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I'm very happy the GOP is in sharp decline.  We're all better for that.  However, in the long run, it is VERY important to have a "loyal" opposition.  I don't think the current GOP is loyal, but that's another matter.

Nate Silver had an interesting post today.

got me thinking.  We NEED a loyal opposition.  History shows that one party rule, even when its liberal, always gets corrupt eventually.  See the PRI party in Mexico.

Nate thinks the GOP has four ways to go:

Maybe you see a pattern there and maybe you don't. But of the roughly four different pathways the Republicans could take in the post-Obama universe -- toward Ron Paulesque libertarianism, toward Sarah Palinesque cultural populism, toward Mike Huckabeesque big-government conservatism, or toward Olympia Snowesque moderation/ good-governmentism -- the libertarian side would seem to have had the best go of things in the First 100 Days. There's More...

I hope the GOP goes the Ron Paul way.  Libertarianism is at least a defensible moral position.  I don't agree with much of it, but it is at least intellectually consistent.  You can be intelligent, decent, moral, and be a libertarian.  The same cannot be said for the Huckabee-Palin model.

The Olympia Snowe model is  a good one also, but is NOT realistic.  The GOP will never go there en masse.  See Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Originally posted to Angelfan on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:22 AM PDT.



Where do you hope the GOP goes?

25%28 votes
1%2 votes
20%22 votes
52%57 votes

| 109 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  // I hope they go the way of the whigs (6+ / 0-)

    "I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law" -Obama

    by heart of a quince on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:31:56 AM PDT

  •  Go the Palin route (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chicago jeff, ohmyheck, stunzeed

    Easier to beat.

    She won't be able to get out from under the "too stupid to ever be President" mantle.

    •  George Bush should have been (0+ / 0-)

      "too stupid to ever be President" but somehow enough people voted for him. Don't think it can't happen again. I'd rather not take chances and keep morons like Bush and Palin out of politics.

      "I'm going to be on you like a numerator on a denominator." -Principal Skinner

      by dufffbeer on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:47:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The two major parties (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eztempo, chicago jeff

    have built structural and institutional safeguards into the system that prevent either of them from ever declining into non-existence, however much a healthy marketplace of political ideas and organizing might relegate one of them to the ashbin of history.  The same system serves absolutely to preclude the supplanting  of either party by any new formation, no matter how relevant and dynamic its ideas and leadership may be.

    In such a closed political system, the cycle of a party becomes clear.  At a point where it has exhausted itself politically and intellectually, it will go into a medium term decline.  However, as the other party  in the system swells its ranks, pathways forward in the dominating party become choked with the ambitious, and the only opportunities for the personal careerist ambitions for advancement of politicians are within the  then-weaker party.  The ambitious will reshape  the out party so that, if not appearing as "all things to all people" it will appear as "enough things to enough people" to return to a status of creible opposition, while waiting for the personal failings of individual leaders in the "in" party to create openings to grab power.

    Conclusion:  when the Republican Party bounces back, it will look like nothing so much as the Democratic Party...and then a few more years down the line, vice versa.

    "When the government becomes a lawbreaker, it invites every man to become a law unto himself." ~ Justice Brandeis

    by ActivistGuy on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:39:52 AM PDT

  •  There Is No Voting Majority for Conservative (4+ / 0-)

    economic policies. There never has been, only at times a desire to switch away from Democrats for various reasons of the moment.

    The present United States was never anticipated by our framers or their Constitution. In their world, the economy was almost entirely identical to the people. It was almost entirely family sized ag and some few microbusinesses.

    That meant that the interests of the economy were almost identical to the interests of the people.

    The structure of the Constitution reflects this unstated premise.

    Today the dominant forces of the economy are giant global corporations for whom the people are a set of expenses and liabilities. The interests of the bulk of the economy are now opposed to the interests of the people.

    The conservative movement threw in with the evolving corporate world back in Lincoln's day, or shortly after his death, and so conservatism as a rule is not just the opposition to liberalism, it's the opposition to We the People.

    This is a very unhealthy situation, at least for our form of government.

    Whatever the right does, it must create a coalition of voters who will vote against the interests of We the People in order to elect any type of conservative party.

    There's no way to have a mainstream conservative party that doesn't support the top end of the economy, and there's no way for one that does this to represent We the People in some honest but different way from the Democrats.

    The right has to fabricate some new fraudulent and propagandistic memes and messages to create another coalition of human voters.

    That essentially welds them to large-scale authoritarian religion. Wherever they go from here, it's got to be with authoritarian religion.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:40:34 AM PDT

  •  The way forward for the GOP? (0+ / 0-)

    Since their m.o. is to shove their heads up their asses, maybe they can keep going until they vanish -- "poof" -- into nothingness.

    Are they could do an about face, to the rear march!, and extricate themselves.  

    The problem is that we've already essentially moderated our party to the extent that there's very little space for "moderate" republicans like Snowe to occupy without becoming too much like us or like conservative republicans for the distinction to appeal to very many people.

    And "very many people" is what you need to be politically viable.

    Republicans are liars, by deed or proxy. There is no such thing as an honest Republican. Just those who do the dirty work and those who don't.

    by chicago jeff on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:40:52 AM PDT

  •  Off a cliff of course. And into a great big fire. (0+ / 0-)

    Malt does more than Milton can to justify God's ways to man. --A. E. Housman

    by Wom Bat on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:44:47 AM PDT

  •  I think the GOP should open a (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Reino, eztempo

    barber shop/fishing tackle/ammo and bait shop on the I-81 near Perch Lake.

    I think they'd excel at that. I really do!

    John Boehner: Bovine Gastroenterology Expert.

    by Bobs Telecaster on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:45:45 AM PDT

  •  Everett Dirksen is an OK model (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Senate Minority Leader during the construction of LBJ's "Great Society," Dirksen is the guy that coined the phrase, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."

    His fiscal conservatism provided a counter to the dominant Democratic majority through the 60s, but in allowing cloture before the enactment of the Civil Rights Act Dirksen acknowledged,

    "Stronger than all the armies is an idea whose time has come.' The time has come for equality of opportunity in sharing of government, in education, and in employment. It must not be stayed or denied."

    I hope the Republicans come up with a national leader that has a similar recognition that now is the time for universal health care in America.

  •  how to get rid of the religious right (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Eventually this country needs two political parties, both with good ideas and capable of running the country, just different. But first I would like to see the Republicans put forward a "pure" Christian conservative as their presidential candidate, and kick their ass. That's what it will take to make the religious right finally shut up.

    "I'm going to be on you like a numerator on a denominator." -Principal Skinner

    by dufffbeer on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:52:25 AM PDT

    •  Please define (0+ / 0-)

      "pure" Christian conservative.  Is there such a thing?  Newt Gingrich? John McCain? Mike Huckabee?  They all call themselves Christian conservatives, doesn't seem to matter.  Jimmy Carter was more "Christian" than McCain, Palin and Ronald Reagan combined.  
      Republicans put forward a "pure" Christian conservative as their presidential candidate in 2008, and he got his ass kicked.

      " They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

      by djbender on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 08:05:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A Tory Party plus Know-Nothings (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dufffbeer, eztempo, rlochow, Boise Grad

    I hope we get TWO parties  out of the GOP: an Olympia Snowe model internationalist socially moderate good government party (Tory) and a combo Palin-Huckabee right wing rump (Know-Nothings).  The Know-Nothings will be strong in the backwoods areas of the South and West and the Tories will compete with the Democrats in the rest of the country. Ron Paul's more respectable followers will become real Libertarians, his weirder hangers-on will be Know-Nothings. The Know-Nothings may gain power briefly every few elections if they can find a nominee who can obscure the more repulsive parts of their agenda (think G.W. Bush and his "compassionate conservatism" in 2000) but they won't last long.  And as their base regions develop the Know-Nothings will eventually die out (we hope).

  •  They have to wait it out (0+ / 0-)

    The fiscal crisis is every bit as large and real to voters today as 9/11 was back at the beginning of Bush's term.  The results of the 2004 election, imho, were just voters putting their trust in "stay the course", letting Bush have a chance to finish what he'd started.  When it turned into an absolute disaster - not just on fighting terrorism, but practically EVERYTHING that government does - voters turned on the GOP, in 2006 and again in 2008.  

    Obama's basically bland message of "hope and change" was absolutely perfect when the nation fell into another crisis, at a time when America had absolutely no faith in the GOP's ability to handle a crisis.  And having decided to trust Obama with this new threat to our nation, I'm pretty certain voters will stick with him through 2012, at least barring any further collapses or other nightmares.

    Now, if Obama's solutions to the economic crisis succeed, the GOP is in deep doo-doo.  It's very hard to argue that we need to stop pursuing approaches that are making the ordinary lives better.  But if Obama fails... well, I dunno.  The GOP might find the leadership to exploit a serious misstep on Obama's part, but I'm not sure that party can HANDLE an actual leader right now.

    If I wanted to call Obama a Nazi, I'd be a teabagger, not a kossack.

    by Orbital Mind Control Lasers on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 07:58:05 AM PDT

  •  Their denial will last (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dufffbeer, southdem

    through 2013. I expect them to be thoroughly shellacked next year, and blame it on a combination of lingering anti-Bush sentiment and Obama charisma. For 2012, they'll continue their rabid ways, as only the most extreme voters will even care about the nominee (see: 1964). I see them losing a couple of red state electoral votes that'll jolt some reality into them (along with losing AZ and MO) - out of a pool such as: GA, SC, KS, ND, MT, KY). At that point a nominee might emerge who can moderate enough on social issues to declare them a lost cause. If that happens, and it's Hillary in 2016, look for some R's and Ind's back to the fold.

  •  There is no way forward for the GOP (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim, southdem

    because its entire philosophy mandates turning the country backwards in time. Its economic philosophy is about returning America to the early Gilded Age, the days of the Robber Barons, when  the whole legal, judicial, and law enforcement apparatus was arrayed against labor and run for the benefit of big business. The GOP's social philosophy is about returning to some imaginary retrogressive theocratic state that is run jointly by demented Covenanters and the corrupt sherriffs and lynch mobs of the Jim Crow South.

    Your ad here could be viewed by up to a dozen people per week!

    by revbludge on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 08:19:18 AM PDT

  •  Start With An Apology (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I don't really care which direction the GOP goes in next, but I hope the next step is an apology. Once they admit that they were wrong to elect Bush, Cheney, Gingrich, and DeLay, and that they were wrong on taxes, Iraq, and regulation, then they will be worth listening to. If they are unwilling to admit that they did great damage to our nation, then they are not worth listening to other than for the comedic value.

    President Obama is reality.

    by Reino on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 08:27:01 AM PDT

  •  maybe if they stop worrying about the futur of (0+ / 0-)

    their party and calm the hell down, they might do better.

    I think the principal reason they're having so much trouble is that they're so focused on themselves, not the American people. Its amazing to see that Glenn Becks inspired histrionic throes, come about only after a searing election loss for the GOP. Not after years of job loss and economic decline (this recession started in 2007).

    "the government is full of vampires!" - Glenn Beck

    by superHappyInDC on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 08:29:51 AM PDT

  •  Their Path? To Oblivion ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim, southdem


    (enticing lighthouse to lure their faithful onto the rocks below).

  •  The successful opposition (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Is sitting out there looking for a home.    It will be a coalition of former Democrats  repelled by that party's  lurch to the left,   former Republicans  repelled by the religious right  and  a large contingent of people  who are sick of the current two party  kleptocracy,  and believe that the US, if properly repaired,  is still an excellent  candidate for  world leadership.  

  •  Personally, I hope (0+ / 0-)

    that the GOP goes off a cliff.

    "It is better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees!" - Emiliano Zapata

    by Murdershewrote on Wed Apr 22, 2009 at 09:37:16 AM PDT

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