exaltation and obedience.

        Dissent gave birth to this nation. Our duty is to tolerate and even exalt dissent. Not blindly worship the people who run, manage, administer, and yes, even defend, this country.

        •  but there's a difference between... (0+ / 0-)

          ...having a civil protest, and having the city pass a "you're not welcome here" resolution and allocate a dedicated parking space for the protesters.  

          I would have no problem with Code Pink setting up a table next to the door of the recruitment office and calmly engaging potential recruits, or handing out literature, or whatever.  

          I have a major problem with what the city did, and with the way Code Pink is behaving.  

          •  I can agree that the city government went too far (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bucadibeppo

            with a parking space, but Code Pink's behavior is totally acceptable.  This is still America, where criticizing the military and protesting is still legal (for the moment, anyway).

            "If America leads a blessed life, then why did God put all of our oil under people who hate us?" -- Jon Stewart. -8.38, -6.67

            by stridergambit on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 01:14:19 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  You're partially right. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            G2geek

            I have no problem with the "you're not welcome here" resolution, but you have a good point with respect to the parking space. I did not know about that. At that point, the city government is giving something of monetary value to a group because of their political beliefs. They should not have done that.

            •  bingo! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              just another vet

              In effect the city is saying "you can park here if you believe and support X, but not if you believe and support Y."  

              So here's what to do about that.  Occupy the parking space.  Just drive over and park there.  Grab a slice of pizza at Arinell's nearby, and tell Code Pink you're there to munch your lunch and protest the city's policy.

              If Code Pink doesn't like it, they can call the cops.  

              Or if they don't like cops either, they can call a hippie!

      •  So, according to what you say, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bucadibeppo

        we should have supported what happened at My Lai?

        "If America leads a blessed life, then why did God put all of our oil under people who hate us?" -- Jon Stewart. -8.38, -6.67

        by stridergambit on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 01:10:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wow, reaching much? (0+ / 0-)

          I guess I must love me some genocide. Yep, that's it. Joined the military to kill babies and rape their mommas.

          What gets me about this whole comment thread is that it feels like two different conversations at once. Half of us are trying to say "just don't hate the people wearing the uniform" and the other half are talking about the first amendment. Look, the Iraq war, the out of control military-industrial complex, all of it, are all due to the failure of the citizens of this nation to uphold their duty of making sure the people holding elected office are doing their jobs. All the ranting in the world won't change that fact. Blaming it on the msm, the schools, whatever, won't change that fact. The fact is, if you hate what our soldiers are doing in Berkley or Iraq, you have no one to blame except every single one of us. Every citizen, every voter is at fault. Protesting some recruiters because the American people have failed our nation makes as much sense as protesting a cow because McDonald's serves hamburgers.

          I am not proud of many of the things our country has done. But I am damn proud of the fact that you and I can have this conversation and not be beheaded. And that is all due to the sacrifice of many brave people, people who you might very well disagree with on about everything, but who non-the-less would die for you and me. So no, don't support what happened at My Lai. But put the blame where blame is due. If we hate what our military is doing then why aren't we all marching on Washington right now, all of us? Because that is where the power lies, that is where the decisions are made.

          "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

          by just another vet on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 03:13:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Protesting the Marines is a Waste (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    just another vet

    Anyone heard of "just doing my job?"  That's all the marines are doing in Berkeley.  

    I can point to a hell of a lot more causes that are worthy of the time and effort to protest.

  •  totally disagree with the diarist (3+ / 0-)
    and I think kos should get a little bit concerned that military recruiters are invading with their propaganda.

    nobody says the individual troops are not honorable.  We do believe them to be mislead particularly in this time when they are being asked to die for oil.  Many of them agree, like this veteran for peace. http://youtube.com/.... If the American people think joining the military during the Iraq war is a good idea how come you are having a recruitment problem?  How come you lowering the education, age and fitness standards?  http://www.usatoday.com/....

    I am guessing most kids who join at this point are among the 30% who still believe Al Qaeda and 9/11 had something to do with Saddam Hussein. http://www.zogby.com/....

    While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.”

    “Ninety-three percent said that removing weapons of mass destruction is not a reason for U.S. troops being there,” said Pollster John Zogby, President and CEO of Zogby International. “Instead, that initial rationale went by the wayside and, in the minds of 68% of the troops, the real mission became to remove Saddam Hussein.” Just 24% said that “establishing a democracy that can be a model for the Arab World" was the main or a major reason for the war. Only small percentages see the mission there as securing oil supplies (11%) or to provide long-term bases for US troops in the region (6%).

    Code Pink disabuses them of this notion.  More power to them.
    http://www.zogby.com/...

    Civil disobedience( deliberately violating the law is a completely honarable tradtions.  MLK, Gandhi, Rosa Parks, Henry David Thoreux, all violated the law.  Mark Twain said.  

    There are two kinds of patriotism -- monarchical patriotism and republican patriotism. In the one case the government and the king may rightfully furnish you their notions of patriotism; in the other, neither the government nor the entire nation is privileged to dictate to any individual what the form of his patriotism shall be. The gospel of the monarchical patriotism is: "The King can do no wrong." We have adopted it with all its servility, with an unimportant change in the wording: "Our country, right or wrong!" We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had:-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.

    If people click the code pink tag they will see very clearly that it has protested government officials and that the same crowd bitched when it did.

  •  You beat me to this Diary.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    just another vet

    I was going to write something on this after I got home from work...

    This is just stupid...I am a Vet, I am against this war, however, I will not protest our armend forces...if you want to protest the war...go after the folks who started it, they are in D.C., not your local Marine Corps recruiting station.

    Never thought I, an Army vet would ever stick up for the Jarheads...but this is a case where I have to.

    I was a Soldier - I am a Soldier - I will always be a Soldier

    by Mark E Andersen on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 01:07:45 PM PST

  •  Get real you idiot! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stridergambit, debedb, bucadibeppo

    Amerika!  Love it or leave it?

    That's really progressive dude.  You're clearly at the right site.

    I love and admire those code pink women.  At least they have the guts to speak up when people ARE DYING for no good reason!  People like you should just shut the fuck up (IMHO).  What a stupid diary.

    "The truth shall set you free - but first it'll piss you off." Gloria Steinem

    Iraq Moratorium

    by One Pissed Off Liberal on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 01:10:18 PM PST

  •  I still consider the recruiter (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stridergambit, gmhowell, bucadibeppo

    who lied me into volunteering for the Army back in the 60's a bad guy.  From what I have seen of the current crop of recruiters they are no different.   They minimize the risk, exaggerate benefits and still tell people that fighting in Iraq is getting the people who did 9/11.  Heroes? No way!

    eschew obfuscation

    by jimG on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 01:12:26 PM PST

  •  We need to teach people what a scam it is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joy Busey

    to talk about 'serving the country' when what we are really refrring to is 'killing and dying in some rich asshole's illegal and immoral war'.

    People need to learn that you serve your country best by refusing to kill innocent people for some filthy-rich evil asshole's profit.

    Teach your children well.  Teach them to protest evil and to resist tyranny - and to see through simple-minded bullshit.

    "The truth shall set you free - but first it'll piss you off." Gloria Steinem

    Iraq Moratorium

    by One Pissed Off Liberal on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 01:20:25 PM PST

  •  Everybody who rec'd this diary should be ashamed! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gmhowell, Joy Busey

    "The truth shall set you free - but first it'll piss you off." Gloria Steinem

    Iraq Moratorium

    by One Pissed Off Liberal on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 01:26:02 PM PST

  •  I may turn some of my recent replies on the matter (2+ / 0-)
    into a blogpost tomarrow afternoon, or in the next few days. Hope you try to put in on recommends. These post appear coordinated.   Read my recent posting history.  The other thread I was involved with admitted to bing a military recruiter.  However, it is my mom's bithday tonight and I have to go out shortly.

    I think this is organized recruiter propaganda.

    •  Recruiters are liars. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gmhowell, bucadibeppo

      Those who want in will sign up anyway.

      Before 9-11 a friend of ours died and we 'inherited' her three teens. One was already on his own, one we adopted to get her through school, the other was in boot camp at Paris Island at the ripe old age of 17.

      He'd been lured by the promise of education, a cushy recruiting job, and staying with his "Buddy" (two-fer!) for the entire enlistment. I informed Uncle General that if he put that boy in harm's way he'd never hear the end of me - I outrank him! Of course, I pulled some real rank too (military brat, military wife). That inherited son now has a nice stateside job, will probably do 20 years, his buddy died in Iraq just a year later.

      Back when there was a draft regular people had a stake in the issues. Now it's just the poor kids or those in trouble with the law, offered a way out. If they live, maybe a future. If they're screwed for life, don't expect any help. It's disgusting, and the people with the LEAST respect for our troops are the assholes in D.C. who use them as cannon fodder while lying out both sides of their crooked mouths.

      Good for Berkeley.

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