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I know I'm going to get a lot of something or other for posting this, as it's obviously time for someone like me to "get over it".

So show me your ways.  Show me how, in your comments, you can heal those things that were broken.

Broken things don't heal overnight, especially when we really believe in the things that got broken.

Telling us "to get over it" is like listening our parents to tell us the same things, while we're thinking "what do YOU know about how we feel".  No-one likes to be told that their feelings and opinions don't matter anymore.  That we MUST get over them.  Just put yourselves back to the people who told you to do so, and tell me if that rung true with you at that time.

Anyway, here is how I feel right now.  And yes, I'm posting a pro or past Hillary diary here, breaking the boycott.

I do so because some subjects, aside from Hillary and Obama, are coming back onto the Recommend List.  Things we all should be paying attention to.

But here is how I feel.  Knock away at me.  I don't care.

I'm 56. I've had decades of a life full of experiences, and my current opinions are based on all of those years and experiences.  At this point in my life, I can no longer turn on a dime, like I could when I was younger.

Too much has happened since I was the rebellious youngster I was back in the 60's and 70's, when I fought for the rights many nowadays take for granted.  Equal rights for Women, Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, Asians, Gays and Lesbians, and any other minority that was being discriminated against. My heart and soul was fully committed to this fight for equality, and still is to this very day.

We did accomplish quite a bit back then, but to a lot of us, right now, it looks like no-one remembers the achievements we faught for back then and act as if they just appeared out of the blue sky. And, against all your denials, Hillary and Bill were on the forefront of these battles back then.

This it's why it's so hard for me to all of a sudden accept Obama.  He's done NOTHING to acknowledge the part Hillary and Bill played in raising up millions African Americans, Hispanics, Gays and Lesbians.  These were some of their legacies.

To re-paint them as bigots was the most despicable thing I have ever seen in a campaign.  How could he?

If I'm wrong, please tell us so.

But, I'm still rebellious, even at my age, and at this point, having watched things for decades, I, as an old-timer, cannot support a candidate that has been sold to us like candy bar  on a TV Ad.

Our "preferred" candidate, Barack Obama,  gives us nothing to back up his speeches with actions so far.  He's anyone's "dream" only in terms that he has NO solid positions (video below).  He is the very creation of forces he "supposedly" wants to fight against.  I see no proof of him even achieving an inch of that so far.

Who are these people?

New innovators, hope and changers?  

Axelrod?  Just Google him.

Other long-time establishment people, some of them former presidential primary losers?

Gary Hart, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, John Edwards, Carter, Al Gore, Dean, Nancy Pelosi (current congress, anyone?  People with  the spines to help bring about change?)

Are they NOT the very old group of people he talks about replacing? While they are the very power players that brought him to where is his now?

The hope and change of at least hoping things will change, and putting all of our trust into it?

Well, this old-timer cannot turn on a dime, like I said.  Too much life has gone by.  Too many choices have been made: integrity or convenience.

I'm not there, and I'm not sure I can make this transition into an even more idol-seeking, brainless (although hopeful) society.  I'll stick to my life experiences for now.

WHAT hope and change has he really brought to us?.

And what are these things he said along his campaign trail?  You tell me.

Originally posted to Gabriele Droz on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:16 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  You Mean Except All Those Times (16+ / 0-)

    This it's why it's so hard for me to all of a sudden accept Obama.  He's done NOTHING to acknowledge the part Hillary and Bill played in raising up millions African Americans, Hispanics, Gays and Lesbians.  These were some of their legacies

    You mean except all those times he said Hillary has been fighting for her whole life for the causes that were most important to "us" [meaning Democrats and Progressives].

    What exactly is he supposed to do besides endlessly repeating it.  Is he supposed to commission a statue or something?  What in your mind qualifies as "acknowledging" something he's said publicly dozens of times?

    ---- now they sit and rattle their bones and think of their bloodstone days...

    by TooFolkGR on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:18:15 PM PDT

  •   (0+ / 0-)

    John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.

    by IhateBush on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:20:20 PM PDT

  •  You put in too many subjective descriptions... (23+ / 0-)

    ...to get a real response. Sold to us like a "candy bar?"

    C'mon.

    That's disrespectful and frankly not something someone looking for any sort of reapproachment whatsoever would say.

    As far as the "loser Obama meme," check recent polls.

    As far as the "why should I accept Obama?" question, again, you need to cut out the insults if you want that to be answered, I think.

    (-2.75, -4.92) | Hillary isn't the opponent anymore.

    by Addison on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:21:23 PM PDT

  •  throwing Carter, Gore, Kerry, (18+ / 0-)

    Kennedy, and Dean in there with the spineless Democratic Congress is unfair.

    Especially Carter and Gore, who have shown themselves to possess a degree of moral courage and vision that our standard issue politicians (Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama included) have not demonstrated, and who have had that courage and vision recognized by the Nobel Prize for Peace.

  •  And to say Obama "gives us nothing (16+ / 0-)

    to back up his speeches with action so far" shows a real lack of knowledge on your part.

    You need to look at his record of service--as a community organizer, a civil rights attorney, a Constitutional law professor, a state senator, a US senator, and an author.

    How hard can it be?

    "Whatever America hopes to bring to pass in the world must first come to pass in the heart of America." --Dwight Eisenhower

    by Dragon5616 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:22:49 PM PDT

  •  Just a hunch (8+ / 0-)

    but I would wager that people have answered your questions and you already know what the answers are.

    The election is not until November. So, welcome back, relax, hang around and make yourself comfortable. I think that you will find the desire to try and sway your choice and argue with you over Sen. Obama & Sen. Clinton has diminished quite a bit.

  •  Take a look at her past (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RNinNC, Fairy Tale, MariaWr, foufou

    Please help to ban me. Hotlist
    by Gabriele Droz [Subscribe]
    Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:20:14 AM EDT

    I want to get off this blog, so that Kos can no longer count me in as a subscriber/member.

    Since there is no option to unsubscribe from here, other than getting troll-rated, please do me a favor and troll-rate me into oblivion so I can stop being counted as a Kos blog subscriber.

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    I would urge people to help do what she wanted us to do.

    John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.

    by IhateBush on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:22:55 PM PDT

  •  Give it a fucking rest. (6+ / 0-)

    Get creative: write another diary about Russert, anything but this warmed-over shit casserole.

    What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

    by melvin on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:23:20 PM PDT

  •  This is absurd (6+ / 0-)

    You don't put up any evidence to back up your claims. You just show a collection of attacks on Obama, what does this prove?

    If I was a dehydrated baby, I wouldn't want bottled hot water from John McCain!

    by Fairy Tale on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:24:39 PM PDT

  •  picked the wrong person (4+ / 0-)

    Are you trying to tell us Dems picked the wrong person? If so, I don't think you're going to get too many here to agree with you about it.

    If I were running in this election, I'd be for change too. - George W. Bush

    by William Domingo on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:25:35 PM PDT

  •  Vote for him, or not (13+ / 0-)

    Your choice.  He has a website that can give you whatever info you need.

    John McCain: Vowing to connect real leaders with real bowels

    by chicago minx on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:25:38 PM PDT

  •  He organized in Chicago, (12+ / 0-)

    he is bringing out young voters, and is doing massive voter registration drives. He speaks to the need to contribute energy and time and resources to build a coalition. These efforts are valuable, and matter. Our ("our" being the Democratic Party) candidate is not perfect, and I hate the "rock star" thing. But, if it brings people out, and engages them in the process, so be it.  

    I absolutely respect your political beliefs, and life experiences. Perhaps you might want to respect the life experience and beliefs of others as well, even when they lead them to a different candidate or place. If I disengaged everytime my preferred candidate didn't win the primaries, I probably would almost never have voted. Hell, In CA my preferred candidate usually is already gone before I even get to vote.

    Peace. And votes in November.

    Not a Cent to those who won't fight torture.

    by not a cent on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:27:54 PM PDT

  •  I knew quite well what the consequences (4+ / 0-)

    of me posting this diary would be.

    Then again, it's an opportunity for you all to show that you can understand the same feelings you would have if Obama had lost.

    And again, it's an opportunity to show grace and promote the message Obama puts forth:  Unity.

    Some of you truly get it.  Others don't.

    It does not take many words to tell the truth. - Chief Joseph - Nez Perce

    by Gabriele Droz on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:28:54 PM PDT

    •  Heart of the problem: (21+ / 0-)

      Believe it or not, the presidential election is about more than your feelings.

      What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

      by melvin on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:30:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Does seem to be a lot (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maracuja, Dragon5616, foufou

        of personal investment this year. Well, on the Dem side, anyway. Not so much with the Repubs. : )

        Not a Cent to those who won't fight torture.

        by not a cent on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:32:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is completely understandable, but my god (10+ / 0-)

          it is just getting so ridiculously self-indulgent now.

          What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

          by melvin on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:33:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wait until it gets to be your turn Melvin. (0+ / 0-)

            And we'll see how you respond.

            It does not take many words to tell the truth. - Chief Joseph - Nez Perce

            by Gabriele Droz on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:20:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Assuming Melvin is a Democrat (3+ / 0-)

              I'm hoping it won't be his turn this year. And I'll also assume that Melvin, like all of us, has strongly believed in a candidate who lost.

              Not a Cent to those who won't fight torture.

              by not a cent on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:23:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  We've all had "our turn"! (11+ / 0-)

              Jeezus. All of us have experienced disappointment in primaries!

              You act as if you've had your head shaved and been marched naked through the middle of town.

              Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

              by bumblebums on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:24:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hell, I had a turn *this* primary. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Avila

                As someone who graduated from the school where Wellstone was a prof for 20 years, I really wanted to see another grassroots activist type in the Senate, so Merkeley defeating Novick for OR-Sen was a downer. Oh well. I just hope that:

                1. Merkeley beats Smith, and
                1. Franken takes Wellstone's seat back.

                Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse ... then that would make him ...

                Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                by Jyrinx on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 01:18:00 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  If he's half as far left as I am (6+ / 0-)

              then he's long since familiar with it.

              Barack Obama is the first ever primary candidate I supported who won. The first ever. I have dragged myself to the voting booth time and again to vote for people who have turned around and either ignored or betrayed causes that are extremely important to me. Obama will disappoint me too, in fact he already has a couple of times, but he's head and shoulders better than the other candidates I wound up voting for.

              Like Hillary he did it by soundly beating a group of talented, qualified white men. It's unfortunate that we had two history-making candidates and we had to choose one, but we did and we have.

              Also, it does not follow that the candidate I didn't want to win was so void of talent as you want to believe Obama is, against all evidence. I took the time and effort to learn to appreciate what Clnton and Gore and Kerry and even Dukakis and Mondale would bring to the table. They just weren't my first or even second choices.

              If you want to know what concrete acknowledgement Obama has made of the Clintons' contributions, by the way: he busted his ass to launch an unprecedented and wildly successful GOTV drive in Chicago that ended up tipping the state of Illinois into Clinton's column in 1992. He has given Bill Clinton the ultimate tribute by running as Bill Clinton, "the man from Hope," remember? The young upstart with the mesmerizing oratorical skills and encyclopedaic knowledge?

              No laws but Liberty. No king but Conscience.

              by oldjohnbrown on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 10:57:44 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  How far back do you want to go? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Avila

              Carl Maxey's run against Scoop Jackson? On through to Kucinich.

              I've been on the losing side since before I could vote.

              It's been my fucking turn my whole goddamned life. This isn't some new thing for me.

              What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

              by melvin on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 11:29:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yep, me too (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Avila, melvin

                Hart, Tsongas, Bradley, Dean....

                I get so sick of that friggin' line.

                I loved Howard Dean. I thought he would've been an absolutely fantastic President. Most of my fellow Dem primary/caucus voters disagreed with me. I GOT THE FUCK OVER IT.

                You bet your ass I'm bitter. And, yes, middle-america 'values' voters, you *have* been duped. Obama's right. And I'm bitter as hell.

                by ChurchofBruce on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 12:12:24 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  At the start of this mess (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Avila, melvin, CandyKat

              Clinton was #4 on my list and Obama was #5.  As the race progressed, and my favorites went down, I moved Obama up a notch because of the ill prepared campaign Clinton ran, and the Republican tone it took on.  If she had been the nominee, I still would have supported her wholeheartedly, because the alternative to a Democrat in the White House is madness.

              I support the Democratic nominee.  If you don't, then you need to examine your reason for being a Democrat.  If you still can't support the nominee after that, and after Clinton asked all her supporters to back him, then none of us can help you.

              Don't confuse this confusion with disorganization, because we're not that organized yet. -5.13/-3.38

              by Grannus on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 03:57:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  "Consequences?" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dragon5616

      These comments represent a tepid response to a diary that, apparently from this comment, was merely a provocative exercise that sought only to prove its author's preconceptions.

      Obama is a secret ultra-Liberal Republican messianic Antichrist who will institute a socialist regime that will sell out all our resources to the corporations!

      by Addison on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:32:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If Obama had lost I would now be (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Elise, JoeW, Dragon5616

      supporting Clinton.  

      "We should be able to deliver hot bottled water to dehydrated babies." John McCain

      by llamaRCA on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:33:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As I now support Obama (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lying eyes, limpidglass

        but you would have to be willfully blind not to see that there would be a tremendous number of sore losers, if Hillary had won.  Nevertheless, the shoe is on the other foot, and though I disagree with her conclusion, I have a lot of the same concerns about Obama that Gabriele has.  

        He DOESN'T have much experience, he HAS said things that were (at best) exaggerations about his personal history that if Hillary had said them, this place would be aboil with outrage.  He WAS marketed like a candy bar.  I see in him a media creation that I fervently hope will work out better for us than the last media creation we elected to office.  I think he will, but more importantly for me, the alternative is unthinkable.

        Unlike Gabriele, I have moved on, but I won't forget the subtext for women's rage.  To be called the "dry-pussy" demographic or the many other names older women supporters of Hillary were called, for example, is hideously outrageous.  It was stunning and hurtful and nasty to realize our worthlessness to this society and especially this party and even more especially to a candidate who allegedly prides himself on inclusiveness -- yet does nothing to put a stop to it.  Don't underestimate the insult that these women feel.  A little respect will go a long way.  

        First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi

        by flo58 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:53:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I would be upset if Hillary won because of the (0+ / 0-)

          tactics her campaign employed, not because she performed better in the various primaries and caucuses and won sufficient delegates.

          "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

          by lordcopper on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:10:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Who cares why in the end? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lordcopper

            It is what it is.  There are plenty of HRC supporters who resent how the Obama campaign drove a wedge between the Clintons and the AA community as well as supporters who felt they were called racist because they preferred HRC to Obama.  But Obama won and it really doesn't matter why or how in the end -- the winner is the winner and you either back (or at least vote for) the winner or you don't.  So if HRC had won,regardless of how you felt about her tactics, you would have had the same choice that Hillary supporters have -- to vote for Hillary or McCain.    

            First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi

            by flo58 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:19:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Obama did not drive a wedge (4+ / 0-)

              between the AA community and HRC. Absolutely untrue.

              •  Perception is an amazing thing. (0+ / 0-)

                in that it depends upon the point of view of the perceiver.  You say potayto I say potahto and all of that.  It is not a matter of truth or lies.  Obama's campaign drove a wedge and was amazingly skillful at doing it, too.  It is part of what gives me hope for his withstanding Republican attacks.  It shows tactical smarts.  It was a necessary, though not sufficient, condition to his victory in the race.

                First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi

                by flo58 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:38:53 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  People's perceptions can truly be amazing. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  blueness

                  Can you give me examples of how Obama drove a wedge? I'd like to understand how you came to that conclusion.

                  •  You really need to, because if you don't (3+ / 0-)

                    you won't understand why some Hillary supporters resent Obama.  

                    It is all surrounding the SC primary and how things that HRC said were taken out of context, quotes were truncated to make her seem like she was denigrating civil rights activists when full quotes show nothing of the sort.  The Obama campaign played these up to make Hillary, in the end, look like just another white candidate using "dog whistle tactics" to appeal to racist white instincts to defeat Obama.  This was unfair to her on many levels, but it worked.  Obama's campaign promoted this view at every possible moment.  In the end, the wedge was driven.  

                    Then, of course, there were the threats made by people like Jesse Jackson, the younger (not sure if it is Jr. or the III) to "primary" AA politicians who supported Hillary -- eg Lewis.  That kind of stuff drove the wedge deeper.    

                    First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi

                    by flo58 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 10:24:41 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I know this is pressing it (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      blueness

                      But can you cite specific examples, or links? Because it was the media that jumped on it in my mind, and the media doesn't equate to the Obama campaign. And really, Hillary didn't help herself out with the working, hard-working Americans, white Americans thing. That is clearly dog-whistling.

    •  "truly get it" (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Elise, lordcopper, llamaRCA, Dragon5616

      What I truly get is that we have a Democratic nominee, and a Republican one who every day shows how disastrous he would be as president.

      If Hillary were the nominee, I would support her with my vote, time, and efforts. Because she would be the nominee of my party.

      What I see from your diary is that you can't say the same. That's your choice, and I'd respect it if you didn't also include slams at Obama that I think are absurd.

    •  Listen to me. You're still in grief over your (15+ / 0-)

      candidate's loss, and I'm not begrudging your grief. It took me a full month to get over Howard Dean's loss.

      You know how committed you are to Hillary, and how strongly you believe in her? That's the same extent of passion and commitment we Obama supporters have for our candidate. I respect your passion and commitment, and I wish you would extend us the same courtesy.

      I'm not pushing you to join us anytime soon, because judging by the tone of your diary, you're still in the midst of your grief and disappointment. You need time, and if you need anything else, you can e-mail me anytime at pleasehelpfreebarneythedog at gmail dot com.

      I'm here to listen.

    •  After your behavior on this site and on others... (4+ / 0-)

      After all you've said and done to destroy Obama....

      After disparaging this site and its members....

      AND after this sad diary, filled with accusations against Obama and veiled insults to his supporters....

      You want US to start the Unity Dance?

      You demand that WE prove to YOU that we're serious about unity?

      I am serious about unity with former Clinton supporters.

      However, as for you and those like you who did their fucking damnedest to plants seeds of division and to fan flames of hate, I desire no unity with you.

      This diary shows me one thing and one thing only: you're still more concerned with your own feelings and getting your ass kissed than you are with the Democratic party.

      When that changes, welcome back.

      Until then, kindly fuck off.

      "Someone wants a knife fight; someone I'm lookin' at." --Master Shake

      by TheBlaz on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:50:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not the end of the freaking world, ffs (7+ / 0-)

      Your candidate lost the primary. It happens ALL THE TIME. To all of us. You do the right thing - dust yourself off and support the Democrat. It's so bloody obvious.

      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:50:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  it's funny (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    moiv, blueyedace2, flo58, statistic

    I find myself in agreement with you in one regard: Obama does not represent real change, is inexperienced, and is the candidate of the monied interests.

    But I disagree in another regard: Hillary Clinton was the same as Obama.

    They were both the same center-left moderates, both similarly inexperienced, and both were corporatists.

    The only difference was one of style and the country chose on the basis of style because there was no real difference of substance between them.

    Hillary Clinton played the old 90s-style triangulation, Barack Obama played the new-style triangulation suited to the Internet age. Not surprisingly, the new won out over the old in a "change" election. That's all that happened.

  •  Oh, for goodness sake (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise, My mom is my hero, CandyKat

    Our "preferred" candidate, Barack Obama,  gives us nothing to back up his speeches with actions so far.  He's anyone's "dream" only in terms that he has NO solid positions (video below).

    He's not President yet. What actions should he take other than votes as a Senator?

    If you want his policy positions, visit his website. Or listen to his speeches with an unbiased ear.

    Did you hear his response to the "9/10 viewpoint" smears today? He was stronger and more accurate than any Democratic candidate I've heard in years.

    Listen, I've gotten to vote for Hillary twice for Senate. She was not my preferred candidate in this primary, and I don't think I have anything to answer for in my support of Obama in this process. I won't apologize for it, or accept your contention that his behavior was the "worst" of anything.

    It could be we just don't have any common ground anymore. I'm just happy, thrilled, to have a candidate I respect and admire, who's going to be President in November.

  •  Do any of you really want us here (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    flo58, bubbanomics

    discussing why we're hurt, or not?  Would you not feel the same way if Obama had lost against Hillary?  Would you all just line up behind her because some of us would tell you to "get over it"?

    It does not take many words to tell the truth. - Chief Joseph - Nez Perce

    by Gabriele Droz on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:32:45 PM PDT

    •  Yes, I would vote for Hillary. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hhex65, Dave Brown, Elise, blueyedace2

      Yes, I would get over it.

      "We should be able to deliver hot bottled water to dehydrated babies." John McCain

      by llamaRCA on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:35:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  easy to say (0+ / 0-)

        now that the contest is done and Obama's the victor.

        But there were a lot of people here who said Hillary was worse than McCain and swore not to vote for her had she won the nomination. And had Obama lost, many of them would be nursing resentments and anger as deep as this diarist.

        I don't object to anyone's feeling as they do. It was a hard-fought contest and there's bound to be hard feelings on the losing side.

        •  limpidglass (7+ / 0-)

          I would have voted for HRC.  I wouldn't have been overjoyed to do so.  I would never vote for McCain.

          I would not have written a diary smearing HRC while moaning about how much I loved Obama with the intent of getting everyone to pat my hand and tell me I'm so super and how Obama was just the best candidate ever.

          I have no quarrel with you.  Sorry if I sound cranky.  I feel strongly that in a political contest there will always be a loser and sometimes I'll back that loser (Edwards and Dean) and that sucks but I have to keep my eye on the ball.  The ultimate opponent is the Republican.

          "We should be able to deliver hot bottled water to dehydrated babies." John McCain

          by llamaRCA on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:47:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  as I said: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            flo58, llamaRCA

            one thing to say what you would have done if things had turned out different. Quite another to be forced to do it.

            What is needed now is sensitivity and magnanimity towards the losing side. Gracious losers--those are commonplace. Gracious victors, however, are much rarer.

            What the diarist is doing now is expressing her last remaining anger and hurt, just after the contest is concluded. Give her a few months, and she may be feeling quite differently.

            I agree that we must be united to beat McCain and nothing is more than that. So towards that end, isn't it worth it just to let the diarist blow off a little steam?

    •  If you just want to rehash old arguements (5+ / 0-)

      then the answer is no. Sure we know what it feels like to have our candidate lose, we are democrats after all.

      Are you welcome here, of course. Are we going to argue about the past when the future is so important, no.

    •  You came here (7+ / 0-)

      obstensibly looking for information to make you feel better about Obama as the Democratic nominee.  It sounds, however, like you want someone to hold your hand and agree with all the reasons you site for not supporting him and to commiserate with you over the loss of your preferred candidate.

      This site has moved on from the primaries.  I cannot recall the last time anyone told anyone else to "get over it."  Most of us never said it in the first place.

      If you have substantive, specific questions ask and they'll be answered.  Otherwise, respectfully, I don't understand what you want.

      161302 ~ better late than never

      by My mom is my hero on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:40:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wait... (8+ / 0-)

      ...is this just a diary that seeks to provoke anti-you comments that you can turn around and cite in an anti-Obama, anti-Dkos diary on some other website?

      It increasingly seems that way.

      Again, you insulted many of us by saying we support a candidate that was sold to us like a candy bar.

      The question is do YOU really want to be here. Obviously you're ambivalent, at best.

      Obama is a secret ultra-Liberal Republican messianic Antichrist who will institute a socialist regime that will sell out all our resources to the corporations!

      by Addison on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:42:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes I would... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave Brown, llamaRCA

      because there's too much at stake. The next President must be a Democrat because the Supreme Court is at stake. Forget about Roe, if McShame is elected they'll go after Giswold.

      The lesson of that history is that you must not despair, that if you are right, and you persist, things will change. -Howard Zinn

      by blueyedace2 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:48:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, I'd line up and vote for the nominee (4+ / 0-)

      Just as I did in 2004 when my candidate lost the primary. It's not all about you, Gabriele Droz.

      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:53:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  well, I don't get to vote (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueintheface

      as I'm not american, but I would've thrown my support, fwiw, behind Hillary.

      Like you, Gabriele, I'm a General Clark fan and the fact he was prepared to support Hillary gave her a very compelling reference from my point of view.

      It wasn't enough for me to prefer her to Obama. I just believed Obama had a better chance of getting elected because Hillary had always attracted such vicious attacks from the media and the right wing (it didn't start with her presidential run. It was always there and it was always going to re-surface.)

      But, if she'd come out on top, then I would've consoled myself with the fact General Clark had been right all along and tempered my disappointment with the thought of him probably having a place in her administration. And then done whatever I could from my distant location to stir up enthusiasm for her.

      Now it seems that perhaps General Clark could have a role in an Obama administration, (see the front page of Wes Clark's blog) why not focus on that to cheer yourself and ease the hurt?

  •  Is this a snark diary? (0+ / 0-)

    If it is this issue is too old for this diary to be funny.

    If it isn't snark this issue is too old for this diary to be relevant.

    "We should be able to deliver hot bottled water to dehydrated babies." John McCain

    by llamaRCA on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:32:58 PM PDT

  •  as long as you cast your vote (0+ / 0-)

    for Obama as the Democratic nominee, I have no objection to your feeling any way you wish.

    Your feelings of anger, resentment, and disappointment are certainly not unreasonable and you have every right to them, but please please vote for Obama. A President McCain means the end of our beleaguered republic.

  •  Gabriele, I've got five years on you ... (24+ / 0-)

    ...and we shared time in those fights of the '60s and '70s. I'm going to repeat what I said on February 4, when I "turned on a dime" and backed Senator Obama:

    Since it became obvious he would seek the Presidency, and that he might actually have a chance for the nomination in a year that could turn out to be a Democratic congressional rout, some of what Senator Obama has said has given me pause. One of these has been his take on the struggles of the 1960s. Not his understandable exasperation over how the politics and experiences of the those years in so many ways still permeate political discussion now, but rather a faint whiff of disrespect for the struggles of that era. And, more strongly, the idea that those struggles were won, so let's move on.

    Move on we must. Unlike the right wing, we must not be shackled to the past. However, there is nothing disreputable about the political, cultural and social change that is epitomized in the very phrase "the ‘60s." As Obama rightly says, there is a new generation and new issues to resolve. But there is also a need to renew a few old struggles that never fully succeeded and to protect some victories - like the progressive legacy of the 1930s and the institutionalization of reproductive rights in the 1970s - that are under sharp attack, aided for decades by an ultraconservative, conglomerate media which distorts everything political and creates a false image of everything progressive, including, in particular, the transformation wrought in the ‘60s.

    It is true, as Senator Obama has said, that there were "excesses" in the ‘60s. But, unlike the media caricature, those excesses were a byproduct of the struggles, not their essence.

    For me, as a Popular Front Democrat, a radical democrat – small and capital "d" – politics have always been about far more than elections and legislation. Political parties are only a means to ends, one of which is implementing reforms that originate and are fought over, sometimes for decades, outside the electoral process. Politicians too are a means to ends. They aren’t messiahs. You pick the best one you can within the constraints of the two-party system and of the nominating process and cross your fingers that, if said candidate makes it to the Oval Office, progress will be achieved on most or many or at least some of the issues that matter to you, and there will be no significant back-sliding.

    But you never forget for an instant that your choice is a politician. You are destined for disappointment if you do. Supporters transformed into idolators who attach all their cherished dreams of change to a politician who must inevitably make alliances and compromises will be very disappointed indeed.

    I have reservations, misgivings, worries about Senator Obama. But tomorrow when I cast my ballot, I’ll vote for him. I’ll jettison my doubts and accept the key themes of his campaign: hope and change. I hope he’s willing to go far in shaping a post-Cold War, post-9/11 foreign policy that tosses aside the pernicious myth of American exceptionalism and overcomes the denial that America has an empire, which is not a good thing for the world, or America. I hope to see him go far in separating himself from the corporate forces that influence (and frequently direct) government policy at home and abroad. I hope the changes he initiates for dealing with global warming and health care and prison reform will be a match for his spell-binding oratory. I hope he will avoid falling prey to the myth that race in America has been transcended and that he will renew the fight against racism in its many guises. I hope that he will let no day pass in which he does not seek ways to do something about what John Edwards so rightly labeled the two Americas. I hope he will be braver as a President on gay rights than he has been as a candidate.

    Of course, I know that, if elected, he is unlikely to go as far as I would like in any of these arenas. – just as no President will ever do.

    Nonetheless, as wu ming wrote Sunday in a Diary that said so much so well:

     

    ...the very campaign that [Obama] is running is changing our political reality, right under our feet. I have seen so many people that I know be moved by his words, this campaign. You see it in the tens of thousands of people showing up to his speeches. You can see it in the millions of newly registered voters and the unexpectedly high youth turnouts in the primaries so far. We are at a watershed in American politics, as a younger, more liberal, more diverse generation starts to move into the electorate, and Obama is catching the edge of that wave, and playing to it. As we have seen in South Carolina, where Obama outpolled several Republican candidates put together, the very electoral math in this country could change as a result of the energy he's tapping into and nurturing. Just as how a lot of the laudable changes of the 1960s were spearheaded by people inspired by Kennedy but doing the work at the grassroots (often, ironically enough, with little help or occasional resistance from the not-as-liberal-as-portrayed Kennedy), so too I suspect that if Obama is the Democratic nominee the social movement he's encouraging may well transform this country, quite regardless of what bills he ultimately signs into law.

       You see, it is the congregation, not the preacher, where the real potential for change lies.

    Indeed. If Obama wins come November, it will be up to that grassroots, that congregation, not only to hold his feet to the fire, but also, and more importantly, to press forward the extra-electoral politics which the Freedom Riders employed to bring real hope and real change to America nearly half a century ago.

    As Frederick Douglass once said, "If there is no struggle, there is no progress."

    I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

    by Meteor Blades on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:36:16 PM PDT

    •  I am 56 as well (13+ / 0-)

      I want a Democrat to win in November, period.  I don't get personally invested in  a campaign--I would have been very disappointed if Obama hadn't won, but I still would have been very ready and eager to take the fight to McCain, no matter who our nominee was.

      John McCain: Vowing to connect real leaders with real bowels

      by chicago minx on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:40:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  very well said, Meteor (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      churchylafemme, limpidglass, llamaRCA

      What concerns me most about a "movement" is that the devotees are projecting their ideals onto the candidate.

      But you never forget for an instant that your choice is a politician. You are destined for disappointment if you do. Supporters transformed into idolators who attach all their cherished dreams of change to a politician who must inevitably make alliances and compromises will be very disappointed indeed.

      I am supporting Obama, and I believe that he will bring change to Washington.  But it is still within the context of politics.  Yeah, he's surrounded himself with politicians, and lobbyists and some less favored advisors to less favored presidents, but that's what he has to do. Duh.  If he brought in a whole team of neophytes, it would be a total disaster.  I believe that he has a plan, and that his plan is so much better than McCain's; and better than Clinton's.  He entered the primary well prepared, and picked the right team to take him through the long haul wihtout panicing and by staying on message.

      That, plus the fact that he IS playing the political game with more honesty than we've seen in decades, makes me hopeful.   I feel like I can believe that he will do what he is saying he will do, or will give it his best efforts.  I haven't really believed that of a politician in a long time.

      Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides

      by Wanda517 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:51:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  are you kidding? (4+ / 0-)

    your most recent diary before this one was called Please help to ban me

    This is the entire diary:

    I want to get off this blog, so that Kos can no longer count me in as a subscriber/member.

    Since there is no option to unsubscribe from here, other than getting troll-rated, please do me a favor and troll-rate me into oblivion so I can stop being counted as a Kos blog subscriber.

    I notice that his readership has dropped, and I'd like to show that I'm part of that curve.  This is the first and last post since I began participating in the "writer's strike".

    Good luck to you all, and please troll-rate away.

    Kos sucks.

    and now you have a new diary, and you want people to tell you why you should stay?  enough already.

    although it's getting late, you still have plenty of time

    by maracuja on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:37:27 PM PDT

  •  Give Barack some credit for his accomplishments. (5+ / 0-)

    He HAS legislative accomplishments.

    Your diary is terribly biased and one-sided, no?

    Obama is one of the best leaders to have appeared on the national scene in decades.

    His public life has NOT been just words.  He is about ACTION and he will make changes obviously better for America, immediately, right after taking the oath of office.

    He is the antithesis of Bush and Cheney.  I'm will be proud to call him Our President.

    Nearly the entire world is excited about Barack Obama becoming the 44th U.S. President.  Why aren't you?

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:40:31 PM PDT

  •  We've all lost (5+ / 0-)

    I'm 58.  That's a lot of elections that go back a ways working for progressive candidates who lost.  We've all lost; some more than others.  I don't know how others deal with it, but I get pissed for a while, analyze what I think was unfair, and then do the next right thing.  After Hillary and Barack, there will be other candidates who will need our support and the support of our next generation because they care about our country and its citizens and don't just pretend to care about it while they send our young off to fight in a misguided war, pay billions to their buddies, ride roughshod over the constitution, and then take a victory lap around Europe.
    We just keep doing the next right thing even when we don't "get over it."  

  •  Well............ (12+ / 0-)

    since I am in a mood to remember, and I have a fond place in my heart for Senator Clinton, here is my advice to you, since I have had to take my own advice, you may find it useful.

    John Edwards was my first choice, and when he dropped out I really didn't care who the nominee was, I knew I was a Democrat with a voice that needed to be heard, and I said I would support the nominee, whoeverthehellitwas, and while the folks here twisted and turned, and the rhetoric raised to unseemly levels, I tuned out.

    I did other blogs, I read immense amounts of information, which now seem useless to me, but they were time fillers, and they served me well, in that I managed to allude the shit kicking, the hate mongering, and the candidate bashing that took place here while I was doing all of that, thankfully.

    So, in the end, Barack Obama became our nominee, and although I love Hillary Clinton for her activism, her voice for so many years in politics, and yes because she is a woman (my kind of woman, loud, raucous, and no wallflower) I know it is not her time, or our time.

    It is time for our country to heal, in more ways than this election can ever dictate, and I now embrace it, I am now actually enthralled with the thought of the way Senator Obama speaks to this nation, once was once so divided, it seems now can be so possibly represented as one.  I feel so hopeful.  

    Sounds trite doesn't it?  It does, I admit it, but I honestly, for once in my life, do not mind sounding trite.  I actually have hope, and that trumps trite, or anything else that has precluded his nomimeeship (sp?)

    I hope this has helped you, a little.  I really do.

    The time for bitter partianship is past, we need to have a united voice in Novembe, because if we don't then Bush wins, again.  That is simply unthinkable.

    Sincerely,

    panicbean

    "The first casualty when war comes is the truth." --Sen. Hiram Johnson

    by panicbean on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:46:19 PM PDT

    •  Thank you, panicbean (4+ / 0-)

      You just wrote the comment I was going to make.

      I had to "turn on a dime" when Edwards dropped out. I was pissed that the national media had basically shut him out of the conversation. And it didn't help things when both Hillary and Barack later picked up the very populist points that John had been preaching - as if they were original ideas.

      But that's politics. I turned on that dime because of Donald Rumsfeld, Condi Rice, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and the Chimperor. I can't forget what has happened to the country I love under their malevolent rule. So I will embrace Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and, yes, even Steny Hoyer, God help me, if it means a Democrat sits in the White House come 1/20/09.

      "Respect for the rights of others is peace." Benito Juarez

      by Blue Boy Red State on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:56:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, I know I don't usually post long comments (4+ / 0-)

        or get too involved in the whole pulse of what takes place here, but I recognize the user name, and I know her (?) heart is in the right place, so I went out on that limb and posted my thoughts.

        We have a very close friend here in P'Cola who is a Republican, and would normally vote McCain, but at dinner the other night he whispered in my ear he was voting for Obama.  Why?

        The supreme courts are up for grabs, and he wants them to stay balanced.  He swore me to secrecy, not even to tell dh or his wife, but he swears he will vote for Obama just for that reason alone.

        So, I guess in light of that one voice in my ear, I felt like I should share my thoughts, for someone who is so obviously torn, as I was, in hopes of lending some light to just what this election means, not just to me or you, but to our country, and the many who still believe that we can be what we should be, regardless of candidate or party, and because in the end, because we are Americans.

        Be well.  Take very good care of you and yours.

        panicbean

        "The first casualty when war comes is the truth." --Sen. Hiram Johnson

        by panicbean on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:06:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  nicely said! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      panicbean

      "If you want to go quickly, go alone. If you want to go far, go together." We need to go far, quickly.

      by shpilk on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:11:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well, once again, except for a few (1+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    limpidglass
    Hidden by:
    IhateBush

    who truly try to further compassion and uniting us, I pretty well expected the reception you gave me.

    Let me tell you that I am not convinced of your sincerity to unite us.  If you were, you could understand our feelings.  But you neither can (that does not include all of you), nor do you show any kind of compassion towards the loss we feel.  I keep thinking that you would have those same feelings if your guy lost, and in order to get back together we would need to forgive, empathize, try to heal, and go forward from there.

    I just don't see it coming from most of you.  You seem to be determined to do whatever it takes to win.  Obama's message of change and unity is really a casualty here, amidst the behaviour of his supporters.

    It does not take many words to tell the truth. - Chief Joseph - Nez Perce

    by Gabriele Droz on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:49:18 PM PDT

    •  Hey, after all, we just support a candy bar... (9+ / 0-)

      ...so why did you expect anything?

      Obama is a secret ultra-Liberal Republican messianic Antichrist who will institute a socialist regime that will sell out all our resources to the corporations!

      by Addison on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:50:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It isn't OUR job to "unite" us... (12+ / 0-)

      it's your job as a voter to educate yourself (as I said below) and make a choice. Do you want 4 more years? Or do you want to vote for the Democratic nominee.

      I had little respect for how Hillary ran her campaign - you were more than aware of that fact - I would have voted for her in November if she had been the Democratic nominee. And when she said she put 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling I was proud - and a little bit sad that I couldn't have been one of those cracks...but she wasn't the candidate for me...that was that.

    •  Yes, exactly right. (0+ / 0-)

      You seem to be determined to do whatever it takes to win.

      Vote for BHO for a win.

      I would have voted for HRC for the win.

      The real contest is between the Dems and the Reps not between ourselves.

      "We should be able to deliver hot bottled water to dehydrated babies." John McCain

      by llamaRCA on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:55:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  oh please (9+ / 0-)

      you write a diary that deliberately insults the choice that the voters made.  You say that this was a really foolish choice for all of us to have made.

      And when people get a little annoyed, and point out that maybe there are some valid reasons to have chosen Barack Obama?  You don't want to hear that.

      It seems to me like you just really, really want some attention.  You seem to really enjoy provoking such exciting, negative comments!

      ugh.

      although it's getting late, you still have plenty of time

      by maracuja on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:55:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why this infernal need to be coddled? (12+ / 0-)

      Are you an adult?

      Grow up and get your head out of your ass. The country is breaking, and needs mending. NOW.

      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:55:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  look, can you please honestly say (4+ / 0-)

      whether the tone of your diary was productive to unity? In denigrating the appeal and the support we have for Obama?

      I understand that you're in pain, and that you're hurt over the loss of your candidate. I also know that you saw a lot of appeal and strong support in Hillary Clinton, which is why it bothers us when you don't try to see the same, or to understand our support for Obama.

      If you want to talk it through privately, you can e-mail me at pleasehelpfreebarneythedog at gmail dot com.

    •  Hey, I was an ardent Dean backer. (8+ / 0-)

      When he went down in flames, I was crushed. And, frankly, at that time I didn't much like Kerry.

      But over time, I grew to like and respect Kerry. And, like thousands of other ardent Dean supporters, I worked my ass off for Kerry in swing states. In fact, many Dean supporters became some of the hardest workers for Kerry.

      That being said, I don;t recall demanding that people "understand" me or kiss my ass or bend over backwards for me.

      I'm a grown-up. I am the only one who can control what I do, how I respond, what steps I take.

      You, on the other hand, seem to be demanding that everyone who supported someone besides Hillary heal your wounds.

      Only you can truly do that.

      And judging by your comments here, you're not ready.

    •  I feel sympathy (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bumblebums, Dave Brown, Elise, CandyKat

      for Clinton supporters. I feel bad for their loss. I encourage them to take all the time they feel they need to feel comfortable with Obama as a candidate.

      I remember your actions and words quite clearly, Droz. Until I see any sort of desire for unity coming FROM YOU, I could not care less about your feelings.

      Right now, you and some other Clinton supporters are demanding that OBAMA supporters bend over backwards to welcome you back into the fold.

      I say fuck that noise. Unity is a two-way street, and I see no desire for unity from you unless it involves everyone else caving in to you.

      "Someone wants a knife fight; someone I'm lookin' at." --Master Shake

      by TheBlaz on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:59:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  GD pulled this same stunt at mydd several times (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      churchylafemme, maracuja, Jyrinx, CandyKat

      ...after Hillary dropped out.  She'd throw out a bunch of insults at Obama, and then demand that people make her feel the unity by telling her why she should vote for Obama.  When people said positive things about Obama, she replied that you can't tell her what to think.  If they said anything negative about Clinton or inevitably got pissed off by her schtick, she'd reply that "obviously you don't really care about unity."  

    •  Please take the time (0+ / 0-)

      to consider the possibility that your caricature of Obama is not helping any more than the caricatures of Clinton posted here during the primaries helped anything. That, in fact, you not only expected the result you got, you actively engineered it.

      The difference between your diary and those diaries is that the primary is over now. Grieve, yes, but recognize that you are not expressing any passion, not affirming any virtue of your preferred candidate, not attempting to heal anything yourself—in fact, actively rubbing salt in everyone's wounds—by trashing the candidate who finally won.

      To adapt an old political phrase, don't bring a knife to an infirmary.

      No laws but Liberty. No king but Conscience.

      by oldjohnbrown on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 11:05:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Gabriele (0+ / 0-)

      You don't seem to have acknowledged the people who are bending over backwards to try to accommodate you and understand your feelings in this diary.

      Sure, there are some snarky comments here. Some people have snapped back at you, but you must've known you'd get some of that. It's almost like that's what you wanted. It seems like you're using the negative comments to re-inforce what you want to believe about Obama supporters and ignoring those who are trying to empathise.

      Try taking a break from blogging. Go talk to Max :-)

  •  Obama has many many accomplishments... (10+ / 0-)

    you know that because you've been told what they were before...multiple times...over and over and over again.

    Don't come here and pretend you have no fucking clue what Obama has said or done. You know. And if you really don't know - then the onus is on YOU to find it out for yourself - unless you want four more fucking years like the last 8.

    I'm not going to play nice with you, Gabriele. You don't deserve it - and frankly, you know you don't.

    Go read the document I've been telling you to read for the last 7 months: Blueprint for Change. Read about his policy ideas and his legislative accomplishments.

    And try actually watching some of Obama's speeches...just about every single one he's made for the last 2 months has multiple compliments towards Hillary and HER accomplishments and her strengths. He very clearly respects her.

    What change has he really brought us?

    You're not seriously asking that...

    Let's start with his help in making Illinois MORE blue...as well as several other Congressional candidates he's helped win elections - the fact that Alaska and Virginia and Colorado and North Carolina are now "swing states" - and Washington, Oregon, and Wisconsin are NOT.

    And that's without even mentioning a single bill he's passed...and there are many. Go read about them.

    That's your job as a voter - to educate yourself about the candidate.

    Let's face it - there isn't a SINGLE thing that I could say to you that would convince you.

    Go compare McCain and Obama - the choice is pretty crystal clear.

  •  You'll either vote for Obama or you won't. (11+ / 0-)

    It's that simple, isn't it?

    Now, you can claim that you need folks here or Obama or someone else to help you overcome your anger, but, in reality, that's up to you, isn't it?

    Good luck. Hope everything works out for you.

    So the strike's over?

  •  You don't need to get over anything. Really. (4+ / 0-)

    I understand how you're very upset. I remember how I felt with the Iowa students and the at-large caucuses.

    All I would ask is that you consider whether it's better to have a Democratic president (even one you're uncomfortable with) or a Republican president, and cast your vote accordingly.

  •  This is a mostly (0+ / 0-)

    well thought-out diary, considering the topic, and I commend you for it. But that video? Really, you could have done better. Yes, I watched it all the way through. That's some weak sauce. Seriously, if that's what made up your mind, you need to rethink.

    "Remember...remember...the 5th of November." John Lennon

    by MeMeMeMeMe on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:59:55 PM PDT

  •  And Gabrielle... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave Brown, Elise

    ...before you post about my horrible comments, please check out this diary that I wrote here, a month ago and weeks before Obama clinched the nomination.

    It's all about your tone. And your seeming motives. Come back when you aren't cultivating hatred to live off of.

    Obama is a secret ultra-Liberal Republican messianic Antichrist who will institute a socialist regime that will sell out all our resources to the corporations!

    by Addison on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:00:49 PM PDT

  •  Also, Gabriele, do you have any idea what's (9+ / 0-)

    wrong with Alegre?

    From tonight:

    Me?  Hubby, the kids and I live in a Maryland suburb of DC.  We love it here but hubby keeps saying that if another Republican gets in this year, we're moving back to his hometown in Ireland.  Ireland's great but I like it where we are now, so that might give you some insight as to why I'm busting my backside to make sure Hillary's our nominee for the fall general election.  There are so many reasons why we need to put a Democrat back in the White House, but for me a part of it is that I want to stay here in the States!

  •  Advice from a fellow Clinton supporter... (14+ / 0-)

    I understand your disappointment.  I share your disappointment.  

    However...

    Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee.  In January of next year, we will either inaugurate President Obama or President McCain.  If you can't feel enthusiastic about President Obama, think about President McCain, and your vote in November should be obvious.

    You don't have to love Obama.  Heck, you don't even have to like him.  You don't have to believe that all this "hope and change" talk will actually lead anywhere.

    But you do have to think about which candidate you'd rather see in the White House.  Or at least, which candidate you don't want to see in the White House.

    And that should be enough to earn your vote, if not your enthusiasm.

  •  You're wrong (4+ / 0-)

    On a number of levels.

    No-one likes to be told that their feelings and opinions don't matter anymore.

    Your candidate did not win the nomination.  This is not a negative reflection on your feelings and opinions.

    This it's why it's so hard for me to all of a sudden accept Obama.  He's done NOTHING to acknowledge the part Hillary and Bill played in raising up millions African Americans, Hispanics, Gays and Lesbians.  These were some of their legacies.

    First of all, please tell me the part that Bill and Hillary played in raising all these people up. Bill executed a mentally retarded African American man before he left Arkansas and signed "Don't Ask Don't Tell" into law. Hillary opposes gay marriage. And, since all these groups help put both Clintons into office, I think things are even.

    Secondly, Barack Obama spoke very highly and respectfully of Hillary Clinton throughout the campaign, and continues to do so.  I don't know what else you want.

    Our "preferred" candidate, Barack Obama,  gives us nothing to back up his speeches with actions so far.  He's anyone's "dream" only in terms that he has NO solid positions (video below).  He is the very creation of forces he "supposedly" wants to fight against.  I see no proof of him even achieving an inch of that so far.

    This is simply ridiculous. Go to his website. You can read his biography, and detailed descriptions of his policy positions. Look at the legislation he has helped create in his brief Senate tenure.

    Gary Hart, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, John Edwards, Carter, Al Gore, Dean, Nancy Pelosi (current congress, anyone?  People with  the spines to help bring about change?)

    Are they NOT the very old group of people he talks about replacing? While they are the very power players that brought him to where is his now?

    Penn, Ickes, Davis, Rendell, Rangel, Ferraro... Hillary's campaign wasn't exactly filled with fresh faced mavericks, either.  And some of Penn's stale ideas may very well have cost her the nomination.

    I'm 56. I've had decades of a life full of experiences, and my current opinions are based on all of those years and experiences.

    And your "decades of experiences" should tell you that there are times in life when you have to make a rational, objective decision. It's one thing to reject Obama because you don't like his policy decisions. But to do so out of what appears to be stubbornness and sheer spite makes no sense.

    Go ahead. Vote for McCain, Nader or Barr. Or stay home on Election Day. That'll show Obama and the rest of the silly hopemongers. That'll also do an awful lot toward continuing the advancements in civil rights and equality that you claim to care so much about.  

    "I run the kitchen, so I can stand the heat" - Nikki Giovanni

    by sistermoon on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:03:33 PM PDT

  •  As a low-level Democratic activist, I've lost far (4+ / 0-)

    more than I've won. But I've put in my time regardless.

    Except for John Kerry in 2004.

    After working my heart out for Wes Clark, I sat out politics for two years. I watched other Clarkies pick up and go on without me. In the 2006 campaign, I sat back and cried thinking of how bad I wanted Jim Webb to be elected, but I didn't do anything but argue on message boards for his candidacy. Basically, I did nothing but wring my hands while other Democratic activists went on without me and carried on the fight that I didn't have the heart to wage. And I still regret it.

    It's up to you whether or not you have the heart to carry on after Hillary's campaign. And I'm not going to judge you if you don't. But if you can't go on working for women's rights, a sensible foreign policy, an end to the war in Iraq, healthcare protections for seniors, children and those who are most vulnerable in our society, then I'm going to work extra hard to pick up the slack, just as other Democrats did for me. Because our cause is just too great to sit on the sidelines.

    I learned that lesson in 2006 and am humbled to fight along side of the Edwards Democrats and now the Clinton Democrats to take back our government in 2008. I hope you feel inspired, or at least less nauseaus in the future and join us in electing a Democratic president, even if it wasn't the Democratic president that you really wanted. If not, there's plenty of down-ticket candidates who desperately need help, and I'm sure they'd welcome your support.

    Either way, we'll be working on the same side of the same issues in 2009.

    "I will fight for my country, but I will not lie for her. " -- Zora Neale Hurston

    by blueintheface on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:05:16 PM PDT

  •  I would be more conciliatory (5+ / 0-)

    if someone from the Clinton camp helps me understand that she was NOT using race baiting techniques in her campaign, especially if the people she "raised up" (is that not condescending?) feel she stabbed them in the back. I would feel so much better about Hillary if I could overlook her capaign tactics. And I could, if I could believe I am wrong about them. YOU feel broken by her loss, I feel betrayed by her apparent deceitfulness toward the AA community.

    I absolutely would have supported her if she won.

    There have been countless unity diaries here. What more do you want?

    You speak about "us." But from what I've read, most Clinton supporters are now endorsing Obama. Perhaps asking them how they came to this decision would be helpful for you.

  •  It's not just about a President (4+ / 0-)

    It's about a Congress.

    Change is incremental, and anyone who has a memory here knows I posted my admonishment to those who think that one man can make change happen, they are bound to get really disappointed.

    It's the House of Representatives that really is the House of the People. This is where change really has to come from. Right now there's this tiny voice, with people like Dennis Kucinich, Robert Wexler, Barbara Lee, Jon Hall ..

    It's a list that has grown recently.

    Co-Chairs
    Hon. Lynn Woolsey (CA-6)
    Hon. Barbara Lee (CA-9)

    Vice Chairs
    Hon. Diane Watson (CA-33)
    Hon. Raul Grijalva (AZ-7)
    Hon. Emanuel Cleaver (MO-5)
    Hon. Hilda Solis (CA-32)
    Hon. Mazie Hirono (HI-2)
    Hon. Phil Hare (IL-17)

    Senate Members
    Hon. Bernie Sanders (VT)

    House Members
    Hon. Neil Abercrombie (HI-1)
    Hon. Tammy Baldwin (WI-2)
    Hon. Xavier Becerra (CA-31)
    Hon. Madeleine Bordallo (GU-AL)
    Hon. Robert Brady (PA-1)
    Hon. Corrine Brown (FL-3)
    Hon. Michael Capuano (MA-8)
    Hon. Donna Christensen (VI-AL)
    Hon. Yvette Clarke (NY-11)
    Hon. William "Lacy" Clay (MO-1)
    Hon. Steve Cohen (TN-9)
    Hon. John Conyers (MI-14)
    Hon. Elijah Cummings (MD-7)
    Hon. Danny Davis (IL-7)
    Hon. Peter DeFazio (OR-4)
    Hon. Rosa DeLauro (CT-3)
    Hon. Keith Ellison (MN-5)
    Hon. Sam Farr (CA-17)
    Hon. Chaka Fattah (PA-2)
    Hon. Bob Filner (CA-51)
    Hon. Barney Frank (MA-4)
    Hon. Luis Gutierrez (IL-4)
    Hon. John Hall (NY-19)
    Hon. Maurice Hinchey (NY-22)
    Hon. Michael Honda (CA-15)
    Hon. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-2)
    Hon. Sheila Jackson-Lee (TX-18)
    Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson (TX-30)
    Hon. Hank Johnson (GA-4)
    Hon. Stephanie Tubbs Jones (OH-11)
    Hon. Marcy Kaptur (OH-9)
    Hon. Carolyn Kilpatrick (MI-13)
    Hon. Dennis Kucinich (OH-10)
    Hon. John Lewis (GA-5)
    Hon. David Loebsack (IA-2)
    Hon. Carolyn Maloney (NY-14)
    Hon. Ed Markey (MA-7)
    Hon. Jim McDermott (WA-7)
    Hon. James McGovern (MA-3)
    Hon. George Miller (CA-7)
    Hon. Gwen Moore (WI-4)
    Hon. Jerrold Nadler (NY-8)
    Hon. Eleanor Holmes-Norton (DC-AL)
    Hon. John Olver (MA-1)
    Hon. Ed Pastor (AZ-4)
    Hon. Donald Payne (NJ-10)
    Hon. Charles Rangel (NY-15)
    Hon. Laura Richardson (CA-37)
    Hon. Bobby Rush (IL-1)
    Hon. Linda Sanchez (CA-47)
    Hon. Jan Schakowsky (IL-9)
    Hon. Jose Serrano (NY-16)
    Hon. Louise Slaughter (NY-28)
    Hon. Pete Stark (CA-13)
    Hon. Bennie Thompson (MS-2)
    Hon. John Tierney (MA-6)
    Hon. Tom Udall (NM-3)
    Hon. Nydia Velazquez (NY-12)
    Hon. Maxine Waters (CA-35)
    Hon. Mel Watt (NC-12)
    Hon. Henry Waxman (CA-30)
    Hon. Peter Welch (VT-AL)
    Hon. Robert Wexler (FL-19)

    I don't agree with every single with every single one of these Legislators, but this is the core of where I want to see our nation head towards.

    People with heart, and brains; who are not afraid to challenge the status quo.

    Who Barack Obama is, and where he is headed? I'm still not sure.

    But I'm willing to give him a chance: I want to see how closely he works with these people above. To me, that's important.

    "If you want to go quickly, go alone. If you want to go far, go together." We need to go far, quickly.

    by shpilk on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:08:24 PM PDT

  •  Once again, (4+ / 1-)

    I've wasted my time here.  I'm signing off, and thanks for all of your comments.  They tell me everything I need to know.

    Take care.

    It does not take many words to tell the truth. - Chief Joseph - Nez Perce

    by Gabriele Droz on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:12:44 PM PDT

  •  You said "Broken things don't heal overnight" (6+ / 0-)

    and I repost my sig line

    Nothing is ever broken that can't be fixed if enough people are committed ~ Bill Moyers

    I didn't participate in the primary wars, Gabriele, so I say this to you as someone who remembers you only as a Kossack, one who fixed broken wild birds if I remember correctly.

    Ignore the noise if possible and find the place inside that allows for forgiveness of whatever you believe caused the breaks. Then allow for the mending to take place. Together we can all make some great things happen, even on this ridiculous orange blog.

    It is my belief that having a President who is not a Republican is a huge step in the right direction. Having a President who encourages us to work together, to reclaim the duties AND rights of citizenship and humanity is even better. It will be ok. Be patient with us and with yourself.

    Nothing is ever broken that can't be fixed if enough people are committed ~ Bill Moyers

    by cosmic debris on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:15:33 PM PDT

  •  *Your own words* (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise, TheLoneliestMonk

    I love Obama as well...and will give him all my love and support to help him achieve the things we ALL want.

    so, you're saying one thing and not delivering, too?

    i'd wear my heart on my sleeve, but i've already got a chip on my shoulder.

    by bad bart on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:16:22 PM PDT

  •  this diary (8+ / 0-)

    as a diary, it's not very good.  Maybe I misunderstand Gabrielle, but I really don't feel like she wrote it in the spirit of genuinely looking for a reason to support Obama.  To me it seems like she's mad & hurt, so she posted something that would rile people up, and once she got enough irritated comments back at her, then she self-righteously stomped off.

    But what is genuinely important about this diary is that so many people wrote sincere comments and made sincere efforts to try to reach her.  It's really a nice thing to see.  There are a lot of good people in this place...

    although it's getting late, you still have plenty of time

    by maracuja on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:23:02 PM PDT

    •  I'm not nice tonight, not here, not about this (4+ / 0-)

      I won't be manipulated by a self indulgent whiny twit who refuses to look past her own emotions to what really matters. She posted this disingenuous diary with nothing in mind but to stir the pot and flounce off in a snit. Fuck that.

      Everyone here has had to suck it up at some point in their lives, when politics have dealt a blow. It's unseemly to demand backrubs and foot massages from us because Hillary lost the freaking primary.

      It's intolerable. There's work to do, GD. If you want to pitch in, great. Roll up your sleeves. If not, go elsewhere to moan and lick your wounds. We're not interested in peeling and feeding you grapes.

      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:43:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yeah well (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        churchylafemme, stlouis peacenik

        I understand that too.  The diary was definitely intended to get under people's skin, and my own comments weren't especially nice either.  I just thought it was impressive, that so many people were so nice, and really do keep trying so hard.  People are great, sometimes.

        although it's getting late, you still have plenty of time

        by maracuja on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:56:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Posting at Noquarter still? (11+ / 0-)

    Comment by Gabriele Droz | 2008-06-14 19:58:28

    A little off-topic, but here’s more proof of Obama’s total and complete arrogance:

    I mean really.  Why bother?

    Grandpa is mean and he smells funny.

    by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:36:48 PM PDT

  •  Obama isnt perfect, neither was Hillary. But (0+ / 0-)

    its about the issues, plain and simple. I felt your disappointment Gabriele, but I can't see McCains policies and judges be implemented, no way no how...

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