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Let's go to Tennessee, October 5, 2006. When Harold Ford was running for Senate, the TN Republican Party put out this mailer:

This was noteworthy because the Republicans darkened Ford up considerably. The first image below is the source image (from Ford's then-congressional website), the next one is a straight up conversion to black and white. The last is the photo that ran in the mailer.

At the time, state Democratic Party chair Bob Tuke's outrage was noted in the Knoxville News Sentinel:

They have darkened Harold Ford’s image to make a racist statement.

Now people can quibble whether Ford was darkened to make a racist statement, or whether he was darkened to be made "more sinister" (a difference without much distinction in my book), but clearly, the state Democratic Party chief had an appropriate reaction.

It says something ill of us as a society when darkening a person's features makes them look more sinister. And doing that to an African American (or Latino, or Arab, or other darker-skin people) is particularly egregious.

Some may want to explain it away as "business as usual". But in this case, that's not "business as usual" I'm willing to tolerate.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:04 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  great part... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I wish I could have a side part like that. Oh well

    •  As a printer... (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FlipYrWhig, AnnieM, Chicagoa, OneGyT, eshafto

      The over all photo is darker,  are the other photos on this print that we can compare it with?

      •  As a Tennesean (17+ / 0-)

        who saw all of these ads, and heard the radio, I can tell you what else is coming down the pike:

        1. Allegations that Obama dated white women in college or high school, combined with racy pictures;
        1. Subtle references to color, such as Corker's flyer that said that they differed "by more than their school colors;"
        1. Lots and lots of basketball and NBA thug references;
        1. Anthing else they can think of, to cast Obama as an "other."

        And yes, the photos in the mailers and ads were darkened. And yes, they changed the dynamic of that race dramatically, at least for the five percent who were swayed by them.

        •  but i'm talking about printing... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          that was a limited color print, photos tend to be darker,  where there lighter photos in that run of prints?

          •  It looks like a cheap newpapaer (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            phenry, vcmvo2, eshafto

            ink on newsprint sort of image.

            "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

            by Salo on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:23:01 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  more on the Obama video (0+ / 0-)

              Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but I've got a diary analyzing the "darkened" Obama video in the Clinton ad.

              •  Don't expect (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                Kos to read his own blog, or read answers to his posts.

                He is another royal 'we'. You are not hi-jacking the thread, you are being right on topic.  

                The stupidity/hypocrisy/double standards of this site knows no bounds, and then they whine about Hillary supporters complaining.  

                Sometimes, a cackle is the best medicine!

                by ghost2 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 02:44:41 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  I can't say about that particular mailer (0+ / 0-)

            because it went to Republicans. But I have seen others, and if there were lighter versions of them they didn't get published or mailed in my neck of the woods.
            Nothing like seeing darkened pictures of Ford while listening to jungle drums on the radio.....

            •  It isn't just darkness (2+ / 0-)

              To Make the thrid ( dark) image,
              the COLOR of the transformation has to be changed.

              DISCLAIMER / CV : in 1992 I taught my first Photoshop / Forensics class.  Of course, your average college art student is better than I ever was at PS, but  at ONE time, it was pretty exotic.

              KOS's example (image #2 ) is indicative of several ways of changing a color image to B&W.

              To get to image #3, you have to work at it. And you have to KNOW what is the result you want. It WASN'T an accident.

              You can't just press the "Nigger" button.

              The greater the effort, the greater the Intent.
              Racism is alive and sick in our beloved country.

              I miss Lord Buckley

              by slowheels on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:47:19 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Actually, as a one-time printer myself (3+ / 0-)

                The darkness of a printed half-tone will depend not only on the quality of the image, but the quality of the paper.  

                Just to start off with, the second picture is not a conversion to black and white.  It is greyscale, as you can clearly see if you enlarge it.  Printing presses do not print in a series of greys.  It does have to be converted to a true black and white, where only pure black ink is used.  Then the quality of the image is going to depend on the number of dots per inch are used.

                Often times the screen size of the image is not coarse enough for very absorbent, cheap paper and therefore the individual half-tone dots easily get blown out, creating a very dark and muddy picture.

                Also, just carrying too much ink - which can happen if the half-tone is running alongside a solid, can have the same effect.

                I have worked at the highest ends and lowest ends of printing, while most people do not appreciate how difficult it actually is.  Saying the color of the transformation of the picture would have to be changed is complete bunk - especially if you do not know the color of the paper!

                To me it just looks like your average cheap and low-quality print run.  Which is completely typical in a mass mailing.  

                Give me a sample of the piece and a loupe, and then we can just begin to talk about what happened.

            •  The point I want to make is that it's not (0+ / 0-)

              about the people whose images were doctored.  It's about the people, the voters, whom those who published these pictures intended to deceive.

              While this is probably not the time to make a legislative intervention, I think that the use of one candidate's image or words by another candidate without permission should be prohibited.  The law recognizes that claiming ownership of another's work without appropriate credit or permission is plagiarism.  Why should a positive appropriation of another's words or image be subject to more strictures than negative ones?

              I know why they do it.  Because "intent" is hard to prove.  But, at the least, we should decide that the appropriation of another candidate's image or words is presumably negative and worthy of opprobrium.  Practicing deception on the public ought not to go without sanction.

              How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

              by hannah on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:31:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  The "White" half of Barack dated White (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Coherent Viewpoint

          girls in college!!

          Aloha  ..  .. ..

        •  A lesson in how offset printing works (18+ / 0-)

          Black and white photos are reproduced in print using the halftone technique. A halftoned photograph consists of thousands of tiny dots of varying sizes. When liquid ink is used to print onto ordinary paper, the ink spreads slightly due to capillary action in the fibers of the paper. For text and line art, this usually isn't a problem, because the letterforms and strokes are large and spread widely apart, so the migration usually isn't noticeable to the naked eye. In a halftoned photograph, however, each of those little black dots gets slightly bigger. Because the dots are so small, it only takes a tiny amount of migration to make the photo noticeably darker. It is the job of the graphic artist to compensate for this effect by lightening the photograph.

          Political hit mailers, believe it or not, are usually not put together by Clio award winning designers, so they don't always pay as much attention to niceties like compensating for ink migration. This, friends, is why political hit mailers usually look like shit. If you're looking for reasons why the photo is darker in the mailer, consider starting there.

          •  Thanks for this information (0+ / 0-)

            Great explanation of the process; I understand.

          •  Maybe even people who don't know what the (0+ / 0-)

            Clio award is.  I wikipediad it so you don't have to:

            The Clio Awards are given to reward creative excellence in advertising and design. They are awarded in a number of fields, including: TV, Print, Outdoor, Radio, Integrated Campaign, Innovative Media, Design, Internet, Content & Contact, and Student work.

          •  This is why the pictures of Corker (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Coherent Viewpoint, dmh44, dolphin777

            were crystal clear and bright, while the pictures of Ford were dark and fuzzy? Everything about the Corker campaign after October 1 had a racial undertone, but this one mailing was done by mistake?  The guy spent millions of his own money on the campaign, and he couldn't afford to have someone double check the hit mailings, to avoid charges of racism? Do magical unicorns dance around in your neighborhood at night?

            And for the bimbo in the TV ad, were her clothes  done by a Clio award winning designer? Whoops, we didn't see any clothes on her.

            Republicans play rough. Politics is a blood sport for them, even at the college level. And I am sure that those phone banks in New Hampshire just got accidentally shut down when someone leaned on his redial key too often.

            Having been involved in politics, much it bare knuckle, and havig paid for many, many TV and print ads, I really disagree with your starting point analysis.

          •  My 2nd husband was a lithographer, even (0+ / 0-)

            union organizer in Philly.  I found very interesting the whole process!

            That was several years ago, and computerized techniques were just beginning to come into play.

            Aloha  ..  ..  ..

          •  No. Not acceptable. (0+ / 0-)

            Facile, but incorrect.

            I miss Lord Buckley

            by slowheels on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:49:21 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Thank you (0+ / 0-)

            Someone else who actually knows what they are talking about.

            •  Although, (0+ / 0-)

              (I read yours and his explanation above) the opposition hit mailers may be done on cheap paper to benefit from bad quality photographs that appear.  

              But his and your general points are still quite valid.

              Sometimes, a cackle is the best medicine!

              by ghost2 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 02:51:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  It could be a side benefit (0+ / 0-)

                although if I were running a campaign, I would want my mailing to look as good as I could afford.

                It would be much easier to get a photograph of the opposition with a scowl, or funny expression and not mess up the look of my entire mailer.

          •  And then you have to scan it. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Scanning a black and white photo into a grayscale image is not the same as scanning a grayscale photo.

            There is no way the scanned image that we see looks just like the original printed flyer.

        •  jungle drums (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Coherent Viewpoint, dmh44

          Remember the Corker radio spot which played jungle drums in the background when they mentioned ford's name?

        •  There's one huge difference in the present---- (0+ / 0-)

          it's a Democrat doing this to a fellow Democrat.  These are the kind of things we have been accustomed to with the Republican Party.  But this is a Democrat applying the same dirty tactics to a fellow Democrat.
           If that doesn't disqualify her to be the nominee of the Democratic Party, I don't know what does.

        •  you can see some similar attempts (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Coherent Viewpoint

          in the small part of the mailing that is visible above. The words "passes himself off" tend to have additional meaning when applied to a light-skinned Black person.

          BTW, I don't think that many people are going to be bothered if they learn that Obama, the product of a marriage between an Black man and a white woman, has dated white girls/women. The Bob Jones anti-miscegnation crowd are going to object to him on (multi)racial principle.

          "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." -- Oscar Wilde

          by expatyank on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 02:34:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Same question (9+ / 0-)

        Have the first two photos been printed in four-color-process or greyscale, or are they just screen images?

        My first reaction to this diary is that you're not accounting for dot gain in the printing process when you print on a cheap uncoated stock.

        What stock were all three images printed on, and what type of press? What source was used for the printed image?

        Saying that this was intentional is fine if everything has been investigated regarding the image.

        Has it?

        Oh well, I wasn't using that civil liberty anyway.

        by think2004 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:20:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The "School Colors" Mailer (0+ / 0-)

          had a darkened image of Ford, IIRC. And it had Corker next to the bright orange and white of UT, while Ford was next to the dark red and blue of UPenn.
          Given the evidence I have seen and the other tactics in the race, I think the presumption should be the other way: the Republicans should be asked to show the proofs that they provided to the printers, or approved before the print run.

          •  Which could also explain it. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Depending on how the printing was oriented.

            That blue would have a lot of black in it, meaning that area of the plate would have to be carrying a lot of ink.  That would be enough to blow out any halftone on cheap paper.

            Also, I don't think on a piece of this general poor quality that the client would have ordered a full press proof.  But in every printing plant I have worked at, if the client doesn't go on press for approval, they must accept responsibility for the results in writing.

      •  If the quality was poor, you would think (0+ / 0-)

        they would not have used them.  I think it was deliberate.  Racism is alive and well in America. The Clintons will have to accept their responsibility for bringing this factor to the forefront of their campaign and the fact that it will probably cost us the Presidency in November.  The republicans will see that it was acceptable for a democratic candidate to use these tactics and they will run with the same theme.  Should Hillary get the nomination, I am certain she will not be able to overcome these tactics to get African Americans to vote for her.  I know that as one, I will sit that one out.

        "Everybody in politics lies, but they do it with such ease, it's troubling." David Geffen on Bill and Hillary Clinton

        by rlmeade on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 02:07:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  This is your soapbox, Kos.... (9+ / 0-) you're certainly entitled to visit (or in this case, revisit) any issue you please.

      Personally, I'd rather focus on 2008 than 2006.

      Barack Obama. Because it's the 21st century, dammit.

      by Jsn on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:11:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  far worse when in comes from a Democrat (42+ / 0-)

    i expect the GOP to be racist (which is why i never vote for them).
    a Democrat who uses these tricks will NEVER get my vote. (and they shouldn't get yours.)

    i will work to defeat any candidate who steals the Democratic nomination.

    by catchaz on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:05:36 AM PST

  •  Proof Hillarys Following The Rovian Playbook. If (15+ / 0-)

    You cant beat them on the issues, go racist on them.

    Obama '08 YES WE CAN
    "The government should be afraid of its people, not the people afraid of its government"

    by DFutureIsNow on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:06:48 AM PST

    •  I imagine Rove is on Clinton's payroll. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rick Winrod, hardtoport

      Her recent behaviour betrays a certain Rovian scent.

    •  What utter nonsense (9+ / 0-)

      I will agree with kos on this: it's unfortunately that "darkening" in attack ads makes people more sinister in the eyes of the American public, and that's worth examining.

      That being said, this is done on attack ads for every candidate, be they black or white, male or female, Republican or Democrat. It's not Rovian. It's not race-baiting. It's pretty much SOP for attack ads to distort the pictures of the opponent, and the distortion usually consists of some combination of darkening and desaturation.

      Unless there's some provably racist intent here, kos and everyone else who call this race-baiting are, as far as I'm concerned, the ones involved in race-baiting here.

      "I do not equate my oppression with the oppression of blacks and Latinos. You can't. It is not the same struggle, but it is one struggle." Bob Kohler

      by dedmonds on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:25:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  One can only infer intent from (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Over the Edge

        available data; it can't be proven.  Intent is first person subjective.  That said, triers of fact routinely infer intent from data and the totality of the circumstances.

        the photo
        Jesse again
        Muslim hedging
        Rezko (Chi + AA + Corruption)
        "we just don't know enough about this man"

        And much more.  

        We used to call you types Dixiecrats.

        The Clinton campaign likes to manipulate poor whites who fear, distrust, or even hate blacks or Muslims--it's fun.

        by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:57:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh bullshit (0+ / 0-)

          Dixiecrat my ass. Incidentally, I want Obama to win. Does that change your mind? Probably not.

          But what utter, contemptible bullshit. You know absolutely nothing about me or my history with civil rights.

          Someone who arrives at a different conclusion from you is racist, right? There's not other possible explanation?

          Fuck off and die.

          That's exactly the kind of scorched earth, divisive politics people are accusing Clinton of using. Only hereabouts, I only see it coming from the Obama camp.

          "I do not equate my oppression with the oppression of blacks and Latinos. You can't. It is not the same struggle, but it is one struggle." Bob Kohler

          by dedmonds on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 01:37:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I think that Obama should make Clinton look black (0+ / 0-)

        in his next campaign ad.  That would be hysterical.  It might actually work on some people from Pennsylvania(I can say that, being born and raised there *shudder).  Overnight Clinton's race will suddenly be in question.

  •  AMEN! (8+ / 0-)

    The rationalization that Clinton supporters summon for their candidate's race-baiting is phenominal.

    Sow the wind, Senator Clinton, and reap the whirlwind.

    by Inventor on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:06:52 AM PST

  •  Where Are the Superdelegates? (6+ / 0-)

    They need to send HRC a message.

    Canada - where a pack of smokes is ten bucks and a heart transplant is free.

    by dpc on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:06:58 AM PST

  •  Hey, Republicans suck at visual design (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, Catesby, apfapfapf

    I'd actually be more willing to accept it as an accident on their part, because they hire terrible designers for the most part

    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes...

    by 2501 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:08:07 AM PST

  •  Good for you, Markos (13+ / 0-)

    Stick to your guns!

    "I may have fucked my life up flatter than hammered shit, but I stand here before you today beholden to no human cocksucker."

    by John R on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:08:12 AM PST

  •  African-Americans can be Racist Too (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Clarence Thomas' beef was that he was too black and too country for other African Americans.  And probably if you looked sui generis at which African Americans succeed within the Africna American community and in the larger world there may more light skinnedness among this group than among the population as a whole.  Of course, among the majority of people in all coomunities who are not successful or advantage the argument can go the other way - hence the tripe that Barack was not black enough.

    Think of the term swarthy and how it reads in all cultures and across cultures.

  •  Done with the Clintons (5+ / 0-)

    It's amazing how much blatant racism they have gotten away with. And yet, a Harvard academic who has very little to do with Obama's campaign makes a minot slip up and it big news. Go figure.

  •  Right on, kos... (12+ / 0-)

    ...Hillary is taking a page from the racist playbook of the Tenn GOP. She is having a "macaca moment."


    For business reasons, I must preserve the outward sign of sanity.

    --Mark Twain

    by redglare on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:09:11 AM PST

  •  Kos is on this Racist Kick - Give it Up (16+ / 0-)

    Kos is on this racist kick.
    He obviously knows very little about digital photography and the subtle changes that occur
    in compression and decompression of files.
    This has been handled elsewhere. I'm sorry
    but you obviously feel that a whiter Obama would be more palatable to the general public. I don't believe that the general public is as racist as you assume.
    But your harping on race is divisive and ill informed.
    Let's get back to ideas.

    •  ??? (3+ / 0-)

      What?! What does that have to do with Kos? Since he obviously doesn't under "compression and decompression of files," and I obviously don't, why don't YOU explain it for US?

      Also, please explain why 48% of white voters say they would never vote for Obama in Mississippi, whereas only 12% of white voters in Mississippi said they'd never vote for Clinton.

      I am an agent of change. So are you.

      by Angry Vet on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:12:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Didn't they say that race was ''an important (0+ / 0-)

        factor,'' not the ''deciding factor?''

        Of course, this is also terrible, although I would point out that the question itself was a bit too wide, since it is possible to consider race without minding it - if you, for example, live in Racist City, Middle-o'-Nowhere, you might support a black candidate in the general election, but will not support him or her in the primaries, believing that with all the racist, the candidate doesn't stand a chance. Not that this would be a common viewpoint.

        Omne malum nascens facile opprimitur, inveteratum fit plerumque robustius. - Cicero

        by Dauphin on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:17:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  an ad isn't going to change Mississippi (0+ / 0-)

        no matter how dark or light it is or what it says

    •  and frankly, a competent person (0+ / 0-)

      can compensate for the "subtle changes" ... and a candidate that "approves this message" can have an inapproprate one pulled too.

      She raised a stink about a stressed staffer calling her a "monster" in an unguarded moment (seriously - Hillary does play the victim card so well) why can't she take responsibility and pull a rather offensive ad?  Obama hasn't called for anyone to lose their position over this.

    •  Once again (4+ / 0-)

      Clinton supporters refuse to belive that she is running a racist campaign. I have yet to hear one of them denounce her for these tactics, let alone her bigoted remarks on 60 minutes.

    •  Moron (2+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      cybrestrike, MingPicket
      Hidden by:

      Yeah, what does Kos he know about racism or discrimination and being a minority?

      About as much as a guy who built one of the biggest, most successful web operations on the planet might know about file compression.

      Seriously. How big of an a--hole are you?

    •  He isn't saying he should be made to look whiter. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Over the Edge

      But maybe you didn't mean to phrase it in such a way...

      You have to live in a very narrow sector of the country to believe that racism doesn't exist.  Wherever you see racial inequality there is some form of racism behind it.  In our legal system (heavily weighted against minorities), In the fact that african americans are much more likely to be poor and get passed over for positions in which they are equally qualified.

      I wish I could relate to your idealism on the subject, but it simply doesn't comply with reality.

      •  in those areas of the country where racism exists (0+ / 0-)

        they already know Obama is black and they are not going to vote for him. They don't even watch the ads anymore.

        •  If you continue to label someone as the black (0+ / 0-)

          candidate, it creates the impression that they will only want to work on "black issues".  Call it race baiting or racial fear mongering.  However ridiculous it is, it does exist and it is effective.

          So yes, it is possible to use race to your advantage and not simply to attract those who call themselves racists.  It is a divisive technique used to make people afraid that they will be left out of the process and that their issues will not be addressed. It appeals to the darker nature's in inherently good people.  

  •  But... (9+ / 0-)

    It says something ill of us as a society when darkening a person's features makes them look more sinister. And doing that to an African American (or Latino, or Arab, or other darker-skin people) is particularly egregious.

    You can't say anything bad about Clinton! You big fat meanie!

    You have to tolerate anything she does, for the good of the Cli- er, the party. That's what I mean. The party.

  •  The sinister thing (6+ / 0-)

    could have come from old movies where the bad guy was always lurking in the shadows.  But I agree that until someone shows evidence that darkening the photo of caucasian opponents is done regularly then I lean toward racist.  

    -7.50, -7.74 --I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Thomas Jefferson

    by GMFORD on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:09:40 AM PST

    •  Darkening Caucasians (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skiddie, GMFORD

      I can't make the link work, but the "Ned Lamont Has a Messy Desk" ad from his campaign vs. Lieberman was a spoof of the idea that attack ads always run in black and white or sepia tones (YouTube).  It's done so often that it's become a meta-joke.  

      I suppose it's a matter of judgment whether rendering Lamont's pinkish skin as gray is the same kind of "darkening" Kos has been singling out here.

    •  "sinister" = "darker" IS racism (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ChiGirl88, GMFORD

      Darkening a caucasian person's skin to make them look "bad" is exactly the point -- it would be designed to make them look like "those bad people," meaning those with darker skin. This isn't even subtle.

      In the old fashioned westerns, "darker" meant either "Injun," Mexican, or black, all equated with "the bad guys." Or I suppose (not being a movie-goer), southern European (Italian?), or Semitic, or now, A-rab.

      I don't know what you call it, other than "racist" -- implying and playing off of a link between skin color and character. It only works because that linkage is so deeply embedded in our collective psyches.  

      •  Wrong (0+ / 0-)

        The darkening tactic has been used since the begining of art.  Even in the silent movie days, or the days of Shakespearean theatre, villains "lurked in the shadows".  

        It isn't about race so much as about old-school religious fearmongering.  Darkness was where criminals and deamons hid.  

        It has nothing to do about race.  That is revisionist history seen through the filter of modern racism.  Because racism is a widespread issue today, and the slavery roots of many African Americans, we mistakenly assume that everything has its roots in racism.  

        You are confusing the issue because you want to apply the problem of modern racism to a tactic that has been used long before racism was such a problem.

        •  You are right that it pre-dates racism. (0+ / 0-)

          But even racism was once acceptable.  And so far we have seen two candidates (Harold Ford and Barack Obama) whose skin has been darkened in ads by the opposition.  To make them appear sinister? Is it something used commonly these days?

          I can't read the minds of those who did it but it sure rubs me the wrong way.  

          -7.50, -7.74 --I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Thomas Jefferson

          by GMFORD on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:44:50 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't defend the "darkening". (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pharoah, GMFORD

            I'm merely saying that it is a mistake to just jump to the conclusion that casting someone in shadow, or darkening their photo, means "black people" and therefore "bad people."

            Is it a dirty, under-handed tactic?  For sure.  But if we are going to fly off the handle over a little photo, what is going to happen when the REAL attacks start and the media cranks up the noise machine.

            •  Exactly...... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              Where is the proof that light skinned Blacked candidates are exempt from discrimination. I doubt that Obama was going to fly under the radar of people knowing that he was a Black candidate even if these photos were not photo shopped as people have claimed.

              only the dissatisfied can make change

              by pharoah on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 03:28:54 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  lol (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hhex65, Turkana

    "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

    by Salo on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:09:47 AM PST

  •  Crikey, Kos might just be on to something here! (6+ / 0-)

    ...nahh, Hillary's campaign would never sink oh so low.  Never ever!

    secondpagemedia: Could you find it in your heart to blogroll me? I'd do the same for you.

    by aerojad on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:09:49 AM PST

  •  Just out of curiosity (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    viriginia liberal

    does anyone have a breakdown of the percentage of US Senators that have pledged their superdelegate votes towards one or the other candidate? I am curious to know what their immediate co-workers think of Clinoton and Obama.

  •  Truly racist (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    in a disturbing way--one that even supposedly non-racist societies like Brazil retain, with their supposed liking of "branqueamento" of the skin.

    Re: the Harold Ford advert: I do approve of the tactic of picking a photograph showing the opponent with a putzy expression.  What an awful photo of him.

    Who stole the kishka? Someone bring it back!

    by rhubarb on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:10:14 AM PST

  •  turnabout (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    turnover, Hannibal, buddabelly
    The make the Repubs pasty faced and kind of jaundiced yellow, and widen their pix to make them look even fatter.

    Illegitimus non carborundum

    by azureblue on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:10:17 AM PST

  •  I think we'll see more 'dark' before the dawn ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    freespeech, meatwad420, MAORCA

    scapegoating the ' different foreigner ' is an American tradition ... however ... evoultion is on our side.

  •  Dark skin threatening and unattractive in society (12+ / 0-)

    There are numerous examples throughout our society.

    This is something that's been going on in the fashion and advertising world since they started using black models.  Here's some pictures of the actress Jill Marie Jones for comparison.  

    Darker women are routinely lightened by three to five shades, specifically for women's fashion magazines whose primary market is African-American women.

    Jill Marie Jones in Alluring Looks

    Jill with her actual complexion compared to a lightened picture.  

    It ties in with the white racist and Eurocentric mindset that has been telling black people for generations, if you have dark skin, you are by definition less attractive.  The impact and effect of which has been internalized by black communities around the world, being most acute in societies like the U. S.  

    The effects of this conditioning have embedded themselves in our young people even the very young, who tragically grow up looking at themselves and seeing something inferior simply because they have darker skin, a rounder noses and fuller lips.  The evidence of which is all too easy to demonstrate as this video shows.

    Kiri Davis, a high school girl using children from Harlem

    •  Skin color / tone reproduction . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Check the skin color / tone reproductions of the same supermodel . If you check , you will see the variations , warm / cold , rich saturated / thin desaturated , etc etc etc .

      Photographic reproduction is an art and science that very few people will ever master .
      I have worked in and owned photo labs , chemical and electronic .
      When I see badly done images , I see the work of amateurs using amateur gear .

      "The fussy armchair jackboots who live here 24/7, tossing around their cool "donut" slang are the rather pathetic souls at the root of the problem."

      by indycam on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:42:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Right on schedule (11+ / 1-)

    Well done, Markos.  All the credibility you've worked hard to get to distinguish yourself from those perceived as loony is now gone.  Congratulations on Freeperville Left.

    •   Waaaah! Waaaah! (4+ / 2-)

      My candidate has turned into a complete slime and I can't defend it, so instead I'll blame Kos! Waaah! Waaaah!

      "I'm not a musician. I'm a rock and roll guitar player."--Little Steven Van Zandt

      by ChurchofBruce on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:15:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  There is nothing to defend (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skiddie, shpilk, grimc, Dauphin, jayden

        Kos is pushing this crap without any regard for how divisive it is not to mention without any actual proof.  

        I already voted for Obama and Hillary is not my candidate.  But thanks for enforcing my growing belief that the majoriy of his "supporters" are immature children who have quite a lot of growing up to do.

      •  You know, some of us who support Obama (7+ / 0-)

        also think it's a bad idea to weigh down the potential Democratic nominee with charges of racism, unless it's clearly warranted.  There are a number of people who make plausible arguments that this was just everyday politics, not racism.

        Look, if someone wants to destroy Clinton's reputation, they're entitled to do so.  But that person should remember that if her reputation is tarnished in March, it will still be tarnished in November, when she may have to run against McCain.

        •  It's not just Hillary (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skiddie, mdsiamese, vcmvo2, balancedscales, I

          Think of all the candidates for Congress that might support Hillary, or be neutral in the primary process.

          This is driving away a lot of people, and it's poisoning the well. I remember 2004, and we never had this going on.

          Why am I wasting my time here? Oh, right. I despise Republicans. Carry on, children.

          by shpilk on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:45:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Did *any* Dem (0+ / 0-)

            run as divisive a campaign in 2004? Not in my memory.

            "I'm not a musician. I'm a rock and roll guitar player."--Little Steven Van Zandt

            by ChurchofBruce on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:46:05 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Therefore you support the strategy (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              skiddie, mdsiamese, vcmvo2, Rasputin

              of making her as unpopular as you possibly can, given the tools at your disposal?

              Can you imagine potential problems with that strategy?

              •  I could... (0+ / 0-)

                ...if I were a slave to voting for anyone with a D after their name.

                But I'm not, and if she gets the nomination I'll be leaving the President spot blank. And don't tell me "butbutbut McCain!" because I don't see a whit's worth of difference between HRC and McCain on any important issues besides abortion. And as pro-choice as I am, that one issue isn't enough to make me justify voting for her and thus enabling her strategy.

                I would like her political career destroyed. We'll never have a real Democratic party with the DLC crowd and her Rovian campaign tactics leading it.

                "I'm not a musician. I'm a rock and roll guitar player."--Little Steven Van Zandt

                by ChurchofBruce on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:53:07 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well, at least you're consistent. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  skiddie, vcmvo2

                  Foolish, but consistent.

                  Others (i.e., Kos) who see little difference, policy-wise, between Clinton and Obama continue to attack her.

                  •  I think in his case (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    (and partially in mine) it's the scorched-earth campaign tactics and the top-down DLC McAuliffe types she has surrounding her. I wrote a diary today (I'm not going to pimp it again :-)) entitled "Aren't these the gates we're supposed to be crashing?" Policy is one thing. Tactics, strategy, who you have around you--that's another, and all those things about HRC is complete anathema to what Kos has been babbling about on this site for the whole time it's existed.

                    "I'm not a musician. I'm a rock and roll guitar player."--Little Steven Van Zandt

                    by ChurchofBruce on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:09:17 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I despise her tactics as well. (0+ / 0-)

                      But I would feel much better if she were President, sleazy tactics and all, than if McCain were President.  At least she'll be sleazy on behalf of the right people (or, at least, much more so than McCain would).

                      Not to mention we can count on McCain being at least as sleazy as she is if it comes down to those two.  If that does happen, if it is McCain v. Clinton, I hope you can hold your nose and vote for the sleazebag who has infinitely better policy.

                      •  Well (0+ / 0-)

                        It really won't make much difference either way. I live in the bluest of blue states, and one that went with HRC in the primary. If she should win the nomination, Senator Clinton will have no problem carrying Massachusetts, and easily, with or without my vote. If I lived in a swing state, I'd have to think harder about it.

                        I will say this: should she win the nomination, if she has the grace (and guts) to ask Obama to be her running mate, I would reconsider my position. There are a few others she could pick as a VP that would make me reconsider my position. If she does as I would expect, however, and pick another milquetoast DLC nonentity like Bayh, nope.

                        "I'm not a musician. I'm a rock and roll guitar player."--Little Steven Van Zandt

                        by ChurchofBruce on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 01:13:22 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  Foolish isn't the word (0+ / 0-)

                    I would've used.

        •  it's also a bad idea (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rasputin, LaEscapee

          to give ideas to the Republicans! The guy has a strong chance of being our nominee, but he will not win the GE if the race is weighed down with garbage issues like this. Kos is actually swiftboating Obama! He's giving prominence to what he thinks is an attack, and by doing so is elevating it to such a level that it detracts from everything good about Obama's campaign. I thought Obama was about hope and change, that the message he wanted people to know about him was that in him we will have hope for a better future. And all Kos is doing is miring this site in tabloid journalism.

        •  Everyday US politics IS racist! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Miles in WesternWA

          I'm baffled by the idea that it's OK to feed the "dark skin = evil" meme in US politics.  Especially by Democrats.  

          this was just everyday politics, not racism.

          Everyday politics is not OK, if it's racist.

          And do you really think Hillary Clinton herself isn't aware that this is an issue and a concern?  Do you think she's never read Langston Hughes, or Ralph Ellison, or Angela Mayou, on this issue?

          This is not a shallow question of one person name-calling or altering a photographic image. It is precisely the deep-seated rooted racism that all Democratic candidates should be working to overturn.    (I've seen a few comments on here about 'reverse-racism,' and of course that is part of the broader problem, too.  A problem that Hillary/Penn's 'micro-targeting' only worsens.)  

          As I'm sure most readers are aware, enough dark-skinned people use skin-bleachers that there is a market for "skin whitening" products.  E.g., this one, that boasts "For a lighter, brighter complexion. Complexion beautifier." (Sort of the mirror-opposite of artificial 'tanning' products.)  

          skin whitener

      •  How do you know who Rasputin's candidate is? (0+ / 0-)

        Mine is Obama and I agree with him.

  •  In the big picture (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vcmvo2, leftbird

    I doubt many voters have make their decision based on the pantone color scale...gee, I'd vote for Obama if he were just one tone lighter...

    In the beginning there was nothing...which exploded.

    by lucysdad on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:11:19 AM PST

  •  Not even close Are you trying to be a whackjob? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, Kevvboy

    Because that is the question I have

    Sorry I have to run to the Senate floor to abolish torture.

    by bten on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:11:55 AM PST

  •  I have a problem with this argument because... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, Kevvboy, Turkana, bten, kelley74ny

    it's subjective. Whether there's any truth in it or's not provable. Therefore, the person making this argument looks paranoid.

    ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

    by leftbird on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:12:03 AM PST

  •  This is just silly. (14+ / 0-)

    Having uploaded original content to YouTube in the past, I can testify that the uploader's control over the ultimate fidelity of the end product is very weak. Usually it's all you can do to get the sound synced with the video. Anything else you get beyond that is just gravy.

    Accusing someone of pandering to racism is a serious charge, and serious charges demand serious evidence. This doesn't come close.

  •  It's a great point (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Thaxter, MingPicket, MAORCA

    Some may want to explain it away as "business as usual". But in this case, that's not "business as usual" I'm willing to tolerate.

    It came up in the debates about the HRC ad, the best excuse offered in my diary on the subject and others, was either technical snafu (dubious) or standard advertising means "darkening" your opponent for sinister effect.

    That's strategy is all well and good among white guys, I suppose, but the question should be asked, "why dark = sinister." And when the target already IS dark(er), the process needs a full-stop moment of contemplation before proceeding.  

  •  Dark skin and wide noses are beautiful. (11+ / 0-)

    Dark skin and wide noses are beautiful.

    That said, the doctoring of photos of any public person for the purpose of appealing to the racism which lies in all of us, no matter who does it or when, is unforgivable.

    And that is why I do not plan on voting Hillary no matter what.  I will never reward such behavior, and I will never justify Mark Penn of Blackwater's paycheck with my vote.

  •  We've already lost at least a half a dozen (14+ / 0-)

    reasonable, thoughtful people in this community.

    Is this a putsch?

    Poisoning the well?

    For what purpose?

    Why am I wasting my time here? Oh, right. I despise _Republicans_. Carry on.

    by shpilk on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:13:34 AM PST

    •  No shit. n/t (7+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skiddie, shpilk, Kevvboy, vcmvo2, Turkana, mango, Dauphin

      Adding fuel to the outrage is all I have left. November 7, 2007. panicbean

      by panicbean on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:15:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Excellent questions... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SLKRR, jabbausaf, hardtoport, MingPicket

      Why don't you ask Hillary?

    •  Hear, hear. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skiddie, shpilk, wader, vcmvo2, Turkana

      The stupid is piled pretty deep around here these days. Being away from this site for the past week has left me feeling less cynical about politics than I've felt in months. (So why am I here now? The stupid is contagious, I guess...)

    •  Look at what is being left behind (7+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skiddie, phenry, shpilk, Kevvboy, wader, vcmvo2, Turkana

      Not much substance, but a lot of rage from people who want to change the world, but without leaving the comfort of their keyboards.

      •  1 Million different donaters (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        to the Obama campaign, one of them had to have left the keyboard at some point.

        "We need an energy bill that encourages consumption." --Trenton, N.J., Sept. 23, 2002-GWB

        by meatwad420 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:27:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  One good thing about leaving is that I will (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skiddie, Kevvboy, vcmvo2, LaEscapee

        be spending more time in the real world instead.

        What this is beginning to show me is that much of the time I spend here is truly WASTED time.

        I'm not GBCW, but UID 15850 has rarely not been a TU. I think it's time to cut back on this place and see how I like it.

        Spring is almost here. I've got a garden to plant, I've got Congresscritters to hound.

        Why am I wasting my time here? Oh, right. I despise Republicans. Carry on, children.

        by shpilk on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:41:30 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I hear you. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shpilk, LaEscapee, h bridges

          There is no tolerance here anymore.  This new type of change is what seems dark.

          I lost my TU status when I said that this site is sick, when Kos front paged the first Clinton is a racist diary.  I could care anymore.

          I direct your attention to the following article by Glen Ford at Black Agenda Report:

          This was particularly apt:

          Mass social movements aim to alter relations of power. They are impolite and sometimes operate outside of or in defiance of the law. They make impossible, reckless, irresponsible demands, like respect, human rights and the vote to people who didn't have them - like stopping an unjust war, halting foreclosures and gentrification, like guaranteeing the absolute right to organize a union, to strike and to win a living wage. But the Obama "movement" demands nothing from the candidate except to get elected. There are no yardsticks, no demands placed upon Obama by his constituents, no goals that have come from independently organized meetings or other processes in Black America.

          •  It's respect for truth that is suffering the most (0+ / 0-)

            here .. the ridiculous assertions backed up by distorted evidence and lies seem par for the course: to be fair, I've seen it from both sides.

            There are more Obama supporters here than Clinton, so it looks worse for Obama, but no mistake it's an epidemic that both sides have fallen sick from. Deathly sick.

        •  don't forget (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shpilk, LaEscapee

          docudharma, the left coaster, and eenr blog!

      •  So those who flamed out (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        WisePiper, Miles in WesternWA

        brought substance, while those who remain somehow contribute nothing to changing the world.  Do you even see the hypocrisy inherent in bemoaning the state of the site while simultaneously launching nasty insults?

        As they campaign, so shall they govern.

        by GN1927 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:42:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you think what goes on here... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          is contributing to bring real change and make this society better, then we just disagree.

          I see a bunch of activist wannabees using tough rhetoric from behind the computer, but no societal action when it comes down to it, other than support of a candidate at all costs.

          •  How arrogant can you get? (0+ / 0-)

            Do you have some secret knowledge of the identities of the tens of thousands of people who post comments and diaries here?

            You are nothing but a hypocrite.

            As they campaign, so shall they govern.

            by GN1927 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:58:57 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, and you are the one engaged... (0+ / 0-)

              in typical namecalling.  How appropriate.

              If you cannot see the bad conduct that occurs here, I have no desire to change your mind.

              Of course there are many good people here, but like Kos, you seem to defend the worst.  Your statement is no less general than mine.

              Perhaps you should speak out more about the intolerance and hate expressed to others who disagree.  Oh yeah, I am just a hypocrite.

              While there many similarities between a well-executed twenty-first century US presidential campaign, and a successful multimedia and viral marketing campaign, there are many important differences between both of these and a transformative movement for social change.

              All three, to be successful, must tap into widespread, deeply held beliefs in their target audiences, and take full advantage of horizontal, person to person communications inside those audiences to push their message, a process marketers call "viral marketing." But the content of marketing and political campaign messaging is dictated from the top. Though the masses are passive consumers and sometimes the transmitters of marketing and partisan political messaging, they are seldom or never its originators.

              By contrast the goals, the messages, the plans, and the tactics of the mid twentieth century movements for civil and human rights did not come from the top down, they came from the bottom up. They came from union halls, student dormitories and church basements. They came from meetings in the back rooms of restaurants and at kitchen tables across the South and around the country.


              Perhaps you can cite me to even one demand that is being made on Obama by his adherents.

              Seems to me, with Power's statements to the BBC about the Iraqi withdrawal, even that issue goes by the wayside in order to get him elected.

              Have a nice day.

              •  This is something approaching a (0+ / 0-)

                grassroots level campaign, financed by over a million donors rather than lobbyists.  It's not the civil rights movement, or an antiwar rally, but a political campaign that has the potential to get large swaths of the American population to consider voting their own best interests for a change.

                Yes, I think you are beyond hypocritical.  Arrogant and mean-spirited.

                As they campaign, so shall they govern.

                by GN1927 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:20:51 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  There is no purpose other than... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  electing Obama.  That is not a movement.

                  From the same article:

                  Activists are saying that Obama can and will be held accountable eventually - after he is elected. But how realistic is that?

                  Unless activists both inside and outside the Obama campaign are organizing their own meetings, raising their own demands, and building their own networks apart from those of the campaign's they won't even have the names, or the phone numbers or the email addresses of the thousands of young and old people eager for change who have come forward to work on the campaign. The day after the election the "Obama movement" will be just like those "movements" that elected Black mayors in cities across the land. Over. And another precious organizing opportunity will have been missed.

                  To consider their own best interests?  And just what are those?  I don't hear much talk about issues in this movement, but I do hear about how neat it is to raise $55 million dollars in a month.  How great.

                  Oh, by the way, you are the one who seems to be calling me names, not the other way around.  Sorry, but I'll choose not to reciprocate or respond further.

            •  Mirror, (0+ / 0-)

              you need a mirror.

              I'm angry about the fate of the real loser here, and that's the truth.

              I'm arrogant about it, that the truth is taking a back seat to attacks from both sides in this primary race, that people who I thought I could trust use the most base classless smears to make their cases.

              I can see for myself the nature of what is going on the primary campaign, I don't Markos Moulitsas, or any other Front Pager pulling fake and imitation dirty rabbits out of hats to show me.

              I'm sick of it, all of it.

    •  Warning: Diary pimping inside :-) (it's relevant) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Independant Man

      I said the other day, yes, I think he's poisoning the well.

      For what purpose? Well, maybe he agrees with this.

      I'm no mindreader, of course, but I wouldn't be shocked at any of it.

      "I'm not a musician. I'm a rock and roll guitar player."--Little Steven Van Zandt

      by ChurchofBruce on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:32:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm appalled by this (10+ / 0-)

    The talking heads were in a tizzy this morning over Samantha Power calling Clinton a "monster", but I've yet to hear a word from any of them about the Clinton campaign doing something that's blatantly racist like this.

    If Hillary somehow pulls a win out via these tactics, she'd better be damned sure of her political calculus.  At this point, I'll leave the presidential column blank if she's the Democratic nominee - I'm not alone and I doubt there are enough swing voters for her to close that deficit.

    The Devil crept into Heaven, God slept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on September 11 - IT

    by tomaxxamot on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:13:37 AM PST

  •  Candidates make other candidates look lousy (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wader, Timothy McIntyre, hardtoport

    in ads.  Clinton's surrogates took a pretty nice picture of Obama and made it seem starker.  I'd advise against darkening in the future, but they could do much, much worse. . . and probably will.  Although it seems tough to get a bad picture of Obama.  This is the only one I could find.  And he still looks pretty good in it.

    •  Visually... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wader, vcmvo2

      Obama looks pretty damn good in the Clinton ad. the Original footage that it was taken from (MSNBC stock) made him look like he had a bad complexion and saggy skin.

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:16:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sinister? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pharoah, vcmvo2

    sorry, darker people do not look 'sinister' to me.  They look just fine.

  •  why not just call the Clinton campaign and ask (0+ / 0-)

    them is they darkened and widened the debate photo of Obama, ask them who prepared the ad they used, if they knew of any alteration and then see what they say?

    No use beating around the bush, ask them, on the record.

    "The trust of a city street is formed over time from many, many little public contacts." - Jane Jacobs, 1961

    by eyesonthestreet on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:14:43 AM PST

  •  Please (13+ / 0-)

    Kos you are really looking ridiculous.

    Anyone who has worked with an Avid or digital imagery find your analysis amateurish and, most importantly, your tirade on the Obama has been DEBUNKED. I sthis your new path to try to save face?

    Apologize much for screwing up?

    Guess not.

  •  "Straight up conversion" to black and white? (11+ / 0-)

    What constitutes a straight-up conversion? Let's assume we're using Photoshop. Are you desaturating the image? Converting it from RGB to grayscale without doing anything else to it? Are you converting to lab color and isolating the lightness channel?

    There are a lot of ways to go from color to grayscale. They all produce different results. The "correct" result is highly subjective; it depends on the lighting when the photograph was taken and the exposure of the image. Maybe the lighting was dim. Maybe the image is slightly under or overexposed. Maybe a film image was scanned improperly, and compensation has to be made after an image is converted to grayscale.

    In my job, I often have to work with images of black people. I'm super-sensitive about charges of making a person look lighter or darker, so I'm very careful, especially when correcting images that are under or overexposed or when taking images to grayscale. But, unless I have the person right in front of me in optimal lighting conditions when I am working with the photo, I have no idea whether my final result is entirely accurate.

  •  You know (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SLKRR, rhubarb, hardtoport, meatwad420

    Kos never mentioned Clinton in this diary.


  •  It is clear and evident that Hillary Clinton will (7+ / 0-)

    do anything to either become the nominee or damage Barack Obama at any cost.

    She and her husband have lost the AA vote, support for years to come.

    Read what Gary Hart had to say about her:

    One of those rules is this: Do not provide ammunition to the opposition party that can be used to destroy your party's nominee. This is a hyper-truth where the presidential contest is concerned.

    By saying that only she and John McCain are qualified to lead the country, particularly in times of crisis, Hillary Clinton has broken that rule, severely damaged the Democratic candidate who may well be the party's nominee, and, perhaps most ominously, revealed the unlimited lengths to which she will go to achieve power. She has essentially said that the Democratic party deserves to lose unless it nominates her.

    This is what you get when you really have heartless, GOP types, around you.  She is totally in la-la land.

    •  funny Gary Hart would say that (0+ / 0-)

      In 1984 Walter Mondale ran his own "red phone" attack ad on Hart, to present his superior experience over Hart's message of change and newness.

      Seems like Mondale won, and I don't recall anyone saying he was a particularly nasty candidate doing so.  If anything, he was too honest saying he would raise taxes, even while (accurately) predicting Reagan would have to do the same.

      •  And one more time the worst candidate won (0+ / 0-)

        The Democratic nomination by pllaying dirty and got beat in the General Election. When are we going to learn?

        "Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories." - Thomas Jefferson

        by fetalposition on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 03:13:43 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Calling Hillary a "monster" is okay, though? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dfarrah, Kevvboy, bten, Dauphin

    The selective outrage on this site has always struck me as odd, but ah well.  Check this out, pretty funny:

    I was working in the lab late one night
    When my eyes beheld an eerie sight
    For my monster from her slab began to rise
    And suddenly to my surprise

    She did the mash
    She did the monster mash
    The monster mash
    It was a graveyard smash
    She did the mash
    It caught on in a flash
    She did the mash
    She did the monster mash

    From my laboratory in the castle east
    To the master bedroom where the vampires feast
    The Clintons all came from their humble abodes
    To get a jolt from my electrodes

    They did the mash
    They did the monster mash
    The monster mash
    It was a graveyard smash
    They did the mash
    It caught on in a flash
    They did the mash
    They did the monster mash

    The Clintons were having fun
    The party had just begun
    The guests included Wolf Man
    Dracula and his son

    The scene was rockin’, all were digging the sounds
    Igor on chains, backed by his baying hounds
    The coffin-bangers were about to arrive
    With their vocal group, "The Crypt-Kicker Five"

    They played the mash
    They played the monster mash
    The monster mash
    It was a graveyard smash
    They played the mash
    It caught on in a flash
    They played the mash
    They played the monster mash

    Out from his coffin, Obama’s voice did ring
    Seems he was troubled by just one thing
    He opened the lid and shook his fist
    And said, "Whatever happened to my Transylvania twist?"

    It’s now the mash
    It’s now the monster mash
    The monster mash
    And it’s a graveyard smash
    It’s now the mash
    It’s caught on in a flash
    It’s now the mash
    It’s now the monster mash

    Now everything’s cool, Bill’s a part of the band
    And my monster mash is the hit of the land
    For you, the living, this mash was meant too
    When you get to my door, tell them Hillary sent you

    Then you can mash
    Then you can monster mash
    The monster mash
    And do my graveyard smash
    Then you can mash
    You’ll catch on in a flash
    Then you can mash
    Then you can monster mash

    Putting People First // Hillary 2008

    by Timothy McIntyre on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:15:55 AM PST

  •  it is institutional racism by political system (8+ / 0-)

    i wrote diary other day because this is what factcheck concluded on the hillary ad that darkened obama:

    [W]e see no reason to conclude that this is anything more than a standard attempt to make an attack ad appear sinister, rather than a special effort to exploit racial bias as some Obama supporters are saying.

    Regardless of how you feel about the hillary ad, as a general proposition it just boggles my mind that factcheck would say there was no evidence of racism when the "standard attempt to make an attack ad appear sinister" is itself racist.

  •  Actually, tone often matters just like color (0+ / 0-)

    "It says something ill of us as a society"

    This 'darkening' is dirty, and I don't want to promote such behavior.  My comments below aren't meant to do so, either...

    But, wanted to make the point that it not only says something bad about us, but practically everyone.

    Many countries and cultures almost distinguish class levels by skin tone (dark black vs. light black.)  In fact, within our own african american commuity the tone of blackness has always mattered.

    My point is, we shouldn't act like we're to be ashamed -- as though we're the last remaining society with this issue.  We're further ahead of most, and some have a long, long way to go.

    •  Ford trade heavily on being a blue eyed jack the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      lad. he's a good looking man.

      This argument is like having a gripe with Andy Warhol's silk screening processes.

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:18:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is Bob Tuke by any chance a Sybllery supporter? (0+ / 0-)
  •  What's really disturbing is how many people... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...fall for these tactics. "Oooooh, scary dark person! I'd better not vote Democrat!"

  •  False claims of racism against others... (10+ / 0-)

    and outright sexism, labeling others who disagree, and overall disparagement in comments and replies, says a lot about this community as well.

    Sadly, these things are tolerated, even celebrated, depending on partisanship.

    Kos, perhaps you should be looking into the mirror of what occurs on your own site.  Maybe then, I might be more convinced by your "concern."

    •  Sadly (0+ / 0-)

      Sadly, race baiting is tolerated by people on this site. Race baiting politics meant to exploit racial tensions are even celebated on this site, depending on partisanship.

      Look in your own mirror.

      •  I did not bait anyone... (0+ / 0-)

        nor call anyone a bitch, or anything like that.

        So what are you talking about?

        This site has as much hate being generated as Free Republic.

        And Kos does nothing, but stoke the flames, and bring a new type of discourse with his own drivel that poses as analysis.

        •  The Exposure of Racist Political Tacticsc (0+ / 0-)

          We've lived through racial division for how many decades now? Instead of accusing Kos, look at yourself. Why are you ignoring this issue and turning it back on Kos?

          This site does not have as much hate being generated by Free Republic. That's just a irrational lie. What is hateful is how Clinton supporters deride the messenger for pointing out something that is truly repulsive.

          If you want to call the public condemnation of race baiting politics "drivel," have at it. If you want to call public condemnation of racism "stoking the flames," go ahead and revel in your denial. But don't expect us to accept your accusations against Kos as having any merit, because frankly, they don't.

          •  I don't support Clinton... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            and coming from a diverse family, I know racism when I see it.

            I also know what hate is, and it is expressed daily within the four walls of this site.

            Deny it if you want, but your brethren tarnish you all, especially when you don't speak out.

            Kos trivializes racism with this drivel.  That is how I see it, and so do many blacks have actually experienced racism in the real world, not this intellectual junk about colors in a poster that is being used to inflame an audience for who knows what?

            Kos leads and too many sheep follow.

            By the way, I could care if you think what I say has no merit.

        •  Why is this discussion even taking place? (0+ / 0-)

          Did we imagine it all? Are we seeing something that is really quite innocent and not at all malign? Were the robo-calls calling Obama 'Osama-Hussein' real or did people just imagine them or make it all up? Did the campaign worker who called and said "Osama Bin Laden, sorry I meant Obama, slip of the tongue"? suffer from a slight mental lapse? Did Bill in repeating over and again how great it was for an "African American to be running for  president" in South Carolina just want to praise the historical importance of a man of color running for President? Were the e-mails sent by CLinton campaign workers about Obama being Muslim in secret who took his oath of office on the Koran all a big mistake and action by a couple of rogue campaign workers? Was Bill Shaheen simply joshing when he suggested Obama might have been a Drug Dealer? Was the "turban" picture sent to Drudge and then splashed all over the media just to show how culturally sensitive Obama is?

          And finally: was the video footage of Obama deliberately darkened just to help create the feeling of forboding desired by the director?

          "Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories." - Thomas Jefferson

          by fetalposition on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 03:35:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Harold Ford is a DLC tool, but... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    i hope he wins

  •  I think the question that needs to be asked is: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pharoah, mdsiamese

    "Why is a darker candidate so threatening?" There seems to be alot of denial in regards to the old "divide the races" tactic.

    Politics is the deliberation of one's moral enterprise.

    by Omen on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:17:25 AM PST

  •  Markos, (9+ / 0-)

    are you just trying to stimulate traffic?  Or is there some other reason you keep doing this?

    If you want all remaining Clinton supporters to leave, why not just say so?

    •  Good question. I don't get the MOTIVE here (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      It is weird and sinister and maybe an elimination tactic for Hillary people. Or maybe he knows something. What does Kos know and when will he reveal his knowledge.

      Sorry I have to run to the Senate floor to abolish torture.

      by bten on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:26:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's a putsch. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      You get the intellectuals exiled, and leave the hard core groupies behind to tow the party line.

      Just like Stalinism.

      Why am I wasting my time here? Oh, right. I despise Republicans. Carry on, children.

      by shpilk on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:33:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it's something baser. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kelley74ny, rcnewton

        He has been complaining how his advertising has fallen off and how he's had to dip into his savings to keep the site going.

        Maybe this is a panicked bid for more hits, or for some sort of institutional support from one of the parties.  Not saying which one.  But he is certainly doing the work of the Republicans with this crap.

    •  Because it's vile (0+ / 0-)

      Race baiting is vile. Amoral political campaigns who exploit racial tensions for their own gain are vile.

      The MSM has ignored this story because it shows Clinton in such a repugnant light. It exposes her indecency and moral ruthlessness.

      Maybe Kos isn't afraid to keep reminding us of just how repulsive her Darkie Ad is.

      •  It is vile. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        vcmvo2, rcnewton

        The only people "race baiting" here today are Markos and the people supporting this stupid thread.

        •  Bullshit (0+ / 0-)

          This needs to be called out, and called out frequently. It is bar none the most egregious offense her campaign has committed, and she's committed plenty of moral offenses.

          I will not support race baiting political tactics in my party's nominee. If you want to, go ahead Kevvboy, it's your choice, your moral decision to make. But don't accuse Markos of race baiting for exposing race baiting.

  •  Note to Markos, time to take a stand. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bten, hardtoport, funmerlin

    As you must've realized, the campaign is about to get really really ugly, something you've apparently been looking forward to, judging by your comments.

    So let's see if you can play hardball, Clinton has all but disowned the Democratic Party and aligned herself with John McCain and the Republicans, if she doesn't get the nomination perhaps she'll switch parties and run with John, that wouldn't surprise me at this point.

    So it's time for you to get off the fence, time for you to put the party first.  You know that Hillary Clinton does not represent the Democratic Party or the people of this country, and she certainly doesn't represent progressive values, so don't you think it's time you used the power of your blog to go after that soulless unethical lackey of the corporate power structure in this country?

    You know the answer.

  •  "Darkening a person's features" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It says something ill of us as a society when darkening a person's features makes them look more sinister. And doing that to an African American (or Latino, or Arab, or other darker-skin people) is particularly egregious.

    If you take the light off of someone or something, it makes that someone or something appear more sinister--not because of anything racial, but because people and things cloaked in darkness--hidden--are more mysterious and more menacing.

    Do I think that people with darker skin are more menacing? Of course not. That's a ridiculous thought, obviously. But if somebody is hanging around back in the shadows at night, it's impossible to evaluate that person. That shadowy figure is perceived as a threat. It has nothing to do with race.

  •  Did Clinton darken Obama video purposely or... (6+ / 0-)

    was it done in the conversion process? That needs to be clarified before going any further with this meme.

  •  I'll buy your argument if... (16+ / 0-)

    you can tell me what paper stock that was printed on, who printed it, what sort of image was supplied to the printer. My guess is that it was printed on a very porous stock, then add in press gain, and you've got a considerably darker image than the source. Also, was the image converted to black and white, or was it desaturated? Different results for each. Were the contrast curves adjusted or not? Was it converted to a CMYK black and white image?
    I'm not saying this wasn't done intentionally, and I'm not saying it was. I don't know. But there are just as many reasonable explanations for each argument, so quit jumping to conclusions.

  •  If you don't think racism is alive and well (0+ / 0-)

    in this country, then you haven't been paying attention.Just ask the people In Jena, Alabama!

    "DC...the chocolate city with the marshmallow center and graham cracker crust of corruption" - Stephen Colbert

    by foxsmartchicago on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:18:18 AM PST

  •  Awww, Kos... I was just thinking how glad I was (9+ / 0-)

    that you made a decision to focus on party building/constructive posts (women, McCain's VP) rather than focusing on the circular firing squad attacks.  I guess not.  

  •  Back in the day they would have called them (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jabbausaf, MAORCA

    blackened pickaninnies.  In the 21st century, darkening light brown-skinned blacks' photos for any reason is nothing short of immoral, bigoted and shameful.

    Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. ~~ I Corinthians 15:33

    by 99 Percent Pure on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:19:13 AM PST

  •  focusing so much on racism can be divisive,.. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mdsiamese, vcmvo2, bten

    Is there racism? Yes. Will it help Obama in November if there's so much focus placed on race? No.

    ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

    by leftbird on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:19:13 AM PST

    •  WRONG -- RACISM is divisive (2+ / 0-)

      and it's real. Don't try to act like it's not. It has a real impact on real peoples' lives, (me being one of them), so I would appreciate it if you leave the conversation rather than trying to shut it down, if you do not approve of it.

      •  ever hear of George Lakoff? (0+ / 0-)

        Try this - don't think of an elephant. I bet you thought of an elephant didn't you!

        Constantly acting like Obama is being treated in a racist manner will make people actually think of racism. Many people think they are not racist, but harping on it like this will trigger any latent or unconscious tendancies, and it will COST Obama votes. It will also cost him votes by spending more time on this garbage rather than touting the good about him on the issues!

        He hasn't won yet, but I know in November I'm going to have to vote for this guy if he's on the ticket, and I would really rather not trigger racism in the voting population.

      •  1. Agree, racism is real... (0+ / 0-)

        2.I'm not trying to act like it's not real as you suggest.

        1. I agree, it does have an impact on real people's lives.
        1. I will NOT "leave the conversation" just because you don't like what I say.
        1. Focusing so much on racism AND linking it to Obama will NOT help him win an election...whether you like it or not.

        ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

        by leftbird on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:16:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  nothing more than your opinion (0+ / 0-)

          And once again, exactly where has not talking about racism gotten this society?

          •  I don't hear Obama claiming... (0+ / 0-)

            that there's racism being used against him. You know why? Because he knows that he won't win an election by doing so.

            BTW; This forum is basically opinion. Kudos to your opinion....and mine:-)

            ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

            by leftbird on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:28:11 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Of course he can't talk about it (0+ / 0-)

              But I can, and I will, and whole lot of other people will because we will never get rid of racism by hiding from it.

              And please stop trying to convince me not to talk about racism. You will never succeed with that.You will never convince me there's any benefit to not talking about race. That's been tried, and tried, and tried.

              •  Is that a chip there on your shoulder??? (0+ / 0-)

                Who told you to stop talking about racism???

                IMO, linking racism to Obama will not help him; that's all.

                Go ahead, talk away about racism and how it's unfair to Obama; I'm a Hillary supporter and I think it will help her:D

                ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

                by leftbird on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:47:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

  •  Pounding Sand (14+ / 0-)

    There are a lot of things to criticize Hillary Clinton about, but this isn't one of them. already went through the color & formatting problems that occur with online video. Of course, that's been hashed through in multiple diaries, and largely ignored in the stories on the front page.

    In an update on's website, some of the original diarists don't dispute the analysis & seem uncomfortable with the assetion of racism charges.....

    We received several e-mails about our article that attempted to further the discussion. The two Kos bloggers who originally posted the story contacted us separately with thoughtful e-mails arguing generally that the matter deserves serious discussion but not challenging the substance of our article. Both said they found no fault with our conclusions about the charges of racism. Troutnut said he didn't "contest [our] assertion that the netroots' accusation of race-baiting is ‘unsubstantiated,’ " and Jeff Cronin admitted the "Race-Baiting" headline on Kos "was phrased in starker terms than I would have liked."

    Yesterday, Kos disputed's analysis by linking to this on Democratic Underground. Well, there's an update for that too.

    Another blogger who posts under the handle Berni_McCoy on falsely accused us of having "POSTED A DOCTORED VIDEO" of Clinton’s ad. Since his mistaken claims are attracting some notice in the blogosphere, we will point out his error here.

    He compared the Windows Media video of the ad posted on our site with a QuickTime version of the ad that he obtained from Clinton’s campaign Web site. He then displayed frame shots from these two versions and stated "the difference is clear." He concluded that we are "completely wrong" or "directly falsifying the 'facts.' "

    McCoy, however, falsely said that our Windows Media video is derived from the Clinton QuickTime version, which it is not. Our video is a copy of the high-quality video recorded by CMAG as it appeared on the air in Texas. So what McCoy imagines is evidence that we "doctored" video obtained from the Clinton Web site is actually evidence that supports what we said in the first place: Versions of the Clinton ad from different sources show different shadings, and the YouTube version on which the "racism" claim rests is the darkest of the lot.

  •  So you know (0+ / 0-)

    my old lady thinks this Hillary thing with darkening Obama's mug is fiction. But if it's true, she says, she does not care because all is fair in politics.

    And she is not alone. Many women have blind faith for this female running for president and it's got me hopping mad.

    It's not terror if you're not afraid. Quit Data Mining me you pathetic scumbag.

    by Data Mining Telecom Fascist on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:19:53 AM PST

  •  If someone lightened a picture of Obama... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, vcmvo2, Skjellifetti, kelley74ny

    would they be accused of making him more friendly looking?  Less threatening?  More white?

    Seriously, isn't this a dead horse yet?

    I've been reading this site for four years...can somebody tell Markos to step off the ledge?    ;-)

  •  Is this issue something that is bringing (7+ / 0-)

    more people to Dkos? I noticed yesterday that Kos posted a link to the site meter and was bragging about how hits are up. If so, this is pathetic. I cannot believe that someone in our own party is doing this and no one is speaking out against it. Someone needs to prove that Hillary and someone in her camp is behind this. How can we get to the bottom of this? If kos is wrong for flogging it this site will never ever have any credibility again. Let's not forget what happened to Dan Rather and the Bush documents.

    Embarrassing, embarrassing. No wonder were going down the tubes.

    It's Obamazing!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by Chamonix on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:20:20 AM PST

  •  Thanks for the history lesson (0+ / 0-)

    I kinda remembered this strategy being used and discussed over and over for years before, but I couldn't think of any concrete examples besides OJ.

    I think it's odd to hear all the people convinced that this SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE. I think that they must either be young, or they have never lived in a district where a black person was running against a white person.

    This is not new.

  •  i recall kos called fords chances dead>>> (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    right before election...then the media picked up on it, and ampliofied it.... .maybe had kos not said that, ford...bad is he is, could have eked out a win..

    so its great to defend ford on the racism angle picture darkening...but why not a little love before

  •  Not to mention they did it incompetently (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davidincleveland, MAORCA

    Instead of darkening the entire image, they could have just upped the contrast. It would actually have been more effective.

    If they are going to resort to this kind of dirty tricks, they should at least hire a decent graphic artist.

  •  are you a repressed graphic designer? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, Kevvboy, bten, Inky99

    I know Art Directors make more than you do off this website...maybe you could do a graphics course and get out of the opinion business altogether?

    "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

    by Salo on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:21:27 AM PST

  •  Enough Kos! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, Kevvboy, AnnieM, bten

    Stop running these little diversions! The colorization factor isn't doing a damn thing. So are you going to tell me next that Mr. Ford was a white guy?

    The ads/flyers/mailers etcetra are all fair game for getting the person's point across. So in essence nothing "illegal" can be interjected into this argument. So let's chill!

    The issues are what matters.


    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." - Hitchhiker's Guide

    by Wynter on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:21:49 AM PST

  •  Let it go already... (17+ / 0-)

    I commented on this a few days ago. I've been a graphic designer for 25 years. While the image is definitely darker and has been stretched, there is no way to prove that it was intentional. I wouldn't put it past them at all, but you're hurting your credibility kos.

  •  Howard Wolfson Should Resign For Comparing Obama (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Deadicated Marxist, MAORCA

    To Ken Starr.

    Hillary Doesnt Have The Decency Ask Him To Do So.


    Obama '08 YES WE CAN
    "The government should be afraid of its people, not the people afraid of its government"

    by DFutureIsNow on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:22:31 AM PST

  •  Cut this shit out (12+ / 0-)

    Kos, we've seen even here, in the Daily Obama, several diaries and posts from people versed in the technical issues, disputing whether any "darkening" was actually done on Obama's skin color in that ad.  You ignore ANYTHING posted to the contrary of what you want to believe - and clearly what you want to believe is that Clinton is a racist.

    Now, I'm much more incensed at her comments about McCain, and I'm now worried that NEITHER she nor Obama can beat McCain in the fall, even though I would vote for either of them.  But you have just sunk your credibility with me to about zero, by failing to take account of any critiques of this charge.  This site is simply going down the toilet.  It's really sad.

  •  A song from MIA's KC & The Sunshine Band for kos (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kevvboy, mdsiamese

    Everybody wants you
    Everybody wants your love
    I'd just like to make you mine all mine
    Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na,
    Baby give it up
    Give it up, Baby give it up

    Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na,
    Baby give it up
    Give it up, Baby give it up

    Everybody sees you
    Everybody looks and stares
    I'd just like to make you mine all mine
    Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na,

    Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na,
    Baby give it up
    Give it up, Baby give it up

    Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na,
    Baby give it up
    Give it up, Baby give it up

    Everybody wants you
    Everybody wants your love
    I'd just like to make you mine all mine
    Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na,
    Baby give it up
    Give it up, Baby give it up
    Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na,
    Baby give it up
    Give it up, Baby give it up Can you give it

    Can you give it Give it up
    Come on baby I need your love
    Do you know I want it baby
    Come on baby I want your love
    Give it up, some of your love
    Come on and play the game of love..(fade away)
    Give it up, some of your love

    Oprah? Nah, I'm voting however Jerry Springer tells me to.

    by Barry in MIA on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:22:42 AM PST

  •   look closely (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FlipYrWhig, wader, bten, Dauphin

    Ford was not darkened - the whole picture was darkened - reduce brightness across the board.  See how the white background in photo 2 has become gray in photo 3?

    That they darkened the photo is very different from saying they made him look 'blacker'

  •  Of course, all of this begs the question... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, vcmvo2, bten

    why would it matter if someone's skin is darker or lighter? That should be the point we move forward with on this...

    Otherwise, are we inadvertently playing into the theme that skin color does/should matter?

  •  K. Power who? Monster? What? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, Kevvboy, BoringDem

    Radio silence?  Yup.

    Oprah? Nah, I'm voting however Jerry Springer tells me to.

    by Barry in MIA on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:24:36 AM PST

  •  Not much to say... (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, kenlac, Kevvboy, AnnieM, vcmvo2, Turkana

    So I won't say anything except that this whole thing makes me really sad. This used to be such a great site.

  •  Oh, Kos, Kos, Kos ...... (17+ / 0-)

    Seriously, you need to get off of this, you're making a tin-foil idiot of yourself.  

    You're comparing a desaturated digital image with something that was later printed to a paper product in black and white, then obviously scanned on a flat-bed scanner, then put back on the internet?

    Oh.  My.  God.  Please stop, you're making an absolute fool of yourself, and of this site.  

    PLEASE consult with people who are actually in this business before you get all tin-foily, okay?  


    "The great nations have always acted like gangsters, and the small nations like prostitutes." - Stanley Kubrick

    by Inky99 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:24:57 AM PST

    •  Look at the donation box in the mailer (0+ / 0-)

      Or the American flag stars on the elephant... much whiter than the background behind Ford.

      You can't blame this on shitty printing or stock... if it was that the dark grey box next to Ford's picture wouldn't be lighter than his image.

  •  Now I know why all these divisive issues keep... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kevvboy, Southern Bell, AnnieM, Turkana

    reaching the recommended list.

    ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

    by leftbird on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:25:53 AM PST

    •  a fish rots (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AnnieM, bten, leftbird

      from the head down.

      •  Good one:D (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I'll have to use it sometime.

        ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

        by leftbird on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:52:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Does it? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Good aphorism but is it true?  Inquiring minds want to know!

      •  certainly does (0+ / 0-)

        Am glad you have finally perceived the truth of the Clinton II campaign.

        •  and the obama campaign (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          for that matter. selective outrage, as ever.

          •  yes, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            your selective outrage is indeed sad to see. Has been for weeks now.

            Are you going to continue trolling this place, bashing Markos and this site as "no longer serving the best interests of the Democratic Party," while meanwhile flapping about as press agent for a banned bully, and carnival-barking to lure the rubes over to The Clinton Coaster?

            It's getting pretty tiresome.

            •  actually (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              i admitted i was wrong about that. as you know. and that was in a comment, it certainly wasn't in a diary i posted. unlike some people we know, who posted diaries with sources such as drudge, or someone media matters three times called out for being a smear merchant. i don't recall your outrage over those.

              and i will do whatever i feel like, as long as certain people continue to post dishonest, unsourced, refuted smears. i'm sorry you don't like armando. many do. he's a respected blogger. i never knew him during his dark phase, and i appreciate the person i've gotten to know. and i'm also sorry you don't like the left coaster. we're small, but more people read us each day than read any top-of-the-rec-list diaries i ever posted here. and some of the people there are pro-hillary. i know that's a crime against humanity, in this echo chamber. but some of us aren't pro-hillary, although we defend her against the democatic starr chamber. and steve lashed out at her, today. i defended samantha power. go figure.

              i realize you're all in, which necessitates simplicity and double-standards. whatever works for you.

              •  i just (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                think this behavior is beneath you. I can understand your outrage at the FP posts on the video, but at some point you need to let it go. As an example, elise and clonecone roared around the site for about 48 hours after the Harvey Milk diary, but then clonecone took a couple weeks off, and elise backed off. I think it is unseemly for you to continue to devote the vast majority of your comments to bashing Markos & the site, in increasingly incendiary terms, while meanwhile seeking out those disenchanted with the site to suggest they go to blogs that you are affiliated with.

                You did admit you were wrong on the NAFTA thing, and I credit you for that. The point was that, in my opinion, you there displayed a penchant for leaping onto a dubious story that was hurtful to Obama in the same way you have criticized others for leaping onto dubious stories that are hurtful to HRC. Nobody is clean here, anymore. As an example: me. I am, as you say "all in," though, as you know, less for Obama, then for detaching the parasitical Clinton Party from the Democratic Party, where, in my opinion, it is doing more damage than a bellyful of tapeworms.

                That is why I disagree with you that Markos and this site are "no longer serving the best interests of the Democratic Party." HRC, in, to take but the most obvious example, disparaging a Democratic candidate in comparison to the Republican nominee, is the one who is to me "no longer serving the best interests of the Democratic Party." This blog, as the FAQ states, is both a Democratic blog, and a reform blog. Reform will not come from the Clinton Party, and the Democratic Party will not be served by allowing the parasitical Clinton Party to do whatever it takes to destroy a Democrat so that it may reoccupy the throne.

                •  i didn't leap into that one (0+ / 0-)

                  as i've said, when susanhu originally posted on it, i snarked along with everyone else. then i saw that the ap claimed to have a memo, and it looked real. i was wrong. but at least i didn't post a diary on it. and as for letting it go- kos has posted to the front page now, what- five times- an absolutely scurrilous smear that has been refuted, both here and elsewhere, over and over. he's stirring the shitstorm, and he's doing it based on ludicrous anecdotal evidence, and unless you think he completely ignores the comments, he's doing it dishonestly. and i realize how much you hate the clintons, but if you think obama's going to "reform" the party, you're delusional.

                  •  well, (0+ / 0-)

                    I don't know about delusional. ; ) Regardless of whether Obama himself is committed to reform, from what I've gathered from the FP posters on this site, and elsewhere, his candidacy is introducing energized people into the party, increasing the likelihood of victory for down-ticket, reform candidates, many of whom, as I understand it, are praying that HRC will not sit atop the ticket, as they regard that as disastrous for their own chances.

                •  oh, and (0+ / 0-)

                  i'm also inviting people to eenr blog, which i am not affiliated with. but yes- if kos is chasing people away, i'm offering them options of good places to go. how low of me.

            •  Makes me wonder (0+ / 0-)

              When people feel the need to gather information of what they feel are past sins. Is there some satisfaction in that? I notice it is a favored tactic of a certain number of users.

              Question: Do people bookmark certain posts for future reference? Are they kept handy at a moments notice when interacting with users they disagree?

              Edwards Democrats ActBlue Reed LA-01, Kissell NC-08, Welsh IN-06, Ryan KY-01, Taylor NC-09

              by LaEscapee on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 02:04:44 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  Hey Barack, wanna be the Canadian PM? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    According to a recent poll, he'd be the slam dunk winner - no matter which of the two majot parties he led - Liberal or Conservative. Go figure.

  •  Red Meat much?......eom (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    "A change would do U.S. good!"

    by AnnieM on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:26:10 AM PST

  •  Well... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FlipYrWhig, gobucky, AnnieM, Dauphin this situation I think there may have been a non-derogatory, graphic design reason for the black/white level shift.

    If you look at the straight conversion the background is awfully white, almost as white as the mailer's background. That would leave the photo looking awkward, with a cutoff bust of Ford floating in mid-air without a bounding box to separate it from the rest of the outlay. I, myself, would've darkened the image (by changing the levels) to the point where there was a good contrast between the background of the photo and the color of the mailer's paper. It would've looked terrible otherwise.

    Unless there was some additional information about this that I don't know about, I honestly don't think this is anything. Or, if there is, it coincided with good graphic design and isn't really a good example (whereas the OJ Simpson magazine cover is a really good example).

    (-2.75, -4.92) | Hillary has confetti, Barack has delegates

    by Addison on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:26:48 AM PST

    •  Ford's photo is already in a light-grey box (0+ / 0-)

      I'd just drop that down another millimeter to provide a border with the white background, or shrink the photo.  This was pretty clearly intentional (as the image of Ford is the darkest thing in the page, even darker than the dark-grey areas of the mailer).

  •  Are you making the case (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kevvboy, Turkana

    against Obama deliberatley or are you just being oblivious?

    i can't quite make up my mind about it all.   Ford curried favour with Fox, he's good looking, brilliant speaker etc...and he lost when maybe he should have won in a landslide Dem year.

    You are blowing your own foot off here.

    "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

    by Salo on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:28:25 AM PST

  •  Does it happen? Yes. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Do we need to beat a dead horse? No.

    That's my take on the whole thing.

    We are a party of innovation...We are willing to suffer the discomfort of change in order to achieve a better future. -- Barbara Jordan

    by wmtriallawyer on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:28:41 AM PST

  •  From a technical standpoint... (9+ / 0-)

    Web images are too low-res for print, so if it was taken form his website and converted to print you lose quality right there. Now add to that, when something is printed on uncoated paper there is also a loss of quality due to the absorption of the ink, hence it gets darker. Your beating a dead horse...

  •  Why not just admit you were wrong? (5+ / 0-)

    Really, isn't that what a grown-up should do?

    If you refuse to vote for OUR PARTY'S nominee in November, the blood of a thousand back-alley abortions will be on your hands.

    by dhonig on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:30:02 AM PST

  •  KOS is still pushing stuff... (9+ / 0-)

    ...that even Drudge and Faux News have dropped and moved on from?  Has it come to that?

    You can guarantee that if there was an iota of substance to this that the Obama Campaign and/or its surrogates in the African American community would pound Clinton relentlessly over it and rightly so.

    Give it a rest, you are embarassing yourself.

  •  Sorry (7+ / 0-)

    But this is getting into conspiracy theory range. Different printing techniques, different image capturing and editing techniques and different paper stocks can all produce images that can appear faded, darker or fuzzier. It's why you don't keep making a copy of a copy. Show that the same techniques used do not distort a white person's image, and then this argument might make more sense.

    Do Pavlov's dogs chase Schroedinger's cat?

    by corwin on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:31:14 AM PST

  •  Yawn (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    phenry, Kevvboy, Turkana, bten

    Yawn..boring.  Keep it up Kos.  Great to see you are calling the Hillary Clinton campaign racists.  I wonder what the charges will be tomorrow?  

  •  Why do some people (0+ / 0-)

    keep calling it "playing the race card"

  •  Aw, shucks, it was an accident... (0+ / 0-)

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -Mohandas Gandhi

    by ezdidit on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:32:23 AM PST

  •  What the hell is going on here? (13+ / 0-)

    I haven't posted here very much lately, mostly because I've been too busy. But I've been around since (if I remember correctly) mid 2003, and something weird has happened in this election cycle. Even back then, when everyone (almost) on Kos was for Dean, the front-pagers and most of the commenters were respectful of the other candidates and all said they would support whomever won. In fact, after Iowa people coalesced around Kerry amazingly fast and we were a powerful force.

    So I repeat, what the hell?

    You are essentially accusing Hillary Clinton of one of the worst bits of racism any candidate -- Jesse Helms included -- has ever used in a federal race. Hillary friggin' Clinton! Whose husband was famously called the "first Black president" and who left office with like an 80% approval rating among African Americans. And who grew up on MLK and the civil rights movement. And you're doing it on the slimmest of circumstantial arguments (the skin got darker so it must have been intentional). You're as bad as Limbaugh.

    And whatever happened to "my party comes first"? What if Hillary DOES win the nomination? I repeat, wtf?

    Who the fuck are you? And what did you do with Kos?

  •  Kos, props to you for sticking with it (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Thaxter, jabbausaf, Over the Edge

    You've taken some heat for it, but I feel you make an excellent point. The practice of altering an opponent's image is dubious and indefensible It's an attempt even when done to a white opponent to make them appear less acceptable. When you turn that practice on non-whites in this country it plays directly into racist stereotypes.

    Distorting an opponents appearance is an unsavory tactic that should be denounced and rejected by any American candidate that is committed to fairness and intelligent political discourse.

    If this was done accidentally, then I would expect the Clinton campaign to clarify their intentions and commit to more care in the future.

    If it was on purpose, then I would expect pressure from her party to back off such unsavory practices.

    I'm surprised that anyone feels that arguing it was an accident somehow makes it a non-issue. Or that because it was done in the past it's an acceptable political practice. As the political landscape opens up to people of other backgrounds, ethnicities, genders, and orientations I would think it would be pretty clear that these good old boy "pranks" are going to have to be retired. It's not an insider game anymore and it should be played with more dignity and respect that an ads like these demonstrate.

    "I ain't so afraid of losing something that I ain't gonna try to have it." Zoe (Firefly)

    by geejay on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:33:37 AM PST

  •  Kos is scared (6+ / 0-)

    Kos is afraid that he will not run the Democratic Party if Hillary gets elected. are not the democratic party.  Daily Kos is not the Democratic party.  It's only a small part of it.  Stop making a fool of yourself with these stupid accustions.  

  •  Thank you Markos, real Americans are... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...with you all the way.  Thanks for standing up for equality, righteousness, truth and a better America.

  •  If Hillary wins (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kevvboy, Turkana, bten

    If Hillary wins the nomination, Kos will have to get a day job.  This site will go under.  His raving Obama passion will be his undoing.

  •  Thank you. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Over the Edge
  •  Thanks for Posting This Kos (0+ / 0-)

    The people on this site who ridicule this exposure of HRC's racist tactics are supporting race baiting politics, pure and simple. Up to this point I was willing to vote for Clinton if she were the nominee. But Hillary's Darkie Ad did it for me. I'll never support her.

    I find it appalling that so many people on this site excuse, defend, rationalize, or otherwise ignore the truly vile nature of this racist tactic employed by Hillary Clinton.

    Clinton supporters: If you want to vote for a candidate who exploits racial division for her own gain, that's your choice. But don't try to defend your repulsive support of race-baiting tactics on this site without being called on it.

  •  Seriously? Really? (7+ / 0-)

    There's no way a copy of a photo simply came out darker than the source photo?

    I print pictures all the time that end up with an entirely different contrast than the source image appears on my computer monitor or camera screen.

    Hell, I can probably come up with 3 different "shades" of skin tone if I just look at this page with my 3 different computer monitors.

    This seems like a very half baked accusation....

  •  If we're going to be honest (0+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Hidden by:

    Harold Fordl ooks scarier in the real picture. He's liek that alien from that one episode of Star Trek who appears on the end credits.

    I was elected President of my Senior Class. I peaked.

    by greatn on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:39:46 AM PST

  •  Black and White (0+ / 0-)

    are iconic colors of great power and have been part of western culture since it started.  Black is night and it is bad and scary and white is day and it is warm and safe.  We should call people brown and cream.  Whole new set of connotations.

    Just so we're clear: I favor Obama

    by David in Burbank on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:40:25 AM PST

  •  There is hope for Kos (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Skjellifetti, LaEscapee, h bridges

    If Hillary does win the presidency, Kos can go on the RNC payroll and the Daily Kos can become a branch of the Republican National Committee.  I can't tell much difference now.

  •  I think this energy would be better spent. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, dfarrah

    If you nitpicked this much about the widely documented problem of electronic voting machines, then Dems would have been in office 4 years ago and we wouldn't be complaining about something as small and insignicant as the contrast in a photo.

    Instead we are going to complain about how dark a photo is and hypothesize that it was intentionally stretched to widen his nose...and Democrats will still have massive difficulties getting into office becuase voting machines crash, are easily hacked without a trace, or going on insecure "sleep-overs".

    Honestly Kos, you DO have the right and power here to highlight whatever issue you like.  But if you are serious about real and fair democracy then there are bigger problems than crappy photocopies or print jobs.  If people are racist, then they are going to use ANY excuse not to vote for Obama.  They don't need a darkened photo to worry them...anything will do.  

    •  Are you white? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Over the Edge

      Because if you are, how can you know how much this impacts black voters? And if you can't know, how can you decide it's not important to talk about?

      Every single time race is brought up on Kos, there's someone who can't wait to shut the conversation down.

      I am tired of people telling me what's important to me.

      •  what do you mean by impacting black voters? (0+ / 0-)

        Surely the other way around?  

        Maybe it impacts black candidates...but probably not in a Democratic Primary. Most Dems are very happy that Obama is running.   It's a good thing. It's proven to be a net positive.

        In the General it's a different question of course.

        "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

        by Salo on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:49:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  it impacts black voters when they are (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Over the Edge

          continually marginalized, disrespected, and disregarded in a campaign. To see these things happening -- this harms people in a very real way, and it is offensive to hear people who are not harmed by it, trying to stop others from talking about it.

          •  to see Obama in a Clinton advert? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            he just doesn't want to let her use his image in any of her ads at all. That's all this is about.

            "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

            by Salo on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:55:44 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Then let's talk about race...seriously. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dfarrah, gobucky, vcmvo2, h bridges

        I may be white, but there are WAY bigger problems impacting black people in this democracy than that photo.  My opinion is that photo does NOTHING to change anyone's mind.  Nobody is confused about Barack's race.  So why would a darkened photo suddenly change people's minds.  Oh!  I didn't realize Barack was black before!  This photo worries me.  People who are racist are already going to look for ANY excuse to not vote Obama.  Too many stop signs on the way to vote is good enough reason for them.  This photo issue is irrelevant and a sign the Democrats are just as big of suckers for media-distracitons as Republicans are.

        But let's talk about race.  Please.  Let's talk about how in areas where voters are majority black, voting machines have a habbit of disappearing or not being used forcing HOUR long lines.  Hello?  Ohio 2004?  Let's talk about voter caging overwhelmingly targetting African Americans.  Let's talk about purging of voter rolls if your name is even remotely close to that of a criminal in the state.  Oops.  Sorry.  No voting for your.

        And let's talk about all the PROVEN problems with electronic voting machines that can flip votes, not count votes, lose votes, etc. Problems which overwhelmingly seem to occur in Democratic voting districts, and yes, that affects black people as well as white or any other race.

        As it stands now, we aren't allowed to discuss this issue here, and KOS has no desire to even consider it himself.  So we're going to bitch and moan about how "scary" a darkened photo may be and yet black people may not even get their damn vote counted anyway.  Assuming they even wait the countless hours it takes for them to vote in the first place.

        If that happens this year, I hope, while you are waiting in line all day long, you seriously think about all the time you wasting over the contrast of a photo in an ad.   Hell, I would even argue your energy is better saved up for the tactics Republicans will dish out.  Because if THIS seems like such a terrible and aggregious insult, you may as well leave now, because the crap McCain will pull will make the SwiftBoating of Kerry seem like honest and fair play.

        •  There are people who have said this (0+ / 0-)

          impacted their vote, and that they didn't realize he was "that dark."

          Regarding this comment:

          I may be white, but there are WAY bigger problems impacting black people in this democracy than that photo.

          Exactly how do you know what problems are important to black people? How did you decide that?

          It's all one ball of wax -- the photos, Obama in Kenyan clothes, the Jesse Jackson comment, on and on.

          You want to let the darkening of photos slide? Fine. Go right ahead. But do not presume to know what should be important for people who are different from you.

          •  So the tell me. (0+ / 0-)

            Which is more important?  Talking about ending racism, or actually being able to VOTE which is what brings in leaders and official who can actually ACT and create POLICY that affects the nation and can therefore bring about equality.

            You don't like this photo issue.  Fine.  That is your right.  But while you are complaining about this, states are loading up with voting machines that may now even allow you to vote AT ALL. Makes no difference what the campaign is like or how dirty it is.  VOTING brings real change and you may not get the chance to vote, or have that vote counter accurately.

            •  You're full of it (0+ / 0-)

              Because I don't have to choose -- I WILL talk about racism AND support my candidate.

              And if voting is everything, why are so many black people still suffering under a racist system?

              •  How? (0+ / 0-)

                Seriously.  How can you say you are supporting your candidate at all when there are electronic voting machines.

                You don't.

                That's my point. That's what I feel is the more serious issue.  The loss of our democracy for EVERYONE.

                The fact you fail to grasp that point only solidifies my resolve that Kos should be using his soap box for more relevant issues.

          •  And one more time (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            vcmvo2, simsink

            If this impacts people's vote...then they weren't going to vote for Obama anyway.  They are racist and would have used any excuse at all not to vote for him.  The photo thing is just their excuse to justify their racism clouding their decision making.

            If it wasn't this photo, they would have used something Hillary said, or they would have used some fake scandal that the media keeps talking about with details, or McCain saying "Obama hates cheese" would have set them off.  That's my piont.  The photo issue is a red herring. It's a distraction.

            I'm agreeing there is a problem.  I just don't see this photo being worth tearing up and dividing the party over.  We should be better than this.  We're acting like Republicans.  We may as well turn on Limbaugh right now and read Ann Coulter.

            •  You are not wanting to understand (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Over the Edge

              this issue from a non-white perspective.

              And so you don't -- not sure you are going to.

              •  You're right and I'm wrong. (0+ / 0-)

                Sorry.  I apologize.  Clearly the ability for Democrats and minorities to have their vote counted is not important.Kos is right to prevent people from talking about that here. Darkening photos is the real issue.  We should be lightening all photos of black people to make them more appealing to racist redneck white people.  Otherwise there will never be a positive change.

                I was pushing a "white perspective" and trying to dictate others.  For that I am sorry.  I truly wish you the best of luck in November.

              •  Rosencrantz is (0+ / 0-)

                correct in saying that protecting your right to vote is extremely important.

                You may not be aware of this, but [repub] Secretaries of State all over the country are trying to devise ways to suppress the minority/low income vote, from very burdensome identification and residency rules to purging voter roles.  These types of actions usually have a larger negative impact on minorities and low income groups than whites and high income groups.

                And the Supreme Court certainly isn't going to be an ally for us in these matters as they have been in the past.  

                IMO, there is much racism in this society; however, HRC's 'racism' is probably the least of  minority/low income voters' worries right now.

                Bush's presidency is now inextricably yoked to the policies of aggression and subjugation. Mike Whitney

                by dfarrah on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:14:09 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  That, is an issue for minority/low income voters (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Over the Edge

                  to decide. No one else should be trying to speak for us.

                  •  Suit yourself; (0+ / 0-)

                    I don't know what state you're in, but maybe at least double-check with your election commission that you are registered--and if you live in a predominantly minority area, it wouldn't hurt to keep checking on occasion.

                    Last presidential election, I served as an observer, and I observed a handful of people who insisted that they had been registered for years for their precinct, but were not on the current voting list.  I live in a largely AA area; I'm sure they had lived there for years.  They were given provisional ballots.  I'm not sure what the problem was, but no one wants to go to their regular precinct only to discover that they are not on the voting list.

                    Bush's presidency is now inextricably yoked to the policies of aggression and subjugation. Mike Whitney

                    by dfarrah on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:32:08 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  I'm non-white (0+ / 0-)

                and I don't understand the point of this either.

  •  Zzzzzzzzz (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:


  •  See...Hillary is as bad as a Republican! (0+ / 0-)

    Is this supposed to make up for yesterday? Is this a justification to all the people that wrote GBCW diaries?

  •  May I ask (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Is Obama black enough?
    Kos believes Obama is white.

  •  Forget the race card quit playing the victim card (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Why is this a question or concern?
    The answer is, yes.  
    Opposition photos of Barrack will be darkened and retouched to make him look as sinister and untrustworthy as popular.  

    So What?

    Do you believe the Republicans or even Obama’s campaigns will try to find photos that are flattering to Hillary Clinton?  Of course not.  It would be political stupidity to try to make an opponent look better and more trustworthy.  I expect the Clinton campaign to show Barrack in the most unflattering light possible.  To do less would be irresponsible.  

    Folks this is a campaign battle.  And if you can’t stand the heat - get out of the kitchen.
    But for crying out loud, quit whining.

    If Obama is our nominee, then Barrack should thank Clinton for the challenge.  As steel sharpens steel, this primary battle must toughen the character of the candidate.  

    Any student of the Clinton’s understands they know how to take a punch.  Bill Clinton was accused of more and convicted of less than any man in history.  The Clintons have been accused of Murder, Rape, Drug Running, Adultery, Financial misdealing, False imprisonment, Intimidation, Lying, Perjury, and every other felony known to mankind.  Even during the midst of the impeachment trial, every new accusation of scandal produced an opposite effect; his public approval rating went up!  

    Quit bitching and learn to take a punch with a smile.  Forget playing the race card, it’s playing the victim card that we don’t want to see.  

    •  The picture was flattering (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tjekanefir, mdsiamese

      Obama looked good. he actually looked beter than in the stock MSNBC footage.  

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:47:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was starting to think I was the only one (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skiddie, mdsiamese

        I saw the Obama photos and thought "What are people carping about? It's not even an unflattering photo!"

        I can't say I get the fuss. I think everybody in the country knows that Obama is African-American, and he looks unmistakeably African-American in both the "before" and the "after" pictures anyway. And besides, if Hillary really wanted a picture of him looking really dark there are plenty of pictures of him out there where he already looks darker because he's in front of a white background or something, so why would she take a picture of him where he specifically looks lighter and darken it? That would just be stupid.

        As to Harold Ford though, I don't know whether everyone in Tennessee already knew he was black or not, so maybe mailing around a really black-looking photo of him would have been race-baiting. I don't know enough about how that race was going down to say. But I'm pretty sure that just about everyone in the country already knows Obama is black. Flying under the radar with low-information voters has NEVER been part of his style.

  •  Oh god, it's day 4 in the rabbit hole! <nt> (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, kenlac, gobucky, AnnieM, oklib77, h bridges
  •  slime (0+ / 0-)'s the same kind of people that do this type of thing who would have no problem manipulating America into a bloody war by simply propagating the idea that all arabs are alike so why not get our pound of flesh from Iraq? (after all, they've got the most oil. wink wink).

    Full Disclosure: "Dean and Me" Is An Ongoing Film Production

    by deantv on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:46:05 AM PST

  •  Like Obama's picture, Ford's picture looks... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, bten

    stretched too, but in the opposite direction...I wonder what that's suppose to mean?

    ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

    by leftbird on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:48:06 AM PST

  •  Just Stop It (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, AnnieM, bten, Abby Kelleyite

    Enough of this.

    We have real issues to discuss and an election to win.

    Don't go out of your way to enrage anybody -- you accomplish nothing and, in the process, you're destroying the character, respectability, and reliability of DailyKos.

    •  Yes, just close your eyes, sweep it under the rug (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Thaxter, Miles in WesternWA

      We don't want to face these things, that's why we support Hillary Clinton, because she makes us feel so comfortable with our prejudice, if she's doing it, it must be OK.

      •  Aaron, the next thing you know (0+ / 0-)

        people will be telling you that it's impossible that Sen. Clinton could ever have made an anti-Semitic slur against a fellow Democrat.

        Goodness NO - that could NEVER happen, could it?? ;o)  An ex-Republican, millionaire, corporate attorney like her could NEVER even think of saying such a thing, right?

        Maybe Nixon would, but NOT Hillary.  lol

  •  The TRUTH HURTS doesn't it. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Thaxter, Miles in WesternWA, munodi

    Especially those white folks in this country who are so comfortable living in their blissful denial

    I remember when everyone was attacking me for pointing out these ugly realities, I'm so glad that I won Markos over, and that he has now seen the light.

    Fight the power my brother.

    Kiri Davis, a high school girl using children from Harlem

  •  This post blackens Daily Kos (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, mdsiamese, Skjellifetti

    Sorry for racism

    Sorry I have to run to the Senate floor to abolish torture.

    by bten on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:51:16 AM PST

  •  Where are we going with all this? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Blacks are already supporting Obama 90-10%+. You wont outrage more of them to support her. You're already at maximum support. All this hysteria over the HRC ad may do is send a message to on-the-fence whites that Barack is the "black candidate". Is this really what we want to be focusing on?

    •  Markos is trying to wake up Clinton supporter... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miles in WesternWA, munodi who Clinton really is, and what she really represents in America, and it's ugly and despicable.

      •  clinton hating is ugly and despicable (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Sorry I have to run to the Senate floor to abolish torture.

        by bten on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:14:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  then he didn't learn anything from the 90s (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skiddie, LaEscapee

        real Clinton supporters don't let other people tell us what we should think about the Clintons.

      •  Or Maybe Markos (0+ / 0-)

        is seeing things that aren't there. A couple of years ago, Markos jumped all over some conservative commentator for using some language that insinuated that someone was gay. Turned out that Markos didn't know that the same words used by the commentator meant something completely different in the geek/technology world that was the subject of the piece. A couple of days after tearing the guy a new a**hole, Markos apologized. Oops!

        -- You are all individuals! -- I'm not! -- Shut up! Be quiet!

        by Skjellifetti on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:38:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What the heck (3+ / 0-)

          are you talking about?

          You have me confused with someone else.

          •  If It Wasn't You (0+ / 0-)

            Then I apologise. The story was a front pager here (in fact several front pagers) that went on here for a few days before the story author finally caught on to the fact that he simply was out of the geek language loop. I wish I could remember when (about the time I started lurking here) or the exact details. Just that it was a DK front page story where the DK author had completely and totally confused some innocuous geek/techno /. lingo in some rightwing column with an anti-gay slur and ended up writing a whole series of embarrassing rants before the cluestick had finally registered enough hits. The whole thing pretty much convinced me that this site shouldn't be taken too seriously.

            -- You are all individuals! -- I'm not! -- Shut up! Be quiet!

            by Skjellifetti on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 01:00:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  has he apologised about the video (0+ / 0-)

        he was shrieking about last week? and was so very wrong about? If so it was not a front page story...

        "I will sink federalism into an abyss from which there shall be no resurrection..." Thomas Jefferson

        by tony the American Mutt on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 10:22:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Scare Us Craptastic! (0+ / 0-)

    I love the line:  It's election season son.  These people spend the whole day scaring you craptastic.  But there is no reason to reupholster the inside of your trousers and vote like a moron every time they say 'Boo'


    "Nineteen thugs with box cutters + George Bush's 'decidings' have destroyed the greatest military in the world."

    by Kdoug on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:52:24 AM PST

  • pwned Kos (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AnnieM, bten, leftbird

    and all he can do is show a poorly printed mailer from an old race without even linking to the analysis and criticism?

    Others will speculate about the Clinton campaign's intentions and motives, as they already have. But without further evidence to the contrary, we see no reason to conclude that this is anything more than a standard attempt to make an attack ad appear sinister, rather than a special effort to exploit racial bias as some Obama supporters are saying.

    Some Obama backers cry "racism." We find the accusation to be unsubstantiated.

    "Yours for Humanity" Abby Kelley

    by Abby Kelleyite on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:52:26 AM PST

  •  For instance... (8+ / 0-)

    From Senator Obama's South Carolina flyer:

    1. Note the difference in skin tones. Is the picture in front of the cross brightened to make him appear 'whiter'? Of course not. If anything is intended, it's a subliminal religious glow having nothing to do with race.

    1. The black and white photo also is considerably darker and shows him to be nasaly broad (looks like the picture has been slightly stretched to me). Sinister intent? Well, since it's his flyer we can probably rule that out.

    But the two things which disturb me most about this series of posts trying to prove a point:

    1. I never noticed Senator Obama's nose, even in the 'doctored' ad, until this site brought it to my attention. Nor have I paid any attention to his ears, lips, eyebrows or cheekbones. I wish such stereotyping could have been left in the dusty past.

    1. Senator Clinton has gone overboard in her quest for power, particularly in her new enthusiasm for John McCain (which as I diaried yesterday, has now put this die-hard Edwards' supporter in Senator Obama's column). That should be the focus of front page treatment.

    Not this.

    Not this.

    The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. - H.L. Mencken

    by two roads on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:53:12 AM PST

    •  Stop it, please, just stop it (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skiddie, dfarrah, Kevvboy, two roads

      There's no need to mess up this frenzy with facts or reasonable explanations.  You're just helping McCain and destroying the Democratic Party.  We want our witch burned and we want it now!

    •  Since you know how to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skiddie, two roads

      do these sorts of things [post pictures and all], do you think you could post pictures in which the ad-makers make a white candidate look threatening or sinister with the use of colors?  [really, there has to be a bazillion of these types of pictures of HRC herself!]

      IMO, it is business as usual for political opponents to run ads with pictures of or about the opposition candidate in which the color and/or music/tone has been manipulated to arouse fear.

      And I'd bet members of both parties run these types of ads.

      Bush's presidency is now inextricably yoked to the policies of aggression and subjugation. Mike Whitney

      by dfarrah on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:24:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Who says... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, mdsiamese, vcmvo2

    darkening a person's features makes them look more sinister.

    Have you conducted a poll? You should check your premises.

    A false charge, based on false, archaic, anachronistic premises, bandied about on false fundamentals and no proof.

    Not "business as usual" for people, maybe for for the MSM...

    BTW, what message do you see in the yellowed picture?    

    HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

    by kck on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:58:18 AM PST

  •  just sayin'. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, kenlac, mdsiamese


    Take a look at the best Progressive T-Shirts around. Drawn by me! On sale now!

    by The Gryffin on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 10:59:33 AM PST

  •  Turned brightness up 50 in Photoshop (0+ / 0-)

    Ford is still darker than the source image... notice the entire paper is now completely white, even the grey box next to Ford.

    If I turn the constast up 50 on the original source photo, as I've done above, Ford actually looks lighter.

    This was clearly deliberate, and not a printing error.  If it wasn't deliberate Ford the light shade of grey in the donations box to the right of Ford would be a lot darker.

  •  Lost Cause (0+ / 0-)

    Why don't you also post other ads/commercials that include white opponents?

    The creative strategy is to show your candidate in bright full color and your opponent in dark subdued tones.

    This is a bogus issue going nowhere.

  •  Markos's Southern Strategy (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    moira977, Kevvboy, Skjellifetti, SBoswell

    How was it Markos? Did it taste even better the second time around?

    Where was Markos when Harold Ford was being smeared by Bob Corker in the "Call Me Harold" ad?

    Did Markos reject racist GOP dog-whistle tactics when they were being used against Harold Ford during the Senate campaign between Ford and GOP Corker?

    As I recall, Markos was pushing the smear campaign against Harold Ford at DailyKos~~helping the GOP southern strategy on the left flank, if you will.

    Now, Markos is exploiting GOP racists' smear against Rep. Harold Ford, in order to smear Sen. Clinton.

    This is brilliant!

    A deliberate strategy to re-smear Harold Ford, and smear Sen. Clinton at the same time, using GOP racist politics.

    It's sort of like vomiting up your favorite dinner so you can eat it a second time, because you enjoyed it so much the first!

    Congratulations, Markos.

    "Hope has to be made a reality in politics." ~ Hillary Clinton

    by SignalSuzie on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:02:18 AM PST

  •  Dude, you're just making a complete fool of (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bten, RavinDave, h bridges

    yourself now.

    •  Nope. Kos is right! (0+ / 0-)

      But if you've ever said something like:

      "No matter who the Democratic nominee is, it goes without saying that I'll vote for him/her in November.." then YOU are at risk of making a fool of yourself.

      Why?  Because you are now forced into a box; no matter how racist Sen. Clinton's comments or tactics are, you have to say "The Clintons are NOT racist...  they just will do anything to win."  

      Psychological Defense Mechanism

      This sort of contortion is necessary to protect yourself in the event that Sen. Clinton DOES win the Democratic nomination, and you find yourself in the humiliating position of voting for a racist.  LOL  

  •  I thought Obama was hope and change (6+ / 0-)

    I thought the message that Obama wanted people to know about him and his campaign was that in him we have hope for a better future, that he is a change from the ugly politics of the past. Why then is this site mired in negativity, why is Kos mired in proving negativity? Is this what Obama wants us to focus on? Seriously - think about it. Does Obama want us to obsess over whether a picture of him had its color altered? Or does he want us to obsess over the ideals of his candidacy?

    Kos has jumped the shark, but the rest of us don't have to. When will the rec-list be filled with positive diaries about Obama rather than hate-filled attacks on Hillary?

  •  Maybe, Kos, you're (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mdsiamese, SBoswell

    just plain wrong about your conclusion that the darkening of people is not just 'business as usual' in the marketing world.

    Has this darkening never happened to white candidates?  

    Geez, I wish I had the linking and research skills [and access besides dial up--which really causes a huge problem when you're trying to look at pictures];  I'll bet I could find numerous pictures of white candidates who were darkened, with ominous, grainy, grey backgrounds [along with ominous threatening music]. Or maybe the commercial did not include a picture of the candidate, but what was shown was darkened or colored in some unnatural way to arouse fear in relation to some political candidate.  

    Bush's presidency is now inextricably yoked to the policies of aggression and subjugation. Mike Whitney

    by dfarrah on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:08:24 AM PST

  •  No basis to the Hillary photoshopping (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kevvboy, beauchapeau, bten, Rasputin

    It looks like Kos is still trying to promote the charge that the Clinton campaign intentionally applied image processing to make Obama look darker and more stereotypically African.

    In the absence of proof, this just fans the flames of racial politics. To devote so many posts to this item is really sad and should not be what this site is all about. The Kos brand is suffering from this. Many of you Obama supporters may lap this stuff up, but really it is just reducing the site's creditability and future effectiveness.

    Honest arguments need honest effort

    by Political Logic on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:09:30 AM PST

  •  Did The Clinton (0+ / 0-)

    Campaign help with this piece too? I am done with her. My GE night might be spent playing Rock Band.

  •  kos, as a new user here, i must say (7+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    skiddie, dfarrah, kenlac, bten, RavinDave, h bridges, SBoswell
    Hidden by:

    i think more and more each time i come that you are an idiot.

    this is michelle malkin-ish, to harp on something that's been demonstrated to be false, to ignore evidence and make shrill, incendiary comments solely to rile people up.

    yep, you're an idiot.

    •  No, he's not. (0+ / 0-)

      He's just a Democrat who happens to be of partially minority heritage himself (Latin American ancestry), so maybe he has a better grasp of the nuances of racism than YOU ever would.

      Get a grip.

      •  b.s. to argue that only a minority can talk about (0+ / 0-)

        this issue.  totally b.s.

        you know nothing about my heritage, and i'm not going to tell you about it, because it's a bogus and, frankly, an offensive line to make.  you're offensive and wrong.

        •  Try to read a little better (0+ / 0-)

          Nothing was said about "ONLY a minority can talk about this issue."

          What was said, in part, was " maybe he has a better grasp of the nuances of racism than YOU ever would."

          There was a reason for that remark:  My experience is that in the USA, typically persons who are NOT visible minorities with a strong heritage of oppression/discrimination in this country are the first to dismiss comments like Kos's.  

          Minorities and non-minorities alike ranging from Dinesh D'Souza to George Will to David Brooks are the sort of folks I have in mind.  None of them would have a CLUE as to the legitimacy of what Kos is talking about.  It's an abstraction they'd easily dismiss because it's outside the realm of their personal experience.

          Sorry if I offended you; I found your dismissal of Kos profoundly offensive.

    •  A new user with a UID of 29840? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Pleased to meet you, Mr. Van Winkle.

      "[Expletive] all of you," [Singer] shouted.... "[Expletive] you!" Ickes shouted. "[Expletive] you!" Penn replied. "[Expletive] you!" Ickes shouted again.

      by Over the Edge on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 01:11:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  OK, on this one I'm not so sure. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kenlac, mdsiamese, Salo

    Would I put it past the GOP? Of course not. Is it possible they darkened Ford's image to make him look more black? Yes.

    But unlike the Obama video -- which even factcheck acknowledged was manipulated -- the Ford ad can be explained away somewhat rationally. As a 20-something, I worked as a pressman at a newspaper. It's a fact that images, especially in black and white, often appear darker than the original. This is especially true in large print runs such as this mailer, where quality isn't necessarily paramount. There were many times customers complained about the pictures being too dark. We would try to compenstate by lightening the transfer image, or twisting back on the black ink during the press run. I'm as skeptical as GOP dirty tricks as the next guy, but here there's at least an explanation.

    Don't Legitimize Fox News.
    "Democrats have the heart to care."

    by jeepdad on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:13:36 AM PST

  •  WELCOME TO DAY FOUR (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mdsiamese, bten, Ms Johnson

    of Kos' pathetic race baiting. ZZZZzzzzzzz

  •  Bigger fish to fry (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    beauchapeau, leftbird, SBoswell

    How dark they make a photo is really deserving of all this?

    Everyone, on both sides, does this to both candidates, black and white.

    This is a non-issue.  For christs sake next you will be mad if they use a non-flattering picture.  Gimme a break, this is childish complaining.

    Focus on real issues.

  •  Reading these comments (2+ / 0-)

    I have come to the conclusion that some people think that this country is not still inherently covertly, and subtly racist.

    We that are gen xers and younger are living in a world of increaed diversity and increased civil liberties and civil rights. We have not been exposed to the lunch counter, Jim Crow, segregation America. We do not how it feels first hand. So therefore we assume that it is non-existent.

    Racism is real and it is alive an well in America.  Now racism comes in the forms of institutional and structural. The Clinton's are usuing dog whistles to remind the inner fear of some queasy Blue Bloods, that Obama is black and he is a risk.

    Black Americans have not been empowered to the point of full integration. We have a better grasp on equality of opportunity but we are far away from equality of results. We have to work twice as hard to get half as much notice.

    It is real

    "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience" --Adam Smith

    by BlackBox on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:23:19 AM PST

    •  No (0+ / 0-)

      They do realize that this country is racist but they also realize that darkening of photos is an equal opportunity smear of any political candidate.

      •  I guess I should have been more clear (0+ / 0-)

        I should have said the people that are commenting and believe that the Clinton's are not racists or use racists tactics.

        I believe that they are and this particular campaign has exposed them to their secret of being racists.

        "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience" --Adam Smith

        by BlackBox on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:35:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  it doesn't need the Clinton's to destroy the (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          emal, kelley74ny, LaEscapee, SBoswell

          unity of the democratic Party. We are doing a fabulous job all by oursleves right here. Just think, DK and its enlightened or endarkened members will suceed in handing the election to the Repubs on a silver platter. I don't know what the gossip and/or buzz is in your neck of the woods, here, in a very liberal niche of a faintly purple state, at a dinner party even hardened liberals are predicting that the democrats will self implode. We seem to be doing our god damned best to make that prophecy come true.

          We are doing exactly what we accuse the MSM of doing. I am saddened and disgusted.  This shit sticks.

          •  I think our discussion (0+ / 0-)

            is productive and great. We can't keep sweeping racism under the rug. Its real and we need to get it out in the open.

            I live in Chicago which is becoming increasingly more diverse. However, we should be frank and not be afraid to call racism, racism.

            And, this discussion is bringing the problem to the forefront. The Clinton's need to be exposed and properly dealt with, punished, and rejected by the democratic party.

            I agree there is no room in our party for such behavior and they do not need to be coddled or provided with various explanations.

            Our party is experiencing growing pains. And it hurts to purge and part ways with the old and accept and embrace the new and expanding aspects of our party.

            "Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience" --Adam Smith

            by BlackBox on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:04:23 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  sois sexism and ageism. Try being an elderly (0+ / 0-)

      woman in this increasingly gender and class based war that is raging out there.  It is scary and reminds me of the 'Clockwork Orange' period of the not so distant past of the 60's.

      Look for more domestic violence, racial and elederly abuse before this wave crashes through and we all find ourselves stranded on the beach.

  •  Having fun (0+ / 0-)

    with this at LFG...

  •  This is a business... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Controversy increases traffic and traffic is good for business.

    Just an opinion, but I can't understand why all the diaries that cause so much tension among Democrats get onto the recommended list.

    ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

    by leftbird on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:31:14 AM PST

  •  Kos, please help me here. So if they are making (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Norm in Chicago

    Obama look darker, they must be making McCain lighter.  Is that why the guy looks like Casper the Friendly Ghost?  He looks so white that he is almost transparent.

    Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't. Pete Seeger

    by Mas Gaviota on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 11:36:58 AM PST

  •  As I've said before (0+ / 0-)

    Why does this issue matter when Kos has already labeled Hillary a racist?

  •  kos (6+ / 0-)

    You don't even like Harold Ford. You hate his politics. It was very evident on MTP. Now you say he's a victim to support your irrational argument that the Clinton campaign darkened a Barack advert? How silly!

    •  Not liking a candidate (0+ / 0-)

      and not liking a gutter tactic are two very different things.  The hot (sleazy?) blond begging Harold to call her was all about appealing to racist.  Bill Cunningham was told by Mike DeWine to through the crowd "red meat".  The Drudge photo was meant to appeal to the Archie Bunkers in Ohio.  Archie had a decent soul, he was just full of anger and bluster.  Anger and bluster scare the boogiemen away.  Hillary's 3 a.m. add is all about boogiemen.  I would love to see a woman president (go Tina Fey!) but with Bush/Cheney who needs boogiemen?  

  •  We need to find US Asian politicos (0+ / 0-)

    and determine if any opponent flyers made them look more yellow and slanty eyed.

  •  Do racists really care how dark a black guy is? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emal, Salo, SBoswell, simsink

    Sorry, but I just don't understand what target audience this "darkening" is aimed at.  Racists don't really care if a black guy is mocha or expresso.

    I have a racist grandfather who doesn't like Greeks and Italians because they're too dark.  People like him aren't voting for Obama anyway.  A +2 contrast setting on a photo is going to make a difference?

    You mean to tell me there is actually somebody out there who was willing to vote for Obama, then saw the 'darker' photo and said:
    "Holy Shit, Obama's black!!  Like, yeah he's a black guy, but now he's REALLY black, and well I was fine voting for a regular black guy, but the REALLY black guy, hell no, I'm votin' for Clinton!"

    Please.  Nobody like that exists.

    •  Yes. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Because those who coined the terms "black comedy" and "dark sense of humor" know something.

      And if we are completely honest, we will admit that a lighter skinned black man like Obama, who is "articulate" (doesn't sound black") who discusses "mainstream themes" (white issues) and reaches across party lines (makes conservatives more comfortable, ie: he's one of the "good" ones.) is more likely to get elected in the GE?

      I am not racist, and I  love this candidate, so can I offer some advise to those who would hope to appeal to this demograohic??

      Kill them with kindness. If that fails, just kill them.

      by JesusQ on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:17:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama's Black? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emal, kenlac, bten, Norm in Chicago

    Holy shit.

  •  Folks, lets be honest (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Over the Edge, SBoswell

    I have been in advertising and I can tell you that every detail is thought out and over-thought to ad nauseum. The area even MORE OVERTHOUGHT is anything related to race.

    Lemme tell you that whitey is super sensitive to not putting out an ad that will unintentionally (or intentionally) offend the AA community.  So the thought that a national ad could be released that (opps) made the opposing AA candidate look a little more dark and sinister is HILARIOUS to me!! I would be LOL (if it weren't so sad). me one example of an AA candidate being made to look more dark by his own people!

    Then pull you head out of your anus. Come to grips people. Let go of your inner Archie Bunker.

    Kill them with kindness. If that fails, just kill them.

    by JesusQ on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:02:34 PM PST

  •  That is a method (0+ / 0-)

    that has been done as long as photographs have been used in campaigns.

    It really doesn't say anything about society in general - darker colors are just reflexively more scary than lighter colors, some of it is learned, say walking in the city at night rather than in the day, and some is inbred.  (Baseball Hall of Famer Reggie Jackson said in a 1986 interview in Sports Illustrated that he had had darker skinned black men tell him that they could feel Jackson's initial wariness upon meeting them).

    It says a lot more about the politician who would use these techniques than it does about society.

    But, I also am alway very wary of the person who claims no prejudice.  That is normally a person in deep self delusionment.

  •  Call a spade a spade already. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Stop dancing around it. If Hillary Clinton has done something racist, then SAY SO.

    We all know what the facts are. I don't see why you keep the kid gloves on with Hillary Clinton after everything that has happened since South Carolina.

  •  I can see why you wouldn't tolerate this. (0+ / 0-)

    The saturation control can be abused, although this is a good color for you.


    Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

    by SpamNunn on Fri Mar 07, 2008 at 12:19:33 PM PST

  •  Self Reflection (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emal, emu

    As has been amply demonstrated here and elsewhere, there are innocent explanations aplenty for how "dark" or "wide" Obama appears in whatever image you happen to see him in. There are also some ugly explanations - really monstrous explanations. When you have that kind of evidence for both sides, and you pick just one - innocent or monstrous - and pursue it with absolute confidence, it says more about you than about "the truth."

  •  That second photo is NOT (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    a straight conversion to black and white.

    It is greyscale.  Enlarge it - you will see all these different shades of grey.

    Printers cannot use greyscale, as they don't carry that many different color inks!  They have to use a screened black and white conversion, to trick the eyes into seeing grey, when only black ink is used.

    Try doing an actual conversion to a real black and white halftone, and see what you get, as this comparison is not legitimate.

  •  You may want to look at... (0+ / 0-)  they go over this, and find this line of attack vs. Clinton inconclusive.  I tend to agree with FactCheck on this one.  There is nothing here to talk about.


  •  Kos (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emal, Patrick B

    You are pushing this racist stuff for political gain. has DEBUNKED your racist accusations about Clinton concerning the "darking" of Obama in her ad.

    Some Obama backers cry "racism." We find the accusation to be unsubstantiated.

  •  It's official (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emal, leftbird, oklib77, Patrick B, cmfrey

    The pro-Obama-at-any-cost crowd has officially lost its collective mind. Who ever thought that dailykos would be leading the way?

  •  The FactCheck examination... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, emal, oklib77, Patrick B, cmfrey

    ...of the Obama ad made two points:

    (1) The color of an image can, and in that case, apparently did, change when the image was converted from one format to another; and

    (2) The images in the Clinton ad - which were lighter than the YouTube clip of the Clinton ad - were UNIVERSALLY darker than other versions of that clip. It wasn't just Obama that was darker. Thus...


    The FactCheck analysis DID NOT SAY ANYTHING about the morality and ethics of darkening or lightening an image. It simply made the accurate point that the Clinton and WAS NOT THE SMOKING GUN OF RACIST INTENT that YOU had insisted it was.

    Face it Kos, you were wrong on this. You levied a very heavy charge - racism - at the Clinton campaign, despite the fact that you could not substantiate it, and FactCheck nailed you on it. If you had any balls at all, you would admit your mistake and apologize for it. Its what you demanded of Joe Klien. Time to put your money where your mouth is.

  •  So where's Moby Dick? (0+ / 0-)

    I see Ahab; where's the whale?

    Ha ha ;)

    I respect someone who stands by their guns.

  •  Took me a day or two to recover from the Ohio (0+ / 0-)

    primary BUT there is a whispering campaign here about the islamic sleeper cell thing.  The drudge picture, coincidence?  A couple of people told me they had a teacher, a retired nurse say this.  Both ladies were outraged and asked the offender if they were stupid.  Willfully, me thinks.  Soooooo, why do dems hate guns?  Cause all they know how to do with them is shoot themselves in the foot or hold circular firing squads!!  (yeah, I won't play Funny Bone anytime soon)  We can lose this thing if our  candidates rip each other to shreads before fall.  Could be why Crist wants to seat delegates after HIS legislature chose to break the rules.  Could be why Rush is trying to maintain relevancy by aiding Hillary in Texas-so a candidate he doesn't like can skate on in over our smoldering ashes.  The whispering campaign among my lefty buds is that hope and reconciliation just might win the day only to be yanked out from under us before our eyes like Bobby Kennedy.  Isn't 16 years of this crap enough?  Four more years may be all it takes to bring this country to its knees. (if that isn't where we're at already)

  •  I stopped visiting Daily Kos years ago (0+ / 0-)

    The only reason I am here now is because LGF linked to it.  The Kos diary confirms why I left this site years ago.  Completely not dealing in reality.

    From some of the comments here, it seems that the Daily Kos site has been losing many visitors over the years.  I guess many people couldn't stomach the conspiracy theories that make no sense except to the completely delusional.

  •  Are you serious! (0+ / 0-)

    The Republicans trump up charges, investigate Hillary Clinton ad nauseum for years, come up with nothing, and she and Bill get blamed for the Republican-created "scandals" of their administration.  Kos, for some untold reason, invents this nonsensical darkening of a photo accusation; people in this blog run away with it like it is certified, irrefutable fact; and Sen. Clinton gets the blame for yet another phantom.  I used to think this was a blog for intelligent, reasoned, political discourse, but it looks like  many of you have decided instead to be Republicans this year.  Good job so far. I guess this is what Internet wilding looks like.  Be careful as you dance around the bonfire lusting for blood.

  •  Make up your mind.. (0+ / 0-)

    First Senator Obama was not black he is too much black..Make up your mind..will yah??

    We are filled up with sob stories in the Press about Senator's relatives in Kenya, granny (who is really not the granny but the second wife of the grandfather) much did we hear about the Kansas grandparents..excepting they actually raised him...? Now would the Senator's campaign or the surrogates here at Kos World really tell us why his maternal side was not much talked about till the Kansas caucus?

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