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OK, progressive Democrats, we have played a major role in helping to seize control of the White House, AND a super-majority (or damn close to it) in the Congress.

Now it's time to seize control of the party.

The fight has only begun.  

We all knew this was going to be necessary, so lets get on with it!

Purge the Blue Dogs, from the "bottom" to the "top"

All out, to take back the Democratic Party for the people, locally, regionally, nationally!

All Power to the People!

I'd like to invite everyone to consider and discuss how you would define those terms, "Blue Dog" and "Progressive", the implications of such delineations, and the tactical and strategic ramifications, in the comments below the fold.

I know, I know, these concepts have probly been kicked around a lot already on dkos, but now, as we really, finally, move into a new phase, a new era as it were, with the smell of victory fresh in our nostrils, picking up a tantalizing whiff of the prospects for actual real democracy on the horizon, if not yet fully realized, about it?  

Links to the best previous diaries and comments on this topic totally welcome...

Now is the time to launch all out campaigns to wrest control of the party from the Blue Dogs, which is going to require grassroots action on an unprecedented scale, building on, but transcending this election cycle.

Our present situation is what you get, when you focus the entire electoral struggle on trying to win over "swing voters" and "undecideds", who are too stupid or unprincipled to make up their minds about what party they want to support.

Now it's time to really take it to the rest of the progressives who have been holding back, that vast pool of people who strongly support the traditional rhetoric and programs of the Democratic party, but so many of whom still adamantly refuse to vote, out of disgust, shame, and contempt for the Blue Dogs who now control the party, and their virtually total capitulation to, and complicity in, the many treasons of the Republicans.

You can't really blame them for not wanting to be played for a sucker, by participating in a totally contrived, bogus, corrupt, commercial bourgeis electoral "process".

What is it going to take, to win those people over from the ranks of the "alternative" parties, the alienated, the fringes and the disillusioned, to convince everyone to get on the bus, and help us kick some Blue Dog ass?

We already have record numbers of youth, and virtually all people of color engaged in the political process, to a degree that has never been seen before.  How do we build on that, and bring them forward, to take it to the next level, and push it over the top?

Obviously we need quality Progressive candidates to step up, and to be pushed forward in their communities, to contend vigorously in every election from now on, from the local, to county, to state, to national levels.

Like any grassroots struggle seeking mass popular democratic participation, there has to be an actual fight going on, to mobilize and maintain support and participation.  

And it has to be clearly the best, and the most viable option, to convince those who are reluctant or too cynical, to abandon whatever other coping, avoidance, or diversionary pursuits that have kept them from joining us, to now make up their mind to throw down, and join the revolution.

Now is the time to organize that fight, and to get on with it, by relentlessly pressing the contradictions within the Democratic Party, in a material offering better candidates, and keeping up and expanding on the momentum that we have so successfully sparked in this election cycle..

So...What is a "Blue Dog", anyway?  And what is a "Progressive"?  

What are the implications, the benefits and the hazards of such delineations, and what are the tactical and strategic ramifications of such a struggle for power within the Democratic Party...and when and how should that ensue and be manifested?

Your favorite links to previous Diaries and Comments, or other sources on this topic are most welcome.

A favorite of mine, which I will put forward once more is an excellent analysis of public opinion polls in the US over the last 30 years or so, clearly demonstrating that we have won the revolution, and that all that remains is mopping up the Republicans and purging of the Blue Dogs, to thoroughly suppress the counter-revolution, and move forward on the urgent issues we face, for justice and peace, to save the planet.

Again I'd remind you, that the results of of this report are DESPITE the huge resources that have brought to bear by the counter-revolution to attempt to turn back the historic tide of change...

Is it Utopia yet?  NOT!  But my nose is open, and I can smell it...despite the lingering stench of treason and sabotage...and bitter sour grapes rumblings about the prospect of civil war...

Democracy is the Most Fundamental Revolutionary Concept!

Death to the Blue Dogs!  
(metaphorically, politically speaking, of course)

All Power to the People!

Originally posted to radical def on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 04:09 PM PST.


Is it Feasible, or Even Desirable to Purge Blue Dogs?

9%4 votes
6%3 votes
13%6 votes
4%2 votes
2%1 votes
0%0 votes
9%4 votes
13%6 votes
11%5 votes
22%10 votes
6%3 votes

| 44 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Lots of platitudes here. (6+ / 0-)

    But what you need to do is to:

    (1) Identify the "blue dogs" you want to primary; and

    (2) Identify the candidates who will run against those blue dogs who are worthy of support.

    Short of doing that, you are just wasting electricity.

    •  and (3) (6+ / 0-)

      ask yourself if this non Blue Dog can beat a Republican, because otherwise the effort is counter-productive.

      (-4.73,-5.05) Crush Chambliss! WE ARE ALL GEORGIANS NOW!

      by amnesiaproletariat on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 04:15:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's what I"m talkin' about...Yes! (0+ / 0-)

        I definitely agree with cityduck and amnesia, for sure...

        I'm totally not interested in playing a spoiler role, ala Nader, the Greens, et al.

        Even a Dog of a Democrat is better than a Republican pig, like, probly 99% of the time, lol.

        Obviously, this "purge" will have uneven development, going faster and further in some areas than in others, depending on the conditions.

        But yes, this is exactly what needs to be done, at all levels, is to examine the field, the available candidates, prepare to make the moves, and get the ball rolling, the sooner the better, to bring progressives, or even slightly more progressive candidates, heh, to the fore wherever and whenever that's feasible.

        And this election has proven, it seems to me, that a lot of places and areas that may seem to be so totally, or more or less, red, can indeed be made blue, more or less.  That has definitely been one of the most fascinating aspects of dkos reports, for me.  

        I think the same principle can be applied to this next phase, if the the "Blue Dogs" are called red, and the Progressives are the true blue

        I would add that by working with and supporting various progressive grassroots issue oriented organizations and organizing drives that are likely to be going on, or that need to be started in "red" areas, political demographics can be changed around those issues, if they are vital enough to the common interests and needs of the local population.

        "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

        by Radical def on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 07:34:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Don't you see? (7+ / 0-)

    The purging of party members based on moderate ideologies is (one reason) why the Republicans are a minority party.

    America is a work in Progress.

    by sydiot on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 04:14:15 PM PST

    •  erm..."moderate"? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Moderate is ok with me...but to me, that means somewhat to the left of "center", at the very least, which is where the American people are, along the lines of the majority opinions expressed in the report I linked above.

      Moderate certainly does not mean "conservative", to me, lol, nor to the American people, it would seem.  Anymore, "conservatives" seem pretty radical, especially in their anti-democratic tendencies.

      And it's not just moderates, that have been purged by the Republicans, seems to me, but more like anyone who's too much to the left of freakin' Hitler. don't ya think?

      "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

      by Radical def on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 05:51:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  TIP about it? (2+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Demosthenes, jimreyn
    Hidden by:

    I really want to know what other people think about this...

    Seems the best way to find out is ask.

    I don't claim to have all the answers, heh, but I think my "platitudes" speak for themselves, in terms of where I think things should go...

    "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

    by Radical def on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 04:16:13 PM PST

  •  If you purge the Blue Dogs, the Dems become (6+ / 0-)

    a minority party (less than 50%).

    "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

    by lordcopper on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 04:17:28 PM PST

    •  Oh really? How do you figure that? (0+ / 0-)

      That's a pretty sweeping statement...can you refer me to a source that would verify your opinion?  I pretty much totally doubt it, but am open being set straight on this...

      "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

      by Radical def on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 05:42:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm all for expanding our majority... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    capelza, txcronopio

    ...and being from the South I get tired of voting for Democrats who could run a credible campaign as a Republican someplace else.

     Still.  There is an electoral reality.  Think of Blue Dogs as disguised Republicans with whom we can reach agrrement somewhat more than half the time.  

     I don't see a realistic scenario which would permit us to "purge" them anytime soon.

     That said, proceed as cityduck suggests: Pick your battles. Purge them one at a time.  


    I'm Ben Bernanke and I'm going to spank you.

    by Donald Drennon on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 04:29:30 PM PST

  •  Blue Dogs=Conservative, Progressive=Revolutionary (0+ / 0-)

    By "conservative" I tend to mean the more anti-democratic, elitist elements, who think "the people" need to be led by the nose, manipulated, dictated to, because they are too stupid, ignorant, venal, degenerate, demoralized, brainwashed or coerced to really be trusted to make the important decisions...which I think tends to lead to more attention being paid to the interests, including profits, of the elite, than to the real needs and wishes of the people.

    I realize there are no absolutes, and stand ready to be corrected, heh...

    By "revolutionary" I mean a much more abiding faith in the masses, and a lot more of a commitment to making the party, and our country way more democratic, way more responsive to the popular democratic will, and way more solicitous about sussing that out, and really trying to implement it, rather than thinking we need some kind of elite power "over" the people.

    IMHO, democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary concept, and conservatism is the counter-revolutionary resistance to that concept.

    Again, I'm open to your opinions, proposals re: these terms and concepts..

    There are a lot of Blue Dogs on dkos, I know...and some of them are pretty mean and nasty, and seem little better than freakin' freepers, to me, especially on some topics...

    But then, my views probly seem pretty "radical" to them, heh...

    The point of this diary and poll and my sincere curiosity, is whether such elements are predominant here, or not...

    Many in the party, and here on dkos seem firmly convinced that only with the Blue Dogs, and the obsessive focus on vacillating "swing voters" and "undecideds" would the Democrats be able to win the election...

    But it seems to me that youth and people of color were a much more decisive factor in the outcome, and that bringing home those progressives who remain aloof in their cynical disillusionment with Blue Dog control of the party would far outstrip the numbers, and especially any "value" of those unrealiable, often substantially reactionary and counter-revolutionary Blue Dog elements.

    Am I overly optimistic?  Deluded, lol?  Right on the money?  I guess it will depend a lot on where you stand, lol...

    I have only my opinions, and a fairly inexperienced sense of what seems to be happening...would love to see any "proof", one way or the other, especially of comparable quality to the reference I have provided, re: public opinion in the US

    "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

    by Radical def on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 04:51:21 PM PST

  •  if I was an angry GOPer, trying to stir sh*t up.. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    canyonrat, capelza, Elvis meets Nixon

    I'd totally post this as Diary.

    •  LOL...yeah, I stir, and the shit rises to the top (0+ / 0-)

      mr Concern troll here posts 3 times, to say 2 lines, lol...see what I mean?

      Mean and nasty...but no real response on the topic, no real comment, except that he thinks I'm "too radical", presumably, and thinks that pointing to my readily accessible previous diaries will "prove"...what?  

      That I'm a freakin "GOP troll", LOL? naturally I shouldn't be given the slightest degree of respect or consideration, or any real substantive response to my post.

      I just really don't see why we need such turds in the party...somebody please explain?

      and btw, this is a very common "concern" of Blue Dog concern trolls, it seems, that they are sooo totally freaked out over the prospect that Rush, the Freepers, or Faux "News" will use supposedly unseemly "radical" posts as "ammunition" against dkos, or the Democrats, or Obama.  

      I think this is the ultimate in "concern trolling" by more conservative types to try to suppress more progressive we really need this shit in our party?  Hell no..

      I got news for ya, bubba...the election is over, and we won.  They can sit on that, and spin, LOL!

      What makes you think they aren't going to use your own posts, or anything anyone on dkos says, to "prove" that we are all a bunch of "whacky liberals" or worse?  They are irrelevant, anymore, and becoming more so every day, as MSNBC outstrips them in the ratings.

      "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

      by Radical def on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 05:37:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Pawlenty and Shwartzenager are Blue Dogs (0+ / 0-)
  •  this is a troll of the "stir shit up" variety (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    canyonrat, capelza, DemocraticLuntz

    check the old diaries.

  •  Gee, what do you really think? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    canyonrat, capelza

    trying to win over "swing voters" and "undecideds", who are too stupid or unprincipled to make up their minds about what party they want to support.

    People "in the middle" are all "stupid or unprincipled"?  Maybe, just maybe, they have "priniciples" that are somewhere in between the extreme right wing and the very progressive view of this site?  Maybe they are, for example, progressive on social issues, but conservative on fiscal issues?  (I know a lot of people like that, by the way.)

    You don't win over people by saying that, if they aren't on your side on all issues, or agree with some of what you believe but not all, then they must be "stupid or unprincipled."  

    •  I can see your point...and it's not 'wrong"... (0+ / 0-)

      But it seems to me you have to draw the line somewhere..preferably in such a manner that people can readily step over it and join you, rather than be excluded, perhaps...

      But ultimately, I have little patience anymore for going around and around with right wing conservative reactionaries, whether its on social or economic issues.

      And it seems to me that those two kinds of issues are pretty inseparable.  Just because a Libertarian Republican thinks it's OK for people to be gay, or smoke pot, for example, doesn't mean that their social darwinist economic perspectives are going to be any more tolerable.

      Again, I'm completely willing to go with the Popular democratic will on the issues, as represented in the Opinion Poll analysis..and like, pretty much totally opposed to anyone who would seek to avoid, sabotage or otherwise thwart that.

      To me, that's the criteria..what do the people of the country want...not what does some individual person think would be best for everyone else, if he was only king, lol.

      "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

      by Radical def on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 06:11:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  oh yeah, and the stupid and unprincipled... (0+ / 0-)

        Maybe it would make people feel better if I said ignorant and ethically challenged?

        C'mon...jeez, it really does seem like a no-brainer, to me, between the Republicans and Democrats, straight up.  I really just cannot fathom how anyone could even hesitate for a second, after even the slightest glance at the rhetoric, the demeanor, the programs...especially in the last election, LOL!

        Give me a I have to be some kinda harsh meanie, to point that out?

        Nobody is perfect, or perfectly evil,'s all relative.  But there really was no comparison, especially this time, and the last several times, lol.

        "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

        by Radical def on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 06:21:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  call them Limbaugh Democrats (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radical def

    many come from part of the country where talk radio rules and limbaugh is god.

    ignoring the talk radio monopoly continues to be the biggest political blunder in decades

    by certainot on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 05:11:54 PM PST

  •  Blue dogs are democrats (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    canyonrat, capelza, Radical def

    for reasons.  They feel the need to be democrats and provide control of the Congress and vote with the progressives on a number of important issues.  Many of the votes that they cast are under the radar and helpful in governing. They are Democrats because they agree with the Democratic party more than the Republican party.

    Purging them is difficult.  First you have to run someone against them in a primary.  Most of them are pretty secure from that threat.  Then you run a real chance that if you primary them, given the districts they represent, you wind up with a Republican Representative.  Republican Representatives vote to give control of the congress to a**holes.

    Plus, as a added bonus to those who support all of the Bill of Rights, I believe they will keep the Democrats from pushing gun control.  This of course would be politically unwise as well as just wrong.

  •  Okay, sure Mr. Club for Growth (4+ / 0-)

    whatever you say.

    Let's purge Russ Feingold too while we're at it, since I hear he believes there is an individual right to own firearms.  And how about that awful Dennis Kucinich, who voted 100% pro-life prior to 2004.  Didn't Obama say something about worshipping an "Awesome God"?  He goes too.  Purge purge purge!!!

    Idiot.  Here's a clue brick for you: We Blue Dogs ARE the Democratic Party in many states.

    •  Nice, real nice...tyvm (0+ / 0-)

      See what I mean?  Jump to conclusions, extrapolate my remarks to ridiculous lengths, inject adhominem, and refuse to really speak to the topic, except with self-serving, data-free assertions that I am soo wrong...WTF?  

      Why bother, if you don't really want to talk?

      If the people vote to purge, or not, the people mentioned, for whatever reasons, I woud be cool with got a problem with that?

      "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

      by Radical def on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 05:59:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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