Skip to main content

Yesterday, we revealed that John Hagee's church is confirmedly within the "Joel's Army" movement--a group of the "most extreme of the extreme" of neopentecostal dominionists, who believe they are part of a "third pentecost" designed to raise a group of divine ubermenschen to "name and claim" the world for their theology.

One of the parts of their theology that is very rarely discussed--save by a few of us researchers--is that they are one of the very few groups on the planet to literally have a theological mandate for not only genocide but near omnicide--both pre- and post-Tribulation.  Combined with the known use of coercive tactics and the decidedly unique interpretations of Biblical verses that claim they're part of an end-time army of "God Warriors"'s not exaggeration to state this is a potential threat to humanity.

Things re "Joel's Army" Hagee doesn't want you to know

One thing Hagee may not want folks to know about is the fact that "Joel's Army" is a kissing cousin to the horribly racist "Assemblies granddaughter" Christian Identity--namely, one big thing they both promote (though in different contexts) is the concept of "Phineas Priests".

Again, Let Us Reason notes this:

Rick Joyner teaches ""What is about to come upon the earth is not just a revival, or another awakening; it is a veritable revolution. The vision was given in order to begin to awaken those who are destined to radically change the course, and even the very definition of Christianity. The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord's faithful servants...the Lord will raise up a great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles that will be of the spirit of Phinehas ... this "ministry of Phinehas" will save congregations, and at times, even whole nations. ...Nations will tremble at the mention of their name..."(THE HARVEST, Rick Joyner)

So does Paw Creek:

Since Joel's Army is supposed to be men and women taking possession of this earth for their King, a second class of warriors becomes necessary. These they call the "Phineas Priesthood." Rick Joyner made mention of those with the "spirit of Phineas" in his book, The Harvest.

"The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord's faithful servants.....a great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas..." (THE HARVEST, Rick Joyner).

A book written by Richard Kelly Hoskins entitled, "Vigilantes Of Christendom," describes these warriors. He says of them, "As the Kamikaze is to the Japanese, As the Shiite is to Islam, As the Zionist is to the Jew, So the Phineas priest is to Christendom." It is very clear that they are preparing to slaughter those who resist their authority. Jesus warned that, "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." (St. John 16:2). That sounds exactly like the great inquisitors of the dark ages.

It's interesting--and more than a bit disturbing--to discuss the one usage of the term outside of Joel's Army circles.

The one other group that talks about "Phinehas Priests" aside from "Joel's Army" neopentecostal dominionists...happens to be Christian Identity groups (of note, Christian Identity itself can be considered to be a particularly racist split from an early "Joel's Army" movement called "Manifest Sons of God").  The Anti-Defamation League has more info on the racist version:

A police search of Furrow’s car yesterday reportedly revealed a copy of War Cycles/Peace Cycles, a book written by Richard Kelly Hoskins, an adherent to the racist and anti-Semitic "Identity" movement. Hoskins’ 1990 book, Vigilantes of Christendom: The Story of the Phineas Priesthood, is a lengthy manifesto that perverts passages of the Bible to justify anti-Semitic and racist acts of violence.
. . .
The "Phineas Priesthood" is a violent credo of vengeance that has gained some popularity among white supremacists and other extremists in recent years. Unlike other extremists groups, the Phineas Priesthood is not a membership organization in the traditional sense: there are no meetings, rallies or newsletters. Rather, extremists become "members" when they commit "Phineas acts:" any violent activity against "non-whites." In this way, achieving Phineas Priesthood status has become the goal of extremists committed to perpetrating violent crimes.
. . .
In 1990, Hoskins published his bizarre magnum opus, Vigilantes of Christendom: The Story of the Phineas Priesthood where he claimed that the "Phineas Priesthood" are Christian guerillas who avenge Judeo-Christian traitors. While assuming a posture of impartiality, he speaks with clear sympathy of The Order, of Adolf Hitler, and of murderers of homosexuals and interracial couples.

"Phinehas Acts" are becoming much more common in regards to domestic terrorism tied to Christian Identity groups; they've also become quite common among domestic terrorist acts linked to neopente dominionist and Christian Reconstructionist groups (like clinic bombings, assassinations, and so on):

Paul Hill, the anti-abortion activist, was convicted of murdering Dr. John Bayard Britton and his escort outside a Pensacola, Florida, abortion clinic in 1994. Hill had written an essay advocating the commission of "Phineas actions" a year before.

(Paul Hill was a domestic terrorist and assassin who was ultimately executed in part because of this murder--part of a campaign of domestic terrorism conducted by a group calling itself the "Army of God".)

Hidden messages for divinely-sanctioned slaughter

It's also worth noting the Biblical context of this--and why it's so worrying.  Phinehas (which is the more proper transliteration) is described in Numbers 25 as being the leader of a particularly bloody purge in Jewish history.    In Numbers 25:1-3 the introduction of the worship of Ba'al-Peor (a local mountain deity) via Moabite and Midianite influence--including, notably, intermarriage with the Moabite and Midianite peoples--is noted, and in Numbers 25:6-8 the level of Phineha's zeal is revealed when Moses commands the mass slaughter of anyone who's had truck with veneration of Ba'al-Peor:

[6]And behold, one of the people of Israel came and brought a Mid'ianite woman to his family, in the sight of Moses and in the sight of the whole congregation of the people of Israel, while they were weeping at the door of the tent of meeting.
[7] When Phin'ehas the son of Elea'zar, son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose and left the congregation, and took a spear in his hand
[8] and went after the man of Israel into the inner room, and pierced both of them, the man of Israel and the woman, through her body. Thus the plague was stayed from the people of Israel.


(Yes, you read this right.  He literally shish-kabobbed not only the Midianite lady but her Israeli fiance--whilst the two of them were boinking their brains out in the temple.)

Phinehas is not only hailed for this, but in Numbers 25:11-13, is made head of a hereditary priesthood; the families of the two persons involved in the affair become cyphers.  

The bloodshed doesn't stop here.  In Numbers 25:17-18, the example of Phinehas's sex-kabobbing of Cozbi and her fiance is given as an example of what should be done, and in Numbers 26:1-10 the death of 250 men "swallowed up by fire" is described in a census conducted for the purpose of raising an army.  After said census is conducted, Numbers 31 describes how an army of 12,000 is called up and the entire country of the Midianites is destroyed in a scorched-earth campaign lead by Phinehas (including the slaughter of literally every person in the country with the exception of female virgins, who were claimed as literal spoils of war).  

Phinehas also shows up again in Joshua 22:9-34--this time to squelch what was mistaken as a separatist movement among a few of the ancient Israeli tribes who made the fatal mistake of setting up a temple on land they had recently reclaimed.  This eventually led to the entire Israeli army being led against the tribes of Reuben and Gad (and the demitribe of Manassah)--and they would have been utterly exterminated by Phinehas were it not for some quick explanation that the temple that had been built was a memorial, not an attempt at separatism.

If anything, the Joel's Army interpretation is even more extreme than that of racist groups--they literally believe they are commanded to exterminate not only anyone non-dominionist but anyone felt to have been tainted by non-dominionists.  In short, pretty much all of non-dominionist America is equated to Midianites tempting people into the moral equivalent of conducting a live sex show in the middle of St. Peter's Cathedral--and both they, and the people within the group seen to have been "friendly" with them...well, in their view, we're all to be destroyed by "God Warriors".

"Joel's Army" theology as popular entertainment

As strange as it may sound, omnicide of over 99.99% of the world's population is now a topic of a popular media series--the "Left Behind" media empire, which include not only a series of books but a video game (which was originally planned to be marketed to children as young as six and primarily within neopentecostal dominionist churches), several movies, and even a few spinoffs.  The entire series is essentially a fictionalised version of post-Rapture "Joel's Army" theology--including the formation of a "Tribulation Force" comprised of post-Rapture convertees to Joel's Army theology who form a guerilla resistance.  The book series in particular also gives a rare semi-public glimpse as to the actual sorts of theology being preached in your average "Joel's Army" church.

The final book of the series, "Glorious Appearing", promotes the idea in Joel's Army circles of the Prince of Peace being hip-deep in the blood and entrails of the slain in an image that would even shock the Norse skald's images of Ragnarok:

Jesus has been depicted as a lamb and a shepherd, a rock star and a lowly carpenter. In "Glorious Appearing," the climactic twelfth installment in the Left Behind series released this week, Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins give us Christ the Destroyer.

Here's the Christ Triumphant speaking as he encounters the army of the Anti-Christ near the ancient city of Petra in Jordan: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and Last, the Beginning and the End, the Almighty." Upon hearing these words, the Anti-Christ's minions fall dead, "simply dropping where they stood, their bodies ripped open, blood pooling in great masses." Later, as the Lord rides his white horse to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, the saved sing "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God."

This vision of Christ, who eviscerates his human foes and drops them to the desert floor, is fast becoming the Savior for our times. He is Jesus the Warrior, who has gone in and out of fashion for most of the 20th century. "We're looking for a much more martial messiah," says Stephen Prothero, chairman of Boston University's religion department and author of the recently published "American Jesus." "In part, it's a response to 9/11 and the war in Iraq," he says, pointing out that the militant Jesus was popular during and after both world wars. "In the '60s and '70s, this Jesus nearly disappears," says Prothero. "You get the sense now that we are swinging back."

The images are more akin to the final scene of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" than to anything in the conventional Biblical sermon--bodies literally melting, Christ (who is apparently played by the genetic lovechild of Chuck Norris and John Rambo) literally causing people to split open and their entrails pouring out by just speaking, graphic descriptions of chucking the Bad Guys (pretty much most of humanity) into the sulfurous pit of Hell, with the God Warriors eventually kicking everyone's asses (along with the Raptured coming back down--and all parties involved being provided white horsies Just Like Jesus to slaughter the rest of humanity).  A Harper's review (noted below) goes into more detail:

The armies of heaven, also on white horses, follow, though their role in the battle ends up being superfluous. The Antichrist's black-clad legions ride horses, too, possibly because they explode so satisfactorily. No sooner does Jesus speak than the carnage begins. Carpathia's legions begin to fall dead, "their bodies ripped open, blood pooling in great masses."

Seeking a better view of the action, Rayford abandons his ATV for a Hummer, "riding shotgun," which, write Jenkins and LaHaye in something less than a Proustian reverie, "transported him back to college when he and his fraternity brothers would compete to call the favored seat, sometimes as much as twenty-four hours before a trip." Meanwhile, the slaughter runs on for close to eighty gleeful pages:

   Rayford watched through the binocs as men and women soldiers and horses seemed to explode where they stood. It was as if the very words of the Lord had superheated their blood, causing it to burst through their veins and skin. . . . Their innards and entrails gushed to the desert floor, and as those around them turned to run, they too were slain, their blood pooling and rising in the unforgiving brightness of the glory of Christ.

The glory of Christ, mind you. Blood is described roaring through the Holy Land in rivers five feet deep. At one point, the Antichrist's Humvee sinks up to its axles in a swamp of blood-mud.

The rest of the books in the series are just as bad--in a scene disturbingly reminiscent of Hagee's claims that the Eastern and Western Seaboards would be nuked--and Assemblies' claims of Russia nuking the US--there is a scene in "Nicolae" where most of the world's major cities are nuked by the titular Nicolae Carpathia (who has in the meantime converted the UN into the One World Government--a popular scenario in "Joel's Army" circles since before the fall of the Soviet Union).

Now, it's bad enough that an entire cottage industry has come about over the fictionalisation of what amounts to a disturbing theology of Jesus "Hulkamaniac" Christ (now we know what the "H" in "Jesus H. Christ" stands for, apparently) coming down with an army of God Warriors.

What's worse, though, is that to "Joel's Army"...this isn't fiction, and they expect to be the guys literally swimming in everyone else's blood as they descend from Heaven at the end of the Tribulation and slaughter the world.

God-Warrior mandates and physical violence in the name of "spiritual warfare"

Combine this with a major scripture-twisting of Joel 2 that describes themselves as not only a "third Pentecost" but as a locust-like army of God Warriors and the known use of extremely coercive tactics that have been documented to cause personality changes in less than three days...

...well, if you aren't disturbed, you should be, seriously.

And if this isn't enough to worry you, think of this--the goal is ultimately omnicide of the entire world population other than neopentecostal dominionists (no, Jewish people don't get an out unless they convert to "Messianics") via thermonuclear war.  The mere promotion of this in churches (which has gone on for quite a long time; I've personally witnessed it since the late 70s in the Assemblies church I am a walkaway from, and this sort of thing has been promoted since at least the fifties in the context of nuclear warfare) is scary enough.

However, there's been a distressing trend over the past twenty years or so of the concept of "spiritual warfare" being increasingly embraced in the physical realm as well.

One area is with paramilitary training of youth and indoctrination.  "Jesus Camp" detailed what is actually a mild version of this in Assemblies of God circles; increasingly common are literal boot camps, including literal paramilitary training in the Assemblies' "Christian alternative" to Scouting.  Movements popular in the Assemblies and its "daughters" tend to be even worse; Bill Gothard runs a literal paramilitary training facility for "Joel's Army" youth.

This also means that the US military has become an increasing target for infiltration.  The very paramilitary training camp noted above has gotten quite official sanction by the general in charge of most of the US Air Force's military recon and IT security.  This effort has become disturbingly successful; no less than two of the primary parties involved in the Abu Ghraib scandal including policymaker William Boykin are directly involved in the Assemblies and the "Joel's Army" movement within the denomination, and in many cases the US government has literally been paying for packing the chaplaincy of the US Army and Air Force with "Joel's Army" promoters.  (Boykin is especially interesting in this regard; he has quite explicitly referred to Joel's Army theology in speeches to his fellow soldiers.)  One of the major groups involved in infiltration of the military, Campus Crusade for Christ, has been known to promote this sort of theology as well.

Increasingly, though, these groups aren't restricting themselves to infiltrating the military (or political parties, for that matter) or having their kids play soldier in "Bible boot camps".  Increasingly, "Joel's Army" theology is leaking into real world violence--including the neopentecostal dominionist hategroup "Watchmen At The Walls" (which has received official support from the Assemblies of God as a whole) as well as domestic terrorism (such as targeted assassinations of women's clinic workers and bombings of not only women's clinics but adult bookstores and LGBT nightclubs).  Not only this, but increasingly "Joel's Army" is no longer even bothering to keep a "private face"--such as Joseph Fuiten's call for the mass denationalisation and deportation of non-dominionists.

And if this doesn't scare you yet--these groups may have influence to the very highest levels of government and documented histories of particularly horrific genocides (ask Guatemala about the hell it endured under Gen. Rios Montt sometime)...and the largest denomination embracing "Joel's Army" theology has an estimated membership of nearly three million people...and they've rather explicitly targeted the largest Protestant denomination in the US, the Southern Baptist Convention, for total conversion from within.

Originally posted to dogemperor on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:12 PM PDT.

Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

    •  Your diaries are a great service (8+ / 0-)

      I wish I could do more than recommend them & tip jar you...

      "It's better to realize you're a swan than to live life as a disgruntled duck."

      by Mumon on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:27:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dogemperor (10+ / 0-)

      Am I correct in thinking this Phinehas is the same figure invoked by racist Christian Identity groups as justification for using violence to stop "miscegenation"?  Very telling.

      Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

      by bythesea on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:28:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The one and the same. (10+ / 0-)

        Yes, this would be exactly the same Phinehas in question.

        One thing very few folks are aware of--"Joel's Army" and Christian Identity are actually brother movements, both descended from early dominionist movements (in particular, "Manifest Sons of God" and "Latter Rain" teachings common in the Assemblies and its primary daughter International Foursquare in the thirties, and in particular teachings of William Branham).

        Several leaders of the movement that would evolve into neopentecostalism--in particular Branham and Charles Fox Parnham (the latter has been described as the "father of the Assemblies of God") were infamously racist, and on occasion their racism would slip into their theology; the major split seems to be that "Joel's Army" took the "God warrior" imagery and ran with it, whereas Christian Identity took the racist elements and ran with those.

        •  My understanding is that Christian Identity (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          is actually an offshoot of the British Israelite movement--therefore closer to Seventh Day Adventists than mainstream pentacostalism. I didn't realise that the Ass. of God (as we always called 'em back home) were in that tradition but thanks to your diary and the wonders of Google, now I do. Thanks!

          Any evidence of "dual seed" theology in neopente circles? If so, that's where it gets really dangerous. "Dual seed" means some "humans" aren't really human, usually meaning the Jews but some CI people consider only Whites human. These "non-human" groups are said to come from matings of humans with devils/the Serpent--Cain's line vs. Abel's is one way it has been put.

          As an amusing aside, my partner once spent a couple of days with Ricky Cooper, who had been George Rockwell's secretary (Rockwell was the head of the American Nazi Party) and was involved in pretty much every racist movement of note from the 60s on. A few drinks into one night, Cooper sprung a "TRIPLE seed" theory on him, that maybe white people are really ALIENS! I'm still amazed that my guy stayed cool... cool enough that Cooper let him rifle his files while he was out. Some very cool shit came home, including a letter directly linking Bush's favourite Texas funders, the Hunt Brothers, with Rockwell. Now that Cooper's dead I wish we still had it, but I think he flogged it to a collector.
          We used to love getting the Nazi newsletter Cooper edited because every issue had an obituary column full of Nazi creeps who had shot themselves since that's how der Fuhrer did it. It's good to know THAT part of his legacy lives on! Anyway, now Cooper's now become my favourite kind of Nazi--the dead kind :-)

          PS: He might have been right about the aliens part. I have met some crazed Nazis who I sure hope are not from my species!

          Political Compass says: -8.88, -8.67
          "We never sold out cos no one would buy."--J Neo Marvin

          by expatyank on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:37:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, "Serpent seed" stuff is rife. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Neon Vincent

            Christian Identity is acknowledged to be a fork off International Foursquare (Church of Jesus Christ Christian being the primary fork here), but yes, "British Israelism" has pretty much always been at a major core of the movement (again, evolving in a different way with "Joel's Army" in that the US and Israel are both seen as "chosen nations" and neopentecostals and Jewish people as specifically "chosen people" of God whilst largely expurgating the blatantly racist stuff, with Christian Identity incorporating the racist aspects).

            Serpent-seed theology (the concept that everyone is descended from either God (via Adam) or Satan (via Cain) is also rife in these circles--time didn't allow me to get into it extensively today, but typically "Joel's Army" churches promote that active opponents of the group are the spiritual (and occasionally the literal) descendants of Satan, whilst "Joel's Army" is literally considered the brood of God (this was especially apparent in its "Manifest Sons of God" incarination, and is apparent in the newer name used for Joel's Army groups internally--"Joshua Generation").  Again, Christian Identity ran with the racist aspects of this theology, whilst the neopentecostals (including "Joel's Army" promoters) ran with the "sons of God vs. sons of the devil" angle.  (And again, the same two promoters are noted--Charles Fox Parnham and William Branham both actively promoted "serpent seed" theology, and aspects of this and other symbolism in British Israelism were in fact part of the core theology of the Assemblies of God (and its daughters) practically from the beginning.)

            The "manifest sons of God" stuff (aka Joel's Army 1.0) became so rife in the Assemblies--and garnered so much bad press (in that even a goodly 40 years before exit counseling started being an area of serious research, people were beginning to be very concerned about coercive tactics in the group)--that the denomination officially "condemned" it (in a largely CYA move--it was still VERY much tolerated underground, and even promoted by Assemblies frontgroups like FGBMFI).

            In fact, there's a pretty good argument that a nearly unbroken lineage exists between Branham in particular and "Joel's Army" today, with Paul Cain--a member of one of the Joel's Army promoters known popularly as the Kansas City Prophets--appears to have been directly mentored by Branham.  

  •  They believe in anihilation of non-believers. (11+ / 0-)

    And they decide who is a believer. Mainline Christians are not "saved" according to the true believers.

    McCain has courted the endorsement of the leaders of these dangerous fanatics. This needs to be exposed.

    "It's the planet, stupid."

    by FishOutofWater on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:22:29 PM PDT

  •  When a single book is your source of truth... (7+ / 0-)

    and there is a charismatic person who gets to interpret the words of this sacred book, this can and will happen.

    While there are moderate churches, even progressive churches, the commonality is belief in the miracle of the resurrection.  If one person can be resurrected to live in Glory with God, then why not the rest of "saved" humanity. So the apocalypse is not the ultimate disaster, it is accession to a higher plain of existence.

    It is beyond sad that this, among all of the democratic industrialized advanced countries, the United States does not have an atheistic political party. We have no choice but to go along with the exaltation of religion, and consider Hagee the bizarre exception.

    Once you become unrestrained by empirical reality, perversities like that described in this diary, are inevitable.

  •  I'm just so terribly, horribly tired (6+ / 0-)

    ..of people's primitive, violent, "Gods," "Holy Books," "Churches," "Reverends," ad nauseum.

    They make me sick to my stomach.

    Own your rights. Know your life, and visa-versa

    by SecondComing on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:25:38 PM PDT

  •  Hey Southern Baptists! Conversion By The Sword! (4+ / 0-)

    Knock knock!

    So I guess Joel Army figures they can convert maybe a third of their members to their violent theology, and then they will exterminate everyone else in the congregation, starting with their neighbors.

    •  More like "get a critical mass" first (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc, marina, bythesea

      ...and then begin the bloodshed.  (Yes, there's a reason they target practically all mainstream Christian churches...and the military...and the GOP...and anything else they can infiltrate for "infiltration and assimilation from within".  Namely, if they can get a "critical mass" up they can take it over wholescale--and sadly, the steeplejackings of the Russian Reformed Baptist church, the GOP, and the Southern Baptists (which have been initially steeplejacked by dominionists and are now increasingly being taken over by overt "Joel's Army" promoters) show that this is a frighteningly effective method.)

      •  I was a kid attending (5+ / 0-)

        a Southern Baptist church during the "steeplejacking" by dominionists.  It was bizarre to see the farily mainline church with many moderate congregations essentially be overthrown by nutjobs (few now realize the SBC was not the same as it is now not all that long ago).  It's sad and frightening that these even more extreme elements are continuing the process.

        Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

        by bythesea on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:49:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Are they on the no-fly list? (7+ / 0-)

    Because they are obviously terrorists threatening the greater population of the U.S. and, presumably, elsewhere.  Also: is this the group that infiltrated the Air Force?

    A chaplain at the Air Force Academy has described a "systemic and pervasive" problem of religious proselytizing at the academy and says a religious tolerance program she helped create to deal with the problem was watered down after it was shown to officers, including the major general who is the Air Force's chief chaplain.

    The academy chaplain, Capt. MeLinda Morton, 48, spoke publicly for the first time as an Air Force task force arrived at the academy in Colorado Springs on Tuesday to investigate accusations that officers, staff members and senior cadets inappropriately used their positions to push their evangelical Christian beliefs on Air Force cadets.
    Air Force Chaplain Tells of Academy Proselytizing - New York Times

    Our economy is a house of cards. Don't breathe.

    by Youffraita on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:39:34 PM PDT

  •  Nobody wants to believe that these people (6+ / 0-)

    are real.

    I have never had the list of resources dogemperor has but I have simply known there's a small, powerful group set on killing as many people as possible to keep the earth more or less for themselves. Empire is the current term for their goals, but lebensraum was a term in vogue for awhile... Other terms include "Manifest Destiny".

    They will control everything, leave a slave nation on each continent to do the hard labor necessary to facilitate their lifestyle.

    Few of the calamities threatening us will be of any consequence to them.

    I'll just leave it at that.

    There's no money for your issue so long as we're squandering $50 billion a year on the DrugWar. Ben Masel

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed May 21, 2008 at 02:45:35 PM PDT

  •  Mind Control Through Fear (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oldjohnbrown, dogemperor, bythesea

    is the same wherever it raises it's ugly head .

    Are these the same folks that are putting out the "Be afraid, be very afraid" world maps , with little Saudi flags replacing every nation's own ?

    They seem absolutely possessed by the very demons they claim to want everybody to be saved from !

  •  Domestic Enemies and Traitors (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dogemperor, Neon Vincent

    These folks are worse than anyone we're fighting halfway around the world, because they've already infiltrated our military, actively seek to replace our constitutional democracy with a dominionist theocracy that exterminates non-believers, and are hell-bent on bringing on the "end of days" and plunging the world into mortal peril.

    Do not underestimate the determination of these individuals who have effectively been lobotomized by their beliefs, and their physical threat to our future. They are not just a bunch of silly loony religious freaks- they are highly organized, arming themselves with real guns, undergoing paramilitary training, and infiltrating our government, security services and military. The longer they are given a pass, the more dangerous and entrenched they will become.

    If it ever comes down to martial law, roundups, and the inevitable US civil war that will result, it is more likely than not that it is these groups and their disciples who we will be fighting in order to save our democracy.

  •  Good grief, this is scary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dogemperor, expatyank

    Most of you know that I was once a member of one of the more pernicious Latter Rain/dominionist outfits.  

    The thing that boggles my mind is how these guys are able to sucker college students who know the characteristics of fascism.  There is nada, zip, zero substantive difference between the Joel's Army concept and Hitler's master race.

    Support our troops--end waterboarding!

    by Christian Dem in NC on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:08:08 PM PDT

  •  How might we stop these people? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dogemperor, spacecadet1

    Is there any means of resisting or thwarting these people that won't strengthen their resolve by appearing to confirm their beliefs regarding temptation and oppression?

    They are a cultural movement after all, and government is just one of the many fronts on which they fight.

    The Collapse is coming; be prepared -

    by Visceral on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:09:01 PM PDT

    •  At this point, it's better to talk of "remission" (5+ / 0-)

      Any effort to solve this issue is going to be on the realm of 50- and 100-year plans at this point, but I think we can do things to control influence:

      a) Education (not just like the stuff I'm doing, but general society-wide education on how coercive groups work--and yes, this includes education in mainstream churches as well as schools and the like).

      b) Removal of the "form 990 loophole" for churches--churches are the sole 501(c)3 nonprofits to not have to fill out any forms with the IRS, and closing the loophole would make it easier to remove tax-exempt status for these groups)

      c) Making sure that the government starts taking all groups promoting terrorism--right-wing as well as left-wing and domestic "Bible-based" ones as much as foreign "Koran-based" ones--seriously.  Include revocation of tax-exempt status for any church found to be advocating acts of violence against others.  

      d) In conjunction with c) and a) above, the government would need to start considering members of coercive religious groups in general (and especially those with a documented history of attempts at government infiltration) as security risks as far as military service, etc. goes.  

      e) Remove existing loopholes for religiously motivated child abuse--no more "religious exemptions" for abusive practices.

      f) Require medical doctors, teachers, etc. to meet mainstream certification standards and do not certify  dominionist "parallel economy" alternatives to mainstream certification boards for purposes of licensing.  (This would, among other things, require docs to follow ethics guidelines.)

      g) Require minimal educational standards for home education and private school programs.  (I'm not saying necessarily "state approved curricula".  More "Any curricula package used must cover these subjects; home-designed curricula can document in yearly educational progress reports filed how their personal educational plans meet these requirements, and correspondence and private school curricula must document how their packages meet these requirements; any student using a curricula not meeting these basic requirements shall be considered truant."  This allows legitimate home education and "unschooling" (and individualised education plans) whilst essentially knocking out the entire dominionist "child indoctrination" industry; unschoolers can note they covered the "evolution" requirement in biology courses by taking the kid to the natural history museum and reading Bob Bakker's "The Dinosaur Heresies", but A Beka et al wouldn't meet that requirement as they refuse to cover evolutionary theory in favour of young-earth creationism.  Of note, this would also allow Catholic parochial schools to operate; they cover evolutionary theory.)

      h) Pass laws akin to HR 5876 that would shut down coercive facilities, and strengthen existing laws requiring formal licensing for childcare facilities.

      i) Apply the successful inter-broadcaster agreement between radio networks (which essentially shut down the early televangelism industry, and with it the early dominionist movement, for a number of years until TV networks were established) to all broadcast media, and get cable providers and satellite owners on board as well.  (Basically, the agreement that was passed stated that no televangelist material would be broadcast unless it were officially sanctioned by the main governing body of a denomination.  Admittedly, this would not stop things as effectively now (especially with the steeplejacking of the SBC), but effectively shuts down the "name it and claim it" folks who are the major broadcast voice of dominionism.)

      j) In relation to i), revoke licenses and bar licensing to those groups found to be violating FCC regs on nonprofit groups (one requirement could be that any group being a nonprofit broadcaster must provably be a 501(c)3 exempt group in good standing or provably a local community group in the case of LPFM broadcasters).  Major review of all licenses in translator and educational broadcast services, with permanent bar on those groups found to have used translators and LPFM stations for "distant translators".  (For that matter, removal of the legal loophole allowing nonprofits to operate "distant translators".)

      k) In relation to j) and i) above, massive overhaul of licensing for international shortwave broadcast service including intensive review of all licensees and permanent revocation of all FCC licenses for groups found to be illegally broadcasting to the US (shortwave broadcasters in the US are not allowed to target material to the US, but practically all do anyways save for the Voice of America--and practically all US-based shortwave broadcasting is hardline dominionist at best).

      Again, this will be an effort over decades--and we may well never entirely get rid of the problem--but it's a start.  (Keep in mind this has had something like 100 years to fester in the US with little or no effective checks; it'll take at least that long to fix.)

      •  Impressive list of specific policies (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I want to congratulate you on being able to articulate specific policies that should be introduced as bills in Congress and state houses. So many people, myself included, have only vague ideas about what needs to be done.

        Anti-dominionism really should be part of the Democratic Party platform. Mainstream Christians and probably more than a few theologically conservative Christian denominations are in just as much danger from dominionists as non-Christians.

        Also, several of the things you mention are esoteric enough that I doubt they'd draw a lot of flak from anyone but the dominionists themselves and their pet legislators. Inserted into or tacked on as amendments to even tangentially-related bills, they'd be likely to escape scrutiny, especially if we could successfully argue that they don't mandate anything, only forbid things.

        Even if the dominionists put up a fight, they'd only attract attention to themselves, what they're doing, and what their goals are, and like you've said in many of your previous diaries, dominionism relies on isolation from the mainstream. All the more reason for a few courageous legislators at the federal, state, and local levels to take stands against dominionism.

        The Collapse is coming; be prepared -

        by Visceral on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:22:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Frankly (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I think our best shot of getting any awareness of this is if somebody jumps the gun, one of the more out there groups decides the Signs have been revealed and it's time to claim their immortality.

        You start talking about this stuff in a room of intelligent people, and you can literally watch their opinion of you drop as the words come out of your mouth.  The idea that there's a literal conspiracy to take over the US government is just too out there, people drop their "tin foil" filters.  No matter how tangentially you approach it, sooner or later you have to start talking about the takeover of the SBC and the southern state GOP organizations, and at that point they hit their boggle limit.

        That is the biggest problem: The whole idea sounds fantastic.  Sure, there's plenty of documentation that shows them detailing exactly what their plans are, and plenty showing they've been executing it for the last 30 years.  But fundamentalist cultists conspiring to take over the government?  That's just too wierd to take seriously.

        •  People may be a bit more open now. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Neon Vincent

          Compared to 1999 or 2000, people are actually rather more open to this than they have been in past--ironically, we may well have George W. Bush to thank for this, due to his overt sympathy with and overtures towards dominionists.

          Heck, it's actually fairly well acknowledged among exit counselors and researchers that "Bible-based" groups can go bad, increasingly well-acknowledged that a number of the groups at the heart of the neopente dominionist movement qualify as essentially "Bible-based" coercive religious groups, and it's now recognised that there are enough of us multigenerational walkaways out there (which is the big reason there is such a push for isolation in dominionist groups) that formal studies are being conducted on how our issues differ from those of walkaways at large.  That's a pretty big sea change right there.

          We're also finally having people write books about some of the creepier aspects of dominionism (like Sharlet's book about "The Family", or Matt Taibbi's expose of Hagee's church in "The Great Derangement").  There are no less than ten dedicated communities online to fighting dominionism--including at least two walkaway communities and two broader "fighting dominionism" communities on alone as well as Talk to Action, Military Religious Freedom Foundation, and Jews On First--this is in addition to the longstanding groups like People for the American Way, Americans United, The Interfaith Alliance, and the more walkaway-focused communities and activist groups like,, Children's Safe Passage Foundation, RISE International...and that's not counting exit counselors doing specific research on coercive dominionist groups.

          ...when I first found out that I grew up in a potentially abusive group, when I was first working to educate people in the mid-90s about this stuff, there was all of one community (which is now defunct) focusing on this besides PFAW and Americans United--the old Institute for First Amendment Studies, which also operated what was de facto the first dedicated walkaway forum for escapees from neopentecostal dominionism.  

          This was an era where even exit counselors were only starting to recognise that "Bible-based" groups, especially neopente dominionist groups, could and did "go bad" in the same way Scientology could--and because I was an escapee from a major denomination in the movement, I sometimes found it hard for even walkaway forums to accept that my experience was NOT just a "bad church".  (I literally had people tell me I was exaggerating or had a "bad apple" at points; when info started coming out about the Council for National Policy (thanks to IFAS successfully infiltrating their meetings) and especially when info on the abuses in the "Brownsville Revival" (a "Joel's Army" revival in the 1990s) came out, people were more receptive--but even the CNP stuff tended to make people think of tinfoil-hattery.)

          So, we've come a long way.  Pity we had to survive eight years of Dubya to do that, but ironically the neopente dominionists dropping some of the "public face" once they sensed they had "friendlies" in the White House and Congress did as much to expose things as did stories from walkaways--people began to realise we weren't making this stuff up.

          My only wish is that it could've been stopped a lot earlier--like in the seventies, or in the 80s, or before Dubya got into office.  :P

          •  On The Other Hand (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Huckabee can make a serious run for the GOP nomination, and poise things for the GOP to be taken over entire by his people, and nobody looks into any of this stuff in the media.  Nobody even pays too much attention to Parsley and Hagee, or why McCain is willing to reach out to them so energetically.

            We need some serious, muck-raking investigative journalism.  And before 2012, because my read on the situation says things get really dicy then.

            •  Agreed. (0+ / 0-)

              Oh, I definitely agree that the time is short and there has been precious little attention paid in the MSM (hence why I write like a mofo on this stuff :D).

              And yeah, my ultimate hope is to educate so as to immunise the country against any further sillybuggers (and allow the national patient to recover, so to speak).

              So...anyone wanna forward this to Mr. Olbermann or any other folks with the cojones to bring this into the media? :D

        •  exactly! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          No matter how well reasoned dogemperor, Frederick Clarkson, Chris Rodda,and others sound, it comes off too much like the liberal answer to paranoid conservative ranters like Limbaugh, Scarborough,et al. This could be the reason why the MSM hasn't given the subject a very thorough look.

          I'm at the junction of short, nerdy, and oddly attractive.

          by Pan Zareta on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:07:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Tiresome bores, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    all of them. It seems to be all about vanity, and I am better than you, nanananana.

  •  Tipped and rec'd, as usual (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dogemperor, bythesea

    A bit O/T -- I note that I have several of your diaries hotlisted (back to '06, so far!) but I am wondering whether you've written specifically about the history and formation of the Assemblies churches (rather than their splinter/daughter groups). I'll keep scrolling through your back diaries but if you have one in mind, please give me a link. Thanks so much for these diaries, dogemperor.

    IGTNT: Our war dead. Their stories. Read "I Got the News Today."

    by monkeybiz on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:21:55 PM PDT

  •  Could Hagee possibly (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    fit more feet into his mouth? I hear tell he recently called Hitler "an instrument of God".  If the clueless MSM runs with this, the next sound we hear COULD be that of McCain's campaign circling the drain...

    I'm at the junction of short, nerdy, and oddly attractive.

    by Pan Zareta on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:57:05 AM PDT

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site