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There are a number of diaries on the H1-B program and its impacts. Let's talk about the other side of the coin - what it is like for a US citizen to try to get an overseas job.

I made this comment on this diary:

All I can say is that I can tell you

NO ONE in the EU will even look at hiring a US citizen today. I have made it to the final round in two different positions only to be told "our client says they cannot sponsor any visas in the current job environment".

The job postings in my business space continuously read "Do not apply if you do not CURRENTLY hold working papers for _" and it is the EU and EU allied countries.

Such much for a "global" economy.

The story below:

I have been very active in the green space for the last five years - ethanol, biofuels, solar, wind, electricity demand side management and energy efficiency. I was under consideration for a senior consulting role when I was told the following story.

I was in the final cut for a senior strategy job in the green space. The client had made very nice noises and I had been told by the recruiter that my background fit their requirements perfectly. Time for me to get this email:

Here is where we are. The organization will not move forward with any candidate who requires a Visa. The issue is the UK Government and the Economy across all of Europe. We have pushed this with the client until they gave us a - flat no. This was not the case when we initiated the search, but the climate has changed

I belong to LinkedIn - a professional networking site that posts jobs in community groups.

Here are the conditions on a number of the postings out there:

Energy & renewable energy consultants required for the UK and Europe

Number of excellent opportunities available with leading Energy consultancy. from consultant to principal level.

Sorry but only those with EU working visa should apply

All I am asking for is either treat everyone the same or we adopt the same rules.

Originally posted to tjlord on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 01:12 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tips, flames or (11+ / 0-)

    sponsorship for an EU working visa

    I'll walk 100 miles knocking on doors for my Dem candidate - Anna Lord for Colo HD21 - will you?

    by tjlord on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 01:13:07 PM PDT

    •  amazing (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bluehawk, bablhous

      shutdown the H1B program immediately. thats the only thing I can say.

    •  Nothing new (0+ / 0-)

      "Only candidates who are legally allowed to work in the United Kingdom should apply" was a standard line in job postings even when the economy was good over there in the early and middle part of this decade.

      I think it mostly had to do with a tendency in the UK to fill positions at fairly short notice, a month or so, and getting a visa will take 2-3 months, if they get it at all.

      Of course, if you compare it to the US, the UK would give out 13,000 working visa a year, and they would most likely all be gobbled up (and then some) by Australians and South Africans on ancestral visa.

      Obama 2008: Hope Obama 2012: Confidence

      by Calouste on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 02:37:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Found 46 ads today that said "H1B ONLY" (6+ / 0-)

    Absolutely disgusting! And illegal. Where is Eric Holder on this? We didn't vote out the Bush criminals to permit business as usual.

    •  It is ridiculous - a visa (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DaleA, bablhous

      has become a lottery ticket coming and going. All others please sit at the side of the road and don't disturb the rest of us.

      There is no environmental, social, economic or resource problem that wouldn't be helped by 3 billion fwer people on the planet.

      by tjlord on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 01:26:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The H1B program in the US is (6+ / 0-)

      and I quote:

      A specialty occupation requires theoretical and practical application of a body of specialized knowledge along with at least a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent. For example, architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, medicine and health, education, business specialties, accounting, law, theology, and the arts are specialty occupations.

      Note, there is no requirement for lack of US residents to fill the job. Basically, it is a highly skilled job where the company doesn't want to pay US market rates.

      There is no environmental, social, economic or resource problem that wouldn't be helped by 3 billion fwer people on the planet.

      by tjlord on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 01:31:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Paying Prevailing Rates (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DaleA, tjlord, Calouste

        An employer must certify that the H-1B person is receiving the prevailing wage for the job or he/she cannot qualify as a sponsor.  Sure, folks get around this in many ways but to say that it is for companies that don't want to pay US market rates is oversimplified, since at least until the tipping point is reached, they have to.  The problem has been the DoL not enforcing that particular provision when it reviewed labor certifications filed by employers.  Hopefully things have now changed in Washington.

        •  Prevailing rate may not be Market Rate (5+ / 0-)

          Which is one of the big problems.  The pay in a given area for that position may be high, but the pay for the country (or other area) may be much lower.  The first is called the "market rate", the second is often used as the "prevailing rate."    For example, the "prevailing wage" for New York State may be far below the "market wage" for New York City.  But, I can be perfectly in compliance with the law if I say I'm  paying the prevailing wage for New York, if I'm using the State figure, even though I'm hiring for the City.  

          I think that I have had enough of you telling me how things will be. Today I choose a new way to go ... and it goes through you!

          by Norbrook on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 02:08:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Attys who help fake "can't find a person here'' (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mimi9, shanikka, bablhous, Lashe, WedtoReason
          Check Google video, and see how some law firms teach companies how to word ads and conduct interviews so as to PURPOSELY disqualify American workers, so they are able to hire the H1B's they wanted.
    •  I Agree (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bluehawk, goodasgold, tjlord, Katie71

      That such an advertisement may well be illegal, since even under H-1B the employer is supposed to (theoretically - I know as well as everyone else that the reality is often different) establish that the job cannot be filled with a citizen or lawful US resident because there are no available candidatesw wtih the specialized training and expertise needed to do the work.

      By advertising that no candidates who don't possess an H1B are eligible, they are therefore violating the law that permits an employer to sponsor an H1B in the first place.

      The tricky part is actually getting someone at DoL to care.  Maybe now that the regime has changed, you can (and should) bring the advertisement to its attention.

    •  Report them to the state att. general (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      goodasgold, tjlord, Katie71

      That's illegal, I believe.  CC: the local news outlet and you'll get results.

      I hads a 401K but the economy ated it.

      by nightsweat on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 02:24:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So what? Illegal under WHICH laws? (0+ / 0-)

        The laws for masters or the laws for slaves?
        Seen any justice lately?
        Me neither.

        Obama can't control the DEA!!! So , since the president of the US can't bring the DEA under control, what duty, if any, do I owe to a corrupt and rogue system??
        Seriously, if I am a slave, I owe nothing but resistance and if I am a citizen of a government that has gone rogue, what duty do I owe?

  •  Shut it down (6+ / 0-)

    The working visa system in the US is rife with abuse on all sides. We need a different way forward for sure. Right now, however, we are in a depression and over 5 million jobs have been lost.

    Right now, jobs for Americans is the overwhelming priority. If you are an American looking for work and you approach an employer here, if you are qualified you should have preference over any H1-B applicant.

    I'm not all that ardent of a nationalist, but I cannot tolerate seeing so many Americans out of work, living in tent cities, etc.

    Every day's another chance to stick it to The Man. - dls.

    by The Raven on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 01:32:36 PM PDT

  •  Be prepared to be called a racist xenophobe. (6+ / 0-)

    There is a large contingent of people on this site who swarm these diaries, and who seem to think that it's OK to put qualified Americans out of work while opening more and more jobs to immigrants and/or outsourcing American jobs in the name of some global utopia.

    They won't tell me what they think we should do for a living. We can't go overseas and work, and the government won't pay us for doing nothing, so I guess they just expect our families to take care of us, or for us to just go away and die so they don't have to think about us any more.

    "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

    by Brooke In Seattle on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 01:40:58 PM PDT

    •  I specifically did not address the issues of (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brooke In Seattle, Katie71

      H1B because it is such a charged issue. This was solely to point out that regardless of your thoughts about H1B, the world doesn't feel a need to behave like we do.

      There is no environmental, social, economic or resource problem that wouldn't be helped by 3 billion fwer people on the planet.

      by tjlord on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 01:45:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'll feel sorry for you (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shanikka, tjlord

    If you in return will try to imagine the plight of millions of blue collar American workers who have been put out of a job due to people working in the US without any sort of visa.

    Imagine your wage cut in half overnight and people saying "they're just doing the job you don't want to do".

    As individuals I like foreign workers just fine, I work with them all day long, I speak enough Spanish to hold up my end of the conversation and I don't mind that it is the lingua franca of the work place. I certainly don't blame them for wanting to make more money.

    But until people worry about my plight and the plight of my fellow blue collar American workers I won't shed too many tears over H1 Bs, heck I'd be happy if they let in a bunch of MDs and Economics professors.

    Get a construction job, they start at around $8, can you work?

    •  I am married to a former D candidate at the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bluehawk, Katie71

      state level - I have been to mor3 than one union picnic and heard those stories and listened to the issue. I have also worked in the Inland Emprie in California and understand the issues of that part of the country.

      This is to point out that the system is broken and have to stand in the middle of a one-way street with no ability to turn around is only going to get you run over.

      There is no environmental, social, economic or resource problem that wouldn't be helped by 3 billion fwer people on the planet.

      by tjlord on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 01:47:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Although I am not a blue collar worker, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mimi9, Bluehawk, tjlord

      my parents weren't, and their parents weren't, I've always been very concerned about sending blue collar work overseas or using illegal workers that are here.  So I'm worried about your plight, I appreciate the workers that came before you who fought for unions.  

      What can I do to help you?  Because we need to support one another or we'll all be screwed.

  •  Movement of labor (4+ / 0-)

    Has always been the one exception to the globalization of trade.  Capital may move freely - labor?  Forget it.

    We ought to have parity between similar economies.  It should be possible for Americans to work in Japan, the EU, or Scandanavia and vice-versa without having to jump through all the ridiculous hoops.

    I hads a 401K but the economy ated it.

    by nightsweat on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 02:23:22 PM PDT

  •  When corporate executive positions are outsourced (5+ / 0-)

    only then will we see some interest in a move towards parity. Think how much less EU and Japanese execs make compared to Americans. Think of the savings!

    Just because something's old doesn't make it good. Just because something's new doesn't make it better.

    by the fan man on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 03:29:46 PM PDT

    •  Ah, but the EU won't outsource senior (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mimi9

      jobs ot US employees who would work for less (don't forget the $ is cheap)

      There is no environmental, social, economic or resource problem that wouldn't be helped by 3 billion fwer people on the planet.

      by tjlord on Fri Apr 03, 2009 at 04:04:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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