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For the record, for all the people who are outraged about Hillary's assassination reference, one person who is in a position to take more offense than most, RFK Jr., took none:

In a statement, Kennedy Jr. said: "It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband's 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/...

Is it possible that we might all consider what RFK Jr had to say and stop the lynch mob sentiments directed toward anybody who expresses anything other than unadulterated fury about Clinton's remarks?

Originally posted to Bipolar Disorder Democrat on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:11 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Please everybody, at least consider it (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wufacta, Hastur, Rogneid, Sanuk, omegajew

    Thanks

    •  This is not about him, it's Obama. (13+ / 0-)

      The dog whistles were for Obama and she didn't apologize to him.
      And this is a repeat offense.

      "Any road followed precisely to its end leads precisely nowhere"

      by soms on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:13:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh (5+ / 0-)

      and I ran out of TR's for today.

      otherwise I'd give your ass a doughnut for bringin "lynch-mob" imagery into this volatile discussion.

      So insensitive, so rude.

      Iraq is John McCain's Viagra. Warning: If your erection lasts more than 100 years, PULL OUT!

      by foxsucks81 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:14:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I tipped you, but (5+ / 0-)

      you should avoid lynching references here. please consider editing the diary; it's in your best interest and everybody else's

      "Senator Obama reminds me of why I'm a Democrat." - Margaret Campbell

      by omegajew on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:19:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You may be right (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Wufacta, Hastur, Sanuk, omegajew, Ivey476

        Still, it's interesting to see the anger and fury directed toward me in the comments in this diary, which appear at least in large part attributable to my failure to share in the group outrage toward Clinton.

        "Lynch mob" may be unfortunately graphic imagery. I'm sorry about that. But, putting aside the horrific history of lynch mobs, there certainly is a gang mentality about this issue that seems very self-righteously determined to stifle all dissenting opinion.

        •  I generally try to stay out (0+ / 0-)

          of these things, but it's hard to support giving voice to a candidate who publicly muses on the most horrifying thing that could happen to a candidate.  Look, I understand what she was trying to say.  But she elected to say it in the most vile, thoughtless, crass form possible without actually suggesting something happening directly to a candidate.  There's a time and place for dissenting opinion.  I am a profound believer in dissenting opinion.  But anyone who defends Clinton in this flap is simply deaf to the heartless, cynical actions of a candidate who has apparently lost her judgment.  

          Her statement deserves condemnation.  Her supporters, whose support I generally respect, need to recognize that some statements are not defensible, and alluding to political assassination in the heat of a primary meets that threshold.

          "This is our moment, this is our time." - John Edwards, 5/14/2008
          Go Democrats Go!

          by socratic on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:48:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What she was TRYING to say (0+ / 0-)

            I see a similar comments all over the blogosphere, giving Clinton the benefit of doubt AGAIN.

            This was not the first time she invoked the assassination of RFK.

            She did it intentionally.

            It is just sick and unforgivable.

            So, I am not surprised at the standard Democrat response of giving benefit of doubt until it's blindingly bright in the face (not just by socratic, but many others).

            But I will not excuse this from Clinton. To me it is a continuation of their kitchen sink attack, which they were brazen enough to announce openly (just before the OH/TX elections).

            She meant exactly what she said. She wasn't trying anything else. She wrapped the assassination reference in the theme of timeline of the primary campaign, but it was intentional. It may be an unhealthy stae of mind from which it emanated (no doubt polluted by the uber-cynical operators like Penn and Lanny Davis). But that is HER problem, not everybody else's.

            During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

            by MAORCA on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:00:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm not excusing her (0+ / 0-)

              Far from it.  But what I heard in the comment was an attempt to justify her candidacy with historical precedent, and she delivered it in a way that was (pick as many as you need) thoughtless, tactless, and heartless.  She could have picked plenty of other examples, but she chose the one that would (a) get her headlines and (b) play on fear.  

              So let me be clearer: I understand what she was trying to say, but what she was trying to say was historically incorrect (as far as the timing of previous campaigns) and simply delusional.  I'm not defending this, either the intent or the action.  

              "This is our moment, this is our time." - John Edwards, 5/14/2008
              Go Democrats Go!

              by socratic on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:06:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What she meant to say included (0+ / 0-)

                the notion that assassination was one of the possibilities.

                That is the reason she is getting so much criticism for it. If you choose to close your eyes to that part of her statement, you corroborate my point that the Democratic disease of giving benefit of doubt until it's so obvious that even the most generous head will explode, is ailing many a soul in the blogosphere at this moment.

                I prefer to believe she said exactly what she meant and vice versa. And that includes the assassination implication.

                During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

                by MAORCA on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:15:02 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Of course (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MAORCA

                  and my eyes are wide open, thanks.  She was trying to scare people into believing that the race can't end yet, and that's a shitty way to run a railroad.

                  "This is our moment, this is our time." - John Edwards, 5/14/2008
                  Go Democrats Go!

                  by socratic on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:17:08 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  except it's very hard to put aside (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mffarrow

          the horrific history of lynch mobs. Especially when we have a candidate who not too long ago would have been targeted by those mobs, and who regularly receives death threats from the intellectual descendants of lynch mob members. Hillary's comment hit a nerve in part because it touched on a fear that I am sure has passed through all of our minds (if only briefly before being forced aside); it was at best tone deaf and insensitive and at worst... well, others here have said what it is at worst, but truly horrific. So while I am interested to here the reaction of RFK, Jr., I am still horrified by her statement, and by your use of lynch mob imagery. Language matters, and using it ineptly can prove to be as destructive as using it maliciously.

          That said, I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge your apology and thank you for it.

          "Senator Obama reminds me of why I'm a Democrat." - Margaret Campbell

          by omegajew on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:48:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  He has neither read nor heard what Hillary said (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Empower Ink, omegajew, MAORCA

      From the NYT caucus blog, this is the next sentence after that statement:

      Mr. Kennedy said he has been traveling and had not seen the video or read Mrs. Clinton’s comments, but said his support of Mrs. Clinton has not wavered.

      RFK, Jr. is a good man.  But right now he is wearing the "Clinton supporter" hat, and that is how I view his statements.

      John Kerry: "The rubber stamp Republicans have now become the Roadblock Republicans"

      by beachmom on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:37:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  She apologized to the Kennedy's (9+ / 0-)

    but not to the Obama's.  They are owed an apology, as are all his supporters.

    And no, RFK Jr. doesn't have the copyright on outrage over this one.  Not at all.

    Iraq is John McCain's Viagra. Warning: If your erection lasts more than 100 years, PULL OUT!

    by foxsucks81 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:13:50 PM PDT

    •  But she wasn't referring to the Obama's (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bipolar Disorder Democrat

      If I were Obama I'd be more offended if she apologized to me.

      •  She needs to apologize to all of us (0+ / 0-)

        who are participating in this process.  Clearly, succinctly, and unambiguously.  What offends me is not the who, but the what: bringing up an assassination as a justification for continuing a campaign ... what the hell?  Is that her sole remaining argument?

        "This is our moment, this is our time." - John Edwards, 5/14/2008
        Go Democrats Go!

        by socratic on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:50:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Honestly, (0+ / 0-)

          my opinion is that she is in the race so she can say that she went the distance with all the primaries.

          •  And I have absolutely no problem with that (0+ / 0-)

            She is a viable candidate with a large base of supporters.  She has every right to stay in the race to the very end if she wishes (and that includes the convention, though I'd hope that if her victory is impossible she would drop out for the good of the party).  But her series of gaffes ("hard working Americans, white Americans") and the disturbing comments of some of her supporters (particularly Ferraro's unsupported accusations of sexism on the part of Obama) have turned her from an honored adversary in the ring to a bar brawler who picks fights in back alleys.  

            I think all politicians must have fairly dark humor (see Reagan's "we begin bombing in 5 minutes" mic slip) because of all the crap that they see hurled their way, but this was just thoughtlessness, and she's gone from merely harming herself and her legacy to harming the integrity of the Democratic primary with her trips into the surreal.

            "This is our moment, this is our time." - John Edwards, 5/14/2008
            Go Democrats Go!

            by socratic on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:02:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  When you're (0+ / 0-)

              on the campaign trail for 18 months, and are constantly talking about various subjects, then you will from time to time say stupid things, that can be interpreted in worse ways than they were meant. And when you have hundreds of surrogates and supporters on the trail with you for these 18 months, they will from time to time say stupid things, that can be interpreted in worse ways than they were meant.

              That's why I don't generally take offense at these things. I agree with Obama: "gotcha" politics are costly for this nation and distract us from the issues that actually matter.

              •  There are gaffes (0+ / 0-)

                and there are monumental fuckups.  So I come back to my original position when I read about this: even assuming this was an honest mistake (an assumption I do not credit), it shows a profound lack of judgment under stress.  There are things that even the most exhausted person should know are going to play poorly.  

                I'm of two minds about this whole thing.  On the one hand, I object to the heartless statement in and of itself.  Beyond that, though, I recognize it as another in a bizarre string of comparisons that Clinton has unleashed this week.  She's playing a desperation game now, and it's not pleasant to watch.

                "This is our moment, this is our time." - John Edwards, 5/14/2008
                Go Democrats Go!

                by socratic on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:24:46 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's a dumb comment (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Bipolar Disorder Democrat

                  I can only relate to my own personal experiences.

                  I'm generally a pretty quiet guy in real life but I've said things before that later someone told me had offended them, that I didn't realize were offensive. For example, once I used the term "backward" to describe third world countries. Looking back on it, with the context of trying to judge whether it was appropriate, I realize it was a horrendous thing to say. But I was so wrapped up in the point I was making (about wealth and democracy) that I wasn't thinking of how my word choice would play to others.

                  But it was not as bad as it could have been because I'm generally a pretty inoffensive person. It would be worse if people had preconceived notions of my character. And this is what I think happened in this case: people have already formed opinions of Senator Clinton as someone who would say outrageous things, and this comment reinforces existing perceptions. But while there have certainly been things she has done which have disappointed me, I really disagree with both the extent of those existing perceptions and the misinterpretations of today's comments.

                  •  I get what you're saying (0+ / 0-)

                    Hell, I'm a white guy from the south, and I referred to a young, black politician in my state as "articulate" completely and totally in good faith, and I was horrified when someone quietly told me the subtext of that word.  As someone who likes to make references to our ape lineage when discussing this or that human behavior, I was spared a horrific gaffe when my higher brain functions kicked in and prevented me from saying an African-American coworker's kid was a .... well, put two and two together.  We all say stupid shit.

                    The difference between you (and I would bet money that you are a kind, decent person, just based on statistics, which are supported by things like your comment here) and Hillary Clinton are vastly different creatures in function.  She is a wholly political animal.  It's a big difference.

                    "This is our moment, this is our time." - John Edwards, 5/14/2008
                    Go Democrats Go!

                    by socratic on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:39:49 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  btw (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Wufacta

                      my comment to my coworker was 100% positive and would have been cute and endearing if my words were stripped of their baggage.  But our words, unfortunately, carry baggage.

                      "This is our moment, this is our time." - John Edwards, 5/14/2008
                      Go Democrats Go!

                      by socratic on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:40:53 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  But if you repeat a stupid comment (0+ / 0-)

                  how is it a gaffe?  Bosnia-gate, anyone?

      •  She was referring to Obama. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bornadem, MAORCA

        She was making an analogy in her race against Obama.

        Iraq is John McCain's Viagra. Warning: If your erection lasts more than 100 years, PULL OUT!

        by foxsucks81 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:50:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  then what (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bornadem, MAORCA

        the hell was she talking about?  "party unity has nothing to do with anything,(question asked) I need to stay in 'cause sometimes people die, now I don't mean this example to mean Obama, because why would he have anything to do with me staying in or not?"

        It makes zero sense that the illusion was not directed toward Obama.  The only reson to bring the death of RFK as a reason to stay in is that he died...unless she meant that she has to stay in just in case what she dies?  Again, no sense.  

      •  Seriously????? (0+ / 0-)

        If I were Obama I'd be more offended if she apologized to me.

        I mean, that makes almost as much sense as the Hillary supporters saying that she was referring to herself in today's comments.

        I'm just glad the reality-based view and all of its metrics favor my candidate.  I'm just not flexible enough for all of the contortions required to support her.

  •  Here is my honest problem, Bipolar (6+ / 0-)

    I honestly believe it was a gaffe. These things happen pig headed and illadvised though they may be..

    However, I do believe she could have- in her apology displayed some sensitivity. Here is a man who lives under threats of assasination just as she does. She is in a better position to understand than many of us who lead somewhat carefree lives.

    If Hillary cannot comprehend the pain she must have caused to Obama's family (not just the Kennedys) with the RFK statement...it sucks.

    •  That's a fair issue (0+ / 0-)

      The one criticism made of her comments that resonates with me is that it can be read as an invitation to sociopaths. Saying that, I'd note in response to your comment that there is a concept in trials called "ringing the bell" and once the bell is rung, it's best not to ring it again. Had she said something more I'd be concerned that she was doing precisely that.

      •  She has rung this bell more than once (0+ / 0-)

        And I doubt many sociopaths are looking for a statement like this for invitation.  They're fucked up, evil creatures at a basic level, and they don't need an invitation.  Far more vile on a practical level is the degree to which she has lowered the debate - again - with this gaffe.

        "This is our moment, this is our time." - John Edwards, 5/14/2008
        Go Democrats Go!

        by socratic on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:56:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  gaffe? really? at least 4 times? (0+ / 0-)

      While she didn't use the word assassination 2 of those times (right after the Indiana/West Virginia primaries), she did make the same reference, and it was obvious even when she didn't actually use the A word.

      I commented then about it, and it was even more despicable today.  As many people are pointing out, she could always get back in if something -- anything -- happened to Obama's candidacy... it's not a one-way door.

      I'm outraged by these comments.  I'm embarrassed to watch my middle-aged feminist "sisters" blindly (and LOUDLY) support her without using any critical thinking skills.  And I'm sorry I ever respected her.

      But now it's DEFINITELY a one-way door.

      •  I am not *defending* her (0+ / 0-)

        I am merely expressing my view that the alternative- that Hillary is actually wishing or hoping something bad happens to Obama is something so evil, that I cannot associate it with any sane human.

        •  well, there's bad and then there's BAD... (0+ / 0-)

          Obviously, we'd all like to think Hillary was talking more along the lines of a political misstep, or some kind of campaign-ending scandal (sex, money, whatever).  

          And she could have tried to say something more oblique that would have illustrated that.

          But when you mention Bobby Kennedy, primary, and June -- even WITHOUT explicitly using the word "assassination" -- there's only one scene  in everyone's mind.  A victory speech in a famous hotel.  Then another scene... a coffin.  More children made fatherless by an assassin's bullet.

          She may -- MAY -- be a more sane human being than to wish for an unspeakable tragedy from which she might benefit.

          But she's obviously blinded by ambition, and tone-deaf as well.  So if she became president, the White House would need a lot of ADA retrofitting.

  •  No (7+ / 0-)

    This has clearly touched a raw nerve, opened a national wound and brought the fears many of us had tried to keep in check to the surface.  For her to fail to understand that not once, but several times, speaks to her fitness for this office.  The Obama family is owed an apology-even Hucakbee managed that.  

    Hillary Clinton, running for President of the Relevant States of America!

    by MufsMom on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:20:23 PM PDT

  •  Problem Is, It's the 3rd Time (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bornadem, Rogneid, god doc

    She and her team are proving to have a very Fawlty ear.

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    Somebody tell her, don't mention the assassinations.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:28:31 PM PDT

  •  Just Hillary being Hillary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MAORCA

    This is just another person excusing Hillary for being Hillary, politely suggesting that Hillary couldn't possibly mean what her words or actions suggest. The Obama camp has be doing this once or twice a week since Hillary hoisted the kitchen sink.

    Time to call it what it is folks: sociopathic.

  •  Is This One Of Those McCain Diaries (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ThatsNotFunny

    we have been warned about?

  •  Saying "we should hang Obama" is (0+ / 0-)

    equivalent to saying "we should rape Hillary Clinton". Or "we should push McCain's wheelchair down the stairs."

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