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On Sunday, John McCain launched the final attack of his campaign, a fraudulent assault on Barack Obama that serves as a fitting reminder of the fundamental dishonesty not only of his own campaign, but also of the dishonesty of his allies in the right-wing propaganda establishment: Matt Drudge and FOX News.

All you need to know to understand the video is that the Drudge, FOX, and the McCain campaign joined forces with Newsbusters to push a story that the San Francisco Chronicle had concealed an eleven month old recording that supposedly contained devastating audio of Barack Obama proposing to bankrupt the entire coal industry.

Not only was that story false (more detail below), but it turns out that Barack Obama and John McCain have the same position on clean coal technology (update: for more on why clean coal is kind of like a healthy cigarette, see Brad Johnson's excellent post on the topic), and Ohio's Republican senator said McCain's plan to fight global warming would "put coal out of business." Here's the video:

::: :::

Here's the facts that the McCain-Drudge-FOX axis of weasel does not want you to know: The Chronicle had not concealed the recording, which had been on the newspaper's website all along. And rather than reveal some sinister scheme, what it actually demonstrated was that Barack Obama supported clean coal technology -- aposition he shares with none other than John McCain.

Despite the fact that both candidates support clean coal technology, the McCain campaign tried to make the case that Barack Obama wanted to take away jobs from coal country in Ohio and Pennsylvania, and both Drudge and FOX were happy to oblige.

But just three years ago on the floor of the United States Senate, John McCain's Republican colleague George Voinovich of Ohio took to the floor to argue against a proposal by McCain to curb greenhouse gas emissions. McCain's proposal, Voinovich said, would "put coal out of business" and cost thousands of jobs, an argument that McCain did not contest.

In fact, McCain agreed that his plan would require sacrifice, but he also argued (correctly) that in the long-run, America would be better off. In other words, he made the exact same arguments as Barack Obama -- and as you can see above, it was all on video.

The clips I used from FOX were actually attacking Barack Obama, but the fact that you could just as easily have swapped McCain in place of Obama reveals how their media enterprise is really a propaganda operation in which political figures are nothing more than character actors taking up space in their pre-ordained dramatic narrative.

They aren't dealing with reality, they are trying to construct a new reality. For years, they've been able to maintain political power by doing just that, but now that the reality of their disastrous governance has caught up to them, their ability to lie their way to victory has been severely damaged.

For better or for worse, it's a lesson they still haven't learned. They still think they can fake their way through it.

But that's not really the important thing. The important thing is that we are overcoming their grip on power. And for that, the world is a better place.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:30 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Fix the title? n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MariaWr
  •  The McCain people are scared. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KingOneEye, MariaWr, axel000, Jed L
    •  And they are behaving like... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Christie

      ...a frightened animal - lashing out irrationally and indiscriminately. It's a little pathetic to watch.

      However, we must not be complacent AFTER the election. The media will still be there, and they will still be lying and misinforming the public. Fox News will not become less influential as a matter of course. We have to fight them every day.

      Remember, they got where they are during the Clinton administration, so having a Democrat in the White House means nothing by itself.

      ~
      ••• FREE McCain-NOPE Stickers With Every T-Shirt •••
      ~

      by KingOneEye on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:44:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Double plus irrational (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KingOneEye
        Do these fuckknuckles still not know about the YouTubes?

        Faux Noise isn't going anywhere, but it'd be nice if the other "news" corps started openly mocking them for their propaganda shilling.  Faux Noise are only going to lose their viewers when "They said on Fox last night..." gets a watercooler chorus of ridicule.

        --
        Proud White Guilt Ridden Socialist Fake Anti American Ex Pat for Obama.

        by DemCurious on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:07:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Could we eliminate the word "complacent" (0+ / 0-)

        from our vocabularies? Democrats NEED to be a tad more "complacent." We are generally convinced we are going to be beaten down no matter what and need to stop that.

        We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

        by anastasia p on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:08:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  NO - We cannot eliminate the word "compalcent" (0+ / 0-)
          1. Contented to a fault; self-satisfied and unconcerned:  He had become complacent after years of success.
          1. Eager to please; complaisant.

          Do you really think we have more of that? There are elements in our society that are attempting to beat us down and we must not allow them to get away with it. We must not grit our teeth, look the other way and say, "Oh it's just a little beating."

          ~
          ••• FREE McCain-NOPE Stickers With Every T-Shirt •••
          ~

          by KingOneEye on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:45:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  I wish he would put coal out of (14+ / 0-)

    business.  Does anyone remember CtL.  Environmentalists have criticized Obama for being too sympathetic to continued use of coal.

    Clean coal is an oxymoron.

    "What we've seen the last few days is nothing less than the final verdict on an economic philosophy that has completely failed." -- Barack Obama

    by TomP on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:31:59 AM PST

    •  Environmentalist criticized Obama because (7+ / 0-)

      of his support of "clean coal."

      Clinton, Obama Coal Comments Criticized by Environmental Group

      Presidential candidates’ parroting of coal industry talking points raise questions about their commitment to clean energy; Clinton even equivocates on mountaintop removal

      WASHINGTON, DC - March 20 - A national environmental group criticized both Democratic presidential candidates today for recent pro-coal comments.

      Senator Hillary Clinton expressed enthusiasm for coal and failed to condemn mountaintop removal during an interview yesterday on West Virginia Public Radio. Today, Senator Barack Obama delivered a speech in West Virginia advocating so-called "clean coal" as a solution to global warming.

      "These comments raise serious questions about whether the Democratic candidates are as committed to clean energy as they claim to be," Friends of the Earth Action President Brent Blackwelder said. "Coal is not clean—period. And it is especially dirty and damaging when it is mined through the mountaintop removal process, in which mountains are literally blown to pieces, wiping vast swaths of nature off the map and polluting valleys, streams and rivers."

      commondreams

      FoE Action endorsed Obama in the primary and the general election, but they remain critical of "clean coal."  

      National Environmental Group Endorses Barack Obama for President

      May 03, 2008

      For Immediate Release

      Friends of the Earth Action cites senator’s stand for real energy solutions instead of sham Clinton-McCain ‘gas tax holiday’ as key reason for endorsement

      WASHINGTON, D.C.—Friends of the Earth Action, a national environmental group based in Washington, D.C., announced today that it is endorsing Senator Barack Obama to be the nation’s next president.

      "We endorse Senator Obama because we believe he is the best candidate for the environment," said Friends of the Earth Action President Brent Blackwelder. "The ‘gas tax holiday’ debate is a defining moment in the presidential race. The two other candidates responded with sham solutions that won’t ease pain at the pump, but Senator Obama refused to play that typical Washington game. Instead, Obama called for real solutions that would make transportation more affordable and curb global warming. He showed the courage and candor we expect from a president."

      FoE Action

      "What we've seen the last few days is nothing less than the final verdict on an economic philosophy that has completely failed." -- Barack Obama

      by TomP on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:36:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Necessary pandering (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        A Siegel, happybumblebee

        When you're talking about clean coal, you might as well be talking about your progress on a time machine.

        But it's one of those things you have to say. Yes, it's highly stupid. But it's flag-pin stupid.

        •  it's a sad thing when you can't tell the truth (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP

          in a political campaign. This is not the only issue misrepresented in order to get a few extra votes in key states.

          This message has been intercepted by the US Government. Report all suspicious activity to your dear leader. Fear the non-believers.

          by minorityusa on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:51:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  People get the government they deserve... (4+ / 0-)

            What's the estimate, 130 million people possibly voting tomorrow?

            And how many millions of them are bogged down in talk about William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright and flag pins?

            Worst financial crisis in 70+ years. Several trillion dollars of "wealth" evaporated in a couple of weeks in September. Home foreclosures, job losses, businesses failing... China is dumping melamine and lead into everything they sell us, the dollar is worth more as kindling than as money, we're stuck in two wars with no clear goal in sight, global warming is real and here and a problem -- TODAY...

            What else?

            All of that shit and people are talking about flag pins and Jeremiah Wright? Listen, I think that John McCain has an interesting story to tell about being a POW. But when I go to pay my grocery bill, I'm not writing "John McCain was a POW" in my memo box on the check. When I apply for a job, I don't mention the POW status or 9/11 or flag pins or who Obama's preacher is/was on my resume.

            So...yeah, it does suck that people get lost in the minutae. But they do. And you have to gloss over that crap so you can actually govern.

      •  A small minority of mining is Mt Top Removal. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, ppl can fly, happybumblebee

        Most Appalachian coal mining is underground ny union miners.  Mountain top removal is an atrocity. It needs to be outlawed, which would be beneficial for the environment, and would lead to more union miner jobs.

        Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

        by bigtimecynic on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:15:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Like most older energy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP
      technologies, it'll take time to remove coal from energy production.  Over 50% of the country's energy is produced by coal-fired plants.  And natgas energy production is both inefficient and unsustainable.  Of course, there's always nuclear (ducks).

      Obama is a realist. Coal is in the mix for the next decade, at least, and legacy plants can't be replaced quickly.

      When "stupidity" suffices, why search for any other reason?

      by wozzle on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:38:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP, happybumblebee

      Coal needs to go.  I've been hoping that he will change his attitude on coal after he gets in office.

    •  watch the excellent FRONTLINE show (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP

      This message has been intercepted by the US Government. Report all suspicious activity to your dear leader. Fear the non-believers.

      by minorityusa on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:56:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  In theory, yes (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      A Siegel, ppl can fly
      In practice, we need something to get us to the massive HVDC grid upgrade necessary to shunt renewable power around the country.  Without that capacity, solar and wind are a crock, because we need enough reliable baseline capacity available locally at a moment's notice.

      Pick nuclear or coal to provide it.  We've now left it so late that there is no other viable choice.  Being angry about that - and I am raging - doesn't alter it.

      --
      Proud White Guilt Ridden Socialist Fake Anti American Ex Pat for Obama.

      by DemCurious on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:04:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Coal is the main ingredient in coke (0+ / 0-)

      (not the drink) which is essential to steel manufacturing.  Coke requires high quality coal, almost all of which comes from unionized underground coal mines in Appalachia.  US Steel Corp is currently investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in a new/modified cokeworks outside of Pittsburgh that is essential to the vitality of the American steel industry. If the coal companies go under, it will be devestating to American jobs and industry because of the ripple effects.

      Furthermore, HUGE deposits of natural gas in these coal areas are on the cusp of being made available through new drilling technolgies. Google "Marcellus Shale" and you'll see what I mean. Much of this is tied to the coal industry. And the last time I checked, natural gas was the most "friendly" carbon-based energy source. So this is a good thing. Be careful what you wish for, and don't let your emotions get the best of you.

      Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

      by bigtimecynic on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:14:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Clarification... (0+ / 0-)

        I meant to say the natural gas is the more friendly fossil fuel, not the most friendly carbon-based fuel. Sources such as biodiesel are carbon based, just not a fossil fuel.  Cellulosic ethanol will be great when it is no longer a pipe dream like clean coal.

        Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

        by bigtimecynic on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:21:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  there is no such thing as clean coal (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      A Siegel

      One of the concerns I have had over the years of the campaign is Obama's consistent statements about 'clean coal' and ethynol; and his statements on solar and wind are almost an afterthought.  Let's not forget he is from a corn state, IL.  they have been getting gov't. subsidies for ethynol for decades.  I continue to be concerned that Obama and the lazy spineless Dems will keep these 2 forms of energy (except that ethynol uses more energy than it produces) and not move as quickly as they need to on wind and solar.  McCain was very good on this issue, but whichever dybbuk is now in possession of his brain changed his mind on this issue.

      Again, I really encourage you all to get real about this candidate.  Remember his vote on FISA?  We all hope he is elected but there are real problems that I hope all you Obamakins will keep on him about.

  •  There is no such thing as clean coal. (16+ / 0-)

    We need to face that reality. We must stop the destruction of the land, the water, the streams, and the mountaintops of Appalachia, as one of the first orders of business of the new administration.

  •  They have the same position: clean coal (8+ / 0-)

    would be nice.  Too bad it doesn't exist yet.  It's a gleam in the engineers' eyes, so far, and if ever realized will encompass enormous overhead costs.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:32:44 AM PST

  •  Truer words... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, MariaWr, axel000

    You write:

    The clips I used from FOX were actually attacking Barack Obama, but the fact that you could just as easily have swapped McCain in place of Obama reveals how their media enterprise is really a propaganda operation in which political figures are nothing more than character actors taking up space in their pre-ordained dramatic narrative.

    These people are now out of their depth with the establishment of dKos etc. as monitor on their "news cycle". That they perpetrate this fraudulent display so blatantly is a sign of our times. It's like playing dolls with a dollhouse, completely childish fantasy.

    Thanks for your essay here, it's a great way to start my day.

    Expressions of the form "a=b" are mere representational devices. They state nothing about the meanings of signs "a" and "b".

    by LRLine on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:33:34 AM PST

    •  I read the story Fox has (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      A Siegel, LRLine
      on it's site. It isn't as one sided as I would expect. And the comments are anti-McCain, mostly. This story won't do what McCain wants. It will only add to the pile of bullsh*t that we can all point to that led to his losing this election by a humiliating margin.

      John McCain Just Your Average Guy. And He's Got The Cars To Prove It!

      by kitebro on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 11:26:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Vannity was pushing this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    abraxas, MariaWr, Pannich

    hard on his show last night.  It's been a challenge to explain it to my less-than-informed neighbors here in SC.

  •  It is a tragedy that O & M have the same policy (6+ / 0-)

    on the mythical "clean coal".

    Something we need to pressure the Obama administration about.

    •  Could've been worse... (0+ / 0-)

      They could agree on the "50 new nukes" idea. I'd like to know why Obama didn't absolutely crush McCain on that.

      Look, I'm neutral on nuclear power. I hear the arguments on both sides. But McCain's idea was idiotic.

      We haven't built a new nuke in this country since...what, 1979? But we're going to build 50 in four years? And we'll be getting the money to do that...where? And do the people who live near these new sites know about it? And are we nationalizing the electrical industry? Because, Sen. McCain, you aren't running to be the CEO of a power company...you're running for president of the US.

      You could go on and on for two hours about the stupidity of that plan.

  •  Stuff like this is why the GOP has lost me (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MariaWr

    n/m

  •  Obama sponsored a bill (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hummingbird, MariaWr, Radical def

    that allocated funding for research and development of coal-to-liquid fuels--an expensive and very dirty form of coal. He could hardly be accused of wanting to "put coal out of business."

    Rather, the concern is that he will be too supportive of "clean coal" (which doesn't exist) rather than moving to phase out coal altogether.

  •  Obama just forgot he was in Florida (11+ / 0-)

    and started talking about Ohio.  The crowd laughed and shouted so that he caught himself.  He said, 'I've been traveling too much."  Got a big laugh.  THen he said, "well they've been saying that up in Ohio, too." and got a bigger laugh.

    This guy is so good on his feet.  Even when he screws up he turns it into a positive.  But methinks he is also frickin lutely exhausted.

  •  That's the GOP for you...if you don't like (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RickMassimo, vacuumslayer, dotalbon

    the truth, make something up.
    Let's see, Dems are libruls (proudly), anti- Christian (been a church member for 45 years), socialistic (I share my tomatoes w/ neighbors), baby killers (healthcare? go fish) that hate America.

    Sounds like all the hating comes from the right.
    Why do they hate their fellow Americans so much?
    Why lie so readily at the drop of a hat? Why would I want someone that lied to my face in office?

    Whatever the Repuglicans say, the truth is the opposite.

    by MariaWr on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:35:51 AM PST

    •  Do we want a POW liar? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MariaWr

      Why lie so readily at the drop of a hat? Why would I want someone that lied to my face in office?

      We're supposed to want him because he's a POW and the Son of Admirals. That's John McCain, lies every time his mouth is open.

      Al Gore talked about "inconvenient truths". Well, if something's inconvenient, John McCain just pretends that it's not true. If Joe the Plumber turns out to get a tax cut from Obama, McCain just keep saying that Obama will raise his taxes even though it isn't true.

  •  Clean Coal Isn't n/t (4+ / 0-)
  •  Its beyond hail mary time for them (5+ / 0-)

    This is more like a 20-25 lateral end of game kickoff return...

    "Polls are like crack, political activists know they're bad for them but they read them anyways."-Unknown

    by skywaker9 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:36:11 AM PST

  •  So preposterous that no one would believe it (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bagman, dotalbon, MariaWr
    Halloween is over ..stop dressing up as a goblin..
  •  I'm trying very hard not to be giddy. eom (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon, MariaWr

    I'm just here to give DK hipster cred. "Vote" McCain

    by vacuumslayer on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:36:35 AM PST

  •  The coal thing has one meaning. (5+ / 0-)

    Pennsylvania.

  •  One of the ironies here (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skywaker9, dotalbon, MariaWr

    is that the San Francisco Chronicle, once a proudly liberal paper in a pro-union city, has become in recent years a typical purveyor of crackpot conservatism, calling unions "special interests" and quoting flacks from, as they put it, the "non-partisan" American Enterprise Institute.

  •  McCain must be surging (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon, MariaWr

    I mean he drew four figures in Tampa today, barely...

    "Polls are like crack, political activists know they're bad for them but they read them anyways."-Unknown

    by skywaker9 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:37:40 AM PST

  •  Both Candidates Pander to Big Coal (7+ / 0-)

    It's really very strange to see the candidates arguing over who has the most panderific agenda for the coal industry.

    Oh well. Just one more day.

  •  Chron editorial skewers Palin on this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon, MariaWr
    http://www.sfgate.com/...
    First of all, that audiotape is not "just now surfacing." It has been available for the world to hear - and was heavily promoted by us - ever since our Jan. 17 editorial board meeting with Obama. Other campaigns, including Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's and Sen. John McCain's, had ample opportunity to review Obama's remarks about coal, and challenge him on them before the closing days of the general election. None did.
     {snip}
    "You gotta listen to the tape," Palin told the crowd Sunday.

    On that point, we agree.


    My Karma just ran over your Dogma

    by FoundingFatherDAR on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:37:54 AM PST

  •  These guys truly are fighting the last war (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skywaker9, dotalbon, MariaWr

    This kind of thing might have worked a few years ago. But now, there's too much information accessible and it's all easily, quickly and thoroughly debunked.

    Eventually they'll get the hang of this here "Internet" thingee, but not this time.

  •  Clean Coal is like Jews for Jesus. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    noahdb, dotalbon, MariaWr, First Light

    "you ought to be ashamed of yourself, person who loves to tell your 'hat story' with OPOL. Grow up." -rhfactor

    by DemocraticLuntz on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:38:43 AM PST

  •  Republicans used to thrive on creating a (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skywaker9, dotalbon, MariaWr, Pannich

    perception and calling it reality. It still works on their base, but the rest of the electorate now sees through the bullshit.

    If McCain and Palin were actually mavericks they would vote for Obama.

    by alasmoses on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:39:09 AM PST

  •  McCain changes his opinions whenever he wants (5+ / 0-)

    Even if we point this out, McCain will simply say that he changed his opinion about coal. And the media will let him get away with it.

    Just like he has repeatedly changed his position on every issue, usually multiple times.

    He's a maverick, you know.

  •  If McCain wanted a winning argument (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RickMassimo, alasmoses, dotalbon, Pannich

    he could have proposed dumping money into coal states for the specific purpose of creating "clean" coal technology.  He seems more hung up on his 45 nuclear power plants.  He forgets to tell these Ohio voters that he plans on an across the board spending freeze -- thus, no help for struggling industries.

    While there is potential for "clean" coal power plants -- we aren't there yet.  The other end is not being clearly addressed -- the mining factor which, to date, causes severe environmental damage, puts lives at risk thanks to Republican de-regulation and failure by the Mine Safety overlords to do their damned jobs.

  •  I hadn't even heard of this "story" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pannich

    until I cruised over to Free Republic this morning to see the newest components being spun into their Web O' Denial.

    I suspect most non-wingnuts will never hear of this story as well.

    Move along, nothing to see here.

    A liberal is a conservative whose 401K has just been wiped out.

    by Yankee Patriot on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:40:16 AM PST

    •  Well (0+ / 0-)

      It's the main subject of all the robocalls, negative calls, cavassers, and a big chunk of the speeches McCain and Palin are making today, as well as all they've been talking about on the CNN/MSNBC/Fox morning shows today.  It is a pretty big deal, and Obama should respond to it.

      "Don't hope for a stronger America. Vote for one." - John McCain. I agree!!!

      by cartwrightdale on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:15:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Still looking for that magic bullet. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Darmok

    One day before the election and they still think there's that one magic factoid that's going to blow the whistle on this whole Obama scam.

    Putting aside the fact that, um, this attack isn't true, the very idea that two years of campaigning and speeches on Obama's part, two years of work on his staff's and volunteers' parts and two years of listening and deciding on voters' parts is this house of cards that can all be dashed to pieces by a supposed tape from eleven months ago is indicative of the utter contempt they all have for the American voter.

    The above comment is probably disrespectful of John McCain's military service somehow.

    by RickMassimo on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:40:48 AM PST

  •  Oh my god, we might not carry Kentucky or W. VA! (0+ / 0-)

    And our Illinois support is soft!

    /pfft.  Nice ploy, McCain jackasses.

    My cat had $200,000 in a 401K but then the market eated it.

    by nightsweat on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:42:35 AM PST

  •  Once again, it's McCain vs. his campaign... (0+ / 0-)
    and vs. Palin. what an incompetent bunch.

    neither mccain nor obama is going to turn the lights off and shut down coal without a replacement that's cleaner and provide more and better jobs.

    Voters have seen through this stuff so far in this cycle. Just one more day, america

    TheRamFiles: The only thing McCain changes these days is his mind.

    by ron ray on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:43:52 AM PST

  •  ahh youtube (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    firingbullet

    I love how flailing attempts at mudslinging can be debunked in hours.  Thanks for the post.  
    Is this all you got McShame?  

  •  Another example of the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    firingbullet

    liberal media run amok!! (sp??)

    It's not easy being a Floridian: PS I'm a lawYER now; no longer a lawSTUDENT.

    by lawstudent922 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:44:21 AM PST

  •  It will take a long time to phase out coal (0+ / 0-)

    That's just the unfortunate truth. There is no inconsistency in aggressively developing the replacement sources and in cleaning coal emissions to the extent possible. The transition to a truly alternative energy future takes time. Some alternative technologies will prove to be unworkable. Others as we know are intermittent, not baseload like coal. The technology and most importantly, the transmission infrastructure, does not yet exist to replace coal or to move wind generation to where the load demand is. Years & years, really. So making coal cleaner in the meantime is an OK strategy, but it shouldn't be considered a goal.

    •  that comment (0+ / 0-)

      is just not true !  The transition could be accomplished fast is the billions we put into war and bailouts were applied.

      ........so how do i delete this bloody account or we've come on this blog by mistake....

      by firingbullet on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:50:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  but it's not the money (0+ / 0-)

        The transmission infrastructure to move intermittent wind from the areas of greatest wind resource to the areas of greatest demand does not exist today. This will take years, not for lack of money but because that's how long it takes, and because huge new corridors of transmission towers will create their own development and environmental controversies.

    •  In fact, the less dirty coal industry is not even (0+ / 0-)

      mature yet. It will take years and cost a great deal more to develop it. It's not like "clean coal" technology is ready for prime time now.

      •  correct (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TimeZoned

        Coal emissions can be a lot cleaner than they are today, which will cost but which can be done technically.

        I do not believe pie-in-the-ground carbon sequestration schemes will ever work.

        (I work for a utility that gets 0% of its power from coal & nuclear, and 75% from renewables, so I'm not a coal fan, just trying to add a dose of realism about what it will take to convert the nation's power system)

  •  too bad (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    firingbullet

    clean coal is an oxymoron.  Seriously, the entire concept of clean coal is a joke, a rhetorical campaign by the coal industry to give coal a clean flavor it doesn't have.

  •  It's so telling... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    firingbullet

    ...that the day before a Presidential election rumored to be won by a Democrat, the issue of the day is the coal lobby on the offensive.

    GOTV!!

    This space for rent!

    by Danno11 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:47:59 AM PST

  •  Please Reassure Me (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wsexson, firingbullet, Wu Wei

    Please, someone, reassure me that John McCain will be but a cum spot on the bedsheet of life in 48 hours.

    Someone...please.

    "I think I may need a bathroom break. Is this possible?" - Love note from Dumbya to Condi

    by Curlew on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:48:37 AM PST

  •  wait (0+ / 0-)

    They haven't lost yet

  •  The advantange of them lying this late in the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wu Wei

    election is that it takes a while for the truth to be disseminated through the MSM. At least a couple of days, because the MSM likes to push the lie first before waiting to bring in more ratings by pushing the rebuttal.

    The disadvantage is that this late in the game, the lie takes a while to disseminate through the electorate. So it has far less of an impact.

    You'd think they would have brought stuff like this out earlier, but they couldn't simply because it WASN'T TRUE, and it'd make McCain look WORSE and lose ground over-all.

    Desperate, disgusting fuckers. I'll be glad to dance and call Hannity's show after they lose.

    Barack Obama: is he, perhaps, too awesome?

    by Rockpopple on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:49:08 AM PST

    •  McCain used the same trick with Romney (0+ / 0-)

      McCain told lies about Romney shortly before the Florida primary, questioning his commitment to the Iraq War. It was timed so that Romney couldn't respond, yet McCain's media toadies ran with it and told the voters.

  •  clean coal ! (0+ / 0-)

    give me a break ! Obama is pandering !  There is no such thing and the repugs are desperate!

    ........so how do i delete this bloody account or we've come on this blog by mistake....

    by firingbullet on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:49:16 AM PST

  •  Palin such a creepy, creepy liar... (0+ / 0-)

    The reason why she has to say it "just surfaced" is because she's got to pre-explain to her crowd why nobody has told this particular yarn before.  It can't be "we save the lies for the final day in order to get the lie out before anyone can correct it".  

    Palin uses this device about five different ways in her stump speeches, to argue that "the truth" is being hidden and just now being revealed, and this crowd, of course, has been figuring that something is going to finally lay Obama low, so they are receptive.

    "If the incident turns out to be a hoax, Senator McCain's quest for the presidency is over, forever linked to race-baiting." Fox New's John Moody

    by Inland on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:51:05 AM PST

  •  Digg it up Folks - Here's the link (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Guidz

    Here's the link to Jed's post - please digg it up:

    http://digg.com/...

  •  This is the same thing Hillary did in Ohio (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Guidz

    A last-minute lie about Obama that, when researched, was actually something that their own campaign was responsible for having done.

    The Obama camp did a bad job of responding to Hillary's lie.. let's hope they learned something and can be more focused on the counter-attack.

    On a more "meta" note.. this was the November surprise?  The McCain campaign is just pitiful, bless their hearts.

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, Feb 17, 1755.

    by Wayward Son on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:51:25 AM PST

    •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

      Truth. Not one of Hillary's shining moments. Luckily she will come out of this whole thing way better than McCain.

      We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

      by anastasia p on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:09:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yeah there's a popular YouTube vid (0+ / 0-)

    running lastnight about this. An Obama hit piece.
    Isn't it already pretty much already decided that coal will be clean in the future? Here in Texas we ain't having this shit. Dirty coal plants. The mayors are are united!

    My computer isn't powerful enough to open Huffington Post and all it's spam.

    by plok on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 08:51:38 AM PST

  •  WTF? A chopped tape give me a break... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill

    Does this actually have legs? I havent seen anything except on the usual suspects...

  •  Ohio 14th's LaTourette big friend of Dirty Coal (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anastasia p

    http://www.ohiodailyblog.com/...

    And, check out the one and only Debate LaTourette Allowed in this election cycle.Cleveland City Club, October 30, 2008

    Part 1:
    http://www.youtube.com/...

    Part 2:
    http://www.youtube.com/...

    Part 3:
    http://www.youtube.com/...

    Part 4:
    http://www.youtube.com/...

    Part 5:
    http://www.youtube.com/...

    Part 6:
    http://www.youtube.com/...

    •  Friend of big coal is right (0+ / 0-)

      Pet and puppet of infamous Utah mine owner Bob Murray, who has donated lots to l'il Stevie "CAFTA" LaTourette. Steve's a friend of all sorts of special interests, including banks.

      We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

      by anastasia p on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:10:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  McCain is Toast: New Ads in Florida (0+ / 0-)

    Check out the first two vids:

    http://www.progressflorida.org/...

  •  Obama needs to push back... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cartwrightdale

    either in a late ad with Voinovich quote or in targeted TV interviews in Western Penn, parts of Ohio and WV

    •  No, they don't (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wsexson

      It's way too late, they're closing strong, doing GOTV, and the last thing they need to do is start running zig zags all over the field trying to keep up with the latest GOP smear.

      We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

      by anastasia p on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:11:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      abraxas

      I'm really pissed that the Obama campaign isn't responding forcefully to this.  I'm not sure I agree with all the right-wing sites that are CONVINCED this just cost Obama the election, but they are damned serious.  Wishful thinking?  Perhaps.  But without a very hard hit-back, this may very well cost Obama 1-2% in Ohio and Penn and maybe Virginia, and if the election is closer than the polls suggest, that could be a problem.

      Obama PLEASE whip up a little ad chewing out the McCain campaign for this.  Have the last word!!

      "Don't hope for a stronger America. Vote for one." - John McCain. I agree!!!

      by cartwrightdale on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:13:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  How is the Obama camp pushing back on this? (0+ / 0-)

    I havent really seen any pushback, but Im assuming there must be some.

    Also, I can kill you with my brain.

    by Puffin on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:00:02 AM PST

    •  It's the day before the friggin' election. (0+ / 0-)

      Someone from the campaign (Burton, I think?) issued a statement about how the story is essentially bullshit.

      What else do you want them to do today?  Drop everything and further spread this myth by continuing to spend time on it?  Do you remember the McCain camp getting all pissed at Palin for dragging her wardrobe scandal BACK into the spotlight?  

      Obama's campaign is smarter than that.  If they actually thought this story threatened their lead, they'd be right on top of it.  If Obama incorporated this meme into his stump speech, the media would feature his response as much as Gramps and Caribou Barbie's attacks.

      The fact that they're NOT spending all election eve on it means that they must be thinking -- be it from internal polling or the instincts of the smart people who work for them or whatever -- that this isn't going to be damaging enough to swing PA and OH.

      They know what they're doing.

    •  UMWA response (0+ / 0-)

      The United Mine Workers response to this crap is here:
      http://www.umwa.org/...

  •  This very topic is a PA robocall right now!!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cartwrightdale
    It was left on my answering machine last night.  I believe the wording of the opening sentence was that Obama "wanted to bankrupt the coal industry."  Umm, yeeeaaahhh.... that's the ticket.  He doesn't want to curb emissions; he wants to destroy America's energy industry. And he rubs his hands together while cackling in glee at the prospect of tens of thousands of unionized coal miners losing their jobs and working at Walmart.  I'm voting at 7AM tomorrow with my toddler son in tow, and the Republicans can go screw themselves.

    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

    by bigtimecynic on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:05:18 AM PST

  •  There is NO CLEAN COAL TECHNOLOGY now (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IndySteve, First Light

    maybe in a few years, or ten years, or whatever, but there is NO CLEAN COAL TECHNOLOGY

    80 percent of success is just showing up - Woody Allen.

    by Churchill on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:08:52 AM PST

  •  How Sad (0+ / 0-)

    McCain would lose his integrity to win an election.

  •  Let's Put Coal Out of Business (0+ / 0-)

    There is no "clean coal" technology, even if some new techniques aren't quite as devastatingly filthy as the current practice. Obama's pandering to the coal industry, and its Appalachians (and allies) who identify with it, is one of his failures of leadership.

    Coal does, however, hold some great hope for clean energy. Simply because there's so much energy in American coal, locked up with all that pollution. If we invested some of that vast energy into chemical and physical infrastructure to sequester that carbon (not just pump it underground, where it can leak, and just become yet another problem we've mortgaged out for our descendents), we'd still have a vast energy supply to spare for use. Even if we lower immediate efficiency to gain elimination of pollution (especially Greenhouse and radioactivity), the overall energy efficiency of totally cleaning coal energy would go way up, once we factor in all the costs of cleaning up the pollution.

    For example, we should invest as many $billions as it takes into engineering a version of the Green Freedom system developed at Los Alamos National Lab that works. It consumes energy, but it cleans CO2 out of the air in vast quantities, producing fuel liquids like gasoline or ethanol (though at a net energy cost). More CO2 is cleaned up than is produced by the fuel that powers the process. So that balanced against the energy produced by generating fuel liquids from coal, the net result is CO2 removed from the Greenhouse, and lots of surplus energy left over for industry. Enough energy that some can be invested in further cleaning the coal, like pulling the radioactivity from it (otherwise a big coal plant spews more radioactivity in a year than all the American nuke plant leaks in history combined).

    Coal can be cleaned, though we're not really close to doing it yet. Because it's expensive. But it's cheaper than the total cost if we don't clean it. Which is of course the true cost, that a president (and everyone they work for) must work from. Not just the immediate bottom line that coal barons and campaigning politicians are geared to.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:11:03 AM PST

  •  on cnn now (0+ / 0-)

    McCain saying Obama will destroy the coal industry.

    So sad.

    "The only person sure of himself is the man who wishes to leave things as they are, and he dreams of an impossibility" -George M. Wrong.

    by statsone on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:11:17 AM PST

  •  Obama's Coal Policy (0+ / 0-)

    Obama's latest policy paper on energy (pdf) says this on coal:

    Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology. Carbon capture and storage technologies hold enormous potential to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions as we power our economy with domestically produced and secure energy. As a U.S. Senator, Obama has worked tirelessly to ensure that clean coal technology becomes commercialized. An Obama administration will
    provide incentives to accelerate private sector investment in commercial scale zero-carbon coal facilities. In order to maximize the speed with which we advance this critical technology, Barack
    Obama and Joe Biden will instruct DOE to enter into public private partnerships to develop 5 "first-of-a-kind" commercial scale coal-fired plants with carbon capture and sequestration.

    under cap-and-trade, one can build a "clean coal" plant - one with low carbon outputs - but if you build a "dirty-coal" plant, the cost of the carbon output will be uneconomical.

  •  clean coal is an industry term.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    First Light
    please stop using their frame. Less dirty coal is the one I prefer.

    Yes, Obama's position on less dirty coal is similar, if not identical to McCain. That is unfortunate because clean coal is an oxymoron and coal sequestration if a pipe dream (storing it miles underground in vast salt water aquifers) with vast environmental unknowns.

  •  Problems for Pennsylvania and Ohio (0+ / 0-)

    This is brilliant for the McCain camp.  Look, they are trailing in both Pennsylvania and Ohio, and this is a last ditch effort that could have enough legs to get them through.

    People vote their pocketbooks, and if they can scare enough ignorant people in Pennsylvania and Ohio that Obama will destroy their way of life, then count on the votes changing to McCain.

    Obama had better push back hard on this.  Desperate people do desperate things, and McCain is desperate.

    But I just have to say...if you're McCain, how much pride could you have in a victory that came about because you blatantly lied?  I guess the spoils of victory would, for McCain (and certainly for Palin) outweigh the cost to one's honor, but damn....

    How low can they go?

    Just look at it this way:  Bush and Cheney did not create an imperial presidency (and vice presidency) just to hand it over to the Democrats.

    Demand Accountability.

    by stlawrence on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:22:49 AM PST

    •  Push back with facts? (0+ / 0-)
      * McCain voted AGAINST Violence Against Women Act



      * McCain voted AGAINST Title X Womens Health Care Services

      

* McCain voted AGAINST Children's Health Insurance Program-SCHIP

      

* McCain voted AGAINST aid to Children of Domestic Violence

      

* McCain voted AGAINST Emergency Funding for Victims of Hurricane Katrina
      

* McCain voted AGAINST Funding Law Enforcement

      

* McCain wants to bring back the DRAFT



      * McCain voted AGAINST GI Bill



      * McCain voted AGAINST Funding VA for Vets

      

* McCain voted AGAINST Funding Military Equipment Shortages in Iraq

      Report abuse of voters. Voter Hotline: 1-888-884-VOTE (8683). Report to watchdog@barackobama.com

      by mrobinson on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:28:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's been a long 8 years (0+ / 0-)

    They aren't dealing with reality, they are trying to construct a new reality. For years, they've been able to maintain political power by doing just that, but now that the reality of their disastrous governance has caught up to them, their ability to lie their way to victory has been severely damaged.

    Dino Rossi [WA-GOP for Governor] won't advertise himself as a Republican. His GOP signs in eastern Washington sit next to signs that say, "Don't Let Seattle Steal This Election." We hand counted every vote as Florida should have done and Rossi's opponent won, Christine Gregoire.

    For better or for worse, it's a lesson they still haven't learned. They still think they can fake their way through it.

    The best part - when the nightmare is over on Nov. 4th.

    But that's not really the important thing. The important thing is that we are overcoming their grip on power. And for that, the world is a better place.

    Report abuse of voters. Voter Hotline: 1-888-884-VOTE (8683). Report to watchdog@barackobama.com

    by mrobinson on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:25:18 AM PST

  •  No mention on ABC, CNN, MSNBC yet (0+ / 0-)

    So thats good

    Obama = Mario, Biden = Luigi http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/acsguitar/obamamario.jpg

    by acsguitar on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:27:29 AM PST

  •  McCain FictionLand of La, la ..where is reality! (0+ / 0-)

    Honestly, McCain and Palin and all the republicans are in fiction land.  They are going deeper and deeper into pure fiction.

    1. Joe the plumber, not real, he is a fiction character.
    1. Republican good on economy, show me the evidence, after 50 years of trickle down economy, people are still waiting for the results.  There are no evidence showing the republicans know anything about business or economy.  The only evidence I find are republican stealing from corporations, stealing from the public coffer, stealing from the international banking system, ...it's just one big PONZI CAPER after another.  There is no evidence to show economic growth was better under Repubicans verses the Democrats, zero!!
    1. Republican strong on security, ZERO EVIDENCE, remember we were attacked when republicans have been in the white house.  Zero evidence the nation is secure!  None!
    1.  No evidence Republicans protect the public, look at the following:  a) importation of Bovine Spongiform infested Cattle, that can cause Cretzfelt-Jakob Disease in Humans, b)  Importation of toys with lead poisoning, c)  Importation of melamine infested food products, d)  Homeland securities poor response to Rita and Katrina, e) Banking crisis response, economy is fundamentally strong, ...there is no evidence of protection of the general public, none!
    1.  Republican "Less government is good",  where is the evidence, the banking deregulation caused a collapse, the import deregulation and lax oversight by FDA cause defective and dangerous products into our country, republican grew the government bigger than anyone in the history of this nation,  ...and high official positons are filled with incompetent religious nut jobs!
  •  Of course the only thing that will change (0+ / 0-)

    is that we will just export all our coal if we aren't allowed to use it here.  Someone will always want cheaper energy.  Anytime someone says we should not make new coal plants, all they are saying is we should export coal.  The net result is the same.

  •  I saw the little dog and pony act on FOX (0+ / 0-)

    I don't think this story has legs.  Just like the long lost Auntie bit. Desperation, nothing to worry about.

  •  I want an Obama response! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cartwrightdale

    Ugh

    Obama = Mario, Biden = Luigi http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/acsguitar/obamamario.jpg

    by acsguitar on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:48:02 AM PST

    •  I agree. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      abraxas

      I'm not being concern trollish, but this is pissing me off.  It's nearly 100% of the newscycle right now, 100% of talk radio is devoting their time to it (and, like it or not, nearly half the citizens in Ohio and Pennsylvania listen to Rush Limbaugh, by the Neilsen ratings), it's the subject of McCain and Palin's speeches all day long which the networks are airing, etc.  And, the audio of Obama talking about it is now the #1 new video on YouTube, with nearly half a million views in less than 24 hours.

      Obama needs an ad up.  What is taking so fucking long?

      "Don't hope for a stronger America. Vote for one." - John McCain. I agree!!!

      by cartwrightdale on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:54:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  talking points went out to all, I think (0+ / 0-)

    Last night I was listening to right-wing radio--you know, the really informed people, not those stupid people who watch television news-- and some guy named Bill Cunningham who identified himself as a lawyer and a Catholic was holding forth.  His main push was this "bankrupt the coal industry" story and the revealing audio, which he never got around to playing.  Also, all his callers ( from "millions and millions" of listeners, according to him) called into talk about other issues--Obama's aunt, the coming total ban on guns, the coming apocalypse and national security crisis--but Cunningham managed to work in the coal story to every response to every caller.

    By the way, if Obama wins ( I don't want to jinx anyone) these people won't go away.

  •  If you wanna have fun... (0+ / 0-)

    ...go to this youtube video:

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    ...and join the comments.  It's quite a lively discussion.  ;)  Just hope some of these people don't vote!

    "Don't hope for a stronger America. Vote for one." - John McCain. I agree!!!

    by cartwrightdale on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:52:15 AM PST

  •  Question (0+ / 0-)

    I know that I'm not on topic, but can somebody tell me how to post a picture? Thanks.

    Canada - where a pack of smokes is ten bucks and a heart transplant is free.

    by dpc on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 09:53:22 AM PST

  •  Drudge's last stand (0+ / 0-)

    I know it's one of my bad habits that I can't shake but I do look at the Drudge Report every morning.  He's got to be pretty depressed if this is the best he can throw against Obama in the last day of the campaign.  I know Drudge was really hoping for a big shocker and I honestly expected to see a headline along the lines of Obama got groping a Billy goat at the State Fair or something but it ain't happening for the Sludge Man.

    With gas prices at pretty reasonable prices this issue doesn't have any traction even if people see the headline and click no further.  Who outside of the coal industry really is following the nuances of coal plants and how they process the stuff?

    It's early in the day yet so Drudge might not be finished yet.

  •  "Clean" Coal and "Safe" nukes?! Please! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    First Light, mrpinchy

    I must say these aspects of Obama and Bidens' positions are among my LEAST favorite...

    I am not buying either proposition.  

    We need real alternatives, starting with conservation...

    There oughta be a law, and major subsidies, to reduce energy consumption hugely, and retrofit our entire nation with appropriate technologies from top to bottom.

    Arrest the counter-revolutionary traitors who have refused to submit to the popular democratic will on this urgent priority, and seize their assets, to pay for it!

  •  United Mine Workers of Am. Respond for Obama (0+ / 0-)

    "Sen. John McCain and his running mate, Gov. Sarah Palin, have once again demonstrated that they are willing to say anything and do anything to win this election. Their latest twisting of the truth is about coal and some comments Sen. Obama made last January about the future use of coal in America," said Cecil E. Roberts, president of the United Mine Workers of America, in a statement released Monday afternoon.

    Roberts noted that McCain and the Republicans ignored Obama's overall point during his interview.

    The Democratic candidate told the Chronicle, "This notion of no coal, I think, is an illusion," noting the amount of energy the US dervies from coal. Obama pushed for development of technology to sequester carbon emissions, the central tenant of so called "clean" coal.

    "Despite what the McCain campaign and some far right-wing blogs would have Americans believe, Sen. Obama has been and remains a tremendous supporter of coal and the future of coal," Roberts said.

    Obama = Mario, Biden = Luigi http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/acsguitar/obamamario.jpg

    by acsguitar on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 10:06:38 AM PST

  •  cap and trade- panacea NOT (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    First Light

    As made clear in the WSJ, coal can Thrive under cap and trade.  Coalbama is sure to talk tough and carry a little stick against Big Coal.  Nothing for Repub's to get excited over.

  •  The lies that are spreading (0+ / 0-)

    are amazing.  I was out this morning hanging literature on door knobs and was talking to one woman who told me that a woman she had known since elementary school had told her son to tell her to take down her Obama sign, because if Obama is elected we will turn to Nazism.

    She was astonished and so was I.  I explained to her that this is what we're up against - every kind of lie and smear and slime they can come up with.  This is a working class neighborhood in a suburb of Cleveland and I'm thrilled about the support we are getting

    We discussed where she needed to go to vote (there have been some changes due to school closures and renovations) - luckily I had her polling location in my materials, whether or not she should bring her 2-year-old grandson with her.  Later, when it started to rain - she offered me an umbrella.

    I think we're gonna make some noise tomorrow!! Yep, you betcha!

  •  Guardian:Time to bury the myth about "Clean Coal" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radical def

    Good article from the British paper The Guardian about why "clean coal" isn't

    http://climateandcapitalism.com/...

  •  Obama needs to call McCain Liar with scummy (0+ / 0-)

    Campaign tactics. Put it on the air everywehre

    Obama = Mario, Biden = Luigi http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/acsguitar/obamamario.jpg

    by acsguitar on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 10:14:00 AM PST

  •  AM. Co for Clean Coal statement (0+ / 0-)

    Obama = Mario, Biden = Luigi http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/acsguitar/obamamario.jpg

    by acsguitar on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 10:16:45 AM PST

  •  Love the DRUDGE graphic on Fox "News" (0+ / 0-)

    Does Murdoch own Drudge yet?
    fightbackBarack.com

  •  It's a bit too late for such a story to catch up, (0+ / 0-)

    but they need to be vigilant and respond quickly to the accusations.

    Such a story could, if it goes unanswered, cost him Ohio.

    Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

    by Mutual Assured Destruction on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 11:07:02 AM PST

  •  So, Obama meant what he said? (0+ / 0-)

    I thought I would see some sort of debunking of a "lie" - yet all I see is, "McCain wants to do it, too"?  

    what?

  •  Obama needs to hit back on this crap NOW!!!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ontologeez

    I don't mean to sound like a concern troll, but this story is all over the place in eastern Ohio and western Pennsylvania.  This could be the tipping point for a lot of undecided voters and Reagan Democrats, which could turn both states to McCain.  If Obama loses both Ohio and Pennsylvania, he will lose the fucking election!  The team needs to get an ad on the air NOW!  What the hell are they waiting for?  

    •  I could be wrong, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wsexson

      but I don't think McCain himself tried to argue this (it is so far-fetched) in a way that deserves an ad. The surrogates can handle this one, I think.

      "I recommend that the Statue of Liberty be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the west coast." -- Viktor E. Frankl

      by keepright86 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 11:29:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  But I don't live in Ohio or Penn either, (0+ / 0-)

        so I don't know. I just can't believe there are voters - grown adults - who would buy into this nonsense coming out within 48 hours of polls closing.

        "I recommend that the Statue of Liberty be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the west coast." -- Viktor E. Frankl

        by keepright86 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 11:32:45 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There are a TON of voters in OH and PA that are (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ontologeez, keepright86

          still on the fence (partially due to racism, I must say), and something like this may be just the thing to tip them over to McCain.  Maybe I just need a Valium, but I am FREAKING OUT over this story.  I really believe that McCain is going to win both Ohio AND Pennsylvania due to this issue unless Obama puts an ad out that clearly states the McCain camp's utter hypocrisy on this issue.

    •  What would Obama say? (0+ / 0-)

      Look, the damage is done.  Obama said it - and he said it in a way that cannot be undone.  Yes, it will cost him votes in many states.  

      It would be disingenuous for Obama to claim he didn't mean what he said. he meant it, alright.

  •  My insomnia was in full force last night (0+ / 0-)

    in part due to the excitement of Obama coming back to Jacksonville, Fla. this morning (the rally was amazing)...

    Anyways, I punished myself with watching almost all of H & C and saw ol' Hannity pushing his new boogeyman hard. He was owned REPEATEDLY though, I think even the most frothy-mouthed wingnut watching last night knew it was complete desperation.

    "I recommend that the Statue of Liberty be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the west coast." -- Viktor E. Frankl

    by keepright86 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 11:25:45 AM PST

  •  Coverage of coal comments (0+ / 0-)
    Since I am not watching MSM now, how balanced has the media coverage been on this today? Have Obama surrages been pushing back on this fake coal story. How much of an engine is coal to the economies of OH or Pen anyway?
  •  Suppressed? (0+ / 0-)

    Isn't this the same recorded audio where they pulled the "cling to guns and religion" clip months ago?

    Also, it doesn't say anything about bankrupting the coal industry - it says it will bankrupt anyone trying to build new coal fired plants.

    I'm sure the rise of the automobile put a lot of blacksmiths out of a job, too.

    And for a while, "Optimize and burn CD ROMs" was on my resume.  At the time (1994) the CD burner cost $8,000, the software to burn CDs cost $3,400, and blank CDs were $18.00 each.  And the technology was so buggy then that we made a lot of expensive coasters.  Times move on, and if you are in a dying industry, you really need to start looking ahead to the next opportunity.

  •  Coverage of this in MSM (Redux) (0+ / 0-)

    I have the same question. How is this hail mary playing in Ohio and PA?

    It's a complicated issue, and easy to portray any way you want to the simpletons (the base).

    It's not too late to create a chyt storm in these states, and conceivably tip them back to McCasket. (Ohio, in some polls is just +2 points).

    Anyone have any intel on how this is playing (or may play) with voters a half-mile underground, and their families?

    PS
    After this election, and a return to sanity in the white house, maybe we grab some pitchforks and head on over to Brent Bozell's house and tell him that the easy days of his cheesy, manipulative influence are over.

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - H.L. Mencken

    by Ontologeez on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 12:41:59 PM PST

  •  Can this story Tip OH and PA? (0+ / 0-)

    I wanted to post a diary on this, but I'm maxed otu today.

    RBloodworth wrote about the on kos:
    "I don't mean to sound like a concern troll, but this story is all over the place in eastern Ohio and western Pennsylvania.  This could be the tipping point for a lot of undecided voters and Reagan Democrats, which could turn both states to McCain.  If Obama loses both Ohio and Pennsylvania, he will lose the fucking election!  The team needs to get an ad on the air NOW!  What the hell are they waiting for?"

    I am seeing this story get play everywhere, too. I don't watch Fox, if  I can avoid it, but I cannot believe that they, and the local right wing media in OH and PA are not blasting this crap out at 140 decibels.

    Can anyone give us a real read on how this is playing in those states. We have about 15 hours until polls open, and with the thin margins Obama has there, needless to say, more than a few are nervous. I too would like to know the Obama people are working on a response ad.. fast.

    Someone talk me down. Please.

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - H.L. Mencken

    by Ontologeez on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 01:27:20 PM PST

  •  Thanks Jed. One request: (0+ / 0-)

    I'm really digging how you are adding to the fray with these well thought-out and well edited videos.

    For this one in particular it seems we would benefit by strongly addressing the "where has this been?" meme you bring up at the end of the video with something along the lines of "it's been public on the SFChron's website for the past 11 months" or something along those lines.

    My thinking is that as this is spread virally, it does a great job showing McCain's position aligned with Obamas, but seems to leave the "last minute revelation!" bit unanswered.

    Maybe it was there and I just didn't see it. Otherwise, it kicks butt like the rest of your stuff.

  •  DIGG this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ontologeez

    This would be a great story to get to the front page of Digg.com - right about the time the polls open. Go here and vote for this story: http://digg.com/...

    •  I agree.. this video must get out there (0+ / 0-)

      So does KOS have some rapid response strategy for these situations. HOw do we get a few thousand diggs in 12 hours?

      "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - H.L. Mencken

      by Ontologeez on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 01:44:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Posted to BarackObama.com (0+ / 0-)

    With a suggested that this become an ad. Hope they're already on it.

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - H.L. Mencken

    by Ontologeez on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 01:54:29 PM PST

  •  Axis of Weasel (0+ / 0-)

    McCain-Drudge-FOX

    I love it! Keep up the good work.

  •  These Repugnicans put party first (0+ / 0-)

    without sufficent time to refute this crap I'm afraid it might have some traction in Ohia and Pa.  As always the Repugnicans put party first and truth and country last.

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