Greetings from Mississippi, and welcome to my first DailyKos blog entry! I am currently being held prisoner of war in a very, very, very red state. My hobbies include deleting "Obama is the antichrist" emails from my supposed friends, biting my tongue when I hear things such as "I hate my tires cuz they're black" and "Hitler had the right idea, but the wrong race." And yes, I did hear those actual phrases. Mississippi still has a long way to go.
So now I bring you the latest bit of right wing tomfoolery to worm its way into my inbox, a link to a lovely video of Congressman Forbes on the House floor, elucidating a very interesting alternative history of the U.S., one in which the 1st amendment apparently was never ratified. A great idea for a sci-fi novel, but I'm afraid history does not back up his arguments.
Here is the video of Rep. Forbes' address to the House on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/...
Obama is in good company, I would say, since these same arguments have been made against virtually all of our greatest presidents. Take for example this quote from a 19th century preacher:
"the founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, and Andrew Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity." Reverend Bird Wilson October, 1831
Furthermore, the faiths of the presidents are often used for political arguments which are popular today, but either the people making the arguments are sadly ignorant of their country's history, or they are simply trying to make political points. Many of the founding fathers were Deists (including many of the most prominent "fathers") who believed that God was the "great clockmaker," who created the universe, set it in motion, and sat back to watch without interfering in our affairs. In other words, no prophets and no messiah, as God does not intervene in the affairs of man. Here are some quotes from the presidents mentioned in the video as well as other comments relating to their views of organized religion:
"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine."
-- George Washington
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
"Millions of innocent men, women, and children since the introduction of Christianity have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries...."
-- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), approved unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by President John Adams
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
-- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), approved unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by President John Adams
In refusing to proclaim a national day of fasting and prayer during an epidemic, President Andrew Jackson said "I could not do otherwise without transcending the limits prescribed by the Constitution for the President and without feeling that I might in some degree disturb the security which religion nowadays enjoys in this country in its complete separation from the political concerns of the General Government."
-- Andrew Jackson, 1832
"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That’s my religion."
"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-- Abraham Lincoln
During McKinley's administration, the Treaty of Tripoli(1797) cited above was translated into Turkish in an effort to convince the sultan of the Ottoman Empire to convince Sunni Muslims in the Phillipines to accept U.S. rule.
"I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State; that public moneys shall not be used for the purpose of advancing any particular creed; and therefore that the public schools shall be non-sectarian and no public moneys appropriated for sectarian schools." Theodore Roosevelt, Address, New York, October 12, 1915
"May it not suffice for me to say ... that of course like every other man of intelligence and education I do believe in organic evolution. It surprises me that at this late date such questions should be raised."
-- Woodrow Wilson
"I come of Quaker stock. My ancestors were persecuted for their beliefs. Here they sought and found religious freedom. By blood and conviction I stand for religious tolerance both in act and in spirit."
-- Herbert Hoover
"The lessons of religious toleration--a toleration which recognizes complete liberty of human thought, liberty of conscience--is one which, by precept and example, must be inculcated in the hearts and minds of all Americans if the institutions of our democracy are to be maintained and perpetuated. We must recognize the fundamental rights of man. There can be no true national life in our democracy unless we give unqualified recognition to freedom of religious worship and freedom of education."
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
"As I say, not all of Jefferson's ideas were popular, though most of them were absolutely right....He was also called an atheist because he didn't believe in a state church, an official church of the government, and in fact made it clear that he didn't much like any church at all, though he did admire many, though not all, of the teachings of religion....And you'll recall that it was Jefferson, as governor of Virginia, who wrote the Statute of Religious Liberty in 1786, which said that ‘no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship’ but that all people ‘shall be free to profess...their opinion in matters of religion.’ He summed up very bluntly one time his view that no man harmed anyone else in choosing and practicing his own religion, or no religion. ‘It does me no injury,’ he said, ‘for my neighbor to say that there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’" -- Harry S. Truman
"Here we now have the freedom of all religions, and I hope that never again will we have a repetition of religious bigotry, as we have had in certain periods of our own history. There is no room for that kind of foolishness here."
-- Harry S. Truman
"I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute -- where no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote -- where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference -- and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him."
-- John F. Kennedy
Ronald Reagan, it is said, rarely attended worship services in the White House. Despite his proclamations of faith, he once tried to join the communist party but was denied admittance because the general opinion of him was that he had no real beliefs of his own, so it's hard to say what his true beliefs were.
"Reagan got carried away by stories of the Communist Party helping the unemployed, the homeless, the dispossessed. Some of his friends, people he respected, were Party members. So he turned to them. Said he wanted to become a communist... Said he was determined to join. They discussed it with the local Party leader, who asked around, and word came back that Reagan was a flake... They said Reagan couldn't be trusted with a political opinion for more than 20 minutes. So the decision was taken to prevent him from joining, but to use him as a friend of the Party."
-- Howard Fast quoted by Edmund Morris, - Dutch: A Memoir of Ronald Reagan
Furthermore, the term Judeo-Christian is a relatively new one, historically speaking, only being coined after the atrocities of WWII against the Jews. The concept of a shared heritage between Christians and Jews would have been alien to anyone before that time.
Also, "In God We Trust" was added to currency only after the Civil War, after the framers of the Constitution were dead. I wonder what they would say to that? Most likely, Madison and Jefferson would have opposed it as vehemently as they did the attempt to establish a church in the state of Virginia.
I also believe it to be very strange that James Madison is never quoted in the debate on religion and the state, since he is considered to be the "Father of the Constitution." But then again, his opinions are very easy to discern:
"What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on Civil Society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people."
"Nothwithstanding the general progress made within the two last centuries in favour of this branch of liberty, & the full establishment of it, in some parts of our Country, there remains in others a strong bias towards the old error, that without some sort of alliance or coalition between Gov' & Religion neither can be duly supported: Such indeed is the tendency to such a coalition, and such its corrupting influence on both the parties, that the danger cannot be too carefully guarded agst.."
"Whilst we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess and observe the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny equal freedom to those whose minds have not yet yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. If this freedom be abused, it is an offense against God, not against man: To God, therefore, not to man, must an account of it be rendered."
-- James Madison
In other words, we have gotten betrayed our heritage left to us by the founding fathers in recent history, to the detriment of both church AND state. And yet there are those who wish to continue to do so. But if Jesus were an American Christian, he wouldn't have bothered preaching, nor healing, nor doing good works. He would have put up a few signs, went home, and complained about taxes and how helping the poor and providing health care for those who can't afford it is evil. But it's okay to start elective wars for oil on the basis of lies, to take a budget surplus and turn it into the largest defecit in history, to increase poverty and try to offset it by providing more and more credit to make up for declining wages (which had a lot to do with the subprime mortgage mess). But then again, a man who had his name taken off of the ROTC list which kept him out of combat, and put into the general draft lottery at a time when the military was preparing to call all numbers is a draft dodger, while a man who couldn't even sober up enough to report for National Guard duty is a hero. And, oh yeah, by the way, this is the way the stories were reported in a country where the media is supposedly liberally biased? That's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.
I do not care whether "In God We Trust" is on our coins, because the God I believe in does not need the government to provide public service announcements for him. I do not want public prayer in schools because public prayer is anti-Christian:
"And when ye pray, ye shall not be as the hypocrites: for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have received their reward."
-- Matthew 6:5
"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
- Benjamin Franklin: in letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780
I wholeheartedly agree with Franklin. If Christianity is the true faith, it does not need God's name on monuments, it does not need the Ten Commandments in a courtroom, it does not need any more advertising than the example of its followers. To quote Ghandi:
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." The greatest danger to American Christianity in this country can be found in that statement. "WWJD?" on your bracelet doesn't make you a good Christian. Asking "WWJD?" in your heart does. Unfortunately too many of the faithful in this country are "Billboard Christians." They'd rather have Jesus on the intercom at the school and on the courthouse wall and on their clothes than have him in their hearts. It's always much easier to seek out the sins of others than it is to correct our own.
And I will leave it up to God whether the taking of quotes out of context is any different than bearing false witness. But I'm pretty sure Jesus would not like the idea of his followers concerning themselves with everyone else's sins while ignoring their own:
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." (Matthew 7:1-5 RSV)
Jesus taught about social justice and personal morality, yet the religious right (or should I say, religious wrong) still have not gotten the message, two thousand years later. I have enough problems trying to keep myself straight. I'll leave the rest of you to deal with your faith and morality on your own. I only wish I could get my acquaintances here in the land that time forgot to do the same.