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Yesterday Markos pointed out the obvious about efforts to go after Republicans opposed to health care reform -- it's a waste of time and money:

The American people elected huge Democratic majorities because they wanted Democratic solutions to many of our nation's problems. Not because they wanted Democrats to allow Republicans -- the cause of most of our problems -- to continue running the government. Yet even now, after months of Democratic obstruction, the best these "White House allies" can do is lob barbs at irrelevant Republicans.

They should focus their fire on the individuals who are actually the problem.

And now the Progressive Change Campaign Committee and Democracy For America have a new ad to "Hold Snowe Accountable," aimed at convincing Olympia Snowe (R-ME) to support a public option. And it's a great ad -- powerful and moving:

Now imagine this ad running in the Max Baucus-Caucus and Blue Dog states against the Democrats who are standing in the way of real health care reform. Let's pressure the people who can make things happen instead of pretending that getting a lone Republican vote on a watered-down bill would mean victory.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:10 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I think it would be easier if (4+ / 0-)

    we started a group to push her to switch parties.

    Clings to Music and Yankee baseball

    by Mro on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:11:47 AM PDT

  •  Ever a situation where GOP doesn't run things? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CityLightsLover, k8dd8d

    Well said, Kos

    The Seminole Democrat
    A blue voice calling from the deep red

    by SemDem on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:11:50 AM PDT

  •  But if we target Blue Dogs and conservadems (17+ / 0-)

    Rahm the Magnificent will emerge from behind the curtain, go into full finger-wagging mode, and warn us never to speak evil of an officeholder with a (D) after his or her name.

    < quakes in his boots >

    "You can never guarantee victory, but you can guarantee defeat."--Hall of Fame baseball writer Leonard Koppett.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:12:37 AM PDT

    •  Rahm Can Smooch my Arse. n/t (7+ / 0-)

      Dems, get some guts, or we'll KICK YER BUTTS!

      by CityLightsLover on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:13:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  His problem is that (4+ / 0-)

      he wags his middle finger and it only makes the "left of the left" more determined to tell him to bugger off.

      •  It's like what happened in 2003 (7+ / 0-)

        Al From and Bruce Reed of the DLC wrote the infamous op-ed, The Real Soul of the Democratic Party, in which they stereotyped progressives as over-educated elitists who were wimps on national security.

        I've love to offer both From and Reed a big, foaming pint of STFU.

        "You can never guarantee victory, but you can guarantee defeat."--Hall of Fame baseball writer Leonard Koppett.

        by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:22:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Amazing how some folks (5+ / 0-)

          can sit within their bubbles and pontificate without actually getting their asses out and talking to progressives.  First, there is no such thing as "over-educated."  Lots of degrees with no common sense is another thing.

          The most progressive folks I know are nuns who are not necessarily political.  They nurses, teachers, doctors, lawyers, dieticians, etc.  They have worked decades with the desparately poor and bullied local governments to pay attention to the consequences of poverty.  One was a nurse in Liberia during the civil war -- she provided trauma care, psychological comfort and encouragement to teach children to reclaim their power of citizenship.

          So fuck the real elitists in D.C. -- I'll stick with the ground workers.

          •  What makes the irony especially delicious (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GN1927

            One of these guys was a Rhodes scholar and the other got his master's at Northwestern.

            "You can never guarantee victory, but you can guarantee defeat."--Hall of Fame baseball writer Leonard Koppett.

            by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:37:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Jesse Jackson called the DLC (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              daeros

              the "Democratic Leisure Class" and he was spot on.

              Can't believe that the DLC would attack anyone else (other than the GOP) as elitist!

              I am not the first President to take up this cause, but I am determined to be the last.-President Obama

              by GN1927 on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 02:33:37 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  If the tone is kept civil (12+ / 0-)

      I think it's alright to target democrats. That's what I liked about the Snowe ad. It wasn't demeaning. The woman's tone was pitch perfect, to make you want to be on her side. It was just a nudge.

      Not everything has to be in your face. Republicans have no problem with keeping their representatives in line. We shouldn't either.

      Today's problems are yesterday's solutions. Don Beck

      by Sherri in TX on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:29:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Send him back to ChiTown to spend more (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tennessee Dave

      quality time with his family.

      I live at the bottom of the state (and the bottom of the mean income ladder too), i won't smell him from here.

      IGTNT...Honor the Fallen...Respect Their Loved Ones.

      by geez53 on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:58:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Terry thanks for staying vigilent (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rhonan

      I get tired for being called crazy for pointing out the obvious.

      If we want ANY chance at ending the sabotage brought on by Blue Dogs, we need rahm OUT of the white house by Jan 1.

      If we have any hope of keeping or winning more seats, Rahm has to go.

      He has reshaped the DNC and Obama's political machine, he has made a big point to neuter every progresive group he can.

      It should be a point that the PCCC did NOT bend to Rahm and the killing of HCAN.

      PCCC: http://boldprogressives.org
      TYT: http://www.theyoungturks.com

      by George Pirpiris on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 11:47:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Rahm can go take a flying leap. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      daeros

      I don't care if someone is a Republican or a Democrat.  I care whether they are progressive or not.  Blue-dog Democrats are no different from Republicans when it comes to getting the change done we need.  I would rather support a Republican who votes for the public option than a Democrat who votes against it.

      I hope more progressive organizations would realize that we lose nothing when a Republican beats a Blue-dog.  We only win when we put a progressive in that seat.  If anything, we would be better served if we remember that the GOPosaurs are not our biggest threat, it is the DINOs we need to focus our energy on getting out of power.

  •  Carrot and stick, start hitting hard (5+ / 0-)

    where the hell is our leadership?>??

    The Seminole Democrat
    A blue voice calling from the deep red

    by SemDem on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:12:43 AM PDT

  •  Y'all Should've Heard the GOPers (16+ / 0-)

    this morning in the first mark - up session for Maxie's bill. There is no hope in any attempts to "bring them around"; there wasn't any hope to begin with. Continuing to try to do so is the textbook definition of insanity.

    Dems, get some guts, or we'll KICK YER BUTTS!

    by CityLightsLover on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:13:13 AM PDT

  •  that is a slam dunk ad (13+ / 0-)

    let's get one on the air against every BlueDog who is throwing up roadblocks.

    "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
    --Tom Harkin

    by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:13:31 AM PDT

    •  this ad makes no sense! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silverbird

      Olympia Snowe has proposed an amendment that would provide a public option.  It's got a B.S. trigger that can never get pulled, but her easy comeback is that "I do support a public option and have proposed it"!

      She needs to be attacked for trying to mislead the people of Maine with her B.S. trigger, not because she doesn't support a public option.

      The ad will not be effective, look for her to quickly claim she supports a public option.

      •  And that is the point (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rhonan

        but for me the ad is a nice attack on Rahm Emanuel who has clearly courted her to kill the public option so that no blood is on our hands, where Snowe can brag about it as a hero of sorts.

        Taking this ad out on her is a hit against the DLC and bluedogs who always claim they must have a republican with them.

        God Bless, and go forward.

        I suggest you donate as the DNC's political arm is shut down.

        PCCC: http://boldprogressives.org
        TYT: http://www.theyoungturks.com

        by George Pirpiris on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 11:50:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He and the President have courted her (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rhonan

          to get a 60th vote, and give cover to conservadems in order to get more of their votes (as the bill becomes 'bipartisan' with an R.

          The trigger is the only realistic way to pass a bill that has the public option without going through reconciliation.

          If it goes to reconciliation, there is still no guarantee the p.o. will be in there, or that it will pass if it is.

          •  I would rather lose the PO to process, then to (0+ / 0-)

            Caving to the DLC and GOP.

            And if somehow our party can court a Republican, but not a party member outright, we have huge messaging issues.

            Can we please ask Dean real nice like to come back to the DNC?
            If we lose in 2010, the bottom will fall out of the base.

            PCCC: http://boldprogressives.org
            TYT: http://www.theyoungturks.com

            by George Pirpiris on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 12:51:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Sometimes, we need to think like Republicans (0+ / 0-)

        Pass the bill with the trigger.  Make the trigger even stronger, and balance that with more generous rules that will never come into play because of the trigger.  Everyone get's to pat them selves on the back.  Then at the end of the session, when other issues are dominating the news, rush through a bill that removes the trigger.  Justify it as either a response to some disaster, or as an economic recovery act.

  •  I think it's crunch time. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mimikatz, littlebird33
    It's now time to focus not on the provisions we want but the provisions we can't live with being watered down.  For me, that's the affordability provisions -- the the subsidies, the minimum benefits package, the community rating and the latitude insurance companies are given to rate premiums, the Exchange -- and the employer mandate.  It's not the public option, which I support but can live without.

    I'll diary this later in the day.

    jim bow, ASA, MAAA

    by jim bow on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:13:39 AM PDT

    •  I have to disagree (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GN1927, Silverbird, ronlib

      I think without the cost reductions and competition provided by a strong public option, that no amount of regulation, (beyond an outright banning of profits and treating HC insurance like a utility) is going to keep the system sustainable. Your better benefits won't last long and the whole system will continue rushing towards the cliff.

      •  Plenty of ways to lower costs besides the PO. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        littlebird33

        You could eliminate all mandated benefits and minimum benefits packages, and allow families to purchase $200,000 deductible policies.  That would certainly make health insurance affordable to all and give people more choice of doctor.

        But that's not why Democrats are doing this legislation.  We're doing this legislation to prevent medical bankruptcies.  That's our primary goal of this bill.  The bill would be pathetic if it couldn't do something as basic as this.  The public option -- particularly when 162+ million Americans who get health insurance through their employer don't have access to it -- does very, very little to accomplish this goal.

        jim bow, ASA, MAAA

        by jim bow on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 11:05:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  disagree again. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GN1927

          How does a $200,000 deductible prevent people from going bankrupt? Besides there are more reason in addition to just preventing bankruptcies. Universal coverage has been a Democratic rallying cry for decades.
          I believe the public option should be open to all instead of the small number that is projected now, but I think it can be expanded more easily once it's in place.
          I have no faith in mandating lower benefits to reduce costs since the same people writing the legislation are the same ones who are out to kill the popular public option because of the insurance companies. The only way regulation is going to reduce costs significantly is if the insurance industry is held to maximum profit margins like public utilities. That's never going to happen.
          I remain convinced that of the various schemes I've heard presented, offering a public option that is eventually open to all, as direct competition to the insurance companies,is the best way to get the soaring costs under control.

    •  They would just cheat and say "So? Sue me" nt (0+ / 0-)
    •  And why would there be an issue (0+ / 0-)

      getting comprehensive reform through two Dem-controlled chambers?

      It's not like we're demanding single payer.

      Regulations + a strong PO are very little to ask for, and are what the public expects at this point.  I hope that there aren't people willing to risk Dem majorities by not delivering on the mandate for which the public gave Dems the WH and both congressional chambers.

      I am not the first President to take up this cause, but I am determined to be the last.-President Obama

      by GN1927 on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 02:36:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Umm, the Snowe ad is liberals doing to Snowe (18+ / 0-)

    what conservatives have been doing to Democrats who are from relatively conservative districts.  Snowe is from Maine, a relatively liberal state. She SHOULD face pressure for her conservative stands.

    •  There's been too much love-festing (9+ / 0-)

      with the likes of Snowe and Collins. Dems assume that they can't be beaten because they're so "moderate". The only reason that might be true is that Dems refuse to play hardball like this ad does. It's not just about their health care stance -- it's about showing what really lurks behind the "moderate" smileyfaces. Either they start living up to their image or they get exposed.

      The standard should not be whether there's a D or an R after a name. Pretend-liberals of every party should be attacked without mercy and replaced with the real thing.

      Everybody talkin' 'bout Heaven ain't goin' there -- Mahalia Jackson

      by DaveW on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:23:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I keep getting fundraising letters (10+ / 0-)

    every day from "famous" Democrats telling me I must - MUST - contribute to the DSSC so that healthcare reform can be "saved" from the Republicans.  It really needs to be saved from the "Democrats".

    •  Send them back with a few choice, well-placed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GN1927, trumpeter

      words of encouragement.

      Democracy needs accountability. Investigate and prosecute the Torture Thirteen.

      by Mimikatz on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:48:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yup. Targetting Snowe is a joke - it's the DEMS (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silverbird

      who are the problem, particularly Obama, who is the one by far most responsible for this whole debacle.

      Obama has by all appearances been sabotaging real reform, equivocating and blocking the enactment of a real public option. He didn't even allow the consideration of single payer, claiming it was too unAmerican/insufficently free market (read "not corporate friendly"). He worked behind the scenes to promote the Baucus bill, one of the most regressive, corporate-friendly pieces of dung ever put forth by a "Democrat". His idea of a public option is a so watered down and corporate friendly, and his way of advocating for the public option was so equivocating, vague, and half-hearted that at best it looks like a PR stunt intented to keep all the gullible suckers who voted for him on board.

      His actions - or really lack of actions - are all apiece with his approach to Wall Street and the financial industry, where he failed to take advantage of a once in lifetime opportunity with the near collapse of the world economy and refused to initiate even the most basic reforms - leaving the little guy to suffer the consequences.

      For those who need reams and reams of evidence to believe anything bad about the hero they thought they voted for, here's some to start on -

      Wendell Potter

      http://www.slate.com/...

      http://www.delawareonline.com/...

      http://www.rollingstone.com/...

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

      http://www.salon.com/...

  •  Sen. Byrd was just rushed to the ER (5+ / 0-)

    Sorry to thread jack

    Clings to Music and Yankee baseball

    by Mro on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:14:43 AM PDT

  •  They HAVE been running those ads... (13+ / 0-)

    They ran one against Ben Nelson.

    Ben nelson actually had to run his own ads because it was causing him so much damage.

  •  . (0+ / 0-)

    "Whatever it takes, for as long as it takes! Healthcare For All!" Support HR 676 Healthcare For All Now!

    by ezdidit on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:15:26 AM PDT

  •  They're runing an ad against Blanche Licoln... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rmrice

    ...and Mike Ross, too.

  •  Throw those (0+ / 0-)

    blue dogs some sticks.

  •  Kos is right. It is the ONLY way we get reform (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, North Coast Ohioan
  •  Please think of the Health Care Executives!! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sherri in TX, GN1927, LNK, JC from IA

    <div style="text-align:left;font-size:x-small;margin-top:0;width:512px;">Protect Insurance Companies PSA from Will Ferrell</div>

    I suffer from post-partisan depression. (h/t Barney Frank)

    by JanF on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:18:32 AM PDT

  •  Ah, so the goal at DK is NOT health care reform (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silverbird

    per se, but rather health care reform as determined
    by certain 'progressives'.

    It's not the ends, but the means that is important here.

    Pathetic.

    •  If there is no Public Option... (4+ / 0-)

      ...we don't have "reform".  Period.

      Without a PO, it is just Welfare for Insurance Companies.

      •  Which responds to my post how, exactly? (0+ / 0-)

        Seriously.  I know what the ends are.  I am more convinced than ever that the self-described 'progressives' here are far more interested in trying to leverage some mystical influence they think they have somehow 'earned' to dictate not what is passed, but that it gets passed on their terms.

        Maybe you can help me out here: Which politicians in the national forum have been elected on this 'progressive' platform in the last four decades due to the massive turnout of 'progressive' voters to support 'their' candidates?

        •  So the centrists who have achieved all that (0+ / 0-)

          the Democrats are should continue to disregard the will of the majority of citizens (of either party) to have Expanded medicare for all.  'scuse me whiile I go away.  You centrists will never see my vote ever again.

          ...do the elites...actually believe that society can be destroyed by anyone except those who lead them? - John Ralston Saul -

          by Silverbird on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 01:03:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Between 60 to 70%... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GN1927, Radical def

          ...of Americans support the Public Option.

          The Progressives here are not trying to leverage Mystical Influence, we actually have broad-based public opinion on our side.

          (In addition to being in-step with public opinion, we are also correct, moral, just, rational, patriotic, and good-looking.  But we are always those things, even when we are unpopular).

          •  Tell it to the Senate Finance Committee. (0+ / 0-)

            They seem rather less impressed with the polls than corporate campaign cash.

            And, since this issue isn't up for a public referendum, they will choose accordingly, no doubt.

            But, back to your response to my post...

    •  Yeah, right. (4+ / 0-)

      Progressives should just shut the fuck up so wise "moderates" can keep on showering us with their golden wisdom. Go away.

      Everybody talkin' 'bout Heaven ain't goin' there -- Mahalia Jackson

      by DaveW on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:44:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, but it might help if they actually elected (0+ / 0-)

        some people to national office, before making demands that their 'massive' influence doesn't warrant.

        Hint: Trying to take credit for elections simply because you want to doesn't count.

        •  If our party can't figure out we are Democrats (0+ / 0-)

          and we have a party platform, then we don't deserve to be in power.
          Progressivism is nothing new, and I resent your MSM take that it is some fringe belief.

          Obama should have known better before selling the store to a group of Al From wannabes and Regan fan boys, and all their lobbyists.

          PCCC: http://boldprogressives.org
          TYT: http://www.theyoungturks.com

          by George Pirpiris on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 11:42:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Show me the numbers, then: (0+ / 0-)

            Which national candidates have 'progressives' elected in the last four decades, for starters?

            •  Barack Obama. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              GN1927, Silverbird

              Regardless of his flip flops,  Americans lined up to vote in a liberal black man.

              Now sure he has fallen prey to bad advisers, and folks who don't care about policy or the party.

              You are writing off progressives,  if they are so incompetent, what is the alternative?

              Because the Blue Dogs have crashed our party for 2 decades now.

              And speaking of which who doesn't feel sorry for Jim Cooper, he wanted to kill health care again but wasn't in position to do it.
              He tried to post on HP and got shot down.
              Haven't heard from him since.

              PCCC: http://boldprogressives.org
              TYT: http://www.theyoungturks.com

              by George Pirpiris on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 12:15:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Oh, bullshit. (0+ / 0-)

                Barack Obama was dead center down the middle of the road, and no amount of progressive self-delusion can change that.

                Moreover, progressives had the choice of Barack Obama, John McCain, or someone else who could not have actually won the election.

                •  That is the very reason (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JC from IA

                  to listen to party progressives.  No one who is a Democrat can have failed to notice the the Democrats always join the Repurlicans in defeating anything that would help the less than rich citizens.  I have watched them move right since the 1950s.  It is becomeing a waste of time and money to support this party.

                  ...do the elites...actually believe that society can be destroyed by anyone except those who lead them? - John Ralston Saul -

                  by Silverbird on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 01:12:38 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Why the defeatist attitude? Is it in our DNA? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Radical def

                    Who said every Democrat is a Democrat.

                    We should have raised hell when Rahm sleezed his way into the office.

                    Don't forget, the base can and should shape the president.

                    Bush did not get record fundraising and win re-election without the base.

                    You might be older than me and have experience, but understand I view the Democratic party as a vehicle.

                    We live in a 2 party country,  the sooner you except that, the sooner you can focus on fighting our enemies from within.

                    Funny how we haven't heard a peep from that bush press secretary, yet Lanny Davis is still writing columns, talking on TV, and lobbying for corporations allw hile wearing the badge "Democrat strategist"

                    A good party would have gone the length to smear him out of business.

                    PCCC: http://boldprogressives.org
                    TYT: http://www.theyoungturks.com

                    by George Pirpiris on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 01:26:32 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Right now the Democratic Party looks (0+ / 0-)

                      like a wing of the Republican Party.  What do they support that is populist.  They gave up on their base during the clinton years, if not before, and have no base.  The reason Democrat won the last election is that Bush was so horrible and people were sick of his crooked administration.  It was not because we like the Democrats we had to chose from.  Even this site is not representative of the Democratic left anymore.  Frankley, I have not seen an acutal Democrat since a generation ago.  So maybe you aren't old enough to remember when Democrats were on the side of working people who were not rich.

                      ...do the elites...actually believe that society can be destroyed by anyone except those who lead them? - John Ralston Saul -

                      by Silverbird on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 01:33:34 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  And that explains razer thin (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Radical def

                        majorities in 2000 and 2004 for Bush?

                        I could easily say to you that Bush won by luck and name the "good ole boys" liked in 2000, and then 911 got his party more gov seats, the congress and re-election.

                        That is as valid as you saying Obama only won because Bush was so terrible.

                        Had 911 not happened, things would be different.

                        Look I don't care about the purity of the party, I care about the here and now.

                        We have scum bags in our party, and I fully support flushing them out, do you?

                        If so then focus on that, or let it go.

                        We are 2 party country, the conservative party will continue to walk strong, and guess what, some of those shitheads bleed into our party, we got to get rid of them too.

                        Im not giving up yet, I have seen where apathy has led us in the past.
                        And I am old enough to remember idiot friends of mine in college, so oblivious to the real world and politics that they voted for Nader.

                        PCCC: http://boldprogressives.org
                        TYT: http://www.theyoungturks.com

                        by George Pirpiris on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 01:42:41 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  While that may be a valid point, it is scarcely (0+ / 0-)

                    relevant to the question.  If progressives want to be players, then they need to get their people into the game; just bitching about party politics or individual candidates won't cut it.

                    Actual organization and grunt work would be a start; posting on blogs is easier, but far less effective.

                  •  I'm having to struggle to keep from (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    George Pirpiris

                    HRing your remarks, Silverbird.

                    WTF are you here for, if not to change the sorry situation?  To try to demoralize Democrats, and peel some away, for some bullshit boycott or "alternative" party line?

                    That's how the Republicans managed to seize and hold power, just barely, for so long, is precisely because of such absolutist idealist slagging of "teh Democrats", with no differentiation between the Blue Dog elements and the Progressive Caucus elements, asserting "no difference" between Republicans and Democrats.

                    Yes the Blue Dogs are a problem...resulting from 30 years of low voter turnout and suppression, by hook and by crook, of likely Democratic voters.

                    The solution to that is to rally the 100 milllion who did not vote last time, even for Obama, due to their disgust with Blue Dogs, and that contrived perception of "no difference" between the parties...to mobilize the electorate to purge the Blue Dogs, and what remains of the Republicans, to the greatest extent possible, in 2010 and 2012.

                    What we need is a knock-down drag out fight within the party, to purge the Blue Dogs from all levers of power...that will perk up peoples' interest in the Democrats, and entice them to join the fray...

                    Your line, Silverbird, only seems aimed at driving people away from the party altogether, in defeatist cynicism, which is not going to help in any way.

                    "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

                    by Radical def on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 02:39:12 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  So he won the primary how? (0+ / 0-)

                  Im not talking about the man, but the product.

                  Funny how republians think he is a liberal extremist and you think the opposite.

                  You can make him as liberal as you want, but I doubt you support any progressive campaigns that apply pressure to blue dogs.

                  But again, you weren't excited to see the most corrupt blue dog go down today, so that does speak volumes to where your loyalty lies.

                  You think Obama is a fraud, but fraudulent Blue Dogs is just another day in dc.

                  PCCC: http://boldprogressives.org
                  TYT: http://www.theyoungturks.com

                  by George Pirpiris on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 01:28:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  By out-campaigning everyone else. (0+ / 0-)

                    And, I still don't see any numbers from you, do I.

                    •  How about the Progressive Caucus majority? n/t (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      George Pirpiris

                      "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

                      by Radical def on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 02:29:04 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  What about them? (0+ / 0-)

                        Again, taking credit for elections isn't the same thing as actually winning elections.

                        Do you have numbers?

                        •  Easy, DONATIONS from citizens (0+ / 0-)

                          I don't know whose battle you are fighting here?

                          Are you even a Democrat?  Because you are implying that ALL of Obama's primary voters and donors were duped by his "extra campaigning"

                          I can't tell if you are a disgruntled PUMA or something else even more sinister.

                          The main thing Obama did that dissapointed me was not lobybing a concerted effort to shut down the DLC and disperse the Bush Dog coalitions.

                          PCCC: http://boldprogressives.org
                          TYT: http://www.theyoungturks.com

                          by George Pirpiris on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 02:46:12 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  More bullshit. (0+ / 0-)

                            What I'm stating explicitly, which is different than implying, is that I see very little evidence that the self-described 'progressives' have anything like the political clout that many on this blog seem to think that they do.

                            What I am also stating explicitly is that you have not and apparently cannot show any evidence to the contrary.

                            Obama won the nomination because he ran a better campaign than the other contestants.  There is no evidence to suggest that he ran as anything other than the centrist he has always been.

                        •  dont recall number, but it's a majority, heh (0+ / 0-)

                          Within the Democratic Majority, as I understand it.

                          And hopefully, that will become a Progressive Caucus super-majority in Congress, in 2010 or 2012, and all down the ladders of power, to the state and local levels, on their coat tails.

                          Then we can cut off at the knees any further "debate" and sabotage, from whatever remains of a minority Blue Dog/Republican cabal, and actually surge forward, and get some stuff done.

                          Would you have a problem with that, JC?

                          I think the electorate responded to Obama's rhetoric for hope, and change, at least as much as they were rejecting the awful prospect of Palin/Joel's Army.

                          The right is no longer politically correct in this country, and that's a good thing.

                          "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

                          by Radical def on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 02:49:29 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

    •  The Baucus bill is worse than none at all (3+ / 0-)

      It gives the insurance industry a huge captive audience, and does little to rein in abusive practices by insurance companies ranging from excessive paperwork to lack of transparency to runaway salaries and marketing expenses.

      Worse yet, this so-called reform will use up Obama's political capital, making it impossible to revisit the issue and come up with real reform legislation.

      "You can never guarantee victory, but you can guarantee defeat."--Hall of Fame baseball writer Leonard Koppett.

      by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:48:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think it's a good ad. (7+ / 0-)

    And why not do both? Anyone who is in a position to influence the outcome should be pressured. It appears that Snowe is in such a position. Unfortunately.

    I like it that a Republican gets called out for a change. The bad guys aren't only Democrats.

  •  On the Blue Dog Democrats (3+ / 0-)

    James E. Cornette:

    The so-called "Blue Dog Democrats" who oppose Obama's plan are doing it for one reason: they have to go back to their generally blue-collar, working-class, lack of higher-education redneck constituencies and explain to them why they voted for the progressive policies that will benefit them, but which they have been led to believe are Anti-American and thus somehow evil.

    These folks are listening to the conservative Christian Republicans' fear mongering, and don't have the time or apparently the intellect to investigate the facts.

    They better HOPE they retain the right to carry guns, they'll need them when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and they have to hunt squirrels for dinner.

    http://www.jimcornette.com/...

    "There are three great destroyers of mankind: Plague, Famine and Hero." -- Benjamin Franklin

    by MrJM on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:19:28 AM PDT

    •  And if Mike Huckabee gets elected president (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      math4barack, JC from IA

      He'll take to the airwaves and explain to those voters the best ways to cook those squirrels.

      "You can never guarantee victory, but you can guarantee defeat."--Hall of Fame baseball writer Leonard Koppett.

      by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:24:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bullshit. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silverbird, Radical def, trumpeter

      They shouldn't have to go out and investigate the facts. It's their "representative's" job to explain why those policies will benefit them. If they can't or won't communicate they have no business in politics. The problem is not the constituencies -- it's the incompetence and cowardice of Blue Dogs. And the bribery.

      Everybody talkin' 'bout Heaven ain't goin' there -- Mahalia Jackson

      by DaveW on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:49:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree completely. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silverbird, 3goldens, Radical def

    Bi-partisanship is a waste of time.

    If people wanted conservative solutions for this country-they would have put more conservatives in office.

    On political conservatives: "I was so shocked I nearly dropped the Bible I was using to help me masturbate into my gun." Bill Maher

    by lyvwyr101 on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:19:52 AM PDT

  •  Thank you for posting these ads here.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    esquimaux, Jantman

    It makes me realize how isolated America is--there is NO WAY that Conservatives in other industrialized nations would even think of having our absurd for-profit health insurance system.

    Media Reform Action Link http://stopbigmedia.com/

    by LNK on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:20:15 AM PDT

    •  Teh conservatives in Norway think (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LNK

      Obama is too conservative.  Norwegan conservatives support their social safety net, which we consider somehow too socialistic (as if anyone here knows the meaning of that word).

      ...do the elites...actually believe that society can be destroyed by anyone except those who lead them? - John Ralston Saul -

      by Silverbird on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 01:14:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Word of the day: diversion (3+ / 0-)

    The reason Congress doesn't go after the actual problem also should be obvious.  Congress, on both sides of the aisle, is beholden to insurance and pharmaceutical conglomerates.  Party attacks on each other make a dandy diversion, however, to keep the public from addressing the fact that most of us have been disenfranchised.

  •  I'm going to disagree with you on this one, Barb, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DaveW, Bush Bites, Radical def

    ...and here's why.

    Snowe's actions make her exceedingly vulnerable; they present us with an opportunity to cancel her membership in the Senate.

    Period.

    It's a gift-horse that's worth what---probably 4 or 5 million USD in donations?

    Remember---every swing of the axe brings the invasive GOP tree closer to falling....

    The only good freeper is the one found at the bottom of an ocean....

    by Liberal Panzer on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:23:24 AM PDT

  •  I could see them treating the Blue Dogs different (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sherri in TX

    A cuff to the side of the head behind closed doors.

    Public humiliation should be saved for Repubs.

    www.governmentisgood.com

    by Bush Bites on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:23:29 AM PDT

  •  Hear, hear!!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    esquimaux, North Coast Ohioan

    Spineless, crooked Democrats who have been bribed (yes, bribed) by corporate lobbyists are the problem.

    Let's pressure the people who can make things happen instead of pretending that getting a lone Republican vote on a watered-down bill would mean victory.

    Of course, it makes it hard to pressure them when the President is busy cowtowing to them :(

  •  Why coddle Olympia Snowe? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    math4barack, Radical def

    She's asked for this. Her state wants effective health care reform.

    We can take Ross et al to the woodshed too, and should.

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:28:27 AM PDT

  •  Unfortunately, Sen Snowe has been promoted (3+ / 0-)

    to the decider.

    Schumer and the rest of the Democratic Caucus agreed that they would pursue legislation that could get 60 votes.

    Since Sen Byrd might not be able to make it for a cloture vote and they aren't sure if all of the Senators who caucus with the Democrats would vote for cloture for a health care reform bill with the public option, this means that Senator Snowe gets to write this committee's bill.

    And they won't use reconciliation (in the legal but hardball way). So, they would need 60 votes to overcome objections that the Byrd rule is being violated. And they would not have that.

    Thus, the need for 60 votes.

    And thus, the HELP bill will have to give way on the differences to the Baucus bill.

    In conference, probably the Baucus bill becomes the final bill. The only way that this doesn't happen is if the Progressive Caucus produces a public, credible whip count of 40 votes against any bill without a public option. It would also help if Rockefeller and Cantwell insist upon a public option.

    Right now, if I were a betting person, I would bet that the Baucus bill becomes the final bill (after amendments (other than the public option ) are added).

    And it would suck.

    It would hurt my wife and I personally.

  •  We could end this debate and get a public option (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DaveW

    if we would organize our own march on Washington DC.

    Show the tea baggers what a real demonstration is, by showing millions of public option supporters on all cable news outlets (except fox of course).

    Isn't this what FDR did?

    Didn't he say something to the effect of "I have the agenda, now make me do it".

  •  It has always (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fat old man

    been our defeat, when we win, to not have all our ducks in a row. We won, but only because the other side lost, and this is why. We made such a great case against anything Bush, that the middle saw conservatism as a failure and decided to lean a little left. Now that improvement is slow, policies iffy, and broken campaign promises mounting, the middle is beginning to slide back to the right because we don't have Bush to blame anymore. If we don't start coming together on our policies, and back them in a Democrat unified manner, this will be a short two years of what was supposed to be complete power in government. We laughed at the Republicans when they were in power and got little done. Now their shoes are starting to fit nicely on our feet.

  •  But you're forgetting the rule (0+ / 0-)

    Blue Dogs are allowed to go unchallenged and progressives must bend to their will for the good of the party.
    It's just the same game all over.
    Democrats, even with a majority, have to defer to the Republicans, and within the party progressives, even with a majority, have to defer to Blue Dogs.

  •  great post (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radical def

    good article,

    lets vote all these right wing nuts out of office next time

    the dems and the repugs both

  •  Obama is doing us a favor. (0+ / 0-)

    He shows that neither party is on the side of regular citizens.  Who was it that said America is a one party state and it has two right wings.

    ...do the elites...actually believe that society can be destroyed by anyone except those who lead them? - John Ralston Saul -

    by Silverbird on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:46:51 AM PDT

  •  And what, precisely (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JC from IA

    are we supposed to do about, for example, Feinstein?  She was elected with a sizable majority, has no viable democratic primary opponents, and has lots of big money supporters in her pocket (and vice-versa) in any case.

    She won't listen to us - she has proven that repeatedly - and does whatever she pleases.  What pressures can be brought to bear on her?  What rpessures that she will notice, that is.

    My life is an open book, and I want a rewrite!

    by trumpeter on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:47:16 AM PDT

    •  Find a tolerable RINO (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ronlib, North Coast Ohioan

      to run against her in the general if necessary. After wounding her in a primary demolition derby. Even if she survives, she'll make a good cautionary example for others.

      Everybody talkin' 'bout Heaven ain't goin' there -- Mahalia Jackson

      by DaveW on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:57:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tolerable RINO (0+ / 0-)

        In California?

        More likely to end up with Ahnuld.

        Besides, we want the office to move to the left, not the right.

        My life is an open book, and I want a rewrite!

        by trumpeter on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 12:21:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think I'd prefer Arnold. (0+ / 0-)

          Like I said, go for a primary first. I can't believe an honest liberal couldn't beat her in CA. But if not, she needs to be made an example of in the general. There will always be asses in Congress, but maybe its better that at least they're on the other side instead of infecting ours.

          Everybody talkin' 'bout Heaven ain't goin' there -- Mahalia Jackson

          by DaveW on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 09:54:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  That's good advice (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DaveW, Radical def

    a lot of diaries are wasted here gossiping about people whose votes or minds we will never, ever change without a hammer.

    We should seize on things like the Mike Ross corruption scandal (big hammer) and supporting this substantially effective ad against Snowe.

    Make mine a Medicare!

    by bob zimway on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:47:57 AM PDT

  •  Kos nailed it. Dems single payer off the table (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    North Coast Ohioan

    leaving us to beg for public option.

    We are about to join the Big Insurance: Sick of It Rally in a few minutes, out in front of the Blue Cross Blue Shield Building in Albuquerque.

    Around the country, today MoveOn rallys take it to where these executives operate.

    Pehaps we should be out in front of Dem Senate offices instead?

    www.Mad As Hell Doctors.com getting great press, RVing from OR through cities for single payer. (DC by 9/30/09)

    by divineorder on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:48:40 AM PDT

  •  She's not the wrong target. (8+ / 0-)

    She's exactly the right target: A center-right conservative in a moderate-to-liberal state who wins on her reputation for being independent.  Looking like part of the Republican Speed Bump is bad news for her.  

  •  Excellent (0+ / 0-)

    Ad.  Hopefully, Sen. Snowe will pay attention and break with her party.

    http://www.thehamandlegsshow.com

  •  The purpose of health care reform ... (0+ / 0-)
    pretending that getting a lone Republican vote on a watered-down bill would mean victory

    ... is health care reform, not a token GOP vote intended to make an ultimately meaningless point about bipartisanship, damn it.

    "Look!  We got a Republican to vote with us!"

    "For what?"

    "Who cares?  It's bipartisan!"

    There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who know binary and those who don't.

    by JBL55 on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 10:59:39 AM PDT

    •  Because it helps round up the blue dogs (0+ / 0-)

      the inability of some on this blog to think strategically stuns me sometimes.

      Obama won her state by 20 points. Obama lost Arkansas, LA, and Nebraska by 20 points. Tell me -- where do you think pressure from the left on health care will be most effective? Party labels are just party labels.

      The only thing that is going to help those blue dogs grow a spine and vote on cloture is if they can sell the final bill as the result of compromise, and Snowe on board will allow the media to help them do it.

      •  I live in Maine (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Radical def

        Snowe is trying to placate the GOP while shoring up her approval ratings among Maine voters (which have dropped in recent months), 60% of whom support the public option.  

        At the end of the day she is supposed to represent Maine voters, not the insurance companies and not a token fig leaf of bipartisanship.

        I know all about the Blue Dog strategy -- I've been hearing about little else all summer -- but right now I'm sick and tired of bending over for the Blue Dogs.  More attention has been paid to them in the last few months than in their whole senate careers.

        As the old saying goes, the sure fire way to go out of business is to try to please everybody.

        The sure fire way to create a lousy health care bill that doesn't fix or help anything is to try to please the Blue Dogs and Olympia Snowe.

        There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who know binary and those who don't.

        by JBL55 on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 12:48:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Another Mainer Here (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JBL55

          I don't have the same leverage to apply pressure on Olympia Snowe because I didn't vote for her and never would, but to all like Nancy in this ad who did-do you think we would be having this same conversation with our senator, begging him or her to support a publically available health insurance option, if it were Mark Lawrence or Jean Hay-Bright, her two most recent Democratic challengers?

          No, me, either. Olympia Snowe won last time with 74% of the vote in a pretty liberal state. She couldn't get where she is without the support of Democrats and progressive independents, and until they stop voting for her, we here are stuck

          •  Stuck, indeed. (0+ / 0-)

            I can count on one hand the number of folks with whom I spoke while working the Democratic phone banks last fall who didn't say, when asked about which candidate they supported in the Senate race, answered, "Susie."

            Didn't matter how blue or progressive or anti-McCain they were, or even how much they liked Tom Allen: it was "Susie."

            I can't imagine 2012 will be much different except for the "Snowe."  I've heard she won't run again, but she's just as suceptible to power as Susan "Two-term Limit" Collins was.

            There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who know binary and those who don't.

            by JBL55 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 10:16:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  both snowe and Collins should be mentioned (0+ / 0-)

    They represent a state who supports the public option and they are not representing the will of their voters.
    Anyway both these ladies have seats for life, Maine seems to believe in all that moderate bs they talk up.

  •  This diary has restored my faith in this blog. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    math4barack

    Thanks!  Now lets get to work reforming our government and health care!

  •  Kicking Repubs while they are down (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silverbird, Radical def

    It might be emotionally satisfying but its not that effective. Its like people aren't willing to take a hard look at the REAL source of the problem - the Corporate Dems themselves. We've beaten the Republicans already, handily. Now we have to dig deeper and go further.

  •  Sorry, Markos is just wrong (4+ / 0-)

    Snowe is the 60th most conservative vote in the Senate (less conservative than Joe Lieberman (CFL-Aetna)).  She is exactly the right person to target.  If you were to get her vote, the pressure on the DINOs to cave would be incalculable.

    That said, I don't think we'll get her vote and will have to go to the 50 vote solution anyway, but it certainly doesn't hurt to make a Republican the face of the opposition.  Highlighting the divisions in our own ranks makes Obama look weak and also makes it harder for the DINOs to cave in the end because they will just dig in.

  •  Definitely worth the time. n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  BarbinMD, I suggest you call Adam first (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blizek

    before writing off his campaign.

    Maybe you could just try reading his diary on THIS site yesterday.

    Another member brought this up, and guess what, the Baucus ad is already made and rolling out THIS WEEK.

    But don't take my word for it, I am not a  member of the PCCC, just a donor and wannabe bundler.

    Adam is not hard to find, nor is he a straner.

    And you are wrong to say that Snowe is not a valuable target, IMHO she is Rahm's secret weapon to kill the public option by passing the blood from Dem hands to a single republican who doesn't mind taking the credit for killing the bill.

    This ad at the VERY least deligitimizes her as a valid partner in the attempt to kill the public option.

    I guarantee you certain "advisers" are more mad at this ad, then the ones against Ben Nelson.

    PCCC: http://boldprogressives.org
    TYT: http://www.theyoungturks.com

    by George Pirpiris on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 11:39:29 AM PDT

  •  My god, that ad is powerful (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blizek
    You can hear in her voice, she is on the verge of tears.  So am I
  •  Since when is Olympia Snowe God? (0+ / 0-)

    Don't expect her to change. She is way too beholden to special interests. Her true constituency is not the people of Maine, but the insurance industry, hospital industry, etc.. It is from them that she gets her sustenance. This is exactly the reason that she should not be listened to any more on the subject of health care reform. We know where she stands and it's not with the people. To give her more time and energy is a waste of those resources.

  •  Memo to Maine voters (0+ / 0-)

    Olympia Snowe can't wait to betray you.

    She is a Republican, and thus, by definition, a corrupt toadie to corporate interests.

    Get ready, get set. Betrayal.

    It is better to be rich and healthy than to be poor and sick. - Anon

    by jimbo92107 on Tue Sep 22, 2009 at 01:56:10 PM PDT

    •  Maine voter here (0+ / 0-)

      I don't have the same leverage to apply pressure on Olympia Snowe because I didn't vote for her and never would, but to all like Nancy in this ad who did-do you think we would be having this same conversation with our senator, begging him or her to support a publically available health insurance option, if it were Mark Lawrence or Jean Hay-Bright, her two most recent Democratic challengers?

      No, me, either. Olympia Snowe won last time with 74% of the vote in a pretty liberal state. She couldn't get where she is without the support of Democrats and progressive independents, and until they stop voting for her, we here are stuck.

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