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Here's what I wrote on my blog last night at about 10:30

The outpouring of angry twitter comments on Rick Warren giving the invocation has begun. Actually, I just learned of this late last night as I got home from a long day of working and starting the holiday shopping.

The name Rick Warren does not immediately get me up in arms. I know he wrote that Purpose Driven Life book and along with the fact he is pastor of the mega-church called Saddelback Church. I only know about the book from the Brian Nichols rampage in Atlanta. The Nichols captor that turned him in had been reading the book and I remember seeing an interview with Warren about how it affected him.

At the end of my diary, I give you my thoughts after "sleeping on it" and allowing some feedback to come in on my diary from last night.

Warren is not somebody that gets me all hot and bothered. I understand the criticism of his support for Proposition 8. However, I have yet to see him as this hateful guy in the mold of past well-known televangelists.

Here's a good diary on Daily Kos about how Obama cannot be completely blamed for picking Warren. The Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies has a lot of power in planning the agenda for the inauguration ceremony. I also remind you to be calm and temperate about this situation.

Obama has not appointed Warren to the chaplain in chief or anything more serious. In my opinion this symbolic invocation simply says I'm reaching out to conservatives and those that I may not agree with on all social issues. This selection does not scream that Obama hates gays or that we have a reason to be worried about his social views. I'm sure I will get lambasted on this, but those were just my initial thoughts.

Update from  this morning around 7:45

I was shocked to find out that I did not get criticized for my comments that promoted reconciliation, temperance and what could even be regarded as more than passive acceptance of Warren's role in the inauguration.

Most of the feedback I received also agreed that we should not have knee-jerk reaction on this situation. I also got a comment from a gay man who said

HOWEVER, I'd like to see gays, lesbians and straight allies take a breath on this one. Obama didn't appoint Warren head of faith-based programming, nominate him to even a minor under-cabinet position, or pluck him from obscurity and elevate him into national prominence by way of a vital executive office.

Obama invited this widely respected man to do nothing more than give a prayer asking for God's help and inspiration on the first day of an historic Presidency. An Invocation is, simply, a prayer. Besides, given that an overwhelming majority of Evangelicals do not identify as Democrats, and framing this choice against Warren's popularity and influence with Evangelicals, perhaps this one small gesture will help to remind them Obama recognizes their importance and contribution to the American experience.

Perhaps this selection could even be more unifying that it will be divisive. Imagine that for a second. Regardless of how you feel about those that may not hold your progressive views, they are people and may actually be good people who just come from a different station in life. Alienating them will certainly not change their views. I do not accept hateful views, but I can accept those that may simply be misguided.

I also read this morning that Joseph Lowery will be giving the benediction. Quite a contrast in my opinion.

Originally posted to alpolitics on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 05:54 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

    •  thanks for your diary. I was over at TPM, & (4+ / 0-)

      I personally liked this comment...

      Obama didn't ask Warren to give the invocation; that came from the Congressional committee that oversees the inauguration. They are also responsible for inviting Aretha.

      Next, giving an invocation is hardly a "platform for airing one's views." Warren will give a 2-3 minute prayer and I'm willing to bet it will be the most bland, ecumenical, boring things you'll ever hear. I doubt the words abortion, gay, stem cell, abstinence will appear anywhere.

      Finally, Obama has appeared in Warren's church several times during the campaign; he has called him his friend; he has stated they speak often but that they also disagree. You should also be offended by that and never should have voted for him in the first place.

      Warren is also willing to give the invocation for a president he probably didn't vote for and disagrees with on every social issue. Does that make him a traitor to everything he's preached and stood for over the past 20 years? No. IMO, it makes him a grown-up who doesn't think he'll be "polluted" by sharing the same space with someone with whom he disagrees.

    •  pathetic (0+ / 0-)

      pathetic diary. seriously, How callous of you.

      People like you 50 years ago at IKEs inauguartion would be posting,  AH let the N&^%$^ hating preacher have his prayer, whats the big deal.

      yeah,  way to be on the wrong side of history

  •  Look Rick Warren is simply a smiling hater (11+ / 0-)

    You are forgiven if you don't get this, because perhaps you are not from an evangelical tradition,.  But I am.  I was born and raised in such a church, I went to Bible summer camps.

    Rick Warren is just a new age, smiling version of the same old hateful Jesus slop that's been dumped on gays and lesbians for years.

    Granted he's not advocating capital punishment for queers, I guess that's an improvement, but just because he;'s only campaigning for gays and lesbians to be discriminated against by the state of CA doesn't mean he should be "celebrated" by Obamaphiles as hanging out on center stage at the inauguration.

    What many non-evangelicals and non-GOP don't get is the extent of the difference between the public face of love and Jesus, and the private face of the reality of what the Rick Warrens of the world represent and are doing.

    Don't be a dumbass and fall for the act.

  •  It seems it will take a while (10+ / 0-)

    To get over the "Us vs. Them" mentality. The fact that Obama is including everyone, even "conservative evangelicals" in the inauguration ceremony, simply means he will be the President for the whole country. He really meant it when he said he wanted to unite us.

    I think some may take it the wrong way. If Obama governs true to form, the gay community will not be disappointed. While he may bring a conservative pastor in for a prayer, he will govern by his beliefs, not Warren's.

    "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." Sen Daniel Patrick Moynihan

    by atlliberal on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:03:20 AM PST

  •  Look at it this way (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If Bush picked Rick Warren, would it be a problem?

    The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

    by ctexrep on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:05:23 AM PST

  •  I said this earlier. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kitty, Sychotic1, Earl3

    When Obama went to Warren's campaign event and said he agreed with Warren's definition of marriage, the Gay community was largely silent, calculating that Obama was better than McCain.  They were being tactical and, yes, cynical.  The current protest sound a little tinny as a result.

  •  For you to call it "nothing" (6+ / 0-)

    means that those of us who are offended by this stupid choice are somehow either wrong or irrelevant.

    Every Kossack should oppose the elevation of a man who seeks to eliminate civil rights of a large segment of the let.

  •  Warren makes me ill (5+ / 0-)

    And I got tired of people touting his book to me and telling me I would "help me" to read it.  But that being said, Obama has given him no power, but is using symbolism against the far right.  By having this turd give the invocation, that takes a hate-laden talking point out of the hands of the right, all those lies they told about Obama being a Muslim (not that it would matter to me), the Rev. Wright problem endlessly drilled into people's heads courtesy of the idiotic media. It will be damn hard to reproduce that when Obama uses symbols like Warren.

    I know Obama won with a madate, but the media doesn't admit it, and the right still has some nasty fangs.  I think Obama is showing himself to be above the insane screaming of the right, and without giving Warren any power, he can use him as a symbol and lessen some future problems he will surely encounter when he starts working toward things like social justice, gay rights, and reproductive freedom.  

    I care a lot more about what Obama does than who prays over him.  And whatever he does will be decades ahead of the punishments McCain would have put on us.

    Fox news: Even better than meth!

    by get the red out on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:09:25 AM PST

  •  But wait... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kitty, Buffalo Girl, get the red out

    I heard that after the invocation that Obama was going to announce Rick Warren for HHS and Faith Based Initiatives Czar as well as head of the FDA.../snark

    Obama/Biden'08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

    by dvogel001 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:10:59 AM PST

  •  Apparently (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kitty, bluesteel, emsprater, BentLiberal

    Obama thinks he needs fundies more than the GBLT community.  

    •  Obama has never campaigned for he GBLT... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      vote...that would have been Kuchinch...

      Obama/Biden'08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

      by dvogel001 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:17:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Of course he did (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Kitty, emsprater, alpolitics

        Here's some of what he promised GBLTs.

        1. Overturn DOMA.
        1. End Don't Ask.
        1. Support the Uniting American Families Act.

        Admittedly, he didn't promise to have Gloria Gaynor sing "I Will Survive" for the invocation, but nobody really expected a mega-church minister opposed to gay rights either.

        •  Has he backed off any of those things? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kitty, Buffalo Girl, get the red out

          Just because soem guy is going to say a prayer at the inauguration?

          "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." Sen Daniel Patrick Moynihan

          by atlliberal on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:24:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes DADT...but that was before RW decision... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Obama/Biden'08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

            by dvogel001 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:28:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  He didn't change his mind on it (0+ / 0-)

              He simply wants to make sure he gets it right, so it won't backfire.

              "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." Sen Daniel Patrick Moynihan

              by atlliberal on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:44:21 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well that is some positive spin... (0+ / 0-)

                we will see...meanwhile we are letting go good talent because they are LBGT and compromising our intelligence...because of a flawed POV that gays somehow are going to go after and convert heterosexuals when in uniform...

                Obama/Biden'08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

                by dvogel001 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:04:36 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I have a feeling that will change (0+ / 0-)

                  even if the official policy takes a while to change. even alot if the military generals are seeing the reality, and softening their position on it. The policy is flawed and everyone knows it.

                  "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." Sen Daniel Patrick Moynihan

                  by atlliberal on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:51:10 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  He's not president yet (0+ / 0-)

            There are far too many people commenting far too flippantly in these threads who didn't experience the Bush years as gays experienced them. Do you have any idea what it meant to feel like a second class citizen every day of your life, to wake up every day to some new election that would demonstrate just how much people loathe you, to be used as a wedge issue to garner support for other loathsome political purposes, to hear Democrats chatter about how we better not talk about gays because we may not win an election. Obama DID talk about it and made it a point to include gays in virtually every address, including his victory speech. Unless hearing that speech and that word spoken that night hit you in the gut and made you weep with relief that the idiotic war against you was truly over, you really should leave this issue to others.

            •  I care about this issue more than you imagine (0+ / 0-)

              My sister is gay. I will work as hard as I can to amke sure that she has the same rights as everyone else.  I have been around an almost constantly angry the last 8 years for this and many other reasons. My only point is that inviting Warren does not mean Obama will not support rights for gay people, actually, I think the opposite. Uniting as much of the country as possible makes it more likely that he will get more of his agenda passed.(Including gay rights)  

              "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." Sen Daniel Patrick Moynihan

              by atlliberal on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:42:50 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  You mean after he made a big deal... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kitty, emsprater

          about talking/debating him during the that did not mean anything.../snark

          And you ignore his fundamental split with the GBLT community...marriage = Man+Woman...

          It is hard to see how supportive someone will be when he does not fundamentally believe marriage is a right for GBLT...

          Obama/Biden'08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

          by dvogel001 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:25:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for your diary. I hope people here take (11+ / 0-)

    note because we are beginning to give "outrage" a bad name.

    We seem to outraged about everything we don't agree with.

    •  homophobia (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kitty, ExStr8, emsprater

      I really, really, really, really, really don't agree with it. It's very condescending for people to pooh-pooh the LGBT concerns.

    •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kitty, joycemocha

      And isn't there some other reverend guy giving another prayer at the thing? Nah, mustn't be.

    •  Really - this diary seems like a good position (5+ / 0-)

      The freakouts over Warren are making DKos look absurd.

      There is what this is, and there is what this is not. And this is not Obama saying, "I will work to deny civil rights to gays, and to prove it, Warren's my main man!"

      This is much more likely an olive branch extended to the millions of evangelicals who want to start this new presidency with a sense that there will be room for their views at the table. It's the opposite of Bushism.

      Every day's another chance to stick it to The Man. - dls.

      by The Raven on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:33:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I take it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        that Mr. Warren did not compare your marriage to pedophilia recently. You might feel differently if it was you he insulted.

        koee bolai raam raam koee khudhaae/koee saevai guseeaa koee alaahi/kaaran karan kareem/kirapaa dhhaar reheem

        by m3 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:38:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  He can insult me all day long (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sychotic1, joycemocha

          He means nothing to me whatsoever. The big meltdown over here, on the other hand, is now an item at Huffingtonpost and is likely to generate a news cycle of "Obama loses support from the left" which is unnecessary when, at the end of the day, this guy is going to mouth some sounds directed to the invisible deity.

          The diary "Yo Yo Ma? Are you F-ing kidding me?" really nails this.

          Every day's another chance to stick it to The Man. - dls.

          by The Raven on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:44:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Huffpo can talk about my outrage all day long (0+ / 0-)

            My reaction is appropriate to what this guy has said about me, and your concern about the news cycle is unnecessary. Giving this guy the honor of speaking at the inauguration is an unqualified endorsement; it legitimizes saying things that are completely unacceptable. Why am I supposed to go along with the equivalent of pinning a medal on a guy who tells people I'm the same as a child rapist? How can I pretend that that's okay, and why are you asking me to?

            koee bolai raam raam koee khudhaae/koee saevai guseeaa koee alaahi/kaaran karan kareem/kirapaa dhhaar reheem

            by m3 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:51:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  And it just hit the lede on CNN (0+ / 0-)

              See, the story isn't about Warren anymore. Isn't about gay marriage. Isn't about the inauguration. Now, the story is all about Obama is under fire from left-wing activists and ZOMFG his presidency is over before it began and Democrats in disarray and, and intra-party feuding and bloodletting and all of this over some minor purity-trolling.

              Sure, we may see this differently. Maybe you see Warren as some kind of important figure who will influence the progress of GLBT rights in this country, and I see him as being one of those god-talk yammer people. Fine, he gets to say a short prayer and then he sits his ass down and we get to listen to Obama take the oath of office.

              Every day's another chance to stick it to The Man. - dls.

              by The Raven on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:56:29 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  look (0+ / 0-)

                You're arguing against caring about this on the basis that symbolic gestures are not important. Symbolic gestures are the currency of politics. If Obama asked David Duke or Rod Blagojevich or Charles Graner to speak at the inauguration and bless his administration, would you find it unimportant and meaningless? If he could resurrect George Wallace and put him onstage would that be all right because he's only speaking for a few minutes and he might not mention school segregation?

                koee bolai raam raam koee khudhaae/koee saevai guseeaa koee alaahi/kaaran karan kareem/kirapaa dhhaar reheem

                by m3 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 08:37:42 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  OK, but you think it's bad now? (0+ / 0-)

                  What if the Obama team buckles under pressure and withdraws Warren's name from consideration? Is that what is desired here? I think that would totally torpedo the entire event and make the first move of the Obama administration a gay rights furor. I'm not sure that's the best move here.

                  Every day's another chance to stick it to The Man. - dls.

                  by The Raven on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 08:42:05 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  that's not how it would go down (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    The Raven

                    The spin on this has been that the Inauguration Committee chose Warren. Obama can claim that he wasn't consulted and ask to remove Warren from the ceremony. I don't expect that to happen, because word is that Obama likes Warren and did in fact choose him for the invocation. But it's one semi-graceful way out.

                    In any case this already is a gay rights furor, and it was Obama who made it one. He didn't have to choose Warren, and if it turns into a bad news cycle for him it's because he fucked up. Gays are really, really angry about Prop 8 and Obama waded right into it. It is now up to him to decide what is the "best move" given the perfectly foreseeable reaction.

                    I'm not a fan of circular firing squads, and I am not a purity troll by any stretch. If Warren had merely said he didn't believe in gay marriage, or even expressed support for Prop 8 based on what Prop 8 really was, I would be annoyed but hardly up in arms. But he lied, and he compared me to a dogfucker. There is no place for that, and it would be stupid of me to go along with it.

                    koee bolai raam raam koee khudhaae/koee saevai guseeaa koee alaahi/kaaran karan kareem/kirapaa dhhaar reheem

                    by m3 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 09:14:56 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  there's "don't agree" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tabbycat in tenn, emsprater

      as in "his ideas about transportation policy are all wrong" and there's "don't agree" as in he compared me, personally, to a pedophile. I can handle listening to people I don't agree with, if they are principled in their positions. LaHood, Gates, no problem here. But this guy compared my love for my partner, for whom I would walk through fire, to how child rapists feel about children. I'm not going to get over that and think of it as just a difference of opinion. It's wrong, it's a lie, and it's incredibly hurtful. You'd feel the same way.

      Take a second and think of your spouse, smiling and holding your hand. Now imagine you're watching tv with him/her and Mr. Warren says "Engine 08's marriage is fundamentally wrong, just like pedophilia and incest are wrong".

      I can swallow reaching out to the likes of Warren in the course of making policy on issues we have in common. He reputedly cares about poverty and (heterosexual) AIDS. I could deal with appointing him to something more or less gay-unrelated. But this gesture is an unqualified honor, it's like pinning a freaking medal on him. It's not okay.

      koee bolai raam raam koee khudhaae/koee saevai guseeaa koee alaahi/kaaran karan kareem/kirapaa dhhaar reheem

      by m3 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:37:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It was a political decision, no doubt about it (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kitty, get the red out, alpolitics

    Obama wants to invite evangelical in and he thought Warren was the most palatable for Democrats to accept.  Otherwise he could have chosen Jim Wallis, a true "evangelical progressive" but then that would have done nothing for the wingnuts Obama is trying to attract.

    Who needs political enemies, when you have concerned friends?

    by HGM MA on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:16:37 AM PST

    •  He's not ever going to attract wingnuts. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kitty, josephk, John Clavis, cadejo4

      If he does, it's not my party anymore.

      •  No he won't (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tabbycat in tenn

        i can not for a moment understand the bizarre prostrating that is going on here -- wrt the idea that somehow this is to include a segment of the population -- for some undifferentiated political purpose -- that will oppose the Obama administration at each and every turn irrespective of symbolic gestures like this Warren pick or ANY policy initiative -- these people won't EVER accept Obama as POTUS -- even if their own Jesus and Ron Reagan both appeared and told them -- hey, he is a christian and a good guy --- You should support him -- they would dismiss this as incarnations of the devil and it would only reinforce their belief that Obama is the anti-christ

        seriously -- how the hell are people that honestly think that Obama is the anti-christ going to be swayed at all!?!?!

  •  shouldn't Warren get some credit (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    for standing with a man that he probably doesn't agree with on a whole lot of social issues.

    i'm sure that some evangelicals aren't too happy with him.

  •  Warren very tightly scripted (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kitty, get the red out, alpolitics

    because there is this constitutional requirement saying exactly what time Obama must be sworn in.  One minute before noon.  After, the schedule slips a bit because an inaugural speech is in the hands of the President.  Reverend Lowery's benediction can last a tad longer because everything is approximate after the speech. The  benediction has more symbolism in my book.  

    Every time history repeats itself, the price goes up... Mind Sorbet

    by Pithy Cherub on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:19:09 AM PST

  •  I respectfully disagree (8+ / 0-)

    It is much ado about quite a bit indeed.

    •  Yup invocation today... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kitty, alpolitics

      head of HHS, FDA and Faith Based Initiatives tomorrow.../snark

      Obama/Biden'08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

      by dvogel001 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:22:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Misses the point (0+ / 0-)

        What do fundagelical leaders crave?

        A platform. A megaphone. A pulpit.

        Right now the fundagelicals are somewhat in disarray. They got what they asked for for the last 8 years and it turned into a disaster.

        Bill Graham is very old and basically in retirement. Falwell is dead. Robertson has shown himself to be completely looney tunes on far too many occasions even for them. Haggard is... haggard. And the list goes on. They are leaderless and rudderless at the moment.

        And what does Obama do?

        He hand picks a new leader for them to center behind by giving him the Bill Graham pulpit of national pastor.

        He essentially ackonlwedges their claim that theirs is the one and only true faith of the Christian Nation that is America.

        It may not seem like all that big a deal but it is a big deal indeed.

        And incredibly stupid politically. Incredibly stupid.

        No gain. All loss.



        •  And if he says wacky stuff... (0+ / 0-)

          instead of a nicely scripted invocation we can all blast him for that and have a nice debate out in the open...

          This is they type of stuff you say politically stupid I say smart that Obama has promised and will do for as long as he is better get used to it...

          Obama/Biden'08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

          by dvogel001 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:01:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  IMHO I think this is a wise (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joycemocha, get the red out

    move on Obamas part. To start.....
    It not only shows that Obama is Inclusive to the right wing out there. BUT.....
    It also puts Warren on notice with his flock....
    By him participating in an event and basically condoning and blessing
    a left wing, gay loving, abortion supporting, President. As I see it, Mark Warren has put himself in check-mate.

    I think this was a very smart move from Obama.

  •  I don't think this is... (4+ / 0-)

    much ado about nothing, exactly, but I wish people would remember that it's not just Obama associating with Warren.  It's Warren associating with Obama.  If Obama recycles the themes of his stump and victory speeches, it's very likely that we'll hear a reference to One America including, among all the others named, gay Americans.  

    I am emphatically not saying that we should be thankful to Warren for joining that celebration.  Rather, this can be interpreted as a gentle but clear reminder that, while our Inauguration Day may include people with diverse and controversial beliefs, the one who speaks for all the People is setting the tone.  Politically and rhetorically, having people you disagree with on display in that environment can be very effective.

    Now, I wish Warren weren't speaking, partly because of his beliefs and partly because I think he's a douchebag, but I also didn't just win a national election.

    baseless outrage : Republicans :: tuna : my cat

    by socratic on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:26:27 AM PST

  •  Anti-choice, anti-gay, anti-science (5+ / 0-)

    is very bad. He's a bigot and pandering to evangelical bigots is nothing new. I'd like to see some pandering to Farrahkhan and some Aryan Nation types. That'd be change!

    If Obama didn't want this guy he wouldn't be there. And he shouldn't be there.

    And I'm an Obama supporter. This seems to be his first real mistake.

    When will he kick the right-wingers I wonder?

    Man. Some "progressives" make Archie Bunker look like Tim Wise.

    by JayGR on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:29:05 AM PST

    •  Shinseki (0+ / 0-)
      •  Nah. That's a kick at the Bush (0+ / 0-)

        administration at best. Most folks who were for the war are now against it and know it was handled terribly. They're on the way down. Warren is on the way up and the LGBT community just suffered terrible set backs to equality in this last election cycle. Not to mention his anti-choice positions. That fight is still ongoing.

        Man. Some "progressives" make Archie Bunker look like Tim Wise.

        by JayGR on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:37:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  He can kick progressives all he wants (0+ / 0-)

      And if he turns around the economy, gets us out of Iraq in 16 months, gets universal health care, etc, it doesn't matter.  If he runs into trouble, though, he's going to be toast.

      •  I agree that (0+ / 0-)

        the policies that get passed are going to determine whether or not he is successful however as the GOP is going to obstruct at every turn it seems short-sighted to start insulting constituents that he'll need for support when the going gets tough. Perhaps he thinks the LGBT or choice voters won't remember this or that they don't have anywhere else to go. However, he gets nothing from this since the right-wingers won't cut him slack just because he has Warren do this  but Warren will seem more legit when he goes after Obama. It's a lose-lose proposition it seems to me.

        Man. Some "progressives" make Archie Bunker look like Tim Wise.

        by JayGR on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:54:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  outrage has been diluted (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1, joycemocha, alpolitics

    Almost everything Obama has done has generated "outrage" by some folks at dailykos, and the fight then talks on a life of it's own (Hillary, Caroline, Visalik, Warren, etc). We blew the outrage load over all the cabinent picks. All this outrage on figuring out Obama is making real issues seem secondary now a days. And that kinda sucks.

    First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win - Gandhi

    by mysticlaker on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:30:47 AM PST

  •  Rick Warren and the Assembies of God. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cadejo4, alpolitics, ffrf

    There are so many splinter groups assoc with AOG, and he's part of the group that believes that Seperation of Church and State is wrong.

    I'm hoping that this is just a bone thrown at the ultra-conservatives, I holding Barack to his pledge to the LGBT community outlined on The Civil Rights plank is heavily tilted toward the Gay Community, I hope he does what he says.

    End Don't Ask Don't Tell.

    I can't wrap my brain around what a wonderful thing we did!

    by Blue Texas on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:32:38 AM PST

  •  Shorter version of ... (0+ / 0-)

    the diarist's tome:

    Run along little gay people, scurry back to your closets and behave like the promiscuous degenerates we all know you are because good Christians like Rick Warren have told us so.  Obama can do no wrong.


    •  Now you know that isn't even close to what (0+ / 0-)

      he said, and it is rude to put words in other people's mouth.

      I live in California and I was physically ill at the Prop Hate passing, but this whole invocation thing...meh

      To me all invisible friends are bogus.  Prayers are something that sort of set my teeth on edge and public displays of piety give me gas.  Which means no matter who he trotted up there, I would likely be on the dispeptic side.

      There are bagels in the fridge

      by Sychotic1 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:13:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You know what gives me gas? (0+ / 0-)

        Having supposed like minded progressive folks tell me that my feelings are of no merit.

        Much ado about nothing my ass.

        •  There is no decision that our administration (0+ / 0-)

          could make that would mollify everyone.  I personally dislike all public displays of religion because I feel like I am forced to participate in something I heartily disagree with.

          We all have feelings, but let us not lose sight of the bigger picture.  I am willing to do whatever it takes to get equal rights for all Americans, but I am not convinced that the outpouring of outrage is fully warranted.

          In other words, of course it is okay to be disgusted, but it ain't the end of the world or even the defeat of any of our struggles.

          There are bagels in the fridge

          by Sychotic1 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 08:30:04 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Of course, what was ... (0+ / 0-)

            I thinking.  The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.  That's how we actually finally got our first AA POTUS, by letting overt displays of bigotry be highlighted on the national stage with subliminal justification by those in power.

            Oh well, in every society there has to be a group at the bottom of the totem pole.  Gays get to keep their spot, evidently, for another 8 years.

  •  ANY invocation by ANY pastor is BS (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Why exactly do we need an invocation at all? Are we worried we might forget the details of our respective religions if a representative isn't there to utter specifics that many of us present won't actually agree with, anyway?

    Frankly, if St. Francis of Assissi were available, I'd still say, "What's the point?" Tradition? Let's get some slaves to build the podium, then. Majority rule? That's kind of anti-American.

    Ditch all the religious flummery. This is a nation created and ordained by "we, the people". There's no divine right in America, so we don't need "His" approval.

  •  Much ado about everything (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emsprater, alpolitics, ffrf

    Prop 8 and the controversy around their supporters are much more than "nothing". I give you a pass on this one though. It's hard to know whats up or down when you live in the world of Alabama politics. Where it's OK to bring in foreign automakers and give them all kinds of state and local incentives, then have your Senator all over the TV DEMANDING that this not happen for the US Domestic producers.

    I don't have a tin foil hat, mine's cotton. Tin foil is overpriced due to collusion between Alcoa Corporation, Lizard People and Area 51.

    by CornSyrupAwareness on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:29:48 AM PST

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