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On Monday, Al from The Field posted this diary recommending quarantine for the "Chicken Littles." I recommended and supported that diary, because I thought it was well written and dead on.

On Wednesday, a first time diarist had this diary rocket to the top of the rec list with a portion saying that the diarist would automatically hide rate any comment that was seen "useless" remark about what Obama should or should not be doing.  That got me thinking...this is not a good trend.

By Friday, I've gotten to the point where I've done a 180 from where I was Monday, and think it is time to address this stuff here and now.

I'm regretting being so full-throated in my endorsement of Al's diary on Monday, because now "Chicken Little" has become an ad hominem attack on anybody who might question the Obama strategy in the slightest.  I've worked plenty of campaigns, and seen the ins-and-outs of supporters and activists who can see no wrong in their candidates or campaign operations.  Those on the inside have a word for those type of people as well:

Kool Aid Drinkers.

Here's the deal.  I'm not about to call anybody here a Kool Aid Drinker, any more than I am going to call out somebody as a Chicken Little.  The fact remains, like every campaign, Obama is doing some great stuff, and Obama is lagging behind in some stuff too.

It's not being a Chicken Little to notice where Obama has been lagging behind.  And it not automatically concern trolling to be critical of that lag, ask questions, and offer constructive critiques.

Most of this is centering around the ad war.  A lot of people think the ads suck.  OK, fair point, if that's what you believe.  Doesn't make you a Chicken Little.  Nor does it make you a Chicken Little to say, "I think Obama should do X."  Sorry, it doesn't.

The typical response to a lot of this is "What the hell do you know? You're just a blogger. Shut up and move on."  Guess what? A lot of us have a hell of a lot of experience working campaigns.  Some of us even got paid for it from time to time.  Hell, Joe Trippi, who blogs here frequently, even said this morning on the radio that Obama needs to hit back harder on the ad front. Is he a Chicken Little too?

From my own personal experience, I'm a vet of a campaign that has some similar dynamics to Obama's campaign.  In 1996, I worked on the first Congressional campaign of the late Julia Carson in Indianapolis.  She was trying to become only the third African-American to be elected in a majority white district.  Her opponent was a long time friend from the Indiana State Senate, Virginia Blankenbaker.

Carson and Blankenbaker had a "gentlewoman's agreement" to run a positive, issue-oriented, honorable campaign against each other...similar to what I'm sure the understanding was between Obama and McCain earlier this year.  That eroded when Blankenbaker aired her first ad...a negative piece on Carson's crime record in the State Senate.

For awhile, we scrambled.  We wanted to get on the air first, but Blankenbaker beat us to the punch, and now the question was whether to do the positive "introduction" ad we had planned, or hit back hard on Blankenbaker's negative ad.  We debated what to do.  Ms. Carson and I were for staying positive. Our media consultant, our pollster, and the rest of the campaign said a response was needed or we risked being defined on the issue.

Turns our Ms. Carson and I were wrong, and they were right. After our response, the polling indicated that the crime issue was neutralized.  Blankenbaker continued to run negative ads, many of them featuring a confused looking Carson.  It made Julia livid, because it was a crystal clear attempt to play the race card to her.  And we continued to hit back on those ads, as well as run much more positive ads that stayed "above the fray."

So it is possible to fight and run a positive campaign.  And more importantly, you have to wage a campaign on all fronts.  Saying "don't worry about the ads...we've got the ground game" doesn't cut it.  In that race in 1996, people on the ground told me all we have to worry about was GOTV to turn out the base.  Bull. That was critically important, but each and every poll showed us down right until Election Day.  We needed the ad game, the GOTV game, and the persuadable voter ground game, canvassing, phone banks, the whole nine yards...ALL of it...to pull off a 5 point win.  We turned out our base African-American vote, to be sure, but we also performed very well in precincts that we targeted as persuadable...better than we expected in fact.

My point? Not once during that campaign was I afraid to speak my mind when I saw things going awry. And nobody here should feel it either. I realize that we're not part of the Obama's teams inner circle, but Obama has made has said this campaign is about US more than once.  If that's the case, then we need to speak up without fear of being attacked by others.  And helping to figure out the best way to get there is not a vice.  

Remember, Obama has said that he wanted to get a margin that was big enough so this election can't be stolen.  And I think what people are really scared of is that this election is getting close to stealing mode. That's a legitimate concern from my vantage point. Especially when (excuse my "concern") nary a word from the campaign has come out yet with respect to voter protection, and what the plan is this year.

Just like Obama has said, we ALL love this country.  We ALL want change.  We ALL want to win. And the vast majority of us are putting our time, money, energy, blood, sweat and tears to the effort.

So, let's lead by example and stop attacking each other.  If we want to be the change we seek, we start in our own house. Thanks for listening.

Originally posted to wmtriallawyer on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:20 AM PDT.

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  •  Support does not mean (297+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chris Bowers, deminva, wozzle, ReichstagNation, Kitty, Ed in Montana, Angie in WA State, eugene, hester, dansac, Jackson L Haveck, slinkerwink, Rimjob, GreenSooner, Raybin, Gooserock, kainah, PeterHug, dengre, Coldblue Steele, Psyche, SanJoseLady, DCCyclone, ThirstyGator, Matilda, musicsleuth, bumblebums, mataliandy, sardonyx, geordie, mrsdbrown1, bronte17, Ian S, KibbutzAmiad, AlyoshaKaramazov, Melquiades, Bensdad, ksh01, mrblifil, SingularExistence, kanuk, superba, MazeDancer, Terre, ThatsNotFunny, dmsilev, bobcatster, CocoaLove, Quege, mayan, Getreal1246, oldjohnbrown, MadLibrarian, pat bunny, milton333, BmoreMD, logsol, AAGeek, grannyhelen, Fyodor, exiledfromTN, ohiolibrarian, rockhound, beachmom, lcrp, alizard, kfred, tomjones, ScienceMom, claudew, kscatlvr2001, averageyoungman, chumley, paige, radarlady, Ckntfld, blueyedace2, JaciCee, SherwoodB, PBen, Jersey Girl, Omir the Storyteller, frandor55, Cat Nerd, Dobber, devadatta, FutureNow, bleeding blue, Mr X, Barcelona, sheddhead, Cyber Kat, deep, miguelmas, doe, Ekaterin, ZinZen, Brubs, jay23, Jim R, jiordan, mspicata, trashablanca, Sanuk, BalanceSeeker, Do Tell, Pacifist, PatsBard, Pinko Elephant, tung sol, Hear Our Voices, martyc35, InsultComicDog, fromer, Magnifico, IvanR, Partially Impartial, triv33, aepm, HairyTrueMan, Rachel in Vista, gooderservice, DJShay, slandurgurl, real world chick, Terminus, Pager, NearlyNormal, Andy30tx, quantumspin, zhimbo, shaharazade, kurious, anabelle, zephron, ChuyHChrist, Bobjack23, One Pissed Off Liberal, jamesmcyang, Buckeye Hamburger, high coup haiku, dotsright, khereva, wa ma, dmh44, FWIW, SemDem, Dartagnan, LoosCanN, power2truth, Kodiak54, SJLeonidas, operculum, Sean in Motion, ronlib, malharden, 99 Percent Pure, Orange County Liberal, Seneca Doane, misreal, chicago jeff, vbdietz, keenekarl, Uberbah, Moderation, Rumarhazzit, 2ajpuu, word player, madgranny, seanarama, skaye19, TomP, gizmo59, rmonroe, RisingTide, VA Breeze, BustaVessel, MKinTN, MissyH, somtam, condorcet, brklyngrl, zerone, BlueTape, beltane, LarsThorwald, left my heart, icebergslim, MsWings, Tam in CA, temptxan, Chrispy67, winterbanyan, xysea, rapcetera, DixieDishrag, omegajew, BYw, red 83, AlBob, Alice AN, Tyrannocaster, dont think, ErinW43, In her own Voice, Simply Agrestic, Scubaval, J Ash Bowie, J M F, Mr Tentacle, Fonsia, Texanomaly, litoralis, irishhawkeye33, rcnewton, Anne Elk, WereBear, ManahManah, DemocraticOz, julibug, crazyshirley2100, history geek, jck, mrchumchum, shunpike, MingPicket, Mercuriousss, zbbrox, ye ye ye, Myrrhis, bleigh82, oliver cromwell, The Liberty of Meat, billysumday, paintitblue, IDrankWhat, BlueMama, XNeeOhCon, bbagley1, sea2008, audiored, Donise, Katie71, Nonconformist, reesespcs, FundaMental Transformation, Sleepwalkr, Oldengrey, angel d, futureliveshere, Reason to believe, collardgreens, browneyes, pubasnacks, ozarkspark, capasb, Clyde the Cat, kfd313, doghaven, Sean O, kcandm, David PA, Shannon S, lcarr23, nlr, CandyKat, amk for obama, TheWesternSun, stunzeed, on board 47, chrome327, Mycue, Mara Jade, tod from abq, BonnieSchlitz, Eddie L, Focusmarker, creamer, ahyums, Chris Carlson, elginblt, Lize in San Francisco, Surly Cracker, Micheline, nycjoc, BlueTesuque, itswhatson, 4kedtongue, Floande, bottles, around the way girl, weathertom, Shelbyville Manhattan, bicycle Hussein paladin, FeloniousMonk, Rebecca74, Hail Ceaser

    lock step thinking.

    And cooling out doesn't mean "SYFPH."

    We need to get beyond this now.

    No idea is off the table.

    And all hands are on deck.

    It's not about Palin. It's about McCain. Don't let them hide the ball.

    by wmtriallawyer on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:21:19 AM PDT

  •  A lot of people calling others "concern trolls".. (42+ / 0-)

    ... are whistling past the graveyard and living in a state of denial. Talking about bad trend-lines, bad polls or bad news in general is not being a "troll." It's initiating dialogue to help reverse the bad news. Those condescending idiots who yell out "concern troll" with no text, every time you spout a fact they're not comfortable with, are just that. Idiots.

    Cindy: "Honey, if you have trouble sleeping, count your houses!"

    by OReillysNightmare on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:23:42 AM PDT

    •  By the same token (12+ / 0-)

      I was called an "ostrich" by a very vocal Kossack the other day when I pointed out favorable state polling and ground game.

      Just sayin'.

      •  I'm talking with canvasers in three states. (13+ / 0-)

        They are indeed organized, but they aren't able to do certain things that only Obama can do to convince people to vote for him.  That ground game may be organized, but it isn't necessarily gaining any ground based on what I'm hearing from these people who are in a word "panicked" right now.  

        The race is basically in a dead heat and some key states that were supposed to make up for Ohio and Florida are not in great shape.  The situation is in need of some change.  

        A sense of urgency amongst supporters would do this campaign a lot of good imo.  

        The reality is that this choice that Americans will make is historic not because of women or African Americans on the ticket - it is historic because we will either pull back from the edge or go over it depending on which candidate prevails.  The Obama camp needs to get serious about defining the choice because McCain won't to it - he will continue to hide behind Palin as long as he possibly can.  The canvasers are only going to be as effective as the campaign is itself.  Right now, it has problems. Facing that fact rather than relying on a tiny percentage of Obamacans and young cell phone voters that nobody can really prove exist as yet, will not help the situation.  

        I think a little bit of panic is a good thing - keeps people from thinking that they can slack off - I knew several people in 2004 who did not GOTV for Kerry because they believed the polls showing him ahead.  The only reliable poll is the one that is taken on election day.  That's the poll you work to change and if you assume you're behind every day before that - you might just have a chance at winning on the day that counts.

        •  Exactly (6+ / 0-)

          I think a little bit of panic is a good thing - keeps people from thinking that they can slack off

          I was going to say the same thing, but you said it better.

          New Rule - If you can remember where you were when Pearl Harbor was attacked, you cannot run for president.

          by gooderservice on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:36:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  John McCain was never going to be easy to (3+ / 0-)

            beat.  It has driven me crazy for months and months that bloggers have put that notion forth and on some level even crazier that the Obama camp hasn't shot that line of thinking down.  People might have been better prepared for the fight we are in right now had they not been allowed to think this was going to be easy.

            It is going to get much harder too.  With Palin on the ticket, McCain has activated the church ground game which is extremely powerful and more organized than any Democratic Party operation could ever hope to be.  

            This race will come down to finding and hooking a small group of undecided voters who have no sense of loyalty to the Democratic Party platform and who aren't madly in love with Obama - they are going to require something in exchange for their vote - they aren't likely to be the folks who are easily swept up by romantic notions of hope or history - they are going to need a reason to vote for Obama and not just against John McCain - a reason that is practical - and a reason that they don't have to go find on a website - they require hand-feeding and an ask for the vote - not a "choice" - they need to be courted.  

            The more I think about it, the more I've been thinking that Obama needs to pretend that this constituency is just like Michelle was when they first met and she wouldn't go out on a date with him - he needs to persist and show these people the passion he has about being in their lives.

      •  You're absolutely right. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Orange County Liberal, BlueMama

        It cuts both ways. That's what I like about this diary--it doesn't call out one specific group or another--it's basically a heads up to all of us.

        What's a good atheist substitute for "God bless America and Godspeed to you all"? Have a nice day and drive fast?

        by Pager on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:32:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Good point and I lived it (7+ / 0-)

      I posted my first diary in 4 years last Friday... in my mind not "trolling" or sounding negative... Now I received over 40 responses (not one tip or rec unfortunately) and most were quite positive and thoughtful.

      However I did receive more than few knee-jerk reactions or trolling etc.

      I posed a question that in my mind was curiosity... nothing negative at all!

      Doesn't change a thing about my reading habits...I love daily kos and always will...but frankly it makes me pretty hesitant to ever write another diary...

      •  Honestly, I think that some of the people (6+ / 0-)

        most committed to telling people to chill out and calling people "chicken littles" don't have good intentions for the Obama campaign.  

        Just remember that John McCain's camp would like nothing better than having Obama supporters and Democrats in general get over confident and lazy about this effort.

        That diary on Monday had me seriously thinking about not participating any further for the duration of this campaign because I am not feeling good about how this is going and if I can't be honest about that and I am going to be shunned for pointing out a problem - then why bother?  

        Screw people like Al - he's some self appointed marshal and frankly based on what he wrote the other day, I can't see him being effective at reaching out to anyone but the already converted - what we need right now are voters who aren't in our column yet - we haven't captured those people and there are reasons for that which need to be addressed.

      •  You're not the only one it happens to. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Orange County Liberal, TomP, David PA

        I didn't read your diary, but...

        You needn't be hesitant to communicate here.  No one is better or worse than you.

        :)

        New Rule - If you can remember where you were when Pearl Harbor was attacked, you cannot run for president.

        by gooderservice on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:38:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Echo chamber effect (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Orange County Liberal

      Limit news to that seen at dKos and on many days, one gets the impression that Obama is kicking ass and his election is a sure thing.  We've got an echo chamber.

      Check out the lipstick "scandal".  Even when cable news stations reported the truth, that McCain was full of shit, they still said McCain had "won" the exchange.  Why?  Because he forced Obama "off message".  No mention of McCain being forced off message, or of how Obama goaded him into showing the world what a whiney jackass he is.  David Gergen even remarked on the "cleverness" of the McCain campaign.  

      This is what we face.  Even when Obama wins, he loses.  There is much work to be done if he is to win in November.

      "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

      by Subterranean on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:02:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It wasn't always like this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Orange County Liberal

      I hate to say it, but the majority of the mindless "concern troll" accusations and abusive HR use seems to be coming from relatively newer members. I don't know why that is, but they don't seem to understand that this site was set up as a forum for ALL PEOPLE to express themselves and discuss ideas (ANY ideas) openly, something that wasn't allowed on sites like Redstate. As an example, for several months after 9/11 people were posting diaries implying that it was an inside job. Many disagreed and there was spirited debate, but these people were mostly treated with respect. Try posting a "9/11 inside job" or other controversial diary now and see what happens. The diary nazis with throw you down a deep dark hole. Hell, these days post a comment that these people deem "not useful" (hmmm, a tad subjective wouldn't you say?) and they scream in all upper case "DELETE THIS COMMENT." Sadly, it's getting harder and harder to tell Dkos apart from sites like Redstate in terms of raw censorship. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I'm fed up and it's time for them to back off and get over themselves.

  •  Yeah. (15+ / 0-)

    We don't need any more division.

    What we can't lose sight of is that we all want Obama as our president. We just naturally disagree on what the right way to make that happen will be.

    I know I'm confused right now. It seems like something in the campaign needs shaking up, but I don't know where or how.

    "I'm the guy who does his job. You must be the other guy."

    by Shelbyville Manhattan on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:24:14 AM PDT

  •  It is a difficult strait to navigate (12+ / 0-)

    between the two, on this site in particular.

    Who was Bush_Horror2004, anyway?

    by Dartagnan on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:24:31 AM PDT

  •  the difference (27+ / 0-)

    is the constant barrage of negative diaries coupled with an avalanche of "OBAMA GONNA LOSE IF HE DOESN'T LISTEN TO MEEEEE!!!!!!!", much of it containing contradictory advice from equally confident "strategists."

    The other difference is that "the kool-aid drinkers" acknowledge that the race is tight, despite the angry accusations from the CL's, we just think there are a variety of other factors at work and tend to ignore the nonsense of the cable pundits.

    •  I've seen a lot of comments saying (9+ / 0-)

      "ignore this poll because" X
      "ignore this poll because" Y

      I'm not sure what data it would take to show some of the commenters here on the site that a bit of a tweak is necessary.

      Success is the child of audacity. --Disraeli

      by ChuyHChrist on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:26:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  huh? (12+ / 0-)

        I didn't say anything about polls. In fact, I specifically acknowledged that the race is tight.

        The difference is that I don't make faulty inferences like insisting that a post-convention boost is the result of the same pointless stream of negative ads that have been on a constant leap when Obama was down 3 and up by 9.

        The problem is that people take the data and then twist that to mean whatever they want to "prove" themselves right, ignoring the possibility that there are many factors that cannot be easily controlled.

        •  The shallowness is the problem (4+ / 0-)

          All CL diaries depend on weird post-hoc reasoning or weird pop sociology that isn't justified.  That's what makes then chicken little diaries.

          Manny goes to Hollywood :(

          by theran on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:40:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It goes both ways (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ChuyHChrist

          It's simple, people: Obama is behind in the polls, and he was not in that place a few weeks ago. Some people believe he can reverse it, some are worried he can't.

          What we all need to agree on is:

          1. He really is behind in the polls and will lose if that isn't reversed
          1. We need to do whatever we can to help reverse it - whether it's developing our own messaging, doing our own GOTV, or beating on the doors of the Obama campaign to get them to wake up.

          The whole CL/KAD debate is really about who controls Daily Kos and not about how we win the election. People need to stop feeling the need to silence dissenting voices and instead start figuring out how we fix this.

          I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day
          Neither is California High Speed Rail

          by eugene on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:13:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  That nonsense (5+ / 0-)

      Tends to translate into support for our opponents. I agree with you regarding your other points, but the lack of leadership has me feeling a little lost as to where the strategy is heading - something the Republican base doesn't have to question.

      Slap happy is a platform.

      by averageyoungman on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:28:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  only on DailyKos (11+ / 0-)

        does lack of leadership mean "following all of my amateur advice."

        You need television ads to lead you around? Really?

        Here's a tip:

        Turn off the corporate propaganda, watch any of the awesome recent speeches from Obama and Biden.

        •  Absolutely not (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slinkerwink, Cat Nerd, Uberbah, shunpike

          That's not what I said. I don't even have cable. I don't but into it, ever. DKos is one of my main news sources, and if I feel like I need another viewpoint I source it.

          I don't need ads to lead me around, I would like the Obama campaign and our party leaders to show more leadership. In part by implementing strategy that puts them back on their feet and less on their heels.

          I have a ton of faith in them still. It's fine for us to ignore the propaganda on a personal level, but it's not sufficient for the party or campaign to do the same.

          Slap happy is a platform.

          by averageyoungman on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:37:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And to tell you the truth (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            slinkerwink, Uberbah, shunpike, angel d

            I don't really appreciate being lumped into that group. I haven't attempted to force my amateur advice on anyone, and I don't go around screaming that the sky is falling. I'm simply making observations, an I think it's fine for me to feel a bit disillusioned regarding what I perceive to be a lack of leadership.

            Slap happy is a platform.

            by averageyoungman on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:39:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I don't need TV, it's the people of PA and rural (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          eugene, milton333, Cat Nerd

          areas, semi-rural areas. Have you ever had any contact with the ordinary Americans of the US?
          They watch TV.

          I can't help that you don't get this. You must be in some college enclave.

          To Whom Much is given, Much is expected.

          by lizhoyt on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:56:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Republicans don't have to question strategy? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pamelabrown

        Or a lack of leadership? Their entire campaign is based around their VP and negative ads right now, their supposed leader is clueless in appearances without her. And apparently, she's clueless in appearances outside her element. The lead they have is very real, the enthusiasm among their base dangerous, but at the same time the campaign itself is a house of cards that they'll have to walk a very delicate line to maintain all the way to November. Recognizing Obama's weaknesses is fine, but don't ascribe superpowers to the opposition.

        •  But their base loves it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slinkerwink

          Superpowers? Rather, "Superobedience." They are the ones controlling the cable news cycles right now, and they have their message wired, which has the base in lockstep - that's all I'm saying.

          Don't think I'm saying it's good. Like I told slink before I have to constantly refrain from printing the scathing thoughts that pass through my head about their base.

          Whether it's simply them swallowing it hook line and sinker, or a belief in the message, I could give a shit. They don't think she's clueless, o negative etc. This is the point I'm making.

          Slap happy is a platform.

          by averageyoungman on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:47:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  This is way too simplistic (6+ / 0-)

      First of all not all of the diaries noting concerns are even remotley presented as the "Obama will lose if..." that you suggest and plenty of reasonable diaries get swept into that category by the herd mentality of squashing dissent that developed this week.

      Secondly, don't be so quick to assume that all of the people calling people out this week are convinced that the race is tight.  Many of them (note that I do not claim it is all, it would be the same error in reverse) essentially say: SYFPH we essentially have this won unless whiners like you don't bring us down.

    •  The fact that this diary (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jodygirl

      even contains language like "koolaid drinkers" is troublesome.  Once again the left aids and abets the right by spreading their memes about ourselves.  What campaign would listen to people so flatfooted when it comes to their own message discipline?  I wouldn't.

      "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

      by GN1927 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:37:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But you are fine (7+ / 0-)

        with folks running around calling others Chicken Littles and demanding that members of our coalition to SYFPH?

        •  Chicken little (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jodygirl

          does not imply someone is in a cult.  SYPH does not imply someone is in a cult.  The namecalling is no good, the diarist has a point in that.  That's not my point.

          What I am saying is please do not use language which unwittingly spreads GOP framing.  Trafficking in cult language makes folks part and parcel of a Republican effort to discredit Obama and deflate his grassroots organization by implying that there is something irrational about being excited about his campaign.  This is a point separate and apart from any point about all of us stopping any namecalling.

          Again, who would take strategy suggestions from people who can't discipline and craft their own messaging to at the very least not unwittingly reinforce a theme that our candidate is a "rock star" with cultish followers?  Unable to discipline and craft messaging to at the very least not reinforce a theme that the Obama campaign is incompetent and weak?

          "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

          by GN1927 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:56:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  We're getting overrun by mini-Shrums (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elmo, lauramp, stunzeed

      Everyone here wants to be a campaign manager, and tell Obama what he's doing wrong, instead of keeping the faith that he's obviously doing many things right.

      I understand the inclination to offer advice, and I understand the apparently wide-spread worry that we're going to snare defeat from the jaws of victory, but the echo chamber of negativity does nothing but sap morale. If you read DKos regularly, you'd think Obama was a clownshoes chump who was getting thumped in the polls, all because he wouldn't listen to us. I don't see the productivity in that at all.

      •  it isn't productive (0+ / 0-)

        it's destructive. How many people just lurk here, see all this handwringing, and give up? Not to mention the glee generated in enemy camps when they read all this carping.

        No, if you've got to complain, complain in the real world to the meat people in your lives. Don't do it publicly on the internets.

      •  right back atcha (0+ / 0-)

        The Kool Aid drinkers are Shrums because they think the same "stay positive and on the issues", with a 0-3 record since 88, will really work this time.

  •  Choosing not to Spread negativity (18+ / 0-)

    is not the same as thinking a campaign can do no wrong. Doubt is contagious, and the opponent is looking to take advantage of any percieved weekness.

    •  But don't you see that you are essentially (6+ / 0-)

      trying to squash dissent by dismissing it all as spreading negativity?  As the diarist mentions, many here are not as amateur as many suspect (I admit that I am) but we aren't the only ones seeing the need for a shakeup.

      Many figures in the traditional media recognize it, major bloggers like Arriana Huffington see it, various Democratic strategists recognize it.  hell, even the Obama campaign recognized it.  it is the whole premise of rolling out new ads this morning, saying that Biden will hit harder, etc.  

      By your standards, nobody should call for a timeout to make small adjustments because it is simply fomenting negativity.

      •  You have valid points. (0+ / 0-)

        However, my satement was not a dismissal of doubt or dissent, nor did I suggest that the campaign should not make adjustments. I have observed that the campaign has done a fine job in the face of massive doubt (even my own).

        I only wanted to point out that it can be more helpful to remind ourselves that what we focus on will increase.

        Peace

  •  My problem is the 'very concerned' people are (27+ / 0-)

    demotivating the rest of us, for whom optimism is important. I don't think either group is burying its head in the sand--I certainly am not, though I remain confident we will prevail--but it isn't fair for others to fling their anxieties and worries onto the rest of us.

    Ah no, it's always just my luck to get/ One perfect rose

    by kat68 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:26:07 AM PDT

  •  Great diary (11+ / 0-)

    ...which makes some much-needed, intelligent distinctions.

    Balance is key:  acknowledge when things could be going better, but don't panic.  

    And most of all, WORK.  Do the part you can do:  registering voters, knocking doors, phone banking, donating.  

    Thanks.

    JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's 3rd term.

    by chumley on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:27:53 AM PDT

    •  but the anecdote is inapposite (0+ / 0-)

      I doubt that wmtriallawyer took his disagreement with the campaign strategy public, after his advice was not accepted.

      Everybody realizes what we write here is public, right?

  •  REC this Diary! (6+ / 0-)

    very well said. We do have a right no voice our opinions. I am as objective as they come and haven't criticized Obama until now. The ad game does need to get tougher and on the offense...

    Thanks for articulating your points so well.

  •  We must channel our anger against the MSM (8+ / 0-)

    I personally feel that the MSM is responsible for what is going right now. I mean McCain is now three points ahead of Obama in the daily tracking poll so there is cause of concern because that drives media narrative and that could affect people's enthusiasm.

    •  the MSM needs something to focus on (5+ / 0-)

      They love dramatic narrative. If Obama's campaign gave them something, they would run with it. It's not something "the base" can do.

      Success is the child of audacity. --Disraeli

      by ChuyHChrist on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:30:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Traditional Media this morning (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eugene, 99 Percent Pure, Uberbah

      Constantly battered the Obama campaign for talking about Palin all the time.  I rarely have the urge to shout at my TV, but I thought to myself, "No, YOU GUYS are talking about Palin all the time.  Obama is running against McSame!"

      The trad-med needs this race to be close so they have viewers, so that people tune in and pick up their papers.  I just hope there are lots of people out there like the undecided woman I talked to last week who is waiting for the debates to be over before she makes a decision.

      •  Obama has not been talking about Palin (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Uberbah

        This is what I mean by channeling our anger towards the media. The media needs to be called out for this bs. It is better that we do it rather than the Obama campaign.

      •  And that is why supporter hysteria is so constant (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lauramp, geejay, Micheline

        -- because they are listening/watching the duplicitous, corrupt corporate media talking heads' attempts to set the Obama campaign narrative, obviously with as much oblivion to the truth as McCaint and his running mate.

        Look, there's nothing wrong with people voicing their displeasure with the way the campaign is run, but it ought to be channeled in an appropriate manner, mainly by contacting the campaign and offering up lucid suggestions.  

        On the other hand, individuals constantly contacting the campaign by phone and email, and posting a comment or a diary about each and every personal displeasure is defeatist and doesn't help anything, except to give the opposition the impression that supporters aren't satisfied with the candidate.

        There's the appropriate and the inappropriate way to critique the campaign without criticizing the candidate because - check this out - Obama's not going to change his manner of campaigning, no matter how much we may want him to go negative on the opposition candidate. Those who say there's a way to go negative without appearing to do so need to contact the campaign and give them samples of how it is done.  

        Maybe a lot of us get offended at the language used when commenters and diarists are in critique mode.  Words matter and "Obama needs to do this" and "Obama has to do that" isn't going to get the attention of the campaign, nor inspire others to support the proposed idea for improving the narrative or the ads or whatever.  

        Lots of calls and emails to the campaign aren't going to be met with affection either.

        "It is time for them to own their failure." Presidential Candidate Barack Obama, 08/28/2008

        by 99 Percent Pure on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:25:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eugene, Micheline

      They are responsible. The pig/lipstick stuff was just out of control. But I think 9/11 gave McCain his boost.

      To err is human. To forgive, divine.

      by Highwind on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:46:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I prefer the term (0+ / 0-)

      "righteous indignation".

  •  Obama wants our feedback (12+ / 0-)

    we should call the campaign at (866) 675-2008 and press 6 after the menu to talk to a volunteer at HQ.

    Also, thank you for posting this diary. This was needed.

  •  Let me provide an example (17+ / 0-)

    My wife (who posts on this site) is heavily involved in the campaign. She has been working her ass off for the last month coordinating phone banks and canvasses.  We're also working with local Democrats running for state office.

    Last night she's watching the service forum, and she is pissed because in her view Obama is letting the Republican memes go unanswered on "community organizers" and other issues.  She wants to write a Diary about how she felt about the debate. She writes ine and asks me to review it. I do, and it's clearly one that will elicit catcalls and accusations of concern trollery. I advise her not to write it. She goes to bed, cursing the site.

    Who was Bush_Horror2004, anyway?

    by Dartagnan on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:30:47 AM PDT

  •  Rec'd (6+ / 0-)

    As a Democrat, I expect to see a healthy debate from both sides of an issue.  Sometimes in a large community like this, it gets all too easy to march in lock-step and think our candidate is always right and their candidate is always wrong.

    I've been wondering the last couple days why community members feel the need to so disparage someone who posts a "concern" diary.  We are all allowed one diary a day, and if someone wants to post what they wanna post, what concern is it of ours?  As quickly as things scroll off the new diary list, the "concern" diaries rarely get traction anyway.

    •  Because to some Kossacks (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Uberbah, angel d

      Maintaining the "party line" on this site is more important than winning the election. I'm not kidding.

      I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day
      Neither is California High Speed Rail

      by eugene on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:18:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I see it the other way (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew

        I see us defeating ourselves with a negative attitude.

        Honestly, do you think anything written on Dailykos is going to change or even reach Obama's eye? I'm pretty sure he's too busy these days to check in and browse around here.

        No, all these diaries do is just vent the writer's emotions, perhaps discouraging and demoralizing readers in the process because of the public nature of this site.

  •  Thank you. I have been involved in local (7+ / 0-)

    politics and volunteered in campaigns before.  Am I a campaign strategist?  No.  But anyone with an overview of the football field can see the gaps in offense or defense.

    To make a suggestion, or to be constructive critical of progress so far, is not indicative of arrogance or hubris.  It's indicative of caring and concern.

    The upshot?  I want Barack Obama to win.  I will vote, hand out stickers, phone bank, donate, talk to neighbors, canvas - AND cricitize, if I feel it's appropriate.

    Vote like your life depended on it.

    by xysea on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:32:09 AM PDT

  •  Chicken Littles and Trolls (18+ / 0-)

    But when I see comments and diaries that consistently include phrases like "I just feel like giving up" and "Obama has disappointed me so much now," etc. etc. and then check the diarist/commenter and find their ID is less than a week old, which I've done at least a dozen times just this week, I'm calling that troll out.  These people are not Chicken Littles, they are trolls.

    •  In the original Chicken Little tale, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elmo, ticket punch, David PA

      CL and his various friends were double-crossed by a sly FOX who took advantage of their mass hysteria. I really do think there are trolls among us who are fanning the concern flames to discourage us. Most of the worriers, of course, are genuine Obama supporters who are genuinely concerned, but when someone posts a three-sentence diary that basically just says, "Obama is a wimp, he sucks, this is just like Dukakis, we're d00000med!", it makes me wonder.

    •  which ones, exactly? (0+ / 0-)

      But when I see comments and diaries that consistently include phrases like "I just feel like giving up"

      Not that constant.

      Obama has disappointed me so much now

      Uh, maybe because he has done a lot of things to disappoint us?  FISA?  Legitimizing Fox News?  That 2004 would be the last year a Democrat failed to take it hard to the GOP?

  •  Criticism of the campaign is fine (9+ / 0-)

    and I'm getting way tired of the screams of "delete this diary now" every time someone says anything even faintly negative about how Obama is running his campaign.  We're liberals; the difference between us and the other side is that we win by telling the truth.

    But the reason people here scream so loudly when they see a diary critical of Obama is because of the huge onslaught of content-free diaries that sprang up last week.  Probably a lot of them were from new members who didn't read the site guidelines for length and substance or stick around long enough to see how we do things around here.  They just grabbed their free soapbox and spewed.  I was damned sick of it--almost blocked the site on my browser, but it seems to have quieted down this week as the new members are absorbed into the community.

    All this infighting is a symptom of the fact that we wish Obama was in a better position right now and we're unhappy about it.  Let's discuss that--we win by telling the truth.

  •  I've posted this before, and I will post it again (20+ / 0-)

    The frustration at how the campaign is run is not unique to a few "concern trolls." Frustration with the campaigns passivity, lack of control over their message, inability to control the news cycle has reached a chorus with almost all the major bloggers -- Josh Marshall, Crooks&Liars, John Aravosis and media personalities like Paul Begala & Thomas Friedman -- criticizing the Obama campaign's ad and press strategy.

    Concern troll calls rub me the wrong way. It's the same strategy that Republicans use when they call Obama unpatriotic. It ends the conversation.

    Real patriotism is not loving your country whether it is right or wrong. Real patriotism is having faith that your country can change for the better.

    Similarly, real love of your party, whether that be Democratic or Republican, does not require us to be uncritical, rather it requires us to remain active in our conversation. That's what a democracy is about.

    It's not about censoring speech by calling out someone's patriotism or calling them a concern troll.

    •  Great comment. n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      angel d, browneyes

      It's not about Palin. It's about McCain. Don't let them hide the ball.

      by wmtriallawyer on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:38:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How does anyone know... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      99 Percent Pure, stunzeed

      and all of those folks are pundits that are not that versed in running real campaigns. So the question is, how does anyone know that the Obama campaign has not looked at how ads really affect the outcome and figured out that in the end they really don't affect the outcome that much and they have decided to focus their efforts differently.

      Also, we live in a media world where what happens today is the only thing that is remembered, there simply is no evidence that ads this far out would have any real affect on any voters decision 2 months from now. So perhaps Obama, is wisely keeping cash and forcing McCain so spend like hell and then he'll use up 100 million dollars worth of ads in the last 2 weeks when McCain is mostly out of money?

      There is a lot to strategy here rather than the tactical day to day that we all focus on that a lot of people are missing. That is to say, perhaps those that focus on the day to day are missing the forest for the trees here...

      What we do for ourselves dies with us, what we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. (Albert Pine)

      by laughingriver on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:47:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not the ADS, it's the COMMENT (0+ / 0-)

        on talk shows. We need surrogates to get out there and get on talk shows.

        To Whom Much is given, Much is expected.

        by lizhoyt on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:04:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What shows??? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          paintitblue, stunzeed

          Seriously, in the last 7 days, Obama has been on O'Reily, ABC, Countdown, the Late Show and is on SNL this weekend. Seriously, we're just 7 days fromn the end of the RNC with 9/11 in between and a major freakin hurricane bearing down on Texas.

          Biden was on MTP last weekend also.

          Has McCain been in front of any press since then, how about the last 4 weeks? From my vantage point the dems have been out here fat more than McCain and Palin have been...

          What we do for ourselves dies with us, what we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. (Albert Pine)

          by laughingriver on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:14:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Yes, Joe Trippi IS a chicken little (4+ / 0-)

    He's another relic of past elections, past strategies.

    We "kool-aid drinkers" are supportive of Obama for transcending the past, for treating the US electorate like adults.  To do what the "chicken littles" want, throw more red meat, is to undermine the very premise of Obama's campaign.

    Change is us, not him.  We have to make the change, we the American People.  Barack Obama is nothing more than an organizing principle, something he's been very forthright about.

  •  Would you PLEASE (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, theran, elmo, geejay, kat68, stunzeed

    not willfully spread language regarding cults for 53 days?  Afterwards, have at it with the kool-aid meme.  

    For people who love to make nonstop suggestions regarding campaign strategy, it is stunning, and not in a good way, that taking the basic step of ridding our own language of right wing themes and baseless accusations is part of crafting a good message.

    I understand that the point of this diary is something else altogether, a call for unity and a decrease in the rancor and namecalling.

    But for the love of God, would people please stop referring to supporters of the Democratic ticket as: koolaid drinkers, lockstep followers, or any theme which fits into GOP accusations that Obama's supporters are cultish or irrational.  Not helpful.

    "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

    by GN1927 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:35:43 AM PDT

    •  Uh, did you read this part? (12+ / 0-)

      Here's the deal.  I'm not about to call anybody here a Kool Aid Drinker, any more than I am going to call out somebody as a Chicken Little.  The fact remains, like every campaign, Obama is doing some great stuff, and Obama is lagging behind in some stuff too.

      The point of the diary is that we shouldn't use EITHER term.

      It's not about Palin. It's about McCain. Don't let them hide the ball.

      by wmtriallawyer on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:37:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Why have it in there at all? n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        geejay

        "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

        by GN1927 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:40:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Same question can be asked... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shunpike, angel d, Black Leather Rain

          about Chicken Little.

          Why use that term at all?

          It's not about Palin. It's about McCain. Don't let them hide the ball.

          by wmtriallawyer on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:42:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Chicken Little (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            geejay

            which, I agree, should be not tossed about carelessly, doesn't reinforce the meme that Obama supporters are in a cult in the manner which koolaid drinking and lockstep does.  

            "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

            by GN1927 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:48:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But it reinforces the meme (4+ / 0-)

              That everyone who raises a concern of any kind, even without gaining a fair hearing for its merits is a foolish barnyard animal that is driven by irrational fears.  Calling folks chicken littles isn't all that innocent at the end of the day.

              •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                geejay, stunzeed

                I'm not arguing that the namecalling is great.

                I'm saying that for those who are most concerned about Obama crafting and disseminating a good message, at the very least do not spread GOP memes while doing so!  For the love of God, why would anyone on the left not run far away from peddling any of the following:
                Obama's weak and timid
                Obama's supporters march in lockstep
                Obama's supporters are irrational/brainwashed

                This goes beyond namecalling and into not using GOP memes and frames to analyze our own candidate and his supporters.  The tit-for-tat with koolaid versus chicken little is why I objected to this diary in the first place.  Because it fails to recognize that trafficking in cult language is a net loser for us, period, above and beyond the undesirability of namecalling.

                "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

                by GN1927 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:07:28 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  But it's not about concern of ANY kind. TV ADS (0+ / 0-)

                are the focus of this concern. To obsess over ads on teevee fits my definition of "chicken little."

                As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

                by ticket punch on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:08:04 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  I am waiting for the void to be filled (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cat Nerd

    in the Ad war...I want our 527's to step up and hold nothing back.

    Get them, and get them hard.  Every little peice of crap the McCain Camp has tossed out...they need to be flogged with it.

    "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex."

    by Mxwll on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:36:06 AM PDT

  •  Let's drink water not Kool-aid but... (6+ / 0-)

    No drama.  No hand wringing.  Constructive criticsm welcome.

    I'm in favor of losing the "we're blowing it, the sky is falling" in favor of "I think I see a hole here, if you see the same thing, let's plug it."

    "Those dunes are to the Midwest what the Grand Canyon is to Arizona and the Yosemite is to California." - Carl Sandburg

    by Critical Dune on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:36:29 AM PDT

    •  Too True--Avoid Censorship (0+ / 0-)

      Face it--this is the PC generation and the tendency toward hand wringing is juvenile.

      Gird your loins with a little review of past campaigns--Jefferson versus Adams.  Don't be afraid to get a bit of dirt under your fingernails!

  •  George Lakoff (5+ / 0-)

    Posted his HuffPo article here personally last night (didn't quite get up the rec list). This was the mother of all hand-wringings, but he's got the cred to pull it off.

  •  The question is (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GN1927, lauramp, brklyngrl, stunzeed

    What does it accomplish?

    If you really think that top Obama strategists are reading these diaries for advice on their strategy, then perhaps you are just naive and need to wake up.

    But if you realize that it's just a vent or rant, you need to understand that the combined weight of these diaries does have an effect on supporter morale.

    If nothing good is being accomplished for the greater cause of electing Obama, why risk the harm of undermining morale?

    I don't believe in coming in second.

    by converse on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:38:17 AM PDT

    •  The truth is the truth (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shunpike, browneyes, stunzeed

      I live my life like this:  I'm going to call it like I see it.  If somebody thinks I'm full of shit, we can talk about it, and if I'm wrong I'll admit it.  In dysfunctional situations, groupthink is the norm, and off in the corner somebody is waving the red flag and everybody either ignores him or piles on.  That's how disasters happen.

      But in calling it like I see it, I feel obligated to back my opinion up with facts.  There have been a lot of fact free diaries here criticizing Obama's campaign that have rightly gotten people pissed off.

      It's not so much a problem with users as it is a problem in the DK system.  DailyKos 3.0 should address the problem of newbie members who want to use our free soapbox without doing their homework--maybe you need to be here for a week before you can post a diary, or a minimum number of outbound links in the post, or a minimum word counter before the post button will work.

    •  OB strategists not pay att'n to specific diariies (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink

      but they are paying attention to what dems are saying. And they are punching harder. The extent to which this change is because of the newspaper columns, Kos diaries, and TV commentary in the past week or to which it was a planned barrage we may not ever know.  But, we can bet that the Obama campaign is paying attention to what the dems are saying as well as to their internal polling and internal discussion.

  •  This is the democratic party (0+ / 0-)

    ......not the Nazi party. Who knows when something posted here, even critical, might actually be read by and used successfully by the Obama campaign.

  •  Re: diarist on wreck list (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    paintitblue, negev79

    I know of whom you speak.  Frankly, he's an obnoxious, hateful human being.  Even when I agree with him in general.

    I just wish we could discuss issues frustrating us without the running and screaming and the pulling out of hair.  That is not helpful.

    Anyway, good diary.

    A hard on doesn't count as personal growth...

    by browneyes on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:38:52 AM PDT

    •  Indeed. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      paintitblue, browneyes

      If people would just calm down, couldn't we have a respectful discussion even when we don't agree? Why must all differing opinions, kool aid or concern, be met with "you're an idiot, syfph!" That's not a debate. It's a kindergarten fight over who's turn it is on the swingset.

      I'm registering voters this weekend. What are you going to do? Do something!

      by negev79 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:06:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Close enough to steal (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SecondComing, jay23, browneyes

    The potential for a stolen election through machine rigging and other means is incredibly real; but, as has been noted, the election must be close for that to be possible.  To be honest, wearing my best tinfoil hat, I've considered the possibility that the TM's interest in reporting and keeping the race close may go beyond the simple ratings and revenue motivation.

    If the TM reports it as a close race, regardless of the facts (and we've seen how unimportant facts have been lately), they have set the stage for a believable theft.  We've seen the TM outlets carrying water for the GOP for years; why would they stop now?  It's more than a bit troubling to me.

    Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor. - MH @ mudflats

    by rb608 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:39:06 AM PDT

  •  By the way, we ARE the audience (4+ / 0-)

    Does anyone know why ad agencies do focus groups? Why people don't just rely on developers, engineers, wonks, and experts to develop their products and messaging?

    Because they're not the audience for your campaign. WE are the audience. WE are the ordinary people, and that's exactly why our opinion matters. AND THAT's WHY OBAMA SHOULD CARE WHY WE THINK HIS ADS ARE LAME AND INSIPID.

    If it's not playing well with us, how effective do you think these ads will be across America? Please. David Plouffe needs to get out of his state of denial.

    John McCain is banking on a dominating ad and press strategy, and I think this will be the strategy that works. Think about it. By losing every news cycle, the Obama campaign is sending out the message that it is weak, that it will lose. This is already decreasing morale here in the DK community -- think about how it will decrease morale for all other Obama supporters. Do you think 50 days ahead of the election, these same supporters are going to want to go out there for the final push to win this campaign? NO.

    Morale matters. Good ads matter. People need to wake up.

  •  Ok, here's something he just said (10+ / 0-)

    and this is GOOD.

    http://www.politico.com/...

    "When American workers hear John McCain talking about putting country first, it’s fair to ask – which country?" Obama asked a gathering of the International Association of Machinists, whom he addressed via satellite, according to the pool report.

    He was talking about McCain's opposition to a requirement that the U.S. government by only American made motorcycles.

  •  Let's have an "Idea Lab" diary. n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    browneyes, stunzeed
  •  I have a question? (5+ / 0-)

    Do the folks questioning Obama's ads want him to run ads like McCains?

    If so he would lose my vote and I suspect a lot of other independents also...

    What we do for ourselves dies with us, what we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. (Albert Pine)

    by laughingriver on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:41:01 AM PDT

    •  No. Not all negative ads are bad (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KibbutzAmiad

      For example, an ad calling McCain out on all his lies. An ad about the rape kit issue -- and this is a valid issue -- would be both informative and hard hitting.

      An ad about how Mccain has conceded our lead in the tech race would be valid. ANYTHING. Just no more lame ads, no more defensive press releases. I'm tired of reading how Obama is reacting to this or responding to that when he needs to be attacking McCain from the gut.

      •  I question if that would be money well spent... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bahrad

        when the press has done basically that for him. I wonder if folks here are really looking for ads that make them feel good as opposed to dconsidering whether or not the cost of doing them is warranted and to what affect they would really have...

        Everyone seems to be focused on the ads, but can anyone here really say that they really have that much of an affect in the long run?

        What we do for ourselves dies with us, what we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. (Albert Pine)

        by laughingriver on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:53:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Millions of people watch TV (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slinkerwink

          With a TV ad, you have a captive audience of tens of millions of people. You have several days of coverage. You have the press discussing your ad.

          When you debunk the same ad with a press release or an op-ed your audience is only a fraction of the audience who saw the ad.

          The press can only do so much.

          •  Captive? They have these things called remotes. (0+ / 0-)

            As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

            by ticket punch on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:09:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No doubt... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ticket punch

              and as the polls are conducted by a small sample of voters less than 1000 usually then really to what affect can we say ads actually drive their decision making process. I look at McCains ads on the web and have yet to see any of them here in Georgia while watching TV. They disgust me, so I would wonder why anyone would think that the affect of McCains ads would be more positive on a voters views than negative?

              By an large McCain is getting negative views from bot hthe press and voters about the negativity of his TV ads, so I don't think they are having much of an affect at all on reality. The reality is that this is a close campaign as has been the case since 1992 and the polls reflect the rather evenly divided electorate we have in this country...

              What we do for ourselves dies with us, what we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. (Albert Pine)

              by laughingriver on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:31:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  And it is only very recently (0+ / 0-)

            that the press started doing its job of fact-checking.  Even then there are certain outlets that won't touch truth with a pole of any length.

      •  An ad about lies would be a response ad (0+ / 0-)

        And not as effective as a true attack ad. It's important, yes, but it's equally important to attack.

        The real ad you should be talking about is "Still" - the first ad in this cycle that directly attacks McCain on his age.

    •  They don't know what they want (7+ / 0-)

      quite frankly.  There's a nonending stream of strategy suggestions, most of it asking for more hardhitting language and ads.  

      And there's a cohort who believe any requests to balance the constant negativity and handwringing with the need to close ranks about Obama is censoring, dismissing them, walking in lockstep, etc.  This is pure self-importance.

      "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

      by GN1927 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:45:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and then when Obama does run an ad like "Still" (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GN1927, lauramp, geejay, Muzikal203

        they sit back and criticize it because apparently they miss the point. Obama just attacked McCain on his AGE. And if he can get away with it, he's just going to get more aggressive.

      •  I will come out and say it to you even though (0+ / 0-)

        it applies to others as well.  This type of dismissive post (which I might suggest displays a heavy sense of self-importance) is driving me right out of this community.  I can hear it now:  well good riddance you snotty nosed self-important chicken little.  We will win this campaign without your whining on some website.  In response I would point you to my diary history where you will find a rather meager record of accomplishment, typically pointing out news tidbits and offering thoughts about why they might be important enough to share with the group.  Prior to this week I have found this community incredibly welcoming and helpful in sharing important information and providing a network of others who share similar political values.  Yet something changed this week and there are an exponentially greater number of posts like yours that snear at the ideas of others and is so arrogantly dismissive of the contributions of members of this group.  I know that i have not been guilty of the worst of the Chicken Little sky is falling nonsense that has happened here and I think it could correctly be argued that I should simply recognize that you aren't talking about me, but your net is catching more critters than you think and your attitude reaks of something I don't want to be a part of.  Take it for what it's worth, not much.  I know I'm not important to you or this site.  

        •  You're not being smeared (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          geejay

          and I have called you no name nor do I intend to do so now.  I'm unfamiliar with your work but I'm sure it's quite good.  Take that for what it's worth and have a nice day.

          "If you don't have a record to run on...You make a big election about small things." - Barack Obama

          by GN1927 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:31:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Oh and let me respond to my own comment... (0+ / 0-)

      By saying this. McCain has declared war on the media, there is another diary up right now about how he got destroyed on the view. He has been hiding from the press for 4 weeks and Sarah Palin is hiding also.

      What should Obama do, well if I was him I would become the most media friendly candidate on the face of the earth, I would go on every single show  I could possibly go on. McCain is running from them and declaring war on them and they are calling him out on lie after lie, he has not talked about any issues and he knows he cannot face them at all.

      Obama, meanwhile is going totally media friendly,  has no lies to defend, talks about issues and has a great presence when he is on a stage and would have no worries about getting his ass raked across the coals by the media challenging him because he has kept it clean.

      If he just does this one thing he will OWN McCain and I mean OWN him, and based on his appearences this past week it is just what Obama is doing, going totally media friendly...

      What we do for ourselves dies with us, what we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. (Albert Pine)

      by laughingriver on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:19:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No drama, just work... (4+ / 0-)

    imho - great diary.

    "The revolution's just an ethical haircut away..." Billy Bragg

    by grannyhelen on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:41:38 AM PDT

  •  I have a simple solution (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wmtriallawyer, kat68, browneyes

    for those who want to take the focus off of repetitive diaries bashing Obama's latest ads (which honestly aren't very good).  Post diaries about McCain!

    There's 6.1% unemployment, real wages are stagnant, McCain has no economic plan whatsoever, he surrounds himself with the same people he criticized in 2000, and he picked a corrupt running mate who wants to go to war with Russia.  Shouldn't be too hard to find material.

  •  I think Al was actually making a more nuanced (6+ / 0-)

    point. Which is that complaining about the ad war is useless because we don't have control over it. Complaining about how the Obama campaign needs to change the narrative is useless, because we don't have control over it. We should focus on the things we can control, like voter registration and phone banking.

    On a related note, if people want to push a narrative, push a narrative - don't get all meta about how someone else should push a narrative. Try it out and see if you can convince people. That's a personal pet peeve of mine.

    No way, no how, no McCain

    by brklyngrl on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:46:06 AM PDT

  •  I can see Connecticut (0+ / 0-)

    from the North Shore of Long Island, if I take the time to drive an hour from where I live to get there.

    On that basis, I plan on teaching a course on the history of Connecticut at Columbia University next summer. I'm just waiting for them to accept my proposal, which should be any day once they realize my credentials are unimpeachable.

  •  We need to press the Obama campaign... (0+ / 0-)

    ...but at the same time without discouraging other activists.  I also believe in contributing to the 527s.

    I'm not going to be complacent that the Obama campaign doesn't need to hear from us.  They do.  But they need to hear concrete solutions.  

    The Obama/Biden Inaugural -- the exact moment when the world goes from gray to colorful.

    by alkatt on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:47:15 AM PDT

  •  Wm, all your diary did was restart the cycle (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clues, GN1927, lauramp, kat68, stunzeed

    of ACKKKKKKKKKKK  we are losing becasue OBAMA didnt do exactly what I THINK he must do in order to win... and I side with those that say it is unproductive and extremely tiring to wade through 20-30 of these diaries to find ONE GEM in the pile of 'woe is us' missives.

    PLUS, for those that try to surf NON progressive websites and blog areas, you know that these 'woe is us...we are doomed' diaries from DK are showing up on those blogs and being used as 'proof postive' the dems are dangerously divided, afraid of ms wasilla, backing away from supporting obama etc etc etc.

    would that people put this much energy in pushing the points we NEED to push as they push the 'we're doomed cause we're democrats and we dont know how to fight dirty" diaries....

    so I am going to ask people who post here to do something for OBAMA....  THINK BEFORE YOU POST DIARIES on places like dailykos because this website is no longer a small little area on the great big web where we can quietly discuss our 'concerns' and offer our suggestions.... whether good or bad Daily Kos is a Media magnet and a republican target... and every time you post a WE ARE DOOMED diary you help push the republican meme for them  :)

    THINK before you post a diary....   please!  :)

    When will McCain address REAL ISSUES, "WHEN PIGS FLY"

    by KnotIookin on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:47:32 AM PDT

    •  Don't be ridiculous (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ErinW43, stunzeed

      Obama himself says the campaign is "about you," meaning his supporters. That is an invitation to joint the conversation. When millions of people attempt to hold a conversation it sounds like cacaphony. Yes, we have to be patient to pick the wheat from the chaff, but there's just no other way to go about it. Asking people to shut up, however politely, is simply not going to be effective. It just won't happen. The genie is out of the bottle, that's how the candidate wants it, and I happen to agree with him.

    •  I agree with you (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KnotIookin, lauramp, stunzeed

      especially on this:

      and I side with those that say it is unproductive and extremely tiring to wade through 20-30 of these diaries to find ONE GEM in the pile of 'woe is us' missives.

      I'm getting pretty fed up with seeing the diary list crammed with  "This is what Obama MUST DO!!!!!!" titles.

      Slinkerwink got after me the other day for asking one of these diarists what his credentials were, and he's right, there are a few people on the site with some cred in this area.  However, there are many more diaries about this than people who have any real experience in it, and NONE of the diarists here (I think) has access to internal polling and focus group info.

      mrblifil , below, doesn't agree, and says

      Obama himself says the campaign is "about you," meaning his supporters. That is an invitation to joint the conversation. When millions of people attempt to hold a conversation it sounds like cacaphony.

      I think this just makes your point.  For one thing, if Obama wants to have a conversation with us, this isn't where he wants to have it.  He has his own web site.  If you want to tell him urgently that you can run his campaign better, go over there and tell him.

      Millions of people creating cacophony in the middle of a hard fought campain are not useful.  In fact, the poster's misspelling says it all caca phony.

  •  Thomas Jefferson (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, SecondComing

    paid a journalist to lie about Adams in the most scurrilous way. Yet Jefferson has been held up as an example of high-mindedness. Think about that.

    McCain/Palin: The Real Bridge to Nowhere

    by Anne Elk on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:48:02 AM PDT

  •  P.S. Where is Biden? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink

    Are they keeping him in sure blue states?  Are the media just not covering him because they have a beauty queen to cover?  She is definitely prettier than Biden.

    But I am getting very worried and if Obama's campaign is not listening because they 'won' against the clintonits so they know everything, they we will lose.  Hopefully the Obama's people will isten.

    Good diary.  I talked to my daughter (mid-thirties - 4 kids - outer suburban mom) and she doesn't give any credence to the 'Rove v. Wade' argument that McCain will over turn it.  She says Bush wanted to and didn't and McCain won't either.

    That spells trouble in my beginner politcal playbook.

  •  Unless we are top-level (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, stunzeed

    people that are paid by the campaign to direct campaign strategy, I'm not sure the campaign gives a fuck about our campaign advice.  That is one difference, with all due respect.  You were paid to work for the campaign so, presumably, you were a valuable asset in directing strategy.  I guess I am a koolaid drinker because, frankly, I don't see the value in dissecting the campaign here.  The value is in doing everything in our power to get Obama elected.  

  •  Oh Lordy, the endless cycle of DKos (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrutinizer, wmtriallawyer

    masturbatory thesis-antithesis-synthesis process diaries.

    Not directed at you, wm, BTW. You provide a good synthesis.  It's just a shame that someone has to be writing this diary today at all, that's all.

  •  Thank you! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    angel d

    It's about someone spoke about. And you did it in a magnificient way.

  •  Ad Bashers are feedig into Repub meme' Democrats (3+ / 0-)

    are divided.

    If we dump enough on Obama, we will defeat ourselves in these last few weeks.

  •  STFU Chicken Drinker! (5+ / 0-)

    Or, Kool Aid Little!

    I'm trying to start my own catch phrase.

    How am I doing?

    (Good diary, BTW.  Tipped and Rec'ed)

  •  I'd rather be confident than be a bedwetter (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrutinizer, lauramp, filby, stunzeed

    The fact of the matter is that Democrats, here and everywhere else, have a serious problem keeping the faith with Obama. It's not just on DKos. The NYTimes op-ed page is a rotating tag team of 'OMG, Obama is slipping' handwringing. Bob Herbert usually leads the charge, but this week we were treated to Tom Friedman worrying that Obama was slipping because he's not connecting with people in their guts. And then went on to say that Obama's convention speech was a dud that failed to move him out of his chair.

    What???

    This is why the bedwetting is annoying and counterproductive -- it is wrong almost 99% of the time. The polls tick down and everyone turns into Bob Shrum, flooding the media with bad advice about what Obama needs to do to keep from losing. In this election, Democrats have huge advantages over Republicans, Obama is running a groundbreaking 50 state campaign, and John McCain proves, every time he opens his mouth, that he doesn't offer a compelling alternative. Remember, no Republicans with any juice ran this time, because they knew they were at such a disadvantage. So all we got from them in the primary field was misfits and stragglers. McCain won by virtue of being the least bad, but that's no complement. His campaign is the Hindenberg.

    So keep your eyes on the big picture -- the fundamental strength of Obama has never gone away. Too many people are needlessly distracted by the ebbs and flows of the day to day.

    Why hasn't Obama earned the faith of more people at this point? That's the better question.

  •  I am totally at sea (7+ / 0-)

    What is happening right here, right now in my county, is so different from what so many here are talking about that I feel like I am in some different land.

    I live in the east suburbs of Pittsburgh.  I see  see lots and lots of ads.  Anti-McCain ads (I would call them hard hitting, but apparently not to most around here), inspirational of Obama. I have seen an econmic ad against McCain, a education against McCain (the meanest from Obama  yet) and an inspirational from Obama within 10 minutes.

    McCain's ads are all the same.  His are full of those "we are doooommmmed" voices and they either flat out lie or are just plain mean towards Obama.  They are the type of  ad you flip through the channel on.  

    All of Obama ads have light and fun music, are short and entertaining so that people usually watch.  Out in public I watch people watching ads, and there is mostly an extemely positive reaction.

    I don't listen to the radio, just live stream Air America, so I don't know what's on the radio.

    There are TV ads on all the time, but we get and make calls, from a local list.  My husband loves calling and is good so he works on local lists, but sometimes for fun, or if his daily list is finished he calls from the website and calls other states.

    In addition we get very specific targeted calls (Jewish calls for the last name, and me as a woman).

    We also have set up specificly targeted canvessing in the city. They are using the unique steps of Pittsburgh to kick it off and we should be hitting about 40,000 homes with 1400 volunteers.  It should also get publicity because of the scene set for the start.

    The east suburban office, where I live opened with around 200 people showing up (huge turnout not expected) There are 7 Obama offices just in this county.

    Each volunteer that has signed up is asked to registar 1-3 people a week.  We are given ideas and lessons on how to approach everyone and anyone (your waitress, hairstylist, etc.) and just ask.  

    There are surrogates speaking all the time.  Weekly if not daily.  Barbara Boxer is even here today.  

    Will this work?  Who knows, but I do know that this is a different way to get votes.  We have always had a gazillion ads, and for the past 5  years or so we get a gazillion robocalls.  But not this year.  We have TV ads from both, no robocalls from Obama, one from McCain, but the rest is new. (4 years ago we did get some Kerry calls and also made some, but it was through Move-on and the calls were not made or taken to engage.  This time they are)

    day before yesterday my husband talked to one older woman who was horrified Obama called Palin a pig.  A hard hitting commercal would not have helped her, but a real live person did.  

    The point I think I am trying to make, is this year, as there are many ways to the electorial college, there are many ways to get voters.  I don't know if it will work, and I will be riding on cloud nine in Nov, or if I will be gnashing my teeth, going into a depression that will need drugs.

    If Obama were running another campaign, one of "hard hitting" or whatever it is that is called for, would he be further ahead or further behind?  No matter what we think there is no way of knowing since this year is different. We are playing our game by our rules.  How many years since we did that?  How many years since a republican had to become our message instead of us becomeing theirs?  

    So with all this "chicken little" and "SYFPH" the only thing I am sure of is that if everyone puts in the type of work and energy that I see here, there is no way we will lose.  

    •  Great post. Keep up the good work and (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stunzeed

      the positive attitude.

      I don't mind people speaking their minds, but I'm getting tired of a lot of the unproductive hysteria which helps nothing and can hurt.

      Until the economy recovers, I'll settle for cheap laughs

      by Clyde the Cat on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:25:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Failure to respond is a chronic dem problem (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink
  •  I want O to win but his voice needs (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, wmtriallawyer, boofdah, deep

    some passion. I think he is doing a great job of keeping cool, but last night he was on the edge of "droning". His words were exciting but his pitch and tone were not what they could have been.

    I think his response to fear is a wonderful quality...he seems to get calmer and more focused. However, Mcsame is all about "passion", "feelings" and "drama". That's all he got.

    We need a little more passion in O's voice and he needs to hit a bit below the belt at an emotional level.

    Mcsame, rage, cheney rage, bush rage...underneath "Temperament matters". Mushroom cloud.

    It needs to be done...

    The greatest gift you can contribute to the goal of world peace is to heal.

    by wavpeac on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:58:04 AM PDT

    •  Y'know, I tend to agree with this (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, boofdah

      When I read the comments he made about the stupid "lipstick on a pig" thing, I was like, "Go Obama! Get 'em!"

      But when I actually SAW the clip, and how flat the delivery was? I was disappointed.

      He should have said that more forcefully in my opinion.  No more bullshit.  No more lies. Let's move on.

      It's not about Palin. It's about McCain. Don't let them hide the ball.

      by wmtriallawyer on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:01:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Three Words: (0+ / 0-)

      ANGRY BLACK MAN

      I'm sure seeing Barack being more forceful and emotive would make you feel good. Hell, I know I would cheer uproariously if, during the debates, Obama responded to one of McCain's lies with a totally awesome kung fu kick to the face.

      But how well is any of that going to play to the people who need the most convincing? People who are already suspicious of Obama because he's a Democrat/Liberal/Communist/Politician/Tax-and-Spender/Islamofascist/Robot-From-The-Future-Sent-Back- In-Time-To-Kill-John-Connor?

      May your anger be righteous.

      by bottlerocketheart on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 10:56:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There is a large body of research on elections (5+ / 0-)

    and what motivates people to vote for or against a candidate, in the fields of social and cognitive psychology.  One does not have to be a Certified Expert in Election Campaigning to point out flaws in in Obama's campaign, based on this research.  So enough please with the "you're just a blogger, let the experts handle it."

    Thanks very much for this diary.

  •  I'm working the streets to elect Obama (6+ / 0-)

    The bickering and whining DRAINS energy and enthusiasm of casual supporters. That is my big concern. Don't drive them away with the constant carping!

    -7.38, -5.23 "Though the storm may be raging, and the billows tossing high, Lord I feel like going on."

    by CocoaLove on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:01:47 AM PDT

  •  I appreciate your diary (0+ / 0-)
  •  You could have said it in once sentence: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wmtriallawyer, stunzeed

    Extremism is bad.

    (or:  Fundamentalism is bad.)

    Very accurate, for the handwringers AND for the users who think it's appropriate to ignore the FAQ's of the site, and start Hide Rating comments with which they don't agree, because they are handwringing.

    "2009" The end of an error

    by sheddhead on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:04:31 AM PDT

  •  chicken littles proclaim doom over everything (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lauramp, stunzeed

    a point or two shift and they are saying the sky is falling.
    This has an infection reaction. Especially with the press that lurks on here to get stories.  They forward this mood on in endless stories about democrats are upset and Obama is in trouble, blah blah.
    It accomplishes nothing but, hurting the candidate because the chicken littles think any little movement is sure to doom the election.

    •  Doom for the US, not the party. (0+ / 0-)

      The Party will be here forever. The US, if McCain Palin take power? Another matter.

      To Whom Much is given, Much is expected.

      by lizhoyt on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:07:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's Not Chicken Little to Say Tide is Turning (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, Geekesque, two roads

      and not in our favor.

      Plus, it's better to be concerned about what's going on in public opinion than to keep eyes wide shut and pretend everything is fine and dandy.

      •  Actually, unless you propose something to change (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        scrutinizer

        that dynamic, or do something about it, it is.

        Until the economy recovers, I'll settle for cheap laughs

        by Clyde the Cat on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:29:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But offering suggestions = "chicken little"... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slinkerwink, Geekesque, angel d

          As the previous diarists said.  They sought not to engage in dialogue, they wanted to silence dissent.

          I'm concerned that Obama is no longer framing the debate as he once was.  I've donated twice in the last two weeks.  Those things can go hand-in-hand.  

          You can't run a campaign where you solicit millions of small money donors and then refuse to listen to any of their points.  Notice that the Obama campaign isn't releasing an EVERYBODY CHILL OUT, it's their surrogates, like the previous diarists, who can't handle any non-positive comments.

          Kudos you, sir/miss, on a well written diary.

          Freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate.

          by Sean O on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:57:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  When the "suggestion" is "He/they/you NEED to" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Clyde the Cat

            then it's not really a suggestion, is it? That's about control, not constructiveness.

            As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

            by ticket punch on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:10:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I don't disagree with you. For the most part. (0+ / 0-)

            I don't mind if someone suggests that Obama does an attack ad, and then describes the nature, execution, etc. of such an ad.

            But saying "If Obama doesn't do attack ads immediately, he will lose", and leaving it at that is simply unproductive.

            I guess I'm simply saying, "Don't just criticize, constructively criticize."

            Until the economy recovers, I'll settle for cheap laughs

            by Clyde the Cat on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:10:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Agreed, but (0+ / 0-)

              Those comments are just stupid throwaways.  Do we need a week long namecalling fest dedicated to stupid comments?

              I don't find the "everyone relax" anti-sentiment, which often also fails to provide adequate representation, very helpful either.

              So, the lesson is: everyone stop posting dumb crap without justification.

              Freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate.

              by Sean O on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 10:20:23 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  One Rape Kit Ad (7+ / 0-)

    That's all I ask.

    It would be far from "McCain tactics" because it would actually be true.

    "John McCain cynically thinks he can win the women's vote by adding Sarah Palin to his ticket.  The same Sarah Palin who, as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, forced rape victims to pay for evidence kits.  The same Sarah Palin who believes abortion should be illegal even in cases of rape and incest.  Is this the kind of change John McCain wants for the women of America?"

    •  This is SO important. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      two roads

      It seems like people equate being "tough" with being a smear-mongering Republican and the "high road" with not criticizing your opponent.  Telling the truth is far, far tougher than those flimsy tales that the rethugs tell.  I, too, wish to see this ad.  I want them to be slammed with it.  Destroyed with it.  With the truth.

      The readiness is all

      by mrchumchum on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:14:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've never been paid by a campaign. . . (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lenlarga, mrchumchum

    Nevertheless, I've studied Psychology, Sociology, Military Strategy/Philosophy, History, Political Science, Business, and Economics.

    To me, it's important to remain courteous to those with whom we disagree (it doesn't mean we don't disagree). I try to attack arguments, rather than the people making those arguments.

    I've worked closely with Democrats and Republicans and have no fundamental distaste for anyone based on political ideology.

    I've said here that I would like to see Obama's campaign learning how to fight better because I think Democrats have been flat-footed since the Republican Convention (and specifically since the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate). Let's face it: The arguments I am inclined to make that would make Palin's ascent to the Oval Office objectionable didn't work against GW in 2000, and McCain basically inherited GW's campaign team.

    We should look at how we lost in 2000 for clues to how we can win in 2008:

    1. Focus on maximizing voter turnout.
    1. Fight back against attacks. Contradict them where possible and follow Krugman's example to call out the lies, especially where they are repeated.
    1. Volunteer/work for your candidate. That's Obama now, and no further challenges to his leadership should be entertained by those who count themselves on our side.
    1. Obama's campaign should invite President Clinton to make speeches and appearances; not Senator Clinton. Remember President Clinton's appearance on Fox News? That's what we need from and for Senator Obama, right now.
    1. Go after McCain or after Palin's arguments and not after Palin's qualifications.

    Underlying all this is the baseline desperation that we know Republicans feel, right now. They can wave off White House approval ratings by pointing to Congressional approval ratings all day, but despite American fondness for divided government, we dislike gridlock.

    Just my two cents.

    The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

    by Pacifist on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:06:30 AM PDT

  •  More explorations (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrutinizer, GN1927

    ever deeper into the collective dk bellybutton.

    Yay?  Recommended?  

    Fear is the mind killer

    by Sun dog on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:08:38 AM PDT

  •  Agreement on Candidate, Disagreement on Tactics.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wmtriallawyer

    ...happens inside political campaigns themselves; so, IMHO, it's not surprising that there would be disagreement on tactics outside the campaign, on a progressive political blog, especially when poll numbers show a close race.  

    Also, IMHO, honest dialogue and brainstorming alternatives are what lead to progress and success in other areas of life.  The hard part is finding a balance between being overwhelmed and paralyzed with fear and being blindsided by being over-confident.

    BTW, it seems to me that the republicans disrespect, ridicule and slap us around quite enough already & it would be great if we didn't slap each other around so quickly and with so little provocation. But, that's just my opinion.

  •  I don't accept this false dichotomy, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    abrauer

    and a lawyer knows better than to put it out there.

    As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

    by ticket punch on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:10:28 AM PDT

  •  the problem with armchair strategists (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, lauramp, mrchumchum, stunzeed, abrauer

    is they are monday morning quarterbacks.
    they offer nothing and only are spouting to a limited audience.
    Even Trippi, who is a good strategist but, has not run a successful campaign.  Or columnists who only have their hotair to fill.
    But. it accomplishes nothing except to drag people down and that is bad.  
    People need to pump it.  Make fun of the enemy rather then cry about how all is doomed.
    That is what is wrong.  it deflates the positive energy started by chicken littles.

    •  Dude, It's Slipping Away (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink

      After a year of thinking this election was ours to lose, it now looks like McCain's to lose.

      Don't blame us for not being pumped up.

      •  why did you think you had it in the bag (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GN1927, mrchumchum, stunzeed, abrauer

        Do you remember polls all through 2006 and the first part of 2007 showing that McCain would crush any Democratic opponent? And once McCain secured the nomination, polls that showed he was always within striking distance of Obama (and often ahead of Clinton)?

        McCain has always been the one Republican candidate who could keep this close - all he had to do was bring in the evangelicals... I thought earlier that he'd do it by bringing in Huckabee, but he decided to bring Palin in instead and create a bunch of additional volatility.

  •  Maybe a steel cage match, or something (0+ / 0-)

    to the death...

    2 Albatrosses enter, 1 Albatross leaves.

    Then the rest of us gank the winner, and we can all move on and win an election.

    "As God is my witness, I thought wingnuts could fly".

    by Niniane on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:17:09 AM PDT

  •  Maybe it's because I got to watch (5+ / 0-)

    Obama's Senate primary and GE, that I'm not worried.

    Perhaps a lot of you don't really grasp what he was up against here.

    In the primary, a field of 7 contenders, not without big-name, powerfully connected candidates.  Outing Blair Hull's divorce documents in the final weeks before the election unleashed a Tsunami of support for Barack.  Was that just, uhm, luck?  I doubt it.

    He won the primary with 52+ percent of the vote.  Out of a field of 7 contenders.

    Illinois is a cross section of America.  The southern part is a lot closer to the 'south', than the north. So a lot of what Barack knows about campaigning, he learned there, with Dick Durbin's excellent help.

    By this time, the TM had figured out that divorce documents might be interesting, and the Ryan divorce decree was outed with the sexual stuff.  Another one bites the dust.  In disarray, the GOP gave Barack Alan Keyes.  (Is this all starting to sound a little familiar by this time?)

    In David Mendell's book on Barack (he was the Chicago Tribune reporter who followed Barack around during his senate race) he points out that the strategy deployed in both cases, was to pull out all the stops in the final (in that case 3) weeks before the election, when people are PAYING ATTENTION.  He won 70% of the vote, winning all but about 3 (maybe 5?) counties in the state.

    Remember, when he was selected to speak at the 2004 convention it wasn't on the basis of his senate win.  It was on the basis of his truly precedent-breaking primary win.  

    Unlike the diarist, I don't think the Obama campaign ever had any kind of mis-perception like this:

    That eroded when Blankenbaker aired her first ad...a negative piece on Carson's crime record in the State Senate.

    For awhile, we scrambled.

    I think Obama knew exactly what he'd be up against from the GOP, including the voter suppression tactics, the slime tactics, the lying tactics, etc. Including having a different yard stick being used to judge him than would be used against any white candidate.  Were they taken aback by the Palin selection?  Yeah, probably, a little bit but I'm guessing it was with glee.  They've BTDT.

    Fortunately for us,  FORTUNATELY, The GOP gave us the white female version of Alan Keyes as the Vice Presidential candidate.  It was the sucker punch Barack didn't have to throw.

    Sarah Palin: The personification of American Ignorance and Hubris. Talk to your friends about Counsel for Change (see homepage)

    by pvlb on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:17:23 AM PDT

    •  Wait a sec... (0+ / 0-)

      the Senate primary comparison is certainly valid.

      But the general election against Keyes? C'mon.

      Keyes was 20 points behind the whole time.  There was NO contest.

      I remember Obama giving away money and traveling out of state to raise money for candidates before he was even elected to the Senate.

      McCain does NOT equal Keyes.

      That just doesn't reflect reality.

      It's not about Palin. It's about McCain. Don't let them hide the ball.

      by wmtriallawyer on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:28:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe you should read Ruffini's blog (0+ / 0-)

    http://www.thenextright.com/...

    the last two entries. If you read them, then you can understand Obama's ads this morning, and their strategy going forward in context.

    1. Attack McCain's age. Despite Ruffini saying they can't do it, they're clearly going to try. That's the whole point of "Still".
    1. Put "maverick" into context, which was the point of the "Whoa" ad earlier in the week, and which is the theme Obama has been pursuing.

    What a lot of people are advocating here is counter-attacks, responding.

    The one thing I do agree with is the potential to attack on the rape kit issue, provided they combine that with McCain's own opposition (apparently there was a vote he was either absent for or opposed). If they can do that, fine. (If it's just an attack on Palin, then it's weak.)

  •  Very good diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, wmtriallawyer

    Thank you for this.  

  •  name one good thing accomplished by endless (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scrutinizer, lauramp, stunzeed

    diaries about the sky falling and playing armchair strategist.
    What thing that comes from that.  One positive accomplished from the constant crying about gloom and doom and how all is lost 2 months before the election.  what I see it does is drag people down, dissipate the energy and harm the candidate.

  •  If nothing else, base motivation is an issue (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, misreal, stunzeed

    When Obama slinks around looking like he really believes that people will just see the difference between the candidates, it's dispiriting. When he puts even an ok ad, like "No Mavericks" (Lakoff's smart objections notwithstanding), I send money. But then Greenwald (DIGG), or today Planned Parenthood, puts together something easy -- easy because McCain-Palin really is such a pig -- I send them my money instead, because they're doing something really important.

    Josh Marshall's take on this (DIGG) from a couple of days ago really sticks with me: If we do nothing else this campaign, we need to make clear what a horrendous, dangerous, fraudulent, crime syndicate McCain-Palin represents. I've been waiting for Obama to lead on this, but I guess maybe he's decided he doesn't need to, or something, and other outfits are picking up the slack (see above). But it's a little late in the game for that, and in fact Obama did expressly say he wanted to take over the messaging.

    So yeah, he does bear some responsibility for the current state of anguish at our end. And Al Giordano, in his holier-than-thou way, has argued that that will just make us work harder, but at some level that's bunk. Does anything think, faced with McCain Palin, that we wouldn't just work harder if we thought we could really crush these people, with a win too big to steal, and big enough to govern with against all these other forces?

    What am I missing, here?

    That's Sarah Pygmalion, my friends.

    by itswhatson on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:20:52 AM PDT

    •  Correction: Link for Greenwald (0+ / 0-)

      is this.

      I'd linked to this, on Palin's Miss Alaska moment.

      Which is sort of the point: When you're lost in a gold mine, how can you not stumble out bearing at least some of the wealth?

      That's Sarah Pygmalion, my friends.

      by itswhatson on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:25:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

      Does anything think, faced with McCain Palin, that we wouldn't just work harder if we thought we could really crush these people, with a win too big to steal

      Seriously?  If people thought this was in the bag, why would they be motivated to work harder?

      This election is the most important in my life (I'm almost 50), and the events in the last two weeks has motivated me to contribute more, try to persuade more people, and to do more of whatever I can.

      Until the economy recovers, I'll settle for cheap laughs

      by Clyde the Cat on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:37:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  whoops..."have motivated". n/t (0+ / 0-)

        Until the economy recovers, I'll settle for cheap laughs

        by Clyde the Cat on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:37:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Here's the argument (0+ / 0-)

        You've got people involved in the campaign at varying levels of investment. You're in up to your eyeballs. I'd say I'm in up to the waist. There are people who will be in it to their ankles.

        Putting morality and frustration factor aside, I think this has got to be an accurate characterization, at some level. When there are lots of people involved, in any type of setting, you'll find them distributed over whatever variable we're talking about, which here is "investment". What's still a question is the numbers -- how many are at each level -- but I don't think we need to reach that.

        Now, suppose that the leader of the movement (let's stick with generic terminology for the moment) starts looking weak, broadly speaking. "Weak" could mean not defending him or herself, or not defending a set of principles the define the movement, whatever. "Weak" could also be a perception, more than an accurate description. I gather that the campaign is sending out emails every day to reporters, so maybe they're just not getting heard -- in which case they're weak because they're not able to break through the media embargo, and it becomes a competence issue. The guy's running for goddamned president; if he can't get his message out, then how does he plan to govern?

        So, say we have this perception of the movement leader being weak. What happens to the various people involved in the movement, as a function of their investment level? I think cognitive dissonance theory is relevant here. The most invested will invest more, to the extent they can, because they can't stand the thought of losing.

        The less invested are more likely to walk away. We actually had this conversation in our house last weekend: "Y'know what? If Obama loses, it's not our problem. We're white, we're straight, we've got decent and relatively secure incomes. We don't have kids. We'll likely be dead before the water runs out in our part of the world. If there is a meltdown, a lot of people will melt down before we do."

        Pretty terrible attitude? Yep. But I bet we're not the only ones who have it, and I bet Obama doesn't get over the line without us.

        Now, what happens to us, when it looks like we're part of the losing team? We're going to walk away.

        When Obama comes out with some shitty ad, like the "Education" one from earlier this week, or throws Wes Clark under the bus when he has the temerity to actually tell the truth about what McCain's POW time qualifies him for (er, nothing), or caves on something like FISA and tells us (kindly) to fuck off, then, no, I'm not going to invest more, I'm going to invest less.

        Again, terrible attitude? Ok. But Obama's still not going to get past the line without people like us. We'll fight gleefully if we think we're being well-led. We won't if we don't, because we don't really need to, at least not as much as the next person.

        One final point:

        Who's got more to give -- the people already in it to their eyeballs, or the people in it to their waists? If it's 100 degrees in the shade, how many layers can you take off before you start to bleed? I can do more -- I can take off more layers -- and I'll do it if he shows me he's doing what he can and doing it smart.

        Today they released a statement saying they were taking the gloves off. Well, in 2004 Kerry said he was a fighter, that he new what a battle was and how to handle it, and he fucking didn't. He said he'd fight, and he didn't. I'm afraid it's structural; they say they'll fight, and they don't. We've heard any number of times from Pelosi and Reid that the battle is now joined.

        Show me, Obama. Show me you understand that we're dealing with a crime syndicate. Them I'm all in.

        That's Sarah Pygmalion, my friends.

        by itswhatson on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 11:10:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Wording (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lauramp, pwrmac5, stunzeed

    is, I think, what frustrates people about those who express concern or wish to offer up suggestions for the campaign.

    I know it bothers me.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying "Obama can try this" or "maybe if the campaign did that" - but thus far the vast majority of comments with criticism go along the lines of

    "If Obama does not _, he WILL lose"

    or

    "If Obama wants to win, he MUST ____"

    It gets a little grating to have to put with with a mob of Nostradamuses. I'm just saying.

    May your anger be righteous.

    by bottlerocketheart on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:23:00 AM PDT

  •  I agree to a point (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wmtriallawyer, lauramp, pwrmac5, stunzeed

    i think people should speak their mind and readers should come to our own conclusions about it.  We all want and need Obama to win and there is where we all agree.  You have experience I don't have, i have never been involved in politics other than the level of going on dailykos and  being a voracious reader here.  Your opinion I weight because of your experience and I enjoy your writing.  

    The problem i have though, is because we are not in Obama's inner circle, we don't know what his complete overall strategy is so that if his ad "sucks" to us, for example, to him they may be setting something else up that we are unaware of.

    There is only one thing i am confident of, and this is Obama's motivation and skill at winning.  He beat the Clinton machine and raised more money than anyone else, and has created organization, that is unsurpassed, and i think you would agree, including in your Indianopolis campaign experience.

    So I am more likely to think this:  if there are problems:  "Obama is on it".  If we are confused about something, i might think:  "This tactic will only become apparent later".  But, I also know that the hollering and screaming here, when people feel that Obama isn't doing the right thing, is giving him information that he uses in his next strategy, and again, i think, "Obama will get the message".

    I have supreme confidence in Obama, and yet i know the critiques here are necessary as information gathering for Obama's campaign.  And i also know i have to do my part: donate time and money to the cause.  Money i have donated so far and i intend to donate time as well.

    There, wasn't that a liberal's wishy washy nuanced position ;-)  .

  •  Didn’t know there was an issue (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrchumchum, Shannon S

    I am not a pro by any stretch of the meaning of the words.  I help out from time to time, and my only claim is that I am old and have seen lots of politics in my life.  Starting when I was a kid as my father was active.

    If we all thought the same, we would not need language.  There would be no need to communicate and there would be no need for elections.  Obviously we don’t.

    Some might feel panicky.  Some might feel smug in that they know what went wrong.  Some of us expect this to play out in our favor as long as Obama keeps trucking.

    That said, my comments are for Kos readers.  They might be campaign workers.  They might be news folks.  The point is I am expressing an opinion that I hope is generally supportive of Democratic causes.  And sometimes this includes what I think would be the best way to do things.  But everyone knows it’s just an opinion.

  •  Everyone please read Lakoff's Huffpost article (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eugene, skip1of8, Pager, two roads

    "Don't Think of a Maverick!" posted yesterday here.  Lakoff is a cognitive scientist who has done research on why people support candidates and positions.  A sample:

    In 1980, Richard Wirthlin -- Ronald Reagan's chief strategist -- made a fateful discovery. In his first poll he discovered that most people didn't like Reagan's positions on the issues, but nevertheless wanted to vote for Reagan. The reason, he figured out, is that voters vote for president not primarily on the issues, but on five other factors -- "character" factors: Values; Authenticity; Communication and connection; Trust; and Identity. In the Reagan-Carter and Reagan-Mondale debates, Mondale and Carter were ahead on the issues and lost the debates, because the debates were not about the issues, but about those other five character factors. George W. Bush used the same observation in his two races. Gore and Kerry ran on the issues. Bush ran on those five factors.

    In the 2008 nomination campaign, Hillary ran on the issues, while Obama ran on those five factors and won. McCain is now running a Reagan-Bush style character-based campaign on the Big Five factors. But Obama has switched to a campaign based "on the issues," like Hillary, Gore, and Kerry. Obama has reality on his side. And the campaign is assuming that if you just tell people the truth, they will reason to the right conclusion. That's false and they should know better.

    [...]But post-Palin, the Obama-Biden campaign seems to have become the Gore-Kerry-Hillary campaign. They are running on 18th Century theory of Enlightenment reason: If you just tell people the facts, they will follow their self-interest and reason to the right conclusion. What contemporary cognitive scientists have discovered (See my new book, The Political Mind: Why You Can't Understand 21st Century Politics with an 18th Century Brain), and what Republican marketers have known for decades, is that the Enlightenment theory of reason doesn't describe how people actually work. People think primarily in terms of cultural narratives, stereotypes, frames, and metaphors. That is real reason.

  •  the Dkos Echo Chamber and Red Sox fans (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, Torta, mrchumchum, Sean O

    Democrats are very much like Red Sox fans pre-2004. Sox fans were well-trained in the annual ritual of a late summer collapse, even when everyone knew they had the best team on the field. How many times can you watch a seemingly insurmountable lead vanish? It creates an atmosphere where Chicken Littles proliferate. It only makes sense that Democrats, after losing so many close elections, are a bunch of anxious hand-wringers.

    In an echo chamber like Dkos, the battle between Chicken Littles and Kool Aid drinkers is magnified and distorted. (It's very much like sports radio in Boston - anyone who has been stuck in a Boston cab  has heard the frustrations and passions of generations of 'close misses' expressed for hours on end over the airwaves) The increased volume within the echo chamber makes the debate more emotional. When we acknowledge the stakes in this election, it's easy to understand how some of what should be rational dialogue becomes personal, petty and completely irrational.

    To be honest, I find this conflict both reassuring and healthy. It means people CARE and won't get complacent.

    Still not sure whether or not I'm gonna be celebrating or muttering about effing Bucky Dent Sarah Palin on November 5th but if the Sox can come back from 0-3, anything is possible.

    John McCain: America Can't Afford Healthy Children

    by Chrispy67 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:33:26 AM PDT

  •  Glad You Wrote This (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, wmtriallawyer, Shannon S

    I am so tired of people being called concern trolls or chicken littles when they are addressing very legitimate points.

    It is not bad to offer constructive criticism to the Obama campaign.  The fact is that the campaign is behind in the polls and is floundering.  He needs a correction and many people have some good ideas.  We should be able to talk about that without being bashed.

  •  Right on! Now lets hit McSame HARD! n/t (0+ / 0-)

    We Changed The Course! Now we must hold their feet to the fire.

    by hcc in VA on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:36:32 AM PDT

  •  THis is the first meta diary that hasn't (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sponson, wmtriallawyer, David PA

    annoyed me. So tipped and recd for that. Good points also. I liked your insight into how campaigns are run as well. Interesting.

    "indifference is the one thing that makes the very angels weep."-Cornell West

    by misreal on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:37:09 AM PDT

  •  Trolls are fairly easy to spot (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    paintitblue, Wisdumb

    I'd never accuse someone who has a long history of posting on dkos of being a "troll" just because they say something I disagree with, no matter how strongly I disagree.  The diarist's point is well taken that we shouldn't wildly throw accusations and insults at each other and should tolerate all points of view.  However paraphrasing what I said above, when I see someone who persists in saying "I'm so disappointed right now,"  "I just feel like giving up,"  "I don't see a point in trying anymore," and many, many other comments that are obviously intended to de-motivate, and the person has a very recently created ID, I know what to do.

    •  You can complain but not be giving up!! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Diggla

      I am complaining about media coverage, but I am going to shuttle volunteers around also. Give it a break!!
      You can complain and make suggestions and not be a troll....If you think not, you are probably inexperienced and unfamiliar with political tactics.

      To Whom Much is given, Much is expected.

      by lizhoyt on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:06:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I straddle the two (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    paintitblue, stunzeed

    extremes and it makes me worse if I read to many diaries, or watch to much idiotic TV. Of the two modes I think the chicken little one is the most destructive. As I'm a grass root worker and online political junkie I get phone calls from my non active Democratic friends who are also panicked because they get all their information from the TV.

    I send them to KO's and Rachael's shows but wish Obama would hit back hard myself. I feel that the surreal coverage from both the media and the campaigns who act like the last 8 years were politics as usual would stop. I want more of the fierce urgency of now and less John McCain is an honorable man.

    Pussyfooting around for the sake of the stupid 30% vote seems like a losing strategy as those who support Obama and new voters  responded to his bottom up movement and non pandering. Were not doomed we are in the midst of the battle which is controlled by the beast which is pulling the same bs it always does. Don't be bamboozled.

    I am going to Obama headquaters in OR tonight to hear Howard Dean talk, he's calm and smart as far as strategy. I find that the grassroots here is way less inclined to be either Chicken Littles or Koolaid drinkers. Maybe because they deal with real people not the media's version or the nets.        

    "And if my thought-dreams could be seen They'd probably put my head in a guillotine" Bob Dylan

    by shaharazade on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:41:06 AM PDT

  •  One of the reasons I'm limiting my DK exposure: (5+ / 0-)

    this year:

    The prevalence of the "Don't Worry, Be Happy" crowd and the "We're Doomed, Doomed, I Tell You!" crowd.  It's hard to find a happy doomed middle ground. The dramatics of the constant "if you lost X, you lost the election" (puleeze) and the "Obama is down 3 points in Gallup, we might as well pack it up" is becoming a bit trying. My favorite:  "The media is coming around and finally doing their jobs."  Yeah, for an hour or two and not all of them.  While the AP may have slammed Palin's interview, NPR was propping her up this morning.  In politics as in life, what will be, will be. Sadly though, pragmatism seem to be a dying artform on dkos these days.

    My only questions in all this is:

    Where the fuck are the Clintons?

    Where the fuck are the hardhitting Democratic surrogates (saying things to outrage the republicans and make McCain overreach)?

    Where the fuck is attack dog Biden?

    Perhaps Obama did decide to wait until after the 9/11 coverage simmers down to go on the offensive.  If so, I hope the barrage is overwhelming and maintained.  You can attack from the high road - Obama's speech proved that.

    My only major compliant is the Obama campaign can't seem to consistently maintain a winning PR strategy with a news cycle grabbing opponent.  The repubs obviously learned something from our primary. I had hoped Obama's campaign would have too. Obama's campaign needs to work on that because this isn't the primary and the dynamics are very different-keeping the narrative swung your way is more important on a national scale in a general election. Whether it's the difference between winning or losing is difficult to say. But it is more important.

    One thing I've come to expect with Obama after all this time: the man may wobble but he doesn't fall down (He's a Weeble!).  With Obama it's always about patience.  It's served him well so far, even of it drives the rest of us instant gratification junkies completely insane.

    This has been a relatively KoolAid-free, doom-free post.  

    We don't need 4 more years of the last 8 years.-Hillary Clinton rockin' it at Convention '08.

    by mentaldebris on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:41:58 AM PDT

    •  Remember the primaries? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mentaldebris, ticket punch, pwrmac5

      Obama ran against an opponent who portrayed herself as the experienced veteran, ready on day one.  Then, when it bacame clear at last to that opponent that her message of experience was not reaching the voters, who preferred Obama's message of change, she pivoted and tried to run as the defender of the hard-working blue-collar little people.

      She made gains with that approach, but primarily because of the distribution of primary states and because the states which include Appalachia mostly voted later in the primaries.  But it still wasn't enough and she lost to Obama, with his cool, serene, unchanging positive message of change.

      I'm not a Kool-Aid drinker.  My calm comes from the example of our candidate AND my on-the-ground, face-to-face DAILY work for the campaign.

      My new requirement, and how I challenge Chicken Littles, is this:  other than panic in public on DKos, what did you do TODAY to influence a voter?

      Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor.

      by abrauer on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:04:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  All of the above, plus, (0+ / 0-)

      with early voting so common now, there's only about a month for McCain to screw up beyond repair, or for Obama to make a huge impression on a few more voters.  That's the "concern" I'm feeling.  Every day I wait for Obama to do something that makes a bigger impression than the McCain/Palin spit-balls.

  •  Is it possible to be convinced we'll lose (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eugene, slinkerwink, Pazuzu, Shannon S

    but not be panicking about it? Because that's where I've been for a while. I'm sending in money, and I wish I could volunteer (but I can't right now -- no time to give). But I just see a lot of ineptness and drying powder by the Dems, a lot of media complicity with the Repubs, and a public who appear to be so easily brainwashed that I really am considering becoming a con artist. All of this makes me think that Obama will lose and that we'll continue to watch the U.S. implode.

    Despite my pessimism, I'm actually kind of serene. Maybe I've moved into acceptance.

  •  Bite your tongue, keyboard, fingers, something.. (0+ / 0-)

    How dare anyone be "concerned?"

    Personally, I'm concerned as hell. Between dirty-tricks by Republican Secretaries of State ala Ohio 2004 and hackable e-voting machines - I'm not only "concerned; I'm petrified!

    Isn't one failed rich-assed jet-jockey in the White House ruining their lives enough for these people? - some Anon-No-Moose American citizen

    by SecondComing on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:53:49 AM PDT

  •  "He (BHO) wants to do it his way, and his way (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink

    alone," so said one his colleagues a few days ago.

    So I'm not getting upset about the ineffective ads or his lapses into Kerryspeak anymore. He'll be the one retreating to the Senate in defeat if he doesn't turn his campaign around. The slide stared after the Superdelegates pulled him across the finish line in June. He got complacent between then and the convention, where as Hillary, with her stubborn energy, would have been plugging away all summer long.

  •  You're a flip-flopper! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wmtriallawyer

    I'm handing out cheap flip-flops outside your office later today.

  •  Rick Davis was right . . . (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eugene, ozarkspark, Shannon S

    Issues DON'T matter to most voters.  I am now convinced of this and it took me a long time to get here.  The Bullshit from the McCain machine is sticking and it will be impossible to clean enough of it off to matter to these voters.  They DO NOT want to be confused by any sort of fact/issue driven campaign.  The bullshit ads WORK and it's not being a "chicken little" to acknowledge that.  We all said the "convention bounce" would fade, but it's NOT--it's getting BIGGER while Biden has gone into hiding and Obama is speaking to rooms with 50 people in them and "responding" with truly LAME ads.  I am convinced we are fucked if this continues.  McCain doesn't CARE if the "media" is all over his lies because IT DOESN'T MATTER-- LIES WORK!!  PERIOD!

    Unless there is a HUGE misstep by McCain ( and NONE of that shit from Palin yesterday will matter AT ALL) he will beat Obama pretty handily in those "key swing states."

    But I will fight on till the end, as I have in every election since 1972 with all the time I can spare and all the money I can give.

    Ah, Fuck . . . .

  •  in a texas death-strap cage match!!! ohhhh yeah! (0+ / 0-)

    we'll stand him up against a wall and pop goes the weasel /rufus t. firefly

    by 2nd balcony on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:00:31 AM PDT

  •  Before you write a diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lauramp, pwrmac5, stunzeed

    ask yourself, "Am I writing this to be of use to the community", or am I writing it for myself?

    I have just as many private opinions about the campaign as anyone else, but you know, I recognize that my opinion is probably not more valuable than any other average diarist on here.  I work in IT, and feel that I'm accomplished enough in that and in a couple other areas to write a diary on them, but when it comes to running a political campaign, I'm a reader, not a writer.

    In that position, I feel that I could comment in a diary, have a conversation with someone about various approaches...but if you write a diary, it shows that you think  you have enough expertise in something to tell the rest of us about it.

    If you DO happen to have some expertise in it, then it might be a good idea to talk about that in your diary.

    A year ago, most of what I read on DKos was useful and informative.  Now, I heavily filter for trolls, self-proclaimed experts who happen to have their shorts in a knot over something, armchair quarterbacks, etc.   There is less and less useful information being written here every day.

  •  In the meantime... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pwrmac5, stunzeed

    I rely on Morning Joe. Not because he's smart like Rachel Maddow, or principled like Keith Olbermann. Because he's an opportunist.

    I call him my weathervane. Because he always knows which way the wind is blowing.

    I woke up to hear him saying, "This ad by John McCain is a total lie."

    And then what followed was a bunch of pundits agreeing that this campaign is about issues.

    Forget the polls, which are flawed anyway. Those are distractions at this point, because Palin is tanking with AP, McCain looks like he's promoting pedophilia, and they are both being called liars in most news outlets.

    It will take a while for that to be reflected in the polls. Look at them a week from now.

    Barack Obama has changed the game. He actually has the press talking about the issues. Doesn't anyone get how amazing that is?

    Obama and his team are not reacting to every little thing. They have a plan, they are working the plan...

    and the plan is working.

    This isn't just "taking the high road." This is building a superhighway straight through the Republican's neghborhood.

    I repeat, Barack Obama has changed the game.

    And no one has done that in 30 years.

    WereBear
    Pootie fan? Me too! Check out my cat advice blog.
    The Way of Cats

    by WereBear on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:00:46 AM PDT

    •  He has changed the game (0+ / 0-)

      which is remarkable for a candidate. He has changed the course of the Bush administration's Iraq war, having Bush at least pay lip service (no pun intended) to withdrawal...ooops...Redeployment. He has changed the focus from Iraq to Afghanistan and Pakistan, where Osama probably is. He has changed the McCain campaign theme from "experience" to "change" and he has complained enough about McCain's vagueness in his economic message to make McCain actually think about the economy and admit that it's not terrific. He has made McCain focus on larger issues, but McCain still can't get in the tank about health care, and still can't advocate higher taxes on corporations. Obama has lost his anti-Nafta talk, probably to get the Clintons involved, but he has changed lots of things for Americans. He has made us face our racist past, and our endemic racism, he has made us face a lot in our society.
      But now he has to win. He has to pull out the plugs and the stops, and stop pulling punches.

      He has to be a regular Hurricane Ike going after the Republicans.

      He can do it.

      To Whom Much is given, Much is expected.

      by lizhoyt on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:15:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks! internal name-calling is always unhelpful (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink

    Whether the name being thrown is "bed wetter" or "kool aid drinker" or "chicken little" or "messaging nazi".

    I've recently been called both (re: your title), as have quite a few of us, probably!

  •  McCain On Letterman On 10/2001 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shannon S

    McCain is a sell-out.

  •  There is a difference between criticism and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew

    shrieking, mind-abating, panic.  That's my only beef with the "critics".

    Present it reasonably.  Screaming about it in EVERY diary's comments section and over and over again in every open thread is just awful.

    Hand me down my walking cane, hand me down my hat...

    by Cheez Whiz on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:08:47 AM PDT

  •  We can't let oppression from the right lead to (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wmtriallawyer, lauramp, stunzeed

    depression on the left!

    A message I sent yesterday to my fellow progressives Houston:

    I have had my own moments of discomfort while the Obama campaign made adjustments in strategy to deal with the trickiness (and treachery) of the McCain-Palin campaign. I have listened also to my fellow Democrats, those still looking on from the sidelines, who are letting that get them down, who are slipping into that "we can never win--give it up" attitude.  And I just want to say that we can't let oppression from the right lead us into depression on the left!

    Last night I went to the new Houston/Harris County for Obama headquarters to a training for becoming a deputy voter registrar.  I want to tell you the place was brimming over with people--this multi-cultural crowd was bulging out the doors and windows, and they were energized--they were the team in the locker room rallying to get out on the field and win!  They were taking no prisoners.  Now that's the way to fight both op-pression and de-pression in my book.  Fire it up, ready to go is the mantra coming from this group and they moved out of there like a locomotive at full speed ahead.

    If you're losing hope, losing faith, just get yourself into some meetings with the Camp Obama team--you'll catch the fire!

    I have had my moments of feeling the Obama campaign was erring in not encouraging him to change from the intellectual strategy to a more passionate and emotional one in response to the Republican lies going unquestioned by the mainstream media.  After all the best progressive wonk for strategic framing of campaign policy, George Lakoff, advises us to play to the underlying emotional belief system of the public in designing our responses to Republican rhetoric.

    Yet I believe the campaign strategists, and perhaps Obama himself, do not want to risk him seeming to be an "angry black man"--this would make him a lot more scary to those who already have been made to fear him.  The campaign doesn't want to play into that stereotype from the sixties of the "black muslim" radical element that the neo-conservative Rovians have been trying to push onto the public.

    What I have noticed them starting to do is getting some "surrogates" out on the stump who can slam back at the Republican lies while allowing Obama to keep on the high road as one who has a cool head and good judgment in times of a critical onslaught.  There have been speakers for Obama in Barbara Boxer, Robert Gibbs, and James Carville who have gotten out there to kick some a$$ along with Biden, and you/we the people, who are the grassroots upswelling in America for change, need to be right out there with them, speaking for change, real change--not the more of the same kind of change the Republicans are driveling about.  I mean how weak can their argument be when they have to steal ours to get anywhere?

    Yesterday I sent out an email to just a few of my progressive friends who are forming a group called Speakers for Democracy.  The group is brainstorming to come up with the best "frames" for countering the Republican shpiel and I sent to them some exerpts from an Obama stump speech given to a group of educators.  In these exerpts, he sounds out some strong and punchy phrases that encouraged me that he and the campaign strategists are recovering from the onslaught of the Rovian surge.  Perhaps they will encourage you too if you are one of us falling into depression from the oppression and you can begin to use some of this same kind of language when you are speaking/writing for Obama:

    "Enough!" Obama said. "I don’t care what they say about me. But I love this country too much for them to take over another election with lies, and phony outrage and Swift Boat politics. Enough is enough. These are serious times and they call for a serious debate about where to take the nation..."

    "Spare me the phony outrage, spare me the phony talk about change, we have real problems in this country right now," Obama continued. "The American people are looking to us for answers. Not distractions, not diversions, not manipulations. They want real answers to the real problems we are facing. That’s the kind that I intend to have because that’s the kind of debate the American people deserve. "

    _______________

    And on another note, I will share with you a diary on the Daily Kos this morning from a hardliner Republican who has crossed over to our side and he tells us why:

    "We are out here - the Republicans or ex-Republicans who will no longer tolerate the racist, despicable slime machine that the right wing and the John McCain-Sarah Palin campaign has become.  I know, for I am one of them.  I am not your typical progressive, being an ex- Air Force officer (9 years), evangelical Christian, card carrying conservative, Rush/Hannity listener - an now an Obama supporter in John McCain's home state of Arizona.

    snip

    Nothing has shamed me more than the evangelical groupthink around the Sarah Palin pick.  People I used to respect for their strong stand on the family and values have completely abandoned their principles to back someone whom they think offers a slim grasp at victory.  I will not participate in it, nor will my church, for which I am thankful.  Trust me, the groupthink on the right is not as rampant as you may think.  There are those of us that recognize that our so-called conservative and Christian leaders in this country are almost universally bankrupt, and we are outraged and ashamed.  

    snip

    What do I see in Barack Obama? I see an intelligent, thoughtful, unflappable leader. I see a patriot who is rising up and putting himself forth for leadership of this great nation in its hour of need.  Goodness knows, I would not want the job.   I see a man who will perform the duties of the President of the United States with sober and thoughtful judgement.  I see a man with the breadth and depth who can address many of these problems we face as a nation. I see a man who wants to bring us together.   I don't pretend it will be easy, it will not be.  There are big problems to be solved.    We will need to come together, those of us on each side of the political spectrum.  First to get Barack Obama elected, then to work to make America a better place.  I will do my part to convince those I know that a vote for McCain will be a disaster.  

    Now, how does that grab you?

    Finding your own Voice -- The personal is political!

    by In her own Voice on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:09:57 AM PDT

  •  I'm not worried- (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stunzeed

    Let her show what SHE'S made of, let her guard down a little, look at what has happened on her first interview with a FOX reporter. Obama's doing the right thing, right now.  We don't know enough of what she's made of, and as long as she feels confident and safe, she'll show her hand.  Obama's a poker player, he knows.

  •  Loved this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wmtriallawyer

    Hope at least a few more people scroll down to appreciate it as well.

  •  we like to say that we are a "reality based" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wmtriallawyer, ticket punch

    community until the reality goes against us.

  •  I'm so glad to see this diary on the rec list ... (6+ / 0-)

    I popped in this morning when it had but a few comments, and got to work to find it on the rec list.  I have found the sudden rise in popularity of these terms (chicken little, concern troll, kool-aid drinkers) disturbing.  We're not going to do our candidates any favors if even we Kossacks are polarized.  

    Genuine concerns should be addressed respectfully, not with "Your concern is noted, now move along" type comments.

    Thanks for this diary.  I sincerely hope it gives pause to the "extremists" on either side.

  •  Well I happen (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lauramp, stunzeed

    to be neither a chicken little or a kool-aid drinker (love how we take on the winger's description of ourselves- yup yup brilliant).. what I have figured out over the last 2 years of listening, watching and paying attention to Obama the candidate is that not only do I believe him capable to lead this country, but also, ironically, I believe him capable of running his campaign.  

    Because our individual salvation depends on our collective salvation.. Barack Obama, 5-25-08

    by sherijr on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:12:47 AM PDT

  •  We Will Win!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    In her own Voice, stunzeed

    As much as we don't like McCain getting a bounce it is what it is. We have to focus on GOTV and as well as calling out the media for the bs. Also send the Obama tax calculator to everyone you know.  People will actually get a sense of what Obama will do for them. We have 50 something odd days to victory. I have never thought victory was going to be easy especially since the powers that be do not want a Democrat in the White House but that doesn't discouraged me. It makes me want to fight even more so. Because I don't appreciate how Republicans sneer at Democrats when they themselves have nothing to show for.   We know what we are capable of. This is not meant to be Pollyanna but a way to keep our eyes on the ball.  

  •  Deja vu all over again..... (0+ / 0-)

    Voter suppression and stealing votes is always their strategy. This has been going on for months!!!! The media is hyping the close race and the polls even before the bounce from Palin. It's all about making it close and stealing it. Deja vu all over again.

  •  Poll has 60% Biden 40+% Palin (0+ / 0-)

    Confidence in ability to govern.

    To Whom Much is given, Much is expected.

    by lizhoyt on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:20:56 AM PDT

  •  poor Kool Aid (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wmtriallawyer, David PA

    a few days ago another Kossack pointed out that it was grape flavored Flavoraid that the Jonestown folks consumed, yet Kool Aid is still getting an unfortunate rap.

    i know it has nothing to do with the substance of your diary, but since I just found this out the other day myself - on DKos - I just thought I'd mention it.

    even more fired up now.

    by avadoria on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:28:01 AM PDT

  •  good diary (0+ / 0-)

    it is one thing to present a valid critique with a plan of action.  My blood boils though when I see people repeating repub smears against Obama as though they ARE valid critiques.  My blood boils when people call for others to stop donating and stop working for obama because it's a losing battle.  

    Those are the people that I will tell to STFU - this election is too important to tolerate water-carrying from those who are allegedly on "our side."

    Blue House Diaries...because there's more to life than politics.

    by lapolitichick on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:29:02 AM PDT

  •  I am not a seasoned politician.... (3+ / 0-)

    but a citizen who is scared to death that the Rovian slinky-style of McSame is working for him, I am imploring Obama to be less of a gentlemen, less of an intellectual, and begin snipping back.  Gore and Kerry wasted too many words and now so is Obama.  Our uneducated and too-busy-to-be-bothered masses pay no attention unless they are grabbed by short bites.  McSame and Palin are lying flagrantly with no respect for truth and their deceptions should be passionately refuted head-on.  

    Push for Voter-Owned Clean Elections: Be A Citizen Co-Sponsor

    by gildareed on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:34:48 AM PDT

  •  OK, its official (1+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    shpilk
    Hidden by:
    David PA

    The Rec List has been taken over by lunatics.

    If at first you don't succeed, your name is not Chuck Todd.

    by Larry Madill on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:38:44 AM PDT

  •  Enough squabbling! Let's get to work! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wmtriallawyer

    You guys over there, yeah, you're right, there's no room for complacency. So let's get to work.

    You others, yeah, you're right, a chorus of armchair cassandras isn't helpful. So let's get to work.

    I think we can agree that this election is not going to be decided by the optimism or pessimism of spectators. We can't let the rapid feedback loop of the blogosphere hypnotize us into either posture of passivity. Sean Quinn at FiveThirtyEight has the right idea. Let's get to work!

  •  your own personal MetaJesus (0+ / 0-)

    this site needs LOTS more talk about how to do things and way less talk about the candidates.  We talk about the candidates WAY too much.  It's getting sooooooo boring.  Let' get META

    "No way, no how, no Palin war with Russia." --KariQ

    by andrewj54 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:45:30 AM PDT

  •  Chicken little song-diary, with poll (0+ / 0-)

    right here

  •  I'm Also a CITIZEN and Obama is Star Wars (0+ / 0-)

    It either works this time, or there IS NO next time.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:49:06 AM PDT

  •  And what about diaries on the Rec (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shpilk, ticket punch

    list entitled:

    "Obama is losing Ohio".

    I would call that the sky is falling.

    And no, I don't care WHO posted it.  It's still unhelpful handwringing with crappy suggestions.

    -6.5, -7.59. Dump Harry Reid. Put in someone who can rid us of Holy Joe Lieberman.

    by DrWolfy on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:54:55 AM PDT

    •  It's an abomination. (0+ / 0-)

      I'm beginning to think Hackett is really here to undermine liberals and progressives.

      He's too chicken to put out a tip jar, or comment in response. I would have given him all 5 .. if it wasn't 'Paul Hackett' posting that diary, the diarist would have been run out on a rail. We all know it, too.

      I'm sick of 'celebrity status' getting preferential treatment here.

      Issues. It's whats for dinner.

      by shpilk on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 10:20:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I write suggestions and concerns to the Obama cam (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, lauramp

    all the time. I always get a thank you note.  They WANT our input. This IS about us, not just Obama, as he has made absolutely clear.

    Obama isn't calling us names, he is encouraging us to act and participate in our futures. I'd rather do that than feel like a victim to thugs as I have felt for the last 8 years.

    "It is difficult to say what is impossible - for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow" - Robert Goddard

    by ggwoman55 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:58:02 AM PDT

  •  I've been so angry at that SYFPH diary--thank you (3+ / 0-)

    The diary you alluded to has bothered me so much over the past few days. I can't ever remember a diary affecting me as much as that one did. I told three different people about it and it has rattled around in my mind ever since I read it--

    I just couldn't understand why so many people rec'd a diary that basically said "shut up and drink the kool-aid."

    So thank you for getting some sense back into the discussion!

    Either you are a feminist or a sexist/misogynist. There is no box marked `other'." -Ani DiFranco

    by ErinW43 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 10:00:35 AM PDT

  •  I watched Obama on Letterman. He waved off (0+ / 0-)

    McCain's filth as "oh, that's the old way of thinking" and proceeded to describe the new way of thinking -- his way. And he did it in a manner that was positive, above the fray, and was in some ways instructional. It was good. Very good. I think this diarist is right. At this time, where this country is now, despite what we see on TV and the cackle cackle of the pundits on both sides, I think the people are, as Obama says, yearning for change. And they want that sensible, rational talk.

    Remember that for every loudmouthed dittohead or visible racist, there are many, many more we never hear from. Remember the focus groups who spoke after Palin's speech? White women in their 60s, undecideds, independents, who said things to this effect: "Oh, I listened for a while but it got so nasty, I turned off the TV and went to bed. It was just more of the same nasty politics." "She was mean." "I didn't like her." I think there's a whole lot of people out there like this.

    Forget the polls -- we know they're oversampling Republicans and the numbers can't be trusted, for that reason and for others, like the inability to poll people without landlines. I'm with Bill Clinton. Obama will win handily.

    "All across America there are quiet storms taking place." -Barack Obama

    by Carrie Ann on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 10:07:12 AM PDT

    •  Re: the people (0+ / 0-)

      The people may say that they want sensible, rational talk, but the fact remains that most people respond to negative attack ads.  That's why some of us are getting frustrated.  This is a reply of Kerry in 04.  He wanted to stay above the fray, like the rational, good citizen that he was.  But staying above the fray puts you out of the game.

      I'm happy to see Obama's new ad making fun of McCain's inability to work with e-mail and other new technology.  This is exactly the kind of hard-hitting ads that will win this election!

      •  I like those ads, too. (0+ / 0-)

        And I wasn't saying he shouldn't do those. I don't consider those to be negative. I think "negative" and "attack ads" are really misused. To point out how wrong an opponent is factually, or to contrast yourself with your opponent isn't "going negative" or an "attack ad." To me, it's making factual statements. "I'm for this, my opponent is against this. He said this, and I can prove it's wrong. He said this wrong thing five times and that makes him, well, a liar." Nothing wrong with that. If Obama keeps this up, and keeps calling McCain out for the lying liar he is, yes, he'll do fine.

        "All across America there are quiet storms taking place." -Barack Obama

        by Carrie Ann on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 02:02:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Dailykos has a serious problem. (0+ / 0-)

    We have a number of diaries that hit the rec list that are full of inaccuracies and awful suggestions.

    Hackett's 'losing Ohio' diary is a bad joke.

    The one about 'Ballot Fraud' and 'Voter Fraud' turns out to be neither.

    The one about Palin supposedly linking 9/11 and Iraq is based upon the flawed analysis of Anne Kornbluth, and is based in either her incompetence, or in some hidden agenda to set a narrative call and response.

    Over and over I see recommended diaries that are based upon half truths, outright fabrications, misunderstandings and general asshattery.

    You have every right to recommend diaries. You also have the responsibility to do so in a thoughtful manner. If you have recommended the awful piece of garbage posted by Paul Hackett, please take a moment think about what it says, and then unrecommend it.

    Issues. It's whats for dinner.

    by shpilk on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 10:17:27 AM PDT

  •  This is war and it has (0+ / 0-)

    to be fought on two fronts.

    1. Female Dem surrogates - go after Palin often and forcefully!
    1. Obama - Go after McFun and "drill" him on every freakin line. Temperament, not CHANGE, etc. etc.

    Now I'm getting tired of all the BS. Unless you have a remedy or some valid input that can move us forward. Please chill...

    A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. -- Walter Gagehot

    by Dancing Angel on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 10:25:38 AM PDT

  •  Your 'concern' is noted (0+ / 0-)

    As to why you dislike Hackett's diary, you left that unexplained. Obama lost this election when he selected Biden as running mate. That left a hole in the wall a mile wide that McCain could and did drive the Palin truck through.

    It's on to 2012 for Dems. We need to start planning what we can do, if anything, to win the next one.

    John McWar: refighting Vietnam in Iraq, relighting the Cold War in Georgia.

    by edg on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 10:33:18 AM PDT

  •  i disagree that al's diary was about (0+ / 0-)

    "drinking the kool-aid" the main point to me was there is a lot of hand wringing going on, along with just plain old negativism. none of that stuff gets obama into the whitehouse. positive suggestions, ideas & voluteering are much better than just saying "i dont what they're doing, we losing aaahhh" also one of the main problems has been all this negative reaction in the face of polls directly after the rncc, we new mccain was gonna gain after it yet people have still overreacted. thats a problem.

    "guess what black folks? if you ain't auditoning for a snail movie you ain't gotta act slow" -6.62,-6.00

    by Knockout Ed on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 10:34:35 AM PDT

  •  I think this diary really misses the problem. (0+ / 0-)

    There is a small number of posters here who are so psychotically negative about Obama and his campaign that they are destroying this blog.  The current atmosphere is very similar to how it was right before Alegre went "on strike".  Alegre and her minions derailed diary after diary with their nutso anti-Obama points.  Currently, we have another handful of posters  who derail diary after diary with nutso anti-Obama points.  Something has to be done about these posters before they destroy Daily Kos.  

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