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Hey all--

Last night I posted a diary whose basic premise was correct, however one of the examples that I used may not have been.  I received a number of emails throughout the day regarding one of the pictures cited for the "massive crowds" as it related to the flag being flown at half staff, among other things.

It appears as though that pic may have been accurate, and since I am always a sticker for being accurate, it is only fair to come clean when I was passing along some information that may not have been correct - even when the underlying premise and other examples are 100% accurate.

The other picture (Promise Keepers) was cited as from yesterday, and it certainly was not.  The nutters were falsely citing ABC reports about crowd size that were never reported by ABC.  And throughout the day, there was much in terms of overestimating the size and scope of the crowds.

Those on the right tend to take one part of an otherwise true story (recall Bush's going AWOL) and make it THE story to cover up the real story. This should not happen here, as one example out of a number does not in any way diminish the overall fact that crowd sizes were overblown by citing things that just did not exist.

But for the one picture that looks like it was accurate, I want to come clean on the info that I received.

Thanks and apologies - but the rightist teabaggers are still lying sacks of crap.....

Originally posted to clammyc on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 05:17 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

    •  Except the premise that they did draw a huge (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Onomastic

      crowd is correct.

      Bill Maher said it best: these guys drive the story because, while many of us sit there yelling at the TV, these guys get out there and scream bloody murder.

      Misinformed as they are, they are correct about one thing: You've got to scream loudly in order to be heard.

      You know we live in strange times when hearing something as simple as the truth almost seems shocking.

      by redhaze on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 05:23:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  huge? hardly. (15+ / 0-)

        tens of thousands when they were expecting hundreds of thousands or millions is hardly huge.

        The immigration rallies drew 600,000 and the Iraq protests drew hundreds of thousands each in a number of cities but were all minimized.

        Those crowds were huge.  These were a tremendous disappointment.

      •  Horseshit! (6+ / 0-)

        They drive the story because the media lets them. On September 25, 2005 "We" were not yelling at the TV; almost half a million os "us" were gathering in Washington D.C. and marching past the White House to urge an end to the occupation of Iraq. This was just as the tide of public opinion was turning; it was just after Cindy Sheehan had made her stand in Crawford. It was THE news story of the hour, and the press ignored it. That pretty much told "us" that for "us" to "take to the streets" was a total and complete waste of time. But that didn't mean we retreated to sitting in front of our TVs (I don't have a functioning one) or our computers doing nothing. We are going to events all over the country. We are talking to and writing to and calling our representatives. We are writing to newspapers, we are joining groups.

        Fact is, "we" could have had 2 million there yesterday and we would NOt have been heard. We learned our lesson: taking to the streets doesn't work for us in this biased media climate.

        Stop Rob "The Job Outsourcer" Portman. Jennifer Brunner for Senate http://www.jenniferbrunner.com/

        by anastasia p on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 05:56:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The color of the narrative (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          clammyc

          The way I see it shaping up, there really are no hippies, no leftists, no progressives, certainly not in any significant numbers. America is a center-right country made of good, clean Christian conservatives who are patiently waiting for another Reagan to lead them back to greatness.

          The traditional media seems intent on this exact storyline. One Teabagger is worth 500 liberals (at least).

          Every day's another chance to stick it to The Man. - dls.

          by The Raven on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:39:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It Was a Small Crowd By Routine Progressiv Measrs (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Miss Blue, clammyc

        As everyone's telling you, progressive turnouts are routinely many times larger than this.

        Progressive getting-out-and-shouting is NOT COVERED by the mainstream media. Which is probably why you're unaware of what we've been doing.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:18:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not unaware of it at all actually (0+ / 0-)

          I do like how much invective my comment has drawn though ;-)

          Good times...

          You know we live in strange times when hearing something as simple as the truth almost seems shocking.

          by redhaze on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 11:36:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks, clammyc! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      panicbean, clammyc, ericlewis0

      I also remember the Rather interview with the secretary where Bush reported for duty saying that she had, in fact, typed exactly what was in those papers (even used the same words/phraseology, IIRC), she just didn't type those particular papers but the info in them was accurate.  Bloody idiotic other press reports never quite remember that part of the interview, do they?  Pisses me off.

      We know mistakes are made, yours was an honest mistake, you've acknowledged it, so apology eccepted - and credit due for the majority of the diary that was accurate.

      We can move on now.

      :-)

      (¯`*._(¯`*._(-PROSECUTE-)_.*´¯)_.*´¯)

      by NonnyO on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:31:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Republican crowd size (7+ / 0-)

    The importance of Republican crowds is never going to be the same as Democratic ones.  Republican leaders ask, "how big is my herd;" Democrats want to know, "did we get what we came for"?

    We already know the Republican herd is shrinking.

    How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

    by hannah on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 05:23:01 AM PDT

  •  So what *are* the official (9+ / 0-)

    attendance estimates? I've seen more moderate estimates from tens of thousands to perhaps 100,000 - 200,000 but what do I know?

    As far as I'm concerned there could be 1,000,000,000 teabaggers there and still only enough brain cells to count on my left hand.

    This space available. Bad credit, no credit, no problem! Financing available!

    by Stand Strong on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 05:26:04 AM PDT

  •  Grumpy looking no wonder- most boring rally ever (4+ / 0-)

    I drove by union station just as it was breaking up and it looked like small clumps of very grumpy people with stupid signs... there is no way there could be more than a few thousand people there (50K would seem high to me)... no crowds, a few spare busses around, a couple of restaurants around union station with a few tables w/ people w/ yellow shirts.. and huge yellow flags that you couldnt read what was on them.

    no wonder they were grumpy, i saw some of the rally on tv before i left and what a BORING rally. UGH. I couldn't even get mad at them -- almost had to feel sorry for them. The CATO speech was great - the audience had NO idea what he was talking about.

  •  I, too (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    p gorden lippy, Onomastic

    am a "sticker" for accuracy, and sometimes a "stickler" as well!

  •  Reading the LA Times coverage of the (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    parryander, skohayes, earicicle, Onomastic

    gathering, I was amused by the lack of message discipline.

    There were antiabortion protesters and term-limit advocates. Critics of financial bailouts and the federal investigation into CIA interrogation techniques. Marchers who were worried about rekindling inflation and upset about the soaring national debt. Pickets opposed to Obama's healthcare reform plan and challenging the legitimacy of his election.

    Hell, except for the numbers, they sound like us!  No Mumia?

    Songs at da web site! "The crisis will happen again, but it will be different."

    by Crashing Vor on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 05:52:01 AM PDT

    •  I think this is a key point (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Crashing Vor, Onomastic

      There was some of that at the September 25, 2005 anti-Iraq war rally too. Understandably people were obsessed with New Orleans at that point, but they had pro-Palestianian speakers and speakers for Native-American rights and just a whole bunch of other stuff. However, the march itself was clearly focused on getting out of Iraq.

      In the case of the teabaggers, what this reveals is just a general sense of negativity — and a generalized anger that they have lost power and that Obama is president. There isn't one strong, constructive thing they can all rally around.

      Stop Rob "The Job Outsourcer" Portman. Jennifer Brunner for Senate http://www.jenniferbrunner.com/

      by anastasia p on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:06:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This Is What Democracy Looks Like (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Crashing Vor

      Ordinary people are not marketing machines.

      I keep reminding people that the huge "anti-war" protests of spring 70 which included the Kent State shootings were broad coalition events in many places.

      At Ohio State they were organized and coordinated by the Afro-Am around black student issues and an unexplained dismissal of several blacks the previous year. Women's lib, anti-war and environmental activists tagged along. Like much from that time, events after the day shaped our impressions of a focus that events didn't always have.

      It's like that on the left, it's like that on the right, because of the total incompatibility of the two visions for America in our time and for the rest of our lives.

      The only time you get message discipline is when there's one huge immediate threat against a group of people. Examples would be the immigrant felonization for Latinos a couple years ago, or the bus riders' and garbage workers' strikes of the 60's civil rights movement.

      Today's teabaggers are protesting progressivism, that's their enemy, not health care specifically.

      That's their right and the disorganized message of it isn't a fault. They're trying to re-establish their coalition to end progressivism.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:28:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oh clammy. There you go doing the responsible (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    clammyc, p gorden lippy, ericlewis0

    thing - apologizing for a mistake and setting the record straight. How grownup and thoughtful of you.

    But, but, does this mean that you're.....gasp.....
    a commie librul!?

    Oh nooooooosss!!

    "It begins with you!" President Barack Obama

    by Onomastic on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 05:57:10 AM PDT

  •  "Yes, the picture is real, nutroots" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miss Blue, skohayes, p gorden lippy

    ..by the always classy Michelle Malkin.

    http://michellemalkin.com/...

    She wouldn't put a real number or estimate how many were there though. A more realistic figure was 60-70 thousand but of course she won't leave that up on her frontpage.

    Conservative activists, who organized a march on the U.S. Capitol today in protest of the Obama administration's health care agenda and government spending, erroneously attributed reports on the size of the crowds to ABC News.

    Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, the group that organized the event, said on stage at the rally that ABC News was reporting that 1 million to 1.5 million people were in attendance.

    At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as "tens of thousands."

    Brendan Steinhauser, spokesman for FreedomWorks, said he did not know why Kibbe cited ABC News as a source.

    As a result of Kibbe's erroneous attribution, several bloggers and commenters repeated the misinformation.

    http://abcnews.go.com/...

    Considering this was in the works for about 6 months, and was getting almost daily ramming by Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, et al, those numbers strike me as disappointingly low for the baggers.

    But it doesn't matter. They got more coverage for their little rally than any of the anti-war marches or the immigration marches of a few years ago which were far larger.

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:02:30 AM PDT

  •  But what about this statement you made.... (0+ / 0-)

    in that diary last night:

    ...the photo is missing the National Museum of the American Indian (opened in 2004), and the trees are a bit fuller in the pic than they are now.

    I was on mobile last night and couldn't check out the veracity of that claim and it's the one that gave me pause.  Where did this claim come from?  

    "When all you have is an assault rifle every problem looks like a target." - Something the Dog Said

    by PvtJarHead on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:06:09 AM PDT

  •  More Signs (of filth and moral decay) (6+ / 0-)

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

    The illegitimate President meme is alive and well with these patriots.

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

    A Joe Wilson fan, no doubt.

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

    This one is sort of clever, in a perverted sort of way. At least the spelling is correct for once.

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

    I guess they didn't have room for Chairman Mao.

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

    Glenn Beck for President. How'd you like to live in that country? (Or inhabit her brain.)

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

    Freedom, not Health Care. Freedom. Got it?

    And my personal favorite...

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

    "Officer, arrest that man! He's a damn communist!"

    Edward Kimmel, 58, of Takoma Park, Md., is confronted by opponents of a government run health-care insurance option.

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:06:30 AM PDT

    •  You get a rec... (5+ / 0-)

      solely for the last picture.

      I couldn't care less what these morons have to say about anything.  Anything.  I cut ALL Republicans out of my life about 3 years ago and it's the best thing I've ever done.  I'm sure I've added years to my lifespan just by the reduction in stress.

      I won't talk to them, I won't listen to them, I won't do business with them.  In fact, I've been going through a water damage restoration the past two weeks.  The lead workman started spouting off about Obama and HC - unfortunately, in my presence.

      He was told in no uncertain terms that I am paying the bill and I will not tolerate his garbage in my building.  Further, apologize or pick up your tools and get the hell out.  The apology came instantly.

      And since this guy was a sub-contractor, the general contractor was called and told, with a liberal dose of four-letter words, that I will not stand for my President being bashed in my building, by people I am paying.  The next day Mr. Sub-contractor was gone.  

      Silence is the enemy - Green Day 4330+ dead - Bring them home

      by Miss Blue on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:40:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The biggest health rally of the season (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miss Blue, clammyc, skohayes

    275,000 hard count at Seattle's Hempfest a month ago. (with only 1 entrypoint, they had clickers counting each entrant.)

    when the Obama transition team set up a website to seek public input for healthcare reform, medical marijuana came out on top, handily.

    Perhaps the reform package would have had a less rocky road if the President had offered the people what they want? I suspect inclusion of med mj  would have neutralized 15% of the opposition from the Ron Paul crowd.



    Medical Marijuana is Healthcare. does YOUR bill cover it?

    by ben masel on Sun Sep 13, 2009 at 06:44:28 AM PDT

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