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Give financiers credit--they see through the bullshit and know exactly who's going to benefit if the public option gets dropped from health care reform. Hint: It ain't the public.

Shares of U.S. health insurers rose broadly on Tuesday on hopes a health reform bill would not include a government-run option, which has drawn strong opposition from insurers who fear it would destroy the private marketplace.

The S&P Managed Health Care index of large U.S. health insurers closed 6.5 percent higher.

Aetna rose 12.6 percent, Coventry was up 12.7 percent and Cigna was 7.7 percent higher, all on the New York Stock Exchange. Centene rose 7.9 percent.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:18 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Well, considering (17+ / 0-)

    the insurance companies own many Democratic Senators, it's probably a good buy.

    Baucus and Conrad will destroy the party by selling it out.

    They "prefer an America where parents will lie awake at night worried if they can afford health care their children need."

    by TomP on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:20:16 AM PDT

    •  Not just Baucus and Conrad (20+ / 0-)

      it is every Democratic Senator who isn't threatening those too -- it is Harry Reid and Rahm Emmanuel and yes, President Obama.  The whole lot of them make me sick right now.

    •  What amazes me is (22+ / 0-)

      that big buisiness is losing out to a sector (insurance and Big Pharma).  It's actually in the interest of big busienss to have a public option and transition insurance out of their costs.

      Dumbshits.

      They "prefer an America where parents will lie awake at night worried if they can afford health care their children need."

      by TomP on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:25:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You got (4+ / 0-)

        that right!   I am still holding out hope.  It's tenuous but it's there.

        http://www.thehamandlegsshow.com

        •  Is your Hope their Briar Patch of public option? (0+ / 0-)

          Sort of like reverse psychology, they are trying to portray the public option, which forces mandatory insurance they can't afford on Americans instead of single payer which has proven itself to work all around the world
          Wow, what a sophisticated strategy!

          I read this old story when I was little..

          "I've got you this time, Brer Rabbit," said Brer Fox, jumping up and shaking off the dust. "You've sassed me for the very last time. Now I wonder what I should do with you?"

          Brer Rabbit's eyes got very large. "Oh please Brer Fox, whatever you do, please don't throw me into the briar patch."

          "Maybe I should roast you over a fire and eat you," mused Brer Fox. "No, that's too much trouble. Maybe I'll hang you instead."

          "Roast me! Hang me! Do whatever you please," said Brer Rabbit. "Only please, Brer Fox, please don't throw me into the briar patch."

          "If I'm going to hang you, I'll need some string," said Brer Fox. "And I don't have any string handy. But the stream's not far away, so maybe I'll drown you instead."

          "Drown me! Roast me! Hang me! Do whatever you please," said Brer Rabbit. "Only please, Brer Fox, please don't throw me into the briar patch."

          "The briar patch, eh?" said Brer Fox. "What a wonderful idea! You'll be torn into little pieces!"

          Does this seem like sort of a trap, since Brer Rabbit (the insurance industry) escapes both punishment, and wins a continuation of the situation he uses to exploit people, and freedom?

          Grabbing up the tar-covered rabbit, Brer Fox swung him around and around and then flung him head over heels into the briar patch. Brer Rabbit let out such a scream as he fell that all of Brer Fox's fur stood straight up. Brer Rabbit fell into the briar bushes with a crash and a mighty thump. Then there was silence.

          Brer Fox cocked one ear toward the briar patch, listening for whimpers of pain. But he heard nothing. Brer Fox cocked the other ear toward the briar patch, listening for Brer Rabbit's death rattle. He heard nothing.

          Then Brer Fox heard someone calling his name. He turned around and looked up the hill. Brer Rabbit was sitting on a log combing the tar out of his fur with a wood chip and looking smug.

          "I was bred and born in the briar patch, Brer Fox," he called. "Born and bred in the briar patch."

          And Brer Rabbit skipped away as merry as a cricket while Brer Fox ground his teeth in rage and went home.

          So, is public option the briar patch? And are you folks playing Brer Rabbit with us?

          Health insurance premiums are projected to consume one third of family income by 2010, and all of it by 2025 (Am Fam Physician. 2005;72:)

          by Andiamo on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:55:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Big energy..................... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, QuestionAuthority

        ................. military comples, oil and healthcare insurance are conglomerates that are snuffing the life out of the rest of the economy. And why not, they are international and have other markets to rape and a US military that protects them.

        There is no loyalty to manufacturing anything in this country, so other business can blow it out their asses, as far as the evil coalition is concerned. Ask Cheney and Poppy Bush.

        Governments lie....... quote by Izzy Stone and Amy Goodman

        by socks on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:40:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Won't be an option for the already insured.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        formernadervoter

        They don't want it to be too attractive, as it will probably lose money. (shhhh!)

        Public option wont last long unless it can make health care affordable, but how could it without cost control?

        The subsidies to address this mess would have to be HUGE and go to many more people..

        Single payer works!

        Health insurance premiums are projected to consume one third of family income by 2010, and all of it by 2025 (Am Fam Physician. 2005;72:)

        by Andiamo on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:44:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Andiamo, you are so correct (0+ / 0-)

          Even Jacob Hacker's "robust" version would not reduce costs, insure everyone, or eliminate co pays, deductibles and underinsurance.

          The 9 million member version is fucking useless.

          And how did that word "robust" get perverted by the pwogressive crowd into meaning something that it does not?

          "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer health care program." Pres. Goldman Sachs Obama, 6/30/03

          by formernadervoter on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:26:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe yes, maybe no. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP

        Big business is going to shed providing health insurance as soon as it can. It is already cost shifting to the employee.

        So they probably would welcome single payer but they don't want that fight with the insurance and pharma industry.

        They will let us do it and lose. Then they will go ahead down the path over time making the health insurance they offer more like junk insurance.

        So in the end, it is the citizen who is really swcrewed.

      •  right, and you'd think the biggest (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        formernadervoter, TomP

        companies would push the most for reform. I don't see that happening, however. Meanwhile you got 47% of the public opposed to "Obama's plan" as I heard this morning on NPR. So much for who's winning the media campaign.

        We don't inherit the world from the past. We borrow it from the future.

        by minorityusa on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:04:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They oppose it because it's stupid (0+ / 0-)

          more spending
          more taxes
          more bureaucracy

          No reform.

          It's a wonder only 47% oppose it.

          "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer health care program." Pres. Goldman Sachs Obama, 6/30/03

          by formernadervoter on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:27:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you do know that single payer (0+ / 0-)

            would have more spending, more taxes, and more bureaucracy, don't you?

            And you do know that the new spending and taxes for single payer would be much larger than $100 billion a year?

            "At the end of the day, the public plan wins the game." Sen. Ben Nelson

            by ferg on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:34:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not sure big business has (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP

        any idea of what they are doing, ever, as is evidenced by the financial debacle we are now in.  They concentrate on fleecing shareholders, not actually performing well.

        From Neocon to sane- thanks to Obama- and Kos.

        by satrap on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:42:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  If President Obama (6+ / 0-)

      can't get it done on health care(and that means a STONG public option) then he deserves to be the one termer the Blue dogs are determined to make him.

      Nice work Rahm.

      http://dumpjoe.com/

      by ctkeith on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:37:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Isn't Obama a Blue Dog himself? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        formernadervoter

        Around when he was inaugurated TN Blue Dog Jim Copper was saying he WAS.. to his local papers..

        Health insurance premiums are projected to consume one third of family income by 2010, and all of it by 2025 (Am Fam Physician. 2005;72:)

        by Andiamo on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:46:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think that is inaccurate. (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ferg, askew, GN1927, alkalinesky, Egalitare

          Your ultra-left posturing seems divorced from reality.  I have critcized Obama both during the primary and after his election from the left, but he is more accurately portrayed as someone left of center with progressive tendencies.  

          If you cannot see the differences between Ralph Nader, Bernie Sanders, Brack Obama, and Jim Cooper (hint, the list is from left to right, but Obama still is closer to Sanders than to Cooper), then for all your posturing, you achive little.  It's a damn shame, because single payer is the right answer.  We need a strategy to get to single payer from here, but your work does not seem to achive anything toward that goal.    

          They "prefer an America where parents will lie awake at night worried if they can afford health care their children need."

          by TomP on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:56:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  To be honest (0+ / 0-)

            I really don't give a rats ass where on the spectrum of left to right Obama,Rahm,or any of the other players are I want a Health care reform bill with a STRONG Public Option and if it's not delivered(as promised)I believe Obama will at best be another mediocre President.Maybe even a one termer.

            I know this, the public option was a compromise to begin with and if Obama moves that line in the sand and turns health care reform into a joke his Presidency is toast.

            http://dumpjoe.com/

            by ctkeith on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:15:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It actually does matter, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              alkalinesky, dotalbon

              becasue "left" on a spectrum is a proxy for various issue positions that favor people over profits (or at least seek a level playing fieled between people and profits, i.e., capital).

              I agree with you about the public option, but at the risk of heresy point out that health care is NOT the only issue that matters.  Yes, it's very important.

              In addition, "failed" presidency is silly.  If Obama fails, we all do, because progressives need Obama.  As for "medicore," that's a huge improvement over what we have had for 30 plus years.    

              Even if Obama moves that line in the sand, I will support him.  I will be angry, but the political reality is that progressives (leftists) need Obama and he needs us.

              The forces of fascism are strong in America and will become stronger as the new economic relaities sink in.  We need a common front.  Criticize Obama's poor choices when he makes them, but realize that until 2016, we both need each other.

              They "prefer an America where parents will lie awake at night worried if they can afford health care their children need."

              by TomP on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:27:03 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Agree with you, but you're pissing into (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                askew, TomP, alkalinesky

                the wind on this site.  The concept of politics as a process, not a piece of legislation, is completely foreign to a disturbing number of Kossacks.  

                "Eyes on the prize" is a slogan not to be taken lightly.  It means you are committed to the process as much as the end product, can accept disappointments as inevitable but never deviate from your goal.

                The notion that single-payer health insurance was going to be a reality one year into Obama's term is ludicrous.  The man can't dissolve the corporate ties in the Senate (hint: VOTERS do that), and he can't push a bill that he knows the Senate has zero chance of passing.   He's boxed in, and the only hope he has for future success is that his allies -- that's US, people -- hang with him as he tries again.  

                It's becoming crystal clear why we can't get any progressive agenda through Congress.  We have all the collective patience of a preschool.  

                It is scarcely possible to conceive of the laws of motion if one looks at them from a tennis ball's point of view. (Brecht)

                by dotalbon on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:46:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well said. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  alkalinesky

                  This is so true:

                  "Eyes on the prize" is a slogan not to be taken lightly.  It means you are committed to the process as much as the end product, can accept disappointments as inevitable but never deviate from your goal.

                  My way of saying this is as follows: "It's a long struggle."

                  We are fighting extremely strong enemies who have much power.  if we can improve the lives of people even a little, we are doing good.  It's not a game; people's lives are affected.

                  Good comment.

                  They "prefer an America where parents will lie awake at night worried if they can afford health care their children need."

                  by TomP on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:54:55 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Totally agree. (0+ / 0-)

                  And great comment. Americans are acting like children with the attention span of a gnat. It's pathetic and sad, and perhaps we as a nation just aren't ready to be a leader (or even a very good follower). America is a sad shadow of what it used to be.

                  President Obama. Yes We Did.

                  by alkalinesky on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 10:14:31 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  And I remember Obama (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kingubu

          Quite vehemently insisting he be removed from their membership rolls.  He's NOT a Blue Dog.

          Modern Conservatism in 3 words: "Taxez iz, bad!"

          by slippytoad on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:08:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  His policies are blue dog (0+ / 0-)

          or maybe even Eisenhower Republican.

          "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer health care program." Pres. Goldman Sachs Obama, 6/30/03

          by formernadervoter on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:27:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Sugg. to Pres. Obama re. bluedog public plan oppo- (0+ / 0-)
      nents: if these Dems are selling out to the insurance lobby for a few million $s in campaign donations, why not Pres. Obama cut a deal with them promising that he will help raise the same or more in donations to each such "bluedog" using his massive OFA mailing lists (when they're up for reelection) if they line up to support a robust public plan (govt. run, i.e. no co-ops, available to everyone from day one)? If they do pass such a reform, with our help, he can easily help them raise that dough in very little time. Why allow a few million $ to gut real healthcare reform that stands to profoundly affect hundreds of millions of Americans for generations to come, especially when there is an easy alternate way to generate that comparatively piddly amount of campaign cash?
    •  In the hope that it doesn't remain a "good buy" (0+ / 0-)

      Maybe we should make sure that the mutual and index funds we're invested in don't include shares of Big Pharma and Big Insurance.

      GOP Talking Points Hotline: 1-800-WHINE

      by Auntie Neo Kawn on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:44:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  One of the Guests on COUNTDOWN Last Night (10+ / 0-)

    was WONDERFUL in demonstrating the interests of insurance companies & Wall Street in maintaining the status quo in the current health "care" system. His name escapes me, now; I'll look it up from last night's diary.

    St. Sarah from Wasilla - poster child for Delusions of Adequacy

    by CityLightsLover on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:20:50 AM PDT

  •  No other words are necessary. n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CityLightsLover, JC from IA

    Torture: An act... specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering upon another person within his custody or physical control.

    by MsGrin on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:21:10 AM PDT

  •  the entire market barely moved yesterday (5+ / 0-)

    if wallstreet liked the idea of public option failure? why didnt it go up 200 points?

    •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bushondrugs, Egalitare

      Sort of a misconception in this diary.  The DJA was slightly down yesterday, which could be interpreted as "Wall Street's" recognition that overall the defeat of the public option is bad for the economy.  It may be beneficial to certain companies (the health insurance companies), but overall, it is a negative factor.

    •  Jeese Dude. The point was (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Answer Guy

      of the stocks moving and shaking it was the insurance companies' stocks.

      Aetna rose 12.6 percent, Coventry was up 12.7 percent and Cigna was 7.7 percent higher, all on the New York Stock Exchange. Centene rose 7.9 percent.

      Those are pretty big gains, no?

      And welcome to the good ol' US of A where the health and welfare of its citizens is a gamble and a chance to reap huge rewards and profits. I think is should be called the "Free Market of Death".

      To whom it may concern. Waterboarding is torture. Torture is illegal. Sincerely, A. No Brainer.

      by Pescadero Bill on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:54:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Maria Bartiromo (10+ / 0-)

    Maria Bartiromo was positively orgasmic earlier this week over the "fading chances for health care reform".  Made me sick.

  •  Wall Street adores those industries with a (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Samer, CityLightsLover, imamish, MsGrin

    steady stream of income. Gets their creative juices flowing.

  •  72% want health care reform (12+ / 0-)

    Some how that means nothing to those with the power to create change.

  •  The Gentleman's Name is Wendell Potter. (4+ / 0-)

    Check out my interpretation of his thoughts last night.

    St. Sarah from Wasilla - poster child for Delusions of Adequacy

    by CityLightsLover on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:23:12 AM PDT

  •  Bastids better get ready for a drop in those (12+ / 0-)

    stock prices, 'cause we aren't taking NO for an answer this time.

    Man the phones, people!

    If God had been a Liberal, we wouldn't have had the ten commandments. We'd have had the ten suggestions.

    by funluvn1 on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:23:26 AM PDT

  •  So, what's the prediction? Should we ... (5+ / 0-)

    ...all short-sell health insurance stocks in the certainty that the obstructionist wing of the Democratic party will get their comeuppance and we'll get a robust public option?

    Or should we buy and hold, figuring that these stocks will rise again when the final legislation gets the President's signature?

    I wish I could say it's the former.

    Some people would be better off not reading diaries they comment on, since they already have all the answers.

    by Meteor Blades on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:24:08 AM PDT

  •  Tom Daschle on WNYC right now (10+ / 0-)

    describing 'compromise' being formed for coops and public option going down the drain.

    He also claims we can't get a public option because we don't have 60 votes.

    Why, why why do Democrats have to be such wimps!

    If there is no public option, democrats will feel the wrath of the voting public in 2010 and beyond.

  •  the insurance co's have too much leverage (7+ / 0-)

    financial and political.  Their globalized presence and holdings anchor their status quo interests with the Congress and my guess is that we will get, as Howard Dean said describing the difference: 'insurance reform' not 'healthcare.'

    I am very pessimistic.  Once I found out the extent of their globalized holdings, I thought the game was over.  They don't have to answer to the US electorate or customers or depend on US satisfaction or sales; they are making a shitload of money elsewhere and can bide their time and use their money to buy the conditions for their wealth.

    They are not going to fold like US carmakers, because their consumers are trapped here: 'my way or the highway' and as I said, they are making a shitload of money abroad, to pay for the influence they need here to keep their 'gig' going.

    Criminal Investigations MUST TAKE PLACE into the Bush Administration's Policies and Practices of Torture!

    by SeaTurtle on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:25:16 AM PDT

    •  Insurance reform IS what we need, but . . . (0+ / 0-)

      not the insurance reform that the health insurance companies want.

      •  Dean's point, as I understand it, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sapper, Mr MadAsHell

        is that insurance reform will prevent ins. cos. from denying for things such as pre-existing conditions and dropping sick people from their policies.  However, real healthcare reform would include a public option, to provide incentive for insurance companies to play fair and to provide affordable healthcare for all.

        So, not that the above reforms aren't good, they are really a sop to the massive problems we have with healthcare.  And just using these reforms won't change the system, just tinker with it.  We need a massive change.

        Criminal Investigations MUST TAKE PLACE into the Bush Administration's Policies and Practices of Torture!

        by SeaTurtle on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:29:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Most of the reforms are only for new policies.. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pescadero Bill

          which will be more expensive.. People who are currently employed will be grandfathered in, so until they change jobs, the new rules would not apply to their plans.

          Individuals would have to buy individual policies, I dont think its clear how much the rule changes effect existing individual policies, although they are getting huge price rises so maybe the new rules do apply to some.

          The government cant make private firms lose money, no matter what. So, they will always have the upper hand.

          Health insurance premiums are projected to consume one third of family income by 2010, and all of it by 2025 (Am Fam Physician. 2005;72:)

          by Andiamo on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:06:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the facts say COMPLETELY otherwise: (0+ / 0-)

            The government cant make private firms lose money, no matter what. So, they will always have the upper hand.

            The whole Wall Street debacle and now the collapse of geniune healthcare reforms suggests completely otherwise:

            Congress IS OWNED.  Pure and simple.

            No anti-trust laws.  Nothing.

            Criminal Investigations MUST TAKE PLACE into the Bush Administration's Policies and Practices of Torture!

            by SeaTurtle on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:28:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh Wow, Andiamo, I misread your post (0+ / 0-)

              and I apologise.

              I thought you said that the 'govt CAN make private firms....." etc.  

              Sorry, my response obviously was misplaced.

              We are in agreement.

              Criminal Investigations MUST TAKE PLACE into the Bush Administration's Policies and Practices of Torture!

              by SeaTurtle on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:52:39 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thats okay, we're only human.. (0+ / 0-)

                I do that too, all the time.. Its just a stressful situation, this issue.. Its really terrible, the stress they are putting people through.

                The politicians are in their dream world while Americans are slowly drowning, economically.

                by Andiamo on Thu Jul 30, 2009 at 08:52:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  There is no such thing as insurance reform (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Samer, SeaTurtle

        that will matter.

        For one, insurance companies are in it to make money. They will always find a way of working around the regulations government puts in place.

        Secondly, you can't force insurance companies to lose money. If they start to lose money, they'll bail out of the business.

        Thirdly, having regulations in place that assure insurance companies profit is both a waste of money that could be going to healing people, and an open door for insurance company abuse.

        A public option is a must. If they fail to deliver a legitimate public option, the legislation will be a failure.

        I think Obama realizes that, but is up against a Congress that has decided to take a firm stand against the wishes of the Executive.

        Imagine that, a Congress exercising its dominance over legislation after 8 years of it being Bush's blow-up sex doll. What does that say about how much work still needs to be done in the Democratic Party?

        To whom it may concern. Waterboarding is torture. Torture is illegal. Sincerely, A. No Brainer.

        by Pescadero Bill on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:16:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  PBill, until we get public campaign financing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pescadero Bill

          and regulations on lobbyists that have some teeth; its like 'pissing in the wind', imo.

          The Congress is owned.

          The Congress is owned.

          The Congress is owned.

          Period.

          Criminal Investigations MUST TAKE PLACE into the Bush Administration's Policies and Practices of Torture!

          by SeaTurtle on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:30:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I know, that's why I think it's important to call (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SeaTurtle

            anything short of a bill with a strong public option a failure.

            We can't let them pull off anything else like it was some kind of major victory throwing a smokescreen in front of the real issues.

            We must call it a failure and proof of government capitulation to corporate interests once again.

            To whom it may concern. Waterboarding is torture. Torture is illegal. Sincerely, A. No Brainer.

            by Pescadero Bill on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 11:32:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Krugman may be the best spokesperson (15+ / 0-)

    for the Public Option. He was debating it with someone from Heritage Foundation on Terry Gross last night and had the most effective talking points and logic that I've heard in support of the Public Option. Getting more exposure for the Nobel K would be helpful at this point.

  •  Dollar a day until real reform is passed (0+ / 0-)

    Great idea!

    If a million people signed up, we'd grow stronger by a million dollars every day they delay.

  •  miss the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bushondrugs, Mariken

    the Republican wing seems to be in control.

  •  Is this a macro or micro reaction? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bushondrugs

    Powerful as insurance companies are, they are only a fraction of the companies and a fraction of the money both in the economy and on the exchanges.

    Serious health reform would be good for nearly all of the companies that are not in the business of selling health insurance.  It might not be good for pharmaceuticals, but I suspect they'd be all right -- more patients to help make up for declines in per-patient profits.

    So...

    What exactly are the financiers looking at?

    Are they strongly opposed to a public option per se or because they don't see any benefit to them in this one?

    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

    by dinotrac on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:29:13 AM PDT

    •  As long as the system is profit-driven, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JC from IA

      this is what we can expect.  The incentives are not to keep people healthy.  

      The goal is to get a fresh bunch of hostage-customers who have money to pay... and to forget those who don't have money.

      A Wall Street "bonus" should not be more than what my house is currently worth.

      by bushondrugs on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:36:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That begs micro and macro, though. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bushondrugs

        The incentives absolutely ARE to keep people healthy if you look at business (including humongoloid corporate America) as a whole.

        Rising health care costs cut into profits.
        Excessive sick time cuts into profits.
        People who are unable to remain at peak awareness cuts into profits.

        Employees who die while employees cut into profits.

        Some segments benefit from people who aren't healthy, but most don't.

        Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

        by dinotrac on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:02:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  class solidarity (0+ / 0-)

      even if it would help their own companies, they have a higher value on supporting their class over the commons.

      "At the end of the day, the public plan wins the game." Sen. Ben Nelson

      by ferg on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:38:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Class solidarity for business is about making (0+ / 0-)

        profits.

        Health insurance costs are eating many businesses alive. Class solidarity would call for something to ease that burden.

        And this whole class solidarity thing is a pretty strange analysis, anyway.

        Last I looked, Nancy Pelosi, a multi-millionaire patrician, Ted Kennedy, a multi-millionare patrician, and lots of other silk-stocking types were aboard the health reform bandwagaon.  Ted, before his recent health challenges, even took a major role in steering.

        Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

        by dinotrac on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:00:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  not for the CEOs (0+ / 0-)

          Making profits isn't a class solidarity issues; it's rational business behavior, not solidarity.

          Standing up for other business CEOs like the insurance company CEOs when it's not in your best business interest is class solidarity.  Yes, it's strange, but why else didn't companies like GM support health reform years ago?  It was in their business interest.

          Just because class solidarity exists for many CEOs doesn't mean it exists for all rich people.  Pelosi and Kennedy are class traitors, just like FDR.  

          "At the end of the day, the public plan wins the game." Sen. Ben Nelson

          by ferg on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:14:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That analysis doesn't mesh with behavior. (0+ / 0-)

            Companies constantly cut each other off at the knees, and CEOs cut other CEOs off at their knees.

            As to GM and years ago, you must remember that they have

            a: a union contract WRT health benefits, and
            b: years ago and today are different animals.  Health benefit costs have been climbing at twice the cost of everything else.  They used to be much more manageable, especially for a big comapny like (the old) GM.

            There's a good question of whether anybody considers it important to do health care reform in a way that will benefit business, but I understand that some employers are already behind it -- including, if I recall correctly, Wal-Mart.

            Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

            by dinotrac on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:26:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Without (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GN1927, socks, SeaTurtle, Mariken

    A proper Universal Health Care Wall Street won't enjoy the end results down the road, and not to far down, for as it has been growing progessively worse it'll continue, thus causing many more problem within the work force and families, thus lowering productivity and The Bottom Lines no matter How Many Times They Change The Warm Bodies!!!!!!

    But then again Wall Street and the Elites only care about the Short Term investing, not the Long Term growth and Health of the Economy!!!

    "The wise man points to the stars and the fool sees only the finger - and discusses it 24/7 on cable and am radio."

    by jimstaro on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:29:36 AM PDT

  •  Wall Street History--look it up! (6+ / 0-)

    A year ago I was commenting (and getting slammed, even here) for suggesting that the spike in gasoline prices had nothing to do with supply, international relations, etc, but was rather due to speculation. When the Boys at Bear went down (or perhaps came up from their basements) in September, the price of gasoline plummeted, but still MSM would not admit the problem.

    So this note from HuffPo today is amazing only in the fact that it hasn't been pulled yet:

    As the WSJ reports this morning, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission is now admitting that oil speculators "played a significant role" in a sudden spike in the price of oil in the summer of 2008. That summer oil reached $147 per barrel, and the CFTC claimed the price increase was due to the forces of supply and demand.

    As I search my normal sites today, I still don't see the energy to push public option health care that I saw to get a Democratic president elected. The efforts are disjoint and sporadic. Wall Street will win again

    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

    by MrMichaelMT on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:30:33 AM PDT

    •  I don't know what the CFTC is, but (0+ / 0-)

      it's obviously full of corruption.

      I never thought I would say this, but I think we need more law enforcement, specifically aimed at white collar crime. A 'War On White Collar Corruption' if you will.

      To whom it may concern. Waterboarding is torture. Torture is illegal. Sincerely, A. No Brainer.

      by Pescadero Bill on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:23:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Speculating on oil prices is not a crime (0+ / 0-)

        Anyone can buy or sell, go long or short, oil futures. Speculating on the price of oil rising or falling using the investment instruments available is not a crime. Everyone had real problems with speculators who helped to drive the price over $140/barrel but no one shed any tears on all the money the speculators lost when the price dropped under $40/barrel.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:31:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was refering to this bit: (0+ / 0-)

          and the CFTC claimed the price increase was due to the forces of supply and demand

          Forces of supply and demand my ass. How could they be so wrong without it being on purpose. So the "Commission" was either ignorant and actually thought the prices were being driven by supply and demand, or IMO, the members were in on it and cashing in.

          I mean why even make a public claim like that unless you were hoping to keep the heat off the speculators driving up the prices? It was blatantly obvious what was going on.

          Seriously, do you think they just couldn't see it?

          To whom it may concern. Waterboarding is torture. Torture is illegal. Sincerely, A. No Brainer.

          by Pescadero Bill on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 11:26:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I fear this ................... (0+ / 0-)

    .........stalemate cannot end well, for anyone.

    Governments lie....... quote by Izzy Stone and Amy Goodman

    by socks on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:34:28 AM PDT

  •  Please sign Durbin's Leahy's and Schumer's (4+ / 0-)

    petition for a public option. It only went up by 10,000 votes from yesterday.

    http://ga3.org/...

    and send to everyone you know.

    •  Please convince me. (0+ / 0-)

      That Durbin is supporting a government administered public option that is open to everybody on day one and which has the authority to negotiate with health care providers.

      Nothing he has said or written is other than his supporting a marketplace of insurers with a "public option" that is captive to the rules of the exchanges and only provides partial incentives to the indigent without reducing costs for the rest of us.

      Distrust of authority should be the first civic duty. - Norman Douglas

      by Fossil on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:43:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Welcome to the world of rising premiums. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Answer Guy, SeaTurtle, bushondrugs

    Especially when people will be mandated to purchase coverage by our Democratic government and the state health exchanges will be monopolized by fewer and fewer insurers.

    But I am not giving up and will continue to call and write.

    Distrust of authority should be the first civic duty. - Norman Douglas

    by Fossil on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:37:37 AM PDT

  •  Robust public option open to all is a non starter (0+ / 0-)

    It will drive private insurers out of business. It is the road to single payer. Not that this is necessarily bad.
    To survive the political process, this must be limited to either people making certain incomes or small employers.

  •  The public is just the double zero (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tcdup

    On Wall Streets big Rollette Wheel. It don't land on us very often.

    Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore

    by Horsehead on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:38:44 AM PDT

  •  Where is the loyalty of the Democratic party (3+ / 0-)

    to its base?

  •  The thing to remember is- (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ferg, bushondrugs, JC from IA

    that having the public option is the only thing that will have an effect on the health insurers.

    Reform goes forward giving them a captive market because everybody HAS to buy insurance?  WIN.

    Reform dies because the Blue Dogs won't compromise, and the Progressive Caucus sticks by its guns and doesn't vote for a final version w/o robust public option (which they should, keep whipping)-well, that suits them too.

    Because that means the gravy train is still on the track.  Blood gravy.

    Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

    by boadicea on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:42:19 AM PDT

  •  So whaddya want me to do? (0+ / 0-)

    Call my financier and tell him not to invest my money?

    "Half of the American people never read a newspaper. Half never vote for President. One hopes it is the same half." - Gore Vidal

    by sapper on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:42:31 AM PDT

  •  My, my, they are sure going to be disappointed (0+ / 0-)

    with the end result, then, I reckon.

    If there is any clearer indication of what the 'negotiations' in the Senate are all about, I can't imagine what it might be.

    Problem is, the House, the POTUS, and the American public are lined up on the other side.

  •  Pirates in $1000 3-piece suits (0+ / 0-)

    Torture good, Healthcare bad, Marijuana evil.
    Doc in the Twitterverse

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:47:45 AM PDT

  •  This is good news for John McCain! (0+ / 0-)

    somebody had to say it

    "He's like any other president -- he's a politician and he's got to do what politicians do." Rev. Jeremiah Wright

    by PhillyGal on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:51:23 AM PDT

  •  Medicare was going to destroy the ins. industry. (3+ / 0-)

    That didn't happen, did it?  

  •  I guess this is what happens (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wolf Of Aquarius

    when you build your society on the concept of greed and personal wealth.

    "You can't have everything; where would you put it?" - Steven Wright

    by frsbdg on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:55:06 AM PDT

  •  Ignorance and racism vs. Health Care Reform (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eloise

    This was an eye opening report on NPR this morning.

    http://www.npr.org/...

    Listen all the way through to the disabled dad with kids on Medicaid who "wants no part" of the president's reforms because he worries the "minorities" might get more attention than "whites."

    These people make me sick.

    "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." - Oscar Wilde

    by greendem on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 07:59:23 AM PDT

  •  So long... (0+ / 0-)

    It was good while it lasted.  Ain't never going to happen.  No jobs, no health insurance, no energy...

    This is the day the Obama Presidency ended.  Time to go for a new leader.  This one is sold out.  He is only interesed in re-election.  We will talking about health insurance in Nov.2010, and Nov.2012, and also on Jan/20/2013 when at about 12 noon, Obama will demit office and take up a job with some DC lobbyists.  He's just another politician.  It will be the same misery for everyone.  Nothing will ever change.

    •  The more things change... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eloise

      ...maybe some of us will stop making fun of Nader and Kucinich.  They have the honesty to live by their ideals.  With Obama it is a new compromise everyday.  Million dollar bonuses? Check.  Billion dollar giveaways? Check.  Trillion dollar bailouts? Check.  I thought the guy had guts.  It was all just for the elections.  Maybe it is all those Ivy Leaguers and trust fund kids around him.  Bill Clinton is the truly self-made guy who fought his way out of obscurity, not Obama who went to a private school and always had lots of money.  I got into this looking to maximise my minimum gain.  I will now exit this Obama farce hoping to minimise my maximum loss.  All these townhalls are with an eye on 11/9/10 and 11/8/12.  He isn't ever going to ride herd or corral the crooks.  But maybe like that guy on Medicaid in Tennessee this morning on NPR we get the government we deserve.  Excepting that the ones who get chewed are always the little people.

  •  Oh, but (0+ / 0-)

    there's lots of people right here at DailyKos keep telling us we have  to be "prgmatic" and consider "co-ops" a great reform victory and stop being such purist whiners and can't we ever accept any compromises at all?  After all, they're the smart and reasonable centrists, and those that don't agree with them are (and I quote) "leftist idiots".

    "99% of the battles and skirmishes that we fought in Afghanistan were won by our side." ~ Marshall Akhromeyev

    by ActivistGuy on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:02:41 AM PDT

  •  I was watching the parade of Republicans (0+ / 0-)

    in the House yesterday getting up and talking with Luntz talking points regarding government run heathcare. Government takeover of healthcare. Government telling you when to die. Government cutting seniors care.

    One person who stood out for me was Todd Akin from Missouri’s 2nd District. He said he didn't have health insurance for ten years before becoming a Congressman. After he was a Congressman he got cancer. And his wonderful health insurance is why he is alive today.

    He asked why he would destroy the greatest health care system in the world?

    Did this man pass the imbecile test before being swore in? Do they have such and test? If not, shouldn't we demand one?

    Hon. Todd Akin
     117 Cannon House Office Bldg.
     Washington, D.C. 20515

     (202) 225-2561
     

     St. Louis Office
     301 Sovereign Court, Suite 201
     St. Louis, MO. 63011

     (314)-590-0029

     St. Charles Office
     820 S. Main, Suite 206
     St. Charles, MO. 63301

     (636)-949-6826

  •  fuck. them. all (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JC from IA

    that's all i have to say. senators are apparently bought and paid for. as someone said upthread, my rage-o-meter is peaking in the red.

    The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out. - George Carlin

    by mediaprof on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:18:34 AM PDT

  •  Aetna recently down 5% due to missed earnings (0+ / 0-)

    but now up 12.6% because of this. They deserve to be cut off of life support.

  •  The public option should fail (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Proleft

    As Helen Redmond said over at counterpunch, Obama's bill is a piece of shit.

    Top Ten Reasons the Public Plan is a Bait and Switch

    1. It leaves in place the deficient employer based model.    As the National Organization for Women noted in their single payer endorsement  (July 7, 2009) of the only viable reform model, single payer, many Americans are tied to jobs they don’t like because of the antiquated employer based insurance model.  For those switching from one job to another, those wanting to go on strike, those wanting to quit a job, etc. it prevents the ability to move freely as a laborer.
    1. It leaves private insurance, a major contributor to administrative inefficiency and bloated bureaucracy, in charge of health care decisions.
    1. It only results in about 10% of the savings that would accrue were single payer to be enacted.  That’s assuming 50% of Americans can enroll---an optimistic figure (Jacob Hacker’s assumption that Congress has drastically scaled back to a tiny plan).   Since hospitals and doctors will still have to deal with 1300 insurance companies little savings will result by adding a public option, reports Dr. Don McCanne of the Physicians for a National Health Plan, March 26, 2009, www.pnhp.org.   24% of hospital budgets go to billings (only 12% in Canada) and this wouldn’t change under any version of the public option.   As Drs. Steffie Woolhander and David Himmelstein note, the bureaucratic savings of the public plan option "would be miniscule". (The New York Times, Room For Debate, June 18, 2009).,,
    1. It does not pay for itself, unlike single payer, requiring a huge tax increase.   As the State Legislators for Single Payer Healthcare (including initiating sponsor WI State Sen. Mark Miller) note there is "no increase in total health care spending" with single payer.   Instead of everybody in, nobody out, an inclusive approach based on solidarity, public option pits the wealthy against poor, taxing the rich to provide subsidies to help poor people buy overpriced, insufficient private health insurance.   In the mainstream media this is being framed as the liberals taxing the rich for their liberal plan to force everyone into big government care, when In reality, the tax proposal would be used to shore up the private insurance system, giving them more customers and higher profits.    In her June 24 Congressional testimony, Dr. Woolhander estimated that it will cost 200 billion annually to pay for health insurance costs for those who cannot afford it.   That’s a much larger tax increase on the wealthy.
    1. It becomes part of the same failed private model: co pays, deductibles, denials of some necessary procedures, services and medications.   Coverage and benefits will be similar to the private plans due to inability to control costs.  (see no. 3)   "The ‘Public Plan Option’: Myths and Facts available at www.pnhp.org and see the excellent analysis , "Health Care Reform 2009: A Train Wreck in Slow Motion by Dr. John Geyman, July 21, 2009 available at www.pnhp.org/blog.
    1. It leaves millions uninsured.     Mandates have already failed in states where it has been tried, mostly recently in Massachusetts.    And, the model for a health insurance exchange, the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program leaves hundreds of thousands of federal workers uninsured, and does not control costs (Nicholas Skala, Congressional Progressive Caucus testimony, June 4, 2009).
    1. It Segregates patients into two groups: health patients who will be aggressively pursued by insurance companies and sicker/older patients who will end up in the public plan.   The public plan will not make private insurers honest.   Private insurers compete by denying (necessary coverage).  The public plan will either emulate this model, or quickly go under as it becomes overburdened by the sicker, older patients, reports Dr. Woolhander (June 24 House Subcommittee on House Energy and Commerce).
    1. Projected savings claimed by Wisconsin Citizen Action (based on a Lewin group study of Hacker’s original PO proposal) are not based on historical trends with public option plans that have already failed in every state where they have been tried.   (see Wisconsin Cost Savings under National Health Care Reform by Dr. Robert Kraig available at citizenactionwi.org) The HMO-Medicare history shows that public plans do not keep private insurers "honest".   "A quarter century of experience with public/private competition in the Medicare program demonstrates that the private plans will not allow a level playing field."   The Public Option Con, www.pnhp.org
    1. Private insurers will still continue to deny claims and as a result, a major issue, bankruptcy due to health costs will remain unaddressed.   In their June 2008 endorsement of single payer, the U.S. Conference of Mayors noted that "millions with insurance have coverage so inadequate that a major illness would lead to financial ruin."  www.usmayors.org/resolutions/76th_conference/chhs_03.asp
    1. The public option will not provide choice of provider unlike single payer since the public option will need to appeal to providers to obtain services.   "Patients will still have a limited choice of provider restricted by networks" as a Physicians for a National Health Program fact sheet states.

    "The ‘Public Plan Option’: Myths and Facts available at www.pnhp.org

    "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer health care program." Pres. Goldman Sachs Obama, 6/30/03

    by formernadervoter on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:19:53 AM PDT

    •  People need to stop dividing their effort (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Egalitare

      Those for public option and those for single payer are splitting the ranks and making the overall effort weaker.  It sounds much better, but single payer is not going to happen.  Not this time around anyway.  Public option is close to passing.  I think it is better to make a major jump in the right direction rather than have nothing.  Everyone needs to get on board with the public option and start push for it.

    •  I did not think... (0+ / 0-)

      ...much anyway to start with.  But I thought he would hold out a little longer and higher.  This guy has got no stuff inside him.  This is the best we can get it seems...A sweet talker with no spine.  I really do hope these guys get booted out en masse in 2010 and then later in 2012.  Anyone would be better than a weak-kneed compromiser like Obama.  Maybe the entire Dailykos crowd is to blame.  Building up this icon of marshmallow.

    •  You still haven't answered my questions. (0+ / 0-)

      How many months do you need?  They aren't hard.

      1. What is this "Obama's Bill" that only you seem to know about and despise?  To my knowledge, Obama has no bills on the table.
      1. How has that Nader vote been working out for you?

      Why are you having trouble answering such easy questions, Mr. Troll, sir?

  •  Any plan Wall Street (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Answer Guy, Diebold Hacker

    approves of will mean it's bad for the consumer.

  •  Third party is an option.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sapper, EquityRoy

    Wow, I follow the health care reform saga daily.

    I have not much sweat re my healthcare.  I'm kind, thrifty, obedient and loyal.  I maintain a private nurse practitioner practice in which I turn no one away, and a corporate nurse practitioner job that provides me with reasonably good Blue Cross/Blue Shield health coverage.

    In just a few years, I will be able to graciously retire from my corporate practice and be able to pursue my real interest of providing healthcare at my scope of practice to everyone regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay.  I absolutely am not a bean counter, nor do I have the inclination, ability or desire to be one.

    My heart breaks daily for those who have no or inadequate healthcare coverage.  I am too tired and too busy to list the particulars about how we have the best healthcare that money can buy.  Suffice it to say that those who have no insurance or those covered under Medicaid suck hind teat when it comes to receiving adequate healthcare.

    There will always be those who cannot or will not take care of themselves.  If we are to consider ourselves a compassionate, sane and responsible society we must take care of those who cannot or will not take care of themselves.  To do less is to remove ourselves from the roles of the civilized.

    Blah blah blah.  Everyone of you know this.  May God bless those politicians who fight for the poorest and least capable of us.  May God damn those politicians who fight for the corporate elite and wealthy,selfish ignorant among us.

    May God Bless our troops wherever they are. Best regards, El Tomaso

    by El Tomaso on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:27:18 AM PDT

  •  when will prog group protest local RW radio? (0+ / 0-)

    they do the heavy lifting for the lobbyists with that coordinated uncontested repetition that only those 1000 radio stations can provide.

    ignoring the talk radio monopoly continues to be the biggest political blunder in decades

    by certainot on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:31:16 AM PDT

  •  A non-public non-profit solution anyone? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sapper, Diebold Hacker

    I wish we could just skip this corrupt government altogether and find a solution that puts the insurance companies out of business.  

  •  A third party is needed. (0+ / 0-)

    Just like a public option would be needed "to keep the insurance companies honest", we need a third party to threaten the duopoly.  In the next few months we will see just how well bought our representatives are.  A lot of people will become disillusioned.

    With rising unemployment and receding standards of living, perhaps it will be the right time to start talking about an alternative?

    I, for one, do not intend to vote for these clowns again if health insurance reform fails.  As far as I'm concerned, this is their Waterloo.

  •  Health Insurance is only half the battle (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Creator

    for true healthcare reform. The other half, which doesn't seem to be waged anymore, is healthcare cost control.

    I think it could be easy as heck to cover everybody, regardless of condition or income. I think the hard part has to be in wrestling the medical industry's costs down to a level at which any kind of plan can pay for it.

    I believe we need some kind of health-care coverage reform because every American citizen regardless of belief, background, creed, color, sex, age, medical condition, deserves to be covered. They are presently not entirely covered.

    I also believe we should do something about cutting healthcare costs -- it's not just the billing and payment mechanisms that are driving the cost up. It's a wide variety of reasons, from the cost of living, malpractice insurance, the doctors' right to establish a private practice, the profit margin, real-estate prices, and general overhead that the private industry foots in order to put its items and services forward for the consumer.

    This is completely separate from the notion of care and concern for our fellow human beings, which is why we should without question reform the system and give everyone coverage without question.

    I look at the healthcare industry as an industry just like a car making industry, a banking industry, and the like. It has a profit motive. It has a bottom line it has to follow. In order for the industry to be perpetually profitable, it has to expand its services to new persons, and expound on its present services -- in order to charge more money.

    There is a rolling sort of paradox with the healthcare industry: Although the industry is filled with people who have legitimate care and concern for any individual, the industry itself is an amoral entity: It certainly doesn't want you dead, because you can't pay the bills that way. Yet it certainly doesn't want you "healthy," even if you are healthy, because you wouldn't spend money on their products or services.

    So the task is not to build a mechanism to pay for healthcare -- in theory any kind of system would work wonderfully.

    However, it won't work a lick if it can't even cover the basic bills for basic care anymore. This is the root of the problem that does receive mentions here and there, but doesn't seem to be squarely addressed.

    "Half of the American people never read a newspaper. Half never vote for President. One hopes it is the same half." - Gore Vidal

    by sapper on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:47:11 AM PDT

  •  The Insurance Companies (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sapper

    Yes the Insurers are happy- but not only did the Blue dogs sell us out, but so may President Obama

    He is turning out to not be a reformer- but an empty suit- who has neither the balls, or integrity to live up to his promise of hope.

    •  The president is "all in" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Creator

      ...he ran exclusively as a reformer.  

      If this fails, not only he, but any future democratic candidate who tries to run on an agenda of reform will suffer greatly.  The Repugs may be right about this being a political turning point.

      I don't think the Democrats are scared of health reform failure near as much as they should be.

  •  Yes. (0+ / 0-)

    Im sure a few things were "rising." I'll just bet they were!

    "The all-white American Media-where the REAL questions of guilt or innocence are decided."

    by lyvwyr101 on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 08:51:15 AM PDT

  •  Wall st. bail out & Health Care Deform (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Creator

    The Dems. are now courting POLITICAL disaster. If you couple the wildly unpopular bail-out of the Big Wall st. banks and Ins. company AIG with a failed health care reform bill you have a prescription for political disaster for the Dems. in 2010 and for the Obama Presidency. It's Obama that put Health Care center stage and it's Obama that is going to pay a very heavy price if it's turned into another Industry favorable bail out.

    "It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees" E. Zapata

    by Blutodog on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:06:02 AM PDT

  •  Yeah...Wall Street - We live in the only country. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Creator

    In the world where you can RUIN your credit score over an illness.  So - I for one, look forward to those credit reports with my old healthcare bills on them.

  •  Because the real purpose... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BeeClone, JC from IA, The Creator

    ... of US health insurance is, of course, to ensure that the wealthy continue to get wealthier.

    Of course they love it.

    Co-op is a cop out. It is not an option, let alone a public one.

    by JRandomPoster on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:34:17 AM PDT

  •  I live in fucking Mordor. (0+ / 0-)

    So do the rest of you.

  •  Wall Street, and it's brothel K Street, (0+ / 0-)

    is killing capitalism and destroying American society.

    When does the war start?  Fuck the Taliban...these internal enemies will destroy this nation long before any cave-dwelling posers ever could.

  •  Medicare for all. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JC from IA

    Private insurance supplementals if you want it.

    No more ridiculous premiums to these craven goatfuckers.  Levy a medicare for all tax.  I guarantee you it will be way less than that fucking premium you're paying.

    •  Exactly. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Creator

      Private for-profit insurance companies would do just fine under such a plan, as they have always done.

      Otherwise, end Medicare, Medicaid, AND the VA health systems, as well as employer-provided health insurance tax breaks, and let everyone fend for themselves in the private markets.  That way, we at least all die together.

  •  This isn't about the (0+ / 0-)

    health care needs of the American people, it about the profits of a out of control industry.  I'm sorry to say greed seems to be winning for now, but I'm not going to give up the fight, I will continue to call and write our elected officials.

    We all don't start with zero

    by BeeClone on Wed Jul 29, 2009 at 09:51:41 AM PDT

  •  Yep you are right Obama care is dead..... (0+ / 0-)

    I can assure you of that.  Public option may pass but definatly not in the current form.  Much debate and negotiations to follow but, a reform bill will be passed.  He will get to take credit but no socialized medicne to follow.  Next.

  •  We should boycott the insurers one-by-one (0+ / 0-)

    Start with Cigna, for example, and just take them down one-by-one.

    Obviously, we can't out-spend them in Congress, but our premiums pay for their profits.

    If we force one into bankruptcy, the others will get the message.

    Time to play some hardball with the big boys.

  •  We need to correct a perception. Aaaannd ACTION! (0+ / 0-)

    (quick cut-scenes, all under 3/4 second each - street view of a Hassidic neighborhood, logo of AIG, interior of mosque, logo of Cigna, stock footage of call centers hopefully staffed by lots of people who don't look like Palinesque "real americans". No crosses visible.)

    (Camera cuts to image of "INSURANCE APPROVAL", as worker clicks checkbox marked "CHRISTIAN", a bright red DENY CLAIM image flashes - on a different screen, so we're not actually saying they're related, just hinting)

    "Under the proposed Republican Healthcare Plan, Insurance CEO's (Fast snapshots of men with yarmulkes playing golf), would appoint poorly-educated minority call-center workers to decide whether your wife and kids can go to the doctor.

    (fade to scene of small medical office, with at least 85% white faces with no skin problems, and at least two crucifixes visible in every image)

    Let's make sure that your health care is decided by your doctor, and not by a non-christian leeching off federal bailout money."

    (cut to stock grainy footage of bearded middle-eastern cleric angrily stating that his car was supposed to be fixed by 3pm - but in arabic, of course. Bearded arabic people who are angry are ALWAYS denouncing America, right?)

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