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There's much to be said about the shocking display of racism exhibited by Pat Buchanan on MSNBC over the past few days, but let's take a look at the accuracy and relevance of the three of the claims he made yesterday on Rachel Maddow's show.

Buchanan made the claim while attempting to explain why 108 of 110 Supreme Court justices have been white. As you'll see, he's every bit as intellectually dishonest as he is racist.

Buchanan claimed: White men were 100% of people who died at Gettysburg and Vicksburg

In the strictest sense, this claim is not true -- at least one black solider was killed at Gettysburg. But even though the claim is nearly true, it's intellectually dishonest to claim that it is relevant.

The implicit argument offered by Buchanan is that African-Americans sat on the sidelines during the Civil War. The reality, however, is that by the end of the war, 10% of the Union army was black. 200,000 Union soldiers were black and 38,000 died. Moreover, at the onset of the war, much of the African-American population was enslaved.

Buchanan's claim is a rhetorical attempt to claim moral superiority for whites, but the flip-side of his claim undercuts its absurdity: were it not for racist whites (like Buchanan, who undoubtedly would have sided with the Confederacy), we would never have had a civil war in the first place.

Buchanan claimed: White men were close to 100% of the people who died at Normandy

The 320th Antiaircraft Barrage Balloon Battalion at Normandy
The 320th Antiaircraft Barrage Balloon Battalion at Normandy

As the above picture shows, Buchanan's claim is wrong. Not only did 2,000 African-Americans storm the beaches of Normandy, but 1.2 million blacks served in World War II. Moreover, it's important to remember that during this time, black soldiers were segregated from white. So even if Buchanan's claim were true, the reason would have been traceable to institutionalized racism, not the moral superiority of white people.

Starting with the Korean War, the U.S. government began tracking deaths by race. Those numbers also refute Buchanan's general claim: in the Korean War, whites comprised 80% of the war dead. In Vietnam, it was 86%. In the first Gulf War it was 76%. So Buchanan's 100% claim just doesn't add up.

Buchanan claimed: This has been a country built, basically, by white folks

Buchanan primarily based this assertion on the above two claims plus the obviously true claim that the authors of the Constitution and the signers of the Declaration of Independence were white men.

Aside from the intellectual dishonesty of his military claims, Buchanan ignores the massive contributions of non-whites to America's development. He offers no recognition to the slaves whose labor was essential for such a long period of time and he fails to address contributions made by other immigrant groups such as Chinese-Americans who helped build the rail system, or Latinos who are an important part of the agricultural economy today.

Perhaps the real problem with Pat Buchanan's narrative of America is that he views everything through a racial and ethnic filter. We're all in this thing together, and the last thing we need is to exacerbate the racial and ethnic divisions in America. Rejecting the anger and hatred and lies at the heart of Pat Buchanan's world view won't magically those divisions, but it sure would be a major step in the right direction.

Update (7:42PM) -- This post isn't intended to be an exhaustive refutation of Buchanan's intellectual dishonesty, but a reader reminded me of an important point that warrants this update: it would be impossible to do conduct an honest and accurate history of America without recognizing the brutal treatment of Native Americans.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:00 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Pat's just going back to his glory days (21+ / 0-)

    he was after all an architect of Nixon's southern strategy.  That day has passed Pat, in case you hadn't noticed.

    •  The glory days when you could say that stuff (10+ / 0-)

      and anyone who mattered would be white and nod.

      For Republicans, the supreme court is the means by which they thwart majority rule for a generation.

      by Inland on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:17:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Glory days that have passed him and the nation (5+ / 0-)

      behind. Let us ignore the immorality and and falseness of Mr. Buchanan's perspective for just a second.

      Let us examine the stupidity of the position for just a moment. Why would a political party chose to piss off the growing parts of the American electorate to assure the votes of a diminishing portion of what remains.  I am a middle aged white guy and I find his antics offensive and I am not alone in my demographic. Now let's examine the other, growing demographics who are going to be even less open to this crap. What are they thinking?

      Also, I think Kevin Phillips was the author of the Southern Strategy rather than Buchannan.

      "80% of Republicans want Palin to lead the Republican Party and 100% of Democrats want her to lead the Republican Party." Bill Maher

      by Dave from Oregon on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:23:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "White men were 100% of people who died at Gettys (6+ / 0-)

      burg and Vicksburg".  That conveniently ignores that fact that if the Southern men hadn't felt it was their god given right to own black men, NO ONE WOULD HAVE DIED there. The victims of the civil war died because southerners felt they had to own human beings.

      "80% of Republicans want Palin to lead the Republican Party and 100% of Democrats want her to lead the Republican Party." Bill Maher

      by Dave from Oregon on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:52:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think you are missing Buchanan's (0+ / 0-)

      overall point- 50, 80, 100 years ago it was only white men who were qualified to BE on the Supreme Court because of racism, sexism and general prejudice. This country (notwithstanding his false claims regarding the battles, which I noticed as well) was founded by white men, and there was discrimination against non-white men, as Buchanan stated, so it's only now that we are having women, blacks, Hispanics, etc. nominated (and, of course, Maddow conveniently blew off the Democrats attacks on a qualified Hispanic, Estrada).

      Buchanan is almost certainly a bit racist- I read his columns every week and while I generally agree with his opinions, his nationalistic/superiority complex does grate and also makes the rest of us conservatives look bad. However, the above debate with Maddow (which I watched in its entirety) is not about Buchanan's being racist but about Maddow's condescending viewpoint of anyone who disagrees with her, even when it's articulate (if a bit aggressive).

      •  Condescending (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sjohntucson, ER Doc

        As opposed to Beck, Hannity, Rush, and Matthews who would never THINK of overshouting their guests. At least Maddow lets her guests have their say.

        Men are forceful. Women are overriding bitches. Funny how it always works out that way. Rachel is condescending because so much that comes out of the right wing message machine is just drivel aimed at people who never seem to have thought anything through.

        There are some thoughtful Conservatives in public life, they also happen to be pretty old and grey, the generation that came to the front during the early nineties learned everything they knew by adopting the bully boy tactics of the Young Republicans as exemplified by Karl Rove. A great writer once presciently summed up the nature of public conservatism:

        "Out, out, brief candle! (Conservatism)'s but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
        Macbeth  (Act V, Scene V).

        Actually a perfect summary of the Glenn Beck Show.

        •  As a conservative (0+ / 0-)

          who thinks the first three hosts you mentioned above are aggressive, overshout their guests, and are rude at times, I think I can criticize whomever I wish. Maddow was trying to give him enough noose to let him hang, and he didn't quite fall for it.

      •  Totally agree. (0+ / 0-)

        What he said here seems pretty clear cut to me.   Demographics and discrimination led to a certain outcome on the supreme court.  what else is there to say?

        I mean, that's Rachel's question.  He answered it.

        As for the original post, it's a little inaccurate as well.  Answering Pat's point that "close to" 100% of those who died at Normandy were white with a shot of AAs presence on the beach doesnt actually address casualty figures.  It was the first waves who took the big hits.

        His larger point was simply that historically this has been a white/euro country by wide margins. Which seems pretty accurate.

    •  No dogs or Irishmen (5+ / 0-)

      The children and grandchildren of the Founders systematically discriminated against Roman Catholic Irishmen. In some quarters they were hardly considered fully human, just Paddy's or Mick's, dirty and prone to drunkeness.

      That Pat is unaware that people like him at one point in this country were not considered worthy of coming in the front door at 'respectable' people's houses is nothing short of amazing.

      Maybe we could rent him a copy of the "Gangs of New York' or something. And this isn't all ancient history, as recently as 1960 there was a national debate over whether Catholics should even be elected President.

      Pat your ancestors were not standing around Constitutional Hall wearing wigs. Mostly at that point they were still in Ireland being brutally oppressed by the English economically, socially and culturally. Those not lucky enough to emigrate to America starved to death by the millions in the Great Famine, the lucky ones who made it here were put to work digging canals.

      I guess irony is as dead as the space between Buchanan's ears.

  •  If I remember history, America's foundation of (18+ / 0-)

    agriculture was built on the backs of Blacks... correct me if I am wrong...

    Democrats keep the US from becoming Mexico, GOP keep the US from becoming Canada. I would take Canada over Mexico anytime.

    by The Simple Canadian on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:03:35 PM PDT

  •  Shocking (13+ / 0-)

    Pat's a disgusting, evil fascist pig. It's horrifying that any TV network airs his racist views.

    "I was never one of those that said Eisenhower was a Commie." -Amos Bush

    by Tom Seaview on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:03:37 PM PDT

  •  It is a sad day in 21st Century America (17+ / 0-)

    when you have to debate with a racist who is a member of the "Sons of the Confederacy" and who wants to foment another race war.

    Give every American a fair chance at the race of life - A. Lincoln and B. Obama

    by captainlaser on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:03:39 PM PDT

  •  Pat (7+ / 0-)

    won't be seen for a few days.  Then he will pop back up more racist then ever.

    He would adore a race war.

  •  Its Pat! (7+ / 0-)

    With Al Franken in office I still have an SNL fever

    Clings to The Beatles and Yankee baseball

    by Mro on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:04:07 PM PDT

  •  Even here, we tend to forget that 52% of the (19+ / 0-)

    population is female.  It is rather annoying that the focus of discrimination always seems to be on the poor white men who have been so horribly abused by minorities, completely ignoring the fact that white men are in fact in the minority.

  •  He's the UnDead (10+ / 0-)

    Nothing makes him go away.

    Not even brain death.

  •  Why even give him oxygen (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marketgeek, dotalbon

    by posting a thread about him?

  •  1950s? Try the 1850s, Rachel (10+ / 0-)

    Meet Mr.Pat Buchanan of the Know-nothing Party!

  •  Where were women? (19+ / 0-)

    Pat spoke of an America where women are invisible--no women writing the Constitution, no women dying in war, no women "building" the country.  Thus it would, of course, make sense that there have been next to no women on the Supreme Court.

    I would like to ask Pat, do we exist?  Does he think we have contributed nothing? If so, at the most basic level, in the most basic of terms, where do the men come from?

    Not all who wander are lost. J. R. R. Tolkien

    by NCJan on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:08:57 PM PDT

  •  Not that I needed any more reason not to like Pat (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    esquimaux, nonnie9999

    ... but thanks for the post.

    My dog can bark like a Congressman, fetch like an aide, beg like a press secretary, and play dead like a receptionist when the phone rings.

    by CTMET on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:09:37 PM PDT

  •  Somewhat Funny (12+ / 0-)

    If we are to believe that one race has a manifest destiny to run this portion of the continent over  another, I would have to agree.

    This is why I support the repatriation of whites to their native countries in Europe, which would give this country back to the indigenous populations of North America and strike the incredible damage of the White Stain from this great ladn once and for all.

    And I'll get a choice of Bavaria, Southern Italy or England......

    "The game's easy, Harry" - Richie Ashburn

    by jpspencer on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:09:42 PM PDT

  •  Black soldiers fought at Gettysburg (12+ / 0-)

    At least one attended the 75th reunion, July 1 to 3, 1938.  I'll see if I can find the link.

    "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

    by Navy Vet Terp on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:10:03 PM PDT

    •  Here's a link to two black veterans (13+ / 0-)

      Here, about 3/4 of the way down.  One of whom, William Barnes, had the honor to have been the oldest survior to attend the final reunion, he was 112.  The other black veteran to attend the 1938 final reunion was Richard Lilley, age 95.

      "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

      by Navy Vet Terp on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:18:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And it was black "Buffalo soldiers" (15+ / 0-)

        who took San Juan Hill, although Teddy Roosevelt and his Rough Riders, who got there second, took all the credit.

        The Buffalo soldiers were led by General Joe Wheeler, a Confederate cavalry general, the youngest general in the Confederate army, who after Reconstruction was elected to Congress but who resigned to be second in command of the Army's invasion of Cuba.  As the Spanish began to run, General Wheeler called out to the black soldiers, "Come on boys, we got those goddam Yankees on the run!"

        "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

        by Navy Vet Terp on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:32:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not to mention the Tuskeegee Airmen and the WASPS (0+ / 0-)

          The Tuskeegee Airmen were some of the best fighter pilots in WW II. They had to fight the enemy and discrimination at the same time.

          The women of the WASPS ferried combat-ready aircraft all over the world for the Allies in some of the filthiest weather imaginable.

          Then there's the WAVES, WAAFS, etc.

          I guess they don't count in his world.

          "...Reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." Richard Feynman

          by QuestionAuthority on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 05:05:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Pat was talking about his side (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sjohntucson

      at Gettysburg, you know the ones who lost. There weren't any blacks fighting on their side. Just as there weren't any blacks or Jews fighting on Pat's side in Normandy.

      The FOX is a common carrier of rabies, a virus that leaves its victims foaming at the mouth and causes paranoia and hallucinations.

      by Calouste on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 02:50:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is why (10+ / 0-)

    It has really pissed me off to see some of the more uninformed types on the left praising this well-dressed klansman in the past five years.

    Buchanan is in no position to comment on anything relating to World War 2 either considering that if it was up to him the US would have probably been an axis power. That scumbag should shut the fuck up about anything relating to the noble struggle against fascism.

  •  Buchanan spews his hate on MSNBC with impunity (10+ / 0-)

    I do not know why they tolerate his commentary on their network. They actually seem to relish it and rather than cut back on his appearances after his latest spew of hatred, they increased his appearances. All I can say is keep on linking him to the Republican Hater Party.

  •  Well pat's not an intellectual same for same (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nonnie9999, dotalbon

    Limbaugh. They generate the Right Wing Swill force fed to the willingly blind masses.

    Dear GOP&Conservatives If all you have to offer are Cliches and Hyperbole then STFU. Thanks XOXOXO

    by JML9999 on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:10:54 PM PDT

  •  This insight... (5+ / 0-)

    We're all in this thing together, and the last thing we need is to exacerbate the racial and ethnic divisions in America. Rejecting the anger and hatred and lies at the heart of Pat Buchanan's world view won't magically (heal) those divisions, but it sure would be a major step in the right direction.

    is what it's all about.  Buchanan doesn't get it and he never will.

    It's too bad.  I almost feel sorry for Pat.  ALMOST.

    http://www.thehamandlegsshow.com

  •  That particular frame of video of Buchanan is (9+ / 0-)

    really unflattering.  Oh.  Wait.  He always looks like he ate way too much cheese!

    We're sorry, this sig line is temporarily out of whack. Replacement whack is on order.

    by bherner on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:11:20 PM PDT

  •  But racism isn't based on facts (13+ / 0-)

    I once had an uncle of mine tell me that "the blacks" aren't really humans, that they're a species of monkeys.  He also opined as to this being the reason they had no souls.  He was serious.  

    Maybe the reason Uncle Pat believes the 100% white people myth is because he also believes African-Americans aren't really people.  

    Honestly it wouldn't surprise me.

  •  For pete's sake... (12+ / 0-)

    Someone needs to explain to Pat Buchanan that a huge part of the culture that most of the world thinks of as "American" is actually Black American in origin: Jazz, Rock and Roll, R&B, lots of fashion, lots of popular sports traditions, lots of car styling, "cool" as a word and concept, Hip Hop, "jamming", etc etc etc...

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand Russell

    by mftalbot on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:12:09 PM PDT

  •  One of the reasons Pat (8+ / 0-)

    keep talking about race is that we keep asking him about it. Next time, ask him about kitty litter.

    In all seriousness, Pat is symptomatic of the race problem in this country. Even if Pat's assertions were correct, they are not relevant to the question at hand. My advice is that he talks about something else, because he not not helping race relations or the Republican Party to grow.

    "you are thusly a pro forma socialist; whether you like it or not. logic dictates this"

    by Casual Wednesday on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:13:08 PM PDT

  •  Magically those divisions (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon

    Did you accidentally a word?

    The whole word?

    Economic Left/Right: -7.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.00

    by jvance on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:14:22 PM PDT

  •  Edmund S. Morgan is one of the best (9+ / 0-)

    historians the US has ever produced.  In 1975 he wrote American Slavery, American Freedom, a highly readable book which demonstrates just how directly slaveowning was related to the development of the democratic ideals on which this nation was founded.

    Morgan is about as close to mainstream as you can get in the historical profession.  There's no one I've heard of who questions his thesis in the slightest.

    Buchanan is ignorant.  Pure and simple.

    Richard "The Dick" Cheney: screwing America since 1969

    by litho on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:14:38 PM PDT

  •  African Americans have certainly been (6+ / 0-)

    greatly exploited in US history. However, it is important to remember the contributions of other exploited minorities as well.

    The Pilgrims would have starved to death if the Indians/Native Americans hadn't showed them how to plant corn. Their efforts were certainly treated shabbily. They came fairly close to being exterminated. Every treaty they ever entered was broken when it became convenient for white Americans.

    Asian Americans on the west coast were treated in a manner very similar to African Americans. The only thing lacking was formal slavery.

    •  In every case, whites exploited them (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      theran, Morgana, defluxion10, jayden, SoCaliana

      In the Indians' case, it was like, "Thanks for your help, suckers. Now get off our land before we use you for target practice. Oh, but before you go, take these smallpox infested blankets as a parting gift."

    •  Not only corn (maize) but... (0+ / 0-)

      these crops which are the foundation of US agriculture:

      Tomatoes
      Potatoes
      Squash (including Pumpkin)
      String Beans
      Bell and Chili Peppers
      Chocolate (Cocoa)
      Tobacco
      Cotton (the commercial strain)
      Sunflower seeds
      Peanuts
      etc.

      Imagine your produce department without these items bequeathed to us by the First Inhabitants.

      Let the pastors, rabbis and mullahs mutter their mumbo-jumbo in private and leave the rest of us alone.

      by detler on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 09:52:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  To put it in terms Americans can understand... (0+ / 0-)

        Without Native American contributions to agriculture there would be no

        Potato Chips
        Corn Chips
        Pizza
        Tacos
        Salsa
        Chocolate bars (i.e. candy)
        Peanut Butter
        Coca Cola
        Pepsi Cola
        Ketchup

        America would not be the same!

        Let the pastors, rabbis and mullahs mutter their mumbo-jumbo in private and leave the rest of us alone.

        by detler on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 09:58:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Pat's yearning for the version..... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mungley, sable, Mother of Zeus, Egalitare

    ....he learned in school in the 50s.  It was taught as "history" then, but it was never the truth.  

    That's what Rachel was getting at when she said he dated himself, and that's his frustration that we now teach something closer to what actually happened.  He who controls the past controls the future, no?

  •  You know, most of dead at Gettysburg were rebels. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    defluxion10, mungley, Ex Con, SoCaliana

    But Pat still says that the white race naturally owned our institutions because of the fact that so many whites died to destroy those same institutions?

    Don't understand.

    For Republicans, the supreme court is the means by which they thwart majority rule for a generation.

    by Inland on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:15:50 PM PDT

  •  Expecting facts out of Pat Buchanan (8+ / 0-)

    ... is like expecting music out of a whoopie cushion.

    These days Buchanan is essentially MSNBC's geek. Not the nerdy kind, mind you, but rather the sideshow biting-the-heads-off-of-chickens kind. MSNBC hauls him out to give a little frisson of shock to Rachel's show.

    •  Nice simile n/t (0+ / 0-)

      I wasn't sure how to spell "hypocrisy" until I started blogging about Republicans.

      by mungley on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:17:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Music out of a whoopie cusion! Superb! (0+ / 0-)

      And it's fitting for so many others of his ilk.  Sessions & Graham at the Sotomayor grilling...Whoopie Cushions in action!  Flatulence on parade.

      "Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert,Psychiatrist, at the end of Nuremberg trials.

      by 417els on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 10:26:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  excellant (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nolalily, mungley, Phil S 33

    and undeniable proof that the motive behind buchanans words is racism.

    for he is to intelligent not to know what you have pointed out.

    "but I would not be convicted by a jury of my peers. still crazy after all these years".....

    by JadeZ on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:16:30 PM PDT

  •  Forget the 1950s, Pat's stuck in 1850. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, sable

    Or earlier. Frankly, he'd probably be thrilled if we went back to the standards of only having white male property owners voting.

  •  It Screams "Entitlement" (13+ / 0-)

    Pat is a white man, he feels entitled.

    I bet the thought of a black man and his family living in the Whitehouse and not being servants drives him up the fucking wall.

    Pat Buchanan is a creep in the first class.  I'm not going to give this pig snaps because he is honest in his racism either.  I'm sick of people being commended for owning up to who they are, when they are such utter losers.  He's a pig.

    Do I look like a scab? No? Then quit picking on me!

    by heavysole on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:16:36 PM PDT

    •  Party of race entitlement, not individual merit (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      heavysole, mcfly, mungley, HCKAD, m00finsan

      "My race built this country, therefore, I get the positions regardless."  

      For Republicans, the supreme court is the means by which they thwart majority rule for a generation.

      by Inland on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:19:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think Obama drove him over the edge (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      heavysole, mungley, Matt Z, dotalbon, m00finsan

      For a priviliged white bigot, the notion of a black man in the White House is just too much. Couple that with having a woman as Speaker of the House (Pat, after all, said women are not fit to compete in the world of capitalism and quipped "we ought to send these chicks back to the kitchen where they belong - which makes me wonder how the hell he stays married) and it enough to send his world crashing down. He's probably afraid the gays will take over soon too.

      I find it a pity Jesse Helms died before Obama became president. His meltdown would have made Pat's look mild.

    •  DITTO! 100%! I am convinced of it. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mungley, SoCaliana
    •  I'm a white male, but President Obama and Judge (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Visceral

      Sotomayor speak for me.
      I finally feel that I have someone who understands me and has my interests at heart in the white house.
      I think Judge Sotomayor will take my point of view into consideration when she is on the Supreme Court.

      I love Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, but President Obama repsresnts me more than they. (and I'm a middle calls, straight, white male)

      I wasn't sure how to spell "hypocrisy" until I started blogging about Republicans.

      by mungley on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:21:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  At a time when the country is clearly becoming (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon

    more diverse, you would think a political analyst would focus more on the overall strength that diversity gives us as a nation, rather than try and ignore our future by focusing on dividing this country based on the races--and not even the truth about the races.

    But that's just me.  Pat, not so much.

  •  Neighborhood bully (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon

    Pat's like the little kid who takes away his neighbor's bat and ball and then tells him he can't play baseball because he doesn't have any equipment to contribute.

    Not all who wander are lost. J. R. R. Tolkien

    by NCJan on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:17:50 PM PDT

    •  And Rachel too often plays the enabler (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nolalily, HCKAD, the girl

      She's like the playground monitor who hears bullying going on and says "Now, now, play nicely" instead of taking the bully aside and telling him if he doesn't cut it out, he's expelled, period.

      Buchanan needs to be called out for the racist, sexist pig he is. Who's going to do that to his face?

      I always think reform is just around the corner -- until I overhear the people standing next to me on the streetcar. (Ray Stannard Baker, 1905).

      by dotalbon on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:35:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly right. (0+ / 0-)

        Old people will be old people.

        You hit the nail on the head of exactly why this has gotten so deep under my skin with her.

        That's exactly it. Thank you.

        Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

        by the girl on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:52:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  She's allowing the mashed up jackass the platform (0+ / 0-)

        to make a damned fool of himself.  His head is full of PUSS! Everything he and a many others (his peer's) says...is a derivative of infection... Sadly.

        •  Think you mean 'PUS'. (0+ / 0-)

          'PUSS' is obviously a high priority with the goopers, as we see revealed on a weekly basis these days... (unless Gawd changes them like he's going to change Sanford, of course).

          "Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert,Psychiatrist, at the end of Nuremberg trials.

          by 417els on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 10:33:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Conservative selective history (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    417els, JeffW, dotalbon

    sits on the same shelf as conservative selective science and conservative selective economics.

    That's the problem with faith based politics.
    "If something feels good to your belief system then it must be true."

    If cats could blog.... they wouldn't.

    by crystal eyes on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:17:55 PM PDT

  •  I will not watch MSNBC as long as he's with them. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mcfly, HCKAD, dotalbon, the girl

    They need to ditch this loser ASAP.   I simply will not watch MSNBC as long as Buchanan is employed by them.   I'm sure it will be a one-man boycott, but I'm going to stick to it.  

    One thing very disappointing about the whole segment is how Maddow never did correct these idiotic statements by him, and a couple of times allowed him to talk over her.  

    It's her show, right?   She should take control of it.  

    "Give me a water board, Dick Cheney, and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders." -Jesse Ventura

    by Beelzebud on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:18:45 PM PDT

    •  I think she did take control of it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dotalbon

      I think she made him look more than slightly mad.  And I don't mean angry.

      Not all who wander are lost. J. R. R. Tolkien

      by NCJan on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:29:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I just don't see that in the interview. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JanF, the girl

        She made a couple of good points, but he talked right over her.   Seriously, watch it again, and tell me if you think Buchanan even heard what she said.

        "Give me a water board, Dick Cheney, and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders." -Jesse Ventura

        by Beelzebud on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:40:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  She let him hang himself. (0+ / 0-)

        Maddow did a great job, using her own unique style.

        I would have yelled at the fuckhead and called him every kind of jerk he really is. But that wouldn't have accomplished anything. Neither would have snide goofery like Colbert or Stewart, much as I love those guys.

        No, what Buchanan needed was someone to just listen respectfully-- but not passively-- and encourage him to run on and dig himself in deeper.

        She set him up. Skillfully. The guy is a complete dickbag, and he's done with now.

    •  I agree 100 percent (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beelzebud, mcfly

      It's not like she didn't know what he would say - he said it less than 24 hours earlier with Tweety, he WROTE IT DOWN for cripes sake.

      What was her big comeback?

      You're dating yourself?

      I couldn't believe it and I haven't been able to look at her since.

      If she was taking the leap to have him on, there should have been a purpose.

      Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

      by the girl on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:46:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Stick a fork in him (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sable, JeffW, dotalbon, SoCaliana

    Uncle Pat is done.

  •  Mexican Braceros (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sable, dotalbon, m00finsan, SoCaliana

    helped feed America during WWII. Of course the only thanks they got was Operation Wetback which deported thousands of US citizens.

  •  And he fails to acknowledge (13+ / 0-)

    that the reason more non-whites and women didn't participate in the construction of the foundng documents and founding government of the United States is that the white men wouldn't allow them to.

          Just my two cents,
               Heather

    Planning a March for Accountability

    by Chacounne on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:19:44 PM PDT

    •  Exactly. But that counts for naught to Pat. /nt (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sable, dotalbon
    •  It's like a music teacher I had in college (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DrReason, Matt Z, sable, m00finsan, SoCaliana

      a LONG time ago (thank heaven) who claimed that women couldn't write serious music.  "Where are the women composers?"    he asked rhetorically.

      Well, Fanny Mendelssohn was a serious composer and a very good one.  Her piano trios are especially lovely. She stopped writing music, though, to push her brother Felix's career forward.   Clara Schumann?  A very well known pianist,  and would probably have written more (she loved to compose) if she hadn't had to take care of her composer husband Robert as he descended into syphilitic madness.

      Maybe we'd hear more from gifted women in every walk of life if THEY had family members willing to sacrifice for their sake.  

      I always think reform is just around the corner -- until I overhear the people standing next to me on the streetcar. (Ray Stannard Baker, 1905).

      by dotalbon on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:30:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  For me it was a drafting teacher (0+ / 0-)

        I was one of the first two girls in drafting class in high school.  The teacher took us aside and told us that girls shouldn't be in his class, drafting was a male profession and we wouldn't get more than a 'C' from him.  We didn't.

        Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If you're alive, it isn't.

        by EdgedInBlue on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:49:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's a seamless garment of bigotry. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dotalbon, SoCaliana

      I'm sure that Pat would explain their absence, much as the way he explained their more recent absence, with some crap about how white men built the country up to 1789.  It's an endless justification, where exclusion is justified by exclusion, and where the minorities making the top is poo poohed as affirmative aciton, and where the white rising to the top is the natural order of things.

      For Republicans, the supreme court is the means by which they thwart majority rule for a generation.

      by Inland on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:31:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Crispus Attucks (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    417els, Matt Z, sable, dotalbon

    As has been often noted, the first to die for the new republic was Crispus Attucks, if we're lucky, Buchanon will be the last ignorant bigot to die in the not so new republic.

  •  Missing the best (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skywaker9, dotalbon, m00finsan

    refutation of Buchanan's last point, the exclusive white marvelousness of the Founding Fathers.

    Indeed, all white men.  So, women should not serve on the Supreme Court?  Be president?

    And not just any old kind of white man.  Anglos.  so tough, Scalia and Alito.  Turn of the century immigrant stock need not apply.

    Just how very very small do the Rs want to make their party?

  •  What is more annoying than Pat is the obvious (7+ / 0-)

    affection he engenders in Chris Matthews, Chuck Todd, Rachael and the MSNBC mainstream.  They act like he is the crazy uncle they all love--he probably reminds them of their family who probably spew that white supremacy when ever there are no people of color present.

    •  I agree (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z, HCKAD, dotalbon, the girl, m00finsan

      with you.This pretense by Maddow & other corporate tools that somehow they are offering an "invaluable" discussion is bogus but moreover disgusting.You won't find Maddow bringing David Duke on to discuss race.The only thing Buchanan has over Duke is Buchanan sits next to minorites when he appears on TV.I thought Maddow was better than that.

      •  Political shows are essentially pro wrestling (0+ / 0-)

        You have the Good Guys and the Bad Guys, and they engage in highly ritualized combat designed to throw red meat to the fans ... but also designed to never, ever end.

        On MSNBC Rachel is Hulk Hogan and Pat is the Iron Sheik. The Hulkster will throw the Sheik around the ring a few times and claim victory, and the cheering viewer is never in doubt about who's Good and who's Bad.

        But even though Hogan is the star of the show, by the same token the Sheik can never be permanently defeated. Without him there would be no show. So Hulk Hogan always goes a little easy on the Sheik, to keep him around for the next bout. Hence why everyone goes easy on Buchanan.

        (Come to think of it, professional wrestling is actually more intellectually challenging than TV news, since the viewer has to come to grips with the occasional everything-you-know-is-wrong moment of a face turn. But everyone in the TV sticks in the same role forever. What I wouldn't give to suddenly hear George Will come out in favor of socialized medicine, and challenge David Broder to a mano-a-mano cage match!)

  •  Built basically by white folks (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon, SoCaliana

    Because AAs and other minorities were there to do the sh-t work and were excluded from power.

    "Polls are like crack, political activists know they're bad for them but they read them anyways."-Unknown

    by skywaker9 on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:22:42 PM PDT

  •  What was (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon, ShowMeMoBlue

    disgusting was Maddow offering the racists Buchanan a platform to continue his version of history.We all know what the racists was going to say.Puhleeeze! Maddow ought to be ashamed.

  •  I can imagine Pat saying the same thing about (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon

    women.

    He is truly a despicable man, and a monster in every sense of the word. As well, it simply goes to show that at the end of the day MSNBC is only a business, and it goes where the money leads it. Any sensibility seen on MSNBC is entirely the product of those that display it.

    Man is simply a monkey with an attitude.

    by rbutters on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:25:54 PM PDT

  •  While this is all true... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mcfly, royce, rbutters, dotalbon

    I don't think this crowd is the one that needs reinforcement...

    What can we do to get this message to people like Pat Buchanan who actually believe this nonsense?  And if they want to believe it in the face of overwhelming evidence, we should spend our time on more critical issues.

    I think MSNBC is perfectly aware that Buchanan is a racist twit.  They still choose to pay him.  Maybe they should be the group you, or we, are directing our ire.

    Just a thought...

    "Republicans drove the country into a ditch and now they are complaining about the cost of the tow truck"-Jim Cornette

    by justmy2 on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:26:00 PM PDT

    •  I agree, we need to remember (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dotalbon, m00finsan, moonpal

      that MSNBC is NOT KO and Maddow. MSNBC is a shark in the same way that Fox News is: it goes where the blood (money) is.

      We are fortunate to have some voices of reason hosted by MSNBC, but we can't forget the darker shades of reality on network television.

      Man is simply a monkey with an attitude.

      by rbutters on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:30:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Having Done a Summer Missionary Stint in a KY (0+ / 0-)

      holler in the mid 60's, I can tell you a lot of things we can do to drive them farther into the arms of the Buchanans.

      Basically, pretty much everything we do talking and organizing among ourselves.

      This is one of our biggest challenges. When you toss in the fundamentalists, it's in some ways more daunting than what West Germany faced trying to integrate its formerly Communist eastern half.

      I think the practical approach is to ignore that population and go for the persuadable moderates they prey on, people who are not at this point moral opponents of reason and science.

      Suck up the "food" source for the whacko movements and let the hard core of them seal their own fate.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:37:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  how do you identify the moderates... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cckids

        I think the folks that have to do that job are the Meghan McCain'sand Kathleen Parker's of the world...

        Unprompted, McCain rails against the man her father's presidential campaign touted as an American everyman and made a showpiece in the weeks before the election. "Joe the Plumber -- you can quote me -- is a dumbass. He should stick to plumbing."

        I am starting to like Meghan...she may be a bit lost, but she is clearly not BATS***T INSANE!!!

        "Republicans drove the country into a ditch and now they are complaining about the cost of the tow truck"-Jim Cornette

        by justmy2 on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:49:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  you win the thread (0+ / 0-)

      I am not a "cable news" consumer, but it is pretty clear  that blog readers and other politically engaged liberals are a substantial part of MSNBC's audience.  They (we) should let MSNBC know that having Republican pundits is one thing, but a career unapologetic race-baiter like Pitchfork Pat is unacceptable.

      I judge wisely, as if nothing ever surprise me

      by mcfly on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:59:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Pat the anachronism (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon

    and ironically he fails to see the more he spouts his BS the more it moves the nation from the F-d up way it was to the way it should be.

    Interestingly, the Republican party has bought his 1992 'culture wars' hook, line and sinker - and look where it has taken them.

    Bye Pat, and thanks for that Nixon thing you did.

  •  Uh, Pat, the U.S. Capitol itself was built ... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Big Nit Attack, sable, dotalbon, m00finsan

    in part by African-Americans slaves. And, of course, the building has been added onto, rebuilt and restored dozens of times over the years with thousands of workers drawn from many racial and ethnic backgrounds. OMG -- there were probably gay men and lesbian women involved as well. Oh, the humanity! There were Muslims and Christians and Jews, oh my. Atheists no doubt played a part as well. Smart folks and stupid ones. Liberals and conservatives. Whigs, No Nothings, Democrats and Republicans. That's why the Capitol is such a cool building -- it is so much like the country itself. We all are still building it. Good lord, Pat, crawl back under a rock.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. -- Mark Twain ... or was it Groucho?

    by Christian Wright on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:26:12 PM PDT

  •  I'd say this is it for Pat (4+ / 0-)

    But he's said worse before, like in 1992:

    Just one of four parts btw.

    "Polls are like crack, political activists know they're bad for them but they read them anyways."-Unknown

    by skywaker9 on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:26:18 PM PDT

  •  America Was 20% Black in 1775 Which is Why Many (6+ / 0-)

    of those white men had the time to flit around making Declarations. Black people were doing the heavy lifting and other labor for a great many of them, and that means the fruits of their labor were flowing freely into the entire economy except for the cost of their dog food and security expenses.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:27:41 PM PDT

  •  I've known Pat..... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon, Kelvin Kean

    Since the 1960s -- he's a nice guy, can be a good dinner companion, but he is one sadly bigoted, often ignorant old cuss, who is long long over due to put out to pasture. I knew him in St. Louis where he was an arch Roman Catholic conservative, working for a Jewish conservative (Newhouse); I mean the guy was steeped in it.  But he's old now, tone deaf and his head has turned to stone.
    The only merciful thing to do is put him out with the other retired mules. I hate to see him making even more of an ass of himself than is usual!
    Jim
    santa fe

    •  Congenial? Maybe. Nice guy? I don't (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SoCaliana

      think so:

      Chickenhawk draft-dodger.

      DUI and assaulted an officer.

      Professional liar for Richard Nixon.

      Racist.

      Where's that nice come into play?

      "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

      by bobdevo on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:31:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Pat's Normandy comment . . . (5+ / 0-)

    coming as it does from a chickenshit draft-dodger who sat out Nam with a booboo on his knee and writes books praising Hitler is more than a little ironic.

    "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

    by bobdevo on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:28:13 PM PDT

    •  Blacks at Normandy... (6+ / 0-)

      Fuck you, Buchanan, you draft-dodging asshole.

      My (white) Dad  was there and told me about the bravery of the black GIs and their barrage balloon mission at Normandy. From their we site:

      "One man in the 320th distinguished himself above many others that day. Corporal Waverly B. Woodson, Jr. was still a second-class citizen in terms of the rights he enjoyed as an African-American citizen of the United States. His diminished social and political status in the 1940s America was not reflected by his conduct in action. Serving as a medical corpsman with the 320th Barrage Balloon Battalion, Woodson rode an LST into Omaha Beach and suffered a shrapnel wound when the vessel struck a mine as it approached the landing site. Disembarking while under continuous mortar and machine gun fire, Woodson assisted in establishing an aid station on the beach and remained on continuous duty in treating casualties for the next 18 hours. He then assisted in retrieving and reviving three soldiers who had nearly drowned while leaving a landing craft which had slipped its anchor and drifted into deep water. Woodson was then hospitalized for treatment of the wound he had received the previous day. He was one of the over one million black GIs and WACs who loyally served in the armed forces in defense of their country during World War II."

      •  How many white Gis survived because a wise... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DrReason, bobdevo, SoCaliana

        ...black corpsman risked his ass to do the Normandy mission.

      •  and Blacks back from WWII... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bobdevo, Pam from Calif, Matt Z

        It's doubly sickening to read stories about Black GI's being mistreated upon returning to the US. Tuskegee airmen were told they could sweep hangars. Even German POWs were treated better. Pathetic. At least one soldier was killed for refusing to get to the back of the bus when the bus arrived at the Mason-Dixon line.

        A big "fuck you" to Pat Buchanan, from a white guy.

        •  My granddaddy was in the (5+ / 0-)

          Army Air Corps in WWII.  He went in a devout Christian and came out a chainsmoker and an alcohol drinker.  He died of Emphysema when I was just 22 years old, after a long battle with it.  

          I always asked him, please, granddad, tell me what happened in the war?  He always said, no, I won't tell you what I suffered.  I said, granddaddy, why do you smoke and drink so much?  He said, To Forget.  That's all he ever said.

          I asked my grandmother, what is wrong with granddad? She said, when he came back from the war he was different, and he never was himself ever again.

          So, you know what?  Fuck you, Pat!  My grandfather died for this country.  And he was black and american indian, not white.  And YOU are a FUCK!

          That is all.

  •  the chinese people who built the railroads (n/t) (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pam from Calif, dotalbon, SoCaliana

    "Your victory has demonstrated that no person anywhere in the world should not dare to dream of wanting to change the world for a better place." -- Mandela

    by agoldnyc on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:28:19 PM PDT

  •  Human being -- fail (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, dotalbon, m00finsan

    What a pathetic excuse for a human.  Isn't there some alien race that can come down and claim him?  

    The irony of it all is that Washington DC was built mostly by black labor.  The Southwest was built by Native American and Latino people-power.

    Not that many here don't think similarly, but what does Buchanan think -- that there's someone somewhere with a clicker counting the ethnic race of people?  Is there a magic number that is necessary for a people to enjoy America?

    Buchanan is what, Irish?  OK, what did the Irish build?  So, shall we send Buchanan back to Ireland until we have a section of America built by them?

    Please, oh please, Mr. Mxyzptlk, take Buchanan back with you!

    What separates us, divides us, and diminishes the human spirit.

    by equern on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:29:07 PM PDT

  •  I'm waiting for the day Laurance O'Donnell utters (4+ / 0-)

    one of the 7 deadly words and tells Pat to "Fuck off" or, perhaps, "you're full of shit!"

  •  This is NOT a headline from "The Onion"... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon

    (Pat... we're all the same species, you moron! Although maybe we should stop claiming you!!)

    Anyway... without further adieu:

    Humans First Got Crabs From Gorillas; Insist It's Not What It Looks Like

    This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

    by Snud on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:30:46 PM PDT

  •  Let's assume (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    just for the sake of argument, that white men built the republic.

    Has he looked at the Army that is prosecuting his precious Iraq War?

    Pat Buchanan is a misanthrope.

    "Even in the valley of the shadow of death, two and two do not make six." Leo Tolstoy

    by Miss Pip on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:31:15 PM PDT

  •  Does he really think he can get back to 90%? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon

    He seems to long for the days when "whites" were 90% of the country.

    Is he just throwing out garbage because it keeps him in a job by being controversial or does he really want the country to return to those days?

    If he wants that he is a scary guy. If he just wants to be controversial, we can get him off our TV by ignoring him.

    "If you can't afford a boat, and are standing tiptoe in the water, the rising tide goes up your nose." -- Barney Frank

    by JanF on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:32:05 PM PDT

  •  I don't know (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon

    who Pat's audience is.  He is an outdated, old white man who is afraid of change.  He certainly shouldn't be given an outlet to spew his hatred.  

    •  You answered your own question... (0+ / 0-)

      Pat's audience are outdated old white men who are afraid of change.  I will not connect the dots! ;)

      Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If you're alive, it isn't.

      by EdgedInBlue on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:56:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  not true (0+ / 0-)

        i have been in no less than six discussions in the last two days where others (young white men) have asserted these same things (although they may have been parroting) and then attempted to tell me that there is no such thing as white privilege.

        it does everyone a disservice to pretend that this is a dying breed of racism.

        Tim Wise has a formulation in his latest book, Between Barack and a Hard Place, where he discusses Racism 1.0 and Racism 2.0.  Racism 1.0 is the Strom Thurmond school.  2.0 creates Racial Exceptionalism; Obama is great because he isn't like all the other black people.  

        Pat is merely a dot on the continuum.  To limit his remarks to "old white men" is to ignore a systemic fact of racism that is still very much a part of our day to day interactions.  

  •  Truth be told, I don't even think (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon

    Buchanan even believes this shit.  He's like a clown and this is his shtick, and he knows it will be rewarded with more TV commentary gigs, so he keeps at it.

    I wish MSNBC would just not renew his contract.  He adds absolutely nothing.  

    The GNOP: "We take the bi out of bi-partisanship"

    by Mother of Zeus on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:32:58 PM PDT

  •  Pat is right about Normandy (4+ / 0-)

    100% of Normandy Casualties from Buchanan's side were white

  •  Intellectual dishonesty (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RickD, fhcec, dotalbon

    is giving him the benefit of the doubt. I think he is willfully ignorant and systematically ignores facts that don't jibe with his belief in what reality should be. He wants this to be a white man's country because like most if not all racists he needs this to be white man's country because that is the only way he can have some deep sense of purpose and meaning.

    "I know that you cannot live on hope alone, but without it, life is not worth living." Harvey Milk

    by Sansouci on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:34:48 PM PDT

  •  Lawrence Odonnel called him msnbcs crazy uncle (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotalbon, m00finsan

    on fridays fill in for chris matthews on hardball. It was pretty funny.

  •  The only credit that (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pam from Calif, royce, SoCaliana

    can be given to the racist is that there have been so many diaries and comments highlighting the contributions of African Americans, Latinos and other immigrant groups throughout our history.  He has been an impetus for a great history lesson here.  So, from this old white mongrel, thanks, Pat -- your bullshite has educated me beyond my wildest dreams.

  •  Buchanan... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, Amayi, SoCaliana

    ...he's dim, Jed!

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:36:06 PM PDT

  •  This is just another fail for Rachel (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    who not only allowed an encore for his racism, but put a guest on who is clueless and couldn't back up his claims with fact.

    I think she'd be troll-rated here for that.

    I just can't justify it, as much as I'd like to. I haven't watched her show since, and I'm sad about that.

    Pat's a lost cause. Get him off the air. But the loss of my respect for Rachel is what I'm upset about.

    I lost Walter Cronkite and Rachel Maddow in the same week. There is little hope for true journalism and that's what has me really upset. Rachel stooped down to the rest of the crowd, and didn't raise them up to her level.

    Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

    by the girl on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:37:38 PM PDT

    •  She thinks she can control him. She is wrong. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nolalily, Matt Z, HCKAD, the girl, ShowMeMoBlue

      I will not boycott her but I will not watch her show when she has him as a guest.

      You don't give someone like that a forum anywhere.

      "If you can't afford a boat, and are standing tiptoe in the water, the rising tide goes up your nose." -- Barney Frank

      by JanF on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:45:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I am with (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JanF, Matt Z, the girl, ShowMeMoBlue

      you.Maddow knows full well what Buchanan is about & to pretend that he was going to offer some invaluable insight was disgusting.

    •  I sincerely doubt that Rachel Maddow has (0+ / 0-)

      the final say on here guests.  Input, maybe.  Ultimate control?  Not likely.

      But, when push comes to shove, she does what her superiors at NBC tell her to do, or she resigns and gives up her pulpit.  Those are her two options.

      In fact, I can't think of anyone on cable, except maybe on FOX, who would have that kind of control of their own show.  Nobody on cable would ever have the kind of viewership numbers to be in a position to dictate.  FOX, OTOH, would give a Hannity or an O, Really? anything they ask for since they are cult heroes to wingnuts; more dangerous to cross them.

      •  Actually Rachel relishes having him on (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Matt Z, the girl

        She touted it on the show the night before. In one of the many articles written about her when her show debuted, there was a discussion about her relationship with him. She likes to go head to head with him. I think that in this case she made a mistake. She forgot that liberals can't win shouting contests with bigots because we tend to not want to talk over people and we believe that people are reasonable.

        I think she has a lot of control over who comes on her show.

        "If you can't afford a boat, and are standing tiptoe in the water, the rising tide goes up your nose." -- Barney Frank

        by JanF on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:07:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If her name is on the show (0+ / 0-)

          she has a lot of power. She's no dummy, and she wouldn't hand over her NAME without mucho control.

          Hardball and Countdown no, but RACHEL MADDOW, yes, mucho power over what goes on her show under her name.

          Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

          by the girl on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:21:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No more Rachel for me (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            the girl

            There is nothing endearing or cute about calling him Uncle Pat either. I even sent Rachel an email asking her why she keeps having him on the show.  Ratings maybe? There are petitions out there to get offensive Pat Buchanan fired from MSNBC, Facebook members also has started a call for Pat Buchanan to be fired from MSNBC.
            Bottom line: MSNBC condones Racism on the air and in its workplace, and its correspondents are enabling Pat Buchanan's racist platform(unless they are being forced under contract to give Pat (a co-worker/employee air time)I don't know. I wish she'd speak out against the racism, lies and mis-information about U.S.history being spread by Pat Buchanan.

            •  Sickening that a petition is needed (0+ / 0-)

              at all. MSNBC should know better. I can't turn any of the crap on anymore.

              Rachel's decision really really did some damage to my trust in any of them, especially her.

              Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

              by the girl on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 03:18:47 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  i think it very important (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JC from IA

      that people understand that these sort of thoughts and beliefs are still very much with us.  

      Would it be better to sweep such blatant racism under the rug?

      •  We know he is a racist (0+ / 0-)

        we are not sweeping it under the rug by ensuring he doesn't have a national audience, a microphone and a host who thanks him for being on her show.

        Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

        by the girl on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 08:19:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The Buchanans are immigrants. (5+ / 0-)

    The Chinese are immigrants. The Japanese are immigrants. All after the 'founding'.

    Many of the Latinos/Chicanos of the Southwest are living where there ancestors settled 100 and 200 years before the Irish came. They, like the Puerto Ricans, were absorbed into the United States, with the implicit promise that their 'equal citizenship' with the descendants of the 'founders' was part of the transaction.

    Frankly, late-comers like the Buchanans have no standing to comment on others' place in the U.S. By all rights and sense, the Latinos of the Southwest and the Brahmins of Massachusetts should be discussing a proper 'path to citizenship' for Pat and Bay and their ilk.

    Ignorance isn't exactly bliss but some things are better known when they are unknown to start with and pieced together on the way. - WineRev

    by Clem Yeobright on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:40:05 PM PDT

  •  bustin' Kenny Bustem Buchanan...again (0+ / 0-)

    The universe the internet created is like life is being televised. Bald-faced liars, dim-bulbs, and bigots are stuck out there, center-stage, faces hanging out. David Arquette made the lame statement on Fox & Friends, "Latin women are nuts ! Yeah! I want to go out to eat with him,,, not.

  •  Obviously I don't know... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JC from IA

    ,,,but I suspect that the various MSNBC hosts have no choice whether Buchanan appears on their shows. I suspect he's booked by their producers or their producers' bosses. And since he's probably kept on a retainer, they want to use him. He's their counter to O'Reilly, Hannity and Beck.

    That said, I'm getting very tired of hearing his screaming screeds. They make no sense, are offensive, and loaded with falsehoods. indeed he should be put out to pasture, like Jim from Santa Fe (mrmyster) opined. More to the point, any of us who watch MSNBC should turn off the TV when he comes on and let MSNBC know we do. It's not that we object to a conservative, but to the wholly irrational, misinformed, hate filled liar that is Pat Buchanan.  

  •  Here's the point (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JC from IA

    that kept eluding me.

    What was so marvelous about our marvelous Founding Fathers?  Why, their ideas, and specifically, the principle that all men are created equal.

    So Buchanan's ineluctable logic, that we follow in the tradition and ideals they established, by insisting that

    only white men have marvelous ideas?

    •  It's the Virgin Birth (0+ / 0-)

      for white supremacists.

      Never mind that the Founding Fathers were a lot less impressed with their creation.  And it took an Abraham Lincoln to save it from the Jacksonians- Buchanan's real predecessors.

  •  Pat 'Loose' Buchanan just says shit loudly (0+ / 0-)

    It's how he learned how to debate.  The truth of what he says is not nearly so important to him as saying it loudly enough to drown out the inconvenient facts that threaten to upset his 'argument'.

    No matter how much lipstick NBC tries to put on Pat, he will never stray from what he is:  A white supremacist and a career propagandist.

    He has risen to his natural level of incompetence long since; it is a wonder that ANYONE pays the least attention to him.

    Oh, and he's crazier than a shit-house rat, and has been so for decades.  There's that, too.

  •  Pat's America: Only for white male land-owners... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JanF, fhcec, JC from IA

    ...of "appropriate" background, religion, social status, and national origin.

    Others have mentioned this, but it bears repeating as the irony is jaw-droppingly hilarious: As a man of predominantly Irish ancestry, Pat Buchanan would not have been considered "white" until well after WW I.

    Before that, especially in the aftermath of the Irish Potato Famine, it was common throughout America to see signs in shops and restaurants that read, "No Colored" and below that: "No Irish".

    His ancestors were among the people the "white men who built America" were so very keen on kicking out as undesirables.

  •  Pat conveniently ignores lots of facts. He's (0+ / 0-)

    like lots of Republican's in that regard.  Facts are evil, just like science.

  •  Moral equivalence for the Confederate side. (0+ / 0-)

    He mentions both Gettysburg and Vicksburg and the casual listener would assume he is paying homage to the Union side, the "right" side.

    Unfortunately, the Confederate side has been given moral equivalence for more than 140 years by historians and politicians with an agenda.  The pro-Confederate propaganda is strong in the former Confederate states; go to any bookstore and look in the American history section.  The argument is often presented in "second Revolution" terms and "northern aggression" terms and as having a strictly political cause, as in the north wanted to dominate the south. Even the name given to the conflict tells bias: Confederate defenders refer to "the war between the States" or even "the war of northern aggression."

    I know of one neo-Confederate who insists- insists- the term "United States" in the Constitution is a combination of an adjective and a plural noun.  He insists it is not a two-word proper noun.  Think about it; it matters if you want to defend the right to secede.

    Notice that slavery is avoided.

    Someone should ask Pat Buchanan if the south had a right to secede from the United States.  Someone should ask him if the slave economy was immoral.  Might get some interesting answers.

    Teachers weave straw into gold and squeeze coal into diamonds.

    by algebrateacher on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:48:18 PM PDT

    •  That would be interesting! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      algebrateacher

      From algebrateacher:

      Someone should ask Pat Buchanan if the south had a right to secede from the United States.  Someone should ask him if the slave economy was immoral.  Might get some interesting answers.

      If he answers what is in his heart, I suspect that would finally lead to him being kicked of MSNBC.

      "If you can't afford a boat, and are standing tiptoe in the water, the rising tide goes up your nose." -- Barney Frank

      by JanF on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:54:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "White men were close to 100% of the people (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theran, JanF, cacamp

    who died at Normandy."

    If you're talking about the Axis, I suppose that's true.  Perhaps Buchanan was thinking of them as his side.

    •  I'm sure there were blacks, native americans, (0+ / 0-)

      Asian Americans and women of all races who WANTED to fight but the door was closed to all but white men. To refuse to acknowledge that the only ones invited to fight were white men and then use the fact that only white men fought as some sort of badge of honor is pathetic.

      You are a child of the universe; no less than the trees and the stars... Desiderata

      by byteb on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:58:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  CON RULE #1: Make it up as you go along (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JC from IA

    Great article - but Pat was following con rule #1, which is- if you are getting it handed to you in an argument , make up some nonsense that can't easily be disproven at that exact moment (see the Birthers)

  •  "Buchanan" & "intellectual" in the same sentence (0+ / 0-)

    now there's your first mistake right there

    Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.

    by TrueBlueMajority on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:49:54 PM PDT

  •  Pat Puke-Cannon sucks (0+ / 0-)

    When is MSNBC going to take that racist asshole off the air.  He's boring too.

    How about some real change?

    by noofsh on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:51:17 PM PDT

  •  the corporate overlords at MSNBC (0+ / 0-)

    have evidently decided that Buchanan serves their purpose.

    I suspect it's because they want to cut into Fox News' audience, but they don't want to alienate their shiny new liberal demographic that watches Olbermann and Maddow by giving Buchanan his own show.

    Whence this Hannity-and-Colmes style schtick where Buchanan spouts off while Maddow blandly asks him to clarify what he means.

    Media reform is the only real way to solve this problem. Even if you get rid of Buchanan, there's a thousand dirtier assholes out there waiting for their moment on camera, ready to fill his shoes the instant he goes.

    Are the people who run MSNBC deliberately trying to foment a race war? I very much doubt it, but they do understand that hatred sells, with the economy as bad as it is, and that people look for scapegoats in times like these. So the way they look at it, they're just providing a product to a certain sector of the population.

    "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

    by limpidglass on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:51:33 PM PDT

  •  I wish Georgetown University would ban him (0+ / 0-)

    from saying he graduated from there ....
    Cardinal Cook would have expelled him ... possibly excommunicated him for the racist statements he has made

    But in fairness, I read that Buchanon did take ROTC and planned to be in the military but he genuinely failed his physical ... unlike Rush, the Pig, who got a sympathetic doc to come up with some problem

    Pat B is still a creep but he wasn't a draft dodger and if we are going to complain about his 'mistaken information' let's keep our own correct ....

    We probably should run a campaign flooding MSNBC with pleas to 'retire' him

    Give your heart a real workout! Love your enemies!

    by moonbatlulu on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:52:04 PM PDT

  •  What I find interesting... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SoCaliana

    ...is few people bringing up that old saw No Irishmen Need Apply. I wonder how well Uncle Pat would square that with his sense of "entitlement".

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:53:10 PM PDT

    •  Indeed. The Irish were treated as poorly as some (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW

      blacks.  I had a case in law class where a white slave owner valued his black slave more than an Irish immigrant.  (Theory being, you have to train up a slave vs. just get another Irish immigrant off the boat.)

      And some of the brightest people in this country were Irish.  And you know they were pale, so why would "whites" discriminate against them?  There is no sense to bigotry. And Pat, of all people, knows it.

    •  that's the source of his entitlement (0+ / 0-)

      The story that the (we) Irish tell each other is that we were discriminated against as badly as anyone else, but hauled ourselves up by our bootstraps through hard work, not by claiming special rights and whining.

      If the darker skinned members of our society would just shut up and do what we did, why we would have a fair, just society.

  •  Buchanan: Nazi (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cacamp, New Earth, JC from IA, Noamjunior

    like Buchanan, who undoubtedly would have sided with the Confederacy

    Buchanan's latest book (2008), Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War, argues that America shouldn't have fought against Germany in WWII. After all, it was France's fault that Germany was forced into war, and the UK's protection of Poland that pushed Hitler into war. And if we'd let Germany keep Poland, France and most of Europe, they'd have been satisfied. If not, the Russians would have beaten them down for us. According to Buchanan, Japan attacked the US because our insistence on the UK cutting ties with Japan "insulted" Japan too much.

    See? It was all our fault. Poor Hitler and Hirohito had no choice but to defend themselves. Letting Hitler genocide the Jews, Gypsies and anyone else within reach was a small cost to allow the British Empire an imaginary chance to survive the 20th Century. Right?

    Wrong. Buchanan's a Nazi (yes, capital "N"). His appearance in the mass media is one of the prime demonstrations that our public discourse is insane and toxic. He should never be tolerated by anyone, but mocked and reviled until he cries and runs.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:53:52 PM PDT

  •  What is it that white men like to tell people of (5+ / 0-)

    color?  Oh that's right- that people of color need to let go of their bitterness.

    Well, Pat.  You closeminded white racists need to follow your own condescending advice.

    a consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions

    by electricgrendel on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:55:59 PM PDT

  •  Using the word "intellectual" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theran

    anywhere near the words "Pat Buchanon" is an oxymoron.  

    They tortured people to get false confessions to fraudulently justify our invading Iraq.

    by MufsMom on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 07:57:03 PM PDT

  •  Too many words. (0+ / 0-)

    Here's my refutation: Pat Buchanan is a racist, and that's clear for all to see.

    See? Easy.

    I can't go to the doctor.

    by VictorLaszlo on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:01:52 PM PDT

  •  Pat also forgets who besides NAs built the SW! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Morgana, SoCaliana

    Where was the oldest European settlement in what is now the US? It wasn't Jamestown. It was Santa Fe, New Mexico. Founded by Spanish soldiers, missionaries, and several mestizos and indigenous people from the Valley of Mexico (Tlaxcalans, among others).

  •  You bring up the 'brutal treatment' (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Morgana, SoCaliana

    which Native Americans did get, but they also contributed tremendously to building this country.  Our Constitution is to a large extent based on the Iriqois Confederacy, and lets not forget white people would of never lasted a winter in this country if they didn't learn how to survive from Native Americans.

    Recovering Intellectual. 12 days stupid.

    by scionkirk on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:05:52 PM PDT

  •  Pat openly says.. (0+ / 0-)

    ..that the majority of the country was white and the 10% who werent were openly discriminated against.  So he's correct that this is why you'll have a long string of white supreme court justices. Pretty simple statement of fact.

  •  Can I be in your club, Pat? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Doris in the Windy City

    Well, I'm white, but I'm just about fresh off the boat. Got a funny name, too. Not much to do with building this country, besides paying taxes, but did get naturalized during the Gulf War, despite rumors that we'd all get shipped off soon.

    Here are my Wonder Bread qualifications: my brother-in-law is descended from a guy who signed the Declaration of Independence, and I know three people descended from people who were on the Mayflower.

    How are my chances now, Pat? Oh, a few more things before you consider my request: I'm an atheist, I think you're an asshole, and I think you assholes are wrecking this country.

    P.S. Can you help me get Rachel Maddow's autograph? Damn smart, ain't she, Pat?

  •  Word to Pat... (3+ / 0-)

    If affirmative action is such a huge obstacle to white men reaching greatness, I regret like hell affirmative action did not,  somewhere along the way, sabotage the careers of assholes like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and that whole cabal of white fucks.

    Think how much better this country would be right now if the dreaded affirmative action monster had undermined the careers of these lily white pricks.

    Word to Washington D.C. politicians: Every smile you fake, every claim you stake...I'll be watching you.

    by wyvern on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:09:31 PM PDT

  •  thanks jed...we all have to keep (0+ / 0-)

    calling out this racist BS.  cannot let up.  

    Men can starve from a lack of self-realization as much as they can from a lack of bread. ~Richard Wright

    by wanton peace on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:10:40 PM PDT

  •  So if you set up a system where only (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Doris in the Windy City

    left handed people can vote, own property, be a part of government, and so on, you will quickly be able to build a nice case that the left handed are superior.

    Pat, isn't there some nice antebellum plantation you can retire to where you can drink gin and bother the servant girls?

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference.

    by blue aardvark on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:10:51 PM PDT

  •  Pat even marginalizes his own Irish ancestry (0+ / 0-)

    claiming he is not really Irish but Scots/Irish, protestants from Northern Ireland who were of Scotish origin who came to this country before the civil war and who were slave owners in Virginia. Some of these fought for the confederacy. To Pat, these are his primary ancestors, the ones who give him his identity.
    However, more recent, closer ancestors came from Catholic Ireland, were unskilled laboring class refugees from the famine, people who anyone would revere and proudly claim as family.
    And, even closer more recent members of his family come from Germany, steerage passengers who went through Ellis Island.
    Pat would prefer us to think that only the Protestant gentry from Virginia were where he really comes from.

    This is class snobbery at it most insidious. It denies reality and indicates the self esteem disorder which Pat continually displays when he starts to rant about race. He's a punk Irish jerk from Georgetown who invented a story about who he is.
    Rachel treats him like the fraud he is.

    •  Scots-Irish? Are you sure about that? (0+ / 0-)

      Buchanan is Catholic.

      Arguing with "libertarians"? check it out

      Me llamo Señor Plow!

      by MrPlow on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:34:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, but he claims he's a descendant of the (0+ / 0-)

        Scots/Irish Protestants. His grand mother is Irish Catholic but he pretty much claims he's a Buchanan because he's Scots/Irish.

        This is Pat's made up idea of noble lineage so he could compete with the Ivy League wasps he met when he got to Washington. He didn't like them treating him like a bog Irishman from Georgetown.

        Pat's a social climber with a fabricated heritage. A lot of people did it before the internet. Especially the upwardly mobile Irish.

    •  Aren't there two basic groups of Scots-Irish? (0+ / 0-)

      I.e. one, the descendants of Scottish nobles who were granted huge estates in Ulster county in the 17th century to control the local Irish, who emigrated to the southern colonies in the 17th and 18th centuries to become rich plantation owners.

      And two, the much poorer ones who never owned land or slaves and constituted the lower levels of non-slave southern society, many of whom to this day are viewed in the popular imagination (whether or not accurately) as "rednecks" and "hillbillies".

      So Buchanan is claiming descent from the former, not the latter?

      I want to see his birth certificate!

      Heh.

      And that's the way it was...

      by kovie on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:18:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right, but it would not be on the birth (0+ / 0-)

        certificate. It's so far back that it would be verifiable by a search of his genealogy. It's his story and he's sticking to it. It's in his book about himself. Who'd waste the time to do a search?

  •  Sure, 100% of the framers were white men (0+ / 0-)

    because everyone else was disenfranchised. "All men are created equal" at the time meant all white, protestant, male property owners. It took almost 200 years for the words of our Declaration to come to fruition.

    Pat Buchanan is an intellectually dishonest racist, misogynist hack. As a voice for conservatives, he is death for the Republican Party. Is there no one in that party who pays attention to demographics?

    Fools!

    Drill, baby, drill -- for negabarrels (otherwise known as energy efficiency).

    by dpwks on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:16:28 PM PDT

  •  Correct me if I am wrong but... (0+ / 0-)

    Wasn't there an all black unit that fought in the Battle of the Bulge?

    History Majors for Obama

    by StealthBlue on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:17:48 PM PDT

    •  And that took place on normandy beach? (0+ / 0-)

      That was Pat's actual statement. That close to all of the casualties on Normandy were white men (as were the losers)..it's sort of the european theater. heh.  Not really unexpected.   You'd probably be hard pressed to find a non-white american group that didnt have some representation in WWII, but the casualties will still overwhelmingly be european.  Because they were the overwhelming majority in the country.  I don't see how it's offensive.

      Demographics may be changing but the country was like that.  And he even mentions discrimination keeping the other 10% away from the bench so I dont quite get the outrage.

      He mentions demographics and discrimination.  WHat answer is he supposed to give? heh.

  •  african american slaves built the freakin capitol (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kovie, SoCaliana

    for crying out loud. He's an idiot.

    •  And the White House too (0+ / 0-)

      in an especially ironic twist. But what do you expect from a man who hasn't had a real job in his whole life? The bigger the liar, the more he's trying to hide.

      And that's the way it was...

      by kovie on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:01:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Navajo Code Talkers (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GreyHawk, cacamp, SoCaliana

     About 400 Navajo's were the famous "Code Talkers" of the War in the Pacific against the Japanese.  We white men did not truly acknowledge their huge contribution to the war until after 2000.  I imagine Pat never has.

    "Don't be encumbered by history. Go off and do something wonderful." Bob Noyce

    by Arizona Mike on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:27:14 PM PDT

  •  It's not "intellectual dishonesty", it's evil. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GreyHawk, New Earth, SoCaliana

    The man has just come out and admitted what we all knew all along: he's a fascist.  Oh, excuse me, a "monarchist" who puts democracy (read: freedom) "pretty far down there" on his preference list and who longs for a "traditionalist" christian society.    He's the guy who steered Reagan into laying  a wreath at  the Nazi SS cemetery at Bitburg, who has made a career out of taunting Jews, and who ranks as one of our most vicious homophobes.  Shouldn't surprise you that he uses the technique of the "big lie"--he's learned  well from his Austrian role model.

  •  This is such a good post (0+ / 0-)

    ...and because of that (and because of its spot on the front page) please go back through and fix the typos.  I'm not trying to be the 'diary police' or anything.  I just hate to see good work marred by typographical errors, especially when it's presented in a prominent place.

    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

    by Triscula on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:29:10 PM PDT

  •  Take Buchanan's argument to a logical extreme (0+ / 0-)

    and see if Buchanan likes where the boomerang lands. From one perspective he's correct, the political, economic, technical, commercial, scientific, literary and artistic legacy of the country is white. The first non-native settlers were white, the pioneers that conquered the frontiers were white, the farmers that tamed the land were white, those that did the fighting were not exclusively, but overwhelmingly white....they were almost all Protestants too. Buchanan flaunts his neo-medieval Roman Catholicism like William F. Buckley did, someone needs to remind him that most of those "white" people that "built" America viewed the Buchanans, with their alien theology, no differently then the slaves they whipped, or the Indians they massacred.

    Jefferson and Adams reacted in horror that the Jesuits might get into the country one day, Buchanan is quite fond of Jesuits. A 140-years ago, the prospect of a Hindu colony in South Carolina was looked upon with as much favor as persons of Buchanan's theological views. He needs to remember that.

  •  "brutal treatment of Native Americans" and more.. (0+ / 0-)

    ok, that's a good point but in talking about building the country our contributions are many also, beginning with our consul during the writing of the Constitution and our introduction of individual rights into the conciousness of your founding fathers when they were still debating the devine rights of kings and had no concept of individual liberties.

    Next we fought in the Revolutionary War, some on one side some on the other but make no mistake our warriors loomed large at the time and were valued allies. In many places we were the decisive force.

    In the Civil War the last Confederate General to surrender was Gen. Stand Watie of the Cherokee Light Horse.

    In WW1 100% of my Ponca Nation volunteered even though we were not allowed to vote until 1924.

    In WW2 an Osage General Clarance Tinker was the first Gerneral Officer killed in the war when he died fighting at Pearl Harbor.

    •  Native Americans in the Revolutionary War (0+ / 0-)

      Native Americans fought on both sides during the American Revolution. The Revolutionary War began with both sides adopting a policy of neutrality towards the Native Americans. However, their participation was inevitable, as Revolutionary War soldiers fought for control of North America, including traditional tribal lands. During the French and Indian War (1754-1763) many Native Americans sided with the British and continued that alliance during the Revolution.

      Why did so many Native Americans choose to fight alongside the British? First and foremost, the Indian nations knew that an American victory would open territory and increase the tide of settlers on traditional tribal lands. The British also had more money with which to purchase tribal loyalty through trade gifts. Finally, the British already had influential agents and traders in place among the tribes.

      Congress authorized General Washington to recruit Native Americans. He employed them for scouting and harassment operations. A party of Oneida Indians reached Valley Forge in May. Some Native Americans joined the Revolutionary forces and fought face-to-face against British soldiers, particularly in the New England regiments.

  •  Considering the Mass Genocide against the (0+ / 0-)

    Native Nations I wouldn't be bragging about the 100% things that White's and this includes the White Race from Spain and Portugal did as they stole these lands from the People who lived here in the first place.From the North Pole to the South Pole in the New World everything that Whites,Asians and Africans has built in built on the Bones of the Natives of the New World.

    •  we also "contributed" to this nation! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      defluxion10

      see my post above this one. We wern't just victims we fought and won battles in the fucking Revolutionary war before Pats ancestors found steerage and have been contributing to the USA ever since.

  •  0% of Pat Buchanan served his country (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    goatchowder, leevank

    when his country came calling, in a war that he supported and continues to support to this day. Instead, he was busy helping Dick Nixon stir up as much white racist anger as possible as part of his "Southern Strategy", to be able to beat Hunphrey.

    Oh, and over 5000 black soldiers served on the American side in the Revolutionary War (although many more served on the British side, but you can't really blame them since most of them were slaves hoping to earn their freedom).

    And that guy on the $10 bill, Alexander Hamilton, whom your party likes to claim to as one of its ideological forebearers, well, he was probably this country's first prominent abolitionist, hated slavery, and would likely have challenged you to a duel and turned you into a sieve for being the dishonest racist asshole that you are, Patrick.

    And it's pronounced Ree-Tchee, NOT Ree-Kee, you idiot!

    And that's the way it was...

    by kovie on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 08:57:57 PM PDT

  •  Jerk store! (0+ / 0-)
    There was at least one rec'd diary that praised Rachel Maddow for how tough she was with Uncle Pat, but she said nothing in response to this rant.

     

    "You don't need luck when you've got 71.4% of the population behind you."

    by Coss on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:01:30 PM PDT

  •  Not recognizing African Americans as human sort (0+ / 0-)

    of puts a damper on counting their contribution to society.

    What about the fact that Latinos built California and the rest of the West before we annexed it?  One reason California was able to attain statehood in one year (from 1849 to 1850) was that it was already a full fledged state in 1848. The SPanish had already build this society.

    Pat Buchanan is an asshole.

    Judge Sotomayor is an American woman. She is a hell of a lot smarter than Pat Buchanan. That's his real problem.

    I wasn't sure how to spell "hypocrisy" until I started blogging about Republicans.

    by mungley on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:10:45 PM PDT

  •  Oh yeah. Florida and Texas too. (0+ / 0-)

    The White men that Buchanan loves so much didn't build either of those states.

    I wasn't sure how to spell "hypocrisy" until I started blogging about Republicans.

    by mungley on Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 09:12:58 PM PDT

  •  I love a racist, so I get Rachel & Pat... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sjohntucson, GreyHawk

    I've read the diaries lamenting the racism of Buchanan and Rachel for having him on... And I come from it from a different pov.

    My father is a racist but he's also a good man, he's helped so many people in his life. We call him the big softie, b/c he's gruff and like many Latin man has a hot temper yet inside he's mush.

    My father is white Cuban and complete bigot when it comes to blacks. We almost got into a physical fight (first EVER my papi has NEVER laid a hand on me) over Obama last fall when I was like how can you be so prejudice when you've been victim of racism yourself as Latino. He was so enraged I hit a nerve, I thought he would have another heart attack...

    My sisters and I are often appalled at his comments, we cringe, we fight with him and yet we adore him, racist that he is. Quite the contradiction, I know, but when I listen to Rachel talk to Pat, I understand her. She has great affection for Pat, that comes through, she believes he's basically a GOOD person who happens to hold racist views. She think he has a good heart... maybe he does, I don't know as never met him and don't care to.

    I share this not to excuse Pat Buchanan, b/c frankly I've turned off alot of MSNBC due to most hosts there allowing his rants to go unchallenged to the degree they do.

    BUT, when Chris Matthews or Rachel Maddow take him on, I see the sad shake of their head, it's PITY.

    They obviously hold Pat in great affection, love the old coot, and shake their heads sadly at his pitiful completely out of touch rants. Pat represents a generation that simply cannot cope with minorities encroaching on their precious power structure. He's the perfect symbol of the GOP, old, white, frustrated beyond belief at losing power, lashing out and deep down knowing there time has come and gone.

    Pat is also a sexist, but he latched onto Sarah Palin so hard b/c he even said we may have seen the last white male president, so only recourse is a white FEMALE. Race trumps all with him.

    If Obama hadn't won, if GOP racial attacks on Sotomayor nomination hadn't been majority rejected, and if cabinet wasn't the MOST diverse in history, Pat's rants would piss me off big time.

    And whenever I am tempted to get really pissed off I remember the Millenials, the most tolerant generation ever. This not 1968 nor 1980 where our youth being co-opted/brainwashed/indoctrinated by the racists.

    IOW, the MORE the Pat Buchanans of the GOP of KKK froth at the mouth, the more they are motivating Millenials to vote them OUT the door in disgust. The GOP of KKK still haven't learned that lesson from election, so they are just screaming even LOUDER and NASTIER, please let them.

    It's working wonders on our youth.

  •  The Constitution was written by white people. (0+ / 0-)

    This is fairly clear from the fact that some black people only count as 3/5 of a person and that Native Americans weren't counted at all.  I don't know how, for Pat Buchanan, that can be counted as an achievement for his race.  This country was built FOR white people, not BY white people, in its early history.  I'm actually against affirmative action as well (if discrimination against non-whites is wrong, I'd say discrimination against whites is equally wrong), but "the Constitution was written 100% by white people" is an argument FOR it, not against it.

    •  actually our constitution was based on... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GreyHawk

      The US Constitution was based on the constitution of a federation of Indian tribes.  They had been in contact with Europeans for 250 years (or more than 700 if you count the Vikings' pre-Columbus incursions) and they were highly Westernized but they were still non-White.  White folk can't even take full credit for the US Constitution.

      The 3/5 of a person rule for slaves, insulting though it was, was actually the work of anti-slavery liberals.  The anti-slavery forces wanted slaves to not be counted at all, since they were not part of the political community.  The pro-slavery forces wanted slaves to be counted as 5/5 of a person, on the theory that they were just community members who don't have the right to vote but who are represented by their masters.  (This was how women were counted back then and this is how children and non-citizens are still counted today.)

      The 3/5 rule had the net effect of reducing slavers' representation in the US House and the Electoral College.

    •  John Adams & others fought that 3/5 clause (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GreyHawk

      So to be fair some of the Founder Fathers were against slavery and fought the 3/5 clause.

      John Adams actually predicted slavery would be the great moral stain on this nation and would lead to a Civil War.

      Alas, we had too few John Adams back then.

  •  Crispus Attucks (0+ / 0-)
    Most likely the first person killed by British troops in the lead up to the Revolutionary war was an escaped slave named Cripus Attucks. He was killed during the Boston Massacre. In fact he was one of the leaders of the colonists. In 1888 a Crispus Attucks monument was erected on Boston Commons.
  •  aside from the black troops: (0+ / 0-)

    There were many Asians who fought in the European theatre: Japanese-American men and women were considered trustworthy enough to fight Hitler.  I don't know if Buchanan considers Hispanics white or not, but many Hispanics fought in WWII as well.

    Maybe Buchanan was thinking of the Germans, whose army was indeed almost 100% white.  

    I haven't checked the other comments to see if anyone else mentioned this, but one of the factors which led to the post-war civil rights movement was anger over segregated trains and busses in the South (and elsewhere in the USA): there were tens of thousands of German and Italian POWs in the United States who were allowed to ride up front because they were white.  (And who were given almost all of the other privileges of whiteness as well, because they were generally not held under very tight security.)  Black soldiers, even officers, were still black and hence were given lower priority when travelling around their own homeland than their German and Italian counterparts.

  •  I'm glad I cancelled cable. (0+ / 0-)

    I've been doing more important things with my extra time than watching Pat Buchanan.  He's a longtime racist who is obsessed with hatred for affirmative action and obviously for all the people it has helped over the years.  Someone should ask him who commits most of the serious crimes and why all our assassins were white men.      

  •  "White" is an intellectually dishonest term. (0+ / 0-)

    Hmm. African-Americans come from Africa. Native Americans are indigenous to America. But "Whites" -- they must come from nowhere, as they have no cool, hyphenated name.

    I think what Pat was trying to say is that EUROPEANS built America. He's wrong of course. But why not call them what they were -- Europeans. Many of the founding fathers were English, spoke English the same way as they did in Great Britain, and studied in England or France. Pat probably wouldn't want to address that though. I bet he's an "American exceptionalist."

    •  Cause "Europe" is a dirty word in con circles? (0+ / 0-)

      On the pretzel knots your ignorance and bigotry will twist you into!

      Defend Maine's Marriage Equality. Donate.

      by Scott Wooledge on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 04:56:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The earliest settlers (0+ / 0-)

      were "European" (English, French, Dutch, Spaniards), followed by the Irish, Scots, Germans, Scandinavians, Eastern Europeans).  And they would have never made it without help from the Native Americans.  And none of this country would have been built without cheap labor, whether slave or indentured (Chinese laborers, e.g.) And on and on... We all need to get over who was here first or worked harder or "deserves" more, blah, blah, blah....  We need to pull together and work on making this country better.

      Idiots like Pat Buchanan stun us all with their lack of historical knowledge.  If you really want to be scared, just think - he is supposed to be some sort of "conservative intellectual".  Has that become an oxymoron?

      "The only thing worse than a knee-jerk liberal is a knee-pad conservative" Edward Abbey

      by Coast2Coast on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 11:56:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  it's not just abused by Pat. (0+ / 0-)

      It's abused in this very thread with people charging "white people" with indian massacres, etc.

      I guess they don't want to include hispanics or their spanish ancestors in that history so "white" is kind of flexible.  Seems like a club to beat northern europeans with when southern europeans were no better in exploiting the weak.  

      Humans are humans, always looking for an other to utilize or demonize.

  •  Not just race but class (0+ / 0-)

    This point has probably been raised upthread but to me the intellectual dishonesty of Pat Buchanan lies not just in his backhanded racism but in his use of race as a kind of distraction from the power machine inherent in the dichotomies of class and wealth in America where we see a massive gap between rich and poor, the more wealthy/affluent tending to be white and the less affluent tending to be minorities of color (and women I should add; affirmative action was designed to help women along with minorities). Whether Pat is doing this protective slight of hand consciously or not, I have no idea, but this seems to be the effect.

    It's interesting that affirmative action seeks to address inequities in two major areas that can have a positive impact on class and income, that is, education and employment.

    The framing (among conservatives and corporate newsmedia) is twisted around so that we don't focus on the income gap so much as on an insinuation of racism or reverse racism in someone like Sonia Sotomayor who has the potential to become one of our greatest -- and fairest -- Supreme Court justices.

    Pat Buchanan in his "debate" (quote unquote) with Rachel sputtered out an "angry" stream of nonsensical verbiage about aggrieved white working men when in fact he was doing a magnificent job of indirectly protecting the interests of the white wealthy class where his heart lies (no pun intended).

    I don't hold it against Rachel that she has Pat on her show. It's important to see how a dishonest intellectual thinks but only if she confronts him with the specific nature of his dishonesty -- the shoe not dropped -- and says, "Hey, Pat, not only have you got your facts wrong about Normandy -- many Blacks  fought bravely on those bloody beaches -- but it's less about race than class. Let's have that debate!"

  •  Hispanic is not a race. (0+ / 0-)

    I won't bore you with the details which most of you probably already know.  So isn't it time we got rid of these erroneous classifications and started treating everyone equally?  And that of course includes women.  

  •  OK, then (0+ / 0-)

    I guess "whitey" can just pay off the national debt, and then we can call it even a start over fresh.

  •  Jed, re: Update -> add the word "ongoing" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eloise

    Should read this way:

    "...it would be impossible to do conduct an honest and accurate history of America without recognizing the brutal, ongoing treatment of Native Americans..."

    The Abramoffesque take on Native Americans: "troglodytes"
    An NPR piece on Rape Tourism on Native lands; see also winter rabbit's expose Lawless Lands

    A corrupted government. Patriots branded as renegades. This is how we roll.

    by GreyHawk on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 12:30:05 AM PDT

  •  My FIL fought in WWII, he's from Dominican Rep (0+ / 0-)

    So, right there you are a liar, Pat.

    He seems to think that because only white men signed the Declaration of Independence that it's not SHAMEFUL that only WHITE MEN signed it.

  •  Another blatantly ignorant statement that (0+ / 0-)

    isn't shown in the clip is where he rails about affirmative action at Harvard and other universities and how AA people are undeservedly let in at the expense of smarter white people.

    I wish Rachel would have thought to counter it with all the rich white kids that get in on their family name...like W.

    World News/2059...Barack Obama day, a presidency that transformed the world in ways that no one could have seen at the time...

    by New Earth on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 12:40:37 AM PDT

  •  I've got a suggestion (0+ / 0-)

    Let Pat Buchanan tell Daniel Inouye, to his face, about how it was white Americans who made all the sacrifices in World War II.  I'll bet that Inouye, despite his 84 years and missing arm, could still take Pat Buchanan.  Let him tell it to ANY of the surviving members of the 442nd Regimental Combat Unit, an all-Japanese-American unit that became the most highly decorated unit of World War II.

    Let him tell it to the family of Doris Miller (despite the name, he was a man), the black messman who on the battleship New Jersey at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack.  Ignoring orders to save himself, he first carried his injured (white) commander to safety, and then manned a machine gun to fire at the attacking Japanese planes, and was awarded the Navy Cross, the highest decoration in the Navy, for his heroism on that terrible day.  I would say that Mr. Miller could take Pat, too, but alas, he was killed in action two years later.

    It's amazing how somebody who has never worn the uniform is such an expert on other people's lack of sacrifice.

  •  Shorter rebuttal: they didn't ALLOW anyone else! (0+ / 0-)

    What a stupid, tautalogical idiot Buchanan is.

    White men did 100% of the Declaration and the Constitution-- because they didn't allow anyone else in!

    That doesn't reflect in any way on the people who didn't participate-- women and people of color-- but it sure does make the white men (especially Buchanan) look like assholes.

    Glad to see someone bringing up the segregated forces at Normandy and the integrated forces since then.

    Look, the problem with Buchanan is he's offering a circular proof. "A" therefore "A"! Fool.

  •  "EQUAL OPPORTUNITY" BIGOTS/HYPOCRITES (0+ / 0-)

    Corporate trash use deception like "Equal Opportunity Employer" to pretend they're much better than they really are.  They deny people of color employment for not having a good credit ratings, but institutionalized racism prevented people of color from establishing a history of employment and therefore crediworthiness so it becomes a self-serving standard for corporate bigots to justify their bigotry.  It's a Catch-22 situation for people of color.
    Corporate trash also use employment agencies to do their illegal, dirty work for them and screen out people who aren't non-threatening to them.  Bigotry in the personnel office is protected, and the lie is maintained.
    The Pat Buchanans are everywhere in corpoate Amerika preaching superior morality while practicing hypocrisy.  They want to be judged by the size of their paychecks, their material possessions,  and cut of their clothes, not the content of their character.

  •  Big mistake here (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Noamjunior

    The underlying point is that Buchanan's claims, whether true or false, are irrelevant. And deliberately so: he wants to distract from the obvious history.

    To refute them as factual claims is to grant them relevance. To refute at length is to grant weight proportional to length.

    Please figure out a better way to deal with neo-racism than advertising its claims on the front page of DKos.

  •  Slavery and the Industrial Revolution in America (0+ / 0-)

    He forgot to mention that slavery provided the capital for industrial revolution in America.

    http://www.vgskole.net/...

    The industrial revolution in America By Laurie Collier Hillstrom

  •  a dying breed (0+ / 0-)

    Buchanan is the face of the old,white,conservative,racist.....he is their poster child. We are watching the death knell of this sub-human species as the demographics of the country change. The whole idea of conservatism is too maintain the status quo, even the ugly parts. How sad.

  •  White men 100% behind genocide and slavery (0+ / 0-)

    how about that Pat?

    "It's a gay witches for abortion party Flanders, you wouldn't be interested." - Homer Simpson

    by angry liberaltarian on Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 04:32:51 AM PDT

  •  Assuming Affirmative Action (0+ / 0-)

    This is a great post! It's really important that we expose the lies of people like Pat Buchanan who ignore all of the influence of non-whites in the history of the United States.

    One thing I have found really offensive about the way people such as Buchanan have tackled the Sotomayor nomination is the assumption they have made that this was obviously an affirmative action choice. Buchanan talked about that a lot in the interview with Rachel Maddow and a lot of conservatives have brought up the fact that the short list was all women as evidence that this was about affirmative action. I note that none of these people who have made the same complaints if the short were all men and this really shows the underlying sexism and racism in their arguments. It is just offensive and disgusting to assume that because Obama picked a Latina woman that it was obviously affirmative action and really shows how desperate these people are to bring back the racial politics of the past for their own advantage. Luckily, I think it isn's working.

  •  Pat stay pat, right where you are & what you are (0+ / 0-)

    I am for those who say he is a keeper. at MSNBC.

    convenient to have him where we can watch him and see his credibility and punditry authority dying the death of a thousand cuts.

    Friday night, just before Rachel, Lawrence O'Donnell (another Irish White N-word descendant) had ex-Senator Danforth react to his words.

    This uber member of the elite (inherited wealth from built America type industrial fortune, minister of his church, senator, social powerhouse in St. Louis society and BTW mentor of Clarence Thomas) was polite but devastating. Wondered out loud how anyone cld thing that SS was not capable.

    message from white man of the generation and class you so admire: Pat you are sub-anyone.

  •  Buchannan's Statements (0+ / 0-)

    and your response both presuppose that what white people - or any other people - who are long dead and gone confers any priviledge or moral superiority on those of the same race decades or centuries later.  Whether or not "white men built this country" (thought that its obviously untrue) has no bearing at all on whether Sonia Sotomayor should be a supreme court justice.  It also has no bearing on whether using affirmative action to counteract continuing racism, sexism and disparate access educational and employment opportunities is a good policy.  Pretendng an ass like Buchannan deserves special status because of something other people did who also happened to be white is idiotic.  Shall we also extend him the same historic legacy from the slave owners who fought for the south?  I mean, hey, they were white guys too.  Or how about the colonists who remained loyal to the British?  Of course that would be ridiculous.  One generation does not get passed either the merits or misdeeds of the predecessors either through race or lineage.  

  •  Wrong (0+ / 0-)

    The implicit argument offered by Buchanan is that African-Americans sat on the sidelines during the Civil War.

    That's not the implicit argument.  Buchanan defended the notion that all white men are evil because all the white men at Gettysburg died trying to free the slaves.  That was clearly Buchanan's argument that you twisted.

  •  Pat Seems To Forget (0+ / 0-)

    That during the 1800s, Irish Catholics, like Pat, were an ethnic minority subjugated to the same bigotry and profiling that African Americans suffered. Would Pat Buchannan be so loose with his lips if he lived through that era? What would Buchannan do if he came across someone like Bill the Butcher?

  •  Hate to do this (0+ / 0-)

    But I've got to call you on something here Mac.

    "were it not for racist whites (like Buchanan, who undoubtedly would have sided with the Confederacy), we would never have had a civil war in the first place."

    Slavery was only one of the issues that lead to the Civil war. Not everyone in the North was anti-slavery and not everyone in the South was pro-slavery. There were Northern slave owners and Southern slave sympathizers. At the time, racism wasn't as vice, especially if it was directed against the Irish, Negros, Italians, and Jews.

    Trying to paint the North as loving and caring and racially tolerant while the South wallowed in barbarism and racism is intellectually dishonest in and of itself.

    Otherwise, you wrote a good diary and little Patty B. really needs to be taken to task for his comments.

    •  That's just southern apologetics. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Noamjunior

      The war was very much about slavery, just not always about the obvious moral aspect.  There were many northern interests who opposed slavery for economic reasons (unions and laborers, religious groups who felt work stengthens the spirit), who might not care about AAs so much.

      The Civil War was about slavery, no question about it.  In fact the first state to leave (south carolina) lists a litany of reasons for leaving in the document, all dealing with disrespect over slavery. They were tired of northerners disprespecting their way of life (specifically slavery).

  •  In (sort of) defense of Buchanan (0+ / 0-)
    I certainly do not agree with Buchanan's views on affirmative action generally or Sotomayor specifically...but at the beginning of this interview he seems to be getting at a point that cannot be ignored. There is one qualification that every Supreme Court justice MUST have: possession of a law degree. While Maddow's citing of 108 of 110 males being on the Supreme Court is an accurate statistic, how often were women and minorities denied the right and opportunity to attend law school? We can blame the judicial selection process as prejudiced and discriminatory but the reasons for lack of diversity on the bench are in fact far deeper.

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