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Abcnews.com has this story as their top news item right now on the web.  So far, I haven't seen it on any other site yet, but if it does break (and you can be sure it will if Obama is our nominee) I wonder how big the implications will be in the general election.

First, I have given up on Hillary, as it is becoming more apparent that she is unlikely to win the nomination without ruining any chance she would have of winning in the general election, so I write this with genuine concern for our ability to win the White House this year (assuming that Obama is the nominee).

The story is pretty damning when looked at through the eyes of the general populace.  Essentially, ABC obtained (they were for sale, presumably by the church) Rev. Wright's past sermons and has reported on several of the more vitriolic ones.  The context of these sermons appear to be a real liability for the Obama campaign, as he has not only embraced Rev. Wright, but more importantly (and the point will be made by the GOP) continued to attend the church where these types of messages were being dispersed (thus giving his implicit agreement with the general concepts).  I am starting to fear that we (with the help of the media) may have forced out John Edwards a tad too early during the primary and we may end up in a very tough fight for a White House that should be easy pickings.

Originally posted to SilverOz on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:58 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I have never noticed weird stuff from churches (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ogre, VA Breeze

    to be a problem in American politics.

    Ortiz/Ramírez '08

    by theran on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:59:41 AM PDT

  •  This Isn't A Very Good Smear (6+ / 0-)

    People are going to have to come up with more than this!

    "Obama's pastor said some controversial stuff?"

    Be serious.

    Hillary Clinton: leading supporter of the Culture of Corruption in Washington.

    by bincbom on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:59:48 AM PDT

  •  Obama's Pastor blames U.S. for 9/11 (14+ / 3-)

    Here's the story from ABC News:

    http://abcnews.go.com/...

    He also says blacks should not say "God Bless America", but "God Damn America"

    Why on earth has Obama been going to this church and hearing this garbage for the past 20 years?  If he is so against racism why does he attend a church that is so anti-america and anti-white.  At the least, Obama should ask his pastor Jeremiah Wright to resign from his campaign.

    •  Jeremiah is not a part of his campaign (6+ / 0-)

      He has even retired from the church.

      The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay

      by Robinswing on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:02:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  McCain's Pastor Sez it Was the Gays (13+ / 0-)

      who are to blame. What to believe?

      "Some may say words are change. But you and I know words are cheap."
      -- Hillary Rodham Clinton, 2008

      by GW Chimpzilla on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:06:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Attacking Obama's church out of context (10+ / 0-)

      is just another version of the attacks on his African American background. The guilt by association nonsense is ugly enough by itself. Taking a few words out of context from sermon to attack not only the pastor, but the parishioners is out of line.

      This is a back door attack on his racial background.

      "It's the planet, stupid."

      by FishOutofWater on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:06:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think HRC... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FishOutofWater

        and her hubby are writing off rank and file AA support for the immediate 1/2 century or so.

        "We're all working for the Pharaoh" - Richard Thompson

        by mayan on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:18:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, and they are going with the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mayan

          Obama is no different than Rev. Jesse Jackson stuff.  That Obama is the fringe candidate and Hillary is the safe moderate candidate.

          It is clear this is there plan.  And when you have smears coming from Democrats, talk radio, MSM and just people that don't know any better, it work, I am afraid.

      •  I question whether the comment is donut-worthy (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grlpatriot

        This is what people are saying, and the comment contained a link to prove it.  There was enough substance in the comment to allow a reasoned response rather than a hide.  Especially considering that this is something we need to talking about, because, racist or not, it is not going away.  Am I missing something here?

        The only frame change that matters: the corporate media = propaganda machine. Americans must find their news elsewhere.

        by geomoo on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:31:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I've been going (15+ / 0-)

      to a Catholic Church for 50 years and have listened to vitriol against Jews, Protestants, pro-lifers, war protesters, gays, divorced couples, couples "living in sin."  I tune it out and ponder on the fundamentals of the humanitarian ideal which is the foundation of Christianity -- oft forgotten.

      My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total. Barbara Jordan 1974

      by gchaucer2 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:08:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What do you know about Rev. Jeremiah Wright? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wader, brklyngrl

      You must provide more than these snippets, provide some context before anyone should pay attention to you. Rev. Wright is a Christian minister and as with all ministers you need to stay with the sermon until the end before coming to conclusions. I said the same about our local hysteria over Geraldine Ferraro and I say the same here.

      "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

      In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.

      "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.

      "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.

      As a Hillary voter, I must say, I agree with a lot of what the Rev. says. I would not be terribly concerned to hear this at my church - in fact, I can be both patriotic and WISH I heard more of this by my pastor.

      These snippets, taken out of context, will certainly earn you political points with the right audience but that's the same campaign denouement shit as calling Ferraro a racist.  Maybe you should listen to more of Rev. Wright's sermons on YouTube...

      BTW, I disagree that Hillary hasn't experienced those humiliations Rev. Wright lists...but your goal is more insidious and malignant toward Obama and I call foul.

      HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

      by kck on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:19:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry kck, but I disagree with you. This guy... (5+ / 0-)

        ...is appalling, whether taken in context or out.

        •  So, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ogre, kck

          facts don't matter?

          More than a single, fiery ex-pastor of Obama's church have condemned our past actions as relating - in part - to the terrorism thrown our way on 09/11/2001.  Often, the tone of such people is to note a wakeup call: we should rethink our actions which can cause resentment and significant retaliation around the world.  Something which BushCo has only magnified by 100, reportedly placing us into even greater numbers of crosshairs than before 09/11/2001.

          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

          by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:51:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fact is, the Pastor has damned the entire... (0+ / 0-)

            ...country -- you and I included.

            •  So you keep saying (0+ / 0-)

              with nothing to back it up of substance.

              He railed against our own aggressive actions in foreign lands which led to resentment against us.

              He railed against prejudice and racial bias still within our country and seemingly at the upper levels of the financial/political strata.

              And . . . all you can do is label this as damning our country, in some kind of faux patriotic-themed concern, I feel.

              "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

              by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:01:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What more "substance" do you need than... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                grlpatriot

                ...what you hear on that video and see in confirming reports on ABC?  What do you think "God Damn America" means?  Have a happy Sunday?  Jeez what we'll do and say to protect those we love.

                •  Er, that was a take on (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ecclesioleft

                  "God Bless America", which is a vapid excuse for patriotism, to begin with.

                  He was not damning the USA, but - in context with everything he said, rather than pulling a soundbite - steaming that we've been damning ourselves.

                  Geez, what we'll do for far-too-much concern.

                  There will be a thousand such quotes that anyone can take out of context for friends of Obama, friends of frieds of Obama, friends of neighbors of Obama, etc.

                  We just take one each time and knock them down cleanly.

                  As Obama has already done in the past for such reports, such as when he has said that he does not subscribe to all his ex-pastor's expressions or views.

                  Have any more concern?

                  "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

                  by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:08:04 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Not if you don't, and you clearly don't... (0+ / 0-)

                    ...so merrily you go off into the GE, thinking the Republicans fighting tooth and nail for the Republic will be as easy to handle as Democrats in a primary campaign.  Let's see you then issue your snotty "have any more concern" at Goopers, only to have them laugh in your face and say, let's go to the video.

                    •  I haven't heard anything constructive from you (0+ / 0-)

                      in this thread, so not sure of your point beyond concern.

                      I'm not blithely ignoring media smears simply because I refuse to cower in a corner.

                      I'm not being snotty - I'm challenging you to be constructive.

                      You haven't said a thing about the difficulty of going after Republicans compared to Democratic peers, btw.  It's been quite clearly noted that Obama's campaign does not want to go over the same lines that Clinton's campaign is being noted for, because it's attempting a unity push, not a divisive push.

                      Obama is already focusing on McCain, actually.  Top of Yahoo's homepage News headlines right now:

                      • Obama: McCain reversed position on Bush tax cuts

                      Making the story about his ex-pastor, who Obama has already begun distancing himself from in terms of representational views and is not a surrogate for his campaign, would see counterintuitive right now.  See if the shite takes wings, then keep knocking it down.

                      So, yeah, I'm just going merrily off to the GE.

                      "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

                      by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:34:43 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Oh, so you're all about "constructive" now, huh? (0+ / 0-)

                        Why just 10 minutes ago, you were more about calling out concern trolls among your Dem comrades. Talk about shifting on a dime.

                        Well, if you want to be constructive, and in the event of an Obama nomination, then why don't you dream up something really nifty for us all to use to respond to the right when they wave this video (and all the other ones the GOP has no doubt purchased). And it better be good, because as things stand now, I cannot imagine even attempting to defend Senator Obama's 20 year association with this preacher.  And please something better than: "oh Senator Obama may have listened to, been married by, and had his children blessed by this man across the past 20 years, but he never wanted to be associated with this Pastor's thinking."

                        •  I've only been about being constructive when I (0+ / 0-)

                          put down pure "concern" in your posts, which has been repeated without anything else to say.  And, easily answered, as well.

                          And, hey - I believe that I've referenced instances where Obama himself has already effectively kept himself away from this smear association with Wright.  And, noted he'll likely just keep doing so.

                          So, I have no purpose to then delve even further into the campaign tactics and offer ANOTHER answer in that vein, this one to your turn-around attempt at responding to even more expressions of "concern" that someone must come up with a hardened defense, right now, to the Republicans.  Since I already offered a general strategy above which reflects the consistent approach of the Obama campaign, is there anything more we need to offer in this blog?

                          You still haven't been constructive by getting beyond your own concern, btw.  Don't think I haven't noticed.  Not terribly practical or interesting.

                          And, your lack of understanding on why Obama has known and generally respected Wright's religious teachings beyond the soundbites you've chosen to interpret in a persistently uncontextual manner goes miles towards explaining why you're simply not getting the point.

                          If you haven't read Obama's book or even summaries on his history with Wright from 20 years ago, and how Wright's sometimes fiery, tough sermons outside the church have caused Obama to distance his campaign from Wright, then you're merely harping on one item, pouncing with massive concern and attempting to turn it into an issue that the Obama campaign surely would not want to play up on its own . . . the day after Clinton's climax with Ferraro took place.  Which is kind of a coincidence, you know?

                          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

                          by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:14:55 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                •  I listened to the sermon where he said that... (0+ / 0-)

                  And I have no problem with it. They're his words not mine or Obama's. They're the words of a preacher and we are all included. I'm not

                  Now, there's a big contrast with the heretic Hagee who rails against gays or Catholics.  

                  I'm not trying to spin or protect anyone. I think religious speech is protected. My pastor spoke our against abortion once and I am firmly pro-choice and as an adult I can see the difference between he and I, between dogma and opinion.

                  HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

                  by kck on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:21:11 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  When preachers rail vs. gays or Catholics... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    grlpatriot

                    ...most people look at them and think "bigot preacher".  But, when this particular religious type damns the whole country using the inflamatory GD America, I think most people will look at it and say, this is the chief spiritual advisor to the guy who wants to be President?  

                    •  Oh, no doubt about it, "people" will say that. (0+ / 0-)

                      Like "people" jumped at the chance to disparage Rep. Geraldine Ferraro and call her a racist, a race baiter, and far worse throughout the day here yesterday.

                      I just think that as a liberal progressive Democrat that IF preaching is to be fair game, and I don't believe it should be in most circumstances, it should be analyzed in context, biblically, and in its entirety. Give the man a fair hearing which can't be done in snippets and headlines.

                      As a man he's dismissive and ignorant of the real, tangible challenges Hillary has endured.

                      As a black man, he's telling his personal and valid perspective white people seldom hear. If you read what Pope John Paul has written about America, you'd be in the very same territory here. Right or wrong, religious judgments are to a higher standard, not equal to secular or social ones.

                      I think he's wrong about sexism and Hillary. So?  I'd rather take the moral high ground and engage the content -  now that its all the news - than condemn him. Condemning Obama for his minister's words is more than a slippery slope...it's not logical IMO.  

                      HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

                      by kck on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:52:22 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  So fucking what? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ogre, wader

              Is it now heresy to believe that your government is an atrocious imperial monster?

              We have garrisoned this planet with the most lethal military in history.

              We have used that very military toward the interests of our corporate masters for decades..  

              And now when someone points out that very fact,  he's suddenly a dangerous individual to be marginalized?  

              We have to discuss what is being done in our names.  

              We can't be a representative democracy and at the same time claim we have no control over the psychopaths that we put in charge.

              When we finally start to face the fact that our government is killing people all over the world for our selfish ends, only then  will we be in a position to end this nonsense.  

              To claim that you're insulted at the thought of this fundamental truth only betrays your own ignorance.

              Not. In. My. Fucking. Name!

              Why do I have to explain the difference between climate and weather every time a wingnut has to shovel his driveway?

              by joeyess on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:13:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Let it out. Oh, yes, let it ALL out baby... (0+ / 0-)

                ...and maybe you'll feel better having yet again expressed your unique and glorious righteous indignation and moral authority.  Afterward, maybe we can talk about the politics of defending to American voters a previously-unknown Chicago preacher who calls on "God" to damn them.  On second thought, I may just be too ignorant for you to talk to at all.  So, go take your giant intellect elsewhere, preferably down the hall to a 12-step program.

            •  So did Pope John Paul and the current Pope (0+ / 0-)

              Well, not damned, but criticized and held responsible for our role in world poverty and aggression.

              HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

              by kck on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:16:04 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  and we need leaders who will (0+ / 0-)

              step up and say these things.  Barack Obama included.

              If we choose, as a nation, to reject this rhetoric, then we are just as guilty as the policy makers that have engaged in the horrors.

              Why do I have to explain the difference between climate and weather every time a wingnut has to shovel his driveway?

              by joeyess on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:18:24 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You must be a wee but sympathetic... (0+ / 0-)

                ...to the fact that inflammatory language away from the pulpit, may not be the best way to reach people politically.

                HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

                by kck on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:23:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Not new at all. (0+ / 0-)

              The Book of the Prophet Amos begins with a short description of the prophet. This is followed by his words. He begins by condemning several nations, Israel's neighbors. Finally, and most importantly, he goes on to condemn Israel. This condemnation of Israel would come as a surprise to listeners in Amos' time, because the people of Israel were the chosen people. Amos goes on to list some of the sins of Israel. The underlying theme behind many of the sins was that the wealthy and powerful were alienating the poor and the weak. Amos lived during the long and prosperous reign of Jeroboam II. During this time many people became very wealthy. There were, however, some who remained poor. The wealthy exploited the weakness and vulnerability of the poor. "Because they sell the just man for silver, and the poor man for a pair of sandals." (Amos 2:6) Amos goes on to criticize the Israelites for their disingenuous religious services and festivals. He attacks their lack of sincerity and lack of gratefulness.

              "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

              by ogre on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:52:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Read Bin Laden's 90s fatwa (0+ / 0-)

      He clearly spells out his justification for attacking America as a response to our foreign policy in the Mid-East.

      Boneheads.

  •  This is big. (10+ / 0-)

    Obama's gonna have to deal with it and it's not going to be pretty.  It cannot be wished away.

  •  Um.... (9+ / 0-)

    Why is Obama in any way responsible for what his Pastor believes?

    And this...

    In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.

    "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.

    "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.

    Not sure I completely disagree. I don't see how it says that he said it led to attacks by al Qaeda, but it's certainly a few of the things that the US is responsible for.

    "2009" The end of an error

    by sheddhead on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:02:24 AM PDT

    •  And this is (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Si Ella Puede

      precisely the kind of discussion we need to have during the Fall.  If Hillary has a good case to make to the SDs, this is it.

    •  because he kept going to the church for 20 years (6+ / 0-)

      to hear this garbage.  That is at best implicitly condoning the crap Wright spewed.  He is going to get hammered for this in the fall and it will cause many voters (not necessarily dem voters) to think twice.

      •  stop the fake outrage (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pd, kitebro, wader

        Geraldine Ferarro comments were ok by Hillary Clinton camp, but now we have fake outrage on Obama. The pastor has nothing to do with Obama yet see how easy Clinton Supporters are to attack Obama on anything they can?

        When we are together it isn't me who matters, but the other person

        by AHiddenSaint on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:12:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You might as well (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jennybravo, sheddhead, brklyngrl

        condemn millions of other Americans who go to church and listen to variations of garbage.  Me being among the many.

        My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total. Barbara Jordan 1974

        by gchaucer2 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:14:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here's the important GENERAL ELECTION differnce (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          roseeriter, jeff in nyc

          first, those millions of Americans are not running for president.  More importantly though, the crap here is going to be labeled as anti-American and that is a problem.  Americans typically do not like to hear themselves badmouthed.

          •  And the crap spewed (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            N in Seattle, brklyngrl

            by Hagee is not going to be an issue at all for McCain, I assume.

            My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total. Barbara Jordan 1974

            by gchaucer2 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:20:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  not really comparable (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              miriam

              It is going to be an issue for McCain, obviously, but Hagee is not McCain's pastor, McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years, McCain did not donate $20,000 to Hagee's church last year, and Hagee's hate speech and borderline psychotic worldview is more acceptable to the American masses than Wright's "anti-American" speech (I don't think anti-American is the proper term for Wright, but it's the adjective that will be applied to Wright by just about everybody).

              I think this is going to be a problem for Obama, a serious problem. I've changed my mind on this, yesterday I thought it was no big deal, but that was before I'd seen the latest videos and heard some of the spin that's already being put on it by MSM.

      •  you are not stable. nt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ebbinflo

        "2009" The end of an error

        by sheddhead on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:15:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Because he sat in church listening to this... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      miriam, roseeriter, Si Ella Puede

      ...for 20 years.  A leader who would do that has some responsibility for what he allows to pass through his ears.

      •  You suggest... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bawbie, VA Breeze, paintitblue

        that for 20 years, this guy has given the same sermon, about 9/11 - even before it happened?

        Really?  You do?

        Stop it.  The lack of logic from the Hillary apologists is making my head explode.

        "2009" The end of an error

        by sheddhead on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:44:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course not (the same sermon), but how likely.. (0+ / 0-)

          ...is it that these were his ONLY intemperate, no outrageous, observations of America and its citizens?  I'm sure we'll hear more of them, too, and Senator Obama is going to have to explain how it was he listened to these things and did not stand up and say "enough of this wicked talk!"

          •  Ever been to church & heard sermons? (0+ / 0-)

            Just askin'...

            I'm betting mostly the talk was about this radical guy name Jesus.  

            Just a guess.

            But you keep believing what you want to, without any facts to support it.

            "2009" The end of an error

            by sheddhead on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:15:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Did you know that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Si Ella Puede

      Wright is currently sitting on Obama's African American Leadership Committee within the campaign?  Then there is the fact that he attended this church for 20 years.  

      I am a unitarian universalist and we have some similarities with the UCC.  I can tell you that this is not a typical UCC preacher- if it is the same UCC that ran the 'we welcome all people, even gays' commercials a while back.

      Obama needs to kick this in the butt- like yesterday.  How, I have no idea.

      Give me a f'ing banana - Eddie Izzard

      by linc on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:32:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Did you know McCain embraces a pastor who (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ogre

        wants to kill all the Jewish people and gay people? Plus thinks 9/11 was the gay peoples fault? Plus said God punished a US state because of gay people that is why we had katrina? What no outrage there? HOW DARE YOU!

        When we are together it isn't me who matters, but the other person

        by AHiddenSaint on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:39:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  but Hagee is not McCain's pastor (0+ / 0-)

          It is going to be an issue for McCain, obviously, but Hagee is not McCain's pastor, McCain has not attended Hagee's church for 20 years, McCain did not donate $20,000 to Hagee's church last year, McCain has not been taking his young children to listen to Hagee's sermons all their lives, and Hagee's hate speech and borderline psychotic worldview is more acceptable to the American masses than Wright's "anti-American" speech (I don't think anti-American is the proper term for Wright, but it's the adjective that will be applied to Wright by just about everybody).

          I think this is going to be a problem for Obama, a serious problem. I've changed my mind on this, yesterday I thought it was no big deal, but that was before I'd seen the latest videos and heard some of the spin that's already being put on it by MSM.

      •  As another UU... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ballybough, paintitblue

        I'll just remind you that one thing we share with the UCC is a dedication to the idea of two key freedoms; freedom of the pulpit and freedom of the pew.  Whoever is preaching is free to say what they truly believe.  And those in the pews are free to listen and consider and reject, in part or in whole.

        Being in church with someone who preaches something you find over the top or hyperbolic, or wrong, even... doesn't mean you pack up and leave.

        What you're reading is a careful selection of Wright's words, by the media, for the purpose of... what?

        The way he said things is the issue.  Not what was said.

        Is there a profoundly shameful history that Americans and America have in regards to slavery, segregation, lynching, discrimination?  Damned straight. We're not over it, and haven't even stopped adding to it.

        Did US actions bring 9/11 on us?  That's a simplistic question.  It's certainly true that "they" (brown people, Arabs, Muslims) don't hate us for our freedoms--those freedoms are, in fact, what they love and admire, and many of them have immigrated here for.  "They" are actually a small minority of a small minority--and among the reasons that THEY list for their actions against America are American support for the ongoing abuse of the Palestinian people, the US overthrow of governments that local populations supported, and so on.  American diplomatic and military actions have indeed enraged and offended, over and over.  Did that justify 9/11?  No.  But that's not what Wright said.

        But American arrogance set things up for zealots.  We have assholes who've called for nuking Mecca.  

        The American ideal is one that black Americans embrace and love.  The history... is another story. We white folk tend to imagine that the ideal is closer to history, and yet not be very aware of the actual history.  

        And for the record, Wright retired at least a month ago.

        "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

        by ogre on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:28:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  But Shedd (0+ / 0-)

      You could say the same thing:

      "Why is Obama in any way responsible for what his Pastor believes?

      Why is Hillary in any way responsible for what Ferraro believes?

      I believe they are BOTH wrong on this issue.

      A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The USA for an amount of "up to and including my life." - unknown

      by AJsMom on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:44:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Whether one agrees or not, the comment is (0+ / 0-)

      too heavy an anchor for Obama. This is the first time I've seen something that can absolutely sink Obama. I'm sad he thinks so highly of a man who most Americans would consider a dangerous radical.

    •  He's responsible when (0+ / 0-)

      he contributes $20,000 to this church as he did last year...see his tax returns.

      Most scientists believe human brains aren't fully formed until the early 20s. -AMA

      by miriam on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:47:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Buyer's remose already? Good for you (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    grlpatriot
  •  Your "concern" is noted. (8+ / 0-)

    At least put up the money quote;

    "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.

    "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.

    To me, that just sounds like a man of god telling it like it is.  Then again, I'm from a place where we appreciate that kind of thing.

    My Blog: The place I ramble when I'm not rambling here.

    by Capt America on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:02:49 AM PDT

  •  The same ABC that blames 911 on Clinton? (5+ / 0-)

    trying to reach for rationality from ABC is such a losing strategy

    i agree that ABC is likely to make a lot of noise about the Democratic nominees, no matter who they are.

  •  ABC last Sunday night on its (7+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lost, kitebro, wader, Lashe, gchaucer2, madgranny, oak510

    World News (I think that is what it called) spent a good 15 minutes giving the wrong delegate totals, the wrong pop vote, and then ghettoized Obama by pointing out that his "favorite tv character" is a gay, black thug on THE WIRE.

    Is ABC also asking why Catholics still listen to the Pope despite the pure garbage about AIDS, HIV, and the role of women in society and the church?

    No, it's not.

    I'll put my tin foil hat on and say that our corporate owners are nervous that people are excited about the process again.  Plus the candidate they failed to buy might win.  

    In their literature their ideologues call it, excitement and participation in the process, "an excess of democracy."  

    The ruling class has been dividing whites and blacks for 400 years--it is nothing new.

    by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:03:48 AM PDT

    •  Wait a minute (0+ / 0-)

      Did ABC just say that Obama's favorite character is Omar, or did they use the language you're using right there?  I don't see how it's ghettoizing any one, The Wire is a critics' darling (if not a widely-viewed show, sadly enough) and it's just true information that Obama's said that about his favorite character.  Omar is great but personally I think the Stringer-Avon drama was the best part of the whole series.. and there are just too many brilliant characters for me to pick a favorite.  (Major crimes? sheeeeeeeiiiit.)

      Competent leadership, for a change! | Hillary '08

      by daria g on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:07:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He is part of his campaign (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    miriam, gaf, roseeriter, Lashe, AJsMom, bugscuffle

    His pastor is part of his campaign.  Politico had a story about it this morning.  He serves on one of Obama's campaign committees.  

  •  Isn't it funny (11+ / 0-)

    That you are allowed to attack Obama's pastor, but when the right wing goes out with church groups screaming abortion and gays are not people it is ok. Nothing ever happens to them, but because Obama is a dem it is suddenly use religion against him.

    When we are together it isn't me who matters, but the other person

    by AHiddenSaint on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:04:04 AM PDT

    •  This man is not only anti-white (0+ / 0-)

      he's also anti-American.  There is absolutely no way you can spin this as helpful or even as neutral to Obama.  For most American voters this is hate speech. If this is the religious atmosphere that Obama prefers, it says a great deal about his attitude toward the majority of Americans.  

      Most scientists believe human brains aren't fully formed until the early 20s. -AMA

      by miriam on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:54:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  lol (0+ / 0-)

    the pastor should follow Geraldine's line of thinking. He is telling the truth and they are attacking him because he is black. he should resign so they can't use him to attack Obama and he can continue to speak his mind...I think everyone who resigns from campaign should now all follow Geraldine's example.

  •  Obama's EX-Pastor (6+ / 0-)

    not his current one.

    And, Obama already began the process of distancing himself from Wright's more controversial sayings about one year ago.  Then, did so with regards to his church and a Farrakan award.

    Dredging this stuff up from a non-surrogate, non-current-pastor seems kind of a desperate means to "balance" the Clinton campaign's poor job of letting an official surrogate blow dog whistles, repeatedly and unapolegetically.

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:04:42 AM PDT

    •  "Senator Obama, why are you (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      miriam, gaf, Larry Bailey, roseeriter

      distancing yourself from a pastor whose church you attended for 20 years?"

      •  Bugscuffle, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wader, brklyngrl

        have you stopped beating your Reply to This button?

        The ruling class has been dividing whites and blacks for 400 years--it is nothing new.

        by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:07:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wader, turnover, madgranny
        1. "Aw, man. As my pastor might say, 'God damn you, Hillary!'" (Since she seems determined to make this year's nomination useless, hey, it's a fun thought.)
        1. If candidates now must answer not only for their own words and deeds but those of their ministers, then excuse me a few minutes while I mourn for what now surely is the death of my country.

        Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

        by bwintx on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:10:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Because people could fabricate a relationship (0+ / 0-)

        between them that somehow imagines Wright as being an Obama surrogate.  Even though he's Obama's ex-Pastor and no longer heading Obama's church, people will dig and throw shite, hoping it sticks.  But, it hasn't.

        The Obama campaign wanted to distance the church from media attacks due to the campaign's increased visibility, they mentioned.

        It's been well-reported for many months, now.

        And, it didn't cause a major firestorm when first reported, really.  Just a blip.

        Since then, not even that much.

        So, again, this is a feeble attempt to feed the TradMed with some sort of counterbalancing for the Clinton campaign's persistent dog-whistling and poor handling of the Ferraro (i.e., official surrogate) affair.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:20:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  it's a new low everyday from Hillary Supporters (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kitebro, wader, bwintx, madgranny

      Like I said why is it that Obama is being charged with this when right-wing NOTHING EVER HAPPENS to their church leaders like Dobson and the one that McCain has that wants to kill the jewish people.

      When we are together it isn't me who matters, but the other person

      by AHiddenSaint on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:07:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  IOKIYAR n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        paintitblue

        Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

        by bwintx on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:11:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You made the point (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AJsMom

        nothing happens to the right wing for their religious nuts, but it does happen to us (see John Kerry, war hero for example #1).  The other point is this guy is essentially bad mouthing the USA, which tends to go over poorly with your average voter.

        •  nothing is there but fake outrage (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VA Breeze

          Obama is his own person. Why do you not condem Haggard or whatever the name of the person McCain just said was a great Pastor? The one that wants to kill Jews and kill Gays right out plus thinks that bombing Iran will bring the second coming of Christ? Oh right I forgot this was only a hit job for you didn't want to take any of that into account you just wanted to create fake outrage. Were you ok with Geraldine Ferarro comments? She a  racists you know.

          When we are together it isn't me who matters, but the other person

          by AHiddenSaint on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:18:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's not fake outrage (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Catte Nappe, jeff in nyc, Lashe, AJsMom

            it's going to be a general election issue whether we like it or not, that is a fact.  This is a great entree that was just served up to the GOP.  Ferarro's comments were stupid, but also irrelevant since Obama has essentially wrapped this up and I am discussing the general election here.  Put your Clinton hatred away (she isn't going to be the nominee) and think about winning in November for a change.

            •  I'm going to let Josh Marshall answer this (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kanuk, jeff in nyc, paintitblue

              from TPM:

              It is insufficient to say that Republicans will do this in the fall so there's nothing to be lost in hearing it now from Democrats. Because by doing this now, as a Democratic campaign, they are mainstreaming the message. If Obama is the nominee, when this emerges again, no doubt in a harsher, more rancid incarnation, it will come pre-approved by dint of a Democratic campaign's imprimatur.

              hillary's whole fucking campaign has boiled down to pulling out the attacks the Republicans will use.  To try to get Democrats to vote for her.

              SHE NEEDS TO STOP ACTING LIKE A REPUBLICAN TODAY!!

          •  Ahiddensaint... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jeff in nyc

            this is big. Wright should be kicked off Obama's advisory committee.

            What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

            by slinkerwink on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:22:01 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Guess what? (0+ / 0-)

            I can simultaneously condemn Hagee and his idiotic ideas and statements and also be concerned about the implications that Obama's former pastor has some idiotic ideas and made statements accordingly.

            It would suit me fine if McCain is smeared from head to toe with Hagee's shit. I don't want Obama getting smeared from head to toe with Wright's.

            "Sir, you are giving a reason for it; but that will not make it right." Samuel Johnson

            by Catte Nappe on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:05:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  He's bad-mouthing our policies (0+ / 0-)

          and prejudiced people in power, not the USA.

          Unless you'd like us to use Bush-speak, which has an entirely different mode of translating the english language.

          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

          by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:23:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  right wing pastors blames gays all the time (0+ / 0-)

            but I guess you do not want to call out right-wing Pastors who think gay people should be killed?

            When we are together it isn't me who matters, but the other person

            by AHiddenSaint on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:24:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What you just said (0+ / 0-)

              does not relate to my post.

              And has no reflection with my outrage against true hate-speech.  Against gay people, people of colour, women, liberals, Democrats, etc.

              "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

              by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:26:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  why aren't you outraged about Hagee and McCain? (0+ / 0-)

                Talk about selective outrage.

                When we are together it isn't me who matters, but the other person

                by AHiddenSaint on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:31:04 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Step back and read this thread (0+ / 0-)

                  I am not outraged at anyone in this thread.

                  Certainly, I am outraged at people like Hagee, McCain, Ferraro, etc. beyond this thread, but that has nothing to do with my post or point.

                  I'm an Obama supporter and was only responding to SilverOz's statement that:

                  . . . this guy is essentially bad mouthing the USA

                  As I mentioned, Wright did not appear to be "attacking the USA", and I explained why in my post.  Which was a direct reply to SilverOz.

                  I think that your aim was off before pulling the trigger on my post above.

                  "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

                  by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:40:16 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  I'm confused (2+ / 0-)

        The diarist writes about some "story" ABC is flogging involving some allegedly "out there" comments by Obama's (former) pastor.

        Diarist is then called a Hillary supporter in several replies, apparently because he's raising questions about this "news" story that's getting play in the corporate media - "is this going to become a problem" type stuff.

        Mind you, I don't know the diarist's history in this respect as I've been trying to avoid the candidate diaries for the most part.
         
        I'm just seeing so many people get badmouthed, called a concern troll, or HRed whenever they ask a question about Obama, particularly of the type "what is in his past that the Republicans might go after?"

        Why the hell is it wrong to ask those questions? Obama seems like a truly decent guy, but c'mon, he's human. We've all done things we're ashamed of or embarrassed about. (That dumb picture with your friends in HS/college - don't deny it, everybody's got one.)

        We've all done things that Karl Rove could twist into something that seems absolutely evil. (He could make feeding the neighbor's dog look like a crime.)

        Why do so many people act like it's a horrible thing to be prepared before they start slinging the shit?

         
        NOTE: I was an Edwards supporter. I will support the Democratic nominee. I have no real preference between Obama and Clinton. I am effectively neutral. They both have positives and negatives. They both have the intellect and determination to do the job. Unfortunately neither of them have spent much time at ALL on the issues Edwards campaigned on, which happen to be the issues that matter to me. However, either one of them is a million times better than McCain.


        Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
        Harry S Truman

        by Lashe on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:32:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Too bad the MSM hasn't noticed (0+ / 0-)
      •  They noticed last year, (0+ / 0-)

        actually.

        This is just ABC right now, yes?  If others pick it up, we'll see what kind of legs it really has.

        Still, it's a rather desperate cover for Clinton's significant race-related screwups of the past week.

        It's obvious the timing of these reports is not merely coincidental in following from the day after Clinton's partial apology for her campaign's dog-whistling.

        When right-wing rags push this stuff and rightist TradMed sources of news pick up on it, the Obama campaign has come out and squelched it.  Each time.  They've been prepared for handling the "colourful" ex-pastor and are likely prepared for other eventual smears, too.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:16:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  they will notice wright (0+ / 0-)

        What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

        by slinkerwink on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:18:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Here are some quotes from the Rev. Wright (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ogre, kitebro, wader, Tanya, futurebird

    which I agree with.

    "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

    "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.

    "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.

    How does this hurt Obama again?

  •  This is ridiculous... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bwintx, Dartagnan, madgranny, futurebird

    Obama has belonged to this church for a number of years.  Just because his pastor has these views doesn't mean Obama does.  

    Second, ABC took snips of sermons that would make it seem as though Wright preaches about issues of social consciousness all the time.  We're getting a very one-sided viewpoint of one pastor's point of view.  Isn't that what the media does?  Spin?

    Third, I want to reiterate that church is a very personal thing.  Pastors say things all the time that their congregants don't believe.  And Obama has gone on record to say that he doesn't believe everything his pastor says.  Why is it that a pastor's personal beliefs have to become Obama's?  Because that is just flat out wrong!

    Obama's pastor is not an advisor to Obama in this campaign.  I doubt he has ever sought his advice on any issues in this campaign.  So why should it be an issue?  It's the same with McCain.  John Hagee has endorsed him, and Hagee has said made some vitriolic statements about Catholics, but McCain isn't getting the same scrutiny as Obama here.  Why not?

    This should be a non-issue, but because people don't think, it probably will become one.  How unfortunate.

    •  see that is why it is ok for the clinton camp to (0+ / 0-)

      be outraged, but how many were here telling us yesterday and defending Geraldine Ferarro comments.

      When we are together it isn't me who matters, but the other person

      by AHiddenSaint on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:10:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What does this have to do with anything? (0+ / 0-)

        Ferraro was specifically talking about Obama's race, how he wouldn't be where he is if he weren't Black.  Obama's pastor wasn't talking about the Democratic nomination at all.  The pastor's statements were religiously/socially oriented.  Ferraro's statements were personally against Obama.

      •  Ferraro (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KWiz

        is a Clinton surrogate.

        Wright is not.  He wasn't trotted out to speak on Obama's behalf.

        Ferraro made -- and repeated and defended blatantly racist remarks.  

        This is similar HOW?

        "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

        by ogre on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:33:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Obama only needs (0+ / 0-)

    to counter that nonsense with this wingnut.

    Why do I have to explain the difference between climate and weather every time a wingnut has to shovel his driveway?

    by joeyess on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:07:40 AM PDT

  •  He's not just his pastor (3+ / 2-)
    Recommended by:
    gaf, roseeriter, grlpatriot
    Hidden by:
    ogre, dmsdbo

    Jeremiah Wright is not just Obama's pastor.  He was his spiritual mentor for the past 20 years. He married obama and michelle, Obama's book was inspired by this man, by all indications Obama converted to Christianity because of Jeremiah Wright.  What exactly attracted Obama to Jeremiah wright?  Was it his hate speech?

  •  I must be too radical (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ogre

    I must be too radical I think Obama's pastor has a few points. I don't agree with the way he makes them, so much.  People who are scared off by this stuff weren't going to vote for Obama anyway.

    •   I disagree (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe, grlpatriot

      People who are scared off by this stuff weren't going to vote for Obama anyway.

      There are probably lots of Independents who would disagree with what this guy is saying.
      And they are voters who will consider Obama.

      Obama has said many times how much this pastor means to him.
      Hearing the "God Damn America" comment is not something that most Americans agree with.

      Regardless of the sentiment on this site, out here in flyover country, this is looked at as racist, hate speech. "The government gives them the drugs", what? Come on, that is bs.

      Most people understand the difference between the what happened during our war with Japan and what happened on 9/11.

      People my mom's age remember very well and they will be livid at this apparent analogy between these two events.
      And they VOTE!

      A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The USA for an amount of "up to and including my life." - unknown

      by AJsMom on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:36:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  too radical (0+ / 0-)

      You might be. I think you would be surprised by people who voted for Obama, but if they had heard this before the primaries, would not have voted for him. This seriously weakens Obama in the general election.

  •  I believe that this Pastor is on a council of (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    roseeriter

    Obamas. I would hope that his resignation would be asked for and we can simply move on.

    Its the delegates that count

    by Morgan Sandlin on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:08:20 AM PDT

  •  Pope John Paul II (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    turnover, Tanya, geejay, madgranny, VA Breeze

    criticized the U.S. invasion of Iraq the said the death penalty is immoral.

    I don't hear any Catholic Republicans distancing themselves from their church leader.

    I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - Major General Smedley D. Butler, USMC

    by Marinesquire on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:08:42 AM PDT

  •  Pat Robertson will endorse John McCain. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    madgranny, brklyngrl, futurebird

    I'd all but guarantee it. And he said the same sort of thing. Of course, Robertson (and, of course, now-dead Falwell) blamed it on the gays, the abortionists, the ACLU, etc.

    What's the difference?

    I'm sorry I overreacted. Really.

    by turnover on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:09:53 AM PDT

  •  THERE IS ONLY ONE SOLUTION (8+ / 0-)

    Hagee-Wright deathmatch in a steelcage.

  •  We can't wish this one away.... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    roseeriter, Catte Nappe, Lashe, AJsMom

    nor can we brush it off.  The story is crap, but remember who we are dealing with.  This fits neatly into the storyline the corporate media, Hillary Clinton and the Republicans have been selling.

    The article also states:

    In a campaign appearance earlier this month, Sen. Obama said, "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." He said Rev. Wright "is like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with," telling a Jewish group that everyone has someone like that in their family.

    Obama will have to do better than that.  Couldn't Hillary have said the same thing about Ferraro i.e. she's just a crazy old aunt.

    This shit is going to hit the fan and we will have to deal with it.

    Any party that would lie to start a war would also steal an election.

    by landrew on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:10:58 AM PDT

  •  Rev. Wright is his former pastor (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bawbie, LordMike, Lashe

    not his current, no.1, and no.2  this is being covered on TPM which says

    Last week, Obama, who has denounced various of Wright's statements, told a Jewish audience, Wright "is like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with."

    "Homo sapiens is the only species on the planet that will follow ... an unstable leader." Cesar Millan

    by middleagedhousewife on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:11:26 AM PDT

  •  What a surprise!!! (0+ / 0-)

    A church leader that is full of shit!!!  OMG, what's next?  Are we going to find out that Christianity engages in the strange cult-like practice of eating Christ's body and drinking his blood?

    What will the children think?

    Why do I have to explain the difference between climate and weather every time a wingnut has to shovel his driveway?

    by joeyess on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:12:25 AM PDT

  •  Obama's Pastor huh? (0+ / 0-)

    Is he running for Prez now?

    How long till there are commercials questioning whether or not this pastor has "crossed the threshhold" of Heaven or answered a 3am phone call from "god." Or, maybe Gerry will say he's just lucky to be who he is 'cuz he's a black preacher.

  •  My pastor says (7+ / 0-)

    My pastor says a lot of stuff I don't agree with. (And with 52+ sermons a year there are bound to be plenty of differences with some of them.)

    What sermons did George Bush hear? John McCain?
    This seems like more of the hit campaign...

  •  guy should be kicked off the advisory committee (8+ / 0-)

    What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

    by slinkerwink on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:13:47 AM PDT

  •  Not a "Big ?", a big problem. (3+ / 5-)

    This guy is the David Duke of Blacks.

  •  The gall of Kossacks (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    miriam, gaf, Larry Bailey, MemphisD

    You Kossacks will defend this Jeremiah Wright guy, yet you'll bash Geraldine Ferraro as a racist.  LOL

  •  This is good. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Capt America

    The pastor needs to make more controversial statements.
    At least now no one will be confused about Obamas religion.

    •  Excellent point. (0+ / 0-)

      If they're up in arms about what his pastor is saying, they can't be calling him Muslim at the same time.

      My Blog: The place I ramble when I'm not rambling here.

      by Capt America on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:27:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sure they can (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lashe

        We invaded Iraq because

        Saddam was behind 9/11 or
        They had WMDs or
        They were supporting Al-Qaeda or
        For humanitarian reasons or
        To protect the flow of oil

        Take your pick! That's what the wingnuts do -- they throw out everything and hope that something sticks to everyone.

        And while here you might think the two things are contradictory, you're forgetting the ultimate smear: he's a Palestinian Candidate who's only pretending to be Christian (but while he's at it, he might as well join an anti-American church).

        "I voted for Bush in 2000," said Kutcher. "Boy, did I get punk'd."

        by samlang on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:36:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Eh, Republicans are good at having it both ways (0+ / 0-)

      It wouldn't surprise me to see another of those damned viral emails going around, this one claiming that Obama is a Muslim AND his pastor says terrible, horrible things.

      Logic seems to have no place in the Republican world.

      And remember, IOKIYAR.


      Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
      Harry S Truman

      by Lashe on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:37:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Jesus Christ (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theran, brklyngrl, chicago DEM, latinadem

    I'm Catholic and I'm glad I'll never run for office because I'd hate to have to answer for all of the horrible shit the Catholic church has done.

  •  Was Obama in the church pew? (4+ / 2-)
    Recommended by:
    miriam, gaf, Larry Bailey, grlpatriot
    Hidden by:
    ogre, bsmcneil

    Was Obama in the church pew clapping when Wright spewed this crap?  How can you sit there and listen to this garbage?  I'm sorry, but this should disqualify Obama from consideration to the presidency.  No president should enjoy hearing America-bashing every week for 20 years.  This is disgusting.

  •  Pastor Wright's jeremiads (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ogre, Capt America, Myrrhis

    Preachers calling a nation to task for what they see as her sins?

    What's next?!

    "What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is." --Dan Quayle

    by jakester on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:17:22 AM PDT

  •  Does ABC have an agenda? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, VA Breeze, futurebird

    I can't help but wonder. You've got this story today, and it follows this headline from yesterday: "Obama Leads, But Is Time on Clinton's Side?"

    That was their lead political headline on the morning after a dominant victory for Obama in Mississippi. Frankly, FauxNews could have hardly done better. The story itself was tripe, as well, dealing with speculation from a strategist friendly to the Clinton camp.

    It was a very strange analysis choice in light of two primary victories that have put Hillary back on the defensive.

    The Republican Party: Reinventing government, the same way they reinvented New Orleans

    by QuestionableSanity on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:18:21 AM PDT

    •  old news (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      QuestionableSanity

      And none of this stuff about his church is NEW. It's been out in the open since day one... why report on it now? Hmmmm?

      Could we get a re-hash of the Lewinsky thing in the papers about now? A re-cap of white water? Why are they brining up this old news again?

    •  Their agenda (0+ / 0-)

      They must keep the horse-race see-saw going. Today he's up, tomorrow he's down; build him up again and find something negative about her; she's making a comeback, he didn't "win" that state; she's got a supporter who said racist things, he's got a pastor who says racist things; and on and on and on. Up and down. As long as the ratings stay up.

      "Sir, you are giving a reason for it; but that will not make it right." Samuel Johnson

      by Catte Nappe on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:57:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •   (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vivadissent

    Why do I have to explain the difference between climate and weather every time a wingnut has to shovel his driveway?

    by joeyess on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:18:35 AM PDT

  •  Got to hate that truth telling (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jazzyjay

    Aren't there a couple books of the Bible - that all three faiths pay attention to - that contain the observations, concerns and diatribes of prophets?  Isn't that the job of serious clergy - to tell the truth as they see it and make observations that are uncomfortable?

    We haven been one of the most powerful countries in the world for more than 100 years and one of the wealthiest countries in the world for more than 200 years.  In that time a lot has been done in our name, whether good or bad in our eyes now, but it is what has led us to where we are.  As Samantha Power has said it would be helpful to be empirical in what has hapepened, in what we have done and in what the consequences of our actions have been.  Only then can we actually effectively protect ourselves and ensure our children's futures.

    Didn't we just hit a record of the number of people are in jail in this country?  And how many of them are African American?  And why are they in jail again?  And are caucasians likely to go to jail for the same crimes?  Why do we warehouse so many people and inflict barabaric treatment on them? Just one area which any decent clergyman should explore to understand who we are and what we need to do to lead more morally informed lives.  

  •  This pastor is a problem (7+ / 0-)

    I'm a African American, an Obama supporter, and my grandfather was a baptist pastor. I think this guy is very offensive the same way the late Falwell and Pat Robertson and Louis Farrakhan.

    The problem is their is nothing Obama can do but hope this passes over. How can you disavow yourself from your religion.

    •  Here's my question; (0+ / 0-)

      Why do the GOoPers get to have their cake and eat it too, when it comes to Falwell, Hagee, Robertson, Parsley, and every other whackadoo that crawls up out of the sewer of religious bigotry?

      Why do I have to explain the difference between climate and weather every time a wingnut has to shovel his driveway?

      by joeyess on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:23:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama response (0+ / 0-)

    My comment first:  Personally, I don't agree with the pastor's sentiments.  Then again, growing up, I remember the pastor of my church saying things with which I VERY much disagreed.  

    Here is Obama's response from http://rawstory.com/...

    But Obama has described the preacher as "like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with."

    Hope I did that according to DKos rules...new and all.

    "The people of this country, not special interest big money, should be the source of all political power." - Wellstone

    by diddosMN on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:22:20 AM PDT

    •  Meant to say (0+ / 0-)

      I don't always agree with all my pastor's sentiments.  Sometimes I completely disagree.

      "The people of this country, not special interest big money, should be the source of all political power." - Wellstone

      by diddosMN on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:24:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I know everyone here want's to dismiss this... (7+ / 0-)

    ...as no big deal, but it IS a big deal, if for no other reason than the media smearing Obama as the "black candidate"....  Which is exactly what the Hillary team wants to do...

    They are painting Obama as being influenced by a "scary black" church that will "come and take your suburban protected life away" or something like that...

    This is going to work, I'm afraid, very well... it cuts  right into the deepest fears of white people... not much different than Osama Bin Laden... It makes Obama look "foreign" and "unamerican" and "scary".

    It's a deliberate smear attempt, and I'm afraid this one will stick 'cos Americans are so easily cowered into fear of the different or unknown.

    Ignore this at your peril.  This isn't concern trolling, this is legitimate concern.  My heart sunk when I saw this story, and I'm devastated and worried as hell.

    We are 6 weeks to PA and it's already sunk as low as this.  It's going to sink much lower...  If he can get out of this mess, then Obama has certainly been vetted!  But, this is one smear, I think, that is going to scare the crap out of many voters and is going to stick.

    •  Check the comments (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ebbinflo, brklyngrl, mnicholson0220

      Many people think the guy should be fired.  

    •  chill out (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tbreds, brklyngrl

      They did the same to Hillary and will do so again....with the pastors of her previous churches.
      Just roll with the punches.

      Vote for who you like, and don't worry about who is smear-proof.  They'd smear Jesus himself (unmarried guy wandering around, challenging authority, not owning property, consorting with drunkards, sinners, and prostitutes).

      •  ................ dressing like a DFH. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LordMike

        Why do I have to explain the difference between climate and weather every time a wingnut has to shovel his driveway?

        by joeyess on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:32:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's different.... (0+ / 0-)

        ...the media didn't have Hillary's pastors dressed up in African garb, deliberately inflaming racist fears in many voters (even enlightened ones who fight off those fears)... The story is quite a piece of work, but designed to be very effective.  It's no different than the other "fear of brown people" exploitation attempts that the media has attempted over the years.

      •  What was said about the pastors of HRC's church? (0+ / 0-)

        Most scientists believe human brains aren't fully formed until the early 20s. -AMA

        by miriam on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:08:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  the point many people are making is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike, brklyngrl

      you don't disavow your faith cause a preacher in it says something you don't agree with. That's how he needs to phrase it. He is not about to disavow his Christian faith because his preacher made some social commentary that he doesn't agree with. From there he has a great opening to talk about faith, how it operates in his life, and through his faith he finds strength and resolve to correct poverty, bring people together, defend the nation, etc. You get the point.

      For the republicans to go after his faith is going to put them in a difficult spot. Certainly the radio talk shows can say whatever they way, they can even make up stuff with complete impunity. But if he went to the most uncontroversial, mainstream, they would still talk trash about him. As the joke goes, if he walked on water, they would say he can't swim.

      Now if you want to argue that his church is going to be cast as a crazy "black" church (practically a cult, dont ya know) then I think such arguments get the treatment all racially exploitive arguments get, which is contemptuous dismissal.

      "I ain't so afraid of losing something that I ain't gonna try to have it." Zoe (Firefly)

      by geejay on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:46:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think this is needless (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike

      panic. These stories about his "scary black preacher" have been trying to get traction since the beginning of the campaign. If you want to measure a man by his words, then measure Obama by Obama's words, not Rev. Wright's words. What kind of campaign is Barack running? One based on unity, hope, lifting people up, solving problems, looking out for the least of these. No one has walked this campaign better grounded in Christtian principles. It is not just talk, when others are goading him to hit her hard in personal ways he refuses. So people who have been looking so diligently for dirt in his record have to keep going to someone else's record to associate with him so he can be attacked. So now we can not just be held responsible for anything we have ever said or done but we must be held accountable for anything anyone we ever associated with ever said or did? Who can stand up to that scrutiny? Can you? Can Hillary? Can John McCain?

      •  This isn't "a story" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LordMike

        This is video of the pastor of Obama's church.  It's not someone else's interpretation, it's not a deliberate smear.  It is what it is. He is what he is. And there are many Caucasians who are already furious at the Clintons being called racist.  They will be even less happy about being indicted as racist themselves. Especailly when Obama himself said that this man is his spiritual advisor.

        Most scientists believe human brains aren't fully formed until the early 20s. -AMA

        by miriam on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:06:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This is not going away.... (3+ / 0-)

    I don't think it should be a part of the discourse, but unfortunately it is. I'm really worried about it and I think it could be a deal-breaker. He has been a part of that church for 20 years and his pastor (former) is the antithesis of who Obama is or says he is..doesn't add up. This will only feed the right's argument that he's a radical in disguise. UGH!!!!

  •  Jeremiah Wright should be removed from the Obama (5+ / 0-)

    campaign.  I think what he has said is far more damaging than any statement made by Ferraro.  The GOP can't attack Ferraro's statement, but they can and will certainly go after Jeremiah Wright.  I also think that Obama fans and their supporters in the Media have crossed the line of objectivity when they claim that somehow Hillary's campaign is dirty and Obama's isn't.  It puts his campaign on a pedastal that is undeserving and makes it easy to call hypocrisy when people like Wright are around the campaign.

    Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

    by khyber900 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:24:29 AM PDT

    •  Does Wright work for his campaign? (0+ / 0-)

      in what capacity? Is he paid? Is he on the stump for him?

      Why do I have to explain the difference between climate and weather every time a wingnut has to shovel his driveway?

      by joeyess on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:28:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hillary *wanted* Ferraro to say that stuff (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      futurebird

      Otherwise she would have asked her not to go on O'Reilly and keep talking.  She didn't - she wants the "Barack is playing the race card/is lucky to be black" theme out there.

      Is there any evidence at all that Obama wants Wright to say this stuff?

      "What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is." --Dan Quayle

      by jakester on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:30:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's a load of crap (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        miriam

        You could make the same argument about Obama and Wright.  Wright's comments have been out there for a while, yet Obama has never fired him. The reason Obama doesn't fire him is because he wants to be loyal to a supporter, especially one who has helped him win over once skeptical African American voters, even if he makes some cringe worthy comments. But somehow, Obama doesn't get scrutinized.  Hillary got rid of Ferraro, yet she gets pummeled by the Keith Olbermann's of the world and the biased kool-aid drinking people of this site.  

        The more I re-read Ferraro's comment, the more I tend to think that the controversy is overblown.  She was making an observation that people are caught up in Obama's story, and clearly part of his story is that he has a great shot to be the first black President. Her statement wasn't carefully thought through and the words look damning at first glance, but I don't think there is the intent to be racist there.

        On the other hand, I think the fact that we're hearing about Wright today has a lot to do with Ferraro's second comment attacking Axelrod for gleefully calling out racism any time anyone says anything about Barack that is less than praiseworthy.
        Obama should understand that what goes around comes around, and the Media can turn on him on a dime just as they did with Nafta-gate.

        Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

        by khyber900 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:49:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hmm, that's not what she said in '06 (0+ / 0-)

          "I think it’s more realistic for a woman than it is for an African-American," said Ms. Ferraro. "There is a certain amount of racism that exists in the United States — whether it’s conscious or not it’s true."

          Her statement not only was carefully thought out, it was REPEATED.  She never intended to be racist, she intended to exploit divisions between blacks and whites in this country in order to help Clinton win the election.  The same thing that Clinton has been doing since New Hampshire.

          And that's substantially different than "cringe-worthy comments."

          Nonetheless, I think he needs to address the Wright question head-on.  But he's doing fine without following my advice.

          "What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is." --Dan Quayle

          by jakester on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:08:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I guess I should quit my synagogue (4+ / 0-)

    It is a warm place; there are wonderful people there; my children are getting a good religious education (ok its indocrination but it tells them who they are); and everyone is pretty open minded.  But then again we have a rabbi who is an AIPAC wing nut to point of racism when it comes to Arabs and Palestinians and to the use of military force against Iran.

  •  Church doctrine (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pucknomad

    A pastors political beliefs are his own and not church doctrine. I've seen Catholic priests who supported guerrilla movements and others who supported right wing dictators all preaching the same gospel from the pulpit.

    Obama's church is not a 'black' church it's in a black neighborhood and it's members may have a range of political beliefs some similar to Rev. Wright and some quite different. The church has been a model of community service and welcomes people of all races.

  •  I guess when the muslim meme doesn't work (0+ / 0-)

    all they can do is attack Obama's religion in a new way. Come on concerned trolls you are showing your colors. I thought Obama was muslim not Christian? So now you are admitting that Obama is Christian?

    When we are together it isn't me who matters, but the other person

    by AHiddenSaint on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:27:21 AM PDT

  •  he has role in campaign (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    roseeriter

    Obama Press Release Is this link to campaign any weaker than Ferraros?

  •  OK, now I understand (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ogre, bawbie

    OK, after reading a lot of this thread, now I understand why in social settings many years ago they said "never talk about politics or religion".

  •  Did anyone see the Good Morning America Clip? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, paintitblue

    He had religion professor Shaun Casey defending Obama's faith and relationship to Rev. Wright. I thought he was pretty great actually, so I suspect that the Obama campaign is sort of expecting this particular attack. I think we are lucky that it's coming up now and not in the Geneneral election, so that he really has a chance to develop a response.

    Pennsylvania=Iowa. It won't even be close!

    by jenontheshore on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:36:25 AM PDT

  •  Provocative statements (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wader, jeff in nyc, paintitblue

     As a Obama supporter I wince at the, "God Damn America!", comments of the pastor, but Senator Obama should continue to disagree with those statements of the retired pastor that are offensive to him and then perhaps reaffirm the role Barack's faith has played in his life.
     Develop a thick skin, because these types of "revelations", will continue through the campaign and an Obama presidency.  
     The inertia of the status quo in Washington is a powerful force to move, but it will not happen without the highest political office holder-- that of citizen-- exercises their power to change Washington.

  •  Very damning it is it is on Huffington. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    paintitblue

    But don't think the Hillary people haven't had paid people go through all his sermons since they all have been video taped, and don't think it is a coincidence that this is occurring just one day after the Ferraro scandal.  This is out there to build on the comments of Ferraro and create fears about Obama.

    Classic smear job.  I am sure if you took every sermon and put together a little hit piece you could make anyone look bad.

  •  Well At Least (0+ / 0-)

    He's not a Muslim anymore.

  •  A note on sermons (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ogre, bawbie, wader, jeff in nyc, txdreamer

    God, it's been a while since I've posted anything, but a couple of points about sermons:

    1.) Sermons are listened to, and not usually read. There are important issues like tone to consider.

    2.) Sermons are, in many respects, and perhaps especially in the black church (not that that's one monolithic thing), performances... so it's important to hear the whole thing from beginning to end and consider it as a whole rather than taking snippets.

    3.) Sermons are the centerpiece to many protestant services (and, again, perhaps especially in the black church), and much of the service may be built around the sermon, so it can be important to not only have the entire sermon but the entire experience of that church service in order to put it in proper context.

    4.) Take it another step... a sermon is a message from a particular person to a particular audience, usually one where the pastor and the congregation have known each other for a considerable time and have shared concerns and experiences... the sermon is in a huge social context.

    Short version: little snippets from a sermon don't mean jack. What's more, Trinity United Church of Christ is, surprise, a UCC church, Pastor Wright has the influence that the congregation lets him have. There's no requirement that they agree with him, and my guess is that everyone disagrees with him about something.

    •  Fiery Sermons (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      brklyngrl

      Are part of the tradition of all Protestant churches in America, somewhere back in the history.  Even the mild Congregationalists have their Cotten Mather.  This is dumb.  "Fire and brimstone" and "Hell and Damnation" are part of the Great American Way.

      •  Ok, well check this out and re-evaluate the (0+ / 0-)

        "electability" calculus, here in the good ole U S of A.

        http://www.youtube.com/...

        •  Hmm (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ogre, wader

          I might not be the best judge here, since I'm not a rich white person and I basically agree with him.  Heh.  And I support Sen. Clinton.  I kind of enjoyed the sermon. :)

          You can ask whether this reflects poorly on the candidate.  I'm not sure.  If Barack Obama was talking like this on his campaign, it certainly would.  But he's not, so ...

          •  But This Also (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pucknomad, ogre, brklyngrl, latinadem

            Ties into something that I wrote about yesterday.  It's true that white people do not like to be lectured about racism.

            I think that they in fact should be lectured about racism.

            But I'm not sure that a presidential campaign is the best place to demand that they get the message.

            •  I agree, sort of. I'm of two minds on this. (0+ / 0-)

              Racism has been terrible and where I live (SF Bay Area) it seems to continue unabated.  But then I go back to where I used to live (the South) and I see black universities thriving and black people living essentially middle class lives and functioning at very high levels in government.  I dated a black man back in college and his mother owned a Mercedes.   Well beyond the reach of MY parents.    

              There are two competing realities here:

              1. Black people make up the highest percentage of poor.   I;.e., Count all the poor people,  and you see a high percentage are black.  

              BUT

              1. Poor do NOT make up the highest percentage of black people.   I.e., Take all the black people and you see that only a LOW percentage are poor.  

              The main thing, for me, is that the Obama campaign had to break the strong ties between the Clintons and the African-American community in order to win, and they proceeded to do so by smearing the Clintons on race.

              In my book, that's unforgivable.  They deserve to reap what they have sown.  And this Wright story might do it.

        •  Well, electability... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wader, fhcec

          I try to avoid discussions of who is or is not electable, I simply don't have the expertise required.

          However, the sermon you posted (well, the segment of the sermon, Wright can go on) seemed to be fairly honest about the historical and contemporary condition of people of African descent in this country.

          So, on the one hand, Obama can reiterate that he doesn't agree with Wright all the time. On the other, a real, serious conversation about the conditions of African Americans needs to be had, and there are few better places to start than on the south side of Chicago.

    •  Genral public (0+ / 0-)

      dosen't do nuiances. I wish they did but I'm sure the next time 6o minutes does an interview with some white guy in PA. He going to complain about Obama going to a "radical black church."

      This is going to get ugly.

  •  Ever been to church? (0+ / 0-)

    Some of the things these religious people say is gross, and disturbing. Thats the nature of religion.

    2+2 = 5 : For Extremely large values of 2

    by Eidolon on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:47:24 AM PDT

  •  here's an idea (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brklyngrl, paintitblue

    let's purge from all campaigns anyone who might possibly hold any belief or have made any statement in their life that could possibly be misconstrued (by anyone) to be "ist" in any way because it could somehow be tied to our candidate.

    please. the constant calls for purging and firing of surrogates is starting to get a little ridiculous. people can separate themselves from other people''s statements without having to fire them. it would be completely disingenous of obama to "fire" wright now. he is better off re-stating his differences with the man while verbally maintaining the historic respect he has had for him in his spiritual journey.

    "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." -BHO

    by txdreamer on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:48:06 AM PDT

  •  I think this will hurt Obama bad (0+ / 0-)

    If the story sticks.

  •  Josh Marshall has summed this up (6+ / 0-)

    quite nicely:

    If Obama's the nominee, we will see no end of this kind of stuff. And there's probably some small benefit of getting a preview. But the simple fact is that we wouldn't be seeing this stuff now if it weren't for the fact that this is the kind of campaign Hillary Clinton's campaign has decided to wage -- often directly and at other times indirectly by not reining it in in her supporters when it crops up on its own. Wright is news today because Ferraro's been news yesterday. Are her comments racist? That's a loaded, too copious, word. And there've been cases where the Clinton team has gotten a bum rap on these matters. What I do know, however, is that Clinton's campaign and her surrogates have injected the subject of Obama's race into this campaign too many times now for it to be credible to believe that it is anything but a conscious strategy.

    go read the whole thing.

    Bottom line?  Thank You Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    Why do I have to explain the difference between climate and weather every time a wingnut has to shovel his driveway?

    by joeyess on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:51:25 AM PDT

    •  We got another Hillary blamer (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      miriam

      Don't blame Wright for his sermons and words. Don't blame Obama for having a 20 year relationship with Wright. Don't blame Obama for making Wright his pastor and spiritual advisor. Don't blame Obama for attending Wright's church. Don't blame Obama for including Wright in his campaign. Don't blame ABC News for reporting it. Don't blame yourself for putting your head in the sand. Just blame Hillary. Yep, just blame Hillary. It's all Hillary's fault.

  •  I'm kinda curious why (0+ / 0-)

    rags like Politico are being used as source reports for some of the more "concerned" Clinton supporters at DKos, all of a sudden.

    The Limbaugh crowd takes references from there.  Constantly.

    Which is a clue . . .

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:55:39 AM PDT

  •  There is evidence that Christ never existed. (0+ / 0-)

    The God Who Wasn't There
    raises this very question.

    In turn, leading to this:

    If, as I believe, religion is all a bunch of hooey, why is this even an issue?

    Why do I have to explain the difference between climate and weather every time a wingnut has to shovel his driveway?

    by joeyess on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:59:29 AM PDT

  •  It's pretty inflammatory, but . . . (0+ / 0-)
    1. Religious speech generally gets a pass in America. You could fill an encyclopedia with the nutso statements that have been made by religious leaders very close to powerful political people. But most people seem to compartmentalize religious speech as being pretty unrelated to political speech.
    1. Pastor Wright's statements represent a certain truth on the opposite end of the spectrum from the "support the troops" America first right or wrong pablum that comes from the Republican side. i actually think the cited statements addd something valuable to the debate.
    1. Any controversy that focuses attention on Obama's CHRISTIAN faith can't be all bad, considering the Muslim slime mails all over the place.
  •  I don't think this is a main stream church among (0+ / 0-)

    I don't think this is a main stream church among most blacks, is it?  I'd be curious to know where Hillary worships (please, no awful comments -- I'm asking seriously if anyone knows).  

    •  Well... mainstream... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      paintitblue

      ...is somewhat difficult to define. However, it's not that terribly unusual for black pastors speaking to black congregations to sometimes talk about the history   of and continuing presence of the oppression of black people in this country.

      That said, I'm pretty confident that Wright doesn't always give sermons like this. I'd also note that, in many, many respects, Trinity United Church of Christ is rather progressive and socially engaged. It both reflects the tradition of the black church and moves beyond it.

    •  Where Hillary worships (0+ / 0-)

      She is Methodist. Beyond that I don't know. But, I suspect that we'll be hearing more about it in the news.

  •  Obama will never be President (6+ / 0-)

    It's over.  He belonged to that church for 20 years and never spoke out against the hate -- until asked about it while running for President.  He's done.

    I can't say I'm surprised.  Race-baiting has been the principle tool of his campaign from the beginning.  You all not only sat still for it, you helped it along.  You turned DKOS into a cesspool of intolerance for anyone who didn't agree with you.  I have to say that the only good thing about this is that Obama will bring down the whole phony "progressive" wing of the Democratic Party with him.  All you folks at DKOS should enjoy your last moments in the sun.  It's about to end.

    The only question is:  Will Obama be the nominee, thus guaranteeing a Republican President once again?  

    It's all too funny, except for the damage you've done to our country.

  •  BO's pastor... (0+ / 0-)

    Then, darn it, do not give up on Hillary. Don't you see...she is the change America really needs? Yes, this Rev Wright thing is very upsetting. Got any white supremacists running successfully for office? I doubt it!!! Someone needs to call this out. Sweep up the eggshells! It's time to talk the truth!

  •  Please -- this is insane (0+ / 0-)

    Who cares what the pastor says?  It's his opinions -- not Obama's!

    Are Catholics now responsible for the homophobia and sexism spouted by the Church?

    I am so sick of this.  Anyone who would judge Obama for something like this is an idiot and wouldn't have voted for Obama anyway.

    "It is time to be patriotic about something other than war" - John Edwards

    by Valhalla on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:31:26 PM PDT

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