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Gallup: Global warming skepticism growing in U.S.

A record 41 percent now say news coverage of global warming is exaggerated, while 57 percent say coverage is generally on the mark or underestimated.

A reader of the Mpls Star-Tribune responds:

Its becuse the average joe is wising up.

Noting based on facts. Studies are not facts. And the age difference is that the young are being taught this as a trueth in the schools. Common sense prevails.
posted by MUSKIEDOG

'Studies r not facts?' Is it really better to go with your 'gut instinct' than carefully formulated research with a widely accepted expert consensus?

Sure there's room for a healthy touch of skepticism, but that shouldn't be the basis for outright denial.

Put another way, it's okay to ask another expert's opinion, but if, say 90+% of doctors warned you you're ill, would you still ignore them?  (Wait, obese America does that...)

G.W. Bush dumbed downed this country in so many ways. People value their own 'opinion' of things as much as true expertise.

Sure, question everything...but if you can't find an answer then don't insist on having your voice heard anyways.

http://www.startribune.com/...


Update for the skeptics:

I would gladly discuss climate change with you...and I can thoroughly respect the person who is skeptical AND is actively looking for answers.  There's not a peep of disdain in the 4th poll question, and it was written with a person like you in mind.

It does take courage to go against the grain, but it also takes intelligence and perseverance to refute a widely-held, well-formed expert conclusion. Einstein did it...but are you or the skeptics anywhere near that level?  No disrespect, but are you even a climate scientist or able to judge the credentials of dissenting scientists?  

As to the merits of experts.  In your profession or in observing wise management, how often does the wise manager assert their own judgment over a better-qualified expert? Note I use the world 'wise' to discriminate against the rampant rough-trod manner of most management which doesn't hesitate to use 'gut instinct' to make decisions. Sure, everyone will be right sometimes (even when their decision methods are wrong).  

In this democracy we're all part of the management, and we should not listen to the 1 expert in the meeting that says something we want to hear while ignoring 9 others.  How wise is it to go against experts without a strong basis for doing so?

I'm an inventor, so I certainly believe in bucking the 'widely held assessment of experts'.  However, I only consider my counter-argument (ie invention) successful when I have something tangible (an equation, a product) to offer as bona fide proof.

What follows is the logical construct and conclusion:

Given the extreme imbalance of scientific opinion favoring the modern theory of climate change, and not being able to discern a rational motive for scientific collusion against a contrary truth, the logical conclusion is that climate change exists and will threaten humanity according to climate scientist's models.

Originally posted to BOknows on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 07:30 PM PDT.

Poll

Are you convinced climate change is happening, man-made, and poses a threat?

63%96 votes
21%33 votes
0%1 votes
1%2 votes
13%20 votes

| 152 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Frankly, I'm surprised its not higher (13+ / 0-)

    given the amount of fact-free free press that flat-Earthers and climate change deniers are given, and considering how often the scientific consensus is portrayed as 'evenly split' when its anything but.

    "I didn't vote for it, but I support it." -Heath Shuler on the stimulus bill

    by LeftHandedMan on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 07:34:23 PM PDT

  •  Wow (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    grrr, walkshills, Mark27, Wary, costello7, dotalbon

    90+% of doctors warned you you're ill, would you still ignore them?  (Wait, obese America does that...)

    That was completely uncalled for.

    •  It wasn't a flip comment (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      walkshills, nobody at all, dotalbon

      I don't like ignoring problems.  If you're obese, you're obese.  

      The point is that people are able to ignore something very close to them, so ignoring something as abstract as future climate change effects is not surprising.

      To DailyKos I'm a troll, Naderite, right wing conservative. Fortunately, I like dissent...just shake, stir and relax.

      by BOknows on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 09:26:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Damn... (7+ / 0-)

    ...I don't care if you are the reddest of the red state hicks, you should realize a billion cars a day around the world coupled with millions of factories around the world a day releasing pollution = a fucked up the atmosphere.

    How can that be denied?

    I don't get it.

    It's not like evolution vs. creation where a religious component is at stake.

    It's just dumbed down simple deduction of reality.

    I guess the upside is that around 60% of Americans do believe in global warming.  

    Even better yet, we at least now have a president that believes in global warming.

    "The stimulus package, which I don't support, had better work."-Stephen Colbert

    by wyvern on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 07:49:47 PM PDT

    •  It's like (5+ / 0-)

      putting one's head in a plastic bag and denying that lack of oxygen is being caused by breathing in and out... because there was oxygen in the bag when I first put my head in there.

      /ugh

      Chaos. It's not just a theory.

      by PBnJ on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 08:05:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The same "pundits" who deny evolution (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, walkshills, math4barack

      also deny climate change.  To the Stupids who listen,  it's all intertwined since they understand none of it.

      Their cause, if they had one, is nothing to them now. They hate for hate's sake. (W.H. Auden)

      by dotalbon on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 09:39:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Evolution - a simple theory... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        walkshills

        ...

        E = mc2 is an appealingly simple equation that might seem to explain much, but the math that describes our universe does not stop there.

        Likewise, the popularity of evolution is not because it's widely understood and not scientifically debated, but because it allows people to think they understand.

        Evolution brings perceived order to the chaos and that brings public acceptance.

        I'm not suggesting that evolution does not exist, simply that just like E=mc2 does not fully explain the universe, the math of biology does not stop at measuring finch's beaks.

        In relation to the global climate change debate, it's not surprising that people don't like the idea of change which they can't control and could harm them.  

        What we need to accelerate public action, is not a theory for climate change, but a theory for climate change mitigation. We need the simple math of e=mc2 and the simple reassurance of Darwin's evolution argument.

        To DailyKos I'm a troll, Naderite, right wing conservative. Fortunately, I like dissent...just shake, stir and relax.

        by BOknows on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 10:37:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  evolution & global warming... (0+ / 0-)

          ...are 2 different things.

          One requires a belief in science.

          The other merely requires the realization that they drive cars & run factories in China, Russia, Mexico & other over-populated countries.

          "The stimulus package, which I don't support, had better work."-Stephen Colbert

          by wyvern on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 08:17:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Who were the two people (5+ / 0-)

    who voted the last option? How could you be skeptical given the sheer amount of evidence in favor of man made global warming? Seriously, the question that should be asked here is not "Does global warming exist". The question that should be asked is "What can we do to reverse the course of a dying planet?"

    Barack Obama: A man after my own heart.

    by rexymeteorite on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 07:51:23 PM PDT

  •  It'll Get Even Bigger..... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose, ibonewits, mofembot, dotalbon

    ....if cap-and-trade happens and raises energy prices.  If it's this easy for 41% of Americans to deny global warming when no sacrifice is asked of them, imagine how many will become born-again deniers when energy costs soar.  That 41% will turn to 61%.

  •  we could use a good campaign. the "we" campaign (5+ / 0-)

    has some great ads, but i'm at a loss as to why folks don't believe it.  Maybe some ads that scroll down through all the scientists that agree:

    Yes, Virginia, the climate is changing, daily & drastically, and humans can maybe stop it, if we get very busy, very quickly.

    We'd have to have a massive campaign to get all the scientists to sign it.  

    •  There are only 93 months left (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, polar bear

      on the 100-month "clock" ... at the end of which time, if we have not stopped or significantly slowed down the damage we are doing, it will be irreversible and irreparable.

      Eight more years at best, if the projection is correct. But as the climate scientists  at the Copenhagen conference noted, things have been accelerating at a rate far beyond their worst-case imaginings.

      Book excerpts: nonlynnear; other writings: mofembot.

      by mofembot on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 04:54:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Nonsense. The Conservative Movment Is Dead, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stanjz

    buried, without a leader, impotent, crashing in the polls, and confined to old media nobody watches any more.

    Same as it was under Clinton and earlier during hippie days.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 08:10:09 PM PDT

  •  Because we had a colder 2008 (8+ / 0-)

    Seriously, it's that stupid. 2008 was warmer than any other year in the last century except 2000-2007. It was a slight dip in temperature. And it FELT cold in many places. Therefore, lots of people concluded that global warming wasn't happening.

    Really, people are that dumb.

    If we have another big heat wave, belief in human-caused global warming will go up again.

    •  I've said it before (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, walkshills, math4barack

      While it was snowing in Atlanta, Australia was ablaze.

      These people are truly idiots.

      •  Clueless about what they are "refuting". (0+ / 0-)

        They don't pay attention to what anthropogenic global warming actually says.

        It doesn't say that every city on every day is warmer or any one year, even.

        It speaks to the issue of trends. The planet, generally speaking, is warming.

        I guess the statistical analogy would be that one if there are 90 grape jelly beans and only 10 white, you can't draw any conclusions because one time you actually drew a white one. Not when you drawn 14 or 15 grape ones in a row first.

        Because after you have drawn those 14 or 15, it starts to look like a pattern and that the population is not evenly divided between the two based upon statistical principles.

  •  I'm not convinced the anti-nuke crowd believes (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    walkshills, math4barack

    You want to know what the other big one was?  The UN statement that biofuels are a crime against humanity.

    Look, if we're not going to take this seriously, why bother?  If we're going to shoot down every solution because it isn't perfect, then start evacuating coastlines.

    •  Anti-nuke climate changers are hypocrites (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Norm in Chicago

      France is 87% nuclear. No carbon emissions. Yucca and N Dakota have massive wastelands. It makes sense. To shut the door on nuclear power is idiotic. And for those want to "defend" Yucca from nuke waste, remember that Yucca flats is already lost due to 828 underground nuke tests.

  •  31,000 scientists reject 'global warming' agenda (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BradMajors
    •  WorldNetDaily is not a credible ... (8+ / 0-)

      ...source for anything.

      "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." -Flannery O'Connor

      by Meteor Blades on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 09:20:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because you said or???? (0+ / 0-)
        •  Because it's an ultra-rightwing source ... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RunawayRose, polar bear

          ...that spouts propaganda.

          "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." -Flannery O'Connor

          by Meteor Blades on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 08:33:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  so the left (0+ / 0-)

            Doesn't spout propaganda? Are the leftist angels and only tell the truth? Think about that, is that?  The left and right battle it out, then, they get us to fight with each other. But behind the scenes they hang out, eat dinner and have good times with eachother. Why is it that the people are always so divided while these elites unite under the guise of left and right?

            Has Obama put a stop to the Patriot act? Did take steps to stop the war? No he moved them from one place and put them into another. Guantanamo is still open and sources are saying that the conditions seem to have gotten worse. When Bush was in power, the left was always talking about this. Let's not put it off to the side now. We need to hold our leaders accountable. No free passes for anyone. They will be moving these prisoners to other locations, secret locations.

            Many democrats voted for the patriot act and sold us out. They didn't stop it. Those that didn't vote for it like Kucinich, are great Americans. Many republicans voted for the patriot act too. Those that didn't sell us out are great Americans, like Ron Paul. We haven't had a President that wasn't totally controlled since JFK. I like JFK for many great things that he did for us, he really did try to do what was best, but that got him killed.

            Oh and Bush is a piece of you know what! Many evils were done under his watch. What's worse, is that it was done in our country's name. That breaks my heart. I grew up thinking that we were the best and most moral country in the world and this really make me sad.

            Do you know the Bush family history? His grandfather, Prescott Bush helped Finance the Nazi's. Sound's crazy, I know. But it is just a few clicks on google to get mainstream news that reported on it. Get back to me, I would like to no what you think.

  •  Hey look, it's snowing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    polar bear

    so global warming can't be true.
    That's the argument and many people fall for it.
    The right wing noise machine keeps saying "how can little old man have any affect on this big old world?".
    My answer is put two ways. If 6 Billion living critters can't affect an environment, then let me add 6 billion cockroaches to your home environment and let's see how you feel about that.
    The other is if little things can't make a difference, then add one-half teaspoon of sugar to your 20plus gallon SUV/truck gas tank every time you fill up and see what happens in a relatively short time. Keep that Triple-A card handy.

    "George Bush was a mean crook from Texas. He had no friends and nobody in Washington wanted to be seen with him..." HST

    by vet24 on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 09:06:07 PM PDT

  •  Wake the hell up! (0+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Hidden by:
    RunawayRose

    "The common enemy of humanity is man.
    In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
    with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
    water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
    dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
    changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
    The real enemy then, is humanity itself." - Club of Rome

    http://green-agenda.com/...

  •  Nice to see not everyone on Kos is a Gore lemming (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    costello7, martintacho

    As a former JPL manager, I have been increasingly uncomfortable in progressive circles, having to deal with anthropogenic warming sycophants who repeat discredited "proof"like mantras, and refuse to listen to facts which refute this absurd theory. I don't have any problem with carbon taxes however, because the overall goals are laudable, and America must certainly be dragged kicking and screaming into a green energy future. Jimmy Carter wanted the same goal 33 years ago! Imagine how far we could have come if the cold war and Iran hadn't engulfed his presidency.

    •  This is absolutely incomprehensible (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, math4barack

      What are you arguing?  

      Their cause, if they had one, is nothing to them now. They hate for hate's sake. (W.H. Auden)

      by dotalbon on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 09:40:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  JPL manager... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, walkshills, polar bear

      I would gladly discuss climate change with you...and I can thoroughly respect the person who is skeptical AND is actively looking for answers.  There's not a peep of disdain in the 4th poll question, and it was written with a person like you in mind.

      It does take courage to go against the grain, but it also takes intelligence and perseverance to refute a widely-held, well-formed expert conclusion. Einstein did it...but are you anywhere near that level?  No disrespect, but are you even a climate scientist?  

      As to the merits of experts.  In your management at JPL, how often did you assert your own judgment over a better-qualified engineer or expert?  

      I'm an inventor, so I certainly believe in bucking the 'widely held assessment of experts'.  However, I only consider my counter-argument (ie invention) successful when I have something tangible (an equation, a product) to offer as bona fide proof.

      Given the extreme imbalance of scientific opinion favoring the modern theory of climate change, and not being able to discern a rational motive for scientific collusion against a contrary truth, the logical conclusion is that it exists and will threaten humanity according to climate scientist's models.

      Hope to hear your response.

      To DailyKos I'm a troll, Naderite, right wing conservative. Fortunately, I like dissent...just shake, stir and relax.

      by BOknows on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 09:42:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Rec'd for this: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      walkshills, mofembot

      America must certainly be dragged kicking and screaming into a green energy future. Jimmy Carter wanted the same goal 33 years ago! Imagine how far we could have come if the cold war and Iran hadn't engulfed his presidency.

      I don't, however, see any evidence that the proof of global warming has been discredited.  

      My own views are this:

      1. It's a National Security and jobs issue as much as anything else.
      1. I accept (and believe others need to) that the planet was built to take care of itself.  However, it is very well likely to do so by killing off the infection of mankind, if that is what it's own survival requires.  
    •  What is JPL? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose

      And what are the facts that "refute this absurd theory?"

  •  Here is the problem with your Diary ... (4+ / 0-)

    ...neither the Star Tribune, nor the Gallup Poll (which I wrote about here on two days ago, says what your headline says.

    Only 16% of the people in the Gallup Poll say the effects of global warming will never occur.

    "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." -Flannery O'Connor

    by Meteor Blades on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 09:45:48 PM PDT

    •  True but false...not the whole story (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, polar bear

      As to the startribune, that is their headline verbatim...cut and paste.

      So thanks for great fact checking, but my headline was edited for brevity and I hoped that the larger points would be recognized:

      1.  There's an affinity between those who express skepticism and those who think the press exaggerates (the 41%).  They could be persuaded either way.
      1.  This skepticism is indicative of a trend and it allows people to express their hope/opinion in a proxy manner.  By stating that the press exaggerates, they avoid stating their own skepticism of climate change.  People recognize that not believing in climate change is not publicly acceptable so they modify their responses.
      1.  In stating their belief that climate change is exaggerated, they are denying part of the climate change theory - and climate change scientists would tear their hair out at the notion that climate change is exaggerated.

      All that being said, my headline could have been better written.

      To DailyKos I'm a troll, Naderite, right wing conservative. Fortunately, I like dissent...just shake, stir and relax.

      by BOknows on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 10:06:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think the 16% figure speaks for itself ... (4+ / 0-)

        ...THOSE are the folks who DENY that global warming will have an effect. Based on the poll that accompanied my Diary two nights ago, a combined 8% of the 10,000+ respondents said they thought the media exaggerate "a lot" or "somewhat" about global warming.

        I don't know that I agree with your No. 2; at least, I don't think the figure is as high as 41% in that regard. Maybe 25% or so. But then that shouldn't surprise anybody. Those folks would vote for George Bush if they had the chance again.

        "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." -Flannery O'Connor

        by Meteor Blades on Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 10:23:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  ExxonMobil CEO admits global warming is real (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose, walkshills

    At the same time they fund groups to spread propaganda."On February 13, 2007, ExxonMobil CEO Rex W. Tillerson acknowledged that the planet was warming while carbon dioxide levels were increasing, but in the same speech gave an unqualified defense of the oil industry and predicted that hydrocarbons would dominate the world’s transportation...

    "In 2003, Greenpeace listed Exxon as #1 Climate Criminal. Exxon's alleged crimes include the sabotage of efforts to deal with climate change, the fraudulent manipulation of peer reviewed scientific studies and organizations, misleading and outright lying to the population of the USA, its government officials and the global community in general. It has also been accused of fomenting so called junk science in order to deny climate change and support the views of climate sceptics, among other actions."

    It's near the bottom of their Wiki page.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

  •  I'll take your challange BOknow's (0+ / 0-)

    Where would you like to start?

    •  Do you acknowledge that CO2 is a heat trapping (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Meteor Blades, RunawayRose, mofembot

      gas?

      This was demonstrated and has been known for better than 100 years.

      •   A modest amount of global warming (0+ / 0-)

        should it occur, would be beneficial to the natural world and to human civilization. Temperatures during the Medieval Warm Period (roughly 800 to 1200 AD), which allowed the Vikings to settle presently inhospitable Greenland, were higher than even the worst-case scenario reported by the IPCC. The period from about 5000-3000 BC, known as the "climatic optimum," was even warmer and marked "a time when mankind began to build its first civilizations," observe James Plummer and Frances B. Smith in a study for Consumer Alert. "There is good reason to believe that a warmer climate would have a similar effect on the health and welfare of our own far more advanced and adaptable civilization today."

  •  I am amazed (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose, math4barack, polar bear

    (I shouldn't be, but I am) how little attention U.S. media paid to the Code Red alarm that 2500 highly-qualified climate scientists signed on to at the emergency climate summit meeting in Copenhagen this past week.

    Ostriches, that's what we've become. Stick our heads in the sand and refuse to look... and believe that by some sheer stroke of luck or magic or divine intervention, the catastrophe (of our own making) will pass us by.

    Book excerpts: nonlynnear; other writings: mofembot.

    by mofembot on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 04:49:29 AM PDT

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