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More polling on the 'women's vote', previously documented to not be breaking vicePresident Palin's way. A new poll supports the idea you can like someone and not vote for them. Pre-speech, an EMILY's List poll:

Women voters remain unswayed by the Republican choice of anti-abortion, devout Christian Sarah Palin for vice president, according to a new poll released Wednesday.

White House hopeful John McCain electrified his party's conservative base by naming Palin, a 44-year-old mother of five and Alaska governor, as his running mate on Friday.

But 52 percent of voters polled in a survey for the women's activist group Emily's List said they would vote for the Democrat ticket of Barack Obama and his VP choice Joseph Biden, against 41 for the Republicans.

The gimmicky part of the pick seems clear:

The poll, carried out by random dialing of 800 women on Sunday and Monday, shows that 50 percent of women voters felt McCain picked Palin out of political expediency and not because he believes she has the experience to do the job.

Only 29 percent said he had picked her to run in the November 4 elections because he believed she was qualified to be vice president.

It's the reversal of the experience numbers that's startling:

And when asked which ticket had the most experience to run the country, 52 percent opted for the Democrats compared to 37 percent for the Republicans.

Obama, a young senator from Illinois, has been under fire for months from Republicans for his perceived lack of government experience compared to McCain, a Vietnam veteran who has worked in Congress for more than two decades.

In a similar poll conducted in August, McCain had a 35 point lead over Obama, said Geoff Garin, from pollsters Garin-Hart-Yang.

"To lose the experience argument is really devastating for the McCain campaign. Not just now but over the long haul in the next two months," Garin said.

Nothing in the red-meat-for-conservatives speech addressed that, but then again nothing in her resume does, either.

I can understand why Mike Murphy and Peggy Noonan thought this wasn't going to fly.

Other points of interest:

  • Some 45 percent of Clinton fans thought Palin was not very attractive as a candidate, and 55 percent said they would not be voting for McCain.
  • Only nine percent of Clinton supporters said they thought they would vote Republican because Palin was on the ticket.
  • sked which ticket understood better the issues and concerns which are important to women, 53 percent opted for the Obama-Biden ticket compared to 35 percent for McCain and Palin.

More here.

On behalf of EMILY's List, Garin-Hart-Yang Research Group conducted a national survey among 800 women voters to assess their reactions to and perceptions of Sarah Palin as John McCain's running mate. Interviewing was conducted on August 31 and September 1, 2008. The margin of error for the findings is +/- 3.5 percentage points.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:03 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I expect this to drop: (17+ / 0-)

    Only nine percent of Clinton supporters said they thought they would vote Republican because Palin was on the ticket.

    thats a pretty low number and i'd be interested to see what it is after last night's speech.  

  •  McCain bought his own hype about Obama. (12+ / 0-)

    He sees Obama winning, he's convinced himself that Obama's appeal is merely celebrity and novelty and that many people don't care about "experience".  So he balances his ticket along that perceived axis.

    But the fact is, that's NOT why Obama is winning, and basically McCain balance "wrong and old" with "wrong and young".

    RNC works to divide US again, this time, rural whites vs cities and blacks. They want a culture war for the next hundred years.

    by Inland on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:06:40 AM PDT

    •  Not only that (5+ / 0-)

      but McCain doesn't understand that the 'maverick' mccain is what people liked about him.  They say obama is too "liberal," but wasn't mccain (pre 2000) pretty "moderate" for a republican?

    •  McCain has learned that the art of (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Creosote, GN1927, Inland

      distraction and subversion gets him where he wants to be, eventually and temporarily.  What he likes is the process, the deception and misdirection.

      But, he can only get away with it as long as people give him the benefit of the doubt and think to themselves "oh, he can't be that bad."

      How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

      by hannah on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:44:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nailed it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      paintitblue

      The person who is being vastly underestimated right now is Barack Obama.  McCain clearly believes that Obama is zero save a guy with a speech.  And so he sought to replicate that by having his hack choice be the gal with the speech.

      They don't get it yet, but they will.

      Kudos to Obama for treating the Palins with respect, courtesy and decency.  Totally undeserved IMO, particularly as we saw last night Palin trying to burnish up her lack of bona fides and qualifications by denigrating someone vastly more intelligent, classier, more experienced, and much more patriotic than herself.  But kudos to Obama all the same.  

      Myself, I'm still pissed that some hypocritical hack, rather than merely introducing herself and making her case, refusing to recite that speech, instead chose to denigrate the very real accomplishments of someone leagues beyond her.  Very pissed.

      "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

      by GN1927 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 07:25:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I respectfully disagree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DemFromCT

      Why is it so difficult to believe that someone would view Senator Obama's appeal as either celebrity or novelty?  Is that much different that Palin's appeal, at least where novelty is concerned?  I've heard so many people say dumb things like, "I just want to be able to say one day that I was around when we elected the first African America/woman/whatever into office.  How pathetic.  But what is Barack Obama's experience in leading and managing?  As a candidate for the top job, it is absolutely a valid question and one that is deserving of an answer.  Take every Democratic President since we started electing them to office and compare resumes.  Can we honestly say that Barack Obama has equal qualifications?  Joe Biden is immensely more qualified to be president, as is just about every other candidate that ran for office this year.  So, what was the difference? It was his personal appeal at a more emotional level. He reached people and allowed them to believe in him and by extension in themselves and their country.  Tony Robbins does that on a weekly basis, but nobody has asked him to run for office.  The fact of the matter is that despite the selflessness of being a community organizer or even a legislator, that is not leading.  There is little if any accountability involved in being the champion of a losing cause or joining with others to support or vote down a particular bill.  Ethics Reform and Anti-Nuclear Proliferation are commonly highlighted as examples of his "leadership" and efforts to "reach across the aisle".  Can anyone name a politician that would honestly stand up and say that they weren't for ethics reform or wanted nuclear proliferation?  Hardly!    

      Sure, McCain is old, boring, stodgy, not particularly exciting and, until he became the presumptive nominee, about as centrist as a republican candidate has been in quite a number of years; so much so that the press really took to him in the early stages going all the way back to the Iowa Caucuses.  Now he's George Bush reincarnated?  I don't buy it.  He's not perfect.  Since Lincoln, few have been.  I have a hard time believing that he's in the presidential race out of some ego-driven mission to chalk it up on his personal to-do list before he dies.  I believe John McCain is a patriot and that he loves what this country stands for.  I also believe that if there was a viable third party that took some of the more agreeable parts of the Democratic and Republican Parties, he would likely be a member of it.  However as it stands, in order to reach the highest office in the land, one has to choose which, in his or her eyes, represents the lesser of two evils.  

      Democrats should absolutely take Governor Palin and the attention she has brought to the Republican ticket seriously.  If history has taught us anything, its that the American public are a fickle bunch, always looking for the next bandwagon to jump on.  And if there was ever a bandwagon-jumping bunch to be careful of, its the undecided voters that will ultimately decide this election.  

      And why chide McCain for balancing his ticket when Barack Obama did the exact same thing?  My only shock was that he didn't choose HRC for the sure win or New Mexico Governor for the Latino vote and executive gravitas.  The fact of the matter is that each side has obvious weaknesses, and if you cannot admit that your candidate has weaknesses, regardless of which candidate that might be, then hubris will be your downfall.  

      •  mostly agree (0+ / 0-)

        except what McCain has sold his soul for is far, far more malicious than you lay out.

        The 2000 McCain understood that when he took on Falwell and Robertson. He's now running as the titular head of the party of Dobson.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 03:11:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Both sides pander to the extreme members of their (0+ / 0-)

          party. If they didn't, they would have no chance of getting elected.  Once in office, there is nothing that absolutely binds them to following up on those promises.  Comparing this election to the election of 2000 isn't apples to apples.  The far Right had significantly less influence on national elections than it does today (as does the far Left), so now it behooves both candidates to give the more extreme yet powerful party groups the attention and at least appearance of respect they believe they deserve.  

          Personally, I don't think there's too many members of Dobson's group that would stay out of the election out of fear that doing so en mass would be tantamount to casting a vote for the other party.  Not acquiescing to Dobson was a bluff that John McCain couldn't afford to make publicly because if Dobson was publicly forced to acknowledge being rebuffed by McCain, it would be McCain who would end up being the scapegoat and provide the "out" that those then wishing to stay out of the election would need to be able to sleep at night.  

          My concern is that we really don't know what Barack Obama's true feelings are. As a young member of the party, he's almost forced to vote in lock-step, as he has, if he ever wants to raise through the ranks.  So, his voting record may be less an indication of his true feelings and more an indication of how well he plays the political game.  One thing is for sure...he doesn't appear to have ever been able to tell a fellow Democrat "no, I won't vote yes on your bill".  Ok, that may be a tad inacurate.  His record cites 97% in alignment with the Democratic party. I don't know what the items that made up the 3% are off hand, but you can agree with my point.  

          Counter that with McCain's 90% voting record.  Well, the devil is in the details.  Take a look at the items that make up that 10% and you can begin to see whether the picture that is being painted of McCain as Bush III is truly accurate.  

          •  sorry (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            paintitblue

            the Republicans own the mess we are in. That's what voters get.and if you want to know the rest, see where Dobson and Land and Buchanan and other cultural warriors land.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:40:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  It was like a snotty freshman, standing up... (15+ / 0-)

    in the lecture hall and giving a sniviling diatribe to the tenured professor.

  •  Hillary could/should handle some of this. (10+ / 0-)

    Hillary's name is being mentioned numerous times daily by reporters and the McCain campaign.

    It's about time, especially after the hit and run last night, that Hillary addresses the issues.

    She could say many things that will bring the focus back to Obama and take it away from Palin for at least a newscycle or so.  The media seems to want to talk about Hillary, so she should give them something to talk about.

    She should do it first thing Friday morning, too.

    First a cowboy. Now a maverick? Yeah, that's exactly who you want to handle complex problems.

    by gooderservice on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:07:32 AM PDT

  •  We'll need a few days to access Palin (8+ / 0-)

    They rolled her out, unvetted, and that will most likely sink her and McCain. But I expect her poll numbers to increase after last night.

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:07:42 AM PDT

  •  i just don't think people are going to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mango, MAORCA

    think of this question when they step in the voting booths.

    it's asking a lot of people, to remember things they have said in the past and abide by them in their daily actions. it's asking a lot of anybody, not to mention your so-called "low information" voters.

    how many of those people who think mccain made solely a political popularity decision are going to vote against him because of it? that's the question i want to know.

    obama and biden need to bring on their wit and charm. they need to play at this game. stop being theoretical and wonkish and thoughtful. they are both guys with abundant personality -- especially biden. they need to charm americans into the voting booths and give them something substantive to vote for, which will be the distinction between them and this republican ticket.

    i think they're attacking me cause i'm awesome. how's that??

    by missreporter on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:07:42 AM PDT

    •  polls are snapshots and not predictions (6+ / 0-)

      but the experience 50 point swing is significant.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:11:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In other words McBush has destroyed his (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Creosote, GN1927, paintitblue, MariaWr

        biggest strength.

        The key lesson is: TALK ABOUT THE TICKET.

        DO NOT get sucked into pissing contests about individual experience.

        McCain - Worse than Bush

        by MAORCA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:30:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yup (0+ / 0-)

          To me, experience isn't the important thing anyway. Cheney and Rumsfeld have resumes ten feet long, and look at them.

          I want someone with a cool head in a crisis. I want someone with ideas, not just insults. I want someone who can think critically. I want someone who realizes that there's more to foreign policy than blowing shit up. I want someone who cares about what ordinary people are going through, not someone who labels them as whiners. Experience is useless if you don't learn anything from it, which McCain clearly has not.

  •  None of us should underestimate Palin. I think we (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shocko from Seattle, 80amabo

    do so at our own peril. I can't believe the rave reviews she is getting from every corner today - even from snarky Alessandra Stanley from the NY Times.

    I don't think we've found the right attack route here against Palin. We've thrown everything and the kitchen sink at her and she seems unbowed and uncowed.

    Maybe it's time to recalibrate and  focus on McCain's deficiencies ?

    •  She's only been known for five minutes (8+ / 0-)

      it takes time for all this stuff to sink in. She's not getting rave reviews all around - on CNN there's a headline about her being "snarky and shrill".

      And if they keep hiding her, that'll annoy the press quite a bit too. She hasn't taken much in the way of live questions.

      •  true, I have read a lot of mediocre reviews (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        paintitblue

        and some quite critical and not just from liberal writers.

        http://keystoneliberals.proboards102.com Keeping PA Blue ! Stop By and Say Hi

        by wishingwell on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:30:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  but it's the liberal media (0+ / 0-)

          and she doesn't care about them, she's for the people!

          ahem

          never mind that most of the media is owned by very rich Republican and/or conservative folk

          we need to explain to the American people that it's a little hard for Republicans to run AGAINST Washington when they've had the White House for 20 of the last 28 years, etc., etc., etc.

          how do the Republicans win with a ticket that has limited business experience, almost no agricultural background, and whose platform seems to be (1) more of the same and (2) he has character because he was a POW?

          lots of people were POWs, unfortunately

          and lots of people have been mayors of small towns and governors of small (population) states

          none of which qualifies them...

          sigh

          Beware all ventures which require new clothes, and not a new wearer of clothes. -- Henry David Thoreau

          by Shocko from Seattle on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 06:30:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  She is not running for President though (7+ / 0-)

      and I have talked to a number of people who like her but they won't vote McCain..they  know McCain is McBush.

      I was talking to someone who loved her speech but said...

      It does not matter. I am voting for Obama. McCain is Bush.

      http://keystoneliberals.proboards102.com Keeping PA Blue ! Stop By and Say Hi

      by wishingwell on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:29:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hold on just a few minutes (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      paintitblue

      because she still won't talk to the media, no interviews, no scheduled campaign events, nothing.  And she offers little to nothing on her ideas on the national economy and foreign affairs.  Oh, she is smart, she is a good talker (don't they knock Obama for that?), but the media is just about ready to fry her.

      And, now that she gave this great speech, well, expectations are very high for her, no one is now saying that she can't handle herself, but her lies are also being called out by the media, especially the bridge to no where.  

      She set herself up for what is not going to be a nice time.

      AfterHoursStamper.blogspot.com

      by SanJoseLady on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 06:56:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But this meme (0+ / 0-)

        taken from the above quotes describing her as

        devout Christian Sarah Palin

        has got to be called out.  She is not a "Devout Christian".  She is a Radical Religious Extremist.

        She needs to be described by someone as being the Christian equivalent of radical islamists.

        Barack Obama is a devout Christian, and there is no comparison between what those two practice.

        The Oval Office, January 20, 2009: The Obamaden

        by pvlb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 08:56:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Why the silence on her extremist abortion views? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GN1927, mjd in florida, kevinspa, beltane

    She wants to ban abortion for victims of rape and/or incest. I haven't heard a whisper about it. I s it some sort of impolitic thing to point out?

  •  What I learned watching the RNC last night (15+ / 0-)

    and I watched very little.  

    1-Delaware is a small insignificant state.
    2-Alaska is, like, really big.
    3-Community organizers and community service is a joke to the Republicans.  I guess is you don't make big money and take corporate jobs you're a fool.
    4-Rudy Guiliani is one of the most despicable people on earth.
    5-If you turn the sound off and watch Guiliani, he looks like Mussolini giving a speech.  I expected him to take off a shoe and pound it on the podium. (I know, that was Kruschev.)
    6-Watching that RNC crowd guffaw and chuckle made me want to puke.
    7-Sarah Palin is more qualified to be President than John McCain.

    Grandpa Simpson is a cartoon character...John McCain is an actual person...
    McCain/Whatshername '08

    by wry twinger on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:08:59 AM PDT

  •  "only" 9% of Clinton Supporters? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, paintitblue

    If valid, that would be enough to flip the popular vote.  My guess is that the number is not valid.  Anybody can say to a pollster, "I was a Clinton supporter, but I am voting McCain" and I think a lot of people did that who were die-hard Republicans and just wanted to stir up the opposition.

    •  it certainly could be valid (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mcfly, paintitblue

      But 52 percent of voters polled in a survey for the women's activist group Emily's List said they would vote for the Democrat ticket of Barack Obama and his VP choice Joseph Biden, against 41 for the Republicans.

      It was taken a a time where that was the overall response. But typically a candidate gets 85-90% of their party and loses the rest.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:13:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wonder if those so called Clinton supporters (6+ / 0-)

        like the buttons worn at the Republican Convention

        Hottest Governor from the Coldest State

        And Bill Press just mentioned a few others like

        Hot Chick for VP

        And GOP wants to cry Sexism..give me a break.

        I think many so called Hillary supporters for McCain voted for her  in a primary but are Republicans but probably tell pollsters they voted Hillary in the primaries.

        http://keystoneliberals.proboards102.com Keeping PA Blue ! Stop By and Say Hi

        by wishingwell on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:38:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Apparently not, given Obama's lead in polls. (0+ / 0-)

      The current national polls already have defectors accounted for.  

      RNC works to divide US again, this time, rural whites vs cities and blacks. They want a culture war for the next hundred years.

      by Inland on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:14:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I have strong feelings most of that 9pct are (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pvlb, paintitblue

      Republicans who never intended to vote for a Democrat in the General anyway...even if it was Hillary. The problem with some of these polls are they probably ask

      Who did you vote for in the primary"

      There are a lot of open primaries where Republicans can vote a Democratic ballot. So these results I do not completely trust.

      http://keystoneliberals.proboards102.com Keeping PA Blue ! Stop By and Say Hi

      by wishingwell on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:33:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Question about Murphy and Noonan's Hot Mike (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    Do you think this will get played over and over again as with Jesse Jackson's comments about Obama?

    My point is I'll bet Peggy will continue to crank out praise pieces for the Murdock Street Journal.

  •  As always, TV access is going to be THE factor (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Creosote, vacuumslayer

    that determines what MOST americans think.

    If it's on the TV it's real, it's true, it's good. Gospel.

    Not on YV - unreal, doesn't exist, must be fake.

    Sarah's on TV. The GOP has more influence over the TV than the Dems do, for some reason.

    They also have ALL of talk radio, which is clearly coordinated with GOP talking points.

    Dems have the internet which requires literacy, a serious shortfall in connecting with those who just listen to radio.

    Lets see what Obama can do to McCain at The Loofah Palace tonight.

  •  What if McCain backs her agenda? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    Why should we assume that McCain picked her only to get votes now but to stay a "moderate" in office?  

    It seems more fair to assume that McCain knows what he's doing and he wants to put her in "Fourth Branch" Cheney's office so that she can carry out the unaccountable agenda she's likely to carry out.

  •  And Egan has a nice piece in the Times (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, GN1927, mango

    here that suggests that the Ms "Macho" Palin Show isn't really going to play well in Peoria.

    I think he's on to something.

    Je suis inondé de déesses

    by Marc in KS on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:12:16 AM PDT

    •  thoughtful comment on Egan column (15+ / 0-)

      Ms. Palin represents everything about America that has, over the last eight years, made us the laughingstock of the rest of the world: She is provincial and proud of it, poorly educated, and small minded. She is arrogant, petty, and vindictive. She is intolerant of differences and filled with excessive pride in her insignificant achievements.

      None of these are characteristics that I ascribe to Alaskans. They are pure Palin.

      I am one of those registered independent women who considered voting for McCain after Clinton conceded the nomination. But now just the sight of Palin’s smug visage turns my stomach. I’ll hold my nose and vote for Obama before I vote for any ticket that carries Palin’s name.

      (posted by  a "Ms. Virago.")  The Repubs are fighting the last war, hoping for some of that 2000=04 magic, but Americans have moved on.  Big miscalculation.

  •  I'm so glad this is playing out how we thought (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, paintitblue

    McCain just drove another stake into his party.

    McCain/Palin: The Old Man and The She

    by MingPicket on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:12:26 AM PDT

  •  McCain thought she was inexperienced (3+ / 0-)

    From the Florida Fox GOP debate in October 2007:

    "I wasn't a mayor for a short period of time. I wasn't a governor for a short period of time. ... I didn't manage for profit. I led for patriotism."

    Of course he was talking about Giuliani and Romney at the time. There's video on the tubes to back it up...

  •  It couldn't have gone better for the Dems.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, Marc in KS

    McCain and his right-wing bosses did the Dems a huge favor last night. Read more. http://www.tagg-lines.com/...

  •  Really Scary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GirlZero, MariaWr

    If women are willing to hand over our daughters future to a women more than willing to forcefully and blindly toss out bumper sticker soundbites specifically designed for 30 second sound clips on TV.

    The good news - McCain has to speak tonight and will hopefully throw a wet blanket over the whole convention.

    I'm proud of Americans today!

    by Stop Pandering on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:13:32 AM PDT

  •  American public smarter than they thought. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LynneK, GirlZero
  •  If Ahmadinejad, Putin (or previously Hussein) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LynneK

    could be beaten by insults, lies, condescension, then Palin's our guy.

    First a cowboy. Now a maverick? Yeah, that's exactly who you want to handle complex problems.

    by gooderservice on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:13:56 AM PDT

  •  If only the Republicans would drop McCain... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bigjacbigjacbigjac, GirlZero

    ...and make their ticket Sarah Palin and Katherine Harris.  Plain White Vanilla and Pink Sugar '08!

  •  donated 100.00 this morning (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wry twinger, mjd in florida, GirlZero

    they've got me so pissed.

    CRUSH HER, JOE

  •  "NOW WE HAVE OUR ROCKSTAR TOO" (5+ / 0-)

    forget who said it, it was some gop spinmeister.....  

    'NOW WE HAVE OUR ROCKSTAR TOO'

    he was referring to McCains VP PICK

    and she may well be the gop rockstar BUT in her speech last night Sarah Palin served up red meat for red america when what the voters wanted to hear from her was meat and potatoes answers to the major problems facing  the UNITED STATES of America"

    McCain sealed the deal last night,  he is now officially running to be president of SOME OF THE PEOPLE....  

    Obama, on the other hand, is running to be the president of ALL of the people.  and that is the real difference in this election.

    DIVISIVE HATESPEECH like PALIN delivered is sooooo yesterdays politics....  the gop still doesnt get it.

    McCain/Palin = TWO SIDEKICKS, no Leader!

    by KnotIookin on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:14:12 AM PDT

  •  Can't abide the term "Devout Christian". (11+ / 0-)

    My parents:  Devout Christians.

    Raised me to be a Devout Christian (I could do better, and definitely see the sense in some other faiths, and agnosticism).

    I was never, ever, ever taught that Devout Christians embrace such hateful, narrow-minded, mean-spirited, base, petty, greedy attitudes or outlooks.

    I wish that people who put our press releases, write articles or blather on some pundit show, would stop referring to persons like Palin as "Devoutly Christian", or their sects as "Christian".  

    Sure, they consider themselves to be "Devout Christians", but there's is a very particular and peculiar (and, in my view, perverse and blasphemous) sect of Christianity that over and over again makes a mockery of what Jesus taught and how He admonished us to behave.

    bg
    _____

    "We in the gloam, old buddy," he said, "We definitely right in the middle of it." -Larry Brown

    by BenGoshi on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:14:20 AM PDT

  •  Stats and Barry Bonds. (0+ / 0-)

    Barry Bonds is a ball player. He is known for hitting a ball. His average ability to hit a ball is much better than a lot f people. His batting average is very good.

    Will he hit the next ball thrown to him?

    Who knows?

    Stats tell us about rends and potentials. They don't predict the immediate future.

  •  For those of us who don't know (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GirlZero

    how to characterize this information...roughly what are the demographics of "Emily's List"? Might be good to include a summary or introduction in the diary.

    •  Emily's List gets Choice candidates elected (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LynneK, Deoliver47, paintitblue

      to Congress, local state legislatures, and hopefully, the presidency.

      "It's hard for citizens to pull up sticks." - George Bush, September 1, 2008
      "Ggleegog Bless America!" - Fred Thompson, September 2, 2008

      by GirlZero on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:18:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Or people could click on the link n/t (0+ / 0-)
      •  I think bio blurbs are helpful to those (0+ / 0-)

        trying to read between work and with dial-up and slow uploads.

        ~father...Father, the sleeper has awakened! ~Dune

        by CWalter on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:57:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I added the box at the bottom (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CWalter

          On behalf of EMILY's List, Garin-Hart-Yang Research Group conducted a national survey among 800 women voters to assess their reactions to and perceptions of Sarah Palin as John McCain's running mate. Interviewing was conducted on August 31 and September 1, 2008. The margin of error for the findings is +/- 3.5 percentage points.

          good point!

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 06:11:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  who commissions a poll is irrelevant (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LynneK

      On behalf of EMILY's List, Garin-Hart-Yang Research Group conducted a national survey among 800 women voters to assess their reactions to and perceptions of Sarah Palin as John McCain's running mate. Interviewing was conducted on August 31 and September 1, 2008. The margin of error for the findings is +/- 3.5 percentage points.

      When Daily Kos commissions R2000, that doesn't change poll results.

      I will add the boxed data.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:20:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  That 20% who thinks Palin was an experience pick (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, CWalter, tosan1212, GirlZero

    That's the same 20 that still thinks Bush is doing a heck of a job. They walk among us folks. To paraphrase Tyler Durden: They cook your meals, they connect your calls, they guard you while you sleep. Do NOT fuck with them.

  •  "random dialing" (0+ / 0-)

    As much as I would love for this to be true, I am wondering about the validity of the poll.

    Once in awhile you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

    by Glic on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:19:18 AM PDT

  •  Love the bar graph. (0+ / 0-)

    I like red and yellow together.

  •  Her sarcasm was juvenile. Probably sounded (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JackAshe, vacuumslayer

    great to the population whose votes the Republicans are looking to count on. Those small, small towns that dominate our country.

    Us city mice better just go back to our quiet, unimportant lives.

    "It's hard for citizens to pull up sticks." - George Bush, September 1, 2008
    "Ggleegog Bless America!" - Fred Thompson, September 2, 2008

    by GirlZero on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:20:39 AM PDT

    •  I live in a small town (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marrael, paintitblue

      which is pretty much a Republican bastion, but, if what I hear at the local diner, grocery store and convenience stor is any indication, Sarah Palin has not made a good impression. The people of Odenville, Alabama, don't think very highly of a mayor who comes into office with a budget surplus and leaves office with a $20K budget deficit. (Honestly, that's all I've been hearing about...the fact that she left Wasilla $20K in debt.)

      "Truth never damages a cause that is just."~~~Mohandas K. Gandhi -9.38/-6.26

      by LynneK on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 06:52:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  HELP! (4+ / 0-)

    I don't think I can take another 8 more years of

    GOP based change!

    Please HELP!

    Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing. ~Arundhati Roy

    by LaFeminista on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:21:24 AM PDT

  •  The Gop will not get support from (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GirlZero

    any minorities so they must go after women.

    "For the love of god learn to think on your own" Me

    by givemhellHarryR on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:21:30 AM PDT

  •  WOW@Poblano's comments on Palin's speech. (9+ / 0-)

    He articulated exactly what I was feeling but unable to put to words:

    Virtually all of the conservative commentariat, and a greater-than-would-care-to-admit-it share of the liberal commentariat think that Sarah Palin hit a home run tonight. I guess I'm just going to have to stick my neck out (along with Josh Marshall) and disagree.

    You can tar-and-feather me with this later if I'm wrong. I will make this disclaimer: I'm not necessarily offering a prediction about how the polls are going to move over the next several days. Almost all conventions produce bounces, and this one probably will too (though whether it comes from Palin's speech rather than McCain's, or Fred Thompson's or Rudy Giuliani's, we probably won't be able to tell). But I don't think the speech will be effective beyond the very near term (the next 3-7 days) at moving votes in McCain's direction, if it moves them at all. And here's why:

    I think some of you are underestimating the percentage of voters for whom Sarah Palin lacks the standing to make this critique of Barack Obama. To many voters, she is either entirely unknown, or is known as an US Weekly caricature of a woman who eats mooseburgers and has a pregnant daughter. To change someone's opinion, you have to do one of two things. Either, you have to be a trusted voice of authority, or you have to persuade them. Palin is not a trusted voice of authority -- she's much too new. But neither was this a persuasive speech. It was staccato, insistent, a little corny. It preached to the proverbial choir. It was also, as one of my commentors astutely noted, a speech written by a man and for a man, but delivered by a woman, which produces a certain amount of cognitive dissonance.

    In exceedingly plain English, I think there's a pretty big who the fuck does she think she is? factor. And not just among us Daily Kos reading, merlot-drinking liberals. I think Palin's speech will be instinctively unappealing to other whole demographics of voters, including particuarly working-class men (among whom there may be a misogyny factor) and professional post-menopausal women. As another of my commentors put it:

       Not only does Palin's inexperience trump Obama's... her "otherness" also trumps his. Where she comes from, the way she talks, her bio, lifestyle, and all the moose and caribou stuff... it makes her seem more exotic than Obama, who after all lives in the middle of America and has a life that people can readily understand.

       Palin may be just as American as anybody, but she still seems to come from Somewhere Else.

       This would be fine... even interesting and appealing... if she weren't attacking. But we have a deep, instinctive aversion to people who are part of us (even if we don't really like them much) being attacked by people we perceive as outsiders. Our instinct is to stiffen up, to protect.

    This point may be a little bit overstated, but the fact remains that Barack Obama is extremely well known and Palin is largely unknown, and when that is the case, your perception of the known commodity is more likely to influence your perception of the unknown commodity than the other way around. If there's a certain Italian restaurant that you've been going to for years, and some stranger stops you on the street and tells you that they don't know how to cook their pasta, you're going to think that the stranger is a kook -- not that the restaurant is poor.

    And not only is Barack Obama exceptionally well known, but perceptions of him are exceptionally well entrenched. In today's Rasmussen numbers, 63 percent of voters had either a very favorable or a very unfavorable perception of Obama. This is an extremely high figure. I looked up the Rasmussen numbers for other prominent politicians, and this number was the highest I could find ... actually tied with Bill Clinton for the highest:

    Percentage viewing as Very Favorable
    OR Very Unfavorable

    Obama         63
    B. Clinton    63
    Gore          61
    H. Clinton    60
    Bush          60
    Cheney        59
    Pelosi        51
    T. Kennedy    48
    Palin         45
    Kerry         45
    McCain        43
    Romney        38
    Biden         33

    This is why folks like Barack Obama and Bill Clinton (and Hillary Clinton, for that matter) are Teflon politicians. It's not that they have some magical quality that keeps them out of trouble ... it's just that a very high percentage of voters have already made up their minds one way or the other about them, and can't possibly be persuaded otherwise. With John Kerry, the swiftboating worked because voters didn't have particuarly strong feelings about him. With Obama, the Republicans spent tens of millions of dollars in an effort to brand him negatively, and moved his favorables by ... a point or two at the margins.

    Ultimately, it's not that I don't think there aren't people who will find Palin's performance effective -- I just don't think there's much overlap between those people and the universe of persuadable voters.

    And his buddy Sean from 538.com nailed it with this:

    A Great Speech, For Both Bases

    St. Paul delegates are giddy with Sarah Palin’s speech. The mood is buoyant, enlivened, energized. It’s a party. There are revelers. The faces shine with joy and pleasure at a convention finally fully underway. Their VP nominee did it – she hit it out of the park. There is joy in Mudville, here on the ground.

    And it worked wonders – for the Dems.

    In the past several hours, Dems I’ve spoken with and who’ve flooded my inbox are energized. A woman friend and Democrat who had not worked for Obama’s campaign: "I am volunteering tomorrow." An Obama organizer who was operating on fumes five months ago: "They are not getting away with this. 10 hours of call time tomorrow." A shorter read of the mood: "Let’s get it on."

    The mockery went too far. They played the "Obama doesn’t love America, just himself" card, over and over and over. For people already inclined to believe that (i.e., the hardcore Republican base), the speech was a smashing success. Maybe they will work a little harder, volunteer a few more hours, dig a little deeper into their pockets. But so will partisan Dems, who are far more plugged into watching the election coverage.

    So my reaction: St. Paul loved this speech... and so did Chicago. Palin swung for the fences, mocking the very notion of community organizing. So did Giuliani. This was the day after "Service" was the theme, and Republicans fell all over themselves praising their party’s commitment to give back to the community. Jarring.

    Fire up both bases equally, it’s not even close. Obama wins going away. In 2008, there are so many more Democrats, numerically.

    So, everyone on both partisan sides has reason to celebrate tonight. Republicans can celebrate a true champion in the VP role. Dems can celebrate because the numbers don’t lie, and no energy occurs in a vacuum. Republicans can’t tie this year.

    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty ::Thomas Jefferson::

    by Jeremy10036 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:22:30 AM PDT

  •  Ok, so the strategy was to take every (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bigjacbigjacbigjac, LynneK

    issue off the table and leave us with "personality" to talk about.

    McCain and that Palin Person = Mr. and Mrs. congeniality

    Can we say "hogging the airwaves by being really awful"?

    How low can they go?  So low that even trailer trash will seem superior.

    But, you say, trailer trash doesn't vote?  That's why the machines will have to be fixed.  The only question is where?  What kind of voting system do they use in Pennsylvania?  Louisiana?  Missouri?  Texas?

    Ohio would seem to be out this time.

    How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

    by hannah on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:22:31 AM PDT

  •  Two words: Social Security. (4+ / 0-)

    Make it the defining issue of this election. It's the only issue all voters agree they have a stake in.

  •  LOOK I THINK PALIN IS (8+ / 0-)

    A catastrpophe for this nation.

    but i just got a call from my sister in Boston, who called to wish me happy birthday, but added, "hey, what an exciting speech by Sarah Palin" "Isnt she great"

    I was taken aback!
    I said what are you talking about???

    She goes:
    "She's for special needs children. She has one."

    I then explained to her how palin was an extremist reactionary with no insight into global affairs the ecoonomy. and how she's for less government, not more.
    how, obama is likely to help your child then Palin ever would.

    "But she understands the issue becuase she has one"

    Well, I think i will win her over.
    But if this is an indication of something, we have to be vigilant about Palin.
    Very vigilant.

  •  thinkin' strategy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LynneK

    So here is the rethugs plan; the way I figure... their only hope is to mobilize small town America to come out big for one of their own (Palin) on election day. This is how they won in 2004, by mobilizing small town evangelicals (especially in Ohio), 5 million more than came out in 2000, and they’re poised to try it again. And at the same time they keep up the dirty trick, voter suppression activities in the urban areas; which they have perfected at this point.  They think that this is their only hope to squeak out a victory...

    The other reason, I think, behind the pick is to have the press over-extend themselves with critiques on Palin to the n’th degree--which is what has been happening for the last five days; and what frankly should be happening because she is totally unqualified. But, here is the catch--this has given them free reign to push back and push back hard, not only toward the press, but also toward the Obama/Biden campaign--basically playing the victim (and, now sexism) card. This, at the same time, gives them an excuse to go negative to the extreme back at Obama--as though it were justified (Palin started this phase of the campaign last by delivering the "red meat"--the Moose meat as it were). So this is what we have to look forward for the next two months--extreme mudslinging (the lying about Obama and their own records, cheating, intimidating and threatening the press and individual journalists, etc.) and severe voter suppression in the urban areas.

    I campaigned in Columbus, Ohio back in 2004--there is nothing I would put past these people; there is nothing they won’t do to win an election. I estimate that Obama will need to win by at least 4-5% points nationally to simply break even; and to be able to win states like Ohio, Colorado, and Virginia. How about some discussion on strategy? First, I think this scenario can be pre-figured and counteracted--any ideas? 1) Highlighting the differences in experience--instead of just trashing Palin. 2) Asking probing questions that highlight the differences without being glib or too direct 3) This is a hard one--but don’t be extremely negative back--have pointed, yet undeniably "truthy" comebacks, which are not all John Kerry-y. 4) Have a kick-ass ground game that leaves no voters behind--focus on the urban areas; don’t allow the suppression, esp. at the local level. Keep going...

  •  By Palin and Romney's definition of experience (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gooderservice, LynneK

    Steve Jobs or Bill Gates should be running this country, and I'd be a lot more comfortable with Gates-Jobs than McLame-Stalin.

    "It's hard for citizens to pull up sticks." - George Bush, September 1, 2008
    "Ggleegog Bless America!" - Fred Thompson, September 2, 2008

    by GirlZero on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:25:53 AM PDT

  •  Low information voter story (11+ / 0-)

    Spoke to a low information voter.  She said she was quite upset when Hillary lost, because she was looking forward to voting for a woman for President.  So when she heard that Palin had been picked, she was excited.  Then she started hearing all this crap about Palin over the weekend (although almost none of the crappiest crap).  So of course I felt the need to let her know about more:  the real story behind trooper-gate, etc.  At the end of the conversation, she said, and I quote:  I felt like I'd been handed a rose when Palin was announced, and now I see I just have a dead weed.

    Non-winger low-information voters are not buying this one.

    •  Thats exactly the reaction we need that is why we (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marrael, vacantlook, mjd in florida

      have to expose everything, the more is out there about her shenanigans the better for us

      McCain/(Hagee+Parsley) '08 "We Hunt Jews and Muslims So You Dont Have To. Straight Talk"

      by DFutureIsNow on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:29:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  just saw snippets of the speech (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ekthesy, mjd in florida, CWalter, tcdup, pvmuse

      Why are they celebrating this woman? She is so trailer trashy good I guess.

      That lipstick comment - a vice president? a joke like that? Gimme a frikkin break. People liked that? It was awful.

      And seriously, I know family's are off limits, but that little girl licking her brother's hair down? that wasn't cute at all. Sorry - that was a little girl having to act like a mommy because mommy's busy on stage. If mothers are responding to the kids doing the mothering, then well, they've got some funny mothering ideas.

      Sarah Palin is a pig. And, her voice is as annoying as they get.

      Alaska State Representative Mike Doogan (D): "Either Sarah Palin has talents and skills we were not aware of", or "John McCain fell down and hit his head".

      by michele2 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:34:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  In hiding. (0+ / 0-)

    How can the whole of the GOP

    Hope to hide behind one woman?

    Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing. ~Arundhati Roy

    by LaFeminista on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:28:16 AM PDT

  •  Only 45% of Hillary Clinton fans thought (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DFutureIsNow

    Palin was not very attractive as a candidate, and 55 percent said they would not be voting for McCain."

    If that's true, what the &&^*&^ is wrong with 40% or so of Hillary voters?

    I hope that really over-estimated Palin's support in that group. Why would any Hillary voter go for this extremist reactionary pro-war nut?

  •  Rudy, Palin: "Only Mayors can be President." (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LynneK, LaFeminista

    Give me a break. She talks about Obama's delusions of grandeur. Mayor Daley doesn't f*ck Chicago over and then leave it behind for greener pastures. A good mayor gets re-elected, Rudy, how about that?

    "It's hard for citizens to pull up sticks." - George Bush, September 1, 2008
    "Ggleegog Bless America!" - Fred Thompson, September 2, 2008

    by GirlZero on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:30:46 AM PDT

  •  "Experience" is getting so old. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LynneK, paintitblue

    Obama had a good line for a while:  Judgment, not experience is what counts, and that line about Bush Cheney having experience and see where that got us.

    Experience needs to be replaced with KNOWLEDGE and include judgment.

    I bet, and would bet big, that Palin, when shown a world map without any writing on it, could not name the countries on the map and tell us just a little bit about each one, a sentence or two.  (I couldn't do it, but then again, I'm not running for VP)

    First a cowboy. Now a maverick? Yeah, that's exactly who you want to handle complex problems.

    by gooderservice on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:31:43 AM PDT

    •  Here's why I don't focus on Palin's experience (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Creosote, LynneK, paintitblue, Mettu

      Ask yourself this question:  If the hard-right, evangelical Palin with a documented record of abusing public power for vendettas had 2 x, 5 x, 10 x, or even 20 x the amount of "Experience" and still the same crazy views, would you feel better about her?

      No thanks.  A naive and new politician could be fine if they're sharp, knowledgeable, honest, sane, and competent.  A worn and experienced politician is disastrous if they're crazy, ignorant, lying, fuzzy incompetents.

  •  Good work on the AP on the speech (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mjd in florida, paintitblue

    http://news.yahoo.com/...

    I don't have time to diary it, but someone should, as it's got excellent points in obama's favor.

  •  She plagiarized... (0+ / 0-)

    Why is this not an issue?

    She just quoted verbatim a recent speech from McCain

    She used the word forfeit in a national address and no one questions this and her speech is all praise with the pundits!!

    Wake up America! Get out the Vote

    Victory in Iraq is finally in sight ... he wants to forfeit.

    Terrorist states are seeking new-clear weapons without delay ... he wants to meet them without preconditions.

    Al Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America ... he's worried that someone won't read them their rights? Government is too big ... he wants to grow it.

    Congress spends too much ... he promises more.

  •  Everyone should read this: (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mjd in florida, LynneK, paintitblue, Mettu

    by Joe Klein of Time Magazine, in response to Palin's awful speech
    :

    ANGRY AMATEURS, by Joe Klein
    The story of the day out here in Minneapolis is the McCain campaign's war against the press. This has been building for some time. Those of us who have criticized the candidate--and especially those of us who enjoyed good relations with McCain in the past--have been subject to off-the-record browbeating and attempted bullying all year. But things have gotten much worse in recent days: there was McCain's rude, bizarre interview with Time Magazine last week. Yesterday, McCain refused to an interview with Larry King, for God's sake, because Campbell Brown had been caught in the commission of journalism on CNN the night before, asking McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds what decisions Sarah Palin had made as commander-in-chief of the Alaska national guard. (There was an answer that the unprepared Bounds didn't have: she had deployed them to fight fires.)

    So what's going on here? Two things. McCain is just plain angry at us. By the evidence presented in the utterly revealing Time interview, he's ballistic. This is a politician who needs to see himself as the man on the white horse, boldly traversing a muddy field...any intimations that he's gotten muddied in the process, or has decided to throw mud, are intolerable.

    The second thing is more insidious: Steve Schmidt has decided, for tactical reasons, to slime the press. He wants the public to believe that there is an unfair--sexist (you gotta love it)--personal assault going on against Palin and her family. This is a smokescreen, intended to divert attention from the very real and responsible vetting that is taking place in the media--about the substance of Palin's record as mayor and governor. Sure, there are a few outliers--and the tabloid press--who have fixed on baby stories. That was inevitable....the flip side of the personal stories that the McCain team thought would work to their advantage--Palin's moose-hunting and wolf-shooting, and her admirable decision to have a Down Syndrome baby. And yes, when we all fix on the same story, whether it's a hurricane or a little-known politician, a zoo ensues. But the media coverage of the Palin story has been well within the bounds of responsibility. Schmidt is trying to make it seem otherwise, a desperate tactic.

    There is a tendency in the media to kick ourselves, cringe and withdraw, when we are criticized. But I hope my colleagues stand strong in this case: it is important for the public to know that Palin raised taxes as governor, supported the Bridge to Nowhere before she opposed it, pursued pork-barrel projects as mayor, tried to ban books at the local library and thinks the war in Iraq is "a task from God." The attempts by the McCain campaign to bully us into not reporting such things are not only stupidly aggressive, but unprofessional in the extreme.

    "It's hard for citizens to pull up sticks." - George Bush, September 1, 2008
    "Ggleegog Bless America!" - Fred Thompson, September 2, 2008

    by GirlZero on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:35:49 AM PDT

  •  Sarah Palin fired me up... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mjd in florida, LynneK, paintitblue

    to buy $50 worth of merchandise at the Obama site...Shit, I may even start to volunteer, lazy ass that I am...

    Grandpa Simpson is a cartoon character...John McCain is an actual person...
    McCain/Whatshername '08

    by wry twinger on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:35:59 AM PDT

  •  And another Palin smackdown from Politico (5+ / 0-)

    Why the media should apologize

    By ROGER SIMON | 9/4/08 12:15 AM EST

    ST. PAUL, Minn. — On behalf of the media, I would like to say we are sorry.

    On behalf of the elite media, I would like to say we are very sorry.

    We have asked questions this week that we should never have asked.

    We have asked pathetic questions like: Who is Sarah Palin? What is her record? Where does she stand on the issues? And is she is qualified to be a heartbeat away from the presidency?

    We have asked mean questions like: How well did John McCain know her before he selected her? How well did his campaign vet her? And was she his first choice?

    Bad questions. Bad media. Bad.

    It is not our job to ask questions. Or it shouldn’t be. To hear from the pols at the Republican National Convention this week, our job is to endorse and support the decisions of the pols.

    Sarah Palin hit the nail on the head Wednesday night (and several in the audience wish she had hit some reporters on the head instead) when she said: "I’m not a member of the permanent political establishment. And I’ve learned quickly, these past few days, that if you’re not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone."

    But where did we go wrong with Sarah Palin? Let me count the ways:

    First, we should have stuck to the warm, human interest stuff like how she likes mooseburgers and hit an important free throw at her high school basketball tournament even though she had a stress fracture.

    Second, we should have stuck to the press release stuff like how she opposed the Bridge to Nowhere (after she supported it).

    Third, we should never have strayed into the other stuff. Like when The Washington Post recently wrote: "Palin is under investigation by a bipartisan state legislative body. ... Palin had promised to cooperate with the legislative inquiry, but this week she hired a lawyer to fight to move the case to the jurisdiction of the state personnel board, which Palin appoints."

    Why go there? What trees does that plant?

    Fourth, we should stop making with all the questions already. She gave a really good speech. And why go beyond that? As we all know, speeches cannot be written by others and rehearsed for days. They are true windows to the soul.

    Unless they are delivered by Barack Obama, that is. In which case, as Palin said Wednesday, speeches are just a "cloud of rhetoric."

    Fifth, we should stop reporting on the families of the candidates. Unless the candidates want us to.

    Sarah Palin wanted the media to report on her teenage son, Track, who enlisted in the Army on Sept. 11, 2007, and soon will deploy to Iraq.

    Sarah Palin did not want the media to report on her teenage daughter, Bristol, who is pregnant and unmarried.

    Sarah Palin thinks that one is good for her campaign and one is not, and that the media should report only on what is good for her campaign. That is our job, and that is our duty. If that is not actually in the Constitution, it should be. (And someday may be.)

    The official theme of the convention’s third day was "prosperity," but the unofficial theme was "the media are really, really awful."

    Even Mike Huckabee, who campaigned for president this year by saying "I am a conservative, but I am not mad at anybody," discovered Wednesday night that he is mad at somebody.

    "I’d like to thank the elite media for doing something," Huckabee said, "that, quite frankly, I didn’t think could be done: unify the Republican party and all of America in support of John McCain and Sarah Palin."

    And could that be the real point of the attacks on the media? To unify the Republican Party?

    No, that is simply the cynical, media view.

    Though as Lily Tomlin says, "No matter how cynical I get, it’s just never enough to keep up."

    I couldn’t resist that. For which I am sorry.

    Hihi

    http://www.politico.com/...

    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty ::Thomas Jefferson::

    by Jeremy10036 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:39:59 AM PDT

  •  McCain declares war on the press (0+ / 0-)

    Maybe the press should attack back.

    Now that would be a nice change.

    Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing. ~Arundhati Roy

    by LaFeminista on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:40:18 AM PDT

  •  Snotty condescention wrapped in bold bare faced (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LynneK, JClarkPDX

    lies with a whiny attack on the media.  yep, the bush people are handling fundie barbie.  When you are the party of Reagan, Schwartznegger, and Fred Thompson what is up with the attack on Hollywood?  Gregory Peck, Paul Newman, or Robert Redford, while very active in public policy never ran for office-and they would have been alot easier on the eyes!  Did you see them go quiet on Huchabees speech? "I saw first hand the horrible racism" He just about lost his audience there!

  •  Not Good News (0+ / 0-)

    Only 52% of women will vote for the Obama ticket?  Nt much of a gender gap.  Sounds to me like McCain's pick did exactly what it was intended to do.  If Obama only gets 52% of women, we lose.

    "At least the war on the environment is going well."

    by RenMin on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:42:48 AM PDT

    •  don't read in a vacuum (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LynneK, RenMin

      "[F]ew voters say that having Palin on the Republican ticket will change their vote much.  Just 14% say they are more likely to vote for McCain as a result of having Palin on the ticket, while about as many say they are less likely to do in their vote."

      Same 9/1 - 9/2 from CBS.

      We obviously need more polling after the speech.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:46:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  CAVE IN (3+ / 0-)

    My friends, he may not have caved in to the North Vietnamese, but John McCain certainly has surrendered to the extreme right wing of the Republican Party.  

  •  30%?? (0+ / 0-)

    how can 30% of those polled believe WcCain picked Palin because he believed she was ready to lead??

    Oy vay.

  •  LOL@the Campbell Brown prequel (0+ / 0-)

    No wonder McFailin doesn't want to answer her questions

    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty ::Thomas Jefferson::

    by Jeremy10036 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:51:27 AM PDT

  •  Nate Silver nails it (5+ / 0-)

    He doesn't mince words.

    In exceedingly plain English, I think there's a pretty big who the fuck does she think she is? factor. And not just among us Daily Kos reading, merlot-drinking liberals. I think Palin's speech will be instinctively unappealing to other whole demographics of voters, including particuarly working-class men (among whom there may be a misogyny factor) and professional post-menopausal women.

    I've never seen him be like this on a FP article on fivethirtyeight.com.

    And he's exactly right.

    "Now, being a POW certainly doesn't qualify anyone to be president." -Fred Thompson

    by duck on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:51:27 AM PDT

  •  McCain chose Palin to win the election .. (0+ / 0-)

    even if in doing so we lost the war on terror.

    McCain first; America last.

    This time it's personal.

    by apostrophe on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:54:30 AM PDT

  •  Sarah is just like a community organizer just (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    paintitblue

    with experience.

    Apparently, the Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity, Salvation Army, Goodwill, all the church groups, and all other community organizations do not do anything.  Sarah Palin and the great republican party do more for the country then they do.

    People stop giving your money to these orginizations, because they do not do anything for you, you nation of whiners.

    jamielswa

  •  Saddest of days (0+ / 0-)

    for the Gop! When the numbers just aren't there-they just aren't there!

    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction." --Blaise Pascal

    by lyvwyr101 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:57:16 AM PDT

  •  Commmunity organizing put-down didn't work. (4+ / 0-)

    Palin laid it out very clearly:

    Authoritarians think it is more important to dictate policy.

    Democrats think the voice of the people should be heeded.

    Amazingly out of touch...What a loser.

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -Thomas Jefferson

    by ezdidit on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:57:23 AM PDT

  •  Biden was on Good morning America (8+ / 0-)

    he didn't seem concerned at all. He was calm, cool and collected. They know how to deal with Palin. It seems they are treating her a credible candidate, and giving her respect. This I think is a good idea. If she is credible than her extreme positions are too, and so are her problems. The internal polling in the Obama camp must look really good.

  •  The Picture that's driving the Freepers NUTS! (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dehrha02, Kaity, JNSD, JClarkPDX, Mettu

    Palin_SiegHeil-4

    From CNN's RNC election coverage slideshow of last night.  It occurs at the :07 mark countdown (so close to the very end).

    And you do have to admit her outfit uniform had a very Aryan flavor to it.

    And the picture even manages to capture half of the runic font to the SS (ShutzStaffel - or "Private Squadrons"):

    SS_ShutzStaffel

  •  You know (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marrael, mjd in florida, LynneK, Mettu

    I finally figured out last night what bothered me the most about Palin, and I think it's because I hadn't put key facts together in my head.

    As a disclaimer, I obviously all her other faults and scandals are equally important. This is about what I think says the most to me personally about her character.

    She has a four month old child who has downs syndrome. And she's applying for a job that could make her a peripheral part of his life for the next eight years. I don't really care that her daughter's pregnant (I feel bad for Bristol, more than anything else. She was likely never properly educated about anything sexual and now has to deal with that for the rest of her life) or that her husband was arrested for drunk driving 20 years ago. I agree with Obama, and I think a lot of a candidates personal life should be off limits, unless it greatly clashes with their public persona and actions (i.e. Larry Craig or Ted Haggert).

    But I don't want to hear Palin called pro-life anymore. She is anti-abortion and that's it. People can applaud her decision to have the baby despite the difficulties of raising a child with downs syndrome, but pro-life does not mean foisting your baby off on a nanny for most of it's formative years so that you can go off and be an unqualified vice presidential candidate.

    I think it's time that Progressives start making a distinction between pro-life and anti-abortion. It we're going to make a big rhetorical stance and attempt to frame something linguistically in our favour, we should start there.

    /rant.

    "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

    by Kaity on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 06:04:13 AM PDT

    •  I want Palin to pledge.... (0+ / 0-)

      that she'll put in about 16-18 hours a day for the few years just to get up to speed on the foriegn policy side of things.

      Palin: She doesn't pass his experience test

      by dehrha02 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 06:39:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  TOTALLY totally agree (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marrael, hazzcon, mjd in florida, Kaity

      I have a child with Down syndrome and have loathed most of the coverage making Sara Palin out to be a saint. In the first place, having a baby with DS doesn't make you a saint. I had one. I'm not a saint. In the second place, I know that for babies with DS, the surrounding environment in their first months/years is absolutely crucial. I'm sure that he will be loved and stimulated by his father and siblings but where is his mother???

      I am a college-educated, middle-aged, in-your-face leftie feminist, Republicans would hate me. AND I am also a mother, and as a mother you put your children first. Look around: some women give up work because they think it's better for their children, others work two jobs because they think it's better for their children. Families switch neighbourhoods and jobs for their children's sake. They forgo all sorts of things for their children's sake. Because you PUT YOUR CHILDREN FIRST. You just do. It's the tiger mommy or bear mommy in us all.

      But not this woman.....I don't like, never have, the kind of mother that Sara Palin is. I don't like it that she is so detached from her baby and I don't like it that she is parading an accidentally-pregnant teenage daughter (and her boyfriend!) as some sort of bizarre electoral asset.

      THIS is "family values"??

      Am the only woman who feels like this? If I am, I will be truly confused.

      •  The term "Family Values" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mettu

        is essentially a caricature now, as most politicians who profess to commit to them are generally human cesspools of hypocrisy and vice.

        She's being touted as Saint Sarah for being so "pro-life" because she and her daughter "chose" to have their babies--I use chose loosely because I don't think Bristol ever had anything approaching a choice in the matter. But choosing to have a baby is not something to be applauded; committing to the baby, committing to raising it well and devoting the time and resources and love necessary to bring that child to their full potential as a human being is.

        You are definitely, definitely not the only woman who feels like this.

        "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

        by Kaity on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 07:09:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  ABC:Fired Alaskan Official "Palin Hasn't Been Tru (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, mjd in florida

    Fired Alaskan Official Says Palin Hasn't Been Truthful

    In a telephone interview Wednesday, Walt Monegan, the former Alaskan Public Safety Commissioner, said he was dismissed because he refused to fire the Governor's former brother-in-law, a state trooper.

    "I think there are some questions now that, coming to light about how transparent and how honest she wants to be," Monegan said.

  •  Some reactions to last night... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marrael, Creosote, mjd in florida, LynneK, JNSD

    Text messages sent to me by my soon-to-be-ex wife, a lifelong Republican during the Palin speech:

    "Are you watching the RNC? This VP broad sounds like a bad SNL character"

    "She's not saying anything of substance"

    "She sucks!"

    She (and the rest of her family) have been strongly considering crossing over to vote Democratic after her brother was sent to Iraq twice.  Sounds like last night didn't make her want to return to the fold.

  •  Palin recieved 909 votes for Mayor (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Creosote, mjd in florida

    NINE HUNDRED AND NINE! for her last run in 1999!

    http://www.cityofwasilla.com/...

  •  Cirque de soleil has nothing on the rethugs (0+ / 0-)

    The acrobatics feats are a sight to behold!

    Experience now does not matter, its judgment!...always was!

    Speeches that electrify now matter...always did!

    The internet is now filled with vicious lies and smears that the media picks up on!...always has!

    And all because of hockey mom, Sarah Palin, has the rethugs and McCain now seen the light!

    Nicole of the McCain camp nearly had an on air (Morning Joe) conniption at  Time Mag, Jay Carney, mere suggestion that they allow their "obvious proven capable" VP pick to actually answer questions of the big bad media.

    All the while Mark Halprin, has the gall to suggest that Robert Gibbs was terrified of the McCain fiasco VP pick and vetting process.

    Robert Gibbs by the way was simply magnificent! His tone was so on point, Joe Scar eventually got frustrated.

    And Joe was like a circus barker, touting that he had just witnessed the greatest show on earth that had ever been viewed by humans at the speech by Palin last night.

    What a joke!

    How does Noonan put it?  Oh yeah!....it’s over!

  •  Need help convincing a co-worker... (0+ / 0-)

    who I thought was a winger but turns out she wants to vote for Obama as she hates McCain. She is anti-establishment and feels that she also can't vote for Obama because she thinks he is "too establishment and has the Chicago machine behind him".

    I was ready for a debate but didn't expect this....I know he's not but does anyone have some fact to back me up and influence her to our side?

  •  We are up against it now... (0+ / 0-)

    ...and I can only assume this diary was written before assessing the impact of Palin's speech right now.

    Having seen her in action twice now, at her announcement and her speech last night, I have seen enough.

    This woman is a natural.  She has the potential to fill the shoes on the right wing of a charismatic leader who can appeal outside the box and across party lines.

    People are fixated on some of her political positions as being "too extreme."  That is exactly what they said about Reagan.  But human beings are complicated creatures.  Back in 1980 and 1984, Reagan got millions of people who may have disagreed with some of his political positions to vote for him because he suceeded in getting them to think of Reagan as "one of them."

    Reagan pulled it off partly because he was a trained actor.  Palin is pulling it off because she is the real thing.

    The enthusiasm gap was erased last night.  The reason I know this is because a good half of my family are on the other side, conservative evangelicals - my sister is a "hockey mom" as well.  Palin is resonating with them in a way I have never seen before, not even with Reagan.

    Obama was always the underdog, but the fight has just become more desperate.  

    I hope to see less and less diaries on this site pushing the notion Obama is cruising, ahead, has it in the bag, etc.  That is no longer the reality.  In politics you should not assume your opponents will give you any gifts, you have to win it on their own.

    Don't count on Palin stumbling.  She may, but don't count on it.  Assume the worst and plan accordingly and realize that Obama will only become President if we organize and get out the vote in an epic fashion.

  •  "Devout Christian" who lies and sneers (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    paintitblue

    and mocks efforts to help the poor.  And kicks all the people out of the temple to build a money-changers themepark and resort.

    Dulce bellum inexpertis [War is sweet only to those who have no experience of it].

    by Fatherflot on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 06:49:28 AM PDT

  •  All sizzle and no moose burger (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    timelad, Mettu
  •  Palin: All our Base Are Belong to us (0+ / 0-)

    and everyone else can go hang.

    Dulce bellum inexpertis [War is sweet only to those who have no experience of it].

    by Fatherflot on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 06:57:10 AM PDT

  •  Well, granted, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mettu

    I'm not a woman so I won't pretend to be any sort of expert on the subject, but the Palin pick seems terribly patronizing. As others have said, why not pick a woman whose service to her country and experience on the job has prepared her to be VP? This is one of several arguments Hillary supporters made for their candidate, and it's a legitimate one.

    Some say we need a third party. I wish we had a second party. -- Jim Hightower

    by joe m on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 07:11:23 AM PDT

    •  McCain needed the conservative/Christian vote (0+ / 0-)

      her being female pushed her over the top for the pick

      he's not after feminist votes (they will all go to BO anyway) - he wants to solidify the base and get the ppl who are on the fence

  •  Nine Percent = Trouble for Obama (0+ / 0-)

    Only nine percent of Clinton supporters said they thought they would vote Republican because Palin was on the ticket.

    ONLY??

    That number should be zero.  These are Democrats!  I might not sweat it if it was three.  But nine?  That sounds like a huge success to me.  Score NINE for McCain.  That's Clinton supporters, so presumably likely voters, voting Republican.  Can you imagine Obama taking a single action that results in NINE percent of, I don't know, Huckabee supporters switching sides?  Best VP pick ever, I'd say.

    I mean, somebody check my math.  Obama won the nomination with around 50% of Democrats as opposed to Hillary's 50%.  Basically a tie.  So is it wrong to assume that this VP pick is giving McCain 4.5 points?

  •  It's extremely weird (0+ / 0-)

    seeing someone "introduce" themselves to a national audience by attacking the community service of a Colombia and Harvard Law grad.

    Very weird.  

    So let me get this straight: McCain selects this person having done almost no research on her.  Predictably, all manner of baggage comes flying out, everything from chaos in her own home to ties to a freaking secessionist organization to messianic bullshit about the Iraq War.

    And yet, according to Palin, Obama's problematic?  And not only problematic, but problematic because there's something wrong with giving a flying fuck about a community?

    Yet another edition of GOP Moral Values.

    What a talentless hack Palin is.  A baggage-laden, hypocritical, talentless hack.  And I had assumed that despite having no experience and no qualifications for VP, that she was at least a decent person.  She and the remainder of the GOP disabused at least me of that notion last night.

    Not sure that the wild approval of those attacks which Bushists at the convention displayed will be shared by the rest of the country.  I personally was really turned off.

    "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

    by GN1927 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 07:18:39 AM PDT

    •  To be fair (0+ / 0-)

      she's trying to highlight that she has more executive experience and that community organizers don't make many executive decisions

      ppl's reactions to the content of what she said will no doubt be dependent on which way they lean, but I think it's delusional to think she didn't pass the test of "connecting" with average americans; again, we underestimate her at our own peril

      •  huh? (0+ / 0-)

        Last night is the first that I heard this person deliver a speech.  And rather than introduce herself, she tried to burnish her bona fides by denigrating someone who is head and shoulders above her.

        She came off as nasty, narrow-minded, willing to lie, and hypocritical.  Not sure if this is "underestimating her."  This is my impression of this woman.  Not a decent bone in her body.

        "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

        by GN1927 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 07:38:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  do you think (0+ / 0-)

          you might be exaggerating a little?

          "Not a decent bone in her body"?  

          comments like that make one see "nasty, narrow-minded"....

          there is no question BO is accomplished, charismatic (which is what you'd want in a leader) and has inspiring views on how to bring change, but when I try to see things from the other side I realize that GOPers might also think the same of Palin

          rather than trying to beat them by chopping Palin down (who seems to be someone the avg american can relate to whether we like it or not) we should be focusing our attacks on McCain and why BO is a better choice for POTUS

          •  I'm giving my impressions (0+ / 0-)

            I found several parts of her speech hateful and indecent.  Particularly targeting someone who graciously stated "hands off" of her shitload of baggage.  I'm allowed to give my impressions of the GOP's VP nominee and those are my impressions.

            "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

            by GN1927 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 07:50:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Has Emily's List polled the presidential race? (0+ / 0-)

    I am so sick and tired of these Rasmussen and other right-wing pollsters, I would prefer some accurate unbiased numbers from organizations like Emily's List.

    People power = LGBTQ marital rights = OBAMA '08!

    by kevinspa on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 07:37:40 AM PDT

  •  Does anybody out there have any extra Obama stick (0+ / 0-)

    Does anybody out there have any extra Obama stickers or t-shirts that i can give to my friends in the military here in San Diego? Any bit of help will allow me to push my friends in the right(left)way

    please contact me at scottwiro@hotmail.com

  •  McCain doesn't care about human rights. (0+ / 0-)

    For exampe, polygamy thrives in Colorado City, Arizona (McCain's home state)  where thousands of American families (10,000 people) are systematically stripped of their democratic rights and women & children are abused. John McCain hasn't lifted a finger to stop it. What qualifies McCain to be president when he can't even clean up the Taliban in his own backyard? Check out the recent alarming documentary, "Banking on Heaven". http://www.bankingonheaven.com

  •  opps backfire (0+ / 0-)

    They vacated their only real advantage of course they are taking a hit. I think the most damanging thing to them about the covention is total lack of positive ideas.

  •  I'm glad to hear people aren't swayed (0+ / 0-)

    I keep hearing positive things about Palin's speech and it's nice to know people aren't swayed by the rhetoric and are looking at the facts.

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