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Seriously, I've had enough of this.  I'm tired how, we're constantly attacking Obama, already, mind you, because he isn't acting progressive enough.  People need to realize that we didn't elect Russ Feingold.  

I've been thinking about this more and more lately, and coming here recently, just seems to be such a downer.  During the election, I was first introduced to Dailykos and found such a great community that was so supporting of a candidate for president of a type which hasn't been seen anywhere else.  For disclosure purposes, I am a disaffected republican.  Since Obama won the election, there have been pulls from all directions of the aisle, but I would have to say most prominently from the progressive/left.  While it's true Obama does owe most of his success to sites such as this, people need to realize what Obama was actually talking about when he stated that he would "change the politics of the past."

People, on this site especially, have watched how Obama has been hiring Clinton people for a lot of his staff and have thought to themselves, is this change? People, in general, seem to be so focused on the people to bring change versus the actual change itself.  For example, let's look at Sen. Joe Lieberman.  Obama offered him a chance to save face by staying in the caucus.  Many here, especially, have refused to let him go for his behavior. Instead of vindictiveness, Obama offered graciousness.  

Let's look at what happened 11 days ago.  Obama won a substantial victory.  This is a historic mandate of 365 electoral votes.  We could do what every party has done after a mandate of this kind, we could throw Progressive ideas down so hard and implement them so fast that the Country could change completely.  Unfortunately, as history shows us, eventually the other party returns and stronger than before.  It's simple physics, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.  

This is the change Obama has offered.  We can break from history, by extending a hand to the other side.  Like what Obama is reporting to have down to Hillary Clinton and may do so to John McCain on monday.  We can destroy conservatism so that is no longer a threat by implementing/forcing our ideas through the country's throat, but then the country will yearn for conservatism after that.  

The solution is simple, you get ideas that the Republicans have shown to have worked and you implement it into your own policy to get things moving.  It forces the other party to change to survive.  This is good for us and it is good for the country.  Essentially, we could destroy the Republicans and Conservatism into no more than dust in the wind.  However, in doing so, we may lose the chance to change the country forever.  

Originally posted to calchala on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 01:46 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  yeah I'm kind of near the GBCW point here (5+ / 0-)

    at dkos myself over this issue.

    It just seems so... shrill nowadays.

    "Biden's tears did more for the equality Of the sexes than Palin's presence" - Leah Renna

    by edgeways on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 01:49:23 PM PST

  •  Well, considering that no actual progressives... (9+ / 0-)

    ....have had a say in politics in eight years and haven't had a significant say in 40 years, I'd like a a few bones here and there. Obama is from the progressive wing of the party and has a pretty progressive voting recrod, so we shall see how things turn out. But if he goes back to Clinton centrism or worse, you're damn right he's going to hear from me. Now is not the time for half-measures and corporate coddling. If we'd done that in the Great Depression, we'd be a 3rd World nation now. Obama has to bring the change this country needs, as he pointed out. And that will mean taking the country to the left.

    •  Agreed-- we didn't vote for 'the same ol' n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      metal prophet
    •  We didn't vote for the 3rd Clinton administration (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      metal prophet

      either. And that's what it's looking like.

      I mean, let's face it, Obama campaigned on the fact that you can't change DC with the same old people.

      So who's he surrounding himself with? The same old people.

      I'm trying to suspend my disbelief, but it's hard seeing how this is not going to lead to politics as usual... Less radically right-wingish, to be sure, but we can't settle for the second (center-right) term of Clinton right now; not after 24 of the past 28 were spent well right of center. That's a lot of damage to undo. Can't do it in moderation.

      If your actions speak louder than your words, you're not yelling loud enough. - Stephen Colbert

      by Words In Action on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 04:36:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  thanks (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BeaRational, b4uknowit

    i can empathize with your feelings here.

    personally, i think it is way way too early in the game to be jumping on the man for every single rumor that gets floated by some pundit over who may or may not be in consideration for whatever list of people for some position or other.

    by the time he's actually in office, we'll be out of energy and sick to death of politics--right when he actually will NEED us to give our input to help balance the push from the right.

    sigh.

    but then, our bar-b-q's always turn into circular firing squads, here in Lefty Land...so that was one "change" i knew would not be forth-coming: any change from US!

    éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é

    by Librarian on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 01:52:40 PM PST

  •  I don't know about you, but I was expecting (15+ / 0-)
    - Instant Socialism.

    - Mao's little red book arriving in everyone's mailbox

    - The end of life as we know it

    - Getting nuked by Iran

    Why did you lie to me FOX News?

  •  He's not going to please everyone all the time (6+ / 0-)

    and I have no problem with people voicing concern, but some people need to calm down and go have a drink.  It's getting ridiculous how people hyperventilate about every rumor or bit of information.

    •  People often (0+ / 0-)

      hyperventilate about rumors and small bits of information when they're given little information to begin with.

      Hence even in the election time, when we are just splurged with day after day news and analyzation we aren't happy because we still hunger for more. We want to know specifics, and even when given the specifics - we aren't sure they're being truthful or if they're missing out on some big detail, or if we're being outright lied to.

      People will calm down once the good things start happening, and things start getting fixed.

      Until then they'll assume they're broken, they're going to stay broken, and that the guy at the top doesn't have a clue. And if you think about it, you'll realize this applies not only in the election, but also in real life in regards management, or even some casual organized event that isn't working at the moment.

  •  After FISA..... (5+ / 0-)

    ...I began to wonder what we were looking at, because triangulation did appear to be a possibility (and as far as triangulation goes, that was pretty bad).

    In any event....we want progressive change.  That would have been true regardless of who was elected president.

    Obama has made many promises, btw.  And if he breaks those promises there's no reason to expect support from those constituencies he made them to.

    "We're half awake in a fake empire."

    by Alec82 on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 01:59:00 PM PST

  •  Know what makes me happy today? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pinkbunny, b4uknowit

    Knowing they can't impeach Obama for anything right now.  He's jobless ;)

  •  I agree - it's been incredible to see the (10+ / 0-)

    quick negative reaction that without any idea or knowledge, people are quick to judge how Obama has failed them already. I've seen comments around how this is not what they voted for.

    The man hasn't even been inaugurated yet!

    Look there are serious problems, and there are a diverse group of people so I am sorry but Obama will not walk on water, he will not bring organic food to the masses, he will not turn back the hands of time, he may not make all the PETA people happy either. There are over 300 million Americans, everyone wants something different, and he's going to have to govern to the best of his ability to help as many Americans as he can, but he won't be able to meet everyone's agenda.

    He's going to have limited room to manuever in a political environment that is just WAITING FOR him to fail. He has two wars, additional concerns with Russia, Iran, Pakistan, and North Korea just waiting to erupt, we have a massive global economic crisis, and people want to make a BIG DEAL about whether or not he has freaking Clintonites on his cabinet.

    People had better wake up and smell the coffee that Obama is not a raving liberal. You can't pin a label on this guy. If anything, Obama is going to be as pragmatic as possible to get things done, and he is going to push for fairness and push policies that will improve the situation. But make no mistake, he is going to make some people unhappy.

    People are moaning about the fact that he hasn't pushed harder for Lieberman to be dumped, or the picking of Rahm Emanuel as CoS.

    Guess what? Obama doesn't care if he works with republicans, Clintonites or washington outsiders. He's about who is the best and the brightest to get things done.

    I don't care if they worked for Clinton or Bush, if this person is the best for the job, and will work with Obama for the greater good, then that's fine with me. If they understand their mistakes, and know what needs to be done, if they have the experience to fix the problem, I say go for it.

    If you think that Obama should just surround himself with Yes people, exactly how is that change?? that's what George Bush did!

    Let's face it, we need to be more realistic, and we need to realize that there has to be a prioritization of issues that will have to be worked on.

    Half of us can't even manage our own life, so I don't know how we can criticize a man who hasn't even had one day in office about disappointing us.

    Give the man a break and a chance. If you don't like it after 4 years, vote him out of office.

    I am not trying to drown out other people's ideas or opinions. Everyone has a right to opinions, heck even Fox News is full of opinions on how crappy Obama is doing or the mistakes he is making. You don't like the direction or his nominee, then write to him or visit the change.gov. That's what it's there for.

    He welcomes diverse views, and he's not going to shut anyone down. Ultimately he will make the decision based on what he knows, and the situation at hand. Obama is a about making real government actually making a difference. Change doesn't mean New. Change means understanding and leveraging best practices. Sometimes that means taking new ideas, sometimes that means taking old ideas that worked. But it's about being making the right choices. You don't have to reinvent the wheel to make it work all the time.

    Personally I think Obama has ben Freaking brilliant in his transition, and trying to get people who know what the hell they are doing to make his Presidency as effective as possible.

    You want to disagree on policy differences? That's great - but be prepared to know what you are talking about, and not just talk for the sake of complaining that this isn't Change - because that is hardly a reasonable issue  to argue over. Otherwise, stop the whining and the moaning, because I didn't come to DKOS to hear complaints about this person or that issue being handled incorrectly by Obama. I came to DKOS to read about interesting insights, news, and real analysis.

    If I wanted to see bitter comments about Obama, I would have just visited Free Republic or Redstate.com

    "What the naysayers don't understand is that this election has never been about me - it's about you." - Obama

    by pinkbunny on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 02:04:04 PM PST

    •  You say it so well. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Librarian, pinkbunny

      The only thing I would add is that I think people have been all charged up and ready to go for so long, it's hard to just quit cold turkey. We keep feeling the need to be DOING something, and it's hard to find a new place to direct our energies to. So some have felt the need to direct those energies towards making sure Obama does everything perfectly from Day One.

      I think we all need a vacation. Wouldn't it be great to just sail off on a cruise ship somewhere till January 20th? If only we could afford to!

      •  there are plenty of opportunities for (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Librarian, pinkbunny

        community service out there--especially with the holiday season coming up.

        Just sayin.

        •  Good thought.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          b4uknowit

          I've already redirected some of my donating in that direction, but I'm sure there are other things I can do as well.

          Something else that can always use attention is writing letters to and e-mailing newspapers, TV shows, magazines, and anywhere else that the media is failing in its job of truth telling. That was part of the task I gave myself leading up to the election, and one that seems to never end no matter who's in power.

  •  Lets Face It (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BeaRational, b4uknowit

    People suck...Obama isnt even in office yet and his supporters are already moaning and complaining.  Its kind of disheartening actually.

    •  They don't "Suck"... (0+ / 0-)

      They are frightened and nervous. They can't wait for things to begin, and the election is an attention addiction that will take some time to break. Just talk them down. Every little thing, is gonna be alright...

      You may find yourself in a beautiful house with a beautiful wife and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

      by FrankCornish on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 03:04:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Was hopping to get a (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    man that would think in the White House.

  •  To put it bluntly (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alizard, Chacounne, Words In Action

    If we want change, we need to demand it, we need to orginize, mobilize, and most importantly, we need to be the change we want to see.

  •  We marched into Iraq (0+ / 0-)

    in 2003 and it took about 2 weeks to completely take over the country. If we just marched in in 2 weeks, our military can just march out in 2 weeks. If all our troops aren't out of Iraq 2 weeks after Obama is inaugurated, I will be disappointed in him.

    •  My point is proven (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chacounne

      Seriously, two weeks?? You know nothing of military procedure nor of Obama's plan.  This may be the most ridiculous "promise" that is expected of Obama yet.  

    •  Or he can do it in 16 months. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      decafdyke, Librarian, Chacounne

      Which is what he stated he'd do, what the Iraqis expect he'll do, and is about as fast as we can reasonably expect do it.

      The forces that "marched in in 2 weeks" were substantially fewer in number than the combat forces currently on the ground, and their numbers are dwarfed by the contractors and civilian support personnel now in place.

      Moreover, when we marched in Iraq was a stable, peacefuyl country albeit one controlled by a nasty dictator.  Now it's an unstable, violent hell-hole.

      Leaving will take considerably more planning and care than invading, a point Obama made over and over.

      Setting yourself up to be disappointed because you have unrealistic expectations is not Obama's "fault".

      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

      by Mr Tentacle on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 02:39:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  He hasn't even been sworn in yet (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Librarian, Chacounne, b4uknowit

    Can't we just wait to see how Obama handles the very real economic crisis when he is finally sworn in in 63 days?

  •  Heart and mind (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    decafdyke, Words In Action

    In my heart I wish  Obama to be an FDR. In my mind he's going to be more Clintonian than Roosevelt. I hope the stories going around are wrong about Dean not being in the admin and I'm not all that thrilled about the former Clinton people. I like Rahm Emanuel and I think he's competent but at the end of the day I think he will influence Obama to stick to the center. I already wrote an email to the Change.gov site.  I have accepted that all I will get from Obama is 3 not right wing wacko judges on the USSC. I hope they're Stevens/Ginsburg and Souter are smart enough to resign in the first 18 mos rather than waiting.  I worry about the Dems losing the House in '10 because I think the economy is going to be in the crapper and Americans have disgustingly short memories and so will blame Obama and the Dems( I have a friend who's already blaming the economy on Obama's cap gains increase proposal.) Again, because of the economy, I really think Obama has a 6 to 9 month period to do everything he wants to do. After that, unless he's got a really spectacular communication skills and the Repubs can't get it together, it going to be downhill. If the economy picks up by '12, then he could get another rush and he'll be able to win  a second term and do some more good(assuming he has a Dem house and senate.)

    •  Have a little faith... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Librarian

      He's the Man, he's going to do fine. I share all of your concerns so I have to be reminded too. But I keep telling myself, "He's going to do fine, expectations are high, but Bush is an easy act to follow."

      You may find yourself in a beautiful house with a beautiful wife and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

      by FrankCornish on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 03:01:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why do I feel like I'm on a sports forum now (5+ / 0-)

    where the fans are ready to can a coach after a few bad games.  Probably is, the coach has not even taken the field yet, he's just hiring his assistants.

    MOREOVER, what the heck was the alternative?  At least in sports, you can find alternative coaches.  We had no choice unless we wanted a third Bush term without the Bush baggage.  And that wasn't a choice.

    we've had what--12 years of Democratic presidents since 1968.  We are letting the perfect be the enemy of the lesser than two evils.

    And frankly I believe Obama has a chance to be a great president, let's not nitpick on him before he does a darn thing, we have four years to do that.

    http://davisvanguard.blogspot.com

    by Doug Paul Davis on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 02:33:45 PM PST

  •  there are two types of change (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action, FrankCornish

    There are two types of change we need:

    1. better policies
    1. overhauling Washington to remove the influence of special interests and allow the voice of the people to be heard

    Yes, the first goal is important, and Obama will almost certainly enact strong policies.  But the second goal is much more important, as accomplishing that would allow the first goal to become accomplished much more easily in the future.  And, if you think the same Clinton-era pols are going to do much to change the way Washington works, well you are bound to be disappointed.

    •  something about those "Clinton" people (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Relevant Rhino
      1. one thing Big Dawg did right, was trying to hire SMART, capable people.
      1. one thing he screwed up, was marching in with too many brand new people, and they got all muddled up right off the bat, unable to work the DC system to their advantage.
      1. we're talking about 100's of positions, and if you want smart, capable, experienced people, on the center-to-left wing, you are going to have to accept that many of them may have worked for Clinton over his eight years! just merely for having worked with Clinton, does not mean that some of them aren't good people for the jobs!
      1. Obama is not making the mistake that Clinton did, he is not going to come in with 100% brand new folks. some of these may not be ideologically pure in our eyes, but at least they will have the right contacts, they will know how things get done, and they will be able to do what is possible.
      1. i'm saving my buttons, t-shirt & signs, because i have a feeling i may want to PUT THEM BACK UP, once the poor man actually gets into the House, and begins to REALLY catch hell from all sides--and he will.
      1. i'm no blind-faith Obama-tron, but man, i know i hired the RIGHT person for this job, and i want to give him a chance to DO it, and not go all bat-shit before we even get started. i hired him. i am his boss. and i'm going to give him my support until i can see what he is able to do. i have his back. and if/when i find i've got serious concerns about something he has actually done (or not done) then i will make myself heard, and hope that if enough of us do, he will listen.
      1. my buzz will not be harshed.

      : )

      éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é

      by Librarian on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 03:58:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Obama himself campaigned on the fact that you (0+ / 0-)

        couldn't change DC politics with the same old DC politicians (e.g., Hillary, McCain, etc.).

        So now what's his line?

        Sorry, folks, but it looks like a 3rd term of Clinton is the best we can come up with?

        I'm waiting, watching and hoping. But as many observers have noted, it looks wierd.

        If your actions speak louder than your words, you're not yelling loud enough. - Stephen Colbert

        by Words In Action on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 04:43:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  but these are not "politicians" (0+ / 0-)

          for the most part, not in that sense. the bulf of them are the appointee equivalents of civil service career people.

          you have to fill the positions, there are only so many people qualified for any given one.

          i think the MSM is what makes it "look wierd" more than anything, and we are falling for it. i am so glad i don't have TV anymore.

          éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é

          by Librarian on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 04:50:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Rahm Emmanuel and Hillary Clinton (0+ / 0-)

            are not politicians?

            If your actions speak louder than your words, you're not yelling loud enough. - Stephen Colbert

            by Words In Action on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 05:03:21 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  that's not (0+ / 0-)

              what this diary was talking about. this is about second guessing and rumor-mongering every possible last podunk person who may or may not be getting considered for some kind of appointment, that has not yet even happened.

              and, um...what was Hillary appointed to by Obama? did i miss something?

              éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é

              by Librarian on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 05:27:24 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Obviously the talk (0+ / 0-)

                about Hillary as SoS has been pretty thick lately, which is what makes it such a hot topic of discussion.

                People can, will and are perfectly within their rights to talk about things before they happen, even if they are not certain to happen, especially if they are leaked in specific, telling ways.

                You can also look at Summers, Rubin, Volker...these guys are not politicians? Please.

                Perfectly reasonable all over the place are observing the fact that 2 out of 3 people involved in the transition are either Hillary Clinton or someone who worked for her husband...which does strike the observant person as odd, based on Obama's campaign logic.

                If your actions speak louder than your words, you're not yelling loud enough. - Stephen Colbert

                by Words In Action on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 05:32:57 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

  •  Significant Improvement (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KateCrashes, FrankCornish

    And a bit of ramping down the global marauding.

    Not much more.

    Out of Iraq, no. Universal health coverage, no. Stopping the economic top end from continuing to get richer than the masses, no.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 02:42:34 PM PST

  •  change -- how about brains in the White House? (4+ / 0-)

    That'd be a big, fucking, refreshing change.  We all dream of President Bartlett, but we're doing okay right now.  

    The country has decided in a big fucking way that it really IS a good thing that your President be the smartest guy in the room (or at least one of the smartest).  

    The anti-intellectualism that's fueled the GOP for eight years has made me apologize to European friends dozens of times: "dude, I'm so ashamed to be an American right now."

    So perhaps we should relish the change that we don't have to be ashamed anymore.  

  •  Relax... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KateCrashes, Wisdumb

    There are always a bunch of people who overreact to everything. They swing from praise to panic in a matter of hours. Unfortunately, we've got a bit of the MSM sensationalist mentaliy around here. Tell people to let Obama lead and relax. We could really use a lesson on team play from the Republicans. Give the man some room--he's going to do fine. When you find one of your pet issues under siege, just ask yourself--Would McCain and a Republican Majority be better? It took the Republicans 12 years with a Congressional majority to get things this messed up. It is going to take a few years to get the wagon out of the ditch an back on the trail. Relax.

    You may find yourself in a beautiful house with a beautiful wife and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

    by FrankCornish on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 02:55:18 PM PST

    •  Low bar with McCain and the Republicans-- (0+ / 0-)

      you're suggesting people should veg out so long as we can't imagine McCain and the Republicans doing worse? With the bottom falling out of the world markets, 2 wars, global warming, and Obama suggesting that we CAN fix DC with the same old politicians, after all?

      Ok, whatever. Let me know when it reaches 33 degrees in hell... I'll go watch TV, I guess.

      If your actions speak louder than your words, you're not yelling loud enough. - Stephen Colbert

      by Words In Action on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 04:49:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I missed the inauguration? (6+ / 0-)

    Silly me.

    "2009" The end of an error

    by sheddhead on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 02:59:01 PM PST

  •  Johnson and Viet Nam (0+ / 0-)

    Our
    democratic leader lead us into war. And the result was Nixon.
    When Obama first stepped on the scene his big point was to end the war. I don't know when building up the war in Afghanistan came into his platform but I'm almost sure it was after it was too late to do anything about. (Like vote for Hillary)
     We've been of the hope that he was saying the things that it took to get elected.  Ralph Nader could be elected if he'd only learn to lie.
    Obama will be a one term pony if he turns his back on the progressives that brought him to this point in history.      Because......
    Hell hath no fury like a progressive movement scorned.
    at least I'd like to think.

    http://www.youtube.com/annonoman

    by tRueffert on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 03:07:32 PM PST

    •  it isn't just a matter of (0+ / 0-)

      the people who consciously identify as progressives.

      The volunteers and donors gave until it hurt and often didn't stop even at that point because we realized that America's at the "change or die" point. Many if not most had never been involved with a campaign in their lives before this election.

      If Obama doesn't give us what we paid for, when his organization starts contacting people in 2011 to put the campaign organization back together, all his organizers are going to get in response is "go fuck yourself". At least, that's what they'll get from the people who haven't already given up on America and departed.

      Obama's Presidency is America's very last chance to get it right now that America has collectively decided not to commit suicide by ballot box by voting Palin/McCain.

      Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

      by alizard on Sat Nov 15, 2008 at 05:41:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Agreed - I'm a lefty longing for the center (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Librarian

    And I never thought that the center would feel like such cool fresh clean air.

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