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What an incredibly stupid story.

After months in which he was largely absent from public deliberations about how to avert a risk to the party’s hopes of taking the White House in November, Mr. Dean stepped forward last week to say he wanted the contest resolved by July 1 and for Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama to tone down their attacks on each other.

Yet three years after he won election as the party chairman by running largely as an outsider, it is not clear that Mr. Dean has the political skills or the stature with the two campaigns to bring the nominating battle to a relatively quick and unifying conclusion.

Indeed, 24 hours after he made his remarks, Mrs. Clinton said she intended to keep fighting for the nomination through the summer, if necessary. It was an unmistakable rebuke to Mr. Dean, who has never had good relations with the Clintons.

Clinton's remarks may have been a rebuke to Dean, but who cares? If the supers come out in force and side with Obama, this thing is over. If they side with Clinton, this thing is over. Having Clinton publicly accept that now has nothing to do with Dean's "political skills". You know what does? Getting those supers to commit before July 1.

[S]enior officials in both campaigns said they had heard rarely from Mr. Dean on matters like the tone of the contest and how it might be concluded and what to do about the Michigan and Florida delegates, the subject of a bitter and potentially debilitating debate between the Clinton and Obama campaigns.

Dean has been very clear about Michigan and Florida: the rules are the rules. That doesn't make the Clinton partisans happy, but that's not from a lack of leadership on it, but because of his leadership on fighting for the rules that the party agreed on. Let's not forget that Clinton pitbull Harold Ickes was on the committee that voted for the sanctions.

As for "tone", does anyone really think that any outsider can impose his or her will on the campaigns? What was he supposed to do, kidnap Mark Penn as he urged the Clinton campaign to go negative and lock him away in some dungeon in the basement of DNC headquarters?

The campaigns will do what they need to do. Dean would have to be a moron to think he has any influence in such decisions.

The chairman of the Florida Democratic Party, Karen Thurman, said she could not recall the last time Mr. Dean had called her to try work out the dispute. She and other Florida Democrats are to meet with Mr. Dean on Wednesday to try to persuade him to agree to a compromise.

Dean made the DNC's position very clear to her before the primaries started. She ignored him while Florida Democrats openly mocked him. Now she wants him to get her out of her own mess? Hilarious.

Some Democratic Party leaders, while offering sympathy for Mr. Dean’s plight, said it was urgent that he take a more assertive role to restore peace. Several suggested that Mr. Dean — who has sought to build a legacy by expanding party operations to all 50 states — risked having his tenure as party leader remembered for a traumatizing loss in a year where most Democrats think victory should be easy.

"Some leaders"? Who are those leaders? Let's count them -- Donald Fowler (a Clinton supporter) and Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen. That's it. Just two. And again, what do they want him to do? Kidnap Geraldine Ferraro and lock her up with Penn?

But that stuff is nothing compared to this old, tired tripe:

He in many ways ran for chairman as a candidate defying the Democratic establishment, and his first years were marked by a very public feud with Representative Rahm Emanuel, Democrat of Illinois, over Mr. Dean’s trademark proposal to use Democratic National Committee money to build organizations in all 50 states. He does not have particularly close relationships with many of the people who are central to the Clinton and Obama campaigns or Washington Democratic players.

"I have never heard from him," said Charles T. Manatt, who was chairman of the Democratic National Committee from 1981 to 1985. "But he is a totally different style from someone like me who came in through the party process. Dean doesn’t live in town so he hasn’t connected with a lot of people in town."

Good. That's really, really good, no matter how much the villagers whine that Dean won't attend their cocktail parties or pad their bank accounts. There's a reason why the party outside DC loves him, and the party in DC hates him, and it's for the right reason.

At this point in the article, "some Democrats" say that Dean is just peachy. But the story moves on quickly to this beaut:

But frustration with Mr. Dean’s hands-off approach was reflected across Democratic ranks. Peter S. Lowy, a prominent Los Angeles contributor who has held regular fund-raisers for Democratic campaign committees, sent Mr. Dean a letter complaining about his leadership of the party during this period.

"As long-term supporters of the party, we have been singularly dismayed with your performance during the current Democratic presidential primary season," Mr. Lowy wrote.

This the same Lowy that has maxed out to John McCain, and someone who hasn't given a dime to the DNC this cycle? Yup. Just another big dollar donors upset that Dean isn't kissing his ass. And he's going to lecture Dean on party building as McCain cashes his checks?

Every so often one of these articles come through the transom. Dean's faced them before, and he'll deal with them the same way he has before -- by ignoring the shrieking critics and doing what's right.

You have to be a frakin' moron to pretend Dean has shown no leadership. So here it is, in bullet points for the addled and their journalist friends:

  • Florida and Michigan violated DNC rules. Their contests don't matter. The DNC rules committee can re-evaluate at the appropriate time.
  • Florida and Michigan are more than free to hold sanctioned contests if they want.
  • Dean thinks the process should play out. And once the final contest is in the books, in June, the super delegates should declare their preferences.

I didn't have to do research to jot those three bullet points down. They are self-evident and have been repeated a billion times in every interview Dean does. They are studiously non-partisan at a time when the most zealous supporters parse every utterance for evidence of bias.

Those whining that Dean isn't doing anything, quite frankly, either have their own agenda, or they're just really stupid. But now that the NY Times tells us what some of the Beltway crowd think about Dean, time to find out what we think of him.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:25 AM PDT.

Poll

Do you approve of the way DNC Chairman Howard Dean is doing his job?

89%15249 votes
6%1145 votes
3%619 votes

| 17019 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  The June deadline may backfire (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ZinZen

    What happens if in June all the supers declare and we end up with neither candidate at 2025 (which could very well happen if Hillary gets "hot" going into the finish)?

  •  Mess with the Dean, get the Kos (17+ / 0-)

    The ruling class has been dividing whites and blacks for 400 years--it is nothing new.

    by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:28:40 AM PDT

    •  We didn't REALLY think (30+ / 0-)

      the insider resentment and whining would stop just because Dean has been so successful, did we?

      No matter what happens ... somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." Dave Barry

      by Granny Doc on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:30:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No (9+ / 0-)

        I would expect the volume to increase. Hey look, the volume is increasing. :)

        To me, the absolute most important issue ANY of us has, and this nation has, is that we are currently being ruled by a gang of immoral war criminals. -Hornito

        by discocarp on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:35:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'm particularly stunned (22+ / 0-)
        that a guy who was party chair from 1981-1985 has "never heard from" Dean. Why, I am sure he would have so much to say that would be relevant to today's campaigns. I'd love to hear the insights he could share with Dean about online fundraising!

        Seriously, I expected to see James Carville's byline on that article. What a crock.

        We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

        by anastasia p on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:43:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Laughing too when I read that (12+ / 0-)

          Yeah, let's go back to the Dem success plan during the Reagan years and do THAT over.  What a whiner.

          Sound like lots of sour grapes to me that Dean won't play the cocktail party and wink-wink games of D.C.  Good, that's why we worked so hard to get him in.

          Wish I could vote yes twice in that poll.  Dean was SOOO right when he said we would have to buy back this country.  Unfortunately, it turns out we have to buy it back from BOTH parties because nobody cares about the voters anymore.

          Dean needs to keep telling FL and MI to go pound salt or put up the cash for new primaries.  Their whining is bullshit and I hope the Dem voters of those states have their party chairs' heads on spikes when this is all over, because THEY are the ones that did this to their own states' voters.

          "When people show you who they really are, believe them." - Maya Angelou

          by Pennsylvanian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:06:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  we CAN pay for it (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Pennsylvanian

            Dean needs to keep telling FL and MI to go pound salt

            Right.

            or put up the cash for new primaries.

            Wrong.
            Clinton and Obama between them raised $90M in Feb. ALONE.
            WE CAN afford to pay for this. Dean's claim that he
            can't is simply A LIE -- the factual truth is that
            he canNOT afford NOT to pay for this.  Leaving
            MI and FL unrepresented is going to cast a pall of
            ILlegitimacy over the WHOLE operation!
            More to the point, it's going to throw away our
            ONE SINGLE MOST important issue: OUR NAME:
            The name of this party is the Democratic party .
            That really does imply that we are also supposed
            to be little-d democratic.  Ever since 2000 we
            have been able to truthfully and credibly say that
            WE CARE about counting EVERY vote and THEY DON'T,
            that they will in fact intentionally suppress votes
            in order to win.  That is simply TOO VALUABLE an
            issue to LET drop for a mere $9M (or whatever a
            Florida caucus would cost).  They could probably
            do it by mail for even less.

            Their whining is bullshit

            Of course it is, but disfranchising whiners is just
            as unacceptable as disfranchising anybody else.
            In this case, don't whine -- ORGANIZE.
            They should be trying hard to get their people to
            vote and participate.

            and I hope the Dem voters of those states have their party chairs' heads on spikes when this is all over, because THEY are the ones that did this to their own states' voters.

            I was there, you weren't.
            I was registered in Duval county during the
            summer and fall of 2007.  I was new to the area
            and looking for partisan events/clubs in which
            to participate.  They had a state convention in
            October but it was at an Orlando resort and I
            couldn't afford it.   I DID, however, get enough
            contact to understand that AVERAGE FLORIDA DEMOCRATIC
            VOTERS actually thought that the DNC (and the
            boycotting candidates) WERE TREATING THEM UNFAIRLY.
            Remember, at this time, we did not know that IA
            and NH were going to be won by DIFFERENT people.
            They feared (perhaps reasonably) that going later
            would mean having no influence at all, would mean
            just ratifying a decision that had already been
            made by small states.
            The legislators and state party leadership did NOT
            inflict this upon anyone.  THEY WERE RESPONDING,
            BOTTOM-UP, to a mass cry from their voters to be
            early enough to be relevant.  The fact that this
            was going to be a year in which LATER would be
            more relevant simply was not foreseeable.
            It is, however, both richly ironic and poetically just.

            "You can't nice these people to death."-- John Edwards

            by ge0rge on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:34:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Too bad, so sad (4+ / 0-)

              They feared (perhaps reasonably) that going later
              would mean having no influence at all, would mean
              just ratifying a decision that had already been
              made by small states.

              Cry me a river.  PA has been voting in April since the dawn of time and we are just as important as any other large state in the general.  Waiting our turn has turned out to be quite the benefit this year, but we've sat on the sideline for decades.  Being relevant was not Florida's only aim, it was being first.  And that broke the DNC rules.  KNOWINGLY AND WILLFULLY.  If the voters demanded this then they should quit their bitching too, because they disenfranchised themselves just as much as their state party leaders from what you are telling me.

              Sorry, but you have given me even LESS sympathy for Florida, which I didn't know was possible.

              "When people show you who they really are, believe them." - Maya Angelou

              by Pennsylvanian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:54:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  So you are one of the "I don't like the results" (0+ / 0-)

              so I'll change the rules?

              The Democratic party made the rules.  MI and FL broke the rules.  Obama and Clinton agreed to the rules and to the sanctions.  Now you are saying that Dean has to ignore the rules in order for the election to be legitimate.  I say the opposite.  If Dean caves and says it's ok that MI and FL broke the rules, the next election will be a free-for-all.  We will probably have states holding their primaries in the year before the election.

            •  Hillary can't afford to pay her staff. (0+ / 0-)

              She has no money nor any intention of a revote that she may lose.

              Hillary Clinton: Running on Fumes!

              by Yoshimi on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:17:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Could have been relevant on Super Tuesday... (0+ / 0-)

              I'm with Pennsylvanian and Katiebegood - FL and MI (more FL than MI imho) just wanted to be first. I understood their argument, as I firmly believe that FL and MI are FAR more representative of the US as a whole than sparkly white IA and NH. I don't begrudge them that. I lived in FL for several years, and that's one crazy mix of people down there!

              But they could have been just as relevant on Super Duper Tuesday (call it what you will). A whole bunch of states were really relevant on Super Tuesday. It was almost as exciting, for me anyway, as the general election in November.

              They played with fire and got burned - get your own bandaids is all I have to say.

              "The greatest menace to freedom is an inert people" -- Louis Brandeis

              by cgiselle12 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:05:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  actually, florida can't do a mail-in vote (0+ / 0-)

              florida law  says that you cannot do a mail-in vote for a primary. so it would have to be done by a private entity. however, florida also has a law that says voter registrations cannot be released to private individuals or companies. without voter registrations there would be no way to verify the votes. so there is no way that florida could legally have a mail-in vote that can be legitimate.

          •  Under Dean's leadership, good things happened (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            IM, lizah, Pennsylvanian, cgiselle12, Amber6541
            1. 50 state strategy which has yielded results in Democratic registrations soaring through the roof and Democratic turnout increasingly rapidly both during the primary and in 2006.
            1. I give Dean some credit for the 2006 wins. He has been successful in fundraising and organization.
            1. Dean does not shun progressive ideals like some former DNC chairs did ( Terry MacAwful comes to mind as one )
            1. Dean is for building the party outside the beltway.

            As that is where Democrats need wins, the DNC is not there just to kiss the butts of big DNC donors and big wigs. Dean has made the DNC about all Democrats and strengthening the party. 4.

            This is the Silly Season of Politics-Barack Obama

            by wishingwell on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:46:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Wish I Could Rec 10 Times (3+ / 0-)

            Good Post.

            I am an Independent who started lurking here because I was impressed by Obama.  I've always been more conservative in my voting, and I was concerned with Obama's "liberal" tag.  He appealed to me because I am disgusted with the current political fighting (I haven't voted in the last 3 elections), and his message of change resonated with me.

            This site seemed to me to be the best for a thorough discussion about his policies and issues.  I was struggling to like Obama, and had a hard time convincing myself until I read this diary:

            http://www.dailykos.com/...

            To make liberal values more appealing and move them to the majority.  And that's what he did. In one brief moment, Obama captured the essense of the power of his potential presidency -- to build a progressive majority by breaking down the "categories" and attracting voters to our positions.

            Finally, I understood why Barrack appealed to me and that it was O.K. for this 47 year old political agnostic to support him and believe in his call for Hope.

            To make a long story short (I know - too late), one of the issues that I kept reading about was how Dean was working to take back control of the party from the money brokers and special interests.  That was the final motivation for me.  It was enough to convince me to register to vote, and I will be voting for Obama in November.

            --Independent Impressed by Obama!

            by SnowItch on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 11:51:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Isn't There an Old Saying... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        anna, Debby, SallyCat, oldjohnbrown, Amber6541

        ...about biting the hand that feeds you? I would think logic and self-preservation would dictate not pi$$ing off the chair of your party who could potentially make or break your nomination. Yep, I know that logic doesn't apply.

      •  ever watch "The Dog Whisper"? (15+ / 0-)

        When Cesar Milan takes on a particularly aggressive dog and makes it behave, the first thing it does is try to fight him.  "Throwing a temper tantrum" he calls it.  His solution is to stand his ground and maintain what he calls "calm assertive energy" until the dog submits and accepts that he is now the "pack leader".  

        Funny how Dr. Dean seems to be  using the same strategy with the DLC crowd.  Since they have reacted like the unbalanced dogs thus far, I imagine they will eventually get over themselves and accept his leadership.  Dogs, being smarter than a lot of humans probably learn to do this faster.

        'The votes are in, and we won.' - Jim Webb, 11/07/2006

        by lcork on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:03:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wow, good analogy....... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wishingwell

          .......and it fits so well in this era of the Clintons seeing their dominance fading.

          If everyone bowed and katowed to the political will of the 'centerist'/Clinton/Globalism/corporate friendly view, then we would all be hunky dorie, right?

          Well the left wing of the Democratic Party is standing on its own 2 legs and are gaining ground, thru sheer effort and power of numbers. Kinda hard to ignore the masses indignation now, heh Bill?

          I remember when Bill advised Kerry to drop the GLBT wing and that would get Kerry over the top. Just like the Clintons for years and years put down the more liberal wing of the Democratic Party and said "Where else will they go?"

          So now HRC claims she is a progressive and people that don't know any better echo the name progressive. But it just isn't so. HRC is not a liberal or a progressive. Not unless she is hiding it well, so that after the election she can suprise us all. BWAAAAHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!  

        •  Gosh, I love that! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lcork

          Perhaps we could convince Dean to become our "Party Whisperer," and go around getting "bad dogs" to behave.

          No stupid jokes please.

          WereBear
          Reality always wins.
          the way of cats

          by WereBear on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:43:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  In the instance of Florida and Michigan (0+ / 0-)

      Dean completely abdicated his responsibility as chairmen of the party.

      Nearly 2 million people voted under outrageous circumstances.  This was a result of a number of complicated factors, but Dean should have tried to broker a solution.

      He did nothing.

      I will never forgive him.

      •  I call bullshit!!! (22+ / 0-)

        The Dem party leaders in those states knowingly and willfully broke the rules of the DNC.  Dean can't force states to stay within the calendar and they chose not to.  His job is to enforce the rules of the DNC and he has done that.

        Sorry, but you are dead wrong.  The party leaders in those states deserve your ire and the outrage of their own voters.  Dean deserves a medal for putting up with all this bullshit accusing him of being responsible for the actions of these state party leaders.  They disenfranchised themselves and their own voters and now they want to blame anyone other than the reflection in the mirror.  

        "When people show you who they really are, believe them." - Maya Angelou

        by Pennsylvanian on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:12:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Dean did what he should have (15+ / 0-)

         He told FL and MI that they had perfectly fine, sanctioned primary dates under DNC rules, and that they could either (a) hold their primaries in those perfectly fine, sanctioned dates, or (b) lose their right to help determine the nominee.

        FL and MI chose (b).

        What, they thought Dean was kidding when he said they'd enforce the rules?

        Your state party leadership appears to be composed of some rather galactically stupid people. I do feel for you there.

        "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

        by Buzzer on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:19:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They were used to getting what they wanted. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The Totalizer

          The DNC for the longest time had no power with the states.

          They didn't know that the 50 state strategy goes both ways and the DNC now expects results and accountability out of its state leaders.

          Hillary Clinton: Running on Fumes!

          by Yoshimi on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:23:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I'm beginning to see what the real outrage is (12+ / 0-)

        There are a lot of power broker types in the Democratic Party who, because they do not respect Dean, think they can just strike out on their own and expect the good Doctor to "broker a deal" and meet them halfway on their intransigence and their insolence.

        Florida Dems mocked Dean. Mocked him, on the floor of their state senate. And they expect him to go along? That's a power play, pure and simple, a way to show Dean who's boss. And they're outraged when he calmly reminds them that he is the boss, and the rules are the rules.

        I get the same "who do you think you are, punk?" vibe from the Clintons. Well, guys, the "punk" is the chair of the Democratic National Committee. He sets the rules. You follow them. Get used to it.

        No laws but Liberty. No king but Conscience.

        by oldjohnbrown on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:24:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Okay (10+ / 0-)

        Enough of this. I'm really sorry that your Legislatures suck ass. I really am. But what happened in Florida is their fault. Dean, and the DNC, gave them plenty of outs. They figured that they could steam roll him once things got into full swing. They were wrong. This is why Howard Dean was my only choice for president in 2004. Unlike Bush, and now proven to be unlike the Clintons and their operatives, he is man of scruples and integrity.

        The rules were made, and agreed upon, by members of the Democratic Party. Not Howard Dean. Not Barak Obama. The whole of the Democratic Party, of which Hillary Clinton is a member - and also agreed to.

        You, if you are indeed from Florida, were not disenfranchised. You were given the chance to vote in the state-sponsored primary election on Jan. 29th. The Democratic Party - which, by the way, is NOT enshrined in the Constitution of the US and is bound by its own rules as a private organization - may not make rules you agree with. But the rules were made, the officials from the Party that the politicians are part of signed-off on them, and the game has started. Just because Hillary can't finesse the rules to her liking does not mean you were denied your right to vote.

        If you don't like the results, elect better state Democrats.

      •  see, that was an average Fla Dem talking (5+ / 0-)

        Nearly 2 million people voted under outrageous circumstances.  This was a result of a number of complicated factors, but Dean should have tried to broker a solution.

        He did nothing.

        I'm fairly confident this poster was not a county
        chair.  He is, however, an idiot.

        Howard Dean does NOT NEED to do anything to broker
        a solution.  IF YOU IN FLORIDA want to vote, it is
        UP TO YOU to come up with a delegate selection plan
        THAT CONFORMS TO THE RULES.  YOU STILL HAVE TIME !
        IF you want to vote then GET OFF YOUR ASS!

        "You can't nice these people to death."-- John Edwards

        by ge0rge on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:36:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  He Did Try To 'Broker a Solution' (7+ / 0-)

        He told the state organizations what the rules were, and what the consequences would be if they broke those rules.

        They went ahead and broke them anyway.

        Blaming Dean for the actions of the ranking Michigan and Florida Dems who thought they were above the rules does nothing to prevent a situation like this from happening again in the future, in MI or FL or any other state, which is what the party should be working towards.

        Standing firm and not letting the rule-breakers get away with it, however, does work towards preventing a repeat.

        It's truly unfortunate that Florida and Michigan voters have to take the hit for the brazen and foolish decisions of Brewer and Thurman and those who claimed to be acting in their best interest. But Dean can't look out for Florida and Michigan Democrats. He's got to look out for Democrats nation-wide, and allowing rule-breakers in two states to get away with flaunting those rules just makes the voters in the other 48 second class citizens.

        Laugh while you can, monkey boy! -- E. Lizardo

        by Anton Sirius on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:43:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Just Clinton attacks on Dean (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Totalizer

        Dean should have tried to broker a solution.

        What exactly does that mean?   I am sure that Dean spoke to some of the state party people and tried to get them to stick to the rules.  Just because he didn't issue a press release about those calls is no reason to assume he didn't make them.

        And just what would it mean to "broker" a solution in a situation like this.   The schedule was worked out by a big committee and agreed to.  What sort of a "deal" was he in a position to "broker" once the other states had accepted the rules Florida and Michigan Democrats started to move to jump to the front of the line?

        And even now, how can he "broker" a deal unless the campaigns are ready to come to an agreement?

        I think that all of this agitation against Dean is part of Hillary's game plan to make the whole primary process somehow invalid and therefore build up public support for the superdelagates to ignore the results.

        And of course the Clintons would love to be able not only to stage a coup at the convention but to blame Howard Dean, whom they have always regard as an outsider, for the convention being such a mess that the old guard of the party had a duty to come in and take back the party.

      •  Nothing? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Totalizer

        It is pretty clear what he did.  He upheld the rules decided on by the DNC members during last fall's convention.

        Hillary Clinton: Running on Fumes!

        by Yoshimi on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:21:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  As much as I would hold state Democratic (0+ / 0-)

        officials responsible for allowing a primary vote without securing a delegation to represent it, I find it more than interesting that state Republican officials went along with the primary plans.  Both Michigan and Florida Republicans knew their delegations would be cut in half by the RNC for violating similar rules and were well aware of the predicament that Democrats faced.  In both states, state Republicans voted to move their primaries ahead of Super Tuesday attempting to secure early victories for Governor George Romney's son in Michigan and for Mayor Rudy Guiliani in Florida.  The top-tier Democratic candidates signed a pledge not to participate or campaign there in deference to Iowa and New Hampshire which rescheduled their votes in December and regained their traditional spots leaving the Democratic side with beauty contests (aka Presidential Preference Primaries).

        For every difficult question, there is an answer that is simple, easily understood and wrong.--H.L. Mencken

        by The Totalizer on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 12:46:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm reading the John Adams book the HBO series (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SnowItch

      is based on. I'm amazed at how similar what Dean is going through now is what Adams experienced as president. Adams was repulsed by the party system so never joined in when they started up so he was always an outsider himself. The vitriolic criticisms of him are reminiscent of what I'm seeing about Dean (although they extended to the personal side).

      Adams didn't really have anyone to back him except for a few people, so it's heartening to me to see defense here of Dean and the fact that Florida and Michigan broke the rules. Especially in light of all the garbage I hear and see on the TV these days.

      Between Hillary and Ed Rendell, the Florida-Michigan rationale has been worked out like so much Silly Putty - taking whatever shape they wish depending on whatever point they need on whatever day!

      Adams believed in a country of men ruled by laws. So do I. I'm not a lawyer but I think this is one of those cases.

      To repeat: The candidates, including H. Clinton, agreed that Florida-Michigan broke the rules and whatever happens in their primaries doesn't count. Therefore, Clinton shouldn't insist on changing the rules just because the situation no longer suits her.

      I don't buy the Clinton excuses, no matter how many times some new rationale is parroted. I support Chairman Howard Dean on this position, not only because he is DNC Chairman but because he is right. And, were John Adams alive today, he wouldn't be writing pamphlets to that effect, he'd be prolific on his own extremely popular blog.

      It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish. - Mother Teresa

      by paluxy1945 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:49:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I like the job Dean is doing (28+ / 0-)

    but I sort of wish he weren't in a position where he had to hold his tongue. His outspokenness/bluntness is one of his best qualities, and I miss hearing him let it rip.

    •  He should speak up (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Luetta, Cyber Kat, SnowItch

      Actually, now is the right time. He's not beholden to anyone. Someone in this party needs to lay down the law.

      -7.38, -5.23 One day we ALL will know the truth about the 2000 presidential election. God help us all.

      by CocoaLove on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:41:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Being a leader does NOT mean being a dictator. (16+ / 0-)

      When the followers in your group are natural-born leaders, you give them guidance, then let them fly.

      That's exactly what Dean has done: Here are the rules to play by, let me know if you have any problems, may the best candidate win. I'm off to Vermont for a few months.

      Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom. -- Barack Obama

      by Jimdotz on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:41:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Herding cats (16+ / 0-)

      requires patience.  Dean has shown a nice touch in being the Party Chair.  He's not supposed to take sides particularly and he's supposed to run the inside operation.  Even his recent pronouncements have been from that position.  It's a dreadful position to be in when the primary election situation is what it is right now.  He has to maintain the poker face.  His time of influence is coming up after the primaries are over, and he'll still have to maintain official neutrality.  His job is the party as a whole.  The Villagers don't like that he's not peddling influence from the inside.

    •  In this case, his reservation is leadership (6+ / 0-)

      I support Obama, but if Dean came out and openly supported Obama and asked Clinton to step aside, I would be none too pleased. It would be a significant overstepping of his authority.

      100-foot tall robotic Obama vs. mini-Ditka. Who wins?

      by droogie6655321 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:56:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  His actions have been pretty blunt (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      anna, Randall Sherman, david mizner

      Not seating FL or MI speaks much louder than any words ever could've spoken.  I really wish that it hadn't played out this way, and I think that the alleged complicity of the FL Dems is overstated here.

      The bill moving up the primary date was going to pass regardless of what Dems in the lege did.  They got a paper trail in exchange for going along w/ the deal.  Getting something that everything on this site wants in exchange for not fighting something that you were ultimately powerless to stop seems like a good deal to me.

      FL would've always been something of an uphill battle for Obama.  If this controversy is not satisfactorily resolved, it will become that steeper of a climb.  Since there will be many House seats in play here this fall, that's not a good thing.

      Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

      by RFK Lives on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:00:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  FL Dems are COMPLETELY guilty (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eman

        If the Republicans gave them a beauty contest
        then THEY STILL COULD HAVE HAD A CAUCUS
        on their own!  THEY DO NOT NEED the Florida
        legislature's permission for that!  And IT IS STILL
        not too late!  And ALL THREE of Dean,Obama,AND Clinton
        NEED to be telling them that and OFFERING to FUND it
        for them!  Personally I think MI and FL should both
        send delegations to Oregon to get tutored on how to
        do it by mail, with a May 27 deadline.

        "You can't nice these people to death."-- John Edwards

        by ge0rge on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:21:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There's not time for that. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          auron renouille

          In order to have a successful mail-in vote, you must have recorded the signatures of all the voters so they can be compared when the ballot is mailed in.

          That's how it works in OR and WA, and that's how voting fraud is eliminated. Once you vote your anonymous ballot, you put it in a security envelope and sign the outside of it. That's then put in another envelope for mailing.

          There isn't enough time to record all those signatures. To have mail-in voting without taking this step would be to disenfranchise voters.

          •  that is just silly (0+ / 0-)

            misuse of the buzzword "disenfranchise" seems to be very popular this month.

            People are only disenfranchised when a government manipulates rules so they cannot vote - poll taxes, reading tests, etc.

            Any fears of voting without a signature match might be a security issue, but not disenfranchisement.

            Most states already have recorded signatures on file which are matched at the time of voting.  Matching to an envelope requires no more work than matching to a signature card for an in-person vote.

            Bottom Line is that both FL and MI have time for revotes if their legislatures had wanted them.  Certainly time for caucuses.

        •  No one says that the FL Dems tried to stop it (0+ / 0-)

          The point is that it was going to pass regardless of what they did.  As I understand it, the paper trail bill was merged into the primary date bill as part of a compromise in which the Dems agreed not to oppose moving up the date.

          What Geller or Ring or anyone else did or didn't do in 2007 is fairly secondary at this point.  What's essential is that something must be done to have some kind of FL delegation seated in Denver.  I'm already conceding the likelihood that Obama isn't going to carry this state, but it needs to be contested if for no other reason than to help us contest a slew of House races.

          Not seating a FL delegation will do as much harm to the chances of Taddeo, Martinez, and Garcia as anything that W-S has done or won't do.

          Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

          by RFK Lives on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:01:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If you watch the video (0+ / 0-)

            you see how Geller thought that this was just sooooo funny...wink wink, nod nod....please pass this amendment, chuckle chuckle...

            So mayble Chuckles Geller should come up with the dough to re-do the primary?

            When you aim for the lowest common denominator, you rarely miss your mark... Remember, it's only a few dollars away from eccentric to insane...

            by wry twinger on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:04:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Actually lots of people (0+ / 0-)

            are saying just that - the FL Dems had no way of stopping the primary date from being moved up, so of course they didn't bother. However, if they'd made a good faith effort - which they didn't - then the DNC would most likely have just stripped half the delegates the way the RNC did, and no one would be discussing this now. The situation is so bad precisely because the FL Dems and the FDP were just as eager to move the date up as the Repubs, as their actions clearly show. The DNC has, in fact, been working with the FDP since the summer of 2007 to try to rectify the situation by offering other options, assistance, and funds so the state could have its delegates back, but the FDP wasn't interested.

            Don't trust any UID over [insert current highest number here].

            by pattyp on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 12:27:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  The party is experiencing good leadership (0+ / 0-)

        His actions have been pretty blunt . . Not seating FL or MI speaks much louder than any words ever could've spoken.

        That is not some sort of "action" he took.  At the most he has just agreed with the many others who have pointed out that under the rules the delegates selected in way that did not comport with the agreed upon rules would not qualify for credentials at the convention in the absence of some further action by the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee or by the Credentials Committee that will be established once the results of all the primary voting is in.  The way most such problems have been solved in the past is that after the winner is clear there is an agreement to seat the problem delegations in some fair way that does not upset that result.  This is a difficult case because one candidate wants to somehow use the disputed delegates to change the result.

        This idea that Dean had a temper tantrum and issued an unduly harsh "sentence" against Florida and Michigan is hogwash.  The party set up the system and it is Deans job to follow the rules like everyone else.  It is not his fault that things developed in such a way that people could argue that the unseated delegates might  control the balance.  But now that that is what seems to be developing there is no way he, or the Rules Committee could jump in without seeming to improperly influence the outcome.

        There are only two real candidates at this point.  Therefore if all (or even most) of the superdelagates were willing to follow the advice, not only of DNC Chair Dean but of the Democratic leaders in the House and Senate, to declare their preference soon after the end of the primary season then we would have a winner and would be free to seat the Florida and Michigan delegations on any reasonable basis that did not upset that decision.

        That is the way Dean (and the other party leaders) are handling this and the only people who do not seem to like it looks to be the Hillary supporters who want to leave the door open to spend all summer attacking Obama's electability and hoping someone can dig up some dirt on him.

        So I think that Dean, and the party in general, are showing leadership in calling for this to end at the end of the primaries and not is some big floor fight at the convention.

    •  actually (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Terri, Amber6541

      although I really like his outspokenness myself, I think this has been a good position for him in that he has had to learn to handle the media, lead AND hold his tongue all at the same time - and he has become quite good at it during his tenure.  It is an area that was a little weak during his campaign, and he has totally become the master of it as DNC Chair.

      One of the best things about Howard Dean IMHO, is the way he grows to meet the challenges he faces and meets them head-on.  He would have made such a great president.  Not because he was 100% "prepared" for the job when he was a candidate, but because he is so good at adapting and growing into whatever job he finds himself in.

      'The votes are in, and we won.' - Jim Webb, 11/07/2006

      by lcork on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:15:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Kos was right... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      esquimaux, jds1978, Amber6541

      ...when he said Dean should not be expected to kidnap Mark Penn and lock him in a DNC dungeon.  It would make far more sense (and be far more appropriate) to tar and feather Penn on pay-per-view, with the proceeds going to the campaigns of those down-ballot Democrats whose campaigns may have been adversely affected by Penn's antics.

    •  I hope he is letting it rip (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      puppet10, wishingwell

      but perhaps not in public, that might be more effective now.

      But I gotta say, Penn in  a dungeon sounds OK to me.

  •  The problem is not Howard Dean. The problem (25+ / 0-)

    is HRC. No one else would have held in there after 11 consecutive defeats. Her ambition is at odd with the goals of the Democratic party as a whole.

    •  Hyperbole much? (7+ / 0-)

      It's the democracy, stupid. She doesn't owe anyone anything. She has every right to stay in the race. How is that at odds with democracy? That's one of the goals of the party.

      Obama doesn't have that sense of entitlement--where do you get off having it?

      I see her chances going down the drain--and much of it is self-inflicted. But it ain't over. Right now the discord in the party is due more to the Clinton-haters than the Clintons, themselves. Y'all need to grow up.

      Well fuck it all, I'm still not leaving. I'm too goddamn mean and stubborn to be run off by a swarm of annoying insects.

      by homogenius on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was with you (16+ / 0-)

        right up to the part about the discord coming from the Clinton haters rather than the Clintons.

        I was an admirer of Senator Clinton until she started campaigning like a Republican in this race. So, no, I can't agree with you on that one.

        •  That's my problem with HRC. She has been a (16+ / 0-)

          very effective senator for NY. However, when she suggested that she and McCain't passed the CinC test, but BO did not, her ambition collided with the goals of the Democratic party. She has seriously violated the Democratic equivalent of Reagan's 11th commandment.

        •  yeah, when she started campaigning like the GOP! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ge0rge

          like, praising Ronald Reagan, oh wait . . .

          saying the republicans were the party of ideas, oh wait ...

          decrying the social security "crisis," oh wait. . .

          using misleading Harry & Louise ads to attack universal health insurance, oh wait. . .

          pandering to mining companies in an effort to win Nevada, oh wait . . .

          opposing voting rights, oh wait . . .

        •  Except for her membership in the DLC (8+ / 0-)

          and her war vote, I admired her as well.

          Sorry, Clinton supporters, but it looks to me like your gal has gone over to the dark side.  I really can't believe some of the things they have done or said.

          One of the things that drives me crazy about George Bush is that no matter what the facts are, he "stays the course."  Hillary has obviously adopted that motto as well.

          Obama has been, for the most part, Mr. Cool, Calm and Collected, providing quite a contrast.

          I'll vote for Clinton if she somehow gets the nomination - just to keep the Republicans out of the White House - but she makes doing that harder and harder every day.

          OWW4O
          (Old White Woman 4 Obama)
          OWW40's Unite!

          by Cyber Kat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:09:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  okay, so I'm not crazy (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elmo, Cyber Kat, dRefractor

            Is it just me or is anyone else of the opinion that all the blather about this "bitter fight between HRC and BO" is just that, blather?

            Is it just me or is anyone else noticing that all the bitter and contentious mudslinging is coming from HRC and NOT BO?

            Is it just me or is anyone else wondering what the last nasty comment to come out of Obama's camp was? I'm pretty sure it was the monster comment by whatshername, and she got fired the same day, right?

            Is it just me or has BO himself, and the majority of his surrogates, never once impugned HRC's character or criticized her personally? Am I wrong or have they consistently taken ONLY the high road?

            And is it just me wondering why in the hell NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT THIS?

            I know why the MSM isn't, because it isn't "conflict" and they are all about "conflict," so mentioning that BO and his peeps are consistently taking the high road and only criticizing HRC's professional record isn't gonna sell air time.

            HRC is indeed gone to the dark side, and campaigning a la Karl Rove(aka democracy's antiChrist)'s dirty playbook.

            "The greatest menace to freedom is an inert people" -- Louis Brandeis

            by cgiselle12 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:32:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  no, it's not just you (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cyber Kat

              But here's the thing: we've won, but the other guys just haven't realized it yet.

              It's much easier to be gracious in victory than it is to be gracious in defeat, although there are some people of true character who can manage this, also. Al Gore was one of them. Hillary Clinton, not so much, not so far. I hope she redeems herself before she disgraces herself much further.

      •  That's a little troubling (8+ / 0-)

        "She doesn't owe anyone anything."

        I think that sums up a serious problem with Senator Clinton's candidacy.  I agree that while it does not violate the letter of the law, I think it runs against the spirit of the law (in case of confusion: I don't actually mean law as in she should be arrested or something :-) ).  As a loyal Democrat, she owes us the courtesy of not debilitating our likely nominee.  Testing - sure, but not sliming with lies.

        That said I agree that she and her supporters have every right to keep soldiering on.  In fact if Senator Clinton would only go back to a positive tone I would even welcome it and embrace it with open arms even though this race is obviously at an end.  A positive case for Senator Clinton is very appealing to listen to - I wish her supporters would call on her to go that way instead of dragging the discourse downward; there's a lot of material there, why not give it a try?

        Give me liberty, or give me death!

        by salsa0000 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:45:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  So you don't think she owes something to (0+ / 0-)

        her country?

        I do.  If Hillary loved her country more than she loves herself, she would have bowed out gracefully by now and thrown her support to Obama.  Instead she keeps tearing down Obama, trying to change the rules and trying to steal super delegates.

        Shame on her!

    •  Don't worry. She'll cave. (7+ / 0-)

      Establishment Democrats always cave.

      Or maybe that only happens when they're forced to oppose Republicans. Against their fellow Democrats, Hell Hath No fury.

      "...And I woulda got away with it, if it hadn't been for that meddling Kos!" ---attributed to Tom DeLay

      by AdmiralNaismith on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:34:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's what the Villagers don't like (8+ / 0-)

      The State Parties are back in the mix and the National organization is back being representative of way more than D.C. insiders.  Almost all factions and localities have a seat at the table.  Gosh, it's so confusing and you actually have to work to get support.  

    •  Obama/Dean - '08 n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Terri, dmoore9504

      OWW4O
      (Old White Woman 4 Obama)
      OWW40's Unite!

      by Cyber Kat on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:12:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And who will save the party from Dean? (0+ / 0-)

      Puh'lease, the man has made a mockery out of the Democratic process.  One person, one vote, unless you live in FL and MI.  Sow hat if the legislatures in those states screwed the pooch, is that any reason to disenfranchise the citizens who happen to live there?

      There is no way that this thing will be settle ind June because there is no way that Fl and MI will be resolved by then.  And there is no way that HRC will knuckle under until that happens.  

      And you can thank Ho Dean personally for the mess that this primary is.  It isn't as though he found out yesterday that FL and MI were going to vote early.

      But put the best face on it that you want, the fact remains that Obama has STILL not been vetted fully and that there is plenty of time for surprises.  Do you really even want HRC out of the race while there is a chance that Obama could turn out to be a completely unacceptable candidate?

      •  No, you and Hillary are making a mockery (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eman

        out of the Democratic process within the Democratic party.  Rules are rules.  Hillary agreed to the rules and the consequences.  Now that she is losing, she wants to change the rules.  Sounds like what a 4-year old does, not what a mature adult does.

        And what do you think is going to make Obama a "completely unacceptable candidate"?  The fact that he is black?

        Lady, you need to look at yourself in the mirror.  I'm betting if you are honest with yourself, you will see either a bigot or a traitor (or both) looking back at you.  

        •  Funny how you assumed my gender (0+ / 0-)

          incorrectly, I might add.

          Here are some other rules that are rules.  Delegates are not required to declare their allegiance until the convention.  Presuring them to do beforehand is not a rule, although you don't seem to take issue with that.  Nor are you bothered that the popular vote, for example, is a bogus measure since caucus states do not count popular vote.

          What do I think is going to disqualify Obama?  I doubt that anything will, I merely keep open the possiblity that an unknown such as he may yet have a fatal flaw.  Once again, I am amused by your immediate resort to accusations of racism, however.  It shows your colors in a true light.

          But please, continue to lecture me on maturity and race and gender, I find it most amusing.

      •  the party cannot disenfranchise anyone (0+ / 0-)

        that is totally a function of the governmental system.

        Disenfranchise - "deprive of civil or electoral privileges"

        No one in either state was deprived of the right to vote, except those MI citizens who wished to vote for John Edwards or Barack Obama

        Vetted???  Vetted???  You have to be kidding.  Obama and Wright vetted ad nauseum.  Obama and Rezko vetted ad nauseum.  No stories there.  Obama's Tax Returns and Senate Earmarks online.

        Vetted???  Clinton vetting yet to come:
        Income Tax Returns
        Foundation Financing
        Earmarks
        NAFTA
        Bosnia
        Northern Ireland

        and you use the phrase "completely unacceptable candidate?"  LOL

        •  Precisely, FL and MI voters (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eman

          would be disenfranchised under the party's rules as they now stand.  Neither state's voters would be enjoy their electoral privileges.

          So you may think that you know everything about Obama that bears on his electability.  Bully for you.  I guess I've just seen a few more election cycles than you have and have observed too many promising candidates say or do or have revealed crippling episodes from their past to say that he is beyond such danger.  And I see no need to put all of our eggs in one basket while we still have the option of hedging our bets.

          Oh and thank you for not reflexively pulling the kind of "you're a racist" nonsense that the other responder did.

          •  Nah, I'll match you on cycles any day (0+ / 0-)

            My first one was Eisenhower-Stevenson.

            Legislatures disenfranchised, and as Howard Dean has consistently urged since day one, the state parties are welcome to come up with any acceptable system until June 3.  The rules haven't changed.

            Other states have primary beauty contests with exactly the same "bragging rights only" meaning of the two in FL and MI.  The difference is that other states then found caucus or other acceptable systems to select deligagtes within the rules.

            My state party and those of 47 others followed the rules for which all candidates approved and signed-off.  Millions and millions of voters in these 48 states should not have their legal votes disenfranchised simply because a minority wants to cheat the system for special recognition.

  •  I am sure the reporter talked to Carville (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, Terri, Debby, Tzimisce

    sometime too! ;)

    Rick
    08 Preference - Obama
    -9.63 -6.92
    Fox News - We Distort, You Deride

    by rick on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:29:41 AM PDT

  •  Its important to stand on the rules (27+ / 0-)

    We need to show that the DNC has some backbone.  On top of that, the 50 state strategy is working incredible well.  So the Dean doubters out there in the MSM need to get a clue.

    Faith and Politics from a liberal bent - Faithfully Liberal.

    by Aaron Krager on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:29:45 AM PDT

  •  Hilarious (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hyperstation

    almost sounds like Hillary

  •  Its The 50 State Strategy Stupid! (4+ / 0-)

    Obama '08 YES WE CAN
    God Bless America. God Damn George Bush

    by DFutureIsNow on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:30:07 AM PDT

  •  Yeah, it was a bad story (6+ / 0-)

    But it's from AdNags, what can you expect?

    •  Exactly. (0+ / 0-)

      I see his byline and know I'm in for a spin job.

      The question I have: Is Nagourney just easily led around by anyone willing to say negative things? Or does he have some personal agenda?

    •  Nagourney is routinely awful but somehow wrote (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell, auron renouille

      this piece a year ago, exposing John McCain's ignorance on HIV, condoms, and his own record.

      McCain "Stumbles" on HIV Prevention

      Q: "So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?"

      Mr. McCain: (Long pause) "You’ve stumped me."

      Q: "I mean, I think you’d probably agree it probably does help stop it?"

      Mr. McCain: (Laughs) "Are we on the Straight Talk express? I’m not informed enough on it. Let me find out. You know, I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was.

      Resist much, obey little. ~~Edward Abbey, via Walt Whitman

      by willyr on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:55:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dean is the DLC "killer". Gota love him... (18+ / 0-)

    n/t

    Obama or amabO, looking great whatever which way...

    by galliano on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:30:17 AM PDT

  •  I support Gov. Dean. (29+ / 0-)

    I wasn't a Deaniac (meant as a term of affection) and I had misgivings when he became head of the DNC. But I'm a believer now. The 50-state strategy is working and I support it 100% (but I like to call it the "every-district strategy").

    I think this is a crock. He's done a great job. I think he's a hero.

    Well fuck it all, I'm still not leaving. I'm too goddamn mean and stubborn to be run off by a swarm of annoying insects.

    by homogenius on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:30:25 AM PDT

  •  please vote in this CNN dean poll! (12+ / 0-)

    http://www.cnn.com/...

    thanks to diarist joregepoemas for catching it.

    John Cornyn is an asshole with shoes. Support Rick Noriega!

    by anna on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:30:51 AM PDT

  •  I deeply respect Dr. Dean (9+ / 0-)

    for the 50 state strategy, and for his apparent insistence on Florida and Michigan following the rules, and although I think he's doing the right things in terms of the Clinton/Obama primary wars, I can't help wishing that he would take a firmer leadership tone in terms of dealing with the Clintons' willingness to burn the party to the ground on their way (back) to the White House.

  •  Dean is the father of the 50 states strategy... (19+ / 0-)

    ... some people get the Nobel Prize for less than that.

    Obama or amabO, looking great whatever which way...

    by galliano on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:31:46 AM PDT

  •  Or both (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, myeye, Brooke In Seattle

    either have their own agenda, or they're just really stupid.

    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.Voltaire-1694-1778 GO Cubs!

    by ebbinflo on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:32:04 AM PDT

  •  What does this remind me of? (6+ / 0-)

    Oh, right...seven years of meaningless "rebukes" from Democratic Senators to President Bush, every time he did the decider thing in a way they didn't like.

    Sometimes he was even stubborn about it, failed to call various people to try to work out disputes, failed to take urgent action to restore peace, and people were dismayed with his performance.

    And did the media write stories accusing him of poor leadership and tut-tutting about whether he had any political skills or stature? Or did they call that, "Winning"?

    Go Dean!  But be careful--if the Clinton camp gets any more frustrated, they might write you a strongly worded letter!

    "...And I woulda got away with it, if it hadn't been for that meddling Kos!" ---attributed to Tom DeLay

    by AdmiralNaismith on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:32:12 AM PDT

  •  I wonder how many words they bothered to change (8+ / 0-)

    from the Clinton campaign press release before going to print.

    "Tough talk is not a substitute for sound judgment." --Barack Obama

    by Jim in Chicago on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:32:40 AM PDT

  •  A better poll would be (7+ / 0-)

    How do you feel the traditiona media is doing reporting on the Democratic primaries?

    Oh wait, we know the answer to that already: shitty.

    "I'm not writing to make conservatives happy. I want them to hate my opinions. I'm not interested in debating them. I want to stop them." - Steve Gilliard

    by grog on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:32:50 AM PDT

  •  Dean, in the LA Times today (9+ / 0-)

    WASHINGTON -- Citing Democratic rules, national committee Chairman Howard Dean on Tuesday said that the superdelegates who are poised to select the party's presidential nominee are free to back whomever they wish at the end of the primaries, regardless of who leads in the popular vote or pledged delegates.

    "They should use whatever yardstick they want," Dean said in an interview at party headquarters. "That's what the rules provide for."

    Asked about Hillary Rodham Clinton's suggestion that superdelegates should exercise independent judgment and not feel bound by the standings after June 3 -- the day the nominating season ends -- Dean replied: "That's what the rules say, and I enforce the rules."

    more...

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:15 AM PDT

  •  Super Delegates Have An EZ Choice Obama or McCain (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    If they answer Obama, they better get off their ass and endorse now, Obama is wasting time and money on Hillary that could be best used to organize key states and take it hard and early to McCain.

    If its McCain then just keep doing what you are doing, be irrelevant and hand the GOP another 8 years in the WH.

    Obama '08 YES WE CAN
    God Bless America. God Damn George Bush

    by DFutureIsNow on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:21 AM PDT

    •  You must not be following Obama (0+ / 0-)

      very closely because he has switched from focusing on Hillary to focusing on McCain.  This is something that Hillary might want to try.  

      What's the definition of insanity?  Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome?  Why hasn't she learned that going negative has done nothing but hurt her?  Oh, I know...because that's all she has left if she wants to win the nomination.  On the other hand if she wants to maintain her reputation and standing in the Democratic party, she needs to knock it off now.  She is perilously close to going too far.

  •  Howard Dean gave the party a spine (15+ / 0-)

    His leadership has been awesome. He is a leader that actually leads, rather than a fundraising cheerleading spineless tool of Clinton machine.

  •  The failure to disclose Lowry's contributions (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, Danno11, Debby, willyr, wishingwell

    That's really become typical of the New York Times, hasn't it? I mean, maybe they'd be better off calling him Curveball, or referring to him as an anonymous source in a baseball cap.

  •  We will win because... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vancookie, wishingwell, myeye

    ... the DLC is full of beans and we are full of Dean!

    Obama or amabO, looking great whatever which way...

    by galliano on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:33:51 AM PDT

  •  The DLC Types Like Hillary Don't Like Dean (7+ / 0-)

    because he is people oriented, process oriented, and forward thinking.

    Hillary, Billary, Rahhhhhhhhhhhhhhm, Schumer, and the other Shrummies want only to preserve the palace guard and to gain power and stature.

    I hope Howard Dean tells the whiners to kiss off.

    Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

  •  "What was he supposed to do, (4+ / 0-)

    kidnap Mark Penn?"

    While I don't reject the idea out of hand, I fear the result would be eerily reminiscient of  O. Henry's The Ransom of Red Chief.

    Saying, "The surge is working" . . . is working my last nerve.

    by Crashing Vor on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:36:31 AM PDT

  •  The future of the party (14+ / 0-)

    I guess we shouldn't be surprised that the DC power brokers and their NY enablers keep shrieking inconsolably as their stranglehold over the Democratic Party rapidly ebbs away.  Howard Dean and Barack Obama represent the future that our party has always been promised - a robust, national presence that engages and takes seriously every person in every state of this land of ours.  I am proud to be a Democrat when I hear Chairman Dean and Senator Obama speak and act.

    Give me liberty, or give me death!

    by salsa0000 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:38:31 AM PDT

  •  God gave us Dean, she gave John Yoo to the Reps (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    Each his own!

    Obama or amabO, looking great whatever which way...

    by galliano on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:39:34 AM PDT

  •  Dean is leading and following rules (10+ / 0-)

    I would ask what part of that the Beltway doesn't understand...but it would be rhetorical. They don't understand any of it or Howard Dean.

    My only regret about Howard Dean being DNC chair is I want him for president! Some Deaniacs never really go away!

  •  Goooooo Howard! (7+ / 0-)

    Don't let Karen Thurman snow you or us. She told us in Florida that everything would work out for skipping ahead with the Jan. 29 primary. She lied. This walk back routine ain't working, chick.

    -7.38, -5.23 One day we ALL will know the truth about the 2000 presidential election. God help us all.

    by CocoaLove on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:39:39 AM PDT

  •  If Penn and Ferraro were in a basement.. (0+ / 0-)

    they would create this

    http://images.search.yahoo.com/...

    "eeyeah Hi..eeyeah..Id like you to go ahead and support Obama" Bill Lumbergh-Office Space

    by girlyman on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:39:41 AM PDT

  •  The very second I saw this headlineI (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mogolori, vetfordean, SallyCat, esquimaux

    I KNEW 1000 percent the author had to be Adam Nagourney. That is all he ever, ever, ever writes - the Dems are in conflict, oh my God, there is no unity. Kos, tell us again why you like this creep?

    Z tego też powodu sądzę, że jeśli Hillary zostanie kandydatką Demokratów, nie wygra wyborów.

    by gladkov on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:39:45 AM PDT

    •  Nagourney Writes Slimey, Snarky, Nasty Stuff, but (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mogolori

      look on the bright side: he has to look in the mirror every day. What does he see? A face that stops clocks, sitting on top of a 4'10" manly frame, underpinned by a doughy pantload. As you say, gladkov, he only sings an off-tune one-line song.

      Live Free or Die Bold

      by vetfordean on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:53:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not sure what he's been doing behind the scenes.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, Amber6541

    ...and I like him so I'm willing to believe he's been working to get this thing resolved. He knows the potential downside to denying either candidate the nomination if the public perception is that it was done as a smokefilled room deal. He hears the pitter patter of Sharpton and Jackson's little feet.

    Maybe his efforts have been more effective than we even know, but I sure would like to see more fruits than I have so far. I've been an admirer of his since 2003, was a Deaniac in 2004, and an ardent defender of his ever since.

    And I know the Clintons are consumed with their personal agenda that bringing them around is a torturous task. That said, Dean has a party to think about, and somehow or other this election, which should have been a sure thing, is now looking very, very challenging. And if the party implodes, it'll be his name at the head of it when the history books record what happened.

    Sometimes ya' have to bring out the ol' cattle prod. I never thought he'd be afraid to use one. Still waiting.

    •  He's abiding by the rules (8+ / 0-)

      Still, the chairman rejected the notion that he or any other party leader -- Pelosi, Reid, former Vice President Al Gore or former President Carter -- could step in and unilaterally end the nominating contest.

      "Name one person in the last 40 years who's done that," Dean said, leaning forward in his chair. "There's no power in the DNC to make people do things that the rules don't prescribe."

      link

      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:43:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  smoke filled rooms (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Anton Sirius, myeye, milkbone, Amber6541

      If you like the idea of democracy, you have to get used to not having things go your way sometimes. If we can agree that we don't want the decisions being made in back rooms, that we want an open transparent government we can respect, we have to accept these processess being slow and messy. If Dean "fixes" the election, even with our own preferred result, we've lost.
      Congradulations to Dean -- may he stay strong and clear-headed.

      Government didn't get smaller under the Republicans; it just lost its stature.

      by Andhakari on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:25:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  First they said he was too prominent (8+ / 0-)

    and now they say he's too low-key.  When Howard first was elected DNC Chair, he worked to play a role with Reid and Pelosi to formulate policy, but he was pushed aside pretty quickly - at least publicly - and told his job was to operate the DNC and, essentially, stay out of the policy side.  So he set about implementing his 50-state strategy and we know what the results of that have been and continue to be.  Now they're complaining about his "low-key" style.  Give me a break.

    Howard knows he needs to work behind the scenes and that's what he is doing. There are not so many people around who are as smart, sensible and principled as Howard Dean.  I'm with him every step of the way as he declines to kiss the ass of the establishment Democratic party, led by none other than the Clintons.

  •  Rock on Chairman Dean! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Debby, SallyCat, wishingwell

    50 state strategy sure lookin' good now!

    "Hope" is the thing with feathers-that perches in the soul-and sings the tune without the words-and never stops-at all. Emily Dickinson

    by juslikagrzly on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:43:00 AM PDT

  •  Trying to recall why I read the NYT (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cgiselle12

    It is increasingly difficult to read, save Frank Rich and a very few others...I may have to rethink that subscription.  It's not good for the bloodpressure lately.

    "Those dunes are to the Midwest what the Grand Canyon is to Arizona and the Yosemite is to California." - Carl Sandburg

    by Critical Dune on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:43:12 AM PDT

  •  I would love to hear (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Debby, SallyCat

    from some of those people voting "no" on the poll in this thread.

  •  what an incredibly hard-hitting response (8+ / 0-)

    We did such a good job, crashing their gate, they just figured it out.

    After we have effectively succeeded.

    In 2000, I asked a friend - who has money - what could I do go help Gore get elected? he said, Nothing, you don't really have the money, so you don't really count in the party.

    Howard changed all that.

    There is in fact a revolution going on right now.  It's us, the people, for and by ourselves and our country, taking it back, one voter registration at a time.

    Maybe there is enough true grit left to rebuild the economy and restore the Constitution.

    Maybe.

  •  Howard Dean has my vote and my support... (8+ / 0-)

    I thought he was a great American and supported him when he ran for the Democratic nominee and I still think he is a great American who has completely changed the face of the Democratic party.  Good for him for not allowing others to screw up this good karma.

  •  Dean Plays By the Rules (8+ / 0-)

    That's why he's my guy.

    If more DC politicians did the same, more voters would believe that Congress was doing their job.

    Kos writes -

    If the supers come out in force and side with Obama, this thing is over. If they side with Clinton, this thing is over.

    Yep!  Some things are that simple in fact-based reality.

  •  Dean has been perfect so far... (7+ / 0-)

    let the process play out. MI and FL can re-vote and still be seated. But do not seat the delegates as they now stand.

    The Super D's will quickly get behind the one who is ahead in June. Everyone has to calm down and let the process work. The most important outcome is that both sides feel they had a fair chance and that the nominee earned it by votes, not by back-room deals.

  •  It's the newest NYT meme... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, futurebird

    Since attacking Obama directly hasn't resulted in his total meltdown - the next target is the architect of the strategy he;'s using...and when that fails, all bets are off.

    About the only thing you won't hear is "It's all Clinton's fault"

  •  Um, a string of Dem victories (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SallyCat, wishingwell, futurebird
    ...is that what has these guys so upset at Dean?  Because of the implied comparison with the Penn/McAuliffe style of losing again and again and again?
  •  Next time around... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    gotta shorten the front end of the campaign.

    I guarantee that the press will begin primping potential non incumbent candidates as early as march, 2009.

    Also, had either candidate protested adhering to the decision on FL or Michigan when it was made, it'd be different. Retroactively complaining because one's campaign isn't going the right way is where it ain't.

    I dig Dean. He's what Rendell wasn't.
    :)

    :::::

    ...Operation Rota is Closed... New Blog Coming Soon With Pictures!...

    by nowheredesign on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:47:38 AM PDT

  •  I was against Dean, you(Markos) and all Deaniacs (9+ / 0-)

    I was against Dean, you(Markos) and all Deaniacs from the begining.

    I warned that you all were going to destroy the Party and that Dean was unelectable.

    I might have been right about the latter, I'm not so sure anymore.

    But I was surely wrong about the former. Dr. Dean has done a freaking fantastic job as DNC chair, and the 50 State strategy is the foundation he has built.

    I can't see how anyone can disagree with the results since Dean has taken over. And look at the way Obama is running his campaign.

    It's not a sign of weakness to learn from a mistake. It's a sign of stupidity to keep doing the same things over and over without ever learning~Dave Dial

    by DAVE DIAL on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:48:49 AM PDT

  •  Howard Dean is STILL Pissing off the DLC ... (9+ / 0-)

    establishment and I, for one, say  GOOD FOR HOWARD DEAN!!!

    it is a given that the DLC wing of our party absolutely HATES the '50 state strategy'....  it is what has allowed Senator Obama to run a credible race against the establishment annointed "winner" HRC....    that she didn't make good on the 'inevitability' label has everything to do with Dean and his incredibly brilliant Idea to RE-build our party operations on the ground FROM the ground up and to do it IN EVERY STATE IN OUR UNION... from the east coast to the west coast with ALL stops inbetween.

    We know this is exactly what the DLC wing DIDNT want because they keep calling so many of our 50 states IRRELEVANT.

    What makes me (and hubby) laugh is that the DLCer's thought, by aiding the repubs with the DEAN SCREAM lynching they were getting rid of Mr Dean (and his growing netroots following) but all they did was free him up to take on the job of fixing our party before WE took on the job of fixing our government.

    Hubby was one tight-fisted dude when it came to political donations but he was ready and happy to open our joint checkbook when it came to funding Howard Dean's 50 state strategy... he is the first  to agree that it was money WELL spent.

    "THE SURGE IS WORKING" is the 2008 replacement for "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"

    by KnotIookin on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:49:40 AM PDT

  •  Oh Nooooeees! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rolfyboy6, AdmiralNaismith, Debby, ge0rge

    If only we'd replaced him with Harold Ford Junior.

    The Devil crept into Heaven, God slept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on September 11 - IT

    by tomaxxamot on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:49:42 AM PDT

  •  who also openly mocked the dnc re Fl and MI (0+ / 0-)

    oh, that's right, Kos, before he backed Obama

  •  92% of DKos readers (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Andhakari

    approve of Dean's leadership.  Dean and the rest of the democratic leadership should consider the reasons for such a high approval and those implications for the democratic party as a whole!

    "circular firing squad" rhetoric = IOKIYAAD

    by pullbackthecurtain on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:50:40 AM PDT

  •  Absolutely resoundingly YES! (0+ / 0-)

    Once again I state:
    Rules R Rules!

    St. Ronnie was an asshole.

    by manwithnoname on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:50:42 AM PDT

  •  How could anyone have a problem with Dean? (5+ / 0-)

    When you look at what the Democratic Party looks like now, compared to what it looked like before he became chairmain, how could you?

    "No! Ne'er was mingled such a draught In palace, hall or arbor, As freemen brewed and tyrants quaffed, That night in Boston Harbor" - Oliver Wendell Holmes

    by Boston to Salem on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:52:02 AM PDT

  •  New PPL Poll shows Obama lead in PA (0+ / 0-)

    http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot....

    This just seems totaly unlikely to me.

  •  A question for state party chairs: (11+ / 0-)

    Do you want to return to the days of centralized DNC control of all party resources? The days of Terry McAuliffe calling the shots and divvying up the cash among his pals?

    Then let the Clinton camp oust Howard Dean.

    kos, a question for you...

    How do you get your (formerly) progressive friends in the blogosphere like Jerome, jeralyn and even BTD to recommit to the 50-state strategy? It seems they've all but abandoned it this time around.

    So much for crashing the gate, eh?

    And combine this NYT hit piece on Dean with the long history of the Clintonites trying to oust him (Carville, Begala, Emanuel, the DLC asshats) with news of Bill's blow-up with superdelegates in California, and we have to be asking the superdelegates... Is this what you want to return to?

    What we're seeing is the final struggle to define the party as the Clinton Party or the Democratic Party, regardless of what one thinks of Obama.

    As if the Democratic Party is here to serve the needs of the Clintons and their hangers-on...

    •  Even if your support for Obama is tepid (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      myeye, ge0rge, Andhakari, Amber6541

      (like me) the above comment is the way of it.  

      What Dean is doing is for the future of the Party well beyond the Presidential race and well beyond 2008.  This is about all kinds of Party reform still to be done.  This is about getting the kind of Congressional candidates needed for the big structural reforms this country is going to need all too soon.  Those who over concentrate on the presidential race need to look at the big picture and the long picture.  Dean needs our support for the continued democratic reform of the Party.  One item:  reform of the primary mess of schedule and less than admirable methodologies in certain states.

    •  Hear hear! (0+ / 0-)

      Hillary Clinton: Running on Fumes!

      by Yoshimi on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:33:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  a thousand times yes! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    myeye, CParis, Andhakari, Amber6541

    Dean is doing EXACTLY what he should be doing, imho. Enforcing the rules, not taking sides, letting the process play out on its own.

    I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you
    But I get the feeling that you don't like it
    What's with all the screaming?

    by Leggy Starlitz on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:52:58 AM PDT

  •  50 state strategy (13+ / 0-)

    is working here in Colorado. There are thousands like me who have been "closet" democrats who are now active, enthusiastic and proud.

  •  Big Donors can whine but here he has a 90 (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, esquimaux, Andhakari, Amber6541

    percent plus approval rating. I hope he stays around until 2012.

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. - Mahatma Gandhi (-8.12,-7.49)

    by pleasedontbefake on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:53:47 AM PDT

  •  Dean (0+ / 0-)

    failed to hold an inclusive primary for the party of which he is national chair. A failure in leadership. Period. And while there may be enough blame to spread around (FL and MI legislatures anyone?), it's clear that the chairman dropped the ball.

    Query: If "the rules are the rules," where is the foundation for the argument that the superdelegates must follow the 'popular vote.'

    On a somewhat unrelated note, I can't seem to find a diary on this news story:

    http://news.yahoo.com/...

    Curious.

    Flame away.

  •  If you support Dean (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, Debby, myeye

    click the link in my signature and buy a Democracy Bond. I support Dean's 50 State Strategy. Besides, the DNC is behind the RNC in fundraising. So give Dean some monthly green.

  •  Dean's job (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rolfyboy6, esquimaux, kiki236, Amber6541

    is like being the family therapist to a couple; one of whom is an alcoholic. He has to talk to both of them as though they were rational, wanting their family to be happy, but he knows that nothing good is going to happen until the boozer gives up the bottle, and that that won't happen until she hits bottom.
    Dean is trying to be impartial, and ease the way.
    Obama is trying to get on with his life and protect his family, the Democratic Party.
    Hillary just needs to wake up in the gutter or the drunk tank, get a loving intervention, and commit herself to a long 12 step program beginning with admitting her powerlessness over ambition.
    The sooner it happens, the better, but no one can force it.

    Government didn't get smaller under the Republicans; it just lost its stature.

    by Andhakari on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:55:04 AM PDT

  •  After all these years, I'm still a Deaniac (7+ / 0-)

    The '04 primary was the first primary I ever paid attention to, and even then I wasn't technically a Democrat. But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have decided to be one if it weren't for the changes in the party Dean has fostered.

    His good ideas and strategies have been such a positive force in the party, and have taken it in a direction that made it nonsensical for me to continue as a registered independent.

    Good work, Dr. Dean!

    100-foot tall robotic Obama vs. mini-Ditka. Who wins?

    by droogie6655321 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:55:12 AM PDT

    •  You betcha (6+ / 0-)

      2004 made me a Democrat. Maybe for life.

      Want superdelegates who listen? Rita Moran for DNC. We need your support!

      by Eddie in ME on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:02:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It wasn't an easy decision (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        anna, Eddie in ME, Debbie in ME

        I spent months considering it. But I said to myself that if I were to make this commitment, it would be for life -- and it would almost certainly require me to cast a vote or two that I wasn't happy with.

        But I made the decision and I never looked back. And even if I have to vote for Hillary Clinton, after the way she has comported herself, I won't have any regrets.

        100-foot tall robotic Obama vs. mini-Ditka. Who wins?

        by droogie6655321 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:05:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  2008 (0+ / 0-)

      We should be discussing the reelection of President Howard Dean right now. Past and current operatives of the Clintons and the DLC bushwhacked Dean in 2003 before Iowa. I'm not saying that Dean has a vendetta - I really believe he's a man of principals and wouldn't stoop so low. But what is sowed needs to be reaped.

      The rules were not made by Howard Dean, but his integrity ensures they will be followed. I'm a member of the Democratic Party that supports him.

  •  fuck the beltway! (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, Rolfyboy6, Debby, myeye, Kdoug

    It's not a campaign. It's a movement. Will you stand up?

    by danthrax on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:55:27 AM PDT

  •  "Some people" ought to pay some more attention (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, Debby, myeye

    to how the we did in Idaho and all the other states the beltway's ignored for years.

  •  You say this like it's a bad thing. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IndySteve, Debby, esquimaux, futurebird

    What was he supposed to do, kidnap Mark Penn as he urged the Clinton campaign to go negative and lock him away in some dungeon in the basement of DNC headquarters?

    Love that "power of the purse!" It looks so nice up there on the mantle (and not the table) next to the "subpoena power."

    by Sacramento Dem on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:56:59 AM PDT

  •  I hope that the writer, Adam Nagourney, (0+ / 0-)

    has his DLC membership dues waived for this year.
    I especially enjoyed the part where he considers Terry McCauliffe and Ron Brown exceptional DNC Chairmen.  No where does he mention that we lost Senate and Congress seats during their tenures.

    Adam Nagourney:  Today's worst shill of the DAYYYyyy!

    (Sorry KO, I had to do it.

    In 2006, we replaced the rethuglicans with Democrats.  In 2008, we will replace the democrats with BETTER Democrats.

  •  After that diary, how could you not vote "yes" (0+ / 0-)

    in the poll question?

    It is the province of knowledge to speak And it is the privilege of wisdom to listen. Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. US Jurist

    by Oliver W Holmes the 3rd on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:58:01 AM PDT

  •  i've always supported dean - it's the DLC (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Debby, futurebird, Andhakari, Amber6541

    that doesn't.  and that's coming to the limelight in this election... i hope he sticks to his guns and doesn't give them a quarter.

  •  Howard Dean Should resign (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kevinmac1231

    It is completely outrageous that over a million people went to the polls in Florida and Michigan with the situation unresolved.

    The role of the DNC Chair is to lead.  

    His actions with respect to Florida and Michigan show a complete abdication of leadership, and this long time Vermont Resident who voted for Dean for Governor three times will NEVER forgive him.

  •  Kos writes "Another attack..." (0+ / 0-)

    and then asks you to vote in agreement with him...lemmings.

  •  Dean is one of the best things that could (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, Debby, myeye, esquimaux, Amber6541

    have happened to the Democratic party.  He decided it should be a national party with national relevance.  What do you know?  It is!!!

    And where does this "hands off" crap come from?

    Hmmmm....

    He changed the whole approach of the party to that little teeny part of the country that isn't on the coast.

    He stood up to Florida and Michigan when they tried to make the nominating process even more insane than it already is.

    He has acted with passion, conviction, and integrity.

    Well, sure, that'll get you some hate in DC, but -- love in other places.

    With regard to the campaigns, he should be hands off.  Somebody is going to lose the nomination.  That candidate and his or her supporters should know that they had every chance to win and -- just plain didn't.

    Long after news from the nominating process fades, those supporters will remember getting shafted if, indeed, they do get strong-armed. That can hurt in the general -- even more than a nasty fight for the nomination.

    Dean is going just exactly what he should.  More power to him.

    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

    by dinotrac on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:02:28 AM PDT

  •  The interesting thing about letting (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Debby, lysias, myeye, Amber6541

    this play out is that Hill and Bill are showing us more than they really wanted us to know.  Hill has shown terrible judgment in her staffing.  We already have over 7 years of such hideousness, do we want more?  Mark Penn is a dc insider, a crony.  Do we want a dc populated with more of same?

    She has a win at all costs attitude.  Would this work in Iraq?  Would she be better than the current occupant who also has a win at all cost attitude?

    And vetting.  God knows if Hill and her staff were good at ferreting out info on BO.  But what they did find they tried to attach implications to.  I 'spect that the repubs, al la Rove, will try to attack BO on his strength.  Probably more about his charisma and how people who like him are really cultish and some such.  People really like being told they are stupid.  That will work (snark).

  •  Howard Dean is the man (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, Debby, myeye, Amber6541

    He has my full support, and judging from the results of the poll, he was the overwhelming support of the netroots as well!

    I love the job he's done, and have a ton of respect for the man and what he accomplished in Vermont and at the DNC.  He understands what the party wants at the grassroots level, and understands that it is the future of the party.  And I still say he'd be an amazing president.

    F the Beltway, and F the old-school, entrenched journalists who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

  •  Waaah!!! Big money donors want to feel like they (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nevsky42, anna, lysias, myeye, Amber6541

    are more in charge of the democratic party!

    Cry me a fucking river.

    "There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it. Always." -- Mahatma Gandhi

    by duha on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:06:13 AM PDT

  •  What do you expect.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, myeye

    from a Clinton shill like Adam Nagourney? Anybody who reads the NYT knows he's in the tank for Hillary. He's done as much to keep the Clinton "this is a close race" narrative going as Judith Miller did to keep the Bush "they've got WMD's" story alive. The only reason to read the crap this guy is peddling is if you are in a good enough mood to laugh at it.

  •  Dean: Good job. Thurman: Poor job. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anna, Amber6541

    The fact that she can't field candidates in all the Congressional races is pretty much all you need to know about Karen Thurman. In the watershed midterm of 2006, in the bluest of red states, in a year in which the stated goal was saturation candidacy, she coudl't field a full slate.

    My question, though, is whether she has her superdelegate seat intact and wehther the Dems in the legislature do. If you want to punish someone, punish them. If you want to say the presidential vote was too early in FL, don't allow the FL delegation to vote for president.

    But seat the delegation.

    That said, Dean has done a great job and should be retained for another four years. The 50-state strategy was long overdue, and the good doctor is if anything a better "respond on your feet" spokesman for our interests than we've seen in my lifetime.

    I bow to no one in my disdain for the DLC, only sad about their decline because I so liked referring to the man as Al Fromage and enver get a chance to any more. But let us not forget that prior to running for president, Howard Dean was a poster boy for the DLC. If they had had the moral courage, or maybe courageous morals might be more appropriate, to embrace Dean's candidacy in 2000, well, maybe Dean could have won the nomination and the presidency.

    Have you heard? The vice president's gone mad. - Bob Dylan, 1966

    by textus on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:07:41 AM PDT

  •  Screw Florida (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eigenlambda, Amber6541

    The chairman of the Florida Democratic Party, Karen Thurman, said she could not recall the last time Mr. Dean had called her to try work out the dispute. She and other Florida Democrats are to meet with Mr. Dean on Wednesday to try to persuade him to agree to a compromise.

    How 'bout this for a compromise-- Florida should never be allowed to vote in a national election ever again. Florida just can't seem to refrain from fucking it up for the rest of the country.

    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world.

    by cybersaur on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:08:31 AM PDT

    •  the proper response for that (0+ / 0-)

      is fuck you.

      You are in the company of Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris in your desire that Florida Democrats not have the right to vote.

      Yes, this state is screwed up. But if a dem can replace Tom DeFuckingLay in TX-22, we can fix what's wrong here.

      Again, disenfranchise the ones who caused it to happen. Fine by me. As in don't seat our supers if they were part of the decision.

      Dean is doing a fine job. I don't even really disagree with the action. I just think it is ained at the wrong people, and is too broad. Seat our delegates. Let them vote on rules, on platform, on credentials, on vice president.

      Then work with us to put FL back in the Dem column in November. Right now, you are working against us.

      Have you heard? The vice president's gone mad. - Bob Dylan, 1966

      by textus on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 12:50:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  John Yoo (0+ / 0-)

    For those of you as outraged by the work of John Yoo at the Department of Justice might want to let him and the respective Deans of the University of California Berkeley School of Law know your displeasure as I did. Here are their emails - including Professor Yoo's: Cut and paste as you wish....

    alumni@law.berkeley.edu, jsp@uclink4.berkeley.edu, admissions@law.berkeley.edu, edley@law.berkeley.edu, hshelanski@law.berkeley.edu, jsimon@law.berkeley.edu, lepstein@law.berkeley.edu, jyoo@law.berkeley.edu

    http://www.law.berkeley.edu/...

    •  Yoo doesn't care (0+ / 0-)

      One article on his post there also had the idea that no one would dare give him the boot. It is funny that the neocons assail academia but then try to hide behind the very institutions they complain about.
      It is almost Borkian, as when Bork, after years of complaining about frivolous lawsuits filed one himself following an alleged fall.

  •  Carville said Clinton(s) wanted Wesley Clark (0+ / 0-)

    Carville said, "I think the Clintons want Wesley Clark," for the post which Dean got. Which is something to watch. He said it on the McLoughlen Group show as the appointment was coming up.

  •  Well I thought the article was a bit more (0+ / 0-)

    2 sided than kos is admitting here.  Some of the comments by Dean and supporters is pretty good.

    However.  Indeed the Times should have done a MUCH better job of indicating who some of the "talkers" were like kos has done here.  It's surface balanced for the casual reader but because of the parts they left out it really is a hatchett job on Dean because the anti-Dean side was given too much credit whereas a good article would have shown some of the tarnish on their reputations.

    Thanks for bringing out the guns kos and letting us know who these "experts" are.

  •  one thing has become crystal clear that no matter (0+ / 0-)

    who wins the nomination or the general election any pie in the sky ideas about unity in the nation are that with whipped cream. The democratic party will never unify behind one of the nominees, there is just too much divisiveness being spread in the blogs, and that is now being expanded to include anyone who is not with any particular faction.

    pathetic. Was a great concept, but obviously we cannot transcend ourselves, as for discipline, everything they have ever said about the ability for the democrats to  conntinue to shoot themselves in both feet is true in spades this time around.  Too many different people with too many different agendas.

    •  The blogs divided the nation? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Libby Shaw, Amber6541

      I thought it was divided rather completely before the internet and its tubes were even invented or were even a sparkle in Al Gore's eye. I thought this great class war began with St Ronald the Impervious.

      •  this great class and race war began with the (0+ / 0-)

        twinkle in Thomas Jefferson's eye.  The great hope of the blogosphere, at least that is how I remember it when i first got sucked down the tubes, was around the time DK came into existence and we all proclaimed oursleves to be citizen journalists out to clean the Augean stables of their accumulated filth.

        Sadly we all seem to have turned into tabloid television junkies, trading barbs and sources from the opposing views of Keith Olberman and Chris Matthews (who appear to have switched sides by the way).

        As I said, pathetic.  Maybe I'm wrong, it probably started back in BC when monkeys swung down from the jungle panoply.

    •  With due respect (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Amber6541

      I strongly disagree.  If anyone has divided this nation it is George W. Bush.  If anyone has divided the Democratic Party, it is those serving in Congress who let W. get away with bloody hell for seven years.  The D.C. Democrats including Carville, with its 8 year losing streak, has no credibility with outside D.C. life long, straight D voting, yellow dogs like me. Some of these folks, quite frankly strike me more like Republican Lites than they do Democrats. I will even go a step further by suggesting that Bill Clinton's era of White House scandals threw open the door for the worst President ever, and that would be W., to become President of this once great, moral and powerful country.

      We would not even be having this conversation were it not for the blogosphere.   W. would have continued to get away with bloody murder were it not for the blogs.  The blogs have outed the true evil doers in our nation and their tacit enablers in the mainstream media.  

      •  you certainly will not get any argument from (0+ / 0-)

        me that George W. Bush will in all probability go down in history as worse president ever, if he does not there is no justice.

        You would, if I had the time or inclination get plenty of argument that the starry eyed view of America as a 'once great, moral and powerful country' is vastly over simplified. Even in the 20th century i did not consider the actions in Vietnam and Central and South America particularly moral, and as for actions during the 18th and 19th century we would have to be sitting opposite each other for a year and a day before we even scratched the surface of immoral actions and abuse of power.

        You would also get an argument that the blogs allow us to have a 'conversation', what we, in the collective WE, have is mostly, not wholly, a cacophany of voices each shouting over the other.

        However, this kind of debate is impossible in the limited arena of one blog because it would immediately deteriorate into cherrypicking anecdotes of I say, you say.

        MY view was intended to be a little broader and my focus a little longer than the evil deeds of George W.  Basically my view of america's history is greately influenced by Howard Zinn, and that too is greatly simplified.

        Nice chatting anyway.

  •  Dean & Kos Rock! (0+ / 0-)

    I love everything about this diary- cheers to the 50 STATE strateegurie!

  •  Kos said the article is stupid, but... (0+ / 0-)

    Kos:
    "Clinton's remarks may have been a rebuke to Dean, but who cares? If the supers come out in force and side with Obama, this thing is over. If they side with Clinton, this thing is over."

    It is probably true that if the supers come out in force and side with Obama, this thing is over.

    But it is not true that "if (the supers) side with Clinton, this thing is over."

    How do I know that second statement by Kos is not true? Because Kos told me so.

    He's been confidentally predicting that if the superdelegates go over the heads of the delegates and pick Clinton instead of Obama--there will be a kind of civil war in the Dem party.

    If that happens, it's not "over." The article on Dean may "stupid" for some other reason, but the point Kos made is not well taken.

    Bill Prendergast also posts his stupid satire at the Stillwater Tribune

    by Bill Prendergast on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:13:33 AM PDT

    •  civil war != reversal (0+ / 0-)

      You find a contradiction where none exists, because you are equating rebellion with a reversal of the nomination.

      If the supers side with Clinton, the nomination contest is over, as Kos said. But that does not mean there will not be a kind of civil war in the party. Such a thing would not be directed at reversing the nomination -- it would be too late for that -- but rather at forcing the party to accept some necessary reforms.

  •  Timing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    This article is nothing more than the Clintons thrashing around looking for a scapegoat. Obama is closing the gap in PA, so look for the Clintons are ramping up the rhetoric about FL and MI.

    Hopefully, this will be the "last throes" of the DLC. Good riddance.

  •  The Gray Lady. (0+ / 0-)

    She sits in her duchy and judges the rabble.  It's all the news the elites see fit to print.

    The New York Times really is a mouthpiece for monied and entrenched interests.  I am hardly surprised by that given its perch atop one of the wealthiest cities in the world.  However- one shouldn't think that because they are liberal that they are progressive.  This is just another in a countless stream of examples as to why the New York Times doesn't give a fig about Democrats that don't make six figures.

    "And we will remember this when we are old and ancient, though the specifics might be vague..."- The Decemberists, "July, July"

    by electricgrendel on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:14:51 AM PDT

    •  ONe shouldn't think they are liberal. Period. (0+ / 0-)

      Even though typically snotty conservatives and media-believing moderates will look down on you for truthfully pointing out its not liberal with examples of actual content from the paper.  

      I mean everyone knows the NYT is liberal.  Someone said they're not???  Well, did you ever???

      The only place where Republicans are anywhere close to responsible is in the dictionary.

      by DemDachshund on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:32:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Lots of Dean attackers at Huff Post. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anotherdemocrat, Amber6541

    Well, mostly one or two posters who post the same bullshit on every thread that has anything to do with the Democratic primaries, particularly the ones that point out that Hillary can't win.  Yep, they're either stupid, or they have their own agenda.  I guess the latter, but that doesn't rule out the former.

    If I were the DNC chairman, I would cancel the Denver convention and hold it in a high school gym in Detroit with no air conditioning three days after the last primary is held.  We'd have our nominee that afternoon and all this BS would be over.  Mess with me, will ya.

  •  $20.08? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    saguaro

    should we send the good doctor some monetary love?

  •  Dean must be good if Hill & Bill don't like him (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    trinite, BA BarackUS
    •  But Bill was the only Dem Pres who won lately! (0+ / 0-)

      So therefore he can't be wrong, we can't criticize his capitulation politics, and we have to imitate him every step of the way or we'll never win!!! Because I"m just conveniently assuming the electorate is as immobily center-right as it was in the 90's!!!  

      (There I just saved some of the most fearful and naive Dems some breath.)

      The only place where Republicans are anywhere close to responsible is in the dictionary.

      by DemDachshund on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:29:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, but that leaves little room for change (0+ / 0-)

        We didn't win in 2000 and 2004 partly because we didn't have a 50 state strategy.  Howard Dean saw that as many of us did and he implemented it. Barack Obama based his campaign on it.  Dean wasn't just building the party for one election cycle, he was trying to build it over a generation.  He has succeeded, not completely, but it is growing.  Of course, we had help from George W. Bush and Tom Delay et al, but Dean saw this and knew that red states could one day cease being red and that, at least, we could turn them purple.  No presence in the state means you will never turn them red or purple.  Hillary went mostly for the blue states.  That is, perhaps, why she is behind.  Bill Clinton was a marvelous politician, but times change, and hopefully, voters too.

  •  Thanks! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    For this top-notch post on Howard Dean.

    I still haven't forgiven Iowa for destroying him in 2004 and I think his 50-state plan is outstanding.

  •  Anything that happens will be Dean's fault (0+ / 0-)

    As the article featured on the Kos front page a month or so ago said, Dean is no longer the butt of scream jokes (despite the best efforts of the media) but is respected for a successful 50-state strategy that has proven its establishment skeptic critics wrong.  

    But the media, representing the corporate/GOP/DLC/anti-grassroots coalition as usual,doesn't want this party to be successful unless it's a me-too-GOP party, and therefore hates the success of the Dean strategy.  As if they didn't hate him before for being against the war, against media consolidation, and for helping make anti-Bush politics cool.

    Anything that happens will be Dean's fault.  If we do lose this fall (and the media will try to make that happen to begin with and then pretend its our fault), there will be a big MSM concern troll effort to oust Dean even though they were always happy with McAuliffe running a losing party.  And if there's no nominee yet it's Dean's fault, and any Clinton or McCain partisan unhappy with his leadership on the subject will conveniently and anecdotally represent the "mainstream" or "consensus" view of all Dems nationally on the subject, according to these MSM articles.  

    The more-moderate-than-thous will fall for it like they do everything in the media.  But it's not their party, nor do they even want it to be.  (Such voters always get fooled into voting GOP by election day anyway.)  It's our party, we're smarter than the media and it's followers, and we're not going to fall for it.  Viva Dean!!!!!

    The only place where Republicans are anywhere close to responsible is in the dictionary.

    by DemDachshund on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:26:54 AM PDT

  •  Clinton problems with Dean (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DemDachshund, Libby Shaw, Amber6541

    The Clinton problems with Dean go way back.
    The current decision thatt the MI and FL rules should be changed if because that would benefit her campaign is only the latest.
    Dena may have been personally neutral between Clinton and Obama, but the 50-State Strategy hasn't.
    The Obama campaign is a refinement of teh old Dean campaign, and Penn and the Clinton campaign hate that they have been proven wrong.

    "The three main issues in this campaign are Iraq, I raq, and Iraq." -- Bill Foster

    by Frank Palmer on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:28:01 AM PDT

    •  The Clinton people (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Amber6541

      and other so-called "corporate" Democrats are threatened by the grassroots folks like us.  Obama has shown that we the little people with our tiny donations can compete with the fat cats and high roller contributors.  The fat cats don't want us playing in their game.
      My advice to them and those they are trying to purchase - shove it....we are playing and we will win.

  •  The story so far (0+ / 0-)

    Okay, let's recap:

    * Clinton and Obama agree not to run in MI.

    * Obama adheres to the agreement.

    * Clinton changes her mind, appears on the ballot unopposed by Obama, who didn't run. As per her agreement.

    * Clinton claims "victory!" and wants the resulting delegates.

    * Howard Dean is to blame.

    Got it.

    The Clinton machine is on the final spin, I only hope the country doesn't get taken to the cleaners before it ends.

  •  Markos (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    trinite

    Please send your response to the NYTimes.  You are extremely articulate on the matter.

    "Nothing can stand in the way of the *power* of millions of voices calling for change" Obama

    by SherriG on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:31:12 AM PDT

  •  "...were fixtures at the parties, fund-raisers (0+ / 0-)

    and restaurants that make up this city’s political culture..."

    That's a telling quote!

    ...his first years were marked by a very public feud with Representative Rahm Emanuel, Democrat of Illinois, over Mr. Dean’s trademark proposal to use Democratic National Committee money to build organizations in all 50 states

    And his second year was marked by our taking back Congress. Hmmmm....

    Looks like it's time to get out the old "Dean Democrat" button again.

    tragically un-hip

    -5.88, -6.82

    by Debby on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:31:55 AM PDT

  •  I'd challenge ANY human being to do better (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    I have always had tremendous respect for Howard Dean. I'd challenge any other honest human being to do a better job than he's done here.

    No one knew, at the outset of this primary race, that it would be so close.

    Rules are rules.

    It isn't up to Hoawrd Dean to bend or break them.

    I'm more disappointed in many of our party elders than I am with Gov Dean.

    I hate that he gets this blame.

  •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    puppet10

    What was he supposed to do, kidnap Mark Penn as he urged the Clinton campaign to go negative and lock him away in some dungeon in the basement of DNC headquarters?

    One can dream, can't one?

    Don't trust any UID over [insert current highest number here].

    by pattyp on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:34:30 AM PDT

  •  Is anyone naive enough... (0+ / 0-)

    ...to think that if Dean showed more obvious "leadership" by somehow breaking party rules to step in and choose a nominee by force or something, that the media wouldn't also make him out to be the bad guy for that?  Does anyone not believe that even if there was no conflict or lack of success in the party over anything that the media wouldn't intentionally drum up someone somewhere who supposedly represents how all Democrats are thinking, who would be willing to say that things would be even better without Dean and that Dean should go?  Think James Carville right after the 06 elections.  

    The only place where Republicans are anywhere close to responsible is in the dictionary.

    by DemDachshund on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:34:33 AM PDT

  •  CNN did an online poll question this morning (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JimmyTheSaint

    asking

    Do you think Howard Dean is strong enough to bring peace to the Democrats?

    h/t Jorgepoemas

    Link to vote Here

    It is the province of knowledge to speak And it is the privilege of wisdom to listen. Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. US Jurist

    by Oliver W Holmes the 3rd on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:35:01 AM PDT

  •  Dean is exercising leadership by adhering to the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    RULES.

    It simply interferes with the Clinton agenda.

    As for the Wright video, the Obama Camp should go ballsy and for every "maniacal" clip the GOP might run of the Reverend, the good guys should run a clip of their own choosing.  

    A Reminder to the Clintons: You can't fool all of the people all of the time.

    by BA BarackUS on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:36:13 AM PDT

  •  I support Dean and his efforts. (0+ / 0-)

    There is a lot of trash surfacing these days.  We'll see who's straight or who's crooked by the end.  Who knows what'll come of it.

  •  I just emailed Adam Nagourney and told... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Libby Shaw, trinite

    him what I though of his article.  I was respectful but basically I wrote that his article sounded like Rush Limbaugh wrote it.

  •  Kos, let's not be so hasty. (0+ / 0-)

    Kidnap Geraldine Ferraro and lock her up with Penn?

    This sounds like a great idea to me!

  •  It's clear what's happening. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    Dean is being set up to be the fall guy if/when we lose the election in November.  And I'll just say it - I'd bet my bottom dollar it's a whisper campaign that started with the Clinton campaign and is now gaining steam.  Everyone knows there's no love lost between him and the Clintons.  

    And I think it's a damn shame that our party would throw him under the bus to cover their own asses for refusing to bring HRC into line and letting her continue her scorched earth campaign.  I swear the democrat party is trying really hard to run everybody out of the party, or so it seems.  I'm so sick of the party elders and leaders and pundits who don't know their asses from a hole in the ground.

    Practice random acts of kindness.

    by Sally in SF on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:39:49 AM PDT

  •  This is choice (0+ / 0-)

    I have never heard from him," said Charles T. Manatt, who was chairman of the Democratic National Committee from 1981 to 1985. "But he is a totally different style from someone like me who came in through the party process. Dean doesn’t live in town so he hasn’t connected with a lot of people in town."

    I see.  The man who laid the groundwork for the historic Mondale landslide in 1984 is weighing in on Dean's failure "in town".  Well, it is true that Mondale carried DC in 84, and from the POV of people like Manatt I suppose DC is the ultimate "significant state", or at least "significant" "town."

  •  Dean's Strategy is Working (0+ / 0-)

    The Supers will all coalesce around Obama when he has his next big win, which is scheduled for North Carolina.  When they do, the lead will be overwhelming, Clinton will concede, and Obama can graciously allow the FL & MI delegations to be seated.  Then Obama can pick a Clintonite (but not a Clinton) for VEEP, and we have a unified party going up against the McCain/Romney ticket in the fall.

  •  Dean is about the only person we can trust. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

     When the Clintons trash Howard Dean, I'm more convinced than ever that he must be doing something right.  They opposed him in 2004 and didn't really want a Democrat elected because it would interfere with Hillary's plans.  Howard Dean is doing what's right on the Florida and Michigan primaries.  The Clintons wanted to be "smart" and get Florida to move up their primary, and now they're blaming it on Howard Dean?  I'm not surprised.  Florida and Michigan are reaping the consequences of their own actions.  They knew exactly what they were doing and they knew what the consequences would be.

  •  Push Poll (0+ / 0-)

    The survey should really go before the blog entry, not right after it. Otherwise, its a pretty blatant push poll.

  •  I believe he did not cause the mess (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    trinite, Amber6541

    originally; i believe that was the Rules Committee. The media love to blame him and love to claim he is ineffective. Some Democratic leaders have undermined him so that he has been able to do less than might otherwise have been possible.

    Basically, I see him as heavily contributing to the revival of the Democratic Party.

    I like him very much as a person, I LOVE the 50-state strategy, and generally speaking, I see him as a hero.

    If Hillary wins the nomination through anti-democratic tactics and sheer bullying, she has already lost the election.

    by lecsmith on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:55:27 AM PDT

  •  Well, first of all (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    isn't it DOCTOR Dean?

    I wish they would give him the respect he deserves by addressing him with his legitimate title. He's a medical doctor, not a PhD.

    NYTimes style runs counter to regular AP style, and says to always put a term of address with last name (Mr., Ms., Mrs.), so they should call him Dr. Dean.

  •  I know that everyone will not with agree with (0+ / 0-)

    i am going to say, but Dean is an idiot, a serious idiot. I am also aware that some here who worked in his campaign in 2004 and thus they feel a personal connection and loyalty to him, but that does not change the fact that so far he has been an idiot and he made the situation (along with Senator Obama actually) in Florida extremely complicated.

    Dean should thank his lucky stars (an economy in the pooper and a very unpopular war made his work easy) otherwise he would have a rebellion on his hand

    "Men make their history, but not under the conditions of their own choosing" Guess who said this?

    by Mutual Assured Destruction on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:58:18 AM PDT

    •  What??? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      USSF Ref, Amber6541

      Dean is NOT responsible for what happened in Florida, and if someone made the situation in Florida complicated, it's the Florida legislature, including some Democrats.  It's also Hillary Clinton who threw a party after the primary and declared the results valid.  She knew that the rules had been broken and she knew what the consequences would be, but I guess that the Clintons don't think the rules ever apply to them.  They also claim that they made the Democratic Party.  The only thing they made for the Democratic Party was defeat, and they did this by destroying what it had stood for since FDR and turning it into a bad copy of the Republican Party.  I hope you do remember what happened in 1994?  And now they're trying to undermine rules made by a Democratic Party committee which included Clinton supporters.   If there are idiots involved in this, it's the Florida and Michigan legislatures and Clinton supporters who apparently don't know that a democracy cannot function if rules are not respected.

  •  Please give at democrats.org (0+ / 0-)

    Please give any amount to prove that the Democratic Party is moving away from the lobbyist & K Street driven vehicle that has been the modern political party.  Dean has done an excellent job.  The DNC's problem is that with the primaries still going on their coffers are not being filled by activitists and donors currently fixated on the presidential race. People-powered democracy means broad based financial and active support in addition to votes.  

  •  I like Dean, but he's failing in 1 imp't respect (0+ / 0-)

    Dean may be offering a clear, personal position on things like superdelegates, MI, and FL, but the rest of the Democratic Party is all over the map. There is no consistency whatsoever in the Democratic message, and each day offers the spectacle of yet another Democratic leader offering their own interpretation of the nomination controversies. It conveys the message that the Dems don't have any consensus on what will be done, and that Howard Dean has no ability to forge that consensus.

    If Dems were speaking with a unified voice on what really should be reasonably cut and dried issues, the handwringing over uncertainties in the nominating process would be greatly reduced.

  •  Judging Dr. Dean's performance. (0+ / 0-)

    It's all quite simple. If this primary ends nicely, it is because he is a good leader. If this primary ends badly, it is his fault and should fall on his sword.

  •  Bill Clinton and Joe Lieberman are friends. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    I remember them from the days of our first senatorial primary in Connecticut when they opposed the Vietnam war.  I later figured out that they opposed it because they didn't want to be drafted.  Bill Clinton is for Bill Clinton and Joe Lieberman is for Joe Lieberman and his personal loyalties which do not include the Democratic Party.  The Democratic Party is just the vehicle they use for their personal ambitions.  In fact, they did all they could to transform the Democratic Party and just about ruin it.  And now Joe Lieberman claims that the party has been taken over by extremists?  I guess Joe and Bill didn't get their way and now they're throwing tantrums.  Joe, look in the mirror if you want to see a real extremist.

  •  Disenfranchasing voters and Superdelegates (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    I would like someone to explain to me this entire issue of "Disenfranchising" voters.  According to the Clinton camp, the people of Florida and Michigan will be "disenfranchised" their delegates are not seated and their voices are not heard.  Okay, I understand that part of the argument, that we in America believe that people have a right to vote and the results of that vote should be binding and absolute.
    What I don’t understand is the second part of the discussion, and that is regarding the role of the superdelegates. If you agree with the above stated argument, then how can you argue that the superdelegates should OVERTURN and IGNORE those same voices and wills of the voters of the entire nation?  Taking both sides of this argument seems like hypocrisy to me.  If the will of the votes is supreme, then you cannot then argue the point that the superdelegates should overturn that same will of the voters.

    •  lemme 'splain it to you.. (0+ / 0-)

      Superdelegates can vote however they want.  That's how it works.  And they are not bound to the popular vote.  But ALL delegates need to be seated for it to be fair.  The disenfranchisement comes in because several million people voted, but the delegates they voted for will not be present.

      Clinton is simply arguing that those delegates (fixed and super) from Florida and Mich should be seated.  They are then free to vote however they want.

      It should be a fair playing field with all participants present.  Otherwise it will go down in history like the 2000 election.

      •  Your solution doesn't make sense. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Amber6541

        Seating delegates who are not committed to a candidate but who have their own loyalties is grossly undemocratic.  It allows delegates who are supposed to represent the will of the people to do their own thing and disregard the basic purpose of primaries.  It would be better to seat them and give 50% to each candidate.

  •  The money thing at DNC (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    be the change you seek

    ...makes me really REALLY nervous.

    I mean first it was "well he's building the party so he can't save up" okay that makes sense, then it's "well not an election year" well all-righty, now it's an election and there has been lots of party building and there is still almost no money at the DNC.

    Is this a function of the Clinton donors hating Dean's guts?

    There's something attractive about invincible ignorance... for the first 5 seconds.

    by MNPundit on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:21:35 AM PDT

    •  Yes, that's the one question I have (0+ / 0-)

      Why has the DNC lagged behind every other party organ on both sides of the aisle in raising $$? Is it making fundraising appeals? I don't recall getting any mail or phone calls from the DNC in the last year.

      That is alarming.

      (I donated $500 to the DNC yesterday, but I'm only one person.)

      "It's not enough to be right. You still have to use your nice voice." -said by my then six-year-old daughter in reference to the Lorax

      by be the change you seek on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:36:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  no it's a function of obama supporters (0+ / 0-)

      not giving to the dnc because they don't want any of the money going to HRC's campaign. my fiance has ALWAYS donated to the dnc the past few years. but this year we have declined because we don't want to support clinton....so we give directly to obama's campaign. as soon as the nominee is chosen, we will then write a check to the dnc.

  •  Well, (0+ / 0-)

    when I found out how much the Beltway Cocktail Weenies hate him, my approval of his job went way up. :)

    You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!

    by Moody Loner on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:22:42 AM PDT

  •  bravo (0+ / 0-)

    Bravo, Kos.  I saw this article late last night and was furious.  Has John Solomon started writing under a nom de plume for the Times?

  •  Florida and Michigan will be seated.. (0+ / 0-)

    Dean is an idiot and so is anyone else who thinks Clinton will bow out before the convention if Florida and Michigan issues are not settled.  Kos, you (and Dean) may think it's settled, but a lot of voters don't.  Clinton will take up the "cause" of those states and she'll win.. and look the stronger for it.

  •  Dean's leadership has been hard to percieve. n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  Is $1.25 too much to pay for a crossword puzzle? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fearwig
  •  Well we seem to be witnessing the (0+ / 0-)

    slow moving Clinton Campaign "Dean Scream."

    Hillary Clinton: Running on Fumes!

    by Yoshimi on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:38:52 AM PDT

  •  I voted yes (0+ / 0-)

    but only because "Hell, FUCKING YEAHHHHH!" wasn't a choice.

    "Success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives." --George W Bush, May 2, 2007

    by mspicata on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:47:18 AM PDT

    •  How 'bout after he caves to Florida? (0+ / 0-)

      Looks like he's doing just that today...

      •  If you mean (0+ / 0-)

        this:

        The details of how to seat the Florida delegation still must be worked out with the campaigns of Sen. Hillary Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama. but, he said, "we are confident enough we have reserved hotel rooms," for Florida. Previously, the DNC had said there were no coveted hotel rooms in Denver reserved for Florida.

        I don't see an issue.  In fact, I think that moves it along.  It puts the onus squarely on the campaigns to sort this out, not the DNC.

        "Success is a level of violence where the people feel comfortable about living their daily lives." --George W Bush, May 2, 2007

        by mspicata on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:29:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  funny florida counted then not counted (0+ / 0-)

    First it's been sooo important to count those Florida votes in 2000, and now all of a sudden, it's not so much...
    It is really funny how some Dems are willing to throw out the window the rules our party stands on: democracy.

    Now if it were Obama in the Clinton's position, I BET this site would be HOPPING MAD to count those Florida votes NOW, and urgently.

    It's funny how some Floridians and Michiganians here are FINE with being disenfrenchized.

    Ce qui embellit le désert, c'est qu'il cache un puits quelque part...

    by gigglinggirl on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 09:55:19 AM PDT

  •  Kos please send a letter to NYT (0+ / 0-)

    We need someone to straighten them out and I'm sure they would publish yours.

  •  What I love about dkos (0+ / 0-)

    This is what I love about this place--that it can be written authoritatively that the New York Times is incredibly stupid.

  •  Flip-flopping media (0+ / 0-)

    First they bring Dr. Dean down in 2004 by playing "the scream" non-stop and suggesting he might be a little unstable, or at best out-of-control.

    Now they label him "low key" and suggest he might not have what it takes to keep the party from imploding.

    He can't be both of these images. So, New York Times, which is it? Or are you and the rest of the political press so out-of-touch that nothing you say or write has any validity anymore?

  •  Thanks for the diary kos-- (0+ / 0-)

    I was spittin' in my cereal at the Grey Lady's stupidity, pettiness, and dyed-in-the-wool establishmentarianism. N'shit. Dean rocks!!!

  •  Thank you for posting this... (0+ / 0-)

    It's always fun to watch donors complain that the DNC can no longer be purchased for a negotiated price.

    That was a pretty bad low blow on Dean.  So, what, he's being lambasted because he hasn't been sucked into the cosmic black hole that is K Street?  I still remember the Dean campaign when he was blasted because his wife dared to actually keep her career rather than go on the trail with him.

    Dean is probably the only person in the United States who is unable to publicly (or even privately) say that Clinton or Obama should drop out.  As the Chair of the DNC, he is obligated to facilitate the process through the last primary.  He may not want that to happen, but that's what we're paying him to do with our donations - to run a 50-state DNC.

    I'm sure if he were able to close up shop on April 23rd, he'd be the happiest person in Vermont.

    He has to be so careful, the dude's standing on a land mine, and one false step will blow up the whole brigade.  If people even get a whiff that he supports one candidate over the other, the Democratic Party immediately splits down the middle for decades.  Being "careful" and being in front of the cameras every day talking about the primary are mutually exclusive.

  •  Great piece (0+ / 0-)

    Next time add one more poll choice, "Hell yes!"

  •  Those arrogant Clintons! (0+ / 0-)

    The Clintons attack Howard Dean knowing that Howard Dean has the right to select 25 members for the Credentials Committee (the committee that decides what to do with the MI/FL delegates).

    I hope Chairman Dean hears all the attacks and makes his CC picks reflect how he feels about those attacks!

  •  Perception occasionally becomes reality (0+ / 0-)

    In as much as this untidy sorting out of the electorate looks, acts, and appears to be yet another colossal blunder by the democrats - in a year in which this should be a cake walk to the Whitehouse - many in the trenches of this campaign believe something has to be done. Swing voters, you know, the ones that actually tip the presidency to one side, are turned off by this tawdry display of airing the dirty laundry. The longer it goes, the more McCain can take advantage of the perceived disarray.
     
    So, yes, someone needs to step up and set a deadline expectation well before the convention. This is Dean's role. Both sides are spending money that could be better spent in the general election defeating McCain. When all the votes are counted in June, nothing will demonstratively change in pledged delegates. Its time to unify this mess and move forward.      

    •  someone troll rate wizard here please n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "The greatest menace to freedom is an inert people" -- Louis Brandeis

      by cgiselle12 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 11:30:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  not sure what troll rate is.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Malixe

        ok, apparently I said some things that rankled the group think.
         
        I'm a strong supporter of Barack Obama, and believe he deserves to be president at this point in time in our history. I, like most reasonable people, eschew bickering, backstabbing, and divisiveness.

        Republicans will find a way to take advantage of this Clinton-Obama abyss, and its reflective of some polls recently showing McCain making up ground with independents.

        No one of significant influence or stature, i.e. Al Gore, is stepping up to broker this situation. It is not a healthy process, and no one cares for lingering dissension except the news media, who relish the sound bites. Hence, my view is that Dean, who has done a far better job than McCauliffe, needs to step in and make certain this doesn't perpetuate to the convention.
         
        troll? you must be kidding....  
         

  •  even tho this thread is almost dead, i must say: (0+ / 0-)

    Typically the DNC chair has a horse in the race and provides unde-the-radar services to one candidate over another.

    Dead is trying to be fair--altho I can't imagine he likes the Clintons.

    This is how the CLinton people treat non-clinton people. and you wonder why the supers are nervous about ditching the clintons.

    the good news is we are observing the collapse of a once mighty political machine....going dawn hard.

  •  that my state has gotten benfit from the 50 state (0+ / 0-)

    I have stay Dean is a freaking genuis, he saw all these Blues swimming in a sea of red and he made the case we should have a fight chance to make a differnce and make this party stronger. One of those reds was loved by alot of people (john Edwards) and another from a red state won the nobel prize if they could pull out something good without the parties help much think what could be done with it. and has been done with it.

    "we think about it, we talk about, we dream about, all the time because we are afraid that the world will implode on it's on evil nature otherwise"

    by red states blues on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 11:18:39 AM PDT

  •  STILL...The Man with the right plan! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rkolker

    Photobucket

    When good people of conscience give up the fight for justice, all is lost. Therefore you must not give up. www.politicalartwork.blogspot.com

    by EmilyD on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 11:25:05 AM PDT

  •  Dean gets under the Clinton's (0+ / 0-)

    skin.  Dean makes rules and the Clintons don't follow any rules but their own.  They want to change the horse mid stream.  Dean needs to put them in the corner!  

  •  Frakin' right. (0+ / 0-)

    Wonderful article. It's no surprise there are people alienated by the Dean strategy--and they're just as keen on John McCain this cycle. So what were they doing in our ranks in the first place, if not lining pockets in the hope of a future back-scratch?

  •  Rebuke this. (0+ / 0-)

    The article you reference pissed me off, too.

    Hillary "rebuked" Dean? All I have to say to HRC about that is "Fuck you."

    Dean is one of the few Dems I have any enthusiasm about. When I read that he goes home on weekends, I thought, they should make a law that everyone in Congress should go home on weekends.  And face the wrath of their constituents over the war, the coming depression, the enabling of Bush lawlessness, etc.

    Dean has the right idea. I am just nutty about the guy.

  •  Dr. Dean deserves sainthood! (0+ / 0-)
    Dr. Dean deserves to be sainted for putting up with Rahm Emanuel/Harold Ickes and their ilk. He is one of few in the city of Washington who truly understands democracy and that if you chose the rrules you should live by them. God bless him!!!
  •  Do you approve of the way Dean is Running the DNC (0+ / 0-)

    Emphatically.

    Unequivocally.

    Confession: I'm a Deaniac anyway. But he could have run this right into the ground.

    Instead, here's the likely prez nominee outfundraising and out-registering his Dem and Repub rivals, having refined and mastered Dean's blueprint.

    Then there's the 2006 midterm results...

  •  So glad to see this. Thanks, Kos. (0+ / 0-)

    I was spitting mad this morning after reading the "hit piece".  Fired off a letter to the NYT, looked in vain on Daily Kos for shared outrage and went off to work.

    Here's my email to the NYT:  

    Dear Editors:

    Re. your article today on Dr. Dean:  What a hit piece!  He "doesn't live in town"?  Well, thank God for that.  He is working for us, not Washington insider cronies.  Dr. Dean is doing exactly what he needs to be doing - building the party and enforcing the "rules".  By the way, he is doing it very well.

  •  Dean blows it - seats FL and MI! (0+ / 0-)

    Can I take back my vote of confidence in Dean?  DNC today announced it will seat delegates from both states on the credential committees!?!  That is bizarre.  Even Hillary's point guy Ickes reacted by saying it was a "little odd."

  •  Do I approve of Dean? Abso-f*cking-lutely!! (0+ / 0-)

    I forgot my mantra.

    by karenz on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:50:18 PM PDT

  •  I am so glad (0+ / 0-)

    that Howard Dean is still his own man.  He worked hard at the "50 state strategy"--and succeeded, despite the scorn from the Big Boys (and Girl).  IMO, he deserves a lot of the credit for the Dems' success in Nov.'06.  But we got Rahm Emmanuel villifying Dean and trying to isolate him.  We underestimate Howard Dean at our peril.

    "Why you sockdologizing ol' mantrap, you!"

    by ejoanna on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 02:31:40 AM PDT

  •  Dear Howard, Sorry You're An Incompetent Failure (0+ / 0-)

    I disagree with the high approval here on Dailykos --

    Dear Howard Dean,

    I was a fan of yours. I never understood what the big deal was with "the scream". I was glad to see you take over the party chairmanship. But now, well, here's what I have to say:

    You have completely abdicated any and all leadership in this, the most important DNC activity: the Presidential primary.

    Why bother establishing a rule and declaring a penalty if you have no intention of enforcing it?

    Why didn't you anticipate that states might challenge your rule? Why didn't you declare a penalty that you would have been willing to enforce?

    While the fault lies with the states for breaking the rules, a fault lies with you as well for completely mismanaging this process and putting the primary, election and party in jeopardy.

    How dare you punt the resolution to the candidates, as if they are likely to agree to solution.

    How dare you punt the resolution of your ruling to the credential committee after correctly acknowledging that a delay until the August convention would be disastrous for the party, as it was in 1976 (for Gerald Ford) and 1980 (for Jimmy Carter).

    If you want to seat delegates without looking like a fool and encouraging other states to ignore your rules in the future: seat half of them and apportion them 50/50. You have to penalize these states and you can't count the votes of primaries that were disqualified in advance. Even Hillary acknowledged those votes would not count, both before and after the primaries were held.

    Absent a valid campaign and vote, on what rational basis could an apportionment of anything other than 50/50 be justified?

    I had no idea that you would disappoint us in such a manner on such a monumental occasion. If you are truly going to leave it to others to fix your blunder in the manner being reported, if you truly have nothing of value to offer at this of all times, please step down and let a leader take over. Otherwise, there should be a movement to unseat you.

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