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It's not as if Illinois doesn't have a history of electing African Americans to the Senate. In fact, it has sent two.

Days before Gov. Blagojevich was charged with trying to sell President-elect Barack Obama's U.S. Senate seat to the highest bidder, top Senate Democrat Harry Reid made it clear who he didn’t want in the post: Jesse Jackson, Jr., Danny Davis or Emil Jones.

Rather, Reid called Blagojevich to argue he appoint either state Veterans Affairs chief Tammy Duckworth or Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, sources told the Chicago Sun-Times.

Sources say the Senate majority leader pushed against Jackson and Davis — both democratic congressmen from Illinois — and against Jones — the Illinois Senate president who is the political godfather of President-elect Barack Obama — because he did not believe the three men were electable. He feared losing the seat to a Republican in a future election.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:32 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  in 2009 (18+ / 0-)

    does unelectable still mean "black?"

    There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:33:44 PM PST

    •  what's really ridiculous (21+ / 0-)

      is that he considers Tammy Duckworth electable. She lost a very winnable House race in 2006, despite huge funding and a major Democratic wave. I just don't get all this love for Duckworth.

      Madigan would be the best choice, or Jackson if he wasn't connected to this scandal.

    •  Not in Illinois politics (14+ / 0-)

      But the three black men Reid named are all unelectable for other reasons, which I spelled out above.

      •  that's what I thought (9+ / 0-)

        which is why the vague suggestion left in this relatively sparse text that Reid's opposition was linked to their status as African Americans is fatuous at best, and somewhat dark territory at worst.

        There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

        by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:41:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You can be sure that's how (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Susan S, oysterface, WIds, Elise, nonnie9999

          all of the individuals named will spin it. And all the Republican flacks. And the wingnut fringe. That it's a fatuous assertion won't matter to them.

          •  they have problems of their own (0+ / 0-)

            like being the "party of racial backlash."

            Republicans will always be seen as cynical on race until or unless they develop ideas with real and actual appeal to other races than WASP.

            There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

            by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:03:51 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah, but up to now they've managed to get away (0+ / 0-)

              with it. Their conventions are always a whiter shade of pale, they've never been able to make credible or significant inroads into any minority community--but that has never stopped them from playing the race card when they thought it could win them something.

              •  yea well they have the south now (0+ / 0-)

                big whoop.  They finally had their classic southern conservative president and he blew it for the prime years of a whole huge generation of adults.  I think the single best electoral shift is the loss of the Republican lock on evangelicalism.  

                They are crumbling in every region but the south.

                They may be able to get away with local elections but they aren't going to move the dial on the African American selectorate with these stunts.

                [Also I am disappointed the dictionary rejects the word selectorate.  Selectorate is a word, dammit!]

                There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

                by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:21:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  and yet it gets repeated on the front page... (7+ / 0-)

 if it has verifyable merit.

          You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

          by DawnG on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:48:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  this being in power thing (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DawnG, oysterface

            it's hard.

            There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

            by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:51:03 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Psst... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Elise, truesteam

              ...can we stage a coup?

              The idea kind of tickled me.  How do you take over a blog anyway?

              You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

              by DawnG on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:55:13 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Two ways (8+ / 0-)
                1. Seize the infrastructure.  Risk: High.  Likelihood of success: Low.  Possible Upside: Owning dozens of servers you can't afford.
                1. Produce material of such high quality that you are readily promoted to front page status, or to an Editor position.  Risk: Low.  Likelihood of success: Low.  Possible Upside: Adoring fans.

                There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

                by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:05:39 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  LOL! (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  You've thought about it I see.

                  Would I get nightvision goggles on #1?  because I might consider it then. :)

                  You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

                  by DawnG on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:07:22 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Heh yeah (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    but I considered #1 a degenerate plan owing to lack of budget for nightvision goggles.  Also, I work for a small company which operates a large content delivery network, so I have access to more servers than I could get at Kos' colo.  I also imagine, mine are in more diverse locations.  Additionally, I own two of my own that I cannot afford to plug in anywhere.

                    As for #2, too many people here seem to think I am a troll to guarantee any reason to expect success at the latter.  Even though I've met Kos and spent a day filming him in 2005.  

                    There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

                    by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:12:53 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

          •  What is wrong? Don't want everyone (10+ / 0-)

            else to know we may have issues in our own house?  Please, don't say anything about Harry Reid striking down the AA candidates but pumping up the non-AA candidates?  And God forbid if it is on tape?  We should not look at it that way?  How do you think folks here in Illinois like this?  We want this over with, a senator seated NOW, and this media circus off the table.  But no, we have to have non-Illinois politicians inserting their will.  Amazing and we are not to talk about this.

            •  it's innuendo (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DawnG, musing85, Micheline

              to say it's about race.  That's what we're saying.  Know about issues, fix problems.  Don't dither them with charged discussions on race.  Not that it's always out of the picture, it should be left alone here.  Blago did not eventually pick any of the candidates Reid rejected.  Is Blago a racist?

              There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

              by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:06:45 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Blago has always been (1+ / 0-)

                and opportunist, first and foremost.  I never liked him, ever.

              •  And it is innuendo that Burris is tainted (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Little Flower

                I thought that was the new standard around here?

                Do not become the sycophants we have despised for 8 years.

                by justmy2 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:17:28 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  To be fair, it is (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  Burris may be a schlub for accepting an appointment from Blago, this is true, but that does not mean he's tainted.  They'd need evidence he's tainted.  The Senate can seek it with due inquiry, and I doubt they will find it.  What then?  Some schlub is in the senate for a little while.  If he turns out awesome, great.  If he doesn't, that's why he's a temp.  

                  Saying he's tainted or the pick is illegal is not a good standard to bear.

                  There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

                  by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:25:20 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  My point exactly.... (0+ / 0-)

                    that is why the firebreathing and breathless attacks on Burris are counter-productive.  What is done is done?  If he is corrupt, or there was a quid pro quo, expel him.  All of the process are there, but yet the Senate is running around like chickens with their heads cut of trying to find a more politically expedient way to get rid of Burris.  It is shortsighted, and likely unproduutive.

                    Do not become the sycophants we have despised for 8 years.

                    by justmy2 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:42:29 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Burris isn't the issue. Blago's appt process is. (0+ / 0-)

                    Blago tainted the entire process by eliminating other qualified contenders for the appointment purely on the basis that they wouldn't enrich him and/or his campaign fund (...allegedly).

                    Ergo, no matter who Blago ultimately chose the entire process was improper. He could've chosen Cardinal George straight out of Chicago's Holy Name Cathedral and the central problems with such an appointment would remain the same.

                    Burris himself has nothing to do with why he's going to be blocked by the Senate.

              •  IIRC, at least one of the politicians Reid (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                rejected as unelectable (JJJr) was mentioned as being involved in the fringes of the Blago scandal through representatives and another turned Blago down. Also, considering he eventually chose another black politician for the job how exactly does that make him racist?

                The innuendo is of race but Reid was ultra-stupid for taking such a public drama queen-like stand against Buriss in the first place.  Threatening to bar him from the Senate chambers? His displeasure of the presumed electability of the other black candidates will now just compound the racial issues from this self-induced drama.

                IOW, even if it were unintentional and hell and gone from racism, it still looks bad and thanks to Reid's bumbling of the matter, now even more exploitable.    

                You don't reach out to shun it.-landrew

                by mentaldebris on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:33:07 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  I am not digging all of the insertion of motive. (0+ / 0-)

              It seems we have decided a person's motives as forgone conclusions.

            •  Is it a problem though? (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Odysseus, BruinKid, Micheline

              This story is presuming that the reason behind Reid's comments were racial, which is not in evidence.  Now if Reid had a history of racial inequity, that's another thing, but unless you can back it up with something else, this is really not enough to charge Reid with racism.

              Yes we should deal with problems in our own house, but we shouldn't make up problems.

              You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

              by DawnG on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:12:05 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  I have been questioning some of the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Front Page diaries and their 'supposing' tone these past few days, also.

          •  well...Reid is on tape... (2+ / 0-)

            so we shall see...

            was race a factor at all in the evaluation?

            Do not become the sycophants we have despised for 8 years.

            by justmy2 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:10:41 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Unelectable to WHOM? (11+ / 0-)

        Stop with this.

        Everyone yelling unelectable are the same ones who probably said Obama could not be elected.  Yes, you are.

        The same ones who argued that white folk would not vote for Obama, etc.

        Just stop.

        It is up to the candidate to campaign and go in front of the people with his/her vision and present it.

        If this country can vote in a man by the name of Barack Hussein Obama, then we are open and willing to listen to anyone who is on the up and up.

        Please, this is really prejudicial.

        •  hey (0+ / 0-)

          I don't know whether or not those guys are unelectable, but I do know it's innuendo to suggest that Reid allegedly poo-poo'd them because they are African American.

          So I was asking Kos in my comment whether his innuendo should be taken to mean that's really how he thinks Reid sees it.

          There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

          by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:08:51 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Unelectable to voters in Illinois (13+ / 0-)

          Your Obama-worship has apparently blinded you to such a degree that you are no longer capable of rational analysis.

          I've lived in Illinois for most of my adult life. I have paid very close attention to Illinois politics throughout that time. I worked on Carol Moseley Braun's first campaign for Senate, and I voted to send Barack Obama to the Senate in 2004. And I'm telling you, there is no way on God's green earth that Danny Davis (with his Moonie connections and his recent racist remarks about how Obama's former seat somehow "belonged" to the African-American community), Emil Jones (with his long history of carrying water for Rod Blagojevich and the disgusting manner in which he maneuvered to get his son appointed to replace him in the state senate), or Jesse Jackson, Jr. (who has only negatives outside of his own district because of his father, and who also is no friend to the Daley machine) would be able to win in a statewide election . Those are empirical facts.

          The color of the three men's skin has nothing whatsoever to do with their being unelectable. Nothing. And all your shouting and hand-waving to the contrary does nothing to make it so.

          •  recced for (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DawnG, revwkm

            roundhouse to the stomach.

            There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

            by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:14:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I have been BORN and RAISED (10+ / 0-)

            on the Southside of Chicago.

            Love for Obama?  Get the fuck outta here.

            I have heard white folk tell me straight to my face he won't win.  And I heard black folk tell me straight in my face he won't win.

            Who is to say who is electable?  Really who?

            My family knows Emil Jones and I agree with you on him, he is an old style, old fashioned pol who is a street fighter from Chicago.  I would not trust him as far as I can throw him, which is not far.

            I disagree about JJJ.  I felt the same way as you, at first, but the man is qualified and is a strong campaigner.  Why can't he go down to Southern Illinois, Central Illinois and present his case?  Again, we voted a man by the name of Barack Hussein Obama and the name alone was a challenge and I heard it UP FRONT.

            And as you are shouting and hand waiving, I have as much right to do so to.

            This whole mess stinks, Harry Reid has not helped it, the longer we are pissin in the wind over this seat, the better it looks for the Republicans.

            •  And there's your number-one problem (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              The south side of Chicago does not equal Illinois. I grew up (and still live) out here in what the Chicago pols like to refer to as "Downstate." And I'm here to tell you, the world looks a lot different from out here.

              •  here's a thought... (2+ / 0-)

                why not let voters decide...

                either one of you may be right...but the real issue is we have pulled the scab off...

                Party leaders have a heck of a lot more influence on who ultimately runs than the actual people.

                Let's figure out why that is instead of completing this thought experiment. The real answer is no one knows.  Let's get back to crashing the gate.

                Do not become the sycophants we have despised for 8 years.

                by justmy2 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:33:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  All you need is... (6+ / 0-)

                Chicago and the suburbs. Jones, Jackson and Davis would do just fine in places like Aurora, Elgin, Rockford, Joliet... not to mention Peoria, Springfield, Champaign/Urbana and Bloomington/Normal. So don't declare yourself king of Illinois politics just yet.

                Add on top of that the droves of Illinois volunteers generated by the Obama campaign, I think just about any Democrat would do fine... maybe even Burris if he chose to run in 2010.

                And if I remember correctly, you spent the entire primary rabidly advocating for John Edwards' failed, dishonest campaign, so I'm not sure your political judgment is to be trusted.

                •  whoop, there it is....n/t (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Potus2020, around the way girl
                •  Oh, really? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  Why don't you try running a campaign in Illinois along those lines. See how far you get.

                  Newsflash: "the suburbs" are not a united constituency. In fact, "the suburbs" are fairly reliably (and in some cases quite heavily) Republican. A candidate who will do well on the South Side of Chicago will get slaughtered in DuPage County.

                  And if I remember correctly, you spent the entire primary rabidly advocating for John Edwards' failed, dishonest campaign, so I'm not sure your political judgment is to be trusted.

                  You do not remember correctly. So you'll pardon me if I ignore your opinions on anything else.

                  •  I never indicated (0+ / 0-)

                    the suburbs were a united constituency which is why I singled out:

                    Aurora, Elgin, Rockford, Joliet...

                    not to mention places downstate such as:

                    Peoria, Springfield, Champaign/Urbana and Bloomington/Normal.

                    All places where Democrats black and white alike can win.

                    I apologize for the Edwards remark, obviously I remember your user name from somewhere else. Were you a Laesch supporter?

                •  LOL; This reminds me of during the primary (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  throughout 2007, there were Edwards and Hillary supporters that kept posting things like, "I like Obama, but America's not ready for a black Prez, so we shouldn't nominate him".  I'm not saying that musing85 was one of those, but this thread does remind me of those posts, and I can't help but smile at the memory. :)

              •  And I have family down state Illinois... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                I KNOW THE DEAL with the sentiment of downstate vs. Chicago.

                I was shocked Carol Mosely-Braun won, though she ran a wonderful campaign, her personal life and the running of her office was a joke.

                I did not know ANYTHING about Barack Obama, since I live in Lake County now and have for over 10 years.  It was not until I saw him on tv with his speech and it was repeated locally that I was like, "WTF, who is this guy?"  I was not engaged, did not get any literature from him during the primary or anything.

                In fact, Obama ran a damn good campaign by nurturing and campaigning down and central state.  He did not put any ads on TV until a month before the election in the Chicago market.

                I don't by this guy is not good enough, or this woman is not good enough.  Hell, everyone thought Tammy Duckworth was good enough, great but the voters thought otherwise by her campaign performance.  Any pol who has a vision must sell it to the voters, period.  If you have something there that will click, they will listen.

            •  Then why... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              was Jackson, Jr.'s name not on the list of replacements Obama had?  Obviously there was something about him, even though he was a co-chair of Obama's campaign, that stopped him from making it on Obama's list of potential successors.

              •  According to the report from the Obama transition (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                icebergslim, Escamillo

                team, Jesse Jackson, Jr's name was submitted.

              •  It was.. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                so I guess according to you logic he is electable...

                Initial press reports about President elect Barack Obama's preference list of potential replacements for him in the U.S. Senate left Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-Ill) off the list. According to an Obama internal review of the Blagojevich selling-of the-Senate seat scandal, released Wednesday by the transition, Jackson was on the list.

                The Obama list
                Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.)
                Comptroller Dan Hynes
                Illinois Veterans Affairs Chief Tammy Duckworth

                added later
                Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan
                Chicago Urban League Chief Cheryle Jackson, former Blagojevich spokesman.

                or does that mean you logic is careful

                Do not become the sycophants we have despised for 8 years.

                by justmy2 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 05:37:25 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  agree with icebergslim (0+ / 0-)

              I agree with you. I am from Central Illinois. I would vote for JJJ. I am sick of everyone worrying about Ill. politics.I think everyone should show Reid and Liberman the same love they have been showing Burris. Burris has to be 10x the senator compared to either one of these goofballs.

          •  uh oh... (0+ / 0-)

            guess you don't know where icebergslim lives....

            look out below.....

            Do not become the sycophants we have despised for 8 years.

            by justmy2 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:27:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  So now you're the decider? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Why don't we just run all elections by you and skip the mundane process altogether. It'll save lots of money. Thank goodness you and others with the defined CW know just how things will go.

            "This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected." - Barack Obama (3.18.08)

            by lapis on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:35:14 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  That's fine. I just hope that Reid didn't say (0+ / 0-)

            anything about race being a factor in these candidates' unelectability.  Because he isn't you.  You listed non-racial reasons for their unelectability, but maybe Reid did list race among his reasons.  And his conversation is on f'ing tape, the contents of which Fitz is now leaking to the press for God-only-knows reasons.  When the actual transcript (or God forbid, the recording itself) is leaked, God help Reid if he mentioned race.  If he did, then we need a new majority leader, as his credibility will be shot.  He's already ineffective now, just imagine how much more so if he talked with a sitting governor of race making someone unelectable.

            I also worry about what Rahm said when he discussed wiht Blago's cheif of staff the pros and cons of those on Obama's list of suggestions.  If he trashed people when talking of the candidates' cons (or if he, heaven forbid, said that race was one of these cons), it could be an embarrassment, which Fitz would just love to create by leaking.

        •  Wrong. (0+ / 0-)

          Those candidates that were listed would have a really hard time getting re-elected.

          I've lived my whole life in Chicago.

          There is nothing prejudicial about stating the fact that those candidates are really disliked by a lot of people in IL, not because they are black BTW, just had to throw that in there before you guys start accusing me of being racist.  WTF.

      •  agreed-----it's not black men he finds (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DemMarineVet, revwkm

        unelectable in Illinois, it's these black men.
         If any of them had half the appeal of Obama, he would not be described as unelectable.  All lack widespread appeal and the qualities which are attractive to a majority of the voters.  And I'm sure consideration was given to who would best match up with the probable future Repub candidate, Mark Kirk.
         Not all white people are electable.  Not all black people are electable.
         Skin tone was not a factor here.  And it's ridiculous to make this a racial issue when it isn't.

      •  Move along, nothing to see here (0+ / 0-)

        This diary is as lame as the huffpo piece yesterday - both with sensational titles and both with nothing in the body to back the implicit message of the title.  Lame!

        In Il there is a significant difference b/w chicago met area and the rest of that state.  the fact that reid understands this and doesn't want racial issues to block a dem getting re-elected in 2010 is NO big deal.  Kos posted this and he KNOWs there is nothing wrong with what reid did.  all three of these men cannot win downstate.  Additionally, I don't believe any of them were on obama's list.  

        I believe this "diary" is bullshit.  I don't like people playing around with racial bullshit.  As a black man, I have seen real racial BS - enough that I really despise crying wolf when nothing is there.  I call shenanigans on this diary.

      •  So is the Mayor of Chicago and the Governor (0+ / 0-)

        of Illinois, both of whom were not on Reid's list...

    •  Only in Nevada (3+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      Potus2020, fflambeau, Little Flower
      Hidden by:

      Not only is Harry a gutless coward, but blithering idiot as well.  Who are the well-intentioned morons who continue to support this guy as some sort of Centurion protecting the integrity of the Senate.

      I would trade Blago for Reid any day.

      •  I don't particularly like or defend (7+ / 0-)

        Harry Reid, as I think he's done a piss poor job as Majority Leader, but I definitely dislike taking speculation attributed to him, painting it with a broad and likely inaccurate racist brush, and serving it up chilled.

        There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

        by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:50:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Reid Racist? No. (0+ / 0-)

          I think we could have a better majority leader than him. I think just about anyone could do better. Dodd, Feingold, Schumer, McCaskill etc. Maybe he's an idiot, or a pussy, yet I highly doubt Reid is a racist.

      •  Ya well, hes keeping the rest of you from dumping (0+ / 0-)

        nuke waste in our state an hour from my home.  Guess that makes me an idiot for supporting him huh?

        A United States Marine, still fighting for our Constitution and our country! I Support and Defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

        by DemMarineVet on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:00:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  a hour rather (0+ / 0-)

          A United States Marine, still fighting for our Constitution and our country! I Support and Defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

          by DemMarineVet on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:10:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, it's "an hour" (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            justmy2, HCKAD

            The "h" is silent, so you treat the word as if it starts with a vowel.

            I'm sorry, DMV -- you know that I've defended Harry from worse than this for years.  But this "we're going to show how pure we are by denying Illinois full Senate representation during Obama's critical first months in office in order to be publicly seen as eye-gounging Blagojevich" is one of the stupidest political moves I have ever seen.

            His getting involved in this hardball at all after having put the kibbosh on three Black candidates -- which he should realize will be on tape -- makes it all the worse.  Whether it was due to race (not the same as "racist," but certainly discriminatory) or not doesn't matter: he slammed these three while apparently being blind to the possible deficits of Schakowsky (corrupt husband), Madigan (corrupt dad), and Duckworth (evidently awful campaigner).  Are Blacks being unreasonable to think that there's a double standard here?  If at all, it's pretty understandable, and it can damage Democratic electoral prospects nationally.

            He should never have gotten involved in the Burris appointment (except to say "Great, he appointed a non-corrupt Democratic placeholder, case closed!" if he was so inclined) and he should extricate himself from the controversy now, which includes not continuing to raise the heat on the issue by blocking Burris from serving.

            He's also probably killed Rory Reid's candidacy.  Feel free to pass on my regards.

            •  Its Dick Durbin too tho. And the rest of the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              caucus.  You can't pin this on Sen Reid.

              A United States Marine, still fighting for our Constitution and our country! I Support and Defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

              by DemMarineVet on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:08:22 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  It's his responsibility to stop it (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                fflambeau, Little Flower

                He made the initial message.  Whether he got Durbin to speak, or Durbin got him to speak, or they both agreed with doing so from the outset, it is his butt on the line.  Whether or not it should be pinned on Reid -- and we're going to disagree there -- it can and will be pinned on him.  The only good way out I can see is if he plausibly denies having opposed these three candidates, and chances are that if he did so he'd be lying, so I hope he doesn't.

                At a minimum, having made these comments, he should get out of Burris's way.  I can imagine a very low turnout among African-Americans in Nevada if the state Republicans play this story the right way.  He could lose the party his seat and the Governorship over this.  His friends are the ones who have to let him see reality here, so there you go.  If you want, give him my phone number and I'll tell him to his face.

                •  I'm going to go with: (0+ / 0-)

                  You lead with the caucus you have, not the one you wish you have.  

                  Sorry to channel rummy.  But it fits an overall theme of leadership in the Senate.  Unless you're LBJ.

                  A United States Marine, still fighting for our Constitution and our country! I Support and Defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

                  by DemMarineVet on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 04:07:37 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  As you know, I make that argument a lot (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    It doesn't fly this time.  His reaction to the Burris appointment could and should have been either "great, we kept him from making a corrupt appointment, we welcome Senator Burris to our ranks" or "we'll wait and see to ensure that there was nothing corrupt about this appointment."  Either would have been fine.

                    What he did -- what he himself did -- was to ratchet up the temperature.  That was bad.  Having done so knowing that Blago had this bullet to shoot at him was absolutely crackers.  No one with an ounce of sense should have done this.  I'm amazed.

            •  Man you hit every point (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Seneca Doane

              On the head exactly how I feel you got real deep sense of empathy in your heart I can feel it

              men lie women lie numbers dont Jay-Z

              by Changeweseek on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 10:31:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  i think most sane Nevada politicians oppose (0+ / 0-)

          the Yucca mountain dump.  That doesn't make Reid a hero.  It makes him a smart politician in Nevada.

          •  Not every pol has the SML spot tho. (0+ / 0-)

            And hes managed to cut a bunch out of the Yucca budget despite having Bush in office.

            A United States Marine, still fighting for our Constitution and our country! I Support and Defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

            by DemMarineVet on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:07:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Same here: (0+ / 0-)

        I would trade Blago for Reid any day.

    •  Well, no. (8+ / 0-)

      Danny Davis is an undistinguished house Rep with too-cozy-by-half ties with questionable people such as the Rev. Moon, Todd Stroger (the Cook County president who succeeded his stroke-ridden father in a behind-the-scenes deal), and yes, Blogorevitch. He is a classic Chicago machine politician in a safe seat whose political vision and appeal doesn't extend beyond his district. Actually I don't think he has that much appeal inside his district either. But he is the Democratic incumbent and that is practically the only reason he gets reelected.

      Jesse Jackson Jr. hasn't exactly distinguished himself either. He is thought as a reformer because he sometimes rub against Mayor Daley; but I suspect it arises more from a personal animus than any political disagreement. His political career has been entirely within Chicago, and to be a senator you have to have some interest is the rest of Illinois. Nothing he has said or done has shown any indication that he has any interest in down-state issues.

      Finally, Emil Jones is an experienced legislature. He also happened to preside over several of the most dysfunctional legislative sessions in Illinois history. The  Democrats control the Governorship, House, and Senate; hey also fought each other tooth and nail in the most long drawn-out battles on the budget, taxes, health care, public transit, etc. often from very trivial pretexts. Jones bears a significant portion of blame for the current mess in Springfield. He is also extra cozy with Blago, his recent eagerness to impeach Blago notwithstanding. Interesting he just retired from the IL senate partly because of his age. But I guess if Robert Byrd can be in the senate, why not Emil Jones?

      The point here is Reid is right. Davis, Jackson, Jones are all terrible candidates for state-wide office. Davis and Jackson are manifestly uninterested in downstate IL; Jones is (was) a part of the extremely unpopular and dysfunctional leadership in Springfield. As a resident of IL and Chicago, I'm all for an African American to take over Obama's senate seat. But to have a mediocrity at best (Jones, Jackson, Burris), and a very bad choice indeed (Davis) to fill that seat, just because he is Black, is a disservice to all the people of Illinois who deserve the best possible representation in the US Senate.

      •  Well said. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I think Reid is a disgrace as a Democratic leader, but he has a fairly solid point, in re:  The Unlikely Electability of Jones, Jackson and Davis.

        The Jackson name is anethema south of the Cook/Will county lines while Jones is part of the unholy trinity which includes Todd Stroger and little Richie Daley.  The three of them dislike and mistrust each other as much as the First Triumverate but all three are equally mad for power.

        I've admired Congressman Davis for his shepherding of the Second Chance Act through Congress, but he is not well known outside of his own District - and I'm afraid his age is rather a point against him.  

        Tammy Duckworth is a very nice lady, but I believe would be out of her depth in the national spotlight.

        By far the most viable candidate would be Attorney General Lisa Madigan, but I, like a number of people are looking forward to being Governor some day soon.

        Our promises are made in proportion to our hopes, but kept in proportion to our fears.-LaRouchefoucauld

        by luvsathoroughbred on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:48:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Fine. And if that's all Reid said in his talk (0+ / 0-)

        with Blago, then there's no real problem.  But if he mentioned race as a problem, then when Fitz decides to leak that, there will be big problems.  Hopefully Reid didn't mention race as an issue when talking of these people's unelectability.

    •  Yall just dont get it (0+ / 0-)

      Im 25 yeard old black dude I'm from the city or the chi. And I pretty open minded but comeon he eliminated all the serious black canidates Jackson Jones and davis the only thing they have in common is they are black. And I might have a GED but I can use the little reading comprehension I learned in 9th grade and infer some things. There are no black people in the senate and that not none of our fault  including harry reids But anybody with half the political brain can see how a republican can take this a make a reasonable argument to the african american community and then the only hope would be obama coming in to save whoever is in that seats ass but if obama coatails are as long as I think they are in Illinois I dont think it matters I think any decent canidate would win the map has change for real.  

      men lie women lie numbers dont Jay-Z

      by Changeweseek on Sun Jan 04, 2009 at 12:30:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Echoing Sirota again? (19+ / 0-)

    Course his argument was worse what with the claims about "white male" supremacy when Reid supported notorious white guys Tammy Duckworth and Lisa Madigan.

    "I gotta rec that sh*t, even though it is completely tasteless and rude."

    by DemocraticLuntz on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:33:51 PM PST

  •  What a dipshit. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lois, Potus2020, icebergslim, jeanjacques

    Now they're going to have to seat Burris.

  •  Kos (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    geez53, Vladislaw

    must have finished his vaction

  •  Harry Reid: a modern-day Censor (15+ / 0-)

    In ancient Rome, there was an official called a Censor; he decided who qualified for senatorial rank and who should be expelled from the body on account of misconduct.

    Maybe Senator Reid will show up for Tuesday's session wearing a toga.

    "There's no doubt in my mind, not one doubt in my mind, that we will fail."--George W. Bush.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:35:18 PM PST

  •  I see it more as (20+ / 0-)

    Reid opposed three candidates with electability issues that happen to be African-American.  I'm completely unenamored by Reid's recent "leadership" but I'm not sure the way you've framed it is completely fair.

    •  precisely (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DawnG, oysterface, nonnie9999, PalGirl2008

      it cannot be made out of bounds to call someone unelectable just because they are black.  Black has been proven to be NOT unelectable [ie: very electable] and this just does not pass through as a subtext.  

      I don't know enough about IL politics to judge the quality of Reid's electability judgment.  Perhaps he's totally wrong on those guys, maybe he's spot on.  I doubt he is hesitant to believe Illinois will vote for African Americans.  That'd be absurd!

      There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

      by abundibot on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:38:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Who in the fuck is he to speak for IL (4+ / 0-)


      •  He has the same right to express his opinion... (8+ / 0-) you do.  as everyone else does.

        Does he not?

        You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

        by DawnG on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:49:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Read some of these responses (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DawnG, BDA in VA, fflambeau

        defending this clown.  It's unbelievable that this site has that many readers who refuse to take the blinders off.  It's as if ANY criticism of gutless Democrats is tantamount to having a Bush mancrush.

        Get over it people.  There are many gutless Democrats in our Congress and the sooner they are recognized and replaced with true progressives, the better for America.

        •  Um, wow... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DawnG, Elise, majcmb1

          you know nothing about the history of this site and the amount of criticism Reid has gotten.  Otherwise you wouldn't have made such a stupid statement.

          I mean, just look at Reid's approval numbers in kos's last leadership poll, from two weeks after Obama was elected.  84% of us DISAPPROVE of the job he's doing, and that's not even getting into the 500+ comments in that story.

          And yet you say:

          It's as if ANY criticism of gutless Democrats is tantamount to having a Bush mancrush.

          So... I can't take anything you have to say seriously now.

          •  People here are defending Reid (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            BruinKid, JeanJacques is simply pointing out that lots of people on this diary are STILL defending the bumbler, Harry Reid.  EVEN AFTER it has been revealed that Reid called Blago on 3 December and argued against the appointment of 3 well known black candidates, including Jesse Jackson Jr. to the senate post.  1) Reid ostensibly said these people couldn't be elected in 2010 but then pushed Duckworth (who has just lost an election and has never been elected to anything).  Does that make much sense?  2)  Reid knew or should have known (he certainly has a pipeline to Illinois through Dick Durbin, Obama and Emanuel) about Blogo's corruption on 3 December, yet REID HIMSELF dickered with Blogo and is pushing people for office in Illinois.  He has a horse or horses in the race. 3)  note too that Reid's actions on Burris may endanger the progressive candidate Al Franken from being seated. Repubs have called for a filibuster.  Reid is not a progressive and has in this case opposed someone who is (Burris took strong positions in support of gay rights and pro life in 1990) and endangers another progressive in Franken.  He has spent more time and energy fighting with people more liberal than himself in his own party than he has with Bush & Co.  That is why lots of us here feel Reid must go and there is no defense for his actions whatsoever in this case and lots of others.  Stop being a Reid apologist as are JedL and BarbinMD here and in other diaries.

        •'re funny. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Oh wait, are you being serious?

          That's downright stupid if that's the conclusion you've come to.

          Reid has a lot to be "criticized" for, and have no doubt he gets the lion's share of criticism here.  But to latch onto something as flimsy as this, and declare it MUST be Reid is a racist is offensive to reason.

          You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

          by DawnG on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:22:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  On racism look at the facts (0+ / 0-)

            The Sun-Times reports that Reid opposed 3 prominent black politicians for the senate post including Jesse Jackson, Jr.  Apparently, his rationale was these 3 would not be electable in 2010. Yet at the same time he proposed Duckworth (who just lost a congressional race in a landslide democratic year) and has never been elected to ANYTHING.  Now, DawnG, does that look reasonable or does it look like an excuse on the question of race?  Moreover, note that Burris would be the only black in the senate and Reid is also not only opposing him, but threatening to have him arrested if he appears at the senate.  Sure, keep believing that race has nothing to do with this.  Look at who is in the senate, and more importantly who isn't please.  There are zero blacks in the senate and when Obama was there, he was the only one.  

      •  Well, we IL voters (5+ / 0-)

        won't be able to say anything until 2010 at this point unless the state legislature calls a special election.  

        As for Reid, my guess is that it is probably common for the party leader on either side of the aisle to weigh in on a governor's potential selection behind the scenes.

        •  True (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          justmy2, bobnchitown

          I's sure as leader he gave his opinion-but sadly he walked into a giant piece of muck.

          And, he's not helping by not seating Burris, which is likely the end result.  That said, I loved that the Senate built the initial firewall.  The problem is that Blago had the right to appoint and changed the game.  

          Any discussion of others is moot.

      •  Exactly. what happened to federalism? (0+ / 0-)

        These inside-the-beltway types are dismissive of democracy and federalism; they just hate to have elections.  Reid doesn't know IL voters from a hole in the head.

        The Burris nonsense could be solved with an election - an election that Dems have about an 80% chance of winning.  Why won't these people learn?

        •  80% is a bit generous ..... the retugs are (0+ / 0-)

          spending good money, they don't have, in my red air media market to push for a special election. No idea what they're doing in Chicago or Metro East, but they must smell some blood in the water.

          2008 is So yesterday.

          by geez53 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:35:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  They're Wasting Money In The Chicago Market (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            as well.  No matter how tone deaf Reid's remarks are, the IL Repubs are like their national party, i.e., clueless.

            Obama's and Durbin's support for the Senate's position will go a long way in Illinois.

            The IL GOP's efforts at this point seem primarily focused on getting a special election (loser) and castigating the democrats through Blago (blunted by everyone's support of impeachment).

            "You can tell the truth but you better have a fast horse." - Rita Mae Brown -8.38, -5.54

            by majcmb1 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:19:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  The candidates he thought were OK (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, justmy2, Halsted

      have electability issues too.  (I write as one very impressed by Schakowsky but who wishes that she were divorced.)  Picking and choosing among them as to what debilities are fatal and what aren't may not be racist, but it sure will look like it to African-American voters.  Not seating Burris in this context would be seen as twisting the knife -- absolute lunacy.  I don't think Reid's a racist, but I think he thinks that Illinois voters are, and it ends up in the same bin.

    •  It's not the way kos framed it, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      icebergslim, fflambeau

      it's the way it looks.  Reid looks bad here because he turned seating Buriss into a bloody political soap opera/pissing contest with Blago.

      Now it comes out he wanted no black politicians potentially in the running to take the seat.  The reasons for not wanting them are now besides the point. Because he is being so strident on Buriss it just looks bad.

      It was silly when shouts of racism was bandied bout because of the Buriss pick.  But with this new info, I'm not sure how, or even if Reid can shovel his way out of this.

      Of all the things Reid could have taken a public stand on it had to be this.  The man is a political trainwreck.

      You don't reach out to shun it.-landrew

      by mentaldebris on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:50:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Can we get together to get rid of (10+ / 0-)

    Reid now? Is this enough? Sigh.

    -4.88 -6.15 Fraggles all over the world approve this message.

    by fraggle1 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:35:44 PM PST

  •  Reid shows his true colors. He lost his right to (11+ / 0-)

    block Burris.

  •  I'm very disappointed in you for this headline Kos (22+ / 0-)

    You know, some people are like slinkies, they're good for nothin'! But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

    by Muzikal203 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:36:29 PM PST

    •  No. (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lois, PD41, liberte, klamothe, Potus2020, lgcap

      Kos is right on this. Factor in the fact that Reid is in negotiations at this time with Senate Republicans to accord Norm Coleman some sort of provisional status in the chamber. Neither Coleman nor Burris is properly credentialed at this point. Coleman may not get voting privileges, but he may be admitted to the floor as an observer.  Yet, Burris may get denied entry to the Senate floor by the sergeant at arms.  They might as well install separate drinking fountains for blacks and whites in the Capitol.

      •  Yeah, because that's EXACTLY (5+ / 0-)

        the same situation.

        (BTW, Congressman Rush, I didn't know you were a Kossack! Hi!)

        Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

        Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

        by Jyrinx on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:57:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Bullshit (5+ / 0-)

        it's not about opposing African American nominees. And you really shouldn't be promoting the bullshit idea that it is.

        You know, some people are like slinkies, they're good for nothin'! But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

        by Muzikal203 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:57:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nevertheless... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          liberte, ChesCo Dem, fflambeau, Adept2u

          Reid has opposed all African American nominees for the Senate seat in Illinois. He's even threatened to go so far as to have the sergeant at arms deny entry to the non-credentialed Roland Burris at the Senate door. Yet, Norm Coleman, who similarly has no credentials, may be allowed to waltz right in and park his fat ass in a seat on the Senate floor. Call it what you will, but I call it racism. It walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck -- so I call it a duck.

        •  Of course it is. You see any on that list (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          justmy2, CryptoPolitico

          who aren't?

          The question is whether it was done on account of their race.  There are good reasons to oppose each, I suppose, but I submit that the reason to oppose Jackson is that voters don't like his racially active father.  Now, Madigan has a corrupt father and Schakowsky has a corrupt husband.  Why excuse one and not the others?  It's because of the expectations of what voters would do.  I don't think that Reid's a racist; he just thinks (with some reason) that Illinois voters are.  That's discrimination.

          Do you really think you can speak for non-college-educated African-American voters in this respect, especially once it is compounded by barring Burris from his seat?

          •  How about African Americans who have won (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            statewide office in IL who Reid didn't mention. Burris? Jesse White?

            The fact is - Reid didn't name every potential nominee who was black and say no to them. He named three potential nominees who simply cannot win statewide office in IL (although I'd argue Davis had a great shot up until his comments last week).

            Reid wasn't discussing candidates based on race. He was discussing them based on statewide electability. That's something we DO have to worry about. And you know...SOME IL voters are racist. And yet, those racists voted for Obama. We need a Senate candidate who can win statewide. Period. Those three gentleman cannot.

      •  They don't need to in the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Seneca Doane, CryptoPolitico

        Senate, since it is an all white club.

    •  Pretty good bullshit test: (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, Elise, PalGirl2008

      If Sirota diaries it, and does not make the rec list, it's bullshit.

      Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

      Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

      by Jyrinx on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:54:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  That's the same thing I thought when I read this (6+ / 0-)

    then I thought Harry Reid couldn't be that stupid, But since it is Harry Reid, I guess Yes, he really is that stupid.

    We are the ones we've been waiting for, he liked to say, but people were waiting for him, waiting for someone to finish what a King began.

    by Snickers77 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:37:04 PM PST

  •  Reid is the one that is unelectable in NV (6+ / 0-)
  •  Reid should let us have our placeholder, then. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Skid, Seneca Doane, icebergslim

    Let the primaries roll.  We'll see who is strongest.

    Instead, he's torpedoing our chances for any democrat by looking like an idiot.

    Like any exclusive club, the Senate SHOULD be able to choose its own membership. Burris? Not our kind, dear.

    by Inland on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:37:10 PM PST

  •  Stop the madness Kos (12+ / 0-)

    I'll post the same thing I did in the Sirota thread:

    Pointing out that people whose sphere of influence is limited are not electable in wider selections isn't exactly controversial. Obama himself lost his 2000 bid for the House because his profile in Hyde Park wasn't enough to unseat Bobby Rush, who was known citywide.

    Where I disagree with Reid is that Tammy Duckworth magically becomes electable in a statewide election if Obama and Durbin cosign.  It don't work that way in downstate Illinois -- they didn't give a damn who the Chicago machinery give their blessing to.  They either like you or they don't.

  •  For once, Reid was right (9+ / 0-)

    Jackson, Davis, and Jones (especially Jackson and Jones) would be unelectable in a statewide race. Jones has been carrying water for Blagojevich for, roughly, ever, and just managed to get his son placed in the seat he's vacating in the state Senate.

    Jesse Jackson would have to contend with his father everywhere outside of Chicago, and has not got a lot of favorables to make up for that deficit. Danny Davis, especially after his own racist comments recently, suggesting that Obama's former seat "belonged" to African-Americans, would also be a tough sell.

    •  Exactly. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, musing85, oysterface, kyeo

      But apparently people who have only worked for the Chicago political machine know how to win statewide in Illinois better than those of us who have lived and worked throughout the state.

    •  So Jackson can't be appointed because (5+ / 0-)

      his father's a civil rights leader and downstaters hate that sort of thing.

      Oh, that doesn't sound racist at all!

      I don't think Reid is racist; I think that he believes (as do many people) that the election of Braun and Obama were flukes and that downstaters won't vote for any Black candidate who doesn't perspire gardenia perfume.  But that belief leads to discrimination against Black candidates, does it not?

      And Blacks are within their rights not to like that, are they not?

      My problem isn't actually so much with Reid having made such a comment if that's his view.  My problem is that, having made such a comment and knowing that Blago knows he made it and that it is on tape, he went ahead with this boneheaded opposition to seating Burris anyway (and still might!)  We've heard a lot of criticism of the "optics" of Burris's standing on a stage with Blago -- well, those bad optics are nothing compared to Reid's having made a comment that will be construed with fair reason by the Illinois African-American community (and probably by those out of state) as racist in effect in not in intent and then blocked an African-American appointee from office.

      Talk about your tough sells.  This was gross political malpractice.  Signed, a former Illinois resident who voted for Burris and Quinn.

      •  We have a winner...ding ding ding... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CTPatriot, Seneca Doane

        My problem isn't actually so much with Reid having made such a comment if that's his view.  My problem is that, having made such a comment and knowing that Blago knows he made it and that it is on tape, he went ahead with this boneheaded opposition to seating Burris anyway (and still might!)

        And Blagojevich is throwing right back in his face.... you all know why Republicans have run all over Democrats the last 8 years...

        Do not become the sycophants we have despised for 8 years.

        by justmy2 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 04:00:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Rec'd for (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Seneca Doane

        Talk about your tough sells.  This was gross political malpractice.

        It's not just the deeming of the named politicians as being unelectable, it's the Burris fiasco on top of it.  Bad, bad optics.

        Regardless of his intentions Harry just handed a gallon of gasoline and a match to anyone who wanted to make race the issue.

        You don't reach out to shun it.-landrew

        by mentaldebris on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 04:03:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Nice try at ventriloquism (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        However, I saw your lips moving--and I never said anything like what you're trying to attribute to me or to Sen. Reid.

        Jesse Jackson Jr. is indisputably his father's son. The color of his skin is irrelevant. I suspect we'd be having the same argument if we were talking about one of Blagojevich's kids, should any of them decide to go into politics. JJJ is, perhaps unfairly, suffering for the (perceived) sins of his father.

        And no, his dad's involvement in the civil rights movement is not the issue. It's what he's done since the civil rights movement that's the problem.

        I also voted for Burris and Quinn, BTW. So on that criterion, we're even.

        •  How about you explain what you mean by (0+ / 0-)

          Jesse Jackson Jr. is indisputably his father's son.

          before we continue this conversation.  Something other than physiognomy?

          By the way, there still is a civil rights movement and Jackson is still in it.  There is no "since the civil rights movement."

          I await your assessment of the horrors of the senior Jesse Jackson that tarnish him for downstaters apart from his career as a racial activist.

  •  Sources (14+ / 0-)

    According to the Chicago Tribune report, this comes from "Blagojevich spokesman Lucio Guerrero" and perhaps unnamed others.  It's clear from the report that Reid's office refused to name any names that he discussed. I'm not sure how reliable Blagojevich's spokesman's description of the conversation is likely to be, given Blagojevich's shaky relationship to the truth.

    In particular, it seems likely that Reid talked about a lot more people than just those three.  It seems very likely that Blagojevich has had his spokesman focus on these three people for the express purpose of trying to inject race questions into what should really be questions about the propriety of the governor's actions.

    It says something for Blagojevich's political acumen that this tactic finds some traction.  It doesn't say much for the acumen of those who give it traction, however.

  •  Duckworth? Give me a break. (10+ / 0-)

    I like her and all, but I get oh so tired of the feel-good 'wounded female Iraqi vet' PR speil. She really has no qualifications either. As an IL resident, I saw this same shit play out when the DCCC etc banked on her congressional run for PR, yet left other better Dem candidates in the state to hang. She lost. Harry can get lost too.

    "Its a grave digger's song, Praising God and State. So the Nation can live, So we all can remain as cattle. They demand a sacrifice..." -Flipper

    by Skid on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:38:52 PM PST

  •  Reid pissed me off here; but technically he had a (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cwholcomb, askew, justmy2, Elise, marzook, Micheline

    Point: I think it was fairly clear that Jesse Jackson Jr's biggest problem has always been his family; which is why he wanted an appointment to show his stuff and have an easier time running.

    I do think that Reid forgot the fact that Obama has huge coattails that can pull in voters here; and as an AA voter this hurt. There is this image that AA politicos have to be doubly good to get a fair shake and a chance. Frankly, Duckworth showed how stupid he was IMO. She couldn't pull off a democratic leaning seat in a democratic year. Jesse's twice the campaigner and has proven himself. Plus, Obama would be in office.

    Reid miscalculated, but I can't fault him for making the calculations.

  •  Come on, I think Jones, Davis and Jackson (7+ / 0-)

    all have electability issues, that have nothing to do with the race. Lisa Madigan, at least, has served two terms as Attorney General, and is pretty popular, from what I understand.

    •  Don't you think Reid also has electability issue? (4+ / 0-)
      •  Yes, by all means let's help Republicans (8+ / 0-)

        beat our Majority Leader in a state where very few Democrats can win. Brilliant plan. One more Republican is always more helpful, isn't it?

        •  Elise, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Elise, Phil S 33, kyeo

          he is not a good majority leader and I am not carrying any water here for Harry Reid, putting his damn nose in Illinois politics and it is coming out as a stink bomb.  How do you think the AA community feel about this?  Hell, Illinoisans feel about this?  Many don't know Reid from Adam's Hellcat.  He made a bad move here and played into Bobby Rush's hands.  I don't want Reid to lose a senate seat, but if there is someone damn BETTER than he in the primaries, I will be sending he/she a check, not Reid.

          •  I think he's a terrible majority leader. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            askew, oysterface

            I can't stand him. But I'd prefer to see a Democrat in his seat and I don't see any other Dem able to win it at the moment and I don't see anyone running in a primary against him - at least not anyone who could come close to winning. Like Rockefeller, we're stuck with Reid until he decides to give up his seat.

            As for this comment - I think this is inflated bullshit. I don't think Reid meant anything at all racist by this comment.

            Let's look at the facts here - Jackson Jr. cannot win statewide because of his father. Some of that is due to downstate racism, but that's a fact and it isn't going away because we want it to. Emil Jones is Blago's buddy and he's blamed (statewide) for state government failures to act on several important issues. He could never win. Danny Davis could have been able to win statewide election until he made his comments the other day - which would be seen as highly inappropriate by most one "owns" the Senate seat. He shouldn't have said what he said. If he hadn't said that then he would have been able to win statewide election by working hard, but he's older.

            Why not elect someone young? Someone who can hold the seat for a little while and maybe move up in the future? Like Dan Seals...or Madigan...or Giannoulias.

            •  He's a replay of Daschle. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ChesCo Dem, icebergslim

              He really ought ot be majority leader because he's so vulnerable.   Daschle had to lick Bush's boots for too many years because he was always so close to being personally wiped out in the Dakotas.  He's not the best person for the job if he's that close to defeat.

              "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

              by Salo on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:11:22 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Again, here we go. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              I thought that way about JJJ at first, but I don't now, not after this stink fest has festered.

              Forget Dan Seals.  Replace one AA because the establishment likes him and he is ok with them, over Burris who has impeccable credentials and is being slimed because he said yes?  He has a valid case legally and will probably win, seat him.

              Forget Madigan.  Ms. Grandstander for trying to take Blago out and knew she could not on those weak statutes.  UNIMPRESSED.

              I am still out on Giannoulias, but it does not matter.  Reid played RIGHT INTO Rush's hands when he threw down the race card.  It is in black and white and the man is possibly on tape making these statements.  Forget it.  The seat is stunk.  Meaning an AA probably will be assigned and the longer this is drawn out the worse it is for this seat and a Republican can win in 2010 or if miraculously we have a special election.

              Reid of all pols, KNEW Blago was a crook and a stink bomb and he is not savvy enough not to get his shit caught on tape?

              Please.  I am sick of the lot of them.

              •  But Reid made this comment (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                askew, Micheline

                long before the Burris appointment. Long before Rush's comments.

                Reid said this on the phone to Blago prior to his arrest. Which means - this was just political positioning and a discussion of who could win elected office statewide.

                We have to stand back and look at the timing. Reid didn't come out and play into their hands...Blago (or someone helping Burris) planted this story to make it seem like Reid is a racist. Sirota and Kos decided to take up their cause - leading me to wonder, exactly WHO did this? Who is responsible for planting this bullshit story that is purely meant to do a few things...

                1. Damage Reid.
                1. Take the discussion away from Blago and Burris and put it on race instead.
                1. Prevent Democrats from getting a Senator in place for a long period of time.

                Sounds to me like that's something Republicans would benefit from. I think this story is a bullshit plant and I think Sirota and Kos are showing their idiocy by getting played.

                Now, that doesn't change that this causes trouble for the Senate seat, but jeez...we don't have to stir the pot anymore. We can be rational thinking adults and question specious allegations.

                What ELSE did Reid say in this conversation? Who did he support and how did he support them? What were his arguments for making those choices? We don't know the answers to those questions. Sirota and Kos chose to jump to conclusions and then they spread it all over the netroots. That discredits them and us and it harms Reid and Democrats in Illinois. Again, who benefits? Republicans.

                •  And with Reid dippin' in IL (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  CocoaLove, justmy2

                  business and Blago knowing this, he just put his business out on the street.  C'mon Elise Chi-Town politics is all about theatrics.  Bobby Rush said those things for a reason.  It had the media buzzing and now personal conversations were dropped to the media, with insinuation that Reid is on tape.

                  Blago has been the smartest politician in all of this.  He was the only one who lawyered up, knew his governor powers by the law and used them.  Along the way he damaged folks, Reid in particuarly, made the IL Legislature look like jackasses, IL Madigan lost her grandstanding case to the IL Supreme Court, and he has wrecked havoc from Chicago, to Springfield to DC.  No, Blago is the one with the juice, the kind of juice that is missing in the Senate.

                  Now we can say whatever we want, but Reid was used by Blago by what he said.  And he did say what he said.  I have not heard any recanting, and he is going to be careful of this because he JUST MAY BE ON TAPE.

          •  Reid stay out of Ill politics (0+ / 0-)

            Let's elect someone in Nevada with a spine. Blogo is a idiot but does have some guts.

        •  To be honest (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          icebergslim, fflambeau, Jyrinx, kyeo

          Harry is just as bad as a Republican. I'd trade 5 Democratic senators for an actual EFFECTIVE leader.

        •  Ah (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          espresso, CocoaLove, Elise

          in a state where very few Democrats can win

          I'm not going to bash or attack you, just let this myth go about my state.

          Nevada isn't even the Nevada of 2004 anymore. Even the rural counties that used to be blood red are soft towards the GOP now, and the Democrats have big advantages in Clark County and a new and strengthening edge in Reno.

          Democratic electability has nothing to do with why Reid is going nowhere. It's the battlefield.

          It's stacked. Reid has the state party locked up, and the GOP is a mess with no obvious champion who can knock Reid off.

          Nevada's Democrats not being able to win here isn't the issue, its that you can't bump him off because he's pretty much in control of the state Democratic party and the state GOP is a mess saddled with an incompetent Governor who is tainting all the likely candidates to challenge Reid.

          "The past isn't dead. It isn't even past." -William Faulkner

          by LeftHandedMan on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:03:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks. I was thinking it was (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            more an equal mixture of the fact that other Dems couldn't win and that Reid had all the power players on his side, but it sounds like it's much more of the latter than the former. I think that's great news! Reid isn't a young man. He'll retire soon...and maybe before his retirement he'll start to lose that control and the state Dems can actually win a primary against him. I would welcome that. I can't stand Reid.

            •  No problem (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              But I hate to be the one to break this to you... Harry Reid has been grooming his son Rory to be his replacement in the Senate, or a Governor someday, for years.

              Rory is just like his dad. It's scary.

              When Harry goes, his son Rory probably shows up or the GOPer who beats the son in the final.

              The ascendence of the Nevada Democratic party is awesome compared to what it was, but its still somebody's machine.

              Nevada has a long history of machine politics dating back to Senator McCarren. Nobody coming here to challenge Harry Reid is going to get any help, you get behind out-of-staters trying to get rid of Reid and you are finished here in Democratic politics.

              "The past isn't dead. It isn't even past." -William Faulkner

              by LeftHandedMan on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:11:16 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Not really, no (6+ / 0-)
        1. Harry Reid has not a single big name Nevada Republican opponent who is not either a recent election loser like John Porter or connected to the corrupt Governor of our state like his Lt. Governor.
        1. The Nevada State Democratic Party is a Reid machine. Not a single well known in-state Democrat of note will challenge him, or support primarying him. Somebody primarying Reid from the Left had better be ready to face an extremely hostile state party at every step of the way, because the top State powers that be are all bigtime Reid people or they wouldn't be where they are.
        1. The State GOP is in disarray and reeling from John Porters loss, the current Governor's staggering incompetence, a massive budget crisis they helped to create and refuse to fix through anything via education and state services cuts, and now the state is facing having to refund tens of millions of dollars in tax money to corporations due to a court ruling stating that the state double dipped the mining and power industries on state taxes.
        1. The polling showing Reid vulnerable that many RW blogs cited to show Reid was vulnerable didn't really give an accurate picture of Reid's advantages and the GOP's disadvantages going into this race. 2010 is not a race that is going to be won by a no-name Republican, it would take a star, paradoxically unconnected to the state GOP or the current Governor, and they don't have such a creature.

        "The past isn't dead. It isn't even past." -William Faulkner

        by LeftHandedMan on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:53:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  What do you know about her dad? (0+ / 0-)

      If you know nothing, I'm just going to ignore this comment.

  •  Not to sound opportunistic (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChesCo Dem, jeanjacques, kyeo

    but could this be a way to replace Reid with someone else as majority leader?

    The weak in courage is strong in cunning-William Blake

    by beltane on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:39:39 PM PST

  •  Hmmm, (10+ / 0-)

    call me naive, but I look forward to the day when rejection of potential candidates isn't viewed through a racial lens -- by anyone.  

    I prefer to think that Reid is just performing the typical dickhead politico interference by pushing his imagined weight around and pressuring another dickhead to appoint either someone who just lost an election or someone who has serious political connections.  Just my two cents.

  •  Headline (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Why does it say "allegedly" in here where we Kossacks go, but NOT have that word where many passersby are sure to go?

  •  Kos - stop taking your talking points (8+ / 0-)

    from David Sirota. Seriously. You are doing yourself a huge disservice. Find a new BFF to get talking points from. One that is occasionally right.

  •  I'm glad the title uses "allegedly" because the (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alkatt, WIds, Scarce, Elise

    charge is bogus.

  •  Geez, it is becoming rumor (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alkatt, oysterface, WIds, Elise

    central around here. Allegedly someone said something to someone else and it was confirmed by another one to be interpreted by everyone. WTF. Sad

    You don't make peace with friends. You make it with very unsavory enemies.

    by Its any one guess on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:43:53 PM PST

    •  Fortunately for all...(except Reid)... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CryptoPolitico, kyeo

      There will be tapes!

      This is no more a rumor than the charges made against Blago.  It's all on the wiretaps, you know.

      And, in fact, spokespeople for Reid have confirmed that Reid pushed against Jackson & Davis & Jones.  It's the statements from Reid's people from whence comes the "electable" explanation.  Check out MTP tomorrow.  I don't see anyway  Gregory can avoid asking the questions and I doubt Harry will deny the factual allegations (since he knows....there are tapes).

      •  So what? That doesn't mean he pushed against (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        them because they're AA. Hell, I live in IL and I wouldn't want Emil or Jackson...for reasons I'll not elaborate upon here. As for Davis, whatever. But the title says allegedly against AA's and that, to me, is bull. Electable, who knows. I guess I'm supposed to think it would be all about being AA. I mean it couldn't possible be their politics and behavior now could it? Gah.

        You don't make peace with friends. You make it with very unsavory enemies.

        by Its any one guess on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:57:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The charge was that this was a "rumor" (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          justmy2, Adept2u, Escamillo

          The title of this diary is factually correct:

          Reid allegedly opposed African American appointees

          It doesn't say Reid opposed candidates because they are African American.  It says he (allegedly) opposed African American appointees.  And he did.

          It could be because of their race, it could be for other reasons.  The diary doesn't say.  The "facts", so far as we know them, don't say.

          OTOH, being as everyone is ready to convict and impale Blago on the same kind of "evidence" (because "everybody knows" or "everybody says" or based on tapes Fitzgerald says he has--have you heard them?  I haven't), and being as everyone is ready to boot Burris just because he showed the "poor judgement" (according to the same "everybody," I guess) in accepting a perfectly legal appointment to a vacant Senate seat, I think speculation on Harry's motives is fair.  Face it, there's an awful lot of smoke coming out of Harry's teepee.  The man gave a standing ovation to a convicted felon and never made a move on criminals serving in the Senate, all of whom just happen to be white.  And everyone he doesn't want in the Senate just happens to be African American.  My, my.  What a cowinkydink.

          As I say, we have tapes (allegedly).  Let's see what they tell us, shall we?  Maybe Blago didn't do anything illegal.  Or maybe he did.  Maybe Harry's on the up-and-up.  Or maybe he dropped an "N"-word or two.  You don't know and I don't know.  About either case.  

          But this story isn't a "rumor."

          •  whatever (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            there's enough real BS going on that I don't have time for more rank speculation about what Reid may have allegedly said.

            As far as Blago he's been an ass since first elected here. IF all Fitz had was the Senate seat selling tapes I doubt Blago would have been arrested. Since I have a vested interest being an IL citizen I'll wait for a preliminary hearing or Grand jury to see if he's indicted. Regardless, he's a shameless, egotistic weasel. As far as Burris, he's an opportunist who 2 weeks prior to his acceptance was hammering Blago on tv. Blah.

            You don't make peace with friends. You make it with very unsavory enemies.

            by Its any one guess on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:40:39 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Ugh....... (8+ / 0-)

    Just ugh on this frontpage story.

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:45:05 PM PST

  •  Also, wtf at the headline (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alkatt, oysterface, WIds, Elise, PalGirl2008

    Am I really on a DEMOCRATIC website?

  •  I don't see a racial issue here (6+ / 0-)

    While I'm no fan of Reid's I think you're jumping to a conclusion without any evidence.  I'm also hoping that you're not implying Reid's preference for a woman appointee indicates racism.  

    There's an innate tendency on the part of even the elite to idolize men who are making a lot of money, and assume that they know what they're doing. PK

    by Betty Pinson on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:46:52 PM PST

    •  oh boy--women vs. blacks again (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      look, if Reid thinks all the black appointees are unelectable, doesn't that tell you something?  I don't think Reid's a racist, but I do think he thinks African-Americans have a harder time winning elections to the Senate.  I think he's a spineless idiot.

      There are a lot more women than African-americans in the Senate, btw.

  •  looks like Kos is working on an exit (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alkatt, oysterface, Lying eyes


    from the Democratic party.

    "Flying is simple. You just throw yourself at the ground and miss." ~Douglas Adams

    by LaFeminista on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:47:07 PM PST

  •  once you are in the senate (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise, LaFeminista, kyeo

    you get name recognition and start using your franking privleges to mail to people in your state non stop your electablity sure does increase.

  •  Racist Reid must step down as leader! (8+ / 0-)

    Not that I actually think he is a racist, but I could get behind an unruly mob demanding he step down as leader, for whatever reason.

    (-7.38,-2.51) 76% of dKos readers think I'm a secret wing-nut operative!

    by Gustavo on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:48:40 PM PST

  •  the current diary (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oysterface, WIds, LiberalVirginian, Elise, kyeo

    reminds me a lot of this one.

    Sadly, this isn't the first time unsubstantiated accusations have been flung around by the founder of the site on the front page.

  •  Kos, you should no better (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    justmy2, kyeo

    than to try to head off this bleeping lynch-mob.

    Harry Reid is a Mormon and therefore unelectable
    (in Illinois...)
    Screw that shit!

  •  Jackson Jr. is electable and very well qualified. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    icebergslim, Adept2u, kyeo

    If this story is true, I think Reid lost his mind.  Remember that Obama was NOT electable until Nov.4 last year. Everyone is electable and should be given a chance. By the way, there is always a primary where you can filter "unelectable" candidates.

    •  He WAS electable until his supporters held a fund (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, Elise, icebergslim, Halsted

      -raiser for Blago 3 days before Fitzgerald filed his criminal complaint.

      Jackson will now have to be content with his Congressional seat b/c he'll never be able to win another office. I am deeply disappointed by this b/c I was a big "Jr." (as it says on his campaign buttons) supporter.

      Jesse was an early strong backer of Howard Dean's. He gave us a great pep talk in Davenport the weekend before the caucuses.

      Sadly, Jesse's getting mixed up in this may also cripple the political career of his very talented wife Sandi.

      Perhaps what Gov. Quinn should do after Blago is impeached and convicted is reward Danny Davis for turning down Blago by giving him the appointment.

      "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

      by Jim in Chicago on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:17:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  JJ Jr has a BIG BIG problem (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, Elise

      And his name is JJ Sr.

      The "Jackson" brand is pretty toxic in 95% of Illinois.  The guy pulls a race-bait stunt every few years somewhere in Illinois.  Maybe its picketing a school for punishing a black kid for beating up some white kid, or maybe it's just blackmailing Budweiser into giving his kids distribution rights to Chicago or whatever.  But, most people here, even a lot of Democrats, really really don't want to give any more power to that corrupt group.

  •  If Reid thinks (4+ / 0-)

    that all these guys are "unelectable" how much do you want to bet he thought the same about Obama and was secretly pulling for Hillary?

    John McCain wants to stay in Iraq for a century.

    by jkfp2004 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:57:35 PM PST

  •  Kos what does this have to do with race (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oysterface, Elise

    Why the DRUDGE headline?

    It may be because Reid talked it over with Dick Durbin who knows the state and he probably told him it would be A LOT more difficult to win in 2010 with Danny Davis who is old, Emil Jones who is known state wide, and Jesse Jackson Jr who is controversial.

    I think you are being TOO DAMN SIMPLISTIC.

    "Because we won...we have to win." Obama - 6/6/08. WELL WE DID IT!!! 11/4/08

    by Drdemocrat on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:57:46 PM PST

    •  Sure, it's just a coinkydink that the "unelect- (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      thereisnospoon, Elise

      able" candidates are all Black and all the "electable" ones (according to Reid) are all White.

      If you believe that, I have a mortgage backed security I'd like to sell you....

      I find it especially amusing that Tammy Duckworth, the most wooden political speaker I have ever heard, is on Reid's "electable" list.

      "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

      by Jim in Chicago on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:20:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Duckworth (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        You can't attack Duckworth like you could with the others.  There is a truckload of stuff they can fling at those other 3.  They wouldn't win a state wide election.

        •  Duckworth has not demonstrated campaigning skills (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          She is an unbelievably wooden speaker (find her speech at the Dem convention and try to stay awake through its few minutes) and was not energetic about getting out to meet people in the 6th District (at least not the insane way someone running for office NEEDS to be) when she ran for Congress.

          "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

          by Jim in Chicago on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 04:42:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Screw this shit............... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Support Civil Liberty, My Spin

    Harry Reid let the Republicans dismantle the Constitution without saying: Boo! and now he has the unmitigated gall to get a burr up his ass about a senatorial appointment that is inarguably 100% legal.

    WTF, Harry?

    "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

    by bobdevo on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 01:57:59 PM PST

    •  "Let the GOP dismantle"? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I'd say most of the Senate Dems have not let them dismantle the Constitution, but have been there helping them dismatle it from the start! How many voted for the war? How many voted for re-funding? How many voted for FISA? How many knew of the torture? How many voted for unconstitutional transfer of authority to Treasury in the bailout bill?  

      I'd say dismantling the Constitution is a bipartisan issue that both parties can reach across the aisle on!

  •  So Reid (0+ / 0-)

    thinks a few people are unelectable and someone else noticed their race and is making racist complaints?

    Hmm. This sort of reminds me of this picture of chickens I saw the other day.

    "ENOUGH!" - President-Elect Barack Obama

    by indiemcemopants on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:00:22 PM PST

  •  Good Time to Get Rid of Reid. - n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  Reid is Being an Ass (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    He supposedly is worrying about 2010, but seems to be oblivious to 2009, when he needs every Dem. vote he can get.  If he is worried about who runs in 2010 being electable, it seems to me that is what Primaries are for.  Reid's actions could mean that we don't have any Junior Senator from Illinois until 2010.

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:07:22 PM PST

  •  Maybe Reid thought Duckworth was part-Black (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I just can't believe he'd eliminate the major Black candidates without covering himself in the conversation.  He had to know that the conversation was probably being recorded...and even if the Feds weren't taping him, he just handed Blago a golden opportunity to look really good in this instance.

    If he thought she was black, then maybe this part would have made some sense...otherwise, it just shows that he's clueless politically and strategically, and he can't be trusted with his current post.

    •  As I recall, Kos used to be high on Duckworth... (0+ / 0-)

      clearly preferring her to Christine Cegelis despite the fact that Christine was a progressive and Duckworth was being sponsored by the Chicago and Beltway machines in 2006 (or was it because of this fact that Kos supported Tammy?).

      Should the fact that the progressives in this case are Black change Kos's feelings?

      "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

      by Jim in Chicago on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:24:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I can't divine Kos's feelings from his post... (0+ / 0-)

        In point of fact, it is entirely devoid of editorializing. He just presented some facts to have us hash things out.

        On the other hand--your feelings in this matter are quite clear.

        Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees. ~ J. Willard Marriott

        by DouglasFir on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 06:50:30 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I'm still pissed that Kos abandoned (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          a true progressive and former Kossack for the Chicago Machine's choice in that primary.

          "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

          by Jim in Chicago on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 10:44:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Unfortunately, I am not familiar with... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jim in Chicago

            the details of that particular contest or Kos's comments on it. It would appear that you have some strong opinions on Chicago politics and perhaps some insight to go along with them, so I will be looking for your continued comments on the subject in the future.It is sure to be of special interest with a Chicagoan in the presidency. I will confess to a certain bafflement at times over some of Kos' political stances. I have no way of knowing, but it would seem that he enjoys stirring up controversy at times. And that is certainly his right! I'm sure any other founder of a web enterprise such as this would do the same.

            Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees. ~ J. Willard Marriott

            by DouglasFir on Sun Jan 04, 2009 at 12:21:49 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I wish he had openly stirred the pot in this case (0+ / 0-)

              Instead he professed to be personally neutral while running pro-Duckworth stories and working behind the scenes to quash a progressive-blog movement in favor of Cegelis at the time. (I know some people Kos corresponded with during this process.)

              For more on our local politics from a progressive point of view, this is a good blog to check:

              "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

              by Jim in Chicago on Sun Jan 04, 2009 at 05:41:22 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  You make some very good points here about Reid. (0+ / 0-)

      I believe you are on to something when you question his competence (and I base this on what he has done at his post--essentially nothing) ..but, to say that he may have thought Duckworth was black is a bridge of fantasy built way too far! Do a little self-examination when you find yourself twisted up like a pretzel trying to defend the actions of others. It is usually a pretty good indicator that you are really reaching in trying to cover someone or something.

      To everyone except someone who is quite literally blind, Ms Duckworth is most obviously Asian, not black!

      Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees. ~ J. Willard Marriott

      by DouglasFir on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 07:03:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  read the post (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I'm not defending Reid.  I've attacked him in this and other posts.  I think he's incompetent and should be removed as Majority Leader.  And in any case, he may not even be re-elected to his Senate seat, so I don't understand why we're following him.

        Durbin for Majority Leader!

        •  Thanks for your reply and I apologize if... (0+ / 0-)

          I missed your drift. I quite agree with you! IMHO, Reid has utterly failed to distinguish himself in any way as Majority Leader. He (and Pelosi!) have led a cadre of spineless Dems! I haven't really looked into Durbin as a replacement, but if I recall correctly he proved to be quite an asset to Obama during the campaign. I think things in the Senate are about due for a shake up and I think our incoming president is just the one to orchestrate it. I get the impression he is not going to brook a repeat of the insipid and lackadaisical performance of last year's session.

          Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees. ~ J. Willard Marriott

          by DouglasFir on Sun Jan 04, 2009 at 12:31:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Well, this finally got to the FP (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  This looks like a Blago leak to the SunTimes (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, Elise, carllaw, Micheline

    to try to continue to play the race card and to try to imply that Harry Reid who is trying to block Burris from being seated is a racist.

    Why Kos is playing along with this Drudge headline is besides me.

    "Because we won...we have to win." Obama - 6/6/08. WELL WE DID IT!!! 11/4/08

    by Drdemocrat on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:11:58 PM PST

  •  Harry Reid: Thorn in the side (0+ / 0-)

    I'd love to see him voted out of the Senate when he runs again. If he runs into a term limit, a Progressive Democrat MUST take his seat.

    Conservatives are close-minded, shallow, superficial people that live in a fantasy world where everything is black and white and there are NO shades of gray.

    by Brad007 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:28:48 PM PST

  •  He thinks a republican will win the illinois (0+ / 0-)

    senate? Can I get this guy's phone number? I have a series of lucrative investments I'd like to sell him.

    Illinois is one of the states that has turned the tide, and won't be electing a republican for years.

    Visit Northern Word, a writing, photo and travel blog.

    by decembersue on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:29:00 PM PST

  •  oh christ on a broomstick (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Valahan, icebergslim
    can't we just get rid of Reid already?
  •  My two cents (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If the source for this claim about Reid is Blago's office, I would say the credibility is about zero.  The guy has already established he has only a vague association with the truth.

    I don't claim to know Illinois politics well enough to say whether Reid is showing some sort of bias or whether those three are in fact less electable than the others.  For myself, I don't think the seat must be filled by an African-American, but I would find it laughable if it were claimed there are no viable black candidates in Illinois.

    On the larger issue of seating Burris (or that matter any Blago appointee), let's be fair to Reid and acknowledge he's in a lose-lose situation.  If the caucus seated the appointee without a complaint, Dems would be accused of condoning corruption.  Attempting to block almost any appointment would be spun as elitism one way or the other.  (Imagine if you will that Blago had appointed Duckworth.  By now, Reid and the Dems would be painted as anti-woman, anti-Asian, anti-disabled, and anti-veteran.)

    Actually succeeding in blocking the appointment under this fact pattern might be a dangerous precedent.  Blago hasn't even been indicted yet, and there's that whole pesky "innocent until proven guilty" concept.  With this precedent, and the Repugs' known habit for politicizing the Justice Department, does anyone doubt for a moment that highly-publicized "investigations" of blue-state governors would start the minute it looked like a Democratic senator was dying?  

  •  I don't care WHO it is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But whoever is the main Dem opponent for Reid in the primary is who I am going for. I can't stand that mothafucka.

  •  Kos must think African-American = unelectable (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise, snkscore

    He's the only one making that claim here.  Sure, he's implying that that thought process is behind what Harry Reid allegedly did.

    But to be absolutely clear, Kos is the one implying that Jackson Jr., Davis and Jones are thought of as unelectable because they are African-American.

    That comes really, really close to being racist.

    "'Shit' is the tofu of cursing" --David Sedaris

    by LiberalVirginian on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 02:50:24 PM PST

  •  Who cares? Seat Burris (0+ / 0-)
    We heard a snippet of one side of a conversation. Of that snippet, I agree-for various reasons. That said, the point is moot.... ....As, the Governor is allowed, G-Rod made a (bad) choice. Other names do not matter at this point. I think there's a lot of conflicts between Burris' lobbying, state contracts, donations, client donations to Blago. But the Gov had the right to pick who he wanted. Burris is over 35 and lives in the state. Burris then became an accomplice by accepting the offer. Any appointee from Blags would have created a huge backlash. Bobby Rush made a sad choice of tactics-but one that could be effective in terms of this round-but one that will likely backfire in 2012. Especially, as you consider that Rush supported Blair Hull over Barack Obama. I don't see a lot of gnashing of teeth about AA candidates in the elections of the other 99 seats of the Senate. Burris, at best, is not going to win re-election (and would probably inspire a number of votes for the GOP. The U.S. Senate correctly put a firewall between them and Blago's impending indicment. But they now need to think of the end game and what will happen after the rules comm. If the answer is seat Burris-then do it now! Their initial posture has now become a tinderbox (re: future elections, race, and Franken). In the end Blago-for whatever reason-played the Senate-and Burris. Whatever? G-Rod made the pick, so seat the man. Our state legislatures failed-greatly and Blago needs to be shown the door
  •  You are getting there kos.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...we still are awaiting your take....

    Do not become the sycophants we have despised for 8 years.

    by justmy2 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:00:48 PM PST

  •  so Kos and others took a story with un named (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LiberalVirginian, Elise, snkscore

    sources, and made as proof that Reid is a racist

    nice going fellas
    if I wanted to read rumors and BS , I would have gone to red state
    shame on Kos. and the insufferable Sirota for doing what the crazy GOP'rs have been doing for years

    This year we can declare our independence...Barack Obama

    by PalGirl2008 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:00:54 PM PST

  •  Haul Reid in to Fitzgeralds office (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I need to know what he said on those tapes before he is seated in the Senate.

    There could be an EEOC complaint that needs to be made.  How will we know without investigating?  Let's use the same standard he is using for Burris.

    Beyond my snark...what an idiotic move to string this out?  I can't believe he, Obama and Durbin couldn't see the rat hole this was before that started making declarations.

    Do not become the sycophants we have despised for 8 years.

    by justmy2 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 03:03:46 PM PST

  •  remind me of something Reid's done right (0+ / 0-)

    cuz I forget.

  •  I have to agree with Reid (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I live in IL, and people like Jessie Jackson Jr would have a hard time getting elected.

    It isn't because we don't like black people, and I don't think that is why Reid urged against them.

    When you are elected in a black neighborhood by pushing mostly race related issues, crying foul every chance you get against white people, in order to gain more support in your district, it tends to have a negative effect on all those white people who actually might consider voting for you.

    Most people view the likes of JJ Jr (and father) as being just as corrupt as Blago.  So, I would urge we get someone else who doesn't shake down businesses.

  •  Harry reid is cynical not racist (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Harry reid is what people where I'm fromwould call soft. Harry reid is loking at the reality of the situation . And that reality is There have only been 5 african americans named to the senate in a 150 years. And in america if you are black to be a US senator you have to be one of the best politicians ever.Now some might feel I am exagerating but I think reid saying this shows how cynical he is about the electorate of illinois and frankly I think he should be  P.s. I'm from the chi

    men lie women lie numbers dont Jay-Z

    by Changeweseek on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 04:06:42 PM PST

  •  FOLKS WAKE UP. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    justmy2, Elise, Changeweseek

    This was all orchestrated and planned by Blago and his attorneys.

    First, Reid is on some of those tapes.  We don't know what he says, but he is on the tapes.  Blago have the conversation, people were probably there when all this went down.  So, Reid is not going to say the did not have any conversation with Blago.  And though the Sun-Times indicates no race thing, the story itself is inflammatory and unflattering to Reid, period.  Again, he never should have gotten involved.

    Second, the Bobby Rush bustin in the presser and throwing out the race card was orchestrated.  He knows what Reid said and challenged him by stating the seat should be seated with an AA.

    Third, now we find "high Dem Officials" touting Dan Seals name all of a sudden.  Anticipating some blow back.  Seals ran for IL-10 seat and lost twice here.  Don't expect much movement here, nothing can be done if it can, until Blago is gone and who knows when that will be.

    Fourth, since the Sun-Times hit, folks are steaming.  Reid played right into Blago's hand, Chicago style.  He allowed himself to be possibly taped, he made his point in who he wanted appointed to this seat and he is just as bad as everyone else in this saga.

    Lastly, Now Reid is meeting with Burris in DC, next week.  I think maybe folks are getting information from the wind that this is not looking good, nor going good and the longer this is strung out, NOT GOOD and it will continue to be a media frenzy.

    Burris should commit to being a seat warmer, do the two years and out.  He will not be elected in the primaries, I highly doubt it.  Burris should come out publicly with this, with the Democratic Senate at his side and put this to rest.


    Will Blago continue, yes, but he will be more reduced to a local story and will get more coverage close to impeachment or indictment.  In other words, this senate seat story is over because in the end, Blago will not be indicted for selling any senate seat, because he did not.

    Fitzy used the media and everyone else to put the sexy selling of the Obama seat out there, scared people who was going to be indicted anyway, and he is building his case now as I speak.  Folks have moved from Blago and are in Fitzy's camp making a deal, guaranteed.

    •  As I said on day one... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      fighting this helps 3 groups...The media and their ratings, Republicans (not to mention Coleman specifically), and Blagojevich's lawyers.

      Funny how Democrats are no where to be found on that list.

      I want to play Harry Reid in poker.  He goes all in with no hand...

      Do not become the sycophants we have despised for 8 years.

      by justmy2 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 04:29:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I totally agree (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        justmy2, icebergslim

        But if we are going to keep it 100 meaning if we are  going to be honest with ourselves all the posters who say race didnt play factor of reid deeming those canidates unaccepatble I think  are being naive or not completely honest with themselves. Does that make reid racist? No, Like I said it speaks what he thinks of the illinois electorate

        men lie women lie numbers dont Jay-Z

        by Changeweseek on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 04:41:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, if this speaks of what Reid thinks... (0+ / 0-)

          of the Illinois electorate than he, you, I or the Illinois electorate (or maybe all of us!) are massively confused right now. Didn't the Illinois electorate just send a black man to Washington to represent them as president of the United States!?

          Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees. ~ J. Willard Marriott

          by DouglasFir on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 06:37:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Looks like Reid is getting ready to back down on (0+ / 0-)

      barring Burris.  Questioned about it on Meet the Press this morning, he would only say it would be difficult for Burris to get the seat.  Asked if he would negotiate, he said that, as an old trial lawyer, he would never say never.

      The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

      by lysias on Sun Jan 04, 2009 at 09:34:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Find me (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    icebergslim, DouglasFir

    The Campaign where jesse Jackson Jr used the race card

    men lie women lie numbers dont Jay-Z

    by Changeweseek on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 04:23:57 PM PST

  •  No surprise here--Reid is a Mormon... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...and anyone who knows the least bit about the doctrine and history of the Mormon church knows about their attitude toward blacks. It is part of their doctrine that blacks are an accursed race, out of favor with God and their black skin constitutes proof of that. Mormons believe that black skin is the infamous "Mark of Cain" mentioned in the Old Testament of the Bible. I have yet to met a Mormon, particularly among those of Reid's generation, who displays any cordiality toward blacks.

    Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees. ~ J. Willard Marriott

    by DouglasFir on Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 06:05:49 PM PST

  •  The same paper that said Emanuel talked to Blago (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    This is the same paper that said Blago talked to Rahm 21 times about the seat. Jesus, why does anybody continue to cite the Sun Times or Politico or any number of other sources that are always wrong?

  •  Failed Chicago mayoral candidates (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    What do Roland Burris, Danny Davis, and William Walls have in common? They are failed candidates for mayor of Chicago. And Jesse Jackson, Jr. circulated petitions, before declining to run in 2007. So these guys, some of whom are fine public servants that I like (I voted for Danny Davis for mayor) cannot get elected mayor of a majority minority city, but they can win statewide? This is still the state that produced Dirksen, Hastert, Michel, John Anderson, Lynn Martin, Jim Edgar, Jim Thompson, Peter Fitzgerald, Phil Crane, and so on. Yes the county where I now live voted for Obama, but the last Dem they supported was Franklin Pierce. And Emil Jones is Blagos political soulmate, and it was fear of him that kept the legislature from bringing impeachment a year ago. The naivete with which people feel qualified to comment on Illinois politics is amazing

  •  Reid is a lot of what's wrong with Dem Party (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    He does not pick his battles well at all. Hell, he runs from any that might make the GOP cry!

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