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If You Can Remember the 60's, You Weren't There Or I Guess You Had to Be There to Know That War Was Hell.

What we were back then.......The Protest Movement.

A generation defined by the Vietnam War, and over 58,000 dead or missing in action. In Nixon's first campaign he pledged to end the war, which after his election lasted for 5 more long years.

The Causes We Fought....
Bob Dylan, The Answer is Blowing in the Wind
http://www.youtube.com/...

The names of those who died or were listed as missing in the Vietnam War are carved in the black granite memorial, which begins with the inscription: "In honor of the men and women of the Armed Forces of the United States who served in the Vietnam War. The names of those who gave their lives and of those who remain missing are inscribed in the order they were taken from us." Each of the 58,000-plus names on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial are searchable online, and there is a place where you can add photos and personal stories.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/...

If You Can Remember the 60's, You Weren't There.
Arlo Guthrie, When a Soldier Comes Home
http://www.youtube.com/...

Vietnam War Memorial Wall
http://www.youtube.com/...

Creedence Clearwater, I aint No Fortunate One
http://www.youtube.com/...

Bruce Springsteen, We Shall Overcome
http://www.youtube.com/...

Originally posted to allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:28 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  remembering who we were, what we were, back then (28+ / 0-)

    John Lennon, Power To The People

    On this Memorial Weekend,  remembering a war that took so many lives, and a time of remembering who we were, what we were, back then and what we have since lost as a country; our power;  to make our voices heard, to bring about change.

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Thomas Jefferson

    by allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:28:47 AM PDT

  •  It's a strange thing. I know some Vietnam vets (9+ / 0-)

    that tell me that their time in Vietnam was the time of their lives when they felt most alive, and the hell began when they got back to a bizarre suburban neighborhood where everyone was with the program and lived their lives as the living dead.

    After hearing enough of these comments, I did some research and found that vets all the way back to the Civil War felt the same way too when the war was over, and many looked fondly back to their war days as the time they were most alive.

    •  the possiblity of death does make you feel more (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shahryar

      alive, but you can get that feeling from skydiving or whitewater kayaking or a host of other activities that are either benign or actually do some good for the world.

      War is nothing but destruction.

      The occupation of Iraq will not be disrupted. - Chris Hedges 3/2/09

      by dancewater on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:42:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They said it wasn't just the death part, and a (6+ / 0-)

        few said the rarely felt in danger of death.  Many said it was more leaving American culture for a place that was wildly primal and different, and that the sex and drugs were fantastic.  When they got back to the United States, the whole place felt like an artificial and unreal Disneyland.  Some of these guys have some stories of their time in Vietnam, and not just the military and war bullshit.  They speak of rare beauty in the sunset and moonless, starlit nights when you could read under just the light of the stars.  The STARS.  All kinds of weird sound echoes from the geography around them, and weird radio sounds like whales or seals.  Then there is the weird absurd images that are burned into their minds forever – long after they forgot who their first wife was or where they were born.  Images of a horse standing in water, the tail of an airplane in a treetop, weird sounds from the forests.

        •  Yes, that perspective is out there. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Abra Crabcakeya, allenjo

          I think they rarely felt in danger of death, and perhaps they rarely were. And I have to wonder if these are guys who lost many friends in battle. I am reminded of a Vietnam vet who quoted "War is characterized by long periods of boredom, punctuated by brief moments of abject terror." It's an interesting and complicated psychology.

          In any case, they are right about the US and Disneyland, I think.

      •  Cherchez la femme, mon ami (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        happy camper, Free Spirit, statistic

        $2 blowjobs go a long way towards making a situation tolerable ...

        Seriously, you have to consider with whom you are talking. At least 75% of us who went to Viet Nam never heard a gun fired (except outgoing artillery, of course) and were never in danger. For them, life was safer than it would have been at home (and blow-jobs at home were ... rare). 2 members of my high school class were killed in VN; 7 were killed in car accidents by '75.

        Ignorance isn't exactly bliss but some things are better known when they are unknown to start with and pieced together on the way. - WineRev

        by Clem Yeobright on Sun May 24, 2009 at 10:03:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The Disconnect, PTSD, and Neglect of Vets: --the (10+ / 0-)

      worst kept secret of civilization. Everybody knows about it, everybody knows people who've suffered in battle or struggled to readjust back home or has gone under-treated for injuries and stress, every period after war produces libraries full of books about it.

      Right up to the very second when there's a purported threat. And then it's like the cleaning service: like it never even happened.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:45:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wait until these Iraq vets start coming home and (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        allenjo

        shooting up the place.  Many are majorly fucked up because of Bush's endless rotations.  And this was close quarters street fighting - room by room, building by building.  Totally fucks up the human mind.

        •  More likely... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          allenjo, Aquagranny911

          You will find them, not shooting up the place, but holding hand-lettered cardboard signs on street corners and sleeping in alleys and under overpasses. We have created another generation of homeless vets, one which will plague us for the next half a century. Again. Almost like clockwork.

          •  There are so many where I live - I have only to (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Free Spirit, JaxDem, Aquagranny911

            drive 2/3 miles, and on each street corner.

            Seeing these destroyed souls, lives, are this
            "Our Nation's Shame".

            Back when Reagan threw so many of them out of mental hospital.....I have no words that express what I feel about that............What a country that let this happen.

            "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Thomas Jefferson

            by allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 10:32:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Amen allenjo Amen (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              allenjo

              Back when Reagan threw so many of them out of mental hospital.....I have no words that express what I feel about that............What a country that let this happen.

              We can never let that happen again.  Ever.

              As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. -John F. Kennedy

              by JaxDem on Sun May 24, 2009 at 10:45:47 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  The $3 Trillion War- Caring for Veterans (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        happy camper, Aquagranny911

        To understand why the true costs of the war are so much higher than the official estimates, we can start by looking at America’s veterans. No one has suffered more from the administration’s blindness and stinginess. To date, more than 1.6 million American troops have been deployed in the Iraq and Afghanistan operations. More than 4,000 have been killed. More than 65,000 have been wounded or injured, or have contracted a disease. Of the 750,000 troops who have been discharged so far, some 260,000 have been treated at veterans’ medical facilities. Nearly 100,000 have been diagnosed as having mental-health conditions. Another 200,000 have sought counseling and re-adjustment services at walk-in vet centers.

        No adequate preparation was made for casualties on this scale. The Department of Veterans Affairs (V.A.) and other agencies have been overwhelmed—both by the need for immediate medical care and by the demand for disability benefits. Already, a quarter of a million returning veterans have applied for disability benefits. Not surprisingly, many disability claims are complex: the average veteran cites five separate disabling medical conditions. The least fortunate among the veterans have suffered unimaginable horrors: brain trauma, amputations, burns, blindness, and spinal damage. Because a greater number of the injured are surviving today, the relative costs of long-term care will be greater than for any previous war.

        http://www.vanityfair.com/...

        "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Thomas Jefferson

        by allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 10:48:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  So near (8+ / 0-)

    so far away.  Thank you.

    If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

    by marykk on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:34:39 AM PDT

  •  "Who Dies In War?" (8+ / 0-)

    Veterans For Peace Asks "Who Dies In War?"

    May 22, 2009

    Few really think about it, but many more innocent civilians die in war than soldiers. That is the message that Veterans For Peace would like people to think about on Memorial day.

    Veterans For Peace National President Mike Ferner comments, "We have been taught that the purpose of Memorial Day is to remember fallen service members. Veterans For Peace is here to tell the nation that the number of innocent civilians who die in war far outnumbers the combatants. It would be immoral to only remember those who fought and died in war and not pay respect to those who are victims.  In the final analysis, the best way to remember both is to abolish this scourge of humanity."

    Veterans For Peace National Executive Director Michael T. McPhearson stated, "As veterans this day holds special meaning for us. Many of our members have seen their buddies die in battle and we all know that only luck or grace allows us to be here today to remember the dead. We also know our actions are responsible for the enormous lose of life of innocent people simply trying to live their lives, who for no fault of their own were caught in the middle of madness. We are haunted by their deaths and stand in respectful silence to remember them, those of us who did not live to be veterans and those veterans who are no longer with us. We demand our government and all the governments of the world end this human made plague called war. There is a better way."

    Across the nation, veterans, military families and friends will gather this weekend through Monday to remember fallen loved ones, comrades, service members and all lives lost to war. Veterans For Peace will commemorate these women, children and men with vigils and solemn programs. Several chapters will display temporary cemeteries to represent the over 4,985 U.S. fallen and untold numbers of civilians killed in current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Other chapters will lay wreaths and flowers; have speakers and readings; and march in parades.

    See full news advisory here (PDF)

    "The wise man points to the stars and the fool sees only the finger - and discusses it 24/7 on cable and am radio."

    by jimstaro on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:42:25 AM PDT

    •  to help our wounded troops (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joanneleon

      Please go to jimstaro's diary, link below if you can help and send some money......

      "Hey Friends --  Would you give a dollar to someone who risked their life for you?  We are in a big push this weekend to try to get every American to give $1.00 (or better yet $5.25 - to signify the date of Memorial Day) to help our wounded troops. This is what Memorial Day is all about.

      "Yesterday by being on CNN and CNBC to talk about it-- Bob and I raised $21,000 just from people twittering and going to the website to give."............

      http://www.dailykos.com/...
      jimstaro's diary

      "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Thomas Jefferson

      by allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 12:21:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I would like to see a Memorial Wall (5+ / 0-)

    on the National Mall that lists all the names of the Vietnamese dead.  That would give a new perspective to a lot of Americans.

    It is mainly civilians that die and suffer in wars and occupations, not the combatants.

    The occupation of Iraq will not be disrupted. - Chris Hedges 3/2/09

    by dancewater on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:45:04 AM PDT

  •  The government has learned from Vietnam (7+ / 0-)

    Don't motivate the youth to protest.

    They can have all the unjust wars they want, but only if they just don't draft the unwilling.

    The Iraq war protests I've gone to did not have many young people.  Sometimes all the white hair around me made me feel like I was at a senior citizen convention.

    My memories of  Vietnam war protests are of a wild and powerful youthful energy that was powerful enough to stop a war.

    If cats could blog.... they wouldn't.

    by crystal eyes on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:48:39 AM PDT

    •  The Iraq war protests I (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      denise b, crystal eyes, BigAlinWashSt

      marched in before the "invasion" were baby boomers like me and the young, not much in between.

      We are having an economic draft, as someone posted yesterday, our young who cannot find jobs and so they join up.

      Our voices were ringing all over the land back then.
      It was a time of tremendously overwhelming change here.

      "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Thomas Jefferson

      by allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 10:09:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Overstretched with multiple tours (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      allenjo

      of duty and involuntary extensions... eroding the officer corps as well as those lower down with experience... too many who leave and cut short their careers .., a good chunk of people who would otherwise have lifetime careers in the military. The others pushed to the limit and the overall morale? Somehow it that is not working so well. The Willing are being misused and the Unwilling aren't motivated to protest. I think the more twitter and blog and other tools gradually add to the background, the more there will be protests if Iraq drags on past a reasonable pullout date. Sometimes it just takes longer.

      Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie

      by IreGyre on Sun May 24, 2009 at 02:35:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sir! No Sir! (6+ / 0-)

    "The wise man points to the stars and the fool sees only the finger - and discusses it 24/7 on cable and am radio."

    by jimstaro on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:50:43 AM PDT

    •  Hi Jim great to see you here and I hope (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jimstaro

      the contributions are coming in!

      Great video, I loved it!

      "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Thomas Jefferson

      by allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 10:05:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "We truly believe that what stopped that war was (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jimstaro, allenjo

      when the soldiers stopped fighting it"!  Wow.  That doesn't give much hope to this war with an all volunteer setup.

      "Peace cannot be achieved by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

      by BigAlinWashSt on Sun May 24, 2009 at 10:07:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  the last time I heard Blowin in the Wind live (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BigAlinWashSt, polar bear, allenjo

    I was at a friend's house, and her beautiful teenage daughters were playing and singing the song.  What made the occasion special was a little 7 year old named Rusul, was was sitting there watching them.  Rusul probably did not really understand the song, because she is from Iraq and speaks Arabic.

    Rusul lost her right foot to a US missile in 2006.  Her sister lost both legs above the knees.  Her brother, and another neighborhood child, were killed.

    No adults were hurt in this firing of a missile from a US gunship outside of Fallujah in November 2006.

    That is the reality of war - innocent children suffer the most.  It has always been thus, and will always be.  

    And for people to claim that "we don't intend to hurt civilians" is to either flat out lie or to be suffering from delusions.  They make me sick.

    The occupation of Iraq will not be disrupted. - Chris Hedges 3/2/09

    by dancewater on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:52:01 AM PDT

  •  Thing Is, This Has Always Been Public (6+ / 0-)

    Just last night TCM played 2 movies filmed just after WW2 that portrayed the stress, the huge swings of emotion, the arbitrariness of life, injury and death, the conniving to get off the front --everything we talk about.

    Every war produces such works.

    I grew up among WW1 and 2 combat vets around 10 years after the war. And there were many who'd make it abundantly clear that war is hell, even if they wouldn't relate every last detail. You'd have had to have been a moron to want to sign up for that after talking to any of the vets who raised me.

    This iconic silent-suffering veteran is very common no doubt --but there are more than enough who tell more than enough, especially among the maturing boys in my experience, that no you really don't have to have been there at any time in our history to know how serious and devastating war is.

    Then everybody forgets.

    Well on Memorial Day, this musician who's buried more than a few service people will remember all of it, not just the fallen and the noble causes.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:52:22 AM PDT

  •  To Change, (6+ / 0-)

    excellent diary

    Yes we did. And we will keep doing...

    by pickandshovel on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:55:09 AM PDT

  •  New interactive map from Google Earth (8+ / 0-)

    There was just a story on CNN in which John King demonstrated a new interactive map from Google Earth.  The program allows you to locate the war dead individually, there is a link to a very brief biography, and a timeline and location line to the site and time of death of each one.  Also, running statistics in a frame on the left side of the page.  This is worth bookmarking.  It is called Map the Fallen.

    Here is the link to the page by the developer of the program at Google.

    I just downloaded it and looked up several names from our area.  It is a sobering program.

    It is horrifying that we have to fight our own government to save the environment. - Ansel Adams

    by Otteray Scribe on Sun May 24, 2009 at 09:55:41 AM PDT

    •  Awesome project...Thanks for link! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Otteray Scribe

      Especially this intro: Although this map only shows the hometowns and places of death for these soldiers, it's important to remember that each of these servicemen and women have a rich story in between, which leads me to something a Gold Star mom recently shared with me:
      "There'll be two dates on your tombstone
      And all your friends will read 'em
      But all that's gonna matter is that little dash between 'em..." - Kevin Welch

      Amazing the Time I waste Here!

      by raster44 on Sun May 24, 2009 at 12:07:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Right on! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pickandshovel, polar bear, allenjo

    "Peace cannot be achieved by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

    by BigAlinWashSt on Sun May 24, 2009 at 10:01:23 AM PDT

  •  Good to have this diary here on Memorial Day. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pickandshovel, BigAlinWashSt, allenjo

    Thank you.

  •  Have You Been To Jail for Justice? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    polar bear

    Have You Been To Jail for Justice?, Peter, Paul and Mary.

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Thomas Jefferson

    by allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 10:33:29 AM PDT

  •  One Tin Soldier (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    polar bear, allenjo

    Can't figure out the embed thing.  This video is odd because it starts with a Christmas song, but Cher gets to One Tin Soldier at about the 30 second mark.  Emphasis in the text is mine.  (I might as well pimp my diary from last Memorial Day...)

    One Tin Soldier

    Listen children to a story that was written long ago
    'Bout a kingdom on a mountain, and the valley folk below
    On the mountain was a treasure buried deep beneath a stone
    And the valley people swore they'd have it for their very own.

    (Chorus:)

    Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend
    Do it in the name of heaven, you can justify it in the end
    There won't be any trumpets blowing, come the judgment day
    On the bloody morning after - one tin soldier rides away.

    So the people of the valley sent a message up the hill
    Asking for the buried treasure, tons of gold for which they'd kill

    Came an answer from the kingdom: "With our brothers we will share
    All the secrets of our mountain, all the riches buried there.

    Chorus

    Now the valley cried with anger, mount your horses, draw your sword!
    And they killed the mountain people, so they won their just reward
    Now they stood beside the treasure on the mountain dark and red
    Turned the stone and looked beneath it -
    "Peace on Earth" was all it said.

    Chorus

    -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

    by luckylizard on Sun May 24, 2009 at 11:25:17 AM PDT

    •  "constant vigilance" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      luckylizard, polar bear

      Thank you luckylizard, from your diary as below:

      I lost track of Jerry after he graduated.  I don’t know if he had to serve or even if he’s still alive, but he’s on my mind a lot lately.  With all the talk about how the burdens of our current war are not equally shared as they were (Cheney and his ilk, notwithstanding) in Vietnam, it makes perfect sense that we have not seen the level of protest this time around.  Still, I wonder how we got to a point that it’s OK for someone else’s kid to fight and die while we all go on with our lives.  I ask myself why it’s OK for the rich and their corporations to get massive tax cuts when it is they who disproportionately benefit from continued conflict.  I finally get to the real question:  what the hell are we doing there?  

      For those who’ve never heard it, "One Tin Soldier" is a good example of the kind of folk songs that were played during Vietnam.  That I could listen to it all these years later and hear a theme that still applies makes me realize that, human nature being what it is, we can never assume that we have permanently changed our country for the better.  Whoever it was who talked about "constant vigilance" was right.  We must be ever watchful, not only for military threats from without, but from threats to liberty from within.  I have emphasized some pertinent things that jumped right out at me....

      "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Thomas Jefferson

      by allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 11:53:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'd forgotten about it. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        allenjo

        A friend pointed it out to me the other day, and it seemed worth a nod again this year.  Thanks!

        -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

        by luckylizard on Sun May 24, 2009 at 12:09:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Memorial Day at Arlington National Cemetary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    polar bear

    Memorial Day - Arlington
    http://www.youtube.com/...

    "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Thomas Jefferson

    by allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 11:48:46 AM PDT

  •  Great diary. My father was the last of a long (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    polar bear, allenjo

    history of my family in the military (maybe not the last). People who argue for war ought to be willing to fight it themselves.

    The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?' - 1984

    by MinistryOfTruth on Sun May 24, 2009 at 12:17:33 PM PDT

  •  Fallen Soldier Ceremony (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    polar bear

    Fallen Soldier Ceremony

    I can never watch this video without my eyes brimming with tears, it truly is heartwrenching.
    And the best I could ever post for Memorial Day.

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Thomas Jefferson

    by allenjo on Sun May 24, 2009 at 12:24:35 PM PDT

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