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The richest 400 Americans -- that's right, just four hundred people -- own MORE than the bottom 150 million Americans combined. 400 rich Americans have got more stashed away than half the entire country! Their combined net worth is $1.6 trillion. During the eight years of the Bush Administration, their wealth has increased by nearly $700 billion -- the same amount that they are now demanding we give to them for the "bailout." Why don't they just spend the money they made under Bush to bail themselves out? They'd still have nearly a trillion dollars left over to spread amongst themselves!

Of course, they are not going to do that -- at least not voluntarily. George W. Bush was handed a $127 billion surplus when Bill Clinton left office. Because that money was OUR money and not his, he did what the rich prefer to do -- spend it and never look back. Now we have a $9.5 trillion debt. Why on earth would we even think of giving these robber barons any more of our money?

I would like to propose my own bailout plan. My suggestions, listed below, are predicated on the singular and simple belief that the rich must pull themselves up by their own platinum bootstraps. Sorry, fellows, but you drilled it into our heads one too many times: There... is... no... free... lunch. And thank you for encouraging us to hate people on welfare! So, there will be no handouts from us to you. The Senate, tonight, is going to try to rush their version of a "bailout" bill to a vote. They must be stopped. We did it on Monday with the House, and we can do it again today with the Senate.

It is clear, though, that we cannot simply keep protesting without proposing exactly what it is we think Congress should do. So, after consulting with a number of people smarter than Phil Gramm, here is my proposal, now known as "Mike's Rescue Plan." It has 10 simple, straightforward points. They are:

  1. APPOINT A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR TO CRIMINALLY INDICT ANYONE ON WALL STREET WHO KNOWINGLY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS COLLAPSE. Before any new money is expended, Congress must commit, by resolution, to criminally prosecute anyone who had anything to do with the attempted sacking of our economy. This means that anyone who committed insider trading, securities fraud or any action that helped bring about this collapse must go to jail. This Congress must call for a Special Prosecutor who will vigorously go after everyone who created the mess, and anyone else who attempts to scam the public in the future.
  1. THE RICH MUST PAY FOR THEIR OWN BAILOUT. They may have to live in 5 houses instead of 7. They may have to drive 9 cars instead of 13. The chef for their mini-terriers may have to be reassigned. But there is no way in hell, after forcing family incomes to go down more than $2,000 dollars during the Bush years, that working people and the middle class are going to fork over one dime to underwrite the next yacht purchase.

If they truly need the $700 billion they say they need, well, here is an easy way they can raise it:

a) Every couple who makes over a million dollars a year and every single taxpayer who makes over $500,000 a year will pay a 10% surcharge tax for five years. (It's the Senator Sanders plan. He's like Colonel Sanders, only he's out to fry the right chickens.) That means the rich will still be paying less income tax than when Carter was president. This will raise a total of $300 billion.

b) Like nearly every other democracy, charge a 0.25% tax on every stock transaction. This will raise more than $200 billion in a year.

c) Because every stockholder is a patriotic American, stockholders will forgo receiving a dividend check for one quarter and instead this money will go the treasury to help pay for the bailout.

d) 25% of major U.S. corporations currently pay NO federal income tax. Federal corporate tax revenues currently amount to 1.7% of the GDP compared to 5% in the 1950s. If we raise the corporate income tax back to the level of the 1950s, that gives us an extra $500 billion.

All of this combined should be enough to end the calamity. The rich will get to keep their mansions and their servants, and our United States government ("COUNTRY FIRST!") will have a little leftover to repair some roads, bridges and schools.

  1. BAIL OUT THE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR HOMES, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BUILD AN EIGHTH HOME. There are 1.3 million homes in foreclosure right now. That is what is at the heart of this problem. So instead of giving the money to the banks as a gift, pay down each of these mortgages by $100,000. Force the banks to renegotiate the mortgage so the homeowner can pay on its current value. To insure that this help does no go to speculators and those who have tried to make money by flipping houses, this bailout is only for people's primary residence. And in return for the $100K paydown on the existing mortgage, the government gets to share in the holding of the mortgage so that it can get some of its money back. Thus, the total initial cost of fixing the mortgage crisis at its roots (instead of with the greedy lenders) is $150 billion, not $700 billion.

And let's set the record straight. People who have defaulted on their mortgages are not "bad risks." They are our fellow Americans, and all they wanted was what we all want and most of us still get: a home to call their own. But during the Bush years, millions of them lost the decent paying jobs they had. Six million fell into poverty. Seven million lost their health insurance. And every one of them saw their real wages go down by $2,000. Those who dare to look down on these Americans who got hit with one bad break after another should be ashamed. We are a better, stronger, safer and happier society when all of our citizens can afford to live in a home that they own.

  1. IF YOUR BANK OR COMPANY GETS ANY OF OUR MONEY IN A "BAILOUT," THEN WE OWN YOU. Sorry, that's how it's done. If the bank gives me money so I can buy a house, the bank "owns" that house until I pay it all back -- with interest. Same deal for Wall Street. Whatever money you need to stay afloat, if our government considers you a safe risk -- and necessary for the good of the country -- then you can get a loan, but we will own you. If you default, we will sell you. This is how the Swedish government did it and it worked.
  1. ALL REGULATIONS MUST BE RESTORED. THE REAGAN REVOLUTION IS DEAD. This catastrophe happened because we let the fox have the keys to the henhouse. In 1999, Phil Gramm authored a bill to remove all the regulations that governed Wall Street and our banking system. The bill passed and Clinton signed it. Here's what Sen. Phil Gramm, McCain's chief economic advisor, said at the bill signing:

"In the 1930s ... it was believed that government was the answer. It was believed that stability and growth came from government overriding the functioning of free markets.

"We are here today to repeal [that] because we have learned that government is not the answer. We have learned that freedom and competition are the answers. We have learned that we promote economic growth and we promote stability by having competition and freedom.

"I am proud to be here because this is an important bill; it is a deregulatory bill. I believe that that is the wave of the future, and I am awfully proud to have been a part of making it a reality."

This bill must be repealed. Bill Clinton can help by leading the effort for the repeal of the Gramm bill and the reinstating of even tougher regulations regarding our financial institutions. And when they're done with that, they can restore the regulations for the airlines, the inspection of our food, the oil industry, OSHA, and every other entity that affects our daily lives. All oversight provisions for any "bailout" must have enforcement monies attached to them and criminal penalties for all offenders.

  1. IF IT'S TOO BIG TO FAIL, THEN THAT MEANS IT'S TOO BIG TO EXIST. Allowing the creation of these mega-mergers and not enforcing the monopoly and anti-trust laws has allowed a number of financial institutions and corporations to become so large, the very thought of their collapse means an even bigger collapse across the entire economy. No one or two companies should have this kind of power. The so-called "economic Pearl Harbor" can't happen when you have hundreds -- thousands -- of institutions where people have their money. When you have a dozen auto companies, if one goes belly-up, we don't face a national disaster. If you have three separately-owned daily newspapers in your town, then one media company can't call all the shots (I know... What am I thinking?! Who reads a paper anymore? Sure glad all those mergers and buyouts left us with a strong and free press!). Laws must be enacted to prevent companies from being so large and dominant that with one slingshot to the eye, the giant falls and dies. And no institution should be allowed to set up money schemes that no one can understand. If you can't explain it in two sentences, you shouldn't be taking anyone's money.
  1. NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD BE PAID MORE THAN 40 TIMES THEIR AVERAGE EMPLOYEE, AND NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD RECEIVE ANY KIND OF "PARACHUTE" OTHER THAN THE VERY GENEROUS SALARY HE OR SHE MADE WHILE WORKING FOR THE COMPANY. In 1980, the average American CEO made 45 times what their employees made. By 2003, they were making 254 times what their workers made. After 8 years of Bush, they now make over 400 times what their average employee makes. How this can happen at publicly held companies is beyond reason. In Britain, the average CEO makes 28 times what their average employee makes. In Japan, it's only 17 times! The last I heard, the CEO of Toyota was living the high life in Tokyo. How does he do it on so little money? Seriously, this is an outrage. We have created the mess we're in by letting the people at the top become bloated beyond belief with millions of dollars. This has to stop. Not only should no executive who receives help out of this mess profit from it, but any executive who was in charge of running his company into the ground should be fired before the company receives any help.
  1. STRENGTHEN THE FDIC AND MAKE IT A MODEL FOR PROTECTING NOT ONLY PEOPLE'S SAVINGS, BUT ALSO THEIR PENSIONS AND THEIR HOMES. Obama was correct yesterday to propose expanding FDIC protection of people's savings in their banks to $250,000. But this same sort of government insurance must be given to our nation's pension funds. People should never have to worry about whether or not the money they've put away for their old age will be there. This will mean strict government oversight of companies who manage their employees' funds -- or perhaps it means that the companies will have to turn over those funds and their management to the government. People's private retirement funds must also be protected, but perhaps it's time to consider not having one's retirement invested in the casino known as the stock market. Our government should have a solemn duty to guarantee that no one who grows old in this country has to worry about ending up destitute.
  1. EVERYBODY NEEDS TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH, CALM DOWN, AND NOT LET FEAR RULE THE DAY. Turn off the TV! We are not in the Second Great Depression. The sky is not falling. Pundits and politicians are lying to us so fast and furious it's hard not to be affected by all the fear mongering. Even I, yesterday, wrote to you and repeated what I heard on the news, that the Dow had the biggest one day drop in its history. Well, that's true in terms of points, but its 7% drop came nowhere close to Black Monday in 1987 when the stock market in one day lost 23% of its value. In the '80s, 3,000 banks closed, but America didn't go out of business. These institutions have always had their ups and downs and eventually it works out. It has to, because the rich do not like their wealth being disrupted! They have a vested interest in calming things down and getting back into the Jacuzzi.

As crazy as things are right now, tens of thousands of people got a car loan this week. Thousands went to the bank and got a mortgage to buy a home. Students just back to college found banks more than happy to put them into hock for the next 15 years with a student loan. Life has gone on. Not a single person has lost any of their money if it's in a bank or a treasury note or a CD. And the most amazing thing is that the American public hasn't bought the scare campaign. The citizens didn't blink, and instead told Congress to take that bailout and shove it. THAT was impressive. Why didn't the population succumb to the fright-filled warnings from their president and his cronies? Well, you can only say 'Saddam has da bomb' so many times before the people realize you're a lying sack of shite. After eight long years, the nation is worn out and simply can't take it any longer.

  1. CREATE A NATIONAL BANK, A "PEOPLE'S BANK." If we really are itching to print up a trillion dollars, instead of giving it to a few rich people, why don't we give it to ourselves? Now that we own Freddie and Fannie, why not set up a people's bank? One that can provide low-interest loans for all sorts of people who want to own a home, start a small business, go to school, come up with the cure for cancer or create the next great invention. And now that we own AIG, the country's largest insurance company, let's take the next step and provide health insurance for everyone. Medicare for all. It will save us so much money in the long run. And we won't be 12th on the life expectancy list. We'll be able to have a longer life, enjoying our government-protected pension, and living to see the day when the corporate criminals who caused so much misery are let out of prison so that we can help reacclimate them to civilian life -- a life with one nice home and a gas-free car that was invented with help from the People's Bank.

Michael Moore

P.S. Call your Senators now. Here's a backup link in case we crash that site again. They are going to attempt their own version of the Looting of America tonight. And let your reps know if you agree with my 10-point plan.

Originally posted to Michael Moore on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:43 PM PDT.

Also republished by I follow Michael Moore @ the Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Go Michael (257+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    racerx, ljb, Mogolori, decisivemoment, melo, anju, JB in PA, maja27, GreenSooner, demnomore, AdmiralNaismith, lobbygow, meg, Byron from Denver, cookiesandmilk, Earwicker23, Matilda, object16, Heart of the Rockies, opinionated, Dazy, Cassandra77, ScantronPresident, maxschell, MillieNeon, ivote2004, murphsurf, kanuk, itsmitch, House, rioduran, odenthal, psnyder, Tracker, DashingMax, worldbeggedyoutovoteKerry, Sycamore, grannyhelen, churchylafemme, hope is all we have, defluxion10, joliberal, dnn, Tillie630, STOP George, whyvee, RebeccaG, kismet, dkmich, SadieB, bablhous, valadon, eztempo, sebastianguy99, BDA in VA, donailin, Gowrie Gal, leolabeth, paige, ExStr8, bloomer 101, tle, lilypew, CTPatriot, nape, Paul Goodman, PsychoSavannah, elkhunter, frandor55, Valtin, tomfool, drewfromct, LindaR, Jfriday, mojo workin, snootless, spectre7, jimreyn, aaraujo, lotlizard, Churchill, illyia, rb608, techno, ebgill, jilikins, Flippant, jct, E Man, Paddy999, omahaliberal, vilegrrl, dhfsfc, third Party please, tarheelblue, Keone Michaels, Pinko Elephant, Opakapaka, BeadLady, Ky DEM, martyc35, technomage, ccmask, bluebrain, DarkestHour, Sagebrush Bob, CF Perez, mcmom, ER Doc, MBNYC, BlueMississippi, GalaxieGal, spotDawa, lastamendment, shaharazade, Statusquomustgo, jjellin, crystal eyes, Picot verde, ZenTrainer, Tannen, eastmt, One Pissed Off Liberal, Digger8, oscarsmom, moosely2006, karmsy, lynmar, Ticonderoga, Matt Z, Twotone4truth, jimbobb, Sean Casey, dolphin777, Giodude, Midwesterners, stratocasterman, letsgetreal, Moderation, IrvineKeith, on the cusp, roycej, Fungible Chattel, gimbo, adrianrf, mconvente, abeincicero, MikePhoenix, Art Tric, calibpatriot, ghettoMuppet, Mr Stagger Lee, elwior, Rick Winrod, Greasy Grant, TomFromNJ, el vasco, ShempLugosi, temptxan, Rachel Griffiths, kyril, Sun spots, nokkonwud, DixieDishrag, less god more good, lenzy1000, allie123, Nica24, magicsister, revelwoodie, enzo, gsenski, shortgirl, ggwoman55, jedley, wv voice of reason, Pris from LA, rubyclaire, number nine dream, DontTaseMeBro, tnacn4pz, Discipline28, banjolele, dark daze, viet vet, wethepeople, makanda, eyeswideopen2008, dRefractor, MsConstrues, Mindmover, Shelley99, Mom in Maine, bbagley1, audiored, oc guy, haremoor, fernan47, northernlights, acromagic, astral66, Wings Like Eagles, Maori, ratmach, collardgreens, Hunter Huxley, charlieg, parse this, SolarAngel, Liberal Pagan, TNThorpe, awcomeon, p gorden lippy, David PA, Obamican08, The Jester, Abbadon777, LiveFreeorDier, Crabby Abbey, Capostrophe, JJC, ATFILLINOIS, MJHJTR888, calichristi, rangerteeple, mandapanda, Blue Liberty, SoonerG, addisnana, Johnny Q, WedtoReason, bushwhacked, BlueFranco, c liam, Rnedewa, naviline, LRLine, Devorah, docta puella, Rockpopple, Cottonwood, ebbet, schg, and by, Jazzenterprises, Zin in NY, North Dakota Democrat, backwardsinheels, QuestionThat, Zoe 28, nicethugbert, badaspie, Cintimcmomma, Moe Gamble, Radiogabs, 13037Deb, emmeka

    "They won't win until we give up" - Michael Moore

    by nyacker on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:45:16 PM PDT

  •  Hi Michael. That idiot Zucker is on MSNBC (8+ / 0-)

    right now touting "An American Carol." You should sue.

    Ah no, it's always just my luck to get/ One perfect rose

    by kat68 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:45:55 PM PDT

    •  I agree absolutely! (19+ / 0-)

      Michael, you're right on with this plan. For those rich folks, this would be painless. For taxpayers, it will be a killer, not to mention how Bush and his people are scaring us daily. I am so tired of STRESS FEST every gd day.

      Indeed, let's encourage the well heeled to pull themselves up by their platinum bootstraps. If we eat this so they can have the best of everything, we are NUTS.

      I watched a PBS show last night [POV series] on health care in America. One man was so afraid his insurance would get cancelled if he didn't return to work by a certain date that instead of letting his gangrenous foot heal another month, he instructed the doctor to cut off his foot. Different kind of boot straps for the rest of us, eh?

      Thank you, Michael. As always -- you are wise and wonderful.

      •  Fire in Neighbor's House requires action (0+ / 0-)

        Sadly though if your neighbors house catches on fire due to their own negligence it doesn't help to stand by and watch it burn if your house shares a common wall.

        The credit and equity markets impact all of us. If your bank doesn't have enough money to cover the losses on their sub-prime mortgages then they won't have the money to loan to you for a new car or to start a new business.

        Is it fair? of course not.. but the fire has started so the only question is how do we go about saving our house (not theirs).

        Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the enemy, but to win his friendship and understanding." -- 1958 MLK

        by Cascadia on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:56:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  HELL yes! (6+ / 0-)

      I'm for taxing the people responsible for this mess.

      -7.88/-4.41 The best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation. Jimmy Carter

      by Interceptor7 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:53:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  11. Throw the bums out. (31+ / 0-)

    Whether dem or republican. Politicians have stopped serving their constituents, and to repeat what is now an ancient slogan "I want my country back".

  •  Michael (12+ / 0-)

    made my calls want to thank you for all your good the Defazio plan of  th .25% transaction fee in play right now on the floor??anyone know??

  •  I generally like your plan (13+ / 0-)

    b) Like nearly every other democracy, charge a 0.25% tax on every stock transaction. This will raise more than $200 billion in a year.

    c) Because every stockholder is a patriotic American, stockholders will forgo receiving a dividend check for one quarter and instead this money will go the treasury to help pay for the bailout.

    I'm not sure that these are such a good idea. A flat fee on a stock transaction might be ok (e.g. $1 per transaction), but (b) will kill discount brokerages and will remove market liquidity. (c) will probably have unintended consequences as well, you're probably better off just taxing dividends or capital gains more.

    Most of the rest of this is a great idea, though.

    Thanks for all your efforts, Michael.

  •  Fannie was public to help give home loans (28+ / 0-)

    to more Americans. Then it was privatized.

    After years of increasing deregulation andcorruption as a privatized organization with federal connections it failed.

    It needs to return to its original form.

    "It's the planet, stupid."

    by FishOutofWater on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:48:14 PM PDT

  •  Thank You Michael Moore.. (19+ / 0-)

    Appreciate you join us today and please keep up the great work..! Rec'd and hopefully tip'd soon.

    Be thine own palace, or the world's thy jail. John Donne (1572-1631)

    by ebbinflo on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:48:22 PM PDT

  •  Exactly right. (25+ / 0-)

    Make the pigs that got us into this mess pay for their own party. I sure as hell wasn't invited, why do I need to foot the bill?

    Aux armes, citoyens.

    by MBNYC on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:49:02 PM PDT

  •  Why is Congress silent on accountability (34+ / 0-)

    APPOINT A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR TO CRIMINALLY INDICT ANYONE ON WALL STREET WHO KNOWINGLY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS COLLAPSE. Before any new money is expended, Congress must commit, by resolution, to criminally prosecute anyone who had anything to do with the attempted sacking of our economy. This means that anyone who committed insider trading, securities fraud or any action that helped bring about this collapse must go to jail. This Congress must call for a Special Prosecutor who will vigorously go after everyone who created the mess, and anyone else who attempts to scam the public in the future.

    Republicans : Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor

    by ctsteve on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:49:10 PM PDT

    •  How about including those that pressured (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      p gorden lippy, docta puella

      banks and other lending institutions to lower the qualifications needed for a loan? Let's get everyone that is responsible.

    •  Yea but (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Purple Hazer

      From what I can tell most of this was created by greed and the availability of everyone around to allow it to happen - again.  Being greedy or stupid isn't a crime - you can argue that it should be but it isn't.  If you want to prosecute someone for not living up their fiduciary responsibility or corporate responsibility then good luck with that.  No one will ever again take a risk, many risks are good and worth taking.  No one will ever try to innovate again, many innovations are good and worth working toward.  Try as you might this is not a legal issue - it is a moral issue.  Yes, there were probably some people who broke the law.  Yes prosecute them but be honest here, illegal activity didn't create this mess and we are not going to fix it with a Special Prosecutor.  

  •  The best plan I've read yet. (22+ / 0-)

    So, Michael -- when are you running for the senate?  I'll save my best canvassing shoes for you.

    "Fascism should rather be called corporatism, as it is the merging of government and corporate power." --Benito Mussolini

    by revelwoodie on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:49:20 PM PDT

  •  Insiders are making millions from the (18+ / 0-)

    ups and downs in this market... especially since they're all marked by government positions on the bailout, which change from day to day.

    Those who are able to control the passage of these bills (and their friends) are making tons of cash.

    Republican Congressmen and their minions should be double checked for insider trading.

    •  Match legislators and admin against Goldman-Sachs (0+ / 0-)

      and their PAC contributions. Big hedge-fund plays are involved, where they bet against the banks, investment firm bundlers,the insurance companies and home owners...they're the biggest winners for smallish bets.  

      Maybe Mr. Moore could ask Chelsea Clinton to explain some of this for us.

      When life gives you wingnuts, make wingnut butter!

      by antirove on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:31:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Many of these same points have been made by (19+ / 0-)

    others in particular re-instituting a STET tax and a 10% surtax on incomes over 1 million dollars. These types of plans have worked in the past so I don't know why they are not being considered this time. If the Dems can't get the vote or fear the Pretzeldimwhit will  veto it, then give a small rescue package (100-200 billion) to stabilize the market until the end of January when Obama will be president and there will be a greater number of Dems in both houses.

    The new republican slogan: privatizing profit / socializing loss.

    by ryan81 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:49:40 PM PDT

  •  I support your plan (12+ / 0-)

    "No welfare for you" Mr./Mrs. CEO
    Thank You.

  •  Agree in principle, in practice President Obama (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pris from LA, astral66

    will have to implement most of your populist reforms.  

    The problem is to avert a credit catastrophe now as emphasized by even progressive economists like Stiglitz, Krugman, Galbraith.

    Michael, have a look at this diary-I would really like to know what you think.

    What surrounds us therefore is a vast tapestry of lies, upon which we feed. Harold Pinter

    by dlcox1958 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:50:40 PM PDT

  •  Flight risk (31+ / 0-)

    I believe those rich Americans have largely already evacuated they money in their name from the United States and will follow that money if we try to get it back. I have no qualms about going after the money overseas, but they know how to hide it.

    There are no rich Americans. I believe the rich are stateless and will just pick up from one place and move to another, say Dubai, when the local situation becomes too much to their disliking.

  •  Why Is This Not On The Front Page? (n/t) (6+ / 0-)
  •  thank you Michael (19+ / 0-)

    When I tell people just HOW MUCH the income taxes for the wealthy and corporations have been rolled back since Reagan, their chins hit the floor.  The 10% surtax, the stock tax, are all just returning to a more sensible PROGRESSIVE income tax system that should never have been gutted starting with Ronald Reagan.

    louise 'hussein' to you! proud donor to "White Dudes for Obama" Endorsed 11/1/07 and never looked back!

    by louisev on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:52:41 PM PDT

  •  Ah if we only lived in a absolute monarchy (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pd, bustacap, Corwin Weber, Marcion, astral66

    Then this might happen, but since we don't it won't.

    In the choice between changing ones mind and proving there's no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.

    by jsfox on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:53:08 PM PDT

  •  Thank you Michael! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, two roads, viet vet, astral66

    You are a sane voice in a sea of chaos.

    Georgie Porgie Puddin Pie
    All he could ever do was lie.
    When the kids came out to play
    Georgie had planted landmines.

    by jetskreemr on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:53:12 PM PDT

  •  If only we lived in michaelmooreland. (15+ / 0-)

    Kicinich proposed something similar. But the problem is alot of those rich 400 are in congress.

  •  Micheal Moore (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, astral66, Johnny Q

    ... for President.

    We shall fight them on the internets. We shall fight in the Starbucks, and in the streets, we shall fight them on the Hill. We shall never surrender!

    by bhlogger on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:55:11 PM PDT

    •  Nah. Always good to have someone *outside* (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril, gsenski

      the power structure willing to dig through stuff to figure out what's going wrong, how people are hurting, and what might help fix it.

      Incomplete list of McNames in profile. Personal favorites include McSogynist, McNopoly, and McThuselah, and McWorse.

      by Cassandra Waites on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:28:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hey, the Repubs insist that our greatest prez (0+ / 0-)

      … was an actor. So wouldn't a filmmaker in the WH be even better by a wide margin? Directing films on a budget is a complex, multi-faceted process and you have to know how to inspire and coördinate a team made up of people of many diverse specialties and talents.

      Besides, think of the documentary footage MM's presidential library would be filled with. History in the making, featuring all the major figures as themselves! In comparison, Nixon's secret taping system was nothing, nothing I tell you!

      See the Dutch children's chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen live October 11 in the Amsterdam ArenA!

      by lotlizard on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 12:34:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Lets just eat the richest 400. (5+ / 0-)

    Cut them up into little tiny pieces with an AX !!

    Create an 80% Estate tax over 1 Billion...

    Have our cake and eat it to !!

    Peace Sells... But Who's Buy'n

    by peacemon on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:55:12 PM PDT

  •  Well, all I can say is... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mnguy66, astral66

    ...that I disagree with about 80% of what you said.

    I'll leave it at that.

  •  Barack is Speaking on the Senate Floor (9+ / 0-)

    right now. Just lettin' ya know.

    Joe Biden: Get up! Al Gore: Pray, and use your feet! Harriet Tubman: Keep going!

    by JG in MD on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:58:56 PM PDT

  •  The voice of sanity and reason! (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, tunney, two roads, astral66, Johnny Q

    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction." --Blaise Pascal

    by lyvwyr101 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:59:00 PM PDT

  •  When big money can't control Washington (15+ / 0-)

    then decisions will be made in the people's interest.

    Until then we only have outsiders like Michael to speak for us.  

    Cut off the special interest contributions and then our elected officials will listen, but for now their ears are stuffed with money.

    "So much time and so little to do. Wait a minute. Strike that. Reverse it."- Willie Wonka

    by crystal eyes on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:01:14 PM PDT

  •  Good Post Michael... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ctsteve, PsychoSavannah, Zydekos

    Regarding the Corporate Tax.

    it's 2/3 of American companies and foreign companies that pay no tax.

    How about an Alternative Minimum Tax for Corporations of 20%?

    And, tax all those making more than $250,000 a 20% Alternative Minimum Tax on Gross Income - no deductions.

    It seems that the more I've made in my career, the less I pay as a percentage of Gross Income.

    If we went to a system of real, fair flat tax: say 15% on all income over $35,000, with no deductions, no exceptions, on men, women, children, corporations, churches, trusts, etc., we would all be just fine.

    Faith is not believing something which our intelligence denies. Faith is the resolve to place the highest meaning on the facts which we observe.

    by mondaymedia on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:01:37 PM PDT

  •  I like most of it, and would be happy if the (3+ / 0-)

    actual solution that is finally brougt forward included any of it.

    That being said...

    I don't think it will.

  •  Exactly (18+ / 0-)

    NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD BE PAID MORE THAN 40 TIMES THEIR AVERAGE EMPLOYEE, AND NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD RECEIVE ANY KIND OF "PARACHUTE" OTHER THAN THE VERY GENEROUS SALARY HE OR SHE MADE WHILE WORKING FOR THE COMPANY. In 1980, the average American CEO made 45 times what their employees made. By 2003, they were making 254 times what their workers made. After 8 years of Bush, they now make over 400 times what their average employee makes. How this can happen at publicly held companies is beyond reason. In Britain, the average CEO makes 28 times what their average employee makes. In Japan, it's only 17 times! The last I heard, the CEO of Toyota was living the high life in Tokyo. How does he do it on so little money? Seriously, this is an outrage. We have created the mess we're in by letting the people at the top become bloated beyond belief with millions of dollars. This has to stop. Not only should no executive who receives help out of this mess profit from it, but any executive who was in charge of running his company into the ground should be fired before the company receives any help.

    Can everyone agree that pay for the top executive has gotten ridiculous?  I think you have to be one greedy bastard not to agree that something has to done about this situation ... 400 times the lowest worker is the definition of  greed.. Excellent idea..

    Be thine own palace, or the world's thy jail. John Donne (1572-1631)

    by ebbinflo on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:02:49 PM PDT

    •  Beyond that, it really doesn't limit the exec $$. (8+ / 0-)

      If Mr. CEO wants X dollars a year, he just had to enable the raising of the average overall company salary to a level that lets him make that much. Can't manage that? Sorry, then obviously he isn't worth X dollars a year to the company.

      (Although personally, I'd either relate it to the lowest full-time compensation in the company - see the scramble to raise the min wage if that happens! - or relate the CEO compensation to either a ratio of the average or lowest wage, as a whichever-is-lowest deal.)

      Incomplete list of McNames in profile. Personal favorites include McSogynist, McNopoly, and McThuselah, and McWorse.

      by Cassandra Waites on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:24:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And actually, in addition, why talk averages? (11+ / 0-)

        Forget mean company income. Let's talk median.

        Incomplete list of McNames in profile. Personal favorites include McSogynist, McNopoly, and McThuselah, and McWorse.

        by Cassandra Waites on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:25:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Absolutely (8+ / 0-)

          Either use the median, or use the lowest-paid worker. The lowest pay and highest pay in any given company can't differ by more than a factor of...oh, let's say 50. Or the median and maximum can't differ by a factor of more than 40. Any pay above that threshold (including bonuses, benefits, and tangible items of value) gets taxed at 100%.

          During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

          by kyril on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:31:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  unintended consequences (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lotlizard, golconda2

        Under your proposal, all low wage earners will be dropped from full time to part time status so Mr. CEO. can up his pay, and they also lose health insurance if they had it.   So, be very careful about the use of "full-time".   Even if you leave that out and use wages, Mr. CEO can fire the janitors (and many others) and bring in a subcontractor or temp agency.   And ship other jobs overseas.

        On the other hand, if you cap CEO salary based on number of US employees for large corporations, you might encourage the reverse practices - but what do you do about multinationals?
        And, they will game the system by merging companies.

        On a bright note CEO pay ratios have declined since 2000 (when the ratio was 525:1), according to the AFLCIO.

        In the US, CEO is usually chairman of the board - and the board sets CEO salary.   In Europe, there are two separate boards to minimize concentration of power.

        -6.25, -6.36 Worst. President. Dictator. Ever.

        by whitis on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 06:52:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah and while we're at it, let's limit income... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ebbinflo, drewfromct, Sanuk, dennisl

      ...for professional athletes and TV, film, and music performers.  We the People pay those salaries, indirectly, as much as we pay the top C-level execs via cost of goods and services. I mean, you can't selectively limit incomes -- do one class and you've got to do them all!

      No Way, No How, No McCain-Palin.

      by Larry Bailey on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:37:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The executive compensation system is feudalism, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      … plain and simple. It's a "winner take all" system where people at the top of the pyramid literally live like kings and queens, while everyone else is an indentured servant.

      See the Dutch children's chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen live October 11 in the Amsterdam ArenA!

      by lotlizard on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 12:40:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Um. I'm with Michael. nt (9+ / 0-)
  •  the Democrats will never go for this sadly (10+ / 0-)

    god forbid they are seen supporting socialist ideas or redistribution. They will take the money from their constituents and give it to the richest and most powerful, just to show where their loyalties lie and don't shift their money completely to the Republican coffers.

    Law is a light which in different countries attracts to it different species of blind insects. Nietzsche

    by Marcion on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:04:21 PM PDT

    •  Democrats, like Republicans, seem okay (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      golconda2, Johnny Q

      with redistributing wealth upward. It's the idea of spreading a little around at the bottom that seems to make them queasy.

    •  Who are these "they wont do it ever people" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Don't you see the HUGE opputunity with this Economic downturn, to push the Bottom up theory.

      This is what makes progressive such wimps "It will never happen ... boo hoo"

      Make it happen.

      •  the only way it would happen (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Is if progressives abandoned the Democratic Party and started a much bolder party to the left of this stinking carcass. The Democratic Party, like a fly trap, exists to attract progressives, trap progressive ideas and make sure they are never implemented.

        Law is a light which in different countries attracts to it different species of blind insects. Nietzsche

        by Marcion on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:12:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I like the part (11+ / 0-)

    about putting the motherfucking thieves in jail.

  •  #6 -- yes, yes, yes, yes (7+ / 0-)


    "We've done the impossible and that makes us mighty."

    by Dissento on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:13:28 PM PDT

  •  Visions of swastikas.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...plans for everyone.

    All I wanted was a Pepsi....

    by marcim on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:13:35 PM PDT

  •  Good stuff Mike (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yuriwho, kyril, tunney, Johnny Q

    This bailout is lousy in the way its structured.
    I hope they do something for the middle class. (If it still can be called that.)

  •  Does it strike anyone else as curious (21+ / 0-)

    that the $700BN in wealth that was accumulated by the uber-rich is the exact same amount that the taxpayer is being asked to subsidize in this bailout. What they actually did was siphon the nations wealth in this "Orgy of Money" Ponzi scheme and are trying to perpetrate the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class in history.

    "See you at the Debates; Bitches"

    by MrDeadeye2U on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:14:40 PM PDT

  •  No Golden Parachutes! Tax the rich! (6+ / 0-)

    It amazes me how greedy people are

    "lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed"

    by yuriwho on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:16:03 PM PDT

  •  So when can you run for Senate? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yuriwho, Picot verde, lisastar, kyril, tunney

    Jesus, this mess. Thank you for some good sense in the middle of it. And something that I think a lot of Republicans and conservatives could also agree with - at least up until "People's Bank" of course.

    "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton

    by jbeach on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:16:22 PM PDT

  •  Lookin' out for the "least of these" as usual. (5+ / 0-)

    Thanks Mike.  We need you out there.

    "If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -James Madison

    by JJC on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:18:01 PM PDT

  •  Good time to re-post: (21+ / 0-)

    Martin Eccles, FDR's Chairman of the Fed, on how the unequal distribution of wealth contributed to the Great Depression:

    As mass production has to be accompanied by mass consumption, mass consumption, in turn, implies a distribution of wealth -- not of existing wealth, but of wealth as it is currently produced -- to provide men with buying power equal to the amount of goods and services offered by the nation's economic machinery.

    Instead of achieving that kind of distribution, a giant suction pump had by 1929-30 drawn into a few hands an increasing portion of currently produced wealth. This served them as capital accumulations. But by taking purchasing power out of the hands of mass consumers, the savers denied to themselves the kind of effective demand for their products that would justify a reinvestment of their capital accumulations in new plants. In consequence, as in a poker game where the chips were concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the other fellows could stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit ran out, the game stopped.

    We've been here before, folks.  Great post, Michael!

    Never give up! Never surrender!

    by oscarsmom on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:18:04 PM PDT

  •  Hell yes! (5+ / 0-)

    and amen to every single one of your prescriptions.

    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

    by kyril on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:18:58 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Michael (8+ / 0-)

    I recently re-watched certainly puts things in perspective. Where are our priorities? What do we value? What kind of life could we have?

    I support Barack America and his trusted sidekick Joe Delaware! -Socratic

    by valadon on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:19:03 PM PDT

  •  This is already a done deal. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, ggwoman55

    What can be done at this point? What tools other then voting for the lesser of two evils have the American people? Other then leaving the country, or not paying our taxes do we really have? I am very interested in some answers if anybody's got them. This is just another in a long line of dismantling our country. As my Republican stock trader neighbor just said across the fence, "I'm tired, really tired."

  •  My bank keeps sending me credit cards (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lisa, john07801, kyril

    And I keep taking the scissors to 'em. I agree with most all of the points but no Republican ever will.

    IF we get Obama elected and get a House/Senate majority... it might fly. But undoing the still-prevalent Reagan mindset that's been floating around in this country for thirty years is going to be a damn tough sell.

    I do especially like the Sweden plan, though!

    This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

    by Snud on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:22:20 PM PDT

  •  I am all for these ideas to be included (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    larryrant, kyril, two roads

    in Thurday's House plan negotiations.  Screw the Paulsen bill that the Senate will likely pass tonight!

    The House of Reps. needs to immediately spout a backbone.  If not, in 5 weeks they will be looking for jobs (with their lobbyists I'm sure!)

    Barack Obama can inspire Americans to get involved!

    by davekro on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:22:24 PM PDT

  •  Wow! I need a break (3+ / 0-)

    after reading this. How about a little entertainment from Sarah Heath Palin?

  •  Five houses instead of seven? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, kyril, two roads

    That is so cruel, Mike! It's not their fault that their rich.

  •  Fantastic! (12+ / 0-)

    This is the letter I wrote my senator:

    Please read the newly proposed Wall Street bailout bill before you cast your vote. Require that the bill be public for at least 72 hours!

    There are all too many disastrous pieces of legislation being passed because congress does not take enough time to read and comprehend what they are voting on.  Too many loopholes are slipped in.  To many amendments that are against the American people's interest are forced through without question.  This has to stop.  The American people believe this is nothing more than a "Reverse Robin Hood Scandal."  The American people believe our wealth is being robbed and given to the Wall Street Banking and Federal Reserve criminals, the same people who caused this disaster.  History Repeats Itself!  Just like in the 1929 crash, the recent 630 Billion dollar cash injection into the economy expanded the money supply which will cause high inflation and they still want 700 Billion more!  Wages never keep up with inflation and so this crisis will only get worse!  What follows is a contraction of the money supply which will cause the depression this bill seeks to stave off.


    If this bill does not completely prevent the reckless and  irresponsible behavior of the Wall Street Banking and Federal Reserve criminals from ever happening again, vote NO.  The same Wall Street Banking and Federal Reserve criminals responsible for this economic disaster are advising congress on how to fix the economy.  DO NOT EVER TRUST THEM!  They only have selfish motives and do not care about the American people!  Please, seek guidance from economic experts who are not in any way involved in this debacle!

    If this Wall Street bailout bill does not punish those who are responsible, vote NO! Start criminal investigations, NOW!  You cannot pass a bill to bail out these people if you do not know who is responsible!

    If this bailout does not remove all rewards for the Wall Street Banking and Federal Reserve criminals who are responsible for this economic disaster, vote NO!

    Do NOT allow loopholes for these Wall Street Banking and Federal Reserve criminals to exploit!

    You must require Wall Street and the Federal Reserve to own their responsibility in creating this disaster.  They must be held accountable and be forced to contribute to any rescue plan!

    Time, as a coordinate measure, is sometimes confused with the perception of time. -- Ham08

    by Ham08 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:25:21 PM PDT

  •  This is the law that needs passed,awesome. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, two roads, Johnny Q
  •  in our dreams (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RebeccaG, kyril, two roads

    Hope you will be around after Obama's is elected Michael. It's not gonna be easy.

    But thanks to an American hero.

    If we cannot elect this man, we don't deserve him.

    by lisastar on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:25:50 PM PDT

  •  The Democrats will SO go for an equity plan! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    larryrant, kyril, Johnny Q

    If the democrats get barked at by a flood of people emailing and saying do a deal that is FAIR and get equity-well, they want to be elected right?, this is all about CHANGE, right?

  •  Love the plan..... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slatsg, kyril, SolarAngel if we can just get the people that vote on such things to listen.  I'm confident in my representative, (DeFazio) and less confident about one of my senators.  (Wyden.  He's unreliable at best.)  The other (Smith) is a lost cause.

    Personally I think that these people should take whatever plan we need to fix the problem and be happy that we aren't using the traditional means of dealing with people who have done what they've done.  (Given that it usually involves a double-tap to the back of the head, or a heavy falling blade..... they should consider themselves fortunate to just lose their profits.)

  •  Let us liquidate our 401Ks without penalty! (6+ / 0-)

    I wrote this diary some time back. I've been trying to pimp the idea for over a week. It's a good idea:

       Here's a Main Street solution: Why not change the rules for 401K retirement accounts to allow individuals to liquidate all or part of their retirement holdings without penalty, as long as the money is transferred to their mortgage holder to pay down principal on their home. The money should also be available to help individuals refinance out of dangerous variable interest rate HELoC (Home Equity Lines of Credit) and ARM loans.

       In each case, if the homeowner has enough funds saved in his or her 401K to offset their negative equity stake and/or get out from under a risky loan, the homeowner wins and the mortgage banks win. Society wins. Also, no public funds would have been used. And US citizens wouldn't be held responsible for paying off a bunch of Wall Street parasites who lost everything due to their irresponsible profligacy. Thus, a moral hazard for the rich would not - this time, at least - have been promoted as U.S. fiscal policy. Just an idea.

    "This is the twenty-first century. Nations don't just go invading other countries." --John McCain, said without a hint of irony.

    by maynard on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:28:19 PM PDT

  •  All in all, a good plan MM....BUT, about #3... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, Sanuk, kyril, artmartin

    You propose...

    BAIL OUT THE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR HOMES...There are 1.3 million homes in foreclosure right now...instead of giving the money to the banks as a gift, pay down each of these mortgages by $100,000. Force the banks to renegotiate the mortgage so the homeowner can pay on its current value...And in return for the $100K paydown on the existing mortgage, the government gets to share in the holding of the mortgage so that it can get some of its money back.

    Really confusing idea. You say "pay down each of these mortgages by $100,000" AND "force the banks to renegotiate" them AND "the government gets to share in the holding of the mortgage".  So, who gets the $100,000? Sounds like it's the homeowner/mortgagee. (And good luck selling that to everyone who has managed to pay a mortgage to term.) And if it is the homeowner, then the government gets a $100K lien on the home?  Weird stuff Michael.

    No Way, No How, No McCain-Palin.

    by Larry Bailey on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:31:46 PM PDT

    •  Gvmt gets junior mortgage for $100k, and lowers (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Johnny Q

      primary mortgagee's lien by $100k.  What's so confusing about that?  

      The distressed mortgage (primary mortgage) now has a lower PITI.  The Government has a security interest and is not charging the homeowner anything.

      What's so weird about that?

      •  I'm still confused on this (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Economics isn't my thing - at all.

        Does the $100k get repaid ever?  I've made all my payments, can I get my mortgage reduced too if the $100k just disappears?

        Please don't beat me, I admit, I'm a dunce in this field.

      •  That's not what MM said. (0+ / 0-)

        MM wasn't thinking of PITIs and junior mortgages, at least I don't think he was -- but maybe you can read between his lines better than I can.

        No Way, No How, No McCain-Palin.

        by Larry Bailey on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:09:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  government second mortgage (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lotlizard, wa ma

        Ok, lets assume inflation is 0% and house appreciation is 0% relative to inflation (which historically has been the case excluding bubbles).   Now, suppose you got a $200,000 mortgage on a house that was really worth $100,000.   The government gives you a deffered second mortgage for $100K reducing your original mortgage to $100K.

        You pay off the first mortgage for 30 years.   At the end of that time, you have $0 in equity in your house.   In a sense, you have been transformed from a buyer into a renter.  Presumably, then, your deferred mortgage kicks in.  If it was charging interest, you are back up to a $200K mortgage, if not, the government was taking a big hit as well as tying up cash.

        Now, lets say tomorrow you get lose old job and get a new one that requires moving.  You need to sell your house and buy (or rent another).  So you put it on the market.    But to sell it, you need $100K to pay off the first mortgage and $100K to pay of the second.     So, you have to find someone who will pay $200K for a $100K house.   You are trapped.  

        Now, you get foreclosed upon.   House is sold for $100K, first mortgage is paid off, second mortgage isn't.   Either the government takes a bath, or you still owe $100K - or both.

        The house is never going to get its value back, except in inflated dollars or another bubble as bad as this one, because the house was never worth what you paid for it and never will be in todays dollars.   never.

        -6.25, -6.36 Worst. President. Dictator. Ever.

        by whitis on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:33:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I understand (0+ / 0-)

          The Gov't takes a bath whether it is Paulsons plan or this one if the house value doesn't go up.  If I understand Moore correctly, the Gov't mortgage isn't needing to be repaid; there is no note;  it's just the mortgage;  a security.

          •  then it isn't really a security (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            It is just a bailout.   So, don't use terms which implies that the government gets its money back except in unusual circumstances, without even qualifying it.

            And it is still a bailout for people who don't deserve it.
            People who bought houses that weren't worth what they paid for them with loans at variable interest rates they wouldn't be able to afford are part of the problem.

            What about those of us who don't own homes that turned down those loans because we knew it wouldn't work?   Or weren't even eligible?  Why do they get to keep a house and we not only don't get a house but have to pay for theirs?   Why should we be bailing out people who chose to listen to comforting lies while ignoring people telling the inconvenient truths.  Some of us were even spreading those inconvenient truths.   It wasn't just ignorance, it was willful ignorance.  Hell, maybe the government should take the house and rent them a room or take two houses and stuff the families into one.   The victims of the housing bubble were the people who couldn't afford to buy (or even rent) a house, not the people who bought one they couldn't afford.
            The rest of us paid higher rents as a result.   And got looked down on by those who "owned" a house for not keeping up with the Joneses.  Those who used second mortgages for frivolous expenses were worse.   And bailing them out could interfere with the bubble deflating, which it still hasn't finished doing.

            We may need some form of bailout, but bailing out those who bought during the bubble is still a bailout for people who were part of the problem even if not the worst part.  If they get a reduced mortgage, they should still owe the government something.

            Maybe we can have a real second mortgage with deferred payments if you can prove you can't pay, even taking in a renter.   And we can decide how much, if any, of it to forgive later after doing a real analysis.

            -6.25, -6.36 Worst. President. Dictator. Ever.

            by whitis on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:26:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you Mr. Moor. But I'm afraid the deal (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    golconda2, kyril, Interceptor7

    is done and this Bill is very nearly a reality.

    What I would like to hear is how do we intend to make sure hat this Bill is revised and institutions are created solely for the protection of the American People once a new president takes the helm.

    How do we convince he new president to create a people's bank, to strengthen regulation, deconstruct mega bank such as Citi group/Wachovia for instance or BAnk of America/Meryl Lynch?
    How to insure the introduction of a tax on stock transactions or re-institute the death tax?

    How do we convince Obama, god willing, to have the courage of his convictions and do the right thing?

    John McCain "Beware the terrible simplifiers" Jacob Burckhardt, Historian

    by notquitedelilah on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:31:58 PM PDT

  •  I knew Sunday night it was bogus (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    larryrant, kyril, two roads

    The faux media pretending to believe what everybody was saying.  I have seen this fake out before, I just can't remember which incident.  My guess it will pass this time and then Chimpnut will veto it.  He will then say, see I told you Democrats were tax and spenders.  I just don't get it.  It is either a crisis or it's not.  If it was truly a crisis the market would continue to fall.  They propped it up for the Jewish Holidays.  How nice.  Either way we will be screwed as always.  Somehow this will end up a plus for Republican's.  Always does.

    The status quo sucks--George Carlin

    by Paddy999 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:33:38 PM PDT

  •  I'll note that with Senior Preferred Shares ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    .... with strong enough conditions on firms not meeting their dividend, the survivors will be paying for their own bail-out, so it would only be a portion that would have to be extracted by a levy.

    Say, an extra 10% on capital gains for those with incomes over $250,000, until the balance is paid off.

  •  This is the biggest POS I have ever read (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larry Bailey, pinkbunny

    Um Hello if people can't pay their mortgages how are they going to pay the property taxes on their houses? This is so dumb and so stupid I am in shock.

    Sorry I have to run to the Senate floor to abolish torture.

    by bten on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:34:38 PM PDT

  •  HELL YEAH! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, two roads, Johnny Q

    Excellent proposals.  I particularly like 7 and 10.  Way to go, Michael.

    I am become Man, the destroyer of worlds

    by tle on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:38:18 PM PDT

  •  Snark aside, is this a reposted diary or a rework (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larry Bailey, Rick in Oz

    ... of a previous diary?  Because I got the oddest sense of deja vu while reading it.

    i am jack's complete lack of surprise -- fight club

    by bustacap on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:38:29 PM PDT

  •  Where was oversite in 2007? And where are the (11+ / 0-)

    procecutions? Plenty of people knew what was happening and it seems they decided to just to bet against the market.

    New York Sues Firm for Rigging Home Appraisals

    November 1, 2007 · New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo has initiated a lawsuit against a real estate appraisal unit of the Fortune 500 company First American Corp. He says the appraiser colluded with Washington Mutual, one of the largest savings and loan companies, to inflate home values.


    Cuomo says that during the housing boom,
    "We believe this is a problem all across the industry," he says. "We believe the federal government has not been effective at regulating it. We believe it has serious consequences long-term."

    New York Sues Firm for Rigging Home Appraisals

    Pressure applied

    In April 2006, EA began providing appraisal services for WaMu, which became EA’s biggest client. Within weeks, WaMu began complaining to EA that its appraisals were not high enough. WaMu pressured EA to employ exclusively a new panel of appraisers that WaMu hand-selected as "Proven Appraisers."

    This set of appraisers was chosen by WaMu specifically because they inflated property appraisals, the suit alleges. WaMu profited from these higher appraisals because they could close more home loans, at greater values. Over the course of their relationship, between April 2006 and October 2007, EA provided approximately Attorney General Cuomo’s investigation uncovered a series of e-mails between executives at EA, First American, and WaMu that he said show EA officials were willingly violating state and federal appraisal independence regulations to comply with WaMu’s demands:

    • On February 22, 2007, in response to a description of the WaMu "Proven Appraiser" program as one in which "we will now assign all Wamu’s work to Wamu’s ‘Proven Appraisers’... (and) Performance ratings to retain position as a Wamu Proven Appraiser will be based on how many come in on value," eAppraiseIT’s president told senior executives at First American: "we have agreed to roll over and just do it..."

    • On April 4, 2007, eAppraiseIT’s executive vice president stated in an e-mail to First American: "we as an AMC (Appraisal Management Company} need to retain our independence from the lender or it will look like collusion... eAppraiseIT is clearly being directed who to select. The reasoning... is bogus for many reasons including the most obvious – the proven appraisers bring in the values."

    • On April 17, 2007, eAppraiseIT’s president wrote an e-mail to First American explaining why its conduct was illegal: "We view this as a violation of the OCC, OTS, FDIC and USPAP influencing regulation."

    E-mail evidence also shows that WaMu pressured EA to inflate appraisals as a condition for doing future business together:

    On September 27, 2006, First American’s vice chairman reported that a WaMu executive told him: "if the appraisal issues are resolved and things are working well he would welcome conversations about expanding our relationship..."

    New York Sues WaMu and its Appraisers
    Companies conspired to inflate appraisals, suit charges

    And lastly:

    Ohio Sues Real Estate Firms for Pressuring Appraisers

    Ohio, the state with the third highest number of foreclosures, sued 10 real estate companies for improperly pressuring appraisers to inflate home values.

    The companies, based in Ohio, California, Arizona and New York, are accused of setting specific estimated values on properties and communicating a desired price to appraisers, according to the lawsuits filed by Attorney General Marc Dann today. In Ohio, it's illegal to influence an appraiser. Those sued include seven mortgage brokers, two lenders and an appraiser.

    Ohio Sues Real Estate Firms for Pressuring Appraisers

    •  Very informative, thanks. It's a reminder (0+ / 0-)

      … too that the rating agencies played a big role in the MBS and CDO scams, by rubber-stamping dodgy bundles and derivatives as AAA investment-grade securities when they were nothing of the kind.

      See the Dutch children's chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen live October 11 in the Amsterdam ArenA!

      by lotlizard on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 01:14:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks Mike - "It's the Foreclosures, Stupid" - (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Data Pimp, two roads, Interceptor7

    Man, I wish there was a leader saying the very obvious things you say here.

    It's like paying a plumber

    This bailout is well named -- it's just like paying a premium for a plumber to bail out a flood, without fixing any of the leaks causing it!

    I just diaried about it.

    And yesterday Democracy Now (follow the link) did an excellent program with people who know how to solve this problem, and it costs less than what the politicians are proposing.

    This is a huge bipartisan scam.

  •  This is Absolutely do we (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    unclejohn, two roads

    pass it. Can we get a petition going and get this to the senate and house ASAP?

  •  I love all of it but.. (4+ / 0-)

    no one in Washington has the balls to get it passed.
    Too bad for us.

    -7.88/-4.41 The best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation. Jimmy Carter

    by Interceptor7 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:45:07 PM PDT

  •  I like you Mr Moore, but alot of this is wrong (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pd, Sanuk, artmartin, coelomate

    Mr moore,

    I like you.  I usually like your politics.  With a camera, you can illustrate a social problem beautifully.  However, I have to disagree with quite a bit of the particulars in your plan.

    1.)  A special prosecutor is fine, but the idea about all this is, is that most of this stuff was legal.  It wasn't individuals that broke the law, the law was simply broken.  It wont fix anything.

    2.)  The rich have to pay for their own bailout.  It is a great soundbite.  But like most great soundbites, it makes for poor public policy.  The rich are better able to withstand the fallout of a collapse of our banking and credit system.  Ordinary folks like me, can ill afford this.  We are all bound up in this mess together.  We can change policy all we'd like after this mess is past, but until then, lets focus on getting past this immediate crisis.

    3.)  I agree that we should be helping people with their mortgages and such.  But it is a different issue.  It is more of the fundamental problem, it must be addressed seperately.

    4.)  Again, a great soundbite, but bad policy.  I have no problem with it in theory, but you are talking about basically nationalizing the entire financial services, banking, and credit industries.  Free markets are not the enemy, it is free markets left to their own devices that are.  Regulation, not nationalization.

    5.)  I wholeheartedly endorse this section.  First and foremost, we must re-institute Glass-Steagal, the basic provision that opened the floodgate.  Commercial and Investment banks must be separated. It is only the first step, but thoughtful and rational regulation actually helps markets and helps people.

    6.)  Its a nice idea, but first, lets get past this mess.  This goes back to basic regulation and the FTC, but again, that is a different issue for another day.

    7.)  Great idea, but there are more intelligent ways of making this happen.  Instead, maybe force companies to compensate executives based on a 5 or 10 year rolling average of profiability.  Alot of this mess was caused by short-term planning with the goal of temporarily inflating a stocks value.  There is a diference between profit and wealth.  Lets encourage companies to create wealth and not profits.  

    8.)  Interesting idea, I am not well read enough to make an informed judgement on this idea.  Points for originality.

    9.)  Yes and no.  People should take a breath and think rationally here.  But the sky is starting to fall.  Action is necessary.

    10.)  This is also a very interesting idea. Lets explore it more after the election with Pres Obama and 61 seats in the Senate

    •  Lets explore that latter (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, viet vet, Johnny Q

      its a line I have heard on CNBC quite a bit this week.

      When it comes to regulations, and stoping the criminal acts on Wall street, its lets get back to you on that.

      But we have the political capital now, lets use it.

      I promise you that if we have the explore that later ... it will never be explored.

      For those who think Obama is going to go after the crooks, forget it, he is funded by them.

  •  10 point plan makes sense (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    two roads, Johnny Q

    Yes x 10. The fear factor has been hard to cut through. Accoutabilty so simple yet so complex. Still can't believe that first "sky is falling"  proposal.

  •  Better Suggestion (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sgere, dennisl

    Nader supporter Moore should accept responsibility for the crisis.

  •  "If it's too big to fail, it's too big to exist" (7+ / 0-)

    What a brilliant way of explaining that.  This was a great post.  

    You could even have gotten away with plugging Slacker Nation...

  •  IF IT'S TOO BIG TO FAIL, (7+ / 0-)

    I totally agree on that one.

    They have not done these awful things because they are bad conservatives; they have done them because they are good conservatives. -- Thomas Frank

    by sagra on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:53:05 PM PDT

  •  Michael Moore hates children (0+ / 0-)

    So does anyone who disagrees with Pelosi-Paulson-Dodd-Schumer.

    You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

  •  Michael you are a bit wrong on a few issues (7+ / 0-)

    Like forgoing dividens for a quater, not every stock holder is a millionair alot of retirees live on those dividends.

    Not every one of the 400 richest made their money on the stock market, if i made my money building a real company with real jobs, say microsoft, why should I be singles out to pay for Wall Streets fuck up.

    I do like number 1 though, I would include short sellers who set out to distroy companies, just to make money.

    Sarah Palin Proud Socialist

    by Bloke on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:54:47 PM PDT

    •  if you are close to, or past retirement (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      You aren't supposed to be invested in stocks or other principle at risk/uncertain interest investments.    That is what the good financial advice has always been, though there may have been a lot of charlatan financial advisors saying otherwise.   And there may be people who had insufficient retirement money who tried to delay disaster by going with investments that in the short term paid higher yields.

      And Microsoft is not a real company, they are crooks.

      -6.25, -6.36 Worst. President. Dictator. Ever.

      by whitis on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:39:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Where do you think defined benefit pension (0+ / 0-)

        plans invest money?  Calpers (California public employee pension plan) is one of the biggest investors in the country: real estate, stocks and bonds.  and yes some individual's private pensions too.  Those few defined benefit plans that remain have significant investments in stocks.  There are some working people who have small stock investments, they are not rich, just people trying to save a little for things like the kids collage education.

        Last time I checked Microsoft was a real company, that produced real products.  You may not like their business ethics and they have acted in a monopolistic fashion on several occasions however, there are people who made money through companies such as microsoft not through trading derivatives, just as it is unfair to ask the rest of us to bail out Wall Street bankers so to it is unfair to single out those who make money legitimately.

        Sarah Palin Proud Socialist

        by Bloke on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:17:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  they have pooled assets (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          They aren't 100% in stocks and they don't have 100% of the enrollees on retirement at any time.    
          Suppose 50% of enrollees are not retired or close to retirement.   Then they can invest 50% in stocks thus effectively following the age-old advice for individuals not to be reliant on stocks near or after retirement.   Just as an individual can let some of their money ride on their stock market when they are young and can wait out the losses, a pooled retirement plan can do that on their behalf.

          Microsoft's "real products" are crap forced on people through anti-trust violations.  If you are invested in microsoft, your dividends are not legitimate.  period.   Microsoft escaped anti-trust action when bush was elected.  Their stock rose 4.3% shortly after the supremes gave bush the election on speculation that that was the end of the anti-trust suit.    And don't forget that microsoft bought one of the TV-news networks.   They are one of the owners of the corporate media.  They own politicians on both sides of the aisle.  They had Ralph Reed on retainer ($20,000/month - arranged by Jack Abramoff  (not to mention $30,000/month from enron)), as well as a number of other Bush aides, during the 2000 and 2004 elections.  Microsoft contributed $6.1 million in the 2000 election, mostly to republicans.  They donated $25,000 to South Carolina Attorney General Charles Condon's re-election - 3 weeks later, they dropped out of the anti-trust suit.  

          -6.25, -6.36 Worst. President. Dictator. Ever.

          by whitis on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:31:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thank you! Your perspective is refreshing. (0+ / 0-)

            You're stating the unvarnished truth about how and why the WDE-43 DOJ pulled Microsoft's chestnuts out of the fire after the company had already lost the anti-trust case under the Clinton DOJ.

            Let us speak the truth without pulling any punches, as is only appropriate at this moment if this is the national and world crisis people say it is.

            (Note on "WDE-43": WD-40 loosens nuts.
            WDE-43 puts the loose nuts in the White House.)

            See the Dutch children's chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen live October 11 in the Amsterdam ArenA!

            by lotlizard on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 01:26:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  my favorite part: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    antirove, two roads, Johnny Q


    -7.88/-4.41 The best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation. Jimmy Carter

    by Interceptor7 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:55:29 PM PDT

  •  #6 Where are the Trust Busters? (8+ / 0-)

    Why is no one else talking about anti trust legislation?

    All the regional banks are gone. In the past 15 years all of my credit cards have become either Citibank or Chase.

    The same is true in the oil industry. Vertically integrated big oil needs to be broken up. Here in San Diego, we always have the highest gas prices in the country. It's on par with Honolulu and always 5% higher then Los Angeles. The reason is that there are no independent gas stations in the county. Virtually everything is owned by 2 oil companies.

    •  Big Oil (0+ / 0-)

      Standard Oil got split up. The chunks have grown since then. In addition, some of them have recombined into larger companies.

      Meaning there are now oil companies running around that would have been judged too big back at the time of the Standard Oil split, and this can be known without access to anything but a basic but relatively detailed history of the industry.

      Incomplete list of McNames in profile. Personal favorites include McSogynist, McNopoly, and McThuselah, and McWorse.

      by Cassandra Waites on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:01:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Trust busters!? How communist (0+ / 0-)

      Don't you all realize that Big Business is just looking out for our best interests via the "trickle down" theory!  Attacking Big Business is just so unAmerican.  Just reduce regulations, cut taxes and they'll look after us!  They'll pay their fair share through increased spending on yachts, multiple housekeepers, buying lots of sports cars, creating much employment for caddies and MORE!

      You libruls just don't get it, do ya?

      (and just in case you think I'm serious, /snark)

      The intrinsic nature of Power is such that those who seek it most are least qualified to wield it.

      by mojo workin on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 06:12:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Where's Fitz? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Karen Wehrstein


    McCain/Palin: Lie Traffickers

    by ccmask on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:56:27 PM PDT

  •  Gordon Gekko said it best (6+ / 0-)

    The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's bullshit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you.

    A fool and his money are lucky enough to get together in the first place- Gordon Gekko

    by IvanR on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:56:51 PM PDT

  •  Dividends are my retirement income (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sanuk, Cassandra Waites, two roads, MMW

    I didn't work for any companies that gave out pensions. My retirement income is based on my 401K and IRA savings, and the dividends I receive from them each month are what I live on. Asking me to forego dividends for a quarter means asking me to forego my income for a quarter.

    Not all stock/bond holders are rich.

    Many of the other proposals are reasonable.

    I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies..

    by lesliet on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:56:59 PM PDT

    •  dividend retirment (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wa ma

      See what I wrote above.
      If your retirement is based on stock dividends, you do not have a viable retirement.    Sucks but its true.

      Not that the dividend proposal was a good one; it wouldn't work anyway.   If the government announces that it will sieze the dividends, every company affected will simply not have dividends that quarter, easy to do, and the government will get 100% of nothing.

      Your argument, though, amounts to "this would make my retirement non-viable" when viability was not a quality it possessed to start with.   It would just expose that non-viability sooner.   I don't have a viable retirement, either.

      Many people can't afford to live, let alone retire, in the present robber-baron economy.    This is what happens when we let the rich run off with most of the wealth and then rent it back to us, ship all our manufacturing overseas, continue to use fossil fuels we import at non-sustainable rates, etc.

      -6.25, -6.36 Worst. President. Dictator. Ever.

      by whitis on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:28:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  for once I dont agree with Michael. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    artmartin, pinkbunny

    by GlowNZ on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:57:15 PM PDT

  •  Wow, another lecture (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twalling, GlowNZ, pinkbunny

    Michael, love your movies but if you want me to pay attention to your rants on here, you'll actually stick around to talk with us about it.  

    Otherwise it's almost like listening to some old codger rocking on a front porch dictating how you should run your life.  They may actually be right now and then but I prefer conversations where some brainstorming and give and take takes place.

    Democracies work best with a sharing of ideas not some celebrity popping up now and then lecturing everyone on how things should be.  

    When you do a movie you actually interview others and ask how they feel about subjects.  Maybe that same type of interaction here would be worthwhile.

    Maybe I'm just talking to myself.  At least when I respond to a diary by Kos or KO, I feel there's a chance they might actually check back in to see the reaction.

    "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

    by artmartin on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:57:23 PM PDT

    •  Rock on! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I'm tired of the hit-and-run diaries from MM, I've called him on it in several of them (not like he came back to see that I did...)

      He's pushing a book and a new film.  That's my conclusion.

      "Can I just ask a question? What is Fox News, it's just a Parade of Propaganda, isn't it? It's just a Festival of Ignorance." --Lee Camp, FOX News guest

      by twalling on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:12:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You're an idiot on this topic (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GlowNZ, MMW

    Thanks for posting, though.

    The dogs are in the motherfuckin' street

    by GenXWho on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:57:57 PM PDT

    •  Details (0+ / 0-)
      1. Already a law
      1. See Obama's tax plan
      1. What about people who are not losing their homes?  Unfair.
      1. Already in the current plan
      1. Already planned
      1. Already exists, just needs to be enforced.  Cue Obama administration
      1. Not the problem, but sounds nice
      1. Up the cap, but FDIC cannot insure equity-based investments.  Talk about moral hazard.
      1. Huh?
      1. Uh, no.

      Thanks again for playing.

      The dogs are in the motherfuckin' street

      by GenXWho on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:09:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Cue Obama Crush. (0+ / 0-)

        Luv it.  

        •  Sorry (0+ / 0-)

          I was gonna let this slide, but this comment is out of left field.  I wasn't even thinking about Obama when I wrote this comment.

          I was thinking about how sometimes Moore and his acolytes make the Left look bad by their naivete.

          Thanks for reinforcing that.

          The dogs are in the motherfuckin' street

          by GenXWho on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:00:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  No are the one playing games (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lotlizard, ratmach

        This is not a political game to us.

        #3 is unfair? And yet providing hundreds of billions of dollars to corporations and banks is fair? Strange logic.

        My neighbor will probably lose his house. The price of gas has doubled since he bought his house and driving to work has become such an expense that he now has to decide whether he will keep his his house or keep his job.

        Did he make a mistake when he purchaed his home? Perhaps, but certainly no greater than the mistakes of the great economic minds who led this country into this crisis. He didn't buy to flip. It wasn't a luxury estate. $80,000. He just wanted his own handful of earth.

        This bailout...Excuse me - rescue(I want to use the correct rhetoric) will not help him save his house. I'm not interested in the trickle down impact. I am not interested in placating Republican free-marketeers who want a business tax cut in return for their votes for the bailout(rescue ...whatever).

        I am close to retirement and a Wall street downturn will undoubtedly hurt my portfolio, but I would rather lose some money than to give in to this craven attempt at economic blackmail.

        Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling. - Cake

        by slatsg on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:27:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, unfair (0+ / 0-)

          Person 1: $100,000 mortgage, not in default
          Person 2: $100,000 mortgage, in default

          Moore's plan is to give #2 taxpayer money, but not #1.  The fairness issue I brought up is not about whether it goes to bankers or to "main street" but rather that one homeowner gets relief while another does not.  If I can get that kind of money, I will go delinquent on my mortgage payments right away.

          I do not like the add-ons the Republicans are asking for either.  I didn't comment on that.

          The current plan is not a handout to Wall Street.  We are purchasing assets that can be sold later to recoup the money.  There is the potential for the taxpayers to make money.  If the taxpayers lose money, then there is talk of a stock transaction tax to make up the shortfall.

          Huge Cake fan here--like your sig.

          The dogs are in the motherfuckin' street

          by GenXWho on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 07:58:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Aw crap... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    two roads

    ... No more filet mignon for Geroge's Terrier?

  •  We already have "People's Banks". (7+ / 0-)

    They're called "Credit Unions".  Join your local one today.

    Love ya, Michael!  As usual, this is spot freakin' on.

    "When those who are accountable are right, they take the credit. When they're wrong, they take the heat. It's a fair exchange." - Lehman Bros ad ca. 1980s

    by Mehitabel9 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:59:30 PM PDT

  •  Finally! (4+ / 0-)

    Somebody calls it like it is!

    Skull and Bones Kerry was pleading with Bill O'Reilly to sell the Pig to main street:

    If it was for Main Street, trust me, we'd be for it!


  •  My plan's even better! (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wonmug, wa ma, pragprogress, MMW, ratmach, Antacid

    I can fix everything, guaranteed...

    Every year, on Decenmber 25th, we execute the hundred richest people in the world. No tax shelters, no loans to the poodle, no ifs, ands, or buts. The first few years they might not take it seriously, but by about November of the third year, the hundred richest people would be falling all over themselves trying to give their money away to charities, feed the poor, house the homeless, prevent malaria etc. Of course, when they dumped the moola, the next hundred would be up for the block, so they'd dump....

    In ten years everything would be really, really even. We'd still have to execute a hundred people just to keep up the principle of the thing. Cruel? ahem - last year, 20 million people starved to death, anywhere from another 40 to 80 million people died of easily-preventable diseases, compounded by malnutrition, filth, parasites... nobody's really counting, they're just poor people after all. Sanctity of life?

    "An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide." - Arnold Toynbee

    by David Mason on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:01:18 PM PDT

  •  Great, Mike (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    revsue, two roads

    but you left out a couple of things that I've been recommending:A Green WPA. In the first Great Depression, Roosevelt used taxpayer money to put the jobless back to work.If we can come up with a Trillion for Wall St., then surely we can afford to hire unemployed Americans to research, develop, manufacture, and install clean and sustainable alternative energy such as solar panels on every roof in the country, wind turbines wherever the wind blows, geothermal wells, non-food crop biofuels, and subsidized hybrid cars and energy efficient appliances.Energy Security is National Security.Ending our addiction to foreign oil purchased at inflated prices from people who want to kill us is the only way to bring our troops home from the Persian Gulf. By the same token, if we can afford to buy giant insurance companies such as AIG, then we can also afford to buy out Aetna, Cigna, United Healthcare, and all the rest of the for-profit healthcare denial companies and turn them around to become true healthcare providers.Health Security is National Security. What difference does it really make if you get sick from a bioweapon or Mother Nature? Sick is sick and dead is dead, and an attack on the health of the nation is an attack that must be defended against, regardless of the source. In an age of infectious disease, defending our neighbors' health is the same as defending our own, thus making all of us as responsible for paying for it as we are entitled to receive it.

    Finally, we need to reform the Capital Gains tax to make it Progressive
    The first $50k of capital gains income should be exempt in order to protect small businesses and homeowners, then phase it in at about 1% for every $10k in additional capital gains income, topping out at 55%. No one should have any sympathy whatsoever for a hedge fund manager who can't get by on $450 million a year instead of a billion.

    Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

    by drewfromct on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:01:28 PM PDT

  •  Michael, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Messiah, two roads

    I diaried a proposal similar to your point number 3 and I absolutely love your point number 6 about breaking up the monopolies.

    Monopolies are at their center, anti-competetitive and they drive up the cost of everything where they exist.  Each anti-competetive merger always is financed on the backs of the thousands of employees who will lose their jobs forever.

    Our government's abrogation of their responsibility to enforce the existing anti-trust laws which are still on the books have given us 5 companies which control all of the oil, gasoline and fuel-oil prices in America.  It has given us 5 media giants who control what information we have easy access to.  It permits massive banking consolidation which is a big part of our problems today.  Name the industry that has consolidated, be it telecommunications, banking, retailing, consumer products, and you will see more unemployment and higher prices.  Less freedom.

    Break up big oil, big pharma, big media, Wal-Mart and quite a few others.

    It is time to renounce fear and go out and kick some Republican Ass

    by Ohiodem1 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:01:34 PM PDT

  •  live by the free market, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joanneleon, FishBiscuit, two roads

    die by the free market with the rest of us who are facing foreclosure.

    The NYT magazine had an "On Language" piece in August about the sub-prime insanity. Terms included
    "Ninja" loans: No income, no jobs or assets, and "Liars' loans," which Joe Nocera said "practically begged borrowers to lie about their incomes." People who took these loans may have been stupid or greedy (for a place to live!) but considering the tactics that were used with them, I find that less credible than the idea that the lenders, and packagers of these crap loans, were bad actors who should have to pay for their failed pyramid scheme.

    I especially like the idea of capping exec pay at 40 times the average salary.

  •  thanks for saying what needs to be said (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Messiah, Johnny Q
  •  Awesome. Thanx Michael. Have you read anything (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    libnewsie, Cartoon Messiah

    on Bail-out Alternatives by  William Isaac, former Chair of the FDIC under Reagan?

    Or what do you think about the efforts of Congressman Peter DeFazio of Oregon?

    They both seem right on the money (pardon my pun)

    Next time I tell you someone from Texas should NOT be president of the United States, please pay attention. In Memory of Molly Ivins, 1944-2007

    by truebeliever on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:03:23 PM PDT

  •  This is (6+ / 0-)

    not a very good plan.

    There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    by abundibot on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:05:55 PM PDT

    •  glad im not the only one (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      artmartin, pinkbunny, jonas1

      who thinks just becuase Michael moore said it, it must be right.

      by GlowNZ on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:07:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hey remember GlowNZ, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        we're just liberal sheep of course.

        "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

        by artmartin on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:15:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's an awful plan. Sounds good, until you think (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shann, jonas1

        Even the quarter tax on stock transactions....It sounded good to me when I heard other countries have similar taxes. But, the biggest traders here are pension plan managers. Do we really want to be be taxing them on every transaction? Maybe we do, but I don't think it achieves the implicit goal of soaking the rich. More to the point, what does that have to do with the current crisis in credit availability?

        In fact, point-by-point, while I find some appeal in his rhetoric, the ideas seem to have little relationship to the credit crunch crisis we face.

        Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

        by FischFry on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:23:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I mostly agree with you (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    two roads
    Except for the shareholder dividends.  All shareholders are not millionaires and why would you punish all shareholders for the mistakes of the finance industry?  The basic premise of investing in a stock is to make money off your investment.  If you take away that incentive why would anyone invest?  How would they trust their dividends wouldn't be taken away the next time an industry needs to be propped up?

    I do think the patriotic thing to do is to critique my country. How else do you make a country better but by pointing out its flaws? Bill Maher

    by gtghawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:07:36 PM PDT

  •  Yes. (6+ / 0-)

    Until I read this, I was willing to accept whatever plan came out of Congress, just to get past the emergency. No more. I agree with Michael Moore: let those who have profited, pay.

    Greg Shenaut

  •  How can anyone spend a billion dollars in their (4+ / 0-)

    lifetime? Bush's administration has solidified the culture of greed.

    "You are very wise, Van Helsing, for one who has yet to live a single lifetime." - Count Dracula

    by collardgreens on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:11:19 PM PDT

  •  This is going to seem pretty lame... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Messiah, ratmach, Johnny Q
    But I want to tell you that I think you're pretty awesome. Thanks for your contribution to society and to pop culture.

    And when this election is all over please, PLEASE do a documentary on how Barack Obama wiped the floor with McCain & Palin.

    Your fan,


    Tune in on Nov 5, 2008 for Fox News' LIVE coverage of McCain's concession speech.

    by Stella 4 Obama on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:13:06 PM PDT

  •  thank you mike (2+ / 0-)

    Love you and your work.  While you are at it, drive home some version of the following:  roughly 10% of the nation holds 90% of the wealth, leaving only 10% for the rest of us, the 90%, to divvy up.  Those numbers are approximate, but close enough.  I love the 400 people line though and am going to use it.

    But this one provision in your plan is a problem

    c) Because every stockholder is a patriotic American, stockholders will forgo receiving a dividend check for one quarter and instead this money will go the treasury to help pay for the bailout.

    for retired people because a significant percentage of them are relying on their stocks to support themselves.  Some of these people are actually far closer to the bottom than the top of the economic equation. In ten years, because of my forced participation in the stock market by my pension plan, I'll be counting on that money to make it from month to month.

    I have been calling and emailing like mad for two weeks now.  I don't know what else to do to stop these frackin Congress critters from giving away our last pennies.  

    I've also been reading as much as I can.  There is a diary on the rec list right now saying you cannot reasonably oppose the bailout bill unless you read it.  Well, I scanned about one third and didn't find a single phrase that pleased me.

    I do believe that something big is happening out there; however, I believe that, not because Bu$h and Co. told me 12 days ago, but because anyone who pays any degree of attention, can see something is really stinking up the place.

    We are in for a rough ride, but that doesn't mean we have to give away the store.  As I posted in another diary, from Dark Angel, one of my favorite science fictions ever, "It is supposed to be a depression, but people aren't all that depressed."  There are far worse things than a depression, far, far worse.

    Just say "No" to Blackmail and the Shock Doctrine

    by fernan47 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:14:11 PM PDT

  •  I'll agree to anything that lands Cheney in jail. (5+ / 0-)

    This is just to say Forgive us victory tastes delicious so sweet and so cold

    by Dave the Wave on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:14:13 PM PDT

  •  No amnesty for economic terrorists! (5+ / 0-)

    They want to FREE THE CORPORATE CRIMINALS who stole your savings, destroyed your economy, let businesses poison your food, and sent off your money to Saudi Arabian-style theocracies?

    It's time to make CEO's realize they're SOL. Prison, yes. But what about probation? How about work release? I think work-release for criminal CEO's ought to be this: Those same CEO's working minimum wage jobs in their own companies, working right alongside the wage slaves they've been stiffing all these years with unlivable wages. It's not cruel and unusual punishment, for them, no. Consider it an entry-level position -- entering reality.

    Alaska has the most expensive gas of all the fifty states, and so can you.

    by harveythechainsaw on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:14:19 PM PDT

  •  Does this apply to you, Michael? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    a) Every couple who makes over a million dollars a year and every single taxpayer who makes over $500,000 a year will pay a 10% surcharge tax for five years. (It's the Senator Sanders plan. He's like Colonel Sanders, only he's out to fry the right chickens.) That means the rich will still be paying less income tax than when Carter was president. This will raise a total of $300 billion.

    b) Like nearly every other democracy, charge a 0.25% tax on every stock transaction. This will raise more than $200 billion in a year.

    c) Because every stockholder is a patriotic American, stockholders will forgo receiving a dividend check for one quarter and instead this money will go the treasury to help pay for the bailout.

    d) 25% of major U.S. corporations currently pay NO federal income tax. Federal corporate tax revenues currently amount to 1.7% of the GDP compared to 5% in the 1950s. If we raise the corporate income tax back to the level of the 1950s, that gives us an extra $500 billion.

    You are a guy with a net worth of, say, 50 million dollars, in the 99th percentile, wealth wise.  Are you really willing to be extra patriotic, and pony up to help poor downtrodden guys like me and pay that 10% surcharge, pay the tax on your stock transactions, forego your dividends and pay a higher corporate tax on the earnings of your production company?  Are you?  


    Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

    by SpamNunn on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:15:20 PM PDT

    •  I'm sorry. I thought that Michael was (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      commenting in his own diary.  Silly me.  

      Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

      by SpamNunn on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:16:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He never does. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        He likes to post hit-and-run diaries for starstruck Kossacks to recommend.

        "Can I just ask a question? What is Fox News, it's just a Parade of Propaganda, isn't it? It's just a Festival of Ignorance." --Lee Camp, FOX News guest

        by twalling on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:10:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I recommended it (0+ / 0-)

          Want to make something of it?

          "Lash those traitors and conservatives with the pen of gall and wormwood. Let them feel -- no temporising!" - Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1835

          by Ivan on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:15:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Good for you! (0+ / 0-)

            That button over to the right really isn't all tha difficult to figure out how to use.

            You are of course free to rec anything you want to, even serial drive-by celebrity diarists like MM.

            "Can I just ask a question? What is Fox News, it's just a Parade of Propaganda, isn't it? It's just a Festival of Ignorance." --Lee Camp, FOX News guest

            by twalling on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 04:42:01 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  He has as much right to post here as you do (0+ / 0-)

              "Lash those traitors and conservatives with the pen of gall and wormwood. Let them feel -- no temporising!" - Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1835

              by Ivan on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 07:58:00 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Absolutely he does. (0+ / 0-)

                I just try to abide by the community standards of sticking around and participating in the discussion on the rare event that I post a diary.

                "Can I just ask a question? What is Fox News, it's just a Parade of Propaganda, isn't it? It's just a Festival of Ignorance." --Lee Camp, FOX News guest

                by twalling on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 10:51:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  I have to agree with this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      even Buffet thought he should pay more, well if that's how they really feel, then they should put there money where their mouth is and prove it. There isn't anything that says you can't pay more tax when you file. Why do they have to wait for an act of congress for them to take action? Wouldn't that show some real leadership if they did it without being asked? That would be patriotic!

      •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

        by SpamNunn on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:20:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  If his plan passed he obviously (0+ / 0-)

        would be impacted.

        Why should he pony up now? So that more of his money can go to to pay economic blackmail?

        Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling. - Cake

        by slatsg on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:31:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  the point is (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          if h'ss willing to say this, why does if have to wait until its passed into law to do it? It's easy to "sort out" if you're speaking from an already finacially comfortable view. He clearly insinuated, whether sarcastically or not, that it's the patriotic thing to do...Why does he have to wait for a plan from congress, why doesn't he take action then?

          •  And where will this extra money go? (0+ / 0-)

            We've already coughed up over $700 billion for our criminal enterprise in Iraq. Now we are supposed to pay another $700 billion in for a bailout. Moore paying extra taxes that would be used for a flawed plan would be silly.

            Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling. - Cake

            by slatsg on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:48:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I've heard him readily acknowledge that (0+ / 0-)

      he himself has become fabulously wealthy while becoming famous.  I dont' think that undermines his message at all.

      Hooray for Joy and Whoopie!

      by jjellin on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:59:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Unless he ponies up, sure it does. (0+ / 0-)

        Do as I say, not as I do?  No.

        Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

        by SpamNunn on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:07:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  are you asking him to spend his money (0+ / 0-)

          in a particular way?  If so then that is a different issue.  I still believe that the fact of his making money as a result of his making really good, and popular, films, does not undermine the message--regardless of what he chooses to do with his money.  I have no idea what he does with his money, do you?

          Hooray for Joy and Whoopie!

          by jjellin on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 03:37:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  We love you, Michael (2+ / 0-)

    You are a true American hero - a "true" patriot.

  •  Thank you Michael (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Messiah, Johnny Q

    "If a company is too big to fail, it is too big to exist." Sen. Bernie Sanders

    by Sagebrush Bob on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:15:31 PM PDT

  •  Amen, brother (0+ / 0-)

    Now you're talking some sense, Michael.

  •  that was a wonderful fantasy (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tlaw, RebeccaG, oceanstar17, Hail Ceaser

    now back to work in the reality based world

    Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
    34 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!

    by TrueBlueMajority on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:22:05 PM PDT

      •  it means (0+ / 0-)

        I love a lot of the things MM has suggested here, but most of it cannot happen in a million years according to the political realities we are living under right now.

        so we can dream big about criminal indictments for the men responsible for this mess, 10% wealth surcharges, caps on executive compensation, putting AIG at the center of healthcare for all, and a trillion dollars in a People's Bank, but then we have to come back to the realm of the possible and make hard decisions about necessary compromises.

        Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
        34 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!

        by TrueBlueMajority on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:11:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I love you and Bernie Sanders. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BDA in VA, Cartoon Messiah, two roads

    WTF is with these people?  

    They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20 ~~ Dennis Kucinich

    by dkmich on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:22:25 PM PDT

  •  Excellent work (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    two roads

    There's nothing in that plan that I do not agree with. That is a true progressive financial rescue plan. Thanks!

  •  Now, you have *finally* earned my respect, lol ! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FishBiscuit, two roads

    not that I didn't respect you before, for your extremely timely, and completely salient movies, though I may not have agreed with you entirely on all of your assessments of things, I do believe your heart was, and is, (largely) in the right place.

    ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

    by ArthurPoet on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:27:38 PM PDT

  •  Fantastic diary! Let's all call D.C. while we (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tanya, two roads

    have time!

  •  You make some great points, Michael. Thanks. (3+ / 0-)

    "No way, no how, no McCain." Hillary Clinton

    by keeplaughing on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:33:14 PM PDT

  •  OMFG!!!! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tanya, FishBiscuit, two roads, Renie

    Where do I sign up!!!!!

    GodDAMMIT. I want fucking real justice. For ONCE!

    The Republicans: The Party That Wrecked America.

    by donailin on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:33:37 PM PDT

  •  Not much you can do about your great ideas (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    until Bush is out of office.

    You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war..... Albert Einstein,

    by tazz on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:34:23 PM PDT

  •  Never liked Moore, Never will. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twalling, oceanstar17, MMW, gereiztkind, jonas1

    Guy's an egomaniac. His new free documentary is a hour plus victory lap to himself.

    That said, if he makes say, "The Rise and Fall of Sarah Palin" this winter, I'll probably enjoy that. :)

    (the latest Couric trainwreck is coming up NOW!!!)

    "See? I'm not a racist! I have a black friend!"

    by TheHalfrican on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:42:03 PM PDT

  •  I really hate the national bank idea. (0+ / 0-)

    I like the way it is envisioned to work.  I just don't want to see the next George W. Bush running it.

    I've lost my faith in nihilism

    by grumpynerd on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:47:19 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Mike (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    from an old, diehard fan.
    Here are some numbers to compare to those 400 (less than the number of Congresspeople!!!)

    "In 1873, 80% of the land in the United Kingdom was owned by an élite of seven thousand, out of a total population of 32 million." - Roy Strong, The Story of Britain

    Now ponder that for a moment, keeping well in mind that in the nineteenth century land was still for the most part the chief commodity and source of power - Britain, and the rest of the World, was industrializing, but it was land, and not yet capital, where the true power lay.
    Seven thousand aristocrats owning 80% of the wealth of a nation of 32 million souls! Now compare that to those 400 fellows who own a much larger share than the remaining 299,999,600 people in America, and ask yourselves this question:

    Weren't we supposed to do a better job than the British? Isn't that why the United States were established to begin with?

    Then widen the scope of things a bit: 400 people, who own most of the wealth of the wealthiest nation on earth, which in turn makes up one sixth of the worlds population, and owns 25% of this wealth.

    I read an article on road construction in India recently: a foreman, possessing what is considered a good job, makes $8.00 a day!

    Weren't we supposed to do better than the feudal masters whose tea was dumped in Boston Harbor?
    What a mockery of democracy and enlightenment values!

    "Superstition, idolatry, and hypocrisy have ample wages, but truth goes begging." - Luther

    by Cartoon Messiah on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:48:15 PM PDT

  •  I agree and (0+ / 0-)

    GOOD LUCK making it happen!

  •  Excellent (0+ / 0-)

    In a just world, Congress would consider that bill. This is not a just world. :(

    Thank you, Mr. Moore.

    Lousy Smarch weather!

    by FishBiscuit on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:49:56 PM PDT

  •  Tell me if my math is wrong (0+ / 0-)

    But if we implemented (3), it would cost just $120 billion dollars. The government could do it in the form of "silent second" mortgages that would be paid back (with interest) at the time of sale, or earlier without prepayment penalty.

    $120 billion and poof, problem solved. Why the $700B?

  •  This is the second (2+ / 0-)

    time Obama has been faced with the opportunity to put his words into action and this is the second time he has failed.  Integrity and values aren't something you can set aside when it's convenient.  The thing I keep hearing from folks here is that Obama will take care of it when he's president.  I say that is a flawed argument, because if he won't stand up for us now, nothing will change when he's president that will make standing up for regular Americans any easier.  The exact same barriers will be there when he's president as exist now.  I'll vote Obama, but I am deeply, deeply disappointed in him.  Heartbroken, really, because he made me believe in him; believe that we finally had an honorable leader that would get us out of the mess from the last 30 years.  It sure didn't take him long to get jaded and influenced by Washington.  Sad.  Sad for all of us.

  •  Michael, stop making sense. n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  Well said, as always. (0+ / 0-)

    It is about time I get a chance to read a front page article here that doesn't follow the official line and I am a little disappointed you had to come here to inject some sanity. Kos really shows his CIA pedigree promoting the awful proposals we have seen so far. If there were any interest in the welfare of the American public (or the Democratic party for that matter) he and the regular contributors would be leading the charge to end the bailout in its current form and promote these types of measures instead.

    Watch, there will not be a single front page peep endorsing the idea that corporate America should actually pay its own way out of this mess and that there is no such thing as a company too big to fail. I will be watching closely how this plays out and the Democrats who are pushing this rip off will never get my vote again. That includes Obama who is seems more and more like just a less cranky version of McCain.

    "corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow" Abraham Lincoln

    by Thirsty on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:04:44 PM PDT

  •  Their own bailout (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fixed Point Theorem, Loose Fur


    Agreed.  I have this fantasy that the next president goes on TV and says something like this to our well-off friends:  "You wanted to own the country.  And now you do.  So your going to pay to fix it."

    I have this other fantasy that the Guardians of the Universe give me my own power ring....

    "I'm not negative - I'm ANGRY!" -- Howard the Duck

    by Roddy McCorley on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:06:06 PM PDT

  •  God bless Michael Moore (5+ / 0-)

    Keep talkin' loud and callin' out the rightwing bastards.

  •  Michael, you must have been reading my (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slatsg, Rachel Griffiths

    past few diaries .. :)

  •  By far the best plan yet. Lets tell Congress! n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fixed Point Theorem
  •  thank you (0+ / 0-)

    Wall Street Welfare is a ditch.

    Deregulate my check book, McCain, yeah that's it, that's the ticket

    by 88kathy on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:16:50 PM PDT

  •  Thanks, Michael ! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -Thomas Jefferson

    by ezdidit on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:17:16 PM PDT

  •  Pete DeFazio, Congressman from Oregon, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ReneInOregon, Simian, The Jester

    has a well thought-out, very detailed proposal loaded with great reform to actually CORRECT the problem that caused this, protect the ordinary citizen, and get things running again without rewarding the bad guys.  He's on the Finance Committee and really knows his material from top to bottom.  He also brings up the little detail of total lack of meaningful oversight.  The Senate  proposal provides for limited review only AFTER the fact.  When asked about relying on Bernanke and Paulson for informed advise, DeFazio flatly answers NO.  He trusts them on this about as far as you can throw them.  He brings up another point that worries me a great deal.  The disgusting proposal is intentionally set up for an immediate go, but is not set for review for 5 years.  This conveniently shields what's set in motion to run past the reach of the next President and Congress.  So, Obama just might not be able to make major reform changes to this package one he's in office.  (The Dems are really dumber than nails to let this one get past them.)

    DeFazio is part of the Progressive Caucus and is pushing this with them.  He's furious that the Senate is buying into the heist proposal and the leadership is twisting arms for everyone to get on board.  Said he would not vote for it.  

    I've been calling all my reps and giving them an earful, except for Lynn Woolsey who's already on our side.  I've also been urging them to look over DeFazio['s proposal BECAUSE HE KNOWS MORE ABOUT IT THAN THEY DO AND HE ACTUALLY HAS A DETAILED WORKABLE PLAN THAT ADDRESSES ALL THE INTER-RELATED FACETS.  This is the time to stand up for principles and the American public and not fall for another shock doctrine ploy.

    •  Let's see now ...the Moore Plan (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      So here's what we should do: First, we stop the current plan that is being debated, eliminate all of its content; second, let's start the negotiations again and include all of the Moore Plan elements ...undoubtedly, this will be quick to consensus ...nothing controversial here; third, let's allow the clogged credit pipes to remain clogged until the Moore Plan can be enacted (Note: It seems that the automotive industry among others is suffering probably unrecoverable damage ...GM / Chrysler / Ford sales down about 30-35% for September); finally, why not take a chance on another great depression ...who could it hurt?

      Maybe if you can get traction for your proposal and as we await its enactment, we'll live to see all the businesses in Flint shut down ...AC, the engine plant, Chevy Truck, Parts Division ...maybe even Whiting and the Mott Foundation fold up and/or leave town. Very likely, that same scenario will occur in many other towns and cities across the country. Want to take that chance?

      •  What an elegant argument (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sad Ham

        for a plan that amounts to Congress essentially opening up the vault to the treasury and then running around in circles, waving their hands in the air and screaming "We're doomed!"

        IOW, you, as does every person arguing in favor of the Bailout, are guilty of posing a false dichotomy.  Pass this, or we risk doom.  Well, passing the Bailout isn't going to change the fact that we're in a recession.  It isn't going to have a lasting effect on credit.  And it IS going to severely hamper the next administration from doing anything constructive.

        "The old boy's network. In the McCain campaign, that's called a staff meeting."

        by Simian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 06:55:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Unfortunately, (0+ / 0-)

      my comment below aimed at Mr. Moore's diary falls under your comment. Finger check on my part, it should be one column to the left.

  •  make a movie about the drug war (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Jester


  •  Bail Me Out (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Quicksilver2723, jonas1

    I didn't take out a loan I couldn't afford. I'm not getting foreclosed. I didn't buy a home with credit I didn't deserve, at a low price before all that credit inflated prices.

    But I'm supposed to spend some of my money that I've carefully protected, to bail out those who have made those bad decisions, and protect their benefits.

    What about me? Am I going to get $100,000 of a mortgage free, paid down by everyone else in the country? Why not? Because I'm not a fool?

    Maybe I am.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:31:24 PM PDT

    •  Yes (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      People should take responsibility but they were also convinced they could afford it and that they would always be able to refinance.  Well, the way the housing market went, no one can refinance.

      It's a bit more complicated than that.

      •  They Convinced Themselves (0+ / 0-)

        Sure, some people were actually defrauded into unsupportable loans. They should sue the lenders to freeze their terms and get proper ones.

        But most people with unsupportable mortgages weren't tricked - not by the lender, anyway. They tricked themselves. Lots of them tricked themselves by saying "they can't foreclose everyone, so I'll be safe among the many". And now this bailout is proving them right.

        Most people could refinance, just take longer to pay back the same total amount. But no one wants to take a loss, even though they bet wrong.

        "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die."

        It's not really as complicated as you say in the mortgage market. What you're reducing it to is a smokescreen.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 06:39:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  No of course you won't have to bail out (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      regular citizens.

      Don't be silly.

      But you will be bailing out those who have made bad decisions. You're going to bail out the wealthy.

      Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling. - Cake

      by slatsg on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:41:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I disagree with A LOT of this. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MMW, ILean Left, jonas1, neilgj

    like M.Moore, but I'm sorry, he's wrong on a lot of this...

    •  have you ever agreed (0+ / 0-)

      with anything that anyone has ever said on this or any other blog site?  get a life.

      My universe is a friendly one

      by goldmj on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:25:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  OK. I'll say it:The problem with Michael Moore... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MMW, ILean Left, jonas1 Michael Moore.  Why stick to the truth when exaggeration and distortion drives the point home ever more forcefully? For the most part, I can barely believe what I am about to type but honestly, of the 400 richest, how many were involved in or directly benefited from unscrupulous trading in mortgage-backed securities?  Bill Gates?  Sergey Brin? Cmon?  Can anyone back up that $700 billion increase number?  Sounds a little too convenient to me.  Look, the rich ought to pay more taxes - but that is a separate argument.  And corporations should pay more taxes, too.  That is also a separate argument.  The fact is that in the US we have set up a society that for the most part relies on privately invested retirement accounts (401k, IRA and the like).  That's your money.  We have also created a socety that values home ownership above all other investments. So everyone works hard to buy a house and because housing is expensive, banks get involved.  That's your money, too.  All of it gets invested in the stock market and other financial instruments.  Large banks and investment houses have insinuated themselves into the economy in such a significant way that weakness in one sector of the financial system can have a serious ripple effect.  This ripple makes its way to your retirement account and your house. And here we are.  The fear is not irrational. You house is losing its value and so is your retirement nest egg.  You can get mad and blame the rich.  That's fun and I'm sure you can produce a satirically funny movie about it but it is inaccurate.  You can indict people but they were just following the non-existent rules.  Ideas 3, 4, 5 and 8 are about the only rational meaningful ones presented. The rest are just pitchfork politics.  And by the way, I don't know what students you were talking to but money is tight and student loans are not being extended as easily as you seem to think.

    •  well, as long as you say so... (0+ / 0-)

      Since you back it up with so much information, I have no other choice than to agree with you.

  •  Re point 6, all corporations that have reached (2+ / 0-)

    zaibatsu size must be broken up and anti-trust laws vigorously enforced.

    This includes media empires like Newcorp, petroleum companies like Exxon Mobile and of course the aforementioned banks.

    This is needed to disperse the tremendous political power that these companies now exert and the resultant distortion of democracy in the United States.

  •  Give a house to every soldier. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ebbinflo, Quicksilver2723, Antacid

    4 tours of duty. Make that two houses.

    I hope I'm having a Mid Life Crisis; or else this is gonna need a prescription.

    by ghett on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:46:35 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Mike! You always speak truth to power! (0+ / 0-)

    "I'm a pessimist because of intelligence, but an optimist because of will" - Antonio Gramsci

    by HGM MA on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:48:49 PM PDT

  •  Thanks! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wa ma

    I haven't read the senate bill yet, but I will read it closely.
    Sadly I think we'll need to come back to this in late January.

    Things will be worse then regardless of the bailout I think,
    simply because mainstreet is going down still

  •  *LOTS* of good ideas, but push SWEDISH MODEL! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The "Swedish model" has the advantage that it can be described in two words (to 'slow' legislators).  It's hard enough to get legislators to listen.  If everyone calling in says "SWEDISH MODEL" eventually they'll try it!

    And it has the advantage that it worked once before.  The markets will not be calmed by the Paulson scheme, because the Paulson scheme failed once before (in Japan in the 1990s).  The markets will be calmes by a scheme which worked before

    -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

    by neroden on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:56:25 PM PDT

  •  I disagree with paying mortgages (0+ / 0-)

    ...down $100,000.

    Imagine a populist advocating that all Americans, including the lower income taxpayers without homes, chip in to pay off the mortgaged bourgeoisie. Ridiculous!

    If people can't pay their mortgages they should sell the house and rent. This is not a tragedy.

  •  It's all good (0+ / 0-)

    but like Obama said, we probably don't have the time or the votes to make a better plan to meet the current emergency.

    I think we go forward with what we got, and let Obama go after the 400 money after he's elected.

  •  Agree but.. (0+ / 0-)

    I agree that we need to do all MM lays out.  But, that none of that addresses the immediate need to get liquidity into the credit market.  If the credit market freezes up, small business will get hit hard, our credit card rates will go up, it will be harder to get loans, revolving credit lines could disappear - business rely on that to order inventory.

    I'm sorry to tell Michael that the idea that the bail out is just a reward to Wall St, and that we can simply ignoring the credit crisis is overly simplistic.  Nobody is happy about this.  But, it is something we absolutely have to do.    Put simply,  you may not be happy if your local bank need to be saved by your city after mismanagement drove it to the brink, but how would you feel if the city  let the bank fail and you showed up to make a withdrawal, the doors were chained shut and you had no access to your money.

    Yes, we need to to bring back regulation and hold those responsible for this mess accountable, but we need to deal with the credit crisis first.

  •  We could take Hugo Chavez' advice. (0+ / 0-)

    create a new constitution. hell, as I said earlier, we haven't been using this one much.

    However, the Constitution DOES have several remedies, all of which have been ignored by Congress, the Senate and the WitlessHouse.

    first? BANKRUPTCY. tis mentioned in that ancient, worthless, scrap o' paper.

    second? BANKING. Mr. Moore has it right. Use the money to create a People's Bank. Period. Compete with those frauds who paid $3 BILLION in bonuses to themselves, on top of huge salaries.

    third? CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS. Again, Mr. Moore has it right.

    What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

    by agnostic on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:26:54 PM PDT

  •  How many more times is Obama going to play (0+ / 0-)

    the rich man's bitch? Telecom Immunity? Kill bin Laden? Why not impeach Bush/Cheney?  He's been stepping and fetching it pretty good for the Bush Administration lately.

    We need a new candidate. NADER NADER NADER

    My universe is a friendly one

    by goldmj on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:29:53 PM PDT

  •  Nobody is gonna get tough on the rich. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BDA in VA

    And if anybody tries, they're dead.

  •  nice (0+ / 0-)

    I agree with a lot of these points...most won't pass.

    But...some of them are the basis for the dems counterproposal...we OWN them with our money...thats fine.

  •  Re: point #1 (0+ / 0-)

    Isn't a large part of the problem that many of the actions that brought about this crisis were decriminalized?  I'm all over prosecuting those who've committed things that are still crimes, and I'd love it if we could lock all the malefactors up, but that may not be plausible.

    I'd settle for civil suits against these people with massive punitive damages.

  •  Mike, you are so right, as always. (0+ / 0-)

    The voice of reason and good sense.  It's good to hear you roar.  

    ps I've seen the tv clips of the anti-mike moore movie that is out or coming out, and I hope you are planning a law suit of some kind.  Those clips look to me like they are inciting violence.  Can you imagine if such a scene was played in a movie with GWB instead of MM being the one getting threatened and slapped?  It is really obnoxious, offensive, and threatening.  

    Hooray for Joy and Whoopie!

    by jjellin on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:53:13 PM PDT

  •  #3 is the worst idea ever (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If you thought the American people didn't like the idea of "bailing out" the financial market, they definitely won't like the idea of bailing out the people down the street who bought a house they couldn't afford.

    •  if the option are: (0+ / 0-)

      A: An empty house that pays no taxes and attracts crime

      B: A house that had to subsidized

      People will opt for B. In my parents town there are 175 houses in foreclosure. Brand new houses are havens for gangs.

      My parents' taxes have gone up to pay for bonds the school bought to increase its size on expected growth. The growth isn't there, the tax base isn't there, my parents pay for developers overdeveloping, bankers over mortgaging, and people buying homes they couldn't afford because prices were skyrocketing.

      My dad is pissed. But the houses are already built. The local school bonds are already there.

      If the economy is going to suck for years, then something needs to be done. Or else there will be these large crime ridden abandoned houses all over that will suck up police efforts and return nothing.

      •  If option B (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wa ma

        I'll "accidently" go to default on my loan.

        Step 1 - "Oh, I couldn't afford payments!"

        Step 2 - "Here's 100,000 dollars"

        Step 3 - "Thanks!"

        Step 4 - Begin paying loan again.

        Bad idea.

        •  So.. (0+ / 0-)

          Let acres of $200,000 houses sit empty?

          My parents are paying the increase in taxes already. They have to pay for the water lines, gas lines, roads. They have to pay for the increase in school size that will now not appear.

          Either give my parents money to pay for the local tax increase they now have to pay because our government screwed up or put people in those empty houses.

          Or option C. Level the houses.

          Plant corn.

          It is rich farmland.

          But do something that will actually help someone other Wall Street wonks.

          My parents had nothing to do with this shit, but are paying local taxes because of it.

          They have to deal with increased crime.

          You have a magical solution?

  •  !!!!!!! DIGG IT !!!!!!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mojo workin


  •  Moore is half right. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cassandra Waites, MMW

    He's right about making the plutocrats pay for their own mess.  Period.

    But his apologia for universal home ownership, and denial of any borrower responsibility, is just hogwash. There's no reason for all Americans to own their own homes, and there's no reason for all Americans to seek big suburban/exurban homes, any more than they should all seek the largest SUV.  Moore is stuck at an untenable halfway point between real progressivism, which means a critical look at our cultural norms, and Norman Rockwell backwards-looking conservatism.  He wants a semi-socialist version of the 1950s, minus the racism.  I can't accompany him on that nostalgia trip.

    -5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"

    by Rich in PA on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 06:07:51 PM PDT

  •  Yay for Michael Moore! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aitchdee, gph11

    but one problem:

    On #3, how do we separate the homeowners who are truly in an unfortunate situation beyond their control from the people who gambled and lost?  

    Plenty of people during the housing boom were knowingly buying houses they couldn't afford, or buying ones they marginally could afford in order to 'flip' them and turn a profit.  These folks bet on rising home prices, and for those that were still holding when the crash started, they bet wrong.  Now they owe big on mortgages, but it's not like the system failed them.  I oppose bailing them out with my money as much as I oppose bailing out some Wall Street CEO.  

    It turns out that Bush IS a uniter... he united the good half of the country virulently against him.

    by fizziks on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 06:12:58 PM PDT

    •  It's tough (0+ / 0-)

      But I feel very strongly about it.

      I worked my butt off to keep my credit good, and be responsible with my finances.  Our family COULD have gotten a bigger house (much bigger) but we wouldn't have been able to afford it.

      So we didn't get it.

      Unfortunately, many Americans get that bigger home, even though they shouldn't.

    •  You do it (0+ / 0-)

      just the way MM said you do it: you bail out only those foreclosing/forclosed homes that are/were being used as primary residents.

      I know a guy, a friend of a friend, who's a highrollin' house flipper: clever little shit--not a scruple to his name. I have no doubt that guys like him would try to find a way to make out like all his houses are primary, so the rubric and the enforcement would indeed need to be strict & unyielding (and potentially as invasive) as Nurse Rachet. But--I think it could be done.

      Unfortunately (understatement of the century), none of this will be paid any heed simply because of its source.

      God bless our tinfoil hearts.

      by aitchdee on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:13:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But some people gambled with their primary (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:


        Plenty of the people who were trying to flip were planning to live somewhere for a few years and then flip it.  Also, there were plenty of people who weren't necessarily looking to flip short term but still bought a way too expensive house as their primary residence, ie they made a very bad investment decision.

        It turns out that Bush IS a uniter... he united the good half of the country virulently against him.

        by fizziks on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:20:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I Agree (0+ / 0-)

    I think you are right Michael Moore. These robber barons should be dragged out in the street and shot to death and then deficate on their blotted bodies. But then again I am against the death penalty so I figure life in prison will be a better punishment. I am so tired of the rich always getting away with everything.

  •  Not that most of your ideas aren't pretty good... (0+ / 0-)

    but, I must focus on this one.

    BAIL OUT THE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR HOMES, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BUILD AN EIGHTH HOME. There are 1.3 million homes in foreclosure right now. That is what is at the heart of this problem. So instead of giving the money to the banks as a gift, pay down each of these mortgages by $100,000.

    If we're going to do that, let me go ahead and default on my mortgage for the next couple of months.

    I want in on that action.  $100,000=sweet.  I'm only a teacher.

    Anyway...probably not a good idea, Michael.  Sorry.

  •  Housing (0+ / 0-)

    I live with my parents because I couldn't afford my condo anymore. We sold our condo and it is nothing but the grace of God that I am not homeless. I wish people who did these horrible things would pay the price for ruining economy. I wish for death and damnation to all those rich fat cats who ruined this economy and care for no one but themselves.

  •  I think it makes more sense (0+ / 0-)

    to pick a time period where people bought their homes and then give them an option to either lock in a low rate or lower their principal on their loan.

    BUT, everyone should have an opportunity to do this, not just those suffering, it would only be fair.  But it would be those people who bought between maybe 2005 and 2008.

    Just a suggestion.

    And if someone has fallen on hard times, lost their job, etc, they need help too.  I bet a lot of people bought what they could afford and got sick or fired and they just couldn't keep making ends meet.  It happens.  They can't sell for what it's worth, so then what?

  •  Thanks Michael. I like the cut of your jib and (0+ / 0-)

    I agree with you.

  •  Michael, they need you in Virginia! (0+ / 0-)

    Check this story - more media coverage can help shine the spotlight on the student voter suppression in Virginia, which Obama has turned into a swing state this year.

    ALERT: Student voter suppression in Virginia = big problem - UPDATED

    Please help them, Michael!

  •  Let's hear it for impractical plans (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    with no chance of success that would take years to get through the courts! I love plans like this. They are what made the Byzantine empire what it is today!

    McCain: Out of touch and out of time.

    by Anne Elk on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 06:43:01 PM PDT

    •  Let's hear it for artists and visionaries (0+ / 0-)

      who speak truth with humor and verve, boldness and brilliance.

      Of course, you're right--it'll never come to pass. But make no mistake: the heed that will not be paid to MM in this matter has nothing whatever to do with its being impractical--or Byzantine: good grief, what could be more Byzantine than what we have now? MM thinking is positively pellucid in this essay.

      God bless our tinfoil hearts.

      by aitchdee on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:25:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Senate just caved into Wall Street (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mickT, aitchdee, Sad Ham

    led by Kos's heroes: The Democrats.

    Fucking Pathetic.

    Obama used to be for single payer before he came out against it.

    by formernadervoter on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 06:46:26 PM PDT

  •  Agree on most points, HOWEVER.. (0+ / 0-)

    ...there are a lot of oversimplifications here.

  •  13 million children live in poverty (0+ / 0-)

    in America.

    Actually many more do since the government's criteria are so out of date.

    That's not a crisis that requires intervention on a grand scale. Hell, they're not a challenge to megacorp liquidity are they?

    The poor shall always be with us, right?

    What I don't see in this handout is any corporate accountability for institutions or their toxic leaders who created this wave of toxic paper, any serious relief for the working class in the form of mandatory mortgage revisions, any actual oversight with enforcement mechanisms for such important issues as asset prices--as far as I can tell the Sect'y of the Treasury can still pay what he want to whom he wants and that's that. Banks are encouraged by not required to alter the terms of mortgages. Sounds bogus to me.

    Henry Wallace (1944): "The American fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact."

    by TNThorpe on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:04:50 PM PDT

    •  Poverty in Children (0+ / 0-)

      I do feel very badly for the poor. I work at Wal-Mart and their was a homeless woman sleeping in her car. I bought her some food because I bet she was very hungry. She was very grateful for my help. I cannot allow anyone to be hungry or homeless as long as I am able to give. I so wish that those conservatives would at least pretend to give a damn about the poor. I mean while they give billions of dollars in tax breaks for the rich we have millions of children living in poverty as we speak of. I don't understand America at all. Why can't we solve the homeless and child poverty. Simple because most people don't want the problem solved since most poor are minorities and woman society doesn't give a damn about them. You can always tell the measure of freedom a society has by the amount of freedom their minorities or woman enjoy. And I can say that America does fall short of that desire.

  •  Bra - fucking - vo, Mr. Moore. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The best solution is the one which benefits the most Americans.

    I'd offer one minor adjustment.  Instead of bailing out individual homeowners to the tune of $100,000 per home (as many may be worth somewhat less than that amount), I suggest that we place a temporary moratorium on foreclosures, have those homes re-appraised, and allow the homeowner to begin paying their mortgage on that amount with a 30-year, fixed-rate mortgage capped at a 6% rate.  The "bailout" program can pick up the small financial difference between 6% and the current mortgage rate.

    By doing this, the cost to the "bailout" program would be even less, the homeowners would certainly benefit, and those who can't afford the home under even those circumstances can walk away without penalty and look for a home in their price range.

    Everything else in your plan should be blessed with the immortal words of Capt. Jean-Luc Picard, "Make it so!"

    Ever So Sincerely,
    Celtic Merlin

    Sorry I couldn't take your call. I'm using my cell phone to make pancakes. Please leave a message.

    by Celtic Merlin on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:05:07 PM PDT

  •  Michael, I agree with you as always (0+ / 0-)

    But we live in America.  You know - the land of almost free and the home of corporate Kleptocrats.  Try getting this passed by squishy in the middle Dems and batshit crazy Republicans.

    "Is this the United States Congress or the board of directors of Goldman Sachs?" -- Dennis Kucinich

    by noofsh on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:07:57 PM PDT

  •  Michael we all love you (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    but this is silly schlock you've written here.  yes, there are certainly people who should go to jail here, theoretically.  but the people trading these failed securities weren't breaking any laws, or really doing anything wrong in any legal sense.  just immoral.  not something that can be prosecuted.  

    something needs to be passed.  yak all you want about the money "going to the rich" - the fucking money is ours from either end of the bargain, and from either end of the bargain, we'll never see any of it.  since that is reality, let's just make sure to avoid massive economic collapse, which punishes the poor and needy far more than holding onto principle, for now.  soon we'll have an Obama presidency and majorities in both houses.  anything bad about this bill can be reversed and made much more sensible, with relative ease.

    can't people think 2, 3 months in advance anymore?

  •  I called my Senators (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Crazy like a fox
    and they voted yes anyway...cuz they do not care what I think or what 90% of their constituents think. Why? Cuz they don't have too...

    "it's never been about me; it's about you." Barack Obama

    by FloraAnne on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:17:31 PM PDT

  •  Brother (0+ / 0-)

    can you spare a dime?

    There is nothing wrong with faith. I have faith in science.

    by axman on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:17:41 PM PDT

  •  11. Establish a new world order (0+ / 0-)

    This is for all the folks who worry about liquidity.

    Large corporations and wealthy people can have a diverse currency portfolio, and clearly don't have to worry as much about a lack of liquidity as ordinary citizens.
    The reason they like to stoke fears about world government is simply that they don't want the rest of us to have the same buying power that they have.

    We need, at the very least, a single North American currency.

  •  I like most of it but 2c is not workable... (0+ / 0-)

    People rely on their dividends.

    We need to cap credit card rates to 15%.

    We need to freeze foreclosures and stop reseting (increasing) rates on mortgages.

    The top credit card rate is 29.99% for individuals
    and I think it is 33.0% for companies.

  •  I'm with you, dude. (0+ / 0-)

    Unfortunately...none of our elected officials' leadership has the cojones to stand up and fight for us. Even though we brought the House website down, and jammed all of their phone lines for two weeks.

    What will it take? Take the Fed, and make it a Government organization again.

    Rescind the Federal Reserve Act.

    Stop Picking My Pockets!

    by E Man on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:40:41 PM PDT

  •  The Senate just passed their bill. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    E Man, axman

    Tomorrow I'm going to call every Senator who voted yes  and ask them why the only thing they care about is the dollar.

    Which means they care about nothing because the dollar is worthless when this bailout goes through.

  •  This might make us feel a bit better (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    watch copy give ZEITGEIST the short term.

    Before we step up and get in their faces until they give us our COUNTRY BACK!

    Stop Picking My Pockets!

    by E Man on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:49:01 PM PDT

  •  Obama said he will revisit this bill once elected (0+ / 0-)

    and I believe the Progressive caucus has created enough impetus for Obama to HAVE to do this after the election because there are so many disagreeing with the current "rescue" bill- as apparently this bill will be a done deal Friday.

    In my household, my girlfriend is somewhat distrustful of Obama, (due to her Ron Paul supporter friends), and does not agree with me politically all the time. She likes Ron Paul's ( if you want to check it out)position instead of Obama's but I can't do anything about it.

    I support Obama as being intellectually honest, although I think he should recognize that bringing together a lot of upset progressives, independents, liberal Paulites, and even conservatives will be the right thing to do once he is in office. I hope he promotes the Progressive Caucus' DeFazio and Kucinich's ideas. This will subdue some of our conservative adversaries' venom and bring many divergent ideas together in this unusual case.

    Independents and conservatives sometimes have a lot in common with Progressives. Another prime example is that Independents and Paulites are very supportive of Progressives' desire to reform draconian drug and forfeiture laws.

    Black male incarceration rates: South Africa (1993 apartheid- considered racist) 851 per 100k. USA (2006) 4,789 per 100k.

    by watch copy give ZEITGEIST on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 07:59:36 PM PDT

  •  Being rich in America is not illegal (0+ / 0-)

    Even though I like your proposals, I find them completely irrealistic. As much as I dislike Wall Street and what it stands for, I'm pretty sure most of what was done that caused the crisis was legal. Immoral and irresponsible but LEGAL. So it's gonna be hard to put anyone in jail.
    Bill Gates could probably bailout the US by himself. But should he? He didn't cause this.
    The whole system needs to change and I hope the rest of the world (like the small european countries like mine where this crisis is destroying any hope of economic growth for years to come) will pressure the US into cleaning up their act.
    Electing Obama would be a step in the right direction.
    Changing the mentalities of Americans towards credit would be pretty healthy too.

    "J'parle pas aux cons ça les instruit" - Michel Audiard (I don't discuss with morons for fear of educating them)

    by kadyn on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:00:16 PM PDT

    •  you're wrong, people commited crimes (0+ / 0-)

      I agree, being rich in America is not illegal but that's not really a shocking statement considering it's the rich people that own this country, that own our government.

      These people control who gets elected, policies, even legislation.

      You'll have to excuse me if I'm skeptical about the idea that rich people in this country are innocent until proven guilty.  I think what we're seeing right completely refutes that idea.

      McCain does not support the troops

      by erin r on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:14:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Bravo Michael (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    watch copy give ZEITGEIST

    This is absolutely the way to go. You've made some of the same points I have in comments here, but so much better.

    The Senate, a group of elite millionaires ruling an anti-democrat body (35 million Californians get the same representation there as less than 300,000 Alaskans, and similar ratios apply to dozens of other states, disenfranchising millions in big population, more urban states), have tried to get a bailout passed for their buddies on Wall Street.

    Back to the House we go. It is a much more representative body, and we must organize to get them to throw out this bad deal brewing.

    War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

    by Valtin on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:02:37 PM PDT

  •  bailout shmailout... (0+ / 0-)

    I call bullshit! There are too many conflicts of interest involved in this bill for any of it to be legit. Thank you Michael Moore for a much better version!

    I'm not happy with Obama's stance, but if this is what he thinks he needs to do to win, then I'm all for whatever it takes. With the election only a month away, I don't care if he uses the $700 billion himself to buy out every last undecided voter.

    'No Way, No How, No McCain!' - HRC

    by Cleopatra on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:04:00 PM PDT

  •  While this may all seem complex... (0+ / 0-)

    ... it's actually pretty simple. All we have to consider is one thing: Does Bush support or oppose it?

    That's right... a litmus test. If Bush supports it, there's an excellent chance it's BAD. If he opposes it, there's an excellent chance it's GOOD.

    In this case, Bush supports the bailout. Hence, even without doing loads of research and asking common sense questions, it's pretty clear the bailout bill is a BAD thing for anyone who's not like Bush.


    And Michael, just wanna thank you for everything you've done for this country! And I'm still holding out hope that, when he takes office, Obama will start the gears moving that'll eventually lead to the prosecution and imprisonment of Slime Bush and his buddies for all their crimes. When that happens, YOU, Mike, will be given a good deal of the credit for keeping us focused on how purely EVIL these people are.

    "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

    by ratmach on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:12:29 PM PDT

  •  I love your idealism, but (0+ / 0-)

    I believe that, unfortunately, more people will have to suffer before meaningful change will be possible in our country.

    And that is why I am rooting for failure.

    Masochism or tough love?  I'm not sure.

  •  I may share some responsability for (0+ / 0-)

    item 10 of Moore's plan. I emailed him yesterday, in response to his letter that had been posted, suggesting that he come out in favor of a national bank.

    We cannot win a war crime - Dancewater, July 27, 2008

    by unclejohn on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:28:46 PM PDT

  •  YOU HEAR THAT CONGRESS??!!??!?!!?? (0+ / 0-)

    you're about to be memorialized in history by the next Michael Moore film if you prove to be as stupid as it appears you are willing to be.

    I agree with virtually all.  Especially the ownership for bailout exchange.  They were chanting on Wall Street yesterday: "You broke it, you own it, the bailout is bullshit."
    "We bail it we bought it, we'll tell YOU how to run it"

    Thanks, Mike!

    simplicity is the most difficult of all things

    by RichardWoodcockII on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:44:00 PM PDT

  •  Senators Voting “Nay” on Federal Int (0+ / 0-)

    My senator! My Maria! Thank you Sen. maria Cantwell.

    Senators Voting “Nay” on Federal Intervention in the Financial Markets
    Wednesday, Oct. 1, 2008

    Sen. Wayne Allard (R-CO)
    Sen. John Barrasso (R-WY)
    Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS)
    Sen. Jim Bunning (R-KY)  
    Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA)
    Sen. Thad Cochran (R-MS)
    Sen. Mike Crapo (R-ID)
    Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC)
    Sen. Elizabeth Dole (R-NC)
    Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-ND)
    Sen. Michael Enzi (R-WY)
    Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI)
    Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK)
    Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD)
    Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
    Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL)
    Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS)
    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
    Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL)
    Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL)
    Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
    Sen. Jon Tester (D-MT)
    Sen. David Vitter (R-LA)
    Sen. Roger Wicker (R-MS)
    Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR)

    15 Republicans voted no; 10 Democrats voted no
    40 Democrats voted aye; 34 Republicans vote aye

    George Bush dug us into a deep hole. . . John McCain was carrying the shovel! ~Barack Obama

    by mrobinson on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 08:57:10 PM PDT

  •  Wait. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    So couples who make more than a million should pay a 10% surcharge tax?  Are you suggesting that those are the folks who got us into this fucking mess?

    My wife and I are both physicians.  We don't fit into the above category.  It still pisses me off, though.  I consider myself a proud Democrat and progressive.  I gladly pay my share of taxes, and consider it a responsibility and honor.  Every other physician I know is Republican.  I don't know of one who feels a broader responsibility to anyone else except themselves.

    We have one car each, not 8 or 13.  We have two mortgages, one on a house that we can't sell because of this debacle.  We have two pre-school aged kids.  We both have educational debt that totals in the low 6-digits (each).  Our "portfolio" for what its worth, is taking a beating, just like everybody else.

    I see patient's without insurance on a daily basis, and serve in a state-run "charity" hospital for pennies on the dollar.  All while wondering when our elected leaders will get the balls to pass universal health care.

    Yes, I consider myself rich.  We are in the top 1% of taxpayers.  I acknowledge that.  I also acknowledge that "to whom much is given, much is required," and try to live that, every day.

    But to suggest that I bankrupt myself and my family to contribute to the "rescue" of these wall-street fat cats, because of buffoonery not of my making makes my blood boil.  Frankly, if that is the cornerstone of your plan, you can go fuck yourself.

    Standing cool and composed before a million universes

    by pauldean on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:04:38 PM PDT

  •  I disagree on C (0+ / 0-)

    I don't think that everyone who owns stock should give up dividends. There are working and middle class people who do own stocks who had nothing do with the financial meltdown.

    I also don't think that we should cap CEO salaries. If they are doing well, and if the shareholders want to pay them as much as they want, I don't have a problem with it.

    I don't want a "peoples' bank" either. I don't the government should run a nationalized bank. I'm not a socialist. I still support capitalism with decent regulations.

  •  I disagree on A as well (0+ / 0-)

    I don't believe in a surcharge tax on the rich. It seems like many people here just resent the rich in general.

    Perhaps what I would support, though, is an increase in the capital gains tax for those who engage in multi-million dollar trades.

  •  Why no comments/replies from Moore? (0+ / 0-)

    I don't like to recommend diaries where the diarist won't participate in the comments. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see Moore doing any of that here.

    Don't particularly like, hard for me to trust, drive by diarists.

    We have to fight like hell, or we'll be in hell.

    by thinkdouble on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 09:37:36 PM PDT

    •  Be careful! (0+ / 0-)

      Don't try applying the site rules to our celebrity diarists.

      I'd love to see if this same diary, paraphrased by a "nobody," would have made the rec list at all.

      "Can I just ask a question? What is Fox News, it's just a Parade of Propaganda, isn't it? It's just a Festival of Ignorance." --Lee Camp, FOX News guest

      by twalling on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 04:51:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What in the hell is going on? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I got home after 13 hours of work and heard the (albeit expected news) about the bailout on the drive home.  I thought that maybe my fellow lefties would share my righteous fury with our senate.  Why are the majority of the people on this site still worrying about Sarah f@cking Palin and stupid sh*t about John McCain?  What in the hell does any of this election matter if we bankrupt the country for what looks like eternity?  I don't want to pay for Wallstreet's mistakes for the rest of my taxpaying life.  They should be left to bail their own rich, lazy, and crooked asses out.

    Would another four years of McCain/Bush be horrendous?  Yes.  But what in the hell does it matter if Obama and the rest of the Democrats are spineless and unwilling to take the bold action that will be needed to fix our economy and end global warming?  Where is our next Roosevelt?  Where is our bold economic plan?  Why are we worrying about bullsh*t rather than demanding that they stand up and fight for us?

  •  you are pretty much my hero (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I remember watching one of your first movies when I was 19, can't remember which one, but it had a profound effect on my political views.

    McCain does not support the troops

    by erin r on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:05:24 PM PDT

  •  Maybe snappy (0+ / 0-)

    could save the day?

  •  Mr. Moore, I appreciate your thoughts. (0+ / 0-)

    You have given some time to formulate your points, and I will not disagree with you overall.  I especially agree with you on #6.  I do not fully agree with you on the some of the others, but my thoughts are far too detailed to write here in fewer than 10,000 words.

    I would very much appreciate the opportunity to speak with you for a couple of hours during the next day or two.  I believe that we share some common ideas, but some of mine differ with yours.

    Please, if you get the time, give me a call at 859 626 5029.  I have no fear of posting my telephone number, so it is available for everyone here.  I might even get more interesting calls than the dreaded telemarketers that make up the bulk of my rings.

    I am very serious.  We need to talk.

    Warmest regards,


    In do not know everything, but I can learn anything. -6.25, -6.05

    by Translator on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:49:50 PM PDT

  •  Instead of 3. this plan sounds better (0+ / 0-)

    How to shore up America’s crumbling housing market

    The large and growing number of homeowners with negative equity will increase the rate of defaults and foreclosures and therefore drive the downward spiral of prices. Defaults are likely to accelerate as the ratio of the debt to the home value rises. While a homeowner who owes 10 per cent more than the value of a house may continue to service the mortgage, when the excess debt reaches 30 per cent he is much more likely to default. Each such default puts downward pressure on existing prices, increasing the like­lihood of further defaults. It is this spiral that threatens the American economy and the global financial system.

    This is a difficult problem and there are no easy solutions. I have proposed a programme of "mortgage replacement loans" that I believe would stop the downward spiral of house prices. The basic idea is to provide an incentive to stop defaults among those who now have positive equity but are vulnerable to a further price decline. The federal government would offer every homeowner with a mortgage the opportunity to replace 20 per cent of that mortgage with a low interest government loan – up to a loan limit of $80,000 (€55,000, £44,000) – that reflects the government’s lower borrowing rate. Creditors would be required to accept this partial mortgage pay-down and to reduce the monthly interest and principal by the same 20 per cent. That mortgage replacement loan would not be collateralised by the house but would be a loan that the government could enforce by lodging a claim on an individual who does not pay.

    With the mortgage replacement loan, people who now have a mortgage equal to 90 per cent of their house value would see that mortgage fall to just 72 per cent of the house value, implying that it would take a very unlikely price fall of more than 28 per cent to push those individuals into negative equity.

  •  oh come on (0+ / 0-)
    yo, i'm down with your plan

    but it's totally disingenuous to compare clinton's 127 bil surplus with bush's 10 tril debt..

    the us national debt has been racked up for years. clinton did it too. certainly bush has exacerbated the problem... but it's not like we didn't owe money during the vaunted ages of billary

    It is difficult to get the news from poems, yet men die miserably every day for lack of what is found there. --William Carlos Williams

    by Richard Platypus on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 11:26:28 PM PDT

  •  Obama should have voted against the bail out (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    instead the dems in both the House and the Senate should have supported this wonderful and thoughtful plan. Instead of giving Bush and Paulson what they asked for the dems should be working hard to help the Americans who have lost their homes not the big companies on Wall Street that pushed and lobbied Sen. Gramm and McCain for deregulation and got what they wanted only to find out that it has led us to the financial crisis we are in. The American taxpayer should not have to bail out big companies and CEOs. What does it tell you when both McCain and Bush support this bail out?

    "The fundamentals of our economy are sound." John McCain

    by Probus on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 01:47:49 AM PDT

  •  how 'bout we get Warren Buffet's terms? (0+ / 0-)

    He negotiated a pretty good deal with GS; we ought to get the same terms with anybody we invest in.

    #3: ensure network neutrality; #2: ensure electoral integrity; #1: ensure ecosystemic sustainability.

    by ivote2004 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 02:04:03 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for posting this on Kos :) (0+ / 0-)

    "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson

    by delillo2000 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 02:41:58 AM PDT

  •  Wow!! Great Diary, Great Ideas. (0+ / 0-)

    Sorry I didn't see it when it first came out.

    Please note that None of the major candidates and none of the Congressional Leaders of either party is for any of these really very good ideas.

    Doesn't that make you onder why we get so heated up trying to promote "our" candidates over "Their" candidates.

    None of them is really the peoples candidate.

    They are all K Streets candidates.

  •  I AGREE!!! (0+ / 0-)

    It would be heaven

  •  thanks for he nod to bernie, my senator! (0+ / 0-)

    michael i think you're a smart man, and follow the same ideals as bernie sometimes. you put people first, and not politics. there are people on this site that mock him for it as it doesn't lead to much support in the halls of washington dc. but we in vermont love that bird-nest haired old guy. and why the hell out of the 600ish representatives we've got in washington, nobody's  proposing a plan like yours, or the countless other plans proposed on websites like this? plans that hold accountable those responsible for gambling with our nation's economy, and include provisions to recoup any tax dollars spent. we need more of that.

    Stop using "It's the ---, stupid" as a blog title, and I'll stop thinking you're stupid. Deal?

    by andycon on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 04:53:04 AM PDT

  •  To Michael Moore: You are not fat! (0+ / 0-)

    I want you to know that I support the ideas you present. Also I saw the trailer for American Carol and you are not that fat!

  •  400X (0+ / 0-)

    That is obscene. I mean really do people really need to make so much money off of the sweat and hard work of their disadvanged workers. I can tell that America is going the way of Rome. We have gotten to big for our britches and I believe that we are headed for a finnical hell when hundreds of corporations will be falling apart and the government will have no choice but to step in a bail them all out. I fear for the future of this country.

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