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The folks over at the non-profit Sandler Foundation-bankrolled investigative reporting site ProPublica have established a terrific project that ought to be of great interest to green-minded folks: Adopt a Stimulus Project.

The adoption project is the first assignment for ProPublica’s Reporting Network. In charge is Amanda Michel, previously the editor of OfftheBus at the HuffingtonPost.

...people will dedicate themselves to following a local road or bridge reconstruction project funded by the stimulus and to monitor it through its completion. These reporters will be looking to see what is getting repaired, how highly trafficked the road or bridge is, whether companies that receive funds are following environmental and labor laws, how many people are employed by the project, and so on.

"This is precisely the kind of nitty-gritty investigative work that will reveal some surprising facts, but takes time and patience to do well," said Michel.  "In the process of working with our network members, we’ll take investigative journalism into a new collaborative sphere and help the American people determine where the stimulus program is succeeding and where it’s falling short."

ProPublica has so far only taken on the monitoring of $27 billion in bridge and road construction repairs. That’s a big chew by itself. But if enough interested people join the network, some specifically green stimulus projects might be added to that collaborative effort.

For instance, there is the $4.24 billion in stimulus money that the General Services Administration will be devoting to full and partial modernizations of federal buildings under the High Performance Green Building Program. Every state has projects under that program.

To sign up for the network, send an e-mail to or visit ProPublica’s Special Reporting Network to register.

Of interest to those pondering this project, the White House released its report on stimulus spending Wednesday, Recovery Report:100 Days 100 Projects.

= = =

The rescue begins below and continues in the jump.

The climate and energy bill is nowhere near what it could and should be A Siegel opined in WTF are you?: "Do you win by saying 'this ain't what I want but YEAH, everyone, support it'?  And, then, painfully watch it watered down even further by attacks from anti-science suffering global warming deniers and influence from fossil-foolish lobbyists inserting themselves into the legislative process? Or, do we get a stronger bill by reminding (STRONGLY) that this bill has tremendous shortfalls and does not even live up to basic principles? Principles ... Principles matter. The three principles proposed: Scientifically Sound; Polluters Pay; Socially Equitable. These three seem to provide a keystone of what should be at the core of the legislation and core words that could enable describing this to the overall American public to build support for what might well be the most important single piece and most far-reaching legislative activity in American history. We should return to these principles as we consider the ACES and paths forward ... We should fight to bring the final legislation in line with these principles."

= = =

The Overnight News Digest is posted and includes the story, Multiracial people become fastest-growing US group.

= = =

h/t for Adopt a Stimulus Project to Marty Durlin at High Country News

Teryn Norris at the Breakthrough Institute wrote The Catch-22 of Waxman-Markey: Is Offsetting Inevitable?: "Every climate bill, in the U.S. and abroad, contains provisions limiting how high carbon prices established by the policy can rise.  The Waxman-Markey American Clean Energy and Security Act (ACES) is no different.  As the Breakthrough Institute previously reported, ACES would allow polluters to purchase up to 2 billion tons per year of relatively cheap carbon "offsets," which could allow emissions in supposedly "capped" U.S. sectors to rise by up to 9% between 2005 and 2030.  The EPA predicts that, largely due to the extensive use of offsets, carbon prices will remain less than $20 per ton of CO2 for the next decade."

Detroit Mark reported that Gov. Granholm Declared Michigan to be Green Belt & EV Central: "What an odd paradox.  During a time when the entire world is watching to see whether General Motors will file for Chapter 11 restructuring, leaving an even deeper hole left by bad business decisions and poor product design ... Governor Jennifer Granholm gives Michigan and the US an exact opposite message. Michigan, the state that has been cursed with the nickname ‘Rustbelt’ ... is also the state that's going to completely turn this huge industry completely on its ear."

newpapyrus explained how we can Fuel our Nuclear Future: "One frequent argument against the expansion of commercial nuclear power is the claim that our planet is simply running out of the nuclear material to power the world's nuclear reactors. So any future expansion of the commercial nuclear power industry would simply be out of the question. ... it is estimated that there are approximately 5.5 million tonnes of proven uranium reserves at a cost below $130 per kilogram. With the resurgence of nuclear power, however, it is estimated that the exploration for new uranium sources would increase total reserves to more than 16 million tonnes. The current world demand for uranium is 65,000 tonnes per year. So there should be enough uranium to supply current global nuclear power facilities for 246 years."

Are The Lobbyists Writing the Food Safety Laws? inquired Jill Richardson: "A quick look at lobbying reports found that in the first quarter, the following companies alone spent over $6 million on lobbying. ... It doesn't help that one of the Republicans on the committee, Roy Blunt, is married to Kraft's top lobbyist. And what did consumer advocacy groups spend during the same period of time? $112,983 for lobbying on all issues (not just food safety). ... What are they lobbying for? Surprisingly enough, they are FOR a food safety bill. So I don't think the question is whether or not a food safety bill is going to pass. The question is how good the bill will be. How much will it represent our interests vs. how much will it represent the lobbyists' interests?"

Stranded Wind got a chance to take an Ethanol Plant Tour a few days before it goes into production, and he posted numerous photos. "The facility is a hundred million gallon a year plant built by Fagen for One Earth Energy in Gibson City, Illinois."

Nuisance Industry took note that Van Jones, Hilda Solis, Joe Biden announced a $4 billion upgrade of public housing: "Jones, in a comment before the announcement at the Denver Science Museum, said ‘This president is committed to literally millions of jobs in this sector over the course of his term,’ and that the renovations of public housing stock would account for about 40% of the funds set aside by Obama to improve energy use in government buildings. Also at the Denver announcement was HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan [who with Labor Secretary Hilda] Solis announced that HUD and Labor are working together to make it easier for public housing residents to find training programs or a green job, again in keeping with Jones's recommendations for sustainable development."  

chondrally offered a highly technical look at Why extreme climate model predictions above 5 Celsius increase may be unrealistic.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:38 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Got a letter from my congressman (6+ / 0-)

    I wrote my congressman John Olver a month ago expressing my disgust over the torture memos. I finally got a response.


    Thank you for contacting me regarding our nation’s interrogation policies.  I appreciated hearing from you.

    As you know, on April 16, 2009, the Obama Administration released memos issued by the Office of Legal Counsel between 2002 and 2005.  The memos describe techniques that were used in the interrogation of terrorism suspects during that period.  These documents highlight the Bush Administration’s deliberate and systemic violation of the Geneva Conventions in the five years following the September 11, 2001, attacks.

    The interrogation techniques outlined in the memos are commonly understood throughout the world to constitute torture.  I agree with you that it is appalling to consider that the President, Vice President and other top officials conspired to create a policy that sanctioned these acts.  These practices are an anathema to our country’s ideals and values.

    You will be pleased to know that on January 22, 2009, President Barack Obama issued an Executive Order rescinding the Bush Administration’s interrogation policy.  The new Order requires that interrogations of anyone in U.S. custody follow the Army Field Manual.  The Manual explicitly prohibits nine categories of interrogation techniques, including water boarding, used by the Central Intelligence Agency during the Bush Administration.

    While President Obama’s Executive Order and subsequent release of Office of Legal Counsel memos send a clear message, critical questions remain about the role and legal culpability of high-ranking officials in directing and approving the use of these techniques in the previous administration.  I support the creation of an independent, nonpartisan commission to thoroughly investigate how decisions were made, who was involved, and if clear criminal actions took place.  No one, regardless of position or prominence, can neglect their responsibility to uphold our nation’s principles and laws.

    Please be assured that I will continue to support investigations to hold the Bush administration accountable for its conduct.

    Again, thank you for contacting me.  Please let me know if you have other questions or concerns.


    John W. Olver

    "The heresy of individualism: thinking oneself a completely self-sufficient unit and asserting this imaginary `unity' against all others" Thomas Merton

    by Pinko Elephant on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:41:10 PM PDT

  •  Speaking of tracking the Obama Administration... (6+ / 0-)'s the Obameter, which tracks the status of Obama's campaign promises.

    "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Jesus (Matthew 19:24)

    by ScottyUrb on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:44:11 PM PDT

  •  how and why... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pinko Elephant

    did we put an AmbroseBurnside diary on the rec list? Have we no standards?

  •  Question - doing this a second time - help? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, Pinko Elephant, mieprowan

    Not meaning to be a pest, but if I could get some help on this I would sincerely appreciate it.

    I think there is a word or phrase that denotes a style of argument or debate characterized by a "shotgun" of many different points.  Often the points may be to tangents of questionable relevance.

    The word or phrase may be (I think is) coined from the name of a person that used this tactic.  Here I'm a bit hazy, but I think it may have been in debates over the existence of god, evolution, or abortion.

    Yeah, that sounds like a rather broad and divergent description of topics, but to narrow it a bit, I'm almost certain it wasn't I/P.

    Maybe this is a figment of my imagination.  I've googled every way I can think of and can't come up with it.  But I swear I remember reading this a few years ago.

    Any help from the community mind?

  •  Less than 1 month after his GBCW (4+ / 0-)

    Stranded Wind writes his 5th diary in that month.

    Not complaining; just sayin...

    Dick Cheney rhymes with "sick meanie." Pass it on.

    by LaughingPlanet on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:52:10 PM PDT

  •  Kavya Shivashankar (7+ / 0-)

    Free Image Hosting at
    WASHINGTON - MAY 28: Speller Kavya Shivashankar of Olathe, Kansas, holds up the trophy after she won the 2009 Scripps National Spelling Bee competition May 28, 2009 in Washington, DC. Shivashankar correctly spelled the word "Laodicean" and became the champion in round 16.

    Kavya participated in the 2006, 2007, and 2008 national finals—tying for 10th, 8th, and 4th place, respectively.

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:53:43 PM PDT

  •  Investigative reporting? (0+ / 0-)

    Do brown shirts come with the job?

    Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

    by Riddlebaugh on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:58:54 PM PDT

    •  Pardon? n/t (4+ / 0-)

      "Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?" - Michael Corleone

      by Meteor Blades on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:02:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The people supposedly being served, (0+ / 0-)

        and who are paying for it, doing the monitoring and spy work.  Hitler did it with brown shirts.  

        Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

        by Riddlebaugh on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:24:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So, your claim is that ProPublica's project... (4+ / 0-)

 akin to Nazis? Wow.

          "Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?" - Michael Corleone

          by Meteor Blades on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:28:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No claim to it, M.B., & no premise, P.P. (0+ / 0-)

            Does anyone here really think their claims are anymore than just statements?  There is no "premise" to what I said, Purple Priestess.  No facts or figures, no charts, no dug up information, no Deep Throat.    

            As good a thing as it is, something similar to Brown Shirts happens with Neighborhood Watch.  The participants get a taste of overview with authority, however moot the amount of authority and limited the overview, and they start getting heady, entering private property uninvited to check things out, chins jutted, magnetic placards officiously on their car door.  Especially anyone likely Republican love it.  They love it.  Power over by presence, and sharing what is seen.  

            Have you ever seen anything about Hitler's Brown Shirts?  It really is very close; citizens on citizens, doing it for whoever is really in power and rolling in the salary and perks that come with it.  Agreed, in the case of ProPublica, (imagine a "k" where the c is--not a big leap) a citizen's eye kept on public work projects by private companys, the observers with zero experience at what they are looking at, and only outrage from the last administration that never got sated driving them.  What do they have to talk about when they "tell" someone what they see?  That they saw someone take an eleven minute break instead of a ten minute one?  State road crews stand around all day, four guys standing over an "x" painted on the gravel.  And who do these observers tell?  What can come of it?  Or is it something to keep out of work millions busy instead of marching on whoever got rich off of the collapse of the economy, that is, if they knew who to march on?  Or is it a way for those in real power to slickly institute more pressure on just people, by the people themselves, and for those in power to retain their prestige with just more speaches, debates in Congress, filibusters, focus on inconsequencial rabid fat talk show hosts and dumbed down by dogma governors from the boonies up north?  Otherwise, what is the people's purpose there at the job sites?  To be a Crow, or surrogate Eagle, with pad and c-phone camera in hand, eye brow raised in disapproval to express the power of the people, to make workers who are as hard hit by politic's games be paranoid, when the workers know the watcher doesn't know what s/he is looking at?  And if the workers actually do get paranoid, get distracted, and slip up, like fall off the bridge, or not tighten an important bolt somewhere, who is to blame?  The purpose seems to me to be to make the public more and more and more and more willing to bust itself, to help those in power limit the people's freedom more, and get us all more used to being infringed upon.  

            Meanwhile, whoever made all the money off these Middle East wars (for just one thing) is still unnamed, invisible, untouched, unprocecuteable, oh, and free, with 20 manicured nails that never had dirt or blood under them, who knows how many mansions, and for sure no frets about $ so much you will never see them observing work projects.  We lessen our numbers, theirs stay the same, and grow kind of thing.  

            Am I attacking an Obama idea?  No.  Am I attacking Obama at all?  No.  I like him and what he says he stands for.  And I wish he had been around in 2000.  Or been allowed to be around.  But I don't buy into the hope hypnotism hype that comes with the O package.  I've been to war.  Suriviving isn't all it's cracked up to be, a thing loaded with weight to carry the rest of my life.  Hope?  It's cheaper than prozac, but it implies doubt, no matter how optimistic one is about it.  I go with what I know, and my gut feeling, the thing that has kept me alive.  My gut flashed on Brown Shirts, the image rose up in my head all on its own.  Nobody else seemed to have gotten that idea.  So I added it to the conversation to give the conversation stretch.  Because I like the Kos, like I liked TO when it had a TM--similar fairly open-minded people, with similar ideas of what "forward" is, most of whom can handle quantities of details and technology way better than I, and I want to contribute to the conversation, be part of it.  I read (present tense) a long diary, with pasted bits, or pages, quotes, caps and recaps, and opinions about it all, and have to read the commentarys to get the idea, because my eyes started jittering around half way through the diary.  That's just me.  And because of my reliance on my gut, I tend more toward the metaphysical, which is a weird thing to bring to a political conversation, I know.  I mean, politics is far from metaphysical.  Right?  More often politics is intellectual tangents tied into knots, the knot called an "item."  And, I realize it is necessary.  

            Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

            by Riddlebaugh on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:02:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Just because something "flashes" in your head (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Meteor Blades, RunawayRose

              doesn't make it a good idea.  Sometimes it's something that is supposed to get caught by the filters that keep you from saying something stupid in public.

              Some people end up getting help managing it.

              •  It's quite true (0+ / 0-)

                that everyting that flashes through one's head is not necessarily a good idea.  And filters are necessary.  I did not mean to imply anything different.  Experience separates the wheat from the chaff, and successfully surviving with a modicum of inner and outer peace proves out the flashes.  I don't see how your truism applies to this case.  If you knew my life, how I manage my "flashes", and what I've gone through to be able to manage them, I think you would agree.  But I didn't and don't think it's appropriate for me to get into even a short-winded explanation of my inner workings, or give a bio to sate anyone's skepticism.    

                But I will say this, for what it's worth, which I realize may be nothing in the long run, and, if it's something, is only of relative value to any hearer: with the flash came a gut feeling that over time has proven itself to be a good guide in my life that when followed has successfully maintained my life in a manner that keeps me and those around me comfortable.  

                Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                by Riddlebaugh on Fri May 29, 2009 at 11:02:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  so you're saying (0+ / 0-)

              that the private sector shouldn't be doing the government's job for it, that we shouldn't ally ourselves with the police, something like that.

              That makes for a good debate topic. I agree with you on Neighborhood Watch; it's bad enough that the police cruise slowly down our residential streets watching us, when there is no sign of trouble and no one has called them.

              Regarding monitoring of public works sites, it does suggest a kind of "us" vs. "them" mentality, as if the people actually doing the work are de facto conspirators up front, in any wrongdoing that might occur, which suggests that the real problem is how unwilling most people are to make waves, or take risks as individuals; how strong the drive is to ally one's self with one's perceived tribe, in this case, one's co-workers, etc.

              "Anybody who's made bread knows what happens when yeast sits in its own juices for too long. It dies." - Anonymous Bosch

              by mieprowan on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:32:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "shouldn't be doing the governments work" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                Exactly.  Or, if one absolutely is driven to do so, they should be trained for it and get paid for it, and be more than just a zealous Public Co tattle-tale.

                Re: us vs. them: it more than suggests it, it institutes it.  Would Republicans be out there taking notes on someone else's work?  I doubt it.  They'd be playing golf, or Bridge, or attending a fund raising dinner where they are called "the elite," or listening to Sir Limpness rant.  So, I would think it's just a ploy to keep the politically verbal Democrat constituency quieter and busy, feeling participant and authoritative after eight years of abusive disenfranchisement, with real the draconian possibility of just cooling their heels in an active manner, so other things can be slid by by those who do have real authroity.  Better, I think, that those already in authority do the job they are already being paid too much to do considering the quality of their work, and keep giving themselves raises for, no less.  As well, it creates more pubic disunity, on top of the disunity created by whoever Bush Co was the point man for.  

                Once the disunity is instituted, what next?  Some seeming universal salve that will loosing our grips on each other's necks, like One World Government?  40 years ago, between tokes, I idealized the idea of no national boundries.  But now, after Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II, to name a few, I ask "Who would be in charge, and what is the potential of it being someone with good for all concerned in mind any more than politicians already prove themselves not to be up to?"

                To keep a balanced perspective, we need to remember that the consellation nearest to The Big Bear, where the guiding North Star resides, is The Dragon.  


                Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                by Riddlebaugh on Fri May 29, 2009 at 11:31:52 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I will add to your commentary (0+ / 0-)

                  that back in the old days, socially active people worked on getting the workers organized into unions, not on acquiring roles as unpaid foremen.

                  However, I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater here - does one extend this argument to say watchdog organizations are a unilaterally bad idea? Surely not?

                  "Anybody who's made bread knows what happens when yeast sits in its own juices for too long. It dies." - Anonymous Bosch

                  by mieprowan on Fri May 29, 2009 at 11:45:58 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree with you, mieprowan, about (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    wanting to keep the baby and dump the water.  At least in the case of a real live baby and real dirty water, which may or may not realistically apply.  Still, lots of room for more "howevers" of all sorts.

                    I think the main thing is it's a distraction of focus from those who are paid to do something and are not doing it, namely, the politicians.  It puts potential blame on those citizens who would hoover around worksites if only for a government sanctioned sense of authority over someone else, while still getting screwed from every angle.  It might decrease their need for prozac for a little while.  But at some point some alum water is required, or extra TP.  

                    Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                    by Riddlebaugh on Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:23:32 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  but it is funded (0+ / 0-)

                      by a nonprofit, the Sandler Foundation. And the people staffing it are referred to as "reporters," and the person in charge is from HuffPo. So I'm not quite sure how we get to "government-sanctioned," this does not really sound like a "fox guarding the henhouse" situation.

                      Where I connect up with your argument mostly is similar to what you describe as the main thing; and I would describe it as paying twice for the same thing - support the non-profit to do the job that you're also paying the government taxes to do.

                      You do frame it, though, in a manner that sort of equates reporters to snitches, and that's ethically complicated in a manner that is way outside the scope of this conversation, I'm afraid.

                      "Anybody who's made bread knows what happens when yeast sits in its own juices for too long. It dies." - Anonymous Bosch

                      by mieprowan on Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:34:21 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Ah, thank you for illuminating me. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:

                        Funded, you say?  Yes, paying twice.  Not very efficient, to say the least.

                        You are right.  I was framing it to equate "reporters" to snitches, because in this sense these supposed reporters are not professionally trained, or educated in or resricted by journalistic ethics.  And their job takes the onus off those already paid to do the job--spin made manifest.  Think prison, because our freedoms do seem to be evaporating, and what happens to snitches there, and whose work they are doing.  I would think at least some of the Sandler Foundation "reporters" will end up needing to look over their shoulders.  I mean, who are the role model examples?  Politicians, the Pentagon, their war machine and tactics, the intellegence agencies and their tactics.  

                        I could be stretching my imagination, but I don't think the "reporter" idea bodes well.

                        As for the scope of any conversation, it goes where it goes, does it not?  At least, open ones do.  That has been the case in my 63 years of experience.  Otherwise it's at best a not very open conversation, and at worst possibly only a sleep inducing monolog, no matter how many people are speaking.  Some of the most abstract stuff has proven to be the meat of the matter, and the normal statements no more than illusury spin.  I think, considering the amount of stuff government witholds from the public, the abstract is a valid contribution to the conversation.  

                        But, whatever.  Thanks for clarifying for me.  :-)

                        Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                        by Riddlebaugh on Sat May 30, 2009 at 03:27:57 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I didn't mean to censor your speech (0+ / 0-)

                          my reaction was more along the lines of "not a comment, please diary;" i.e. huge subject.

                          I will note that you are on exceptionally thin ice, though, casting aspersions upon the entire concept of amateur reporters on a blog like this one, where amateur (and even not-so-amateur) reporting is effectively encouraged, and considered at times to be a cut above many of the diaries here that are more like clipping services with commentary (though some of those are excellent in their own ways).

                          And in fact, this blog is considered by some to be collectively better at breaking news than mainstream news outlets, at least with regards to some of the folks here (such as the one upon whose diary we are commenting). I do not think these people will like being compared to brownshirts.

                          "Anybody who's made bread knows what happens when yeast sits in its own juices for too long. It dies." - Anonymous Bosch

                          by mieprowan on Sat May 30, 2009 at 04:24:47 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I don't know what a "not a comment please diary" (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            is.  Or what you mean to be saying by that.  If you are willing, I'd like to know.  In the meantime, thank you for responding.

                            I'm sorry you think I'm on thin ice, whatever you mean by that.  Is the ice really thicker where you are?  How do you know?  How does one get there?  The image I tend to go with is my feet on the ground and my head in the stars.  

                            I'm often called pithy when I'm just trying to keep what I say trim and as real as I see it, as much to avoid deluding myself as avoid misrepresenting myself to anyone.  Unfortunately, I don't succeed at that with the latter as much as I'd like.  Really, I wasn't projecting any attitude "at" anyone with my post you initially responded to or any after.  I liked the article, the way it was constructed, do appreciate Kos, and the people posting here, and their attitudes.  I think our purpose here, besides to communicate with like minds, is to keep each other awake, prevent another Bush and all that implies, and grease the wheels of good to all concerned.  As far as us steering anything goes, we are no where near the helm.

                            Likely you are right they won't like being compared to Brown shirts.  All I can do is laugh at myself for my social ineptness.  I'm social, with few skills.  However, I wasn't comparing them to Brown shirts.  I say again, Brown shirts was only a flash I had and shared.  My inner imagery is raw, I admit.  But it's intent is sincerity and helpfulness.  It rose up out of my sub/unconscious, formed by my life experiences, and I put it out to see how real it might be, relying on the reflection it gets for that.  The fact that I do it on Kos is a compliment to the people here, it seems to me.  I've always been one for following my inner volitions and getting rid of those that don't work as fast as I can.  Far from me making or trying to make a case "against" anything, it was more like me waving a small flag, saying "we might need to be careful" to people whose thoughts I relate to and generally respect, hoping I was wrong about the need for care, and hoping through discussion I could be shown I was, if I was.  You have shown me some of my error.  I thank you for that.  I did thank you for that.  Is that thin ice?  

                            Yeah, it was a faux pas on my part, my comment about reporters, especially considering the place I said it.  No offense was intended for anyone.  :-/  I can only say that I faux pas alot.  It seems faux pas is a social impediment that I have to deal with in any kind of social situation, and I am aware of it, although mostly after the fact.  Here I am much more loquacious than I am in person, because there are no immediate responses to see and read.  Sometimes I become aware of my faux pas on my own later, sometimes years after the statement, when a thought about it courses through my head.  Again :-/  And sometimes nice people bother to let me know sooner than later, and in a nice way, like you did.  At least I think you were being nice about it.  If you were, thank you.  No sarcasm at all is involved in that appreciation.  

                            To touch on the "reporter" issue, one thing I continually realize is that the source of most of our information is the same source we were calling manipulated by the last administration.  Actually the manipulation has been in place for much longer than that.  Amreica or no, Psyop is alive and well and quite matured, grey haired even.  And I realize that only the front men have changed in the Exectutive Branch, while whoever still really runs the show is still doing it.  It seems that is an issue that never gets raised, or researched, by those who are willing and able to do it, to a very great depth.  We all, myself included, tend to talk about relative lice, like Limbaugh, Palin, Bush, Cheney, ad infinitum.  So, I tend to see all of us skating on thin ice, as it were, with any and all of our conclusions made from things presented in the media, conclusions that often melt quickly in the sun of informed scrutiny.

                            I admit I'm not as deeply involved in politics as most of the people here, and am cruder than many, as in more raw.  As well, I'm not as politically aware.  So I come to Kos.  Politics is a relatively new interest for me.  Unfortunately it took Bush to inspire me.  But I have come to realize the need to be aware of it, and to participate in some way.  The Kos seems like a nice place to do it.  42 years ago, when I realized the revolution had to be done inside first, I tuned in, dropped out, and got actively spiritual, more like Aggrippa than Bishop Sheen.  Never mind the fuel between tuning in and dropping out.  (<---Probably a lame joke.)  I really only began coming out of my circle when found love and made a new circle.  </p>

                            Anyway, I hope you are more able to understand what I meant by brown shirts and my comments about reporters.      

                            Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                            by Riddlebaugh on Sat May 30, 2009 at 05:44:18 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  okay, by thin ice (0+ / 0-)

                            I am envisioning what would happen if you posted a diary entitled "Are Kossacks Turning Into Brownshirts?" Let's just say there would be a lot of popcorn sold and that if you currently have TU status, you would shortly find that there were comments on the site that were no longer available for your perusal.

                            On the other hand, if you posted one called "You, Too, Can Be a Journalist," and then addressed the way blogging can get people inspired in that direction, and then presented an overview of journalistic integrity, and what journalism is really about, should be about, it might be well received indeed.

                            Far as social skills go, the Internet is rampant with people whose interpersonal skills are, shall we say, less than enhanced. I find blogging helps a lot with that, as one gets a lot of feedback as to one's communication skills, hones one's debating and anger management skills, and generally it is a good exercise for the brain, at least some blogs. And as far as making faux pas goes, there are so many people here engaging in so many conversations that I suspect they often don't even remember the user names of people they get into knock-down drag-out fights with, let alone the occasional faux pas. But being able to write intelligently gives you an advantage right off the bat, and you surely do.

                            "Anybody who's made bread knows what happens when yeast sits in its own juices for too long. It dies." - Anonymous Bosch

                            by mieprowan on Sat May 30, 2009 at 06:12:18 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  thx/ comment about how I write (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            Yeah, it's true.  Honestly, I envision the same thing if I were to post a diary here.  The people here seem much more intelligent and on top of it than most of us were on Truthout.  I don't really feel up to par.  Maybe some of it will rub off and I'll give it a try.  

                            As for writing something about journalism, I never was that into it.  Prose, satire, poetry, illuminative tid bits about spiritual how-to's, those I can write easily.  I do see a relativity to politics and spirit, but it hardly fits the conversational flow here.  Prose and poetry seem trite here.  Satire fits pretty good anywhere.  As someone said "One good horse laugh is worth 10,000 sylogisms."  

                            But I do have comments, on diaries and on comments.  

                            I just wish I thought any of the stuff on Kos had more of a real effect than it does.  I felt that way about TO, too.  

                            Anyway, thanks again.

                            Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                            by Riddlebaugh on Sun May 31, 2009 at 02:02:53 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  it can take awhile (0+ / 0-)

                            to find your voice here. And yes, it's good to start with commenting, but far as diaries go, there's all sorts of diaries here. Lots of stories, and even poetry (not to mention pet diaries, gardening diaries, cooking diaries, you name it). It's good to find a political angle in what you write, but really it's not that hard, or even mandatory.

                            But lots of people only comment, including some who write superlative comments that would make good diaries, so there you go.

                            You must be pretty new here with user ID 209864 - somehow I thought I'd seen you around earlier. So pardon me if I've written in a way that presumes too much site information on your part. If you haven't read the FAQ's, they explain a lot, including some of the history, which helps understand a fair piece of what's going on.

                            I think the stuff on Kos has a great deal of effect - on Kossacks. Change comes from the bottom, and you sound like the kind of person who might already be quite aware of that!

                            Good luck, and welcome to the blog.

                            "Anybody who's made bread knows what happens when yeast sits in its own juices for too long. It dies." - Anonymous Bosch

                            by mieprowan on Sun May 31, 2009 at 09:42:06 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  thx for open conversation (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            So, are you on the kos staff?  You sound a little like it in the post I'm responding to, citing my user ID #, etc.  And when I think back to your other responses, I could easily see sort of a patronizing (but not rude) authoritarian edge to them.  What's your badge number?  :-)  No offense intended with that image.  Just describing a feeling and tripping out.  

                            Whether you are staff or not, you do carry yourself as in the know.  Maybe you could answer a couple of questions, if you are into it.  Like: on my page/click comments, next to my comments' subjects is [x/x], followed by the number of replies.  What does the first and second x in those brackets stand for.  I assume they are some kind of ratings, but don't know.
                            And like:

                            Yes, I'm new here, finding my feet, enjoying the consciousness of the information and the givers of it, likely to look up rules.  Never was one for those things.  Spirit is enough of a FAQ source for me, and following it is always my first choice.  I've only recently, 2006, come to see political venues as a source for awareness needed for managing comfortable survival and possible manipulation of events, so now I dip into the more placid pools like kos.  I figure the rules on kos must be mostly common sense, given what is not censored.  I have no idea what is censored.

                            Thanks again for the open conversation.

                            Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                            by Riddlebaugh on Sun May 31, 2009 at 04:02:13 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  lol no I'm not on staff (0+ / 0-)

                            but I used to work with an internet-based organization, for ten years from about 1991 to 2001 and thus got used to writing to/at strangers online, explaining things, trying to be educational, etc.

                            Anyone can see the user ID #'s. Hold your mouse over my name (in orange) on my comment, and then look in the lower left corner of the screen. It won't work in full screen mode, but if there's a status bar down there it should show up.

                            No one is making you look up the rules, but not everyone will want to type them out for you when you ask questions. But the two questions you asked are not something I managed to work out from the FAQ's.

                            Regarding the ratings; there is stuff about the history of this in the FAQ's. At this time there are two ratings possible, 4's and 0's. 0's are hide recs. If it says 4/2 after your comment, that means you got two fours. You can click on the numbers to see who gave them to you. If you get a hide rec in there, the number will be lower than a four - if you get x# of fours and one zero, it will be averaged out. You don't get fours unless you get more than one "tip," and I don't think they count as fours unless you get them from TU's, and otherwise it may say 0/2, which means you got two tips but they didn't count as fours.

                            And it takes about three months before you can become a TU, and then if you get maybe twenty or forty fours a week that may be enough, other things matter, the algorithm is a closely guarded secret.

                            Why people hide comments: racism, bigotry, intentional disruption of comment threads, generally being a turd in the punchbowl.

                            Higher level censorship; no posting diaries with profanity in the titles (messes up people's obscenity filters, etc.) no outing personal information about other users, no promoting conspiracy theories. Maybe other things, I forget. This too is in the FAQ's.

                            If you get enough hide recs there is apparently an auto-ban function; people at times have successfully appealed this.

                            However, big changes are happening on the site; Markos just hired Meteor Blades to be the Community Director (I think that's the title) and though I would guess the rating system won't change, who knows? Markos has always been in charge of the site and this level of delegation is new for him, and very much likely an excellent idea. It's being quite well received, anyway.

                            "You will not become a saint through other people's sins." - Chekhov

                            by mieprowan on Sun May 31, 2009 at 05:12:48 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Thanks. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            I see you are only half as new as I am, numerically speaking of course.  :-)  And, aren't we all trying to be educational, even those weirdos we get to read on Saturdays?

                            I'm impressed at how at-home you seem with all that stuff.  In case you didn't know, stuff is a low-tech term for I'm still lost.  But I think you knew that already.  I do wonder what the need for rating is.  If I was truly paranoid, I could see brown shirts EVERYWHERE.  :-)  It's all a bit over my head.  I opt for underwhelment via detachment.

                            I don't know what a TU is, but if it involves work, I don't want to do it.  What comes to mind is that maybe there should be more revolting, rather than more rating.

                            Re: Comspiracy theories.  As out of society and under the radar as most of my life has been, a few years ago, out of the blue, in a Walmart parking lot no less, I met and became friends with one of our government's intelligence agency's retired spy/assassins.  In the course of sharing some of our lives with each other to get to know each other, he never gave me specific secret details of any of his missions, or even revealed the name of the agency he worked for.'s easy to see from what he did share that what passes for conspiracy theories with the general public are children's stories compared to what really goes on, maybe even fetus stories, or pre-conception stories.  Really.  I rely on the universe to fill in blanks about, and confirm anything I have questions about.  It always does, sometimes years later, but it always does.  His stories left me with many blanks and questions that the universe quickly, all on its own, confirmed, with no way he had a hand in it.  So, I find it difficult to deem what a conspiracy theory is, let alone give someone a star or the boot for it; reality is so much more draconian than anyone seems to suspect.  Most things the public just finds out about, and goes bananas about, is such old news, and has been gone beyond so far by the time they hear about it, that any emoting one way or the other is rediculous, whether to be hyped and paranoid about it, or to automatically discredit and disown the speaker for speaking it.  Touchy feely goodvibes are good, no doubt, and are likely rated 4s or higher by most even semi-religious folk, so to speak, meaning those who bit into the jesus story but don't attend any group or spew "amen", even the ones who are agressively militant and off the wall.  All that touchy feely stuff does is make one feel good.  Life is NOT all good, with or without the likes of Bush Co.  Life is barely half good, if that much, truth be told.  Life just is, to be experienced and enjoyed if at all possible, hence eternal optimist's lame justification for being so damn positive.  But rating life, or any bit of it, is moot.  Living life is what life is about.  I mean, "when two or more get together, god is there" is a conspiracy theory in concept, and a conspiracy in action.  At least, that's how I see it.  Given the number of kooks in the world, that particular kind of conspriacy is not necessarily something one would want to get near for their own saftey's sake.

                            That said, most of my comments on kos that got responded to got rated 4, whatever that amounts to.  I take it that isn't too bad, and not necessarily good, depending on TU.  ?  Duck soup below a mustache and wiggling eyebrows?  One never knows these days, eh?  In the brackets I have gotten mostly [none/1]. ?  I click on the bracketed doohickies with a number behind the /, and find who rated the post what number.  I get a lot of [none/1], which reminds me of the end of one of my poems: "All is one, one is none, and I am you."  That means exactly nothing really, by he way, but it sounded good, and one can sort of feel the vacuum that "nothing" creates, imagining that feeling is profundity.  :-)  That, or one can start quoting the bible's "all is one" in defense of it, and be verified innocent by religion for having that nothing feeling.  Honestly, I think where the vacuum enters the picture is the bible.

                            I guess the kos has been around a while.  It's concerns have gotten complex, like a budding culture developing into a blooming nation of laws.  I wonder what TO would be like now if the townmeeting area hadn't been dumped by the site owner.  Probably better not to waste energy on that thought.  But I will say there were quite a few TOers who got a sort of PTSD en masse when it got dumped.  And, one of those among the dumped, who was generally more respected and read in the townmeeting, a wannabe-journalist (he really wanted to be a journalist) eventually created a political site for the dumpees and then exposed himself to have been an infiltratee troll in sheeps clothing on TO TM.  So, good journalism does not necessarily a liberal journalist make.

                            Anyway, thanks.  I hope you will put up with my ignorance and circular manner of speach in the future, and allow me to ask questions.  I can certainly use the help, and I like your manner of giving answers.  Your teaching is palatable.

                            Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                            by Riddlebaugh on Sun May 31, 2009 at 09:18:25 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  thanks for your kind words (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            I joined here last September; things probably slowed down after the election. I don't do a lot besides read, blog and garden these days, so I have time to write stuff like this. Keep the brain sharp, y'know?

                            TU status is what you get, like it or not, if you've been here for about three months, and are reasonably active on the blog. That appears to mean writing comments, reccing comments, getting comment recs (4's). It doesn't have to be tons.

                            When you get TU status, you can (a) edit tags on diaries, (b) HR comments, and (c) read the hidden comments. The screen will change. Every comment you read will have a "hide" button next to the "rec" button. The sidebar on the right will display a "hidden comments" message that you can click on if you want to see the most recent hidden comments on all diaries and stories.

                            There is a lot of debate here as to what is a loser conspiracy theory and what is something worth consideration. None of that concerns me too much; the main stuff I pay attention to is accusations of racism and other bigotry.

                            There is a lot of touchy-feely stuff here, but they have whole diaries for it, like the cat diaries ("pooties"). Not a lot of Jesus, at least not much religious proselytizing (which is pleasant).

                            Comment ratings of none/1 usually are ratings from the person you wrote to, who is letting you know he or she read it, and maybe agreeing with you. It's one way to end a discussion politely. I often wish I could do it with email.

                            Daily Kos celebrated its 7th anniversary the other day. It's gone through various forms in the meantime. And if it went down tomorrow, yes, lots of people would become extremely stressed out. It isn't a democracy, but it is a community.

                            Happy to help.

                            "You will not become a saint through other people's sins." - Chekhov

                            by mieprowan on Sun May 31, 2009 at 10:07:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  YW, & Thx again (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            You are very helpful.  Because of it my slow wit figured out the value of the rec box next to reply.  Sorry I'm hitting you up for all this elementary computer/kos-ese stuff.  

                            Ah, no responsibilties come with TU.  That's a relief.

                            "Comment ratings of none/1 usually are ratings from the person you wrote to, who is letting you know he or she read it, and maybe agreeing with you. It's one way to end a discussion politely. I often wish I could do it with email."

                            Are you politely ending this exchage with the rating you gave?  Everything does seem covered, I suppose.  

                            Be well.

                            Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                            by Riddlebaugh on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 01:49:58 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  eventually the software on dKos (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            may automatically end comment exchanges on diaries; I've never engaged in such long enough to test it.

                            Responsibilities do come with TU; but the really important ones are negative - i.e. "Don't go around hide reccing people for lame reasons, don't add insulting tags to diaries you don't like," etc. Don't abuse power, in other words. You can handle that, I'm sure.

                            I ran into a comment elsewhere, from the guy who posted the diary we continue to comment upon here, yesterday; wherein he noted that people tend to try too hard to comment too quickly on diaries; they want lots of tips (positive recs, fours) for their comments, they want attention, whatever. He noted that this was not such a good idea, as it discourages thoughtful reading of the diary or story.

                            He's right. I commented back that it would do people well to realize that tips aren't that important (it's not hard to get tips anyway, if you're pleasant, as you are), and that there will likely be multiple chances to discuss any given issue.  So...what's the rush?

                            "You will not become a saint through other people's sins." - Chekhov

                            by mieprowan on Mon Jun 01, 2009 at 05:54:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I agree about tips (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            TO didn't have tips, or a rating system, but there was plenty of long-winded back patting.  It got pretty thick sometimes, which does seem to defuse energy that would be better focused on issues, exploring them, coming up with an avenue to express the energy in a way that backs or corrects someting in the real world, and it tends to take the focus out of the collective and into a single ego.  

                            You called not doing something--tip?--a way to politiely say one's end of the conversation is done.  Having something for that is likely good, because there is no way to read the face or body language of the person being conversed with, to know if they are squirming to stop, and, in general, people are such toadies when it comes to saying negatives, even like "I'm done."  But I fail to see a long range value in a rating system.  I mean, are we here for strokes, or to discuss issues, get clear on them, and apply real energy in the real workd to deal with the issues?  

                            On TO it always boiled down to someone either talking about their intention of writing letters to politicians, or zealots calling for sixties revolutionary like demonstrations.  The former got more lip service anyway.  The latter got little for response.  

                            The purpose of a TU role eludes me, as well.  It's sort of like military ranking, where you are an E-1 when you enlist, and E-2 in basic trainging, both of which have no stripes.  Then an E-3 (Private First Class-PFC) with one stripe after basic.  Next step is two striped Corporal, and on up through the ranks.  From PFC on up it takes someone higher recommending a promotion.  

                            Many people don't agree with me on this, but I think heirarchy is one of society's ills.  When we come into and go out of life, we are even with everything.  Between that, it seems to me no real good communication happesns unless it's even across, with no heirarchy.  But it seems to be universaly accepted that if there is a purpose of any kind, a heirarchy needs to be in place.  Heirarchy gives us things like politicians giving themselves raises, and us paying for it but unable to stop it.

                            And the hide recs thing seems like behind the back talk.  Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly.

                            Maybe all that rating and behind the back stuff is normal, and the reason I don't have a large number of friends is because I'm into out front and straight across communication, actively opting not to indulge in anything else.

                            Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                            by Riddlebaugh on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 12:21:31 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I've noted that the more people get (0+ / 0-)

                            involved in this blog, the less the rating system know whose work you like, and you support it by interacting with them, and by promoting their diaries by reccing them...but on the other hand, I myself (and I'm not the only one) pay more attention to the rescued diaries (these are noted every evening on the front page, which is the lefthand column) and people who write interesting comments, and subscribe to people I like so I don't miss their work when it comes up (see the hotlist button for that).

                            Your thoughts on the rating system and hierarchies are shared by others here; you can work effectively on this blog and pretty much ignore much of it. But tipping someone's comment is a nice way to let someone know you read it and felt friendly about it, even if you didn't want to answer.

                            I still tip comments a lot; it's also a way of saying "I'm on your side" when there's an argument. Tipping comments is kind of complicated, really; more so than it appears up front. I'm sure you'll figure out an approach with doing so, that works for you over time.

                            "You will not become a saint through other people's sins." - Chekhov

                            by mieprowan on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 12:59:51 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  something else that isn't in the FAQ's (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            I don't think...geez, if anyone ever asks me about rewriting the FAQ's, I'll have this comment thread to refer to! - and this is useful to know at times, is that every comment has its own URL, and if you click on the datestamp at the end of the comment after your name, that will bring the comment to the top of the page and you can copy the URL to send it by email or link into another comment or a diary. All comments that are replies to the original comment (or replies to the replies) will also be present. Comes in handy at times.

                            "You will not become a saint through other people's sins." - Chekhov

                            by mieprowan on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 01:23:25 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah, I guess tipping is cool (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            One could almost call it groovy.  It's the "rating" part of the business that a part of me sees as potentially patronizing, not straight across, encouraging heirarchy.  

                            You seem to be deep into the how-it-all-works.  Much deeper than I.  I find that admirable in a way.  I have some ingrained resistance, I guess.  Maybe it's a hangover from when just ignoring computers didn't succeed in making them go away.  I used to see computers as taking over the function of, and disabling everyone's subconscious functions, which are recording and filing emotionally packed data, as well as aligning with the conscisous (the observing) and super-conscious (the link to the malible stuff of the universe) when creating.  Hence the sense of blank mind and torqued emotional freak out and sense of total disempowerment when one's computer crashes.  Now I'm a computer a few times every day.  And I still don't know what a URL is, why it exists or what it can do--possibly all the same thing.  Lol.  I tell myself that ignorance on my part is saving my subconscious from need of a disabled parking sticker when electricity gets zipped by some world-wide cataclysm.    

                            I suppose keeping a running record of statements made is a good idea.  But that wipes the option of every politician's out, saying "I have no memory of that" when the need arises, and at the same time lessens their need to use their brain remembering things--double edged Tao.  As well, I find that to get a point across clearly everyone requires different words used when the same thing is being explained.  I think that is due to everyone's variance in definition of things, their place in their personal evolultion, and the variance that is generated by difference of time and space.  I think of this weird stuff.

                            But I can see how the links via computers comes in handy sometimes.

                            Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                            by Riddlebaugh on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 09:57:51 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  some sites don't have hide recs (0+ / 0-)

                            though they do have rating systems. Some deal with the rating systems in somewhat goofy ways. This is far from the only approach, the somewhat militaristic one here.

                            Some years back the site got into a huge fight with the owner about some advertising that was deemed distasteful, and ever since then (and perhaps earlier as well) people periodically spin off and start their own blogs. There's something almost organic about the process, when viewed long term. But I don't know of any as big as this one, unless 4chan is (I believe 4chan may predate DK).

                            I read a lot of meta diaries as well as the FAQ's after I joined in September, because it was driving me nuts not understanding what people were referring to so frequently. Meta diaries are diaries that discuss and analyze the site and its members and their behaviors.

                            This sort of thing is arguably addictive and surely could pose its dangers; I sympathize with what you are saying. It is helpful, though, for those of us who have trouble making friends, for one reason or another, generally because of geographical/demographic issues. I find it somewhat therapeutic personally.

                            The "withdrawal" you describe has to do with being cut off from the flow, the social contact, the mental stimulation, the finding out what's happening next. The feeling is akin to reading a novel that you're really enjoying and suddenly discovering that your copy is misprinted and the middle third of the pages are blank. You just want to throw the book at the wall, it's so frustrating.

                            If the electrical grid goes, we'll lose computers, but I fear we will have other problems sufficiently disabling that we may not focus on our cyber-loss for very long.

                            One of the interesting things about this site (and I guess they may all be like that) is no comment is ever deleted, ever. There you are down in stone, for better or for worse. I can't imagine how much storage space that must take up.

                            I find myself inclined to keep things in writing a lot even outside of boards and blogs, because I like having the history, because human memory is so unreliable and malleable. It will come in handy if anyone ever takes me to court, I figure. But it is endlessly intriguing how many ways people find to misunderstand each other; that's part of how blogging improves communication skills, one would think so at least.

                            URL=Universal Resource Locater; it is the address of the webpage you are currently on, in the bar at the top of the screen in the middle.

                            "You will not become a saint through other people's sins." - Chekhov

                            by mieprowan on Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 10:50:36 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The withdrawal was every bit as strong (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            as giving up heroin, although most of those going through it did not have that comparison in their lives.  Before that, there was a sense of therapy involved, but the withdrawal seemed to prove it a lie, a developed co-dependence rather than a developed interdependence.  I chose independence, detachment over pain.  Plenty going on in real life to deal with.  

                            However, it does sate my innate need to be social, and allows my intellect to shine more than it does in person, for I am not so swamped by the feeling of immediacy in the shadows swirling around the person I'm realting to.  In person, I feel the shadows and the time it takes to filter those to express myself comes off looking slow.  

                            I can only take so much of it though, and then I have to get up out of the computer chair, just to get the blood moving if nothing else, and to see if anyone had called in the meantime.

                            The stuff I write isn't in touch with the ground enough for someone to take me to court about it.  But I see your reasoning.  We used to say "Better paranoid than busted."  I still function that way.  Hey, now, what's that sound.  Everybody look what's going 'round.  It hasn't changed, other than to get more adept and have better technology to work with.

                            Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                            by Riddlebaugh on Fri Jun 05, 2009 at 07:47:15 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  so, are we to need nothing? (0+ / 0-)

                            If I lock you up in solitary confinement tomorrow, and you go nuts, are we to accuse you of being addicted to your life?

                            And, if therapy is only going to the therapist, and you are addicted to going to the therapist, then what is that?

                            I like this medium because nobody can interrupt you, and you don't have to wait for anyone to catch up. Everyone can pace themselves, at least to a certain extent. It's also less distracting than with 3D people. But, it sucks because nobody can touch you.

                            It's also safe because no one can touch you, because you don't have all that physical distraction. But no question but that it is a double-edged sword.

                            I live in a situation that is horrendously limited socially, and if it was not for that, I'd likely do this less. But things have never really worked out for me socially. If I had enough money I'd live in a small city with a really good university; that would work better. But otherwise it's the big city or retro small towns, and I like having a little more room than in the city, and more quiet. The big city was pretty lonely, too, anyway, and the air stank.

                            We were told here today that a new feature to the site will be announced tomorrow. I read some of the comments and they seemed to be running strongly towards "I hope it's a new and improved way to censor people, as long as it's me who gets to do the censoring." We have, I'm afraid, a long way yet to go.

                            "You will not become a saint through other people's sins." - Chekhov

                            by mieprowan on Fri Jun 05, 2009 at 09:06:55 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I like this medium, too. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            Large and small cities both have their pluses and minuses for me.  But I prefer the boonies to any size city.  I caretook an off-the-grid ranch for a year one time.  The best time of day was sitting in the outhouse first thing in the morning, door open, watching the sun rise, wild pigs and rabbits wandering around in sight, birds making the only white noise.  


                            Efectus nihil profundus sub pensus est

                            by Riddlebaugh on Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 10:22:41 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

        •  Perhaps you'd better explain your premise. nt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          As long as prejudice exists in this country - in this world - we are all its victims. ~~ Keith Olbermann

          by Purple Priestess on Fri May 29, 2009 at 12:24:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Who are you? What are you saying? n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, Purple Priestess

      "Politics is not left, right or center ... It's about improving people's lives." -Paul Wellstone

      by maggiejean on Fri May 29, 2009 at 12:14:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Chris Dodd on the air in CT (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pinko Elephant, nonnie9999

    From the AP:

    The 30-second spot set to air statewide in Connecticut on Friday features Obama praising the Democrat for his work crafting the new credit card reform bill that the president signed into law last week. Dodd chairs the Senate Banking Committee.

    "I want to give a special shout-out to Chris Dodd, who has been a relentless fighter to get this done," Obama says. The president's comments were made at a Rose Garden signing ceremony for the bill last week.

    Yet, The New Republic chimes in with Dodd's "desperation", deigning to appear on a liberal CT blog. Oh the horror....

    Today, Dodd--five-term senator, established Washington powerbroker, the man whose "magnificent handshake," The New York Times gushed two years ago, is "the grip of a pro, a ... political pro, which he is"--has been reduced to shoring up his liberal bona fides by railing against credit card companies on a blog called My Left Nutmeg (motto: "Where Connecticut Dems Scratch That Progressive Itch"). Despite representing a solidly blue state, he is, in his own words, an "underdog" in his reelection bid--perhaps the most vulnerable Democratic incumbent in the Senate.

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:59:46 PM PDT

  •  Rejected Grassroots Tourism Ad - Cleveland! (3+ / 0-)

    "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." - Oscar Wilde

    by greendem on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:01:08 PM PDT

  •  Off Topic (0+ / 0-)

    Meteor Blades:

    Are the front pagers going to discuss the growing controversy over Obama's relationship with the gay community.

    Specifically, some of the outlandish things Press Secretary Gibbs has been saying in response to repeated questions on gay rights issues?

    Thanks for your response.

  •  "Support the Latina or die" (0+ / 0-)

    Michael Kinsley's hilarious Op-Ed piece in the Washington Post.

    "Instead, they are in an agony of indecision, with GOP strategists openly warning: Support the Latina or die."

    We can only hope the GOP ignores the warning and goes down swinging. So far the Republican leaders, Limbaugh, Newt, Hannity and O'Reilly are going down on a ball of anti-Latino, anti-women fire.

  •  Green Diary rescue... or hub or random? (4+ / 0-)

    With the pending climate legislation, EPA hearings on carbon and an ever-building global treaty effort, why does a gree diary rescue turn into youtube's about Cleveland?  (I've lived there, I think they're funny, but still...)

    Wanted to post this from EPA endangerment hearings in Seattle last week.  This is an update from Jenny with the Sierra Student Coalition:

    From April 17th — June 23rd, the EPA is encouraging public comment.  They held two hearings for this purpose in Arlington, VA and Seattle WA on May 18th and 21st respectively.  I had the privilege of attending the Seattle hearing and rally, organized by a coalition of groups including the Sierra Student Coalition and Cascade Climate Network.   EPA reported that response to both hearings was "overwhelming."

    More than 2,000 people turned out in Seattle to support the EPA’s decision at the noon rally on the 21st.  Hundreds of children and students joined members of the faith, business, and environmental communities.  David Nokovic, freshman at Portland State University, spoke at the rally on behalf of the youth in attendance.   "We pledge to end this climate crisis within our lifetimes, because failing to do so is unconscionable," said Nokovic.  "We pledge to hold ourselves and our elected officials accountable, and we pledge to work with all who will join us."

    All through the day, nearly 200 people testified and over 90% of that testimony was in favor of global warming pollutant regulation.  Over 25 youth gave compelling testimony to the panel of EPA representatives who heard 10 hours of testimony that day.


    Endangerment hearings are a result of the Massachusetts case in the Supreme Court 2 years ago which found that carbon should be regulated under the clean air act.

  •  wow, spending all that money to fill (0+ / 0-)

    in potholes leaves me speechless.

  •  Cornhole apology watch.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Purple Priestess

    ...How long will he last?

    John Cornyn, is repudiating recent comments by Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich which claimed that Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor is a racist.

    Don't argue with 'publicans... Don't reason with 'publicans.. Just dominate 'publicans.

    by dehrha02 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:23:15 PM PDT

  •  random thought... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    "1 in 7 released return to terrorism..." isn't that a better rate than most american criminals who get out? (i've no idea where to go find a corresponding statistic.)
    •  relatedly, (0+ / 0-)

      what jogged that thought was the current reuters site headline article:

      "Alcatraz of the Rockies 7:00pm ET

      The small town of Florence, Colorado welcomes the prospect of having Guantanamo Bay detainees housed in a nearby supermax jail and calls their prisons "a recession-proof, non-polluting industry."

  •  Pentagon Bible Quotes (3+ / 0-)

    So, everybody's familiar with the story about Rumsfeld including Bible quotes in the briefings for Bush's war in Iraq.  I won't rehash it here.

    However, I was looking at some of the specific quotes being used.  Specifically, I was looking at "Whom will I send? Who will go on our behalf?"  It's from Isaiah 6:8.  Out of curiosity, I read on to the next sentence, and found this:

    Isaiah 6:9 (the very next verse) -- “Go and tell these people: ‘Listen continually, but don’t understand! Look continually, but don’t perceive!’"

    Who know Bush took his Bible so seriously?

  •  Happy Birthday John F. Kennedy! (0+ / 0-)

    I just realized he would have been the same age as my dad, 92.

    "It costs a lot of money to die comfortably" ~ Edmund Burke (prophesying the demise of the Republican Party)

    by Andhakari on Fri May 29, 2009 at 12:51:40 AM PDT

  •  Testing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I couldn't publish a diary heavy in tubes the other day because something was wrong with the html, I'm checking to see if I can post tube comments.

    If there's any justice in this world, there will never be an aircraft carrier named after George W. Bush.

    by Drewid on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:54:16 AM PDT

  •  Stimulus projects list by State (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    A Siegel

    Any improvements scheduled in your neighborhood? This site gives details, and you can vote on how important you think each project is.

  •  A true green post. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose, A Siegel, mieprowan

    My other house is on an island in the St. Lawrence River where the installation of a fairly large (claim is 197 MW) windfarm is complete, and should be fully on-line by end of June. Eighty-six turbines, 400 ft tall, spaced over the head (windward) side of the island.

    It looks shockingly awful, or awfully shocking to see so many 35+ story constructions on a flat, bucolic scene. So there is the tradeoff, green energy for a pleasant view lost. Most of the turbines are not running yet, so I have no comment about the noise, bird kills, or anything else. I was entirely a proponent of this project until I saw it.

    Tradeoff, tradeoff. That is my new mantra.

    Americans, while occasionally willing to be serfs, have always been obstinate about being peasantry. F. Scott Fitzgerald, the Great Gatsby

    by riverlover on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:50:26 AM PDT

    •  Absolutely ... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, riverlover, mieprowan

      there is no 'zero cost' energy option (not even 'conservation', which has its own costs).  

      Most people that I know who live with turbines in view have told me that it becomes a positive part of their land/viewscape.  (Sort of like people looking at their solar panels, in other cases ... writing as someone whose solar DHW is (FINALLY) being hooked up today.)  You may, or may not, agree as these go on line, see them turning, 'get used to it ...' and see this in a more positive light.

      •  I see the light. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        A Siegel, mieprowan

        I have had DHW solar for over 20 years. It sits flat on our roof, the angle is great for summer, too shallow for winter when snow fall, so few days of free HW then. I await seeing them all turning up there, I have seen some turning during testing and the speed is so slow that a turtle could probably crawl through between blades. I have always been a person who thought that change was normal, acceptable, and beyond my control. Still, shocking to see the new landscape. Lucky me, I can't see any of the turbines from my cottage (lee side of island).

        Have fun with DHW, it is very cool to get 150 deg water coming from the sun.

        Americans, while occasionally willing to be serfs, have always been obstinate about being peasantry. F. Scott Fitzgerald, the Great Gatsby

        by riverlover on Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:09:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  just a thought... (0+ / 0-)

    As a counterbalance to how Republicans refer to us as "the Democrat party", how about we use one of their own terms, but stress what we see as important about it? Call them "the Grand Old Party", with emphasis on "old". They can't even complain about it. Old as in washed-up and out of ideas, and just plain old.

    "Barack Obama must be a Dadaist because cow." --Bill in Portland, Maine

    by ubertar on Fri May 29, 2009 at 06:33:46 AM PDT

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