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Hear me out.

Why the fuck isnt the TV full of Progressive/Democratic/Left wing talking heads saying the following obvious Frameworks?

The Republicans were in power for 8 long, disastrous years. THey ruined everything they touched. We had an election. The people spoke loud and clear about wanting a new direction. You would think the Republican party.. with its love for America... would step back and be cordial and work with Democrats on moving the country forward, out of the deep recession that they had a large hand in causing.

But no. Instead we get idiocy. Delays. Game playing. Their main focus isnt America, its winning the next election however they can. They want their power back.. they want it back so they can wreak more havoc.

Why anyone would ever vote for any republican that supported the Bush administrationis beyond me.

This country is hurting. and the republicans are not helping one bit. They could care less about the damage they caused. Listen to their rhetoric... they would do it all over again. They would Invade Iraq again, they would try to dismantle Social Security.

And ANY blowhard asshole who says HCR is socialism had BETTER be questioned on the quality of HIS government run, taxpayer-paid healthcare and if he will be cancelling that insurance and buying his own.

Seriously. What the fuck is going on.

Where are the talking points?
Where is the organization?
Where is the united front?

Originally posted to librarianman on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 07:37 PM PDT.


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Comment Preferences

  •  there is no united front (7+ / 0-)

    you just have to look at here for example.  Ever progressive is too busy fighting with each other.

    by GlowNZ on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 07:40:53 PM PDT

    •  There are benefits (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cosette, rogerdaddy, luckylizard

      to having a party made up of greedy ignorant sheep.... A skirt. A skill. A life saved.

      by librarianman on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 07:44:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And right there is why. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        librarianman, shortgirl, swaminathan

        Wingers don't like to have to think. They want it all set out for them. What to say, where to say it, here are your pre-printed signs, etc. Listen to them: "Rev. So-and-so said..." "Rush says", "Glenn Beck says..."  

        Not a single damn one of them seems to be able to think on their own. Facts? If reality doesn't match with what they were TOLD to believe, facts are thrown out.

        No WAY do I want to be like that!

        In contrast, liberals LIKE to think! We have IDEAS. We check FACTS. We not only acknowledge that facts exist, we welcome them! If they don't fit with our ideas, we rethink our ideas - we don't discard the facts.

        We don't LIKE being told what to say or how to say it - though when a call for action goes out ("(bill/debate) is happening now/today/tomorrow - contact Sen/Rep X & Y about Z!") we meet the challenge. We don't all say the exact same thing, but we get out there and make the call/send the email or fax/write the LTE.

        Personally, I LIKE that unlike wingers, we aren't limited to a faxed list of pre-approved talking points.

        Sometimes it makes things harder, but for the most part, I LIKE that we have brains, and we USE them to learn and adapt.

        Dear elected officials: "Which is more important to you: the health of your constituents or the health of the insurance industry?"

        by Lashe on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:26:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  You're totally wrong.. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      josephk, Corwin Weber, soms


    •  that and this little gem (6+ / 0-)

      Why the fuck isnt the TV full of Progressive/Democratic/Left wing talking heads saying the following obvious Frameworks?

      i guess the tv isn't full of these saying this -- is because the tv isn't full of progressives to begin with! ... including rachel maddow -- i count exactly ONE ... if i REALLY stretch my definition, i will include Olbermann ... that hardly provides the opportunity for the TV to be full of progressives saying ANYTHING in unison -- even IF they were so inclined!

      "I want to keep them alive long enough that I can win them to Christ," - Rick Warren, Professional Greed Driven Scumbag

      by josephk on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 09:28:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There's a very good reason. (6+ / 0-)

        George Lakoff lays it out.  He founded the Rockridge Institute.

        For the past four decades, Republicans have been funding conservative "think tanks," training grounds for talent who learn the skills of propaganda and argument-by-shouting-louder, to the tune of some billions of dollars over the period.  They have perfected the use of psychological techniques of advertising, "framing," and careful selection of language.  (His discussion of the framing of "tax relief" by the Bushies is particularly enlightening.)

        We, on the other hand, have generally done what we do when we win a long, grueling campaign.  Tired of the war, we sit back after we win the battle and hope the candidates we elected will do what they promised.  Generally, they can't, because they are beholden to the same money interests and because we don't get out in the streets and break things to get what we need.

        Our universities, once breeding grounds for left ideas, have become training grounds for corporate androids, taken over by corporate / wealthy elite interests who fund the schools and call the tunes.

        This is a forever fight, a perpetual war between those who believe it is OK, moral even, to steal from the weak, and those, like us ,who don't.  It is never won.  They understand this, and they're always at war.

        We don't.  We're not.  Advantage:  mean-spirited pricks.

        As for those whose main concern is winning the next election rather than changing things:  you've got it right, and that's what a lot of people on DKOS are trying to change about the Democratic Party.

        As to HCR:  it should be socialism.  It should be socialized health care, period.  Anything else is both more expensive and less moral, and we already know that the best health care systems in this country are socialized:  The VA, Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIPS.

        •  I only disagree with you on 1 point. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I've spent major time in a VA taking care of my father.  They almost killed him.  Since I was there for a long duration, I heard many stories from other patients & family.

          I arrived at 5am to check on him before returning home for a few days to regroup for a longer stay.  I found my dad naked, blood splattered everywhere, his eyes rolled back in his head (over medicated), alarms ringing in the hallway in ICU and NOT A NURSE OR DOCTOR IN SIGHT.  After 5 minutes of running down hallways looking for anyone, I got on the phone & summoned some help.

          Being over medicated whacked him out for months.  He never recovered.  

          "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton

          by shortgirl on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 04:44:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  we are cats being herded. n/t (5+ / 0-)

    Not much to report here

    by on the cusp on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 07:44:16 PM PDT

  •  In the past, the (23+ / 0-)

    only thing that has brought about real change is organized labor.

    The labor movement in the US is almost in shreds.  That's the problem.  

    "Never trust a rich man when he offers you a truce."

    by KibbutzAmiad on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 07:44:54 PM PDT

  •  I don't blame ya, brother! (7+ / 0-)

    I think a lot of us feel powerless to effect change we all know should happen. So much stuff seems like just plain common sense.

    And it's true: the left needs desperately to learn how to form and maintain lasting strong coalitions to present this "united front" you're talking about.

    I'll never tire of saying that maybe we could have leadership workshops to learn how to do just that.
    Just what is in the way of us working together for the betterment of humanity?

    •  Campaign finance reform + Corporate personhood. (0+ / 0-)

      Just what is in the way of us working together for the betterment of humanity?

      Follow the money. When every elected congress critter has to raise big bucks to run for office, and again to run for re-election, it creates a game where we-the-people are tossed aside while they repay the favors of lobbyists and corporate sponsors.

      We can't hope to compete with that.

      And the Supremes are getting ready to tackle a case that may result in letting corporations give even more money to candidates than they're currently allowed to. The reason? Corporations are allowed the same rights as people but without the responsibilities.

      Although bits and pieces of this disgusting system have existed for periods of time in our history, we can thank Saint Ronnie for truly commodifying and institutionalizing the best government money can buy.

      There are huge private profits at stake. Wars have been started for lesser things! It's been revealing to witness how many of our elected "leaders" are ready and willing to sell us down the river for the money.

      I get the impression that, to Congress, we're worth more dead than alive. At least that's how we're treated.

      There's a lotta things I'm proud of in this world /
      I've got a pinch of Shirley Chisholm /
      And a sprinkle of That Girl.      --Nellie McKay

      by CMYK on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 12:55:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  For the most part, the media is owned by (10+ / 0-)

    huge corporations.  They support the GOP viewpoint, and crowd their programs with spokespeople who spout it.  News sources that one used to be able to count on--the Times and NPR--are also polluted with that phony "balance" idea (lies=truth) and can no longer provide a strong voice for progressives.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

    by SottoVoce on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 07:51:20 PM PDT

  •  Here's my thought... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    librarianman, elkhunter, luckylizard, soms

    We've got a golden opportunity to make some real changes.  We, the Democrats, control the Presidency, the Senate, and the House.

    We may only control all three for another year or so.  And I suspect we might have real difficulties controlling all three for more than three more years.

    We need to use it while we've got it.

    We elected Barrack Obama to be the leader.  Why not let him lead?

    Let's quit fighting to get our personal issue to the top of the list and work to get Obama's choice passed.

    The quicker we work down Obama's list, the quicker that our personal needs will be met.

    Remember, for the most part we do not have different lists.  We just have things listed in different orders.

    15 to 6. Pulled ahead as soon as the gate opened and never looked back....

    by BobTrips on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 07:57:55 PM PDT

    •  probably because (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      smarty jones, CMYK

      Obama isnt a progressive. He is a typical conservative democrat, and is too busy trying to build bipartisanship with a group of people who basically want him dead, and will do anything to get power again. Obama has not led effectively on the economic issue of creating jobs( the most important thing to get the economy moving again) or health care. he is more concerned with being a peace maker between two fractions that have nothing in common than actually challenging the status quo and making the fundamental changes in the system that need to be made in order to fix what was broken by 30 years of reagannomics.

      Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

      by johnfire on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 12:15:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you so wrong... (0+ / 0-)

        that I don't even know where to start.

        Does you definition of "progressive" mean furthering the divide that so harms our country?

        Do you know understand how long it takes to create jobs?  Are you not paying attention to how the stimulus money is getting things going once more?

        Have you not paid attention to what Obama has accomplished so far?

        A "typical conservative democrat"?

        Jeez, give me a friggin' break.

        15 to 6. Pulled ahead as soon as the gate opened and never looked back....

        by BobTrips on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 09:35:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Will Rogers Says (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RonV, Corwin Weber, enhydra lutris

    I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat. berg&page=1

    by claytonben on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 08:00:00 PM PDT

  •  Media and politicians are both... (6+ / 0-)
    owned by the corporations.  We've been divided, conquered and looted.

    "When all you have is an assault rifle every problem looks like a target." - Something the Dog Said

    by PvtJarHead on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 08:03:43 PM PDT

  •  Gee, I don't know (10+ / 0-)

    But I saw Barney Frank, Chuck Schumer, and lots of democrat congress people on the "news" shows all week. They are getting the message out. You may miss it, because they are not ranting and raving and causing controversy with lies and innuendo. They just state the facts as Obama has. The message is out there. More than 65% of the population want a public option. Insurance horror stories are making the mainstream news. More and more people who have the insurance coverage, but never had the need to use it, are now questioning their policies.

    This will happen. Stop panicking.


    I already gave my husband notice that if the worse happens, and public option is not in the final bill, then I will be taking to the street along with the 47 million Americans who will be protesting.

    Growing old is inevitable...Growing up is purely optional

    by grannycarol on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 08:15:23 PM PDT

  •  To paraphrase Barney Frank... (4+ / 0-)

    You would think the Republican party.. with its love for America... would step back and be cordial and work with Democrats on moving the country forward, out of the deep recession that they had a large hand in causing.

    What planet have you been living on?

    They may have had a hand in causing the problems we have, but for the most part they

    1. Don't think (or admit) they are problems
    1. If there are, in fact, any problems, the republicans certainly had nothing to do with causing them; and
    1. Don't have the ability to be cordial.

    They have no humility.
    They don't believe it's possible for anything progressive to move the country in any way forward.
    They have no "love of America". They have a love of their own warped view of the universe.

    Seriously. What are you smoking?

    If a public option is off the table, perhaps re-election is also off the table.

    by Mr Bojangles on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 08:29:46 PM PDT

  •  Take a number... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    librarianman, publicv

    Currently serving Number 230,431,998...

  •  It took 3-5 years (4+ / 0-)

    after the 1968 elections until the national media decided that Republicans were for real, going to be the Beltway establishment, and the like.  There was at least some effort made at partisan evenhandedness in the media until about 1978, ten years on.

    The present misrepresentation in national media is the same idea- the editorial staff at the networks and major newspapers is still reliant on its connections with a fading set of Beltway "experts" and insiders of the Party in decline and not in much control of events- even if the degree is different.  

  •  I love the idea of every senator or rep who (6+ / 0-)

    rails against government health care being asked point blank,

    "When will you be refusing your government health care and buying your own policy?"

  •  Your question has been perplexing a lot of (7+ / 0-)

    people. How could a Democratic juggernaut plowing its way into control of the Presidency and Congress just turn off the engines? It is the media to a large extent as well as the disappearance of a labor movement, but the campaign for urgent change fizzled out. How did that happen? What of the great database of fired up young progressives who worked their tails off and donated money? What of the millions who desperately need financial help now?
    The diarist is right. There is no fire in the belly of the Democratic leadership. They cannot communicate well to the people, because they don't know what to say. If they knew what to say they would appear much stronger and draw more interest, even with a screwed up media. Remember, the people wanted out of Iraq (and probably assumed Afghanistan quickly thereafter) and universal health care. They expected to be "helped" just like the big corporations. They expected bold leadership.
    This ain't the party of FDR,Truman,Stevenson,Kennedy,Humphrey,RFK,LBJ,
    McCarthy, McGovern etc. Look at the Senate majority leader. Holy Shit! Would make a zombie look good.

  •  I hear you. I just don't know. and i don't (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    think I care about these politicians and their future aspirations.

    'If we lift our voice as one, there's nothing that can't be done' MJ

    by publicv on Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 11:56:10 PM PDT

  •  Well yeah. (0+ / 0-)

    Our owners decide for us.
    We just get to keep working.
    You don't have to like it.
    You just have to do it.

    Where the brook puts out of the roots of the old tree and flows to the meadow

    by peterborocanuck on Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 05:27:57 AM PDT

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