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I want to pull my hair out. My wife took my daughters (6 and 11 years old) in to our pediatrician get a flu vaccine today.  We were hoping they would have H1N1 available too- as I understand it, both can be administered at the same time as long as both are not in flumist form.

They did not have it available, will not have it available; and the nurse who administered the vaccine all but told my wife to not get them vaccinated.

We live in a rural part of a red state in a region of the country that is being hit particularly hard by the H1N1 flu.  This is inexcusable.  This is ignorant. (tell me if you think I am wrong)

I can understand H1N1 vaccine not being available now- it is early.  But their explanation for not having it at all this season is "it is an individual's preference to get one, we have chosen not to carry it." We were pointed to the county health department 20 miles away. This alone sends the signal that it is "not that important."  

The worst part is the conversation my wife had with the nurse who administered the normal flumist vaccine.  #1 the nurse said the mist had an "adaptive" quality and implied that it could "help" with H1N1.  I have no idea what this means. Can anyone help?

#2 she is not getting her son vaccinated for H1N1- even though he has asthma. ???!!!  #3 the H1N1 vaccine will be incorporated in to the normal seasonal vaccine next year and she is waiting until next year to get her family vaccinated.  Correct- but most people will be exposed over the next 6-12 months.

Is this pediatrician concerned about getting sued if there is an adverse reaction? Is it not more likely that their patients will get sick? Does anyone have anyinsight into this?

I know there are some anti-vaccine people at DailyKos- I personally think this is crazy.  Can you imagine living with polio, measles and other terrible, deadly diseases still being common? Viruses have had devastating impacts throughout history- we know have the knowlege to prevent this.

But please, give me your thoughts on this. I am open to hearing opinions.

We will be off to the health department as soon as H1N1 vaccine is available.  I will take them personally and relay my concerns about our pediatrician.  And I may call the pediatrician tomorrow.  

I hope everyone is having a good day.  

Originally posted to flymice on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:09 AM PDT.


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Comment Preferences

    •  out for a bit (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aquagranny911, CMYK

      My wife is sending me to the post office and I get to go to Home Depot on the way. Will be back in ~an hour.  

      Good conversation.

    •  CDC sez asthmatic patients should NOT get FluMist (8+ / 0-)

      explained in comment way downthread:

      Your provider should have explained better, and I'm sorry about that. But medical guidelines suggest that patients with asthma should not get the inhaled H1N1 vaccine...

      •  And, a word of caution from your manufacturers... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        The package inserts for the H1N1 vaccine manufactured by Novartis, Sanofi Pasteur and CSL (constituting 90% of the vaccine supply) contain the following statements:

        "8.1 Pregnancy
        Pregnancy Category C: Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine or FLUVIRIN. It is also not known whether Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine or FLUVIRIN can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction capacity. Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed.

        8.3 Nursing Mothers
        It is not known whether FLUVIRIN or Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine is excreted in human milk. Because many drugs are excreted in human milk, caution should be exercised when Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine is administered to a nursing woman.

        Pediatric Use
        Safety and effectiveness in pediatric subjects below the age of 4 years have not been established."

        The government is strongly recommending the H1N1 vaccine be given to pregnant women and children first. The manufacturers themselves acknowledge the lack of safety data for this vaccine for these populations.

        Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

        by maxschell on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:51:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Whoa there. There's no biological reason (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          to suspect any problems if you give this vaccine to pregnant women, or to healthy children - the immune changes in pregnancy are nowhere near the level of changes produced by the corticosteroid inhalers that asthma patients use.

          There's a clinical trial going on right now in pregnant women, but I don't know how long it'll take. Meanwhile I would tend to agree with the public health folks - because a serious flu infection and pneumonia in a pregnant woman could compromise the baby's oxygen supply and growth.

          Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, yet. Still in med school for a few years.

    •  Many doctors won't carry it (6+ / 0-)

      In Ohio, every office that wants to have the vaccine must submit to a special health inspection to verify that they have the proper refrigeration and security in place to give this vaccine (which really isn't all that different from any other vaccine).  Couple that inconvenience with the lack of profit and likely hassle it will be to give the vaccine and I would suspect that many doctors are simply going to send patients to health departments instead of dealing with the hassle themselves (especially since most pediatricians are always super busy anyways).

  •  I'm no expert by any means... (15+ / 0-)

    ...but I completely concur with your analysis. Personally, I think it verges on malpractice for them to discuss this vaccine in the way you describe. Good grief...

  •  I would get the vaccine (9+ / 0-)

    I have a 6 month old daughter and we're trying to find a doctor now who has a supply. Target pharmacy has some available. You expect nurses to know better but they give wrong advice sometimes. I've had nurses tell my wife that vaccines cause autism even though there is no scientific proof linking the two. I think nurses sometimes know about as much as I do (a layperson) about medicine. They believe the same popular myths on TV that everyone else does.

    And Jesus said unto Blue Cross/Blue Shield, "let not he who have preexisting condition enroll in thy plan for he will incur great cost unto thee!"--- Holy Bible

    by Aspe4 on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:16:42 AM PDT

  •  Ridiculous. (10+ / 0-)

    I'm sorry your pediatrician is not carrying it.

    My 9 year old has already had it and it was no fun, although he did not have a serious case, fortunately.  We have our flu shots scheduled for Saturday morning and hopefully both will be available.

  •  I'm nervously awaiting the arrival of the (15+ / 0-)

    vaccine here.  I have asthma and am really concerned about what might happen if I got H1N1.  I'm a single parent, so things like that weigh heavily on my mind.

    I think you're absolutely right to talk to the pediatrician, and to go to the health department when they get the vaccine in.

    My pacifism can beat up your pacifism.

    by LeanneB on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:19:24 AM PDT

  •  If there's any justice, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gmb, Lefty Mama, ladybug53, CMYK

    that nurse and her family will spend a couple of miserable weeks later this winter sniffling and sneezing and sweating through an H1N1 attack.

    In the meantime, you need to have a talk with your pediatrician...or find a better one.

    New policy: I will immediately un-rec any diary that's updated with "Wow! The REC LIST! I never imagined..."

    by ipsos on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:21:57 AM PDT

  •  My toddler gets seasonal shot this week (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    and H1N1 as soon as it is available.

    I'll get vaccinated too (already got the seasonal shot).  Frankly I don't give a shit if I get the flu.  I've survived way, way more trauma than the flu.  I only care about my kid.  If something happened to her I'd put a gun in my mouth.

    Republicans are nefarious parasites.

    by HawkRock33 on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:22:26 AM PDT

    •  flu (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gmb, ladybug53, Aquagranny911

      I don't think i have ever gotten the full flu.  I had a colleague get it last week- and got tamiflu early.  She said it was the worst thing she ever had, but tamiflu was a miracle in greatly shortening the pain.  

      My wife would kill me if I got it.  My work would kill me if I got it.  

  •  I am in PA and running into the same thing (15+ / 0-)

    The practice administrator for my son's pediatrician all but told me yesterday that the vaccine is unproven as effective and unproven as safe.

    In fact, that is what she said.

    My son's pediatrician is not giving it. My son's school is not giving it.

    Yesterday the PA Dept. of Health had pulled down its pre-registration for H1N1 vaccine.

    What's worse here is that our kids cannot get a regular flu shot if not through their pediatrician - who has none.

    I can't take him to a drug store clinic because they only vaccinate those over 18.

    So he gets nothing. My pediatrician has run me in circles until I have broken down in frustrated tears.

    So if it helps, you aren't alone. Our school too, has done very little teaching the kids handwashing etc.

    PA just got a budget a day or so ago after a 100-day delay. Our state is a mess.

    I am just planning on getting sick and planning on my son getting sick and stocking up on flu supplies this week.

    I am a single parent with no family here and I am scared to death that I'll get sick at the same time as my son.

    I've been writing about this for days.

    Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

    by the girl on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:24:19 AM PDT

  •  Perhaps it is time to change pediatricians. (8+ / 0-)

    When our local pediatrician failed us miserably, we didn't even try to find another locally.  We went out of county.  It made those appointments more expensive (mileage, time, etc), but we wouldn't tolerate 'the best in the county' white washing their personal and professional failures to our child (and others) by trying to find someone secondary in the county area.

    With our experience, we'd encountered someone out of county we had been able to talk to and work with prior to choosing them, so that made going out of the area easier because we were no just making a blind choice outside of our own area as mere protest.

    I would express your opinions to the Doctor(s) and let them know this nurse's opinion is not what you as a parent bringing your child to that office as one of their patients are disappointed with the mentality and opinion(s) given by the nurse.  Make them aware of your opinion of their employee(s) so they can evaluate and/or correct the situation if it is not an opinion they personally/professionally share.

    The ideology/politics/ignorance that seems to have seeped into this nurse's professional ethic is shallow and ignorant at best.

    -6.38, -6.21: Lamented and assured to the lights and towns below, Faster than the speed of sound, Faster than we thought we'd go, Beneath the sound of hope...

    by Vayle on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:24:41 AM PDT

    •  not many choices (5+ / 0-)

      We are in a very rural area, though with a university.  There are not many choices.  

      And we are likely moving in June- to a MUCH more progressive community.  

    •  Do you think it is ideology/politics, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gmb, Aquagranny911

      or do they just not trust the vaccine? (or any vaccines)

      No more money for non-progressive Democrats from me, ever.

      by iconoclastic cat on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:31:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  trust (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gmb, CMYK

        I don't think they are that ideological.  I want to believe they are not.  

        I really do think doctors are afraid of getting sued around here.  I do believe that defensive medicine reduces quality and increases cost.  

        But caps on awards is not the answer- there needs to be a way to screen legitimate malpractice cases from simple, well informed judgment calls.

        •  I don't have to tell you. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gmb, Shhs

          But I will say it anyway...

          Granted, this next bit is the reverse of not getting a wanted/desired treatment you feel is vital and necessary, but...

          Advocate for your child all the time.
          Ask questions.  In cases where treatment is being pushed and you are not sure. Refuse suggested treatments if you're not sure or do not trust certain things.  Cloud this in, let's reschedule - I'll call and make a different appointment. You then have the immediate responsibility to inform yourself and get the information necessary to make the best decision for your chilod, but let no one pressure you into a treatment you're not sure of. It's another damned copay, but a copay is worth it to have time to investigate whether or not you want to allow a certain treatment.

          -6.38, -6.21: Lamented and assured to the lights and towns below, Faster than the speed of sound, Faster than we thought we'd go, Beneath the sound of hope...

          by Vayle on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:53:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know, flymice. (0+ / 0-)

          That outfit sounds teabaggery without coming out and saying so.

          They're not offering it because some people refuse to get it? That's not being committed to health -- that stinks of politics.

      •  It's hard to say. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gmb, Shhs

        I've been in the presence of some very wildly ideological/opinionated medical professionals.  The ones I have been exposed to also had conflict of interest in their diagnosis of my child as I found they held direct interest in company/stock they were intending to prescribe my youngest child.  In addition, the attending surgeon was made the case supervisor and all she wanted to do was operate as every suggestion she had. IN addition to surgeon solution = cut/operate, she was part of a study for which she did not fail time and again to emphatically encourage us to be a part of, recommending detrimental and unnecessary procedures for her own preference/enrichment over the welfare and best interests of our child.  This took place at UNC and it was a disheartening experience.  In my opinion, If you're in the North Carolina Medical system, go to a DUKE related facility, not UNC.

        This doctor's problem wasn't ideology, but I see so many variant opinions and many seem to think that their personal opinions should carry over to how they diagnose and treat their patients and, including how they offer options, and too many people aren't equipped to inform themselves in serious circumstances and trust too much in the opinions given, assuming that the options given to them (by some) are the only ones available.

        -6.38, -6.21: Lamented and assured to the lights and towns below, Faster than the speed of sound, Faster than we thought we'd go, Beneath the sound of hope...

        by Vayle on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:47:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  'Adaptive?' Sounds like clap-trap to me. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    iconoclastic cat, gmb

    For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?'' ...

    by QuaintIrene on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:24:53 AM PDT

    •  Crap-trap, more like. WTF? nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      No more money for non-progressive Democrats from me, ever.

      by iconoclastic cat on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:29:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not entirely clap-trap (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gmb, Mother Shipper

      There's a certain amount of overlap between all influenza viruses, so the theory is that getting vaccinated against one type makes it at least a bit less likely that you'll get any type.

      The question is how much cross-protection the normal flu vaccine will provide against H1N1.

      •  There is no cross immunization between the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        two as I've read.

        Thank God men cannot as yet fly and lay waste the sky as well as the earth. -- Henry David Thoreau

        by the fan man on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:40:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  According to the CDC, some but not much (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          the fan man, Shhs

          About 1/3 of 60+ adults get protection from H1N1 from the regular virus, about 7% of younger adults do, and kids don't.

          CDC paper on H1N1; see page 4.

          •  Confusing, but I don't read it the same way. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Limited data from serologic studies of persons who received vaccination with seasonal infuenza vaccines suggest that seasonal infuenza vaccines will not provide protection  against novel infuenza A (H1N1) virus. Among adults, cross-reactive antibody  to  novel  infuenza A  (H1N1)  virus  at  titers  that correlate with protection  from  illness  in  studies of  seasonal infuenza vaccine was detected in 6%–9% of those aged 18–64 years and in 33% of those aged >60 years. No children tested had cross-reactive antibody to novel infuenza A (H1N1) virus.
            Titers of cross-reactive antibody to novel infuenza A (H1N1) virus did not increase after administration of seasonal infuenza vaccine (2,8).

            I'm not a familiar enough with this subject to expound further, so I don't know how to interpret this other than what i hightlighted.

            Thank God men cannot as yet fly and lay waste the sky as well as the earth. -- Henry David Thoreau

            by the fan man on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:59:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  though i have heard that if H1N1 had come out (0+ / 0-)

          just a couple months earlier or so, it would have been rolled into the regular yearly flu vaccine and nobody would have even really known about it.

          remember to use positive affirmations. "i am not a dork" is not one of them

          by Altoid77 on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:03:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Don't ask me why, private docs do not have (4+ / 0-)

    uniform policies on flu vaccinations. My doc's office refuses to dispense them, always has. re #1 I don't know of any cross immunity from the seasonal vaccine to swine flu, she sounds misinformed. #2 What she does with her son is her business. #3, yes, next year is too late to help you this year.

    This doesn't help you and your need to travel 20 miles to get help, but this may not be anything more than a physician that doesn't want the "burden" of providing the vaccine and an ill informed employee.

    Thank God men cannot as yet fly and lay waste the sky as well as the earth. -- Henry David Thoreau

    by the fan man on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:25:56 AM PDT

  •  That nurse (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gmb, Cassandra Waites, incognita

    needs to be better informed before she continues to give parents faulty advice. I don't know what this "adaptability" is that she's talking about. The seasonal influenza vaccine will not protect you from H1N1, any more than chickenpox vaccine will protect you from measles. You need both!

    "Waiting til next year" to get the vaccine is like waiting til next year to start using a condom! The danger is there now. If her son has asthma, then he is in a high risk group. She is ignorant and she is putting others at risk with her misinformation.

    •  Absolutely right! I asked our Doctor Dworkin (0+ / 0-)

      (Dem from CT) if there was any cross protection between the seasonal and Swine Flu and he answered in the negative as the Swine Flu is mutating differently than the seasonal.

      Indict, convict, imprison. "Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

      by incognita on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:32:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  CDC Says Asthmatic People Should NOT get FluMist (6+ / 0-)


    Your caregivers should explain things better than they did, but they're only following CDC guidelines...

    If I had to guess why folks with asthma are not supposed to get this, it's due to the immunosuppressive action of corticosteroid inhalers. The nasal flu vaccine is a live, weakened version of the flu bug, but corticosteroids suppress the immune system just enough to keep someone from overcoming the weakened bug.
    (An alternative reason might be that folks with asthma are already prone to having attacks when foreign things get stuck in their airways, but I don't think that's as likely...)

    •  Is the nasal inhaler vaccine (0+ / 0-)

      for the regular, seasonal flu safe for children? My son has sinus problems, but not asthma.

      Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

      by the girl on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:05:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  One thing to research and consider (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        the girl

        When I was researching dosages of Tamiflu for children I think I was on the Tamiflu website which had like a disclaimer that said you can't take Tamiflu within a certain time frame of having the flu mist but there are no restrictions on timing of Tamiflu with the regular vaccine (needle form).  But as always, research this to make sure I am correct since I don't remember the exact web site.

        •  The distinction is live vaccine vs killed vaccine (0+ / 0-)

          Live vaccine takes 2 weeks to have its full effect. So taking Tamiflu before then will keep the (live, weakened, normally-innocuous) nasal-flu-vaccine virus from doing its thing, and will reduce the challenge that your immune system faces in fighting the virus, thereby reducing the efficacy of the nasal flu vaccine.

          Similarly, if you're planning to get a live (i.e. nasal) vaccine but you're currently taking Tamiflu, it may take about 2 days for your body to clear the Tamiflu out of your system; so you should wait 48 hours after your last dose before getting the live vaccine.

          Of course, if you got a live vaccine (say H1N1), and come down with a different strain of flu (e.g. H3N2), then you might as well take the Tamiflu. But not many doctors' offices are bothering to genotype everyone who comes in with flu-like symptoms.

          For what it's worth, Tamiflu doesn't affect the efficacy of killed-virus vaccines (e.g. the flu-shot that you get in your arm). Tamiflu works on live, intact flu virus (it blocks the virus's exit from cells, so the virus can't reach and infect other cells). But it only works well if you begin using it within 48 hours of your first symptoms, and only if you adhere to the dosage schedule that your doctor gave you.

          A final note: killed-virus vaccines are generally less effective than live-virus vaccines, because live-virus vaccines evoke a more intense immune response. But for individuals with compromised immune systems - e.g. patients on corticosteroid inhalers, or organ transplant recipients, or folks on certain chemotherapeutic drugs, or folks with congenital immunodeficiencies, etc etc -  a compromised immune system might not be able to keep the live-virus vaccine in check. So those patients generally receive killed-virus vaccines.

      •  Sorry to hear about that. (0+ / 0-)

        If his sinuses aren't clearing well, maybe his doctor offers the seasonal flu vaccine as a shot instead?

  •  Personally I'm not big on the vaccine... (3+ / 0-)

    ...but if you get push-back from your doctor you could direct them to this AMA statement:

    What can I do to protect myself from getting sick? Oct 8
    This season, there is a seasonal flu vaccine to protect against seasonal flu viruses and a 2009 H1N1 vaccine to protect against the 2009 H1N1 influenza virus (sometimes called "swine flu"). A flu vaccine is the first and most important step in protecting against flu infection. For information about the 2009 H1N1 vaccines, visit H1N1 Flu Vaccination Resources. For information about seasonal influenza vaccines, visit Preventing Seasonal Flu With Vaccination.

    Al que no le guste el caldo, le dan dos tazas.

    by Rich in PA on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:32:20 AM PDT

  •  Check out the CDC website, among others (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gmb, Shhs

    the same process as the seasonal vaccines, mist or injection, are used for the H1N1 virus.

    So the only difference is the virus itself

    There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it. ~Author Unknown

    by VA Breeze on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:34:02 AM PDT

  •  Also, aren't all vaccine-related claims required (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gmb, CMYK

    to go through the vaccine court, meaning that a doctor can't be sued as a result?

  •  My doc is offering it, but he is not (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gmb, ladybug53, Mother Shipper

    totally on board with everything the CDC/AAP does, and we have frank discussions about individual vaccines. For instance he does not give the rotovirus shot unless requested because he saw the side effects of the first one that was pulled and in his experience, in his practice the vaccine was worse than the disease. Of course he does recommend all the others ..that's just an example for context. He also never give more than 2 vaccines at a time -even when the CDC says 4. He's been a pedi for 50 years and has worked all over the world and the country.

    Anyway...I digress. My docs office told me that a) we should not get the seasonal and H1N1 vaccine at the same time -at least a month in between.  

    They also said that they are seeing almost 100 cases a week and VAST majority of the cases are mild -even in the kids with asthma. That is not to say it is nothing to worry about, but I appreciated hearing the numbers from their office and not the media.

    We discussed if actually getting the swine flu (instead of the vaccine) would actually offer better protection in future years (sort of like they just figured out the chicken-pox vaccine doesn't actually offer long-term protection and we may end up with a bunch of adults that get chicken pox becuase they didn't get it as a child.)

    Anyway, this was just a discussion and they don't have the vaccine yet -so it is sort of a moot point.  But that's the best perspective I can offer.

    Here's to the start of a great 8 years!

    by Xtatic on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:40:56 AM PDT

    •  I wish I had your pediatrician. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gmb, Xtatic

      His recommendations sound measured and full of common sense. Hard to find that sometimes as you either end up with bulldogs on one side or the other or disinterest.

      Progressives are liberals who DO SOMETHING about it.

      by angstall on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:59:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wish I had my pedi too - unfortunately (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gmb, angstall

        our insurance company switched networks and we didn't realize until two days before my kids appt -and of course...he is not on our new network!!! So we are scrambling to find a new pedi. I'm so mad.
        He is going to get on our network, but we can't wait or pay the $500 out of pocket for the kids visit.

        We went through three pedis to find him -and the common sense thinking was what we liked so much, combined with the fact that he treated me like I have a brain.

        Here's to the start of a great 8 years!

        by Xtatic on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:04:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I am extra cautious with vaccines (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      and spaced my son's the way your doctor suggests. It meant more shots, but it was easier on him overall.

      I just got the first dose of chicken pox at 9 years old for him, as I was hoping he'd get exposed. He didn't, and I gave in.

      The regular flu shot makes me feel more comfortable than the H1N1 now. But this is just a horrible mess for parents to figure out, especially with weak physicians who duck questions and who do not offer reasoned, sound advice.

      If a doctor doesn't want to give it, that doctor should not insinuate or dance around, he/she should be able to discuss the reasons for those feelings.

      It's the failure to communicate adequately with patients that drives the patients nuts.

      Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

      by the girl on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 12:19:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well said - It really is so very confusing and (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        the girl

        most parents have to go it alone. I'm lucky -I have a science background, I can cut through the bull and read the actual scientific papers...even that though is exhausting.

        The reality is the CDC does make mistakes and the AAP is overly aggressive at times, but the all or nothing approach makes it really hard to figure it all out.
        I've come to rely heavily on Dr. Sears' the vaccine book -which was not available when my kids were super little. He does update his site though and he had great info on the swine flu vaccine. (This is ironic, because I'm not a fan of his parenting advice.)

        Here's to the start of a great 8 years!

        by Xtatic on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 12:28:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm a T Berry Brazelton fan. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I'll check Sears out. Thanks!

          Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

          by the girl on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 01:00:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  On parenting I have most of Brazelton books (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            the girl

            even an old copy of Mother's and Infants.
            I really did not care for Sears' parenting advice. How funny -most moms I know have not heard of Brazelton!

            But Sears' vaccine discussion is well reasoned and informative and the upto-the-minute blog including the H1N1 stuff is great!  

            Here's to the start of a great 8 years!

            by Xtatic on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 01:23:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Right-wing propaganda says "don't get vaccinated" (5+ / 0-)

    Fox News has had whacko "doctors" on telling people that the vaccine will kill more people than the flu, and Limbaugh said not to get vaccinated as well.  It appears that the RW talking points say not to get vaccinated.  I wonder if any of the refusals to carry the vaccine come from this?

    If culture and religion had ever been immune to change; you'd be reading this in Sumerian Cuneiform.

    by get the red out on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:45:31 AM PDT

  •  As a health care provider (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    luku, tribalecho, Chaoslillith

    I will comment that I do not plan on getting the vaccine.  Nor does my husband (a dentist).  Our reasons are many but I don't feel like listing or defending them.  In the meantime, check out  Read up on boosting your own immune system.  It can handle a lot if taken care of properly.  Make sure you eat lots of vegetables, get great sleep, stay away from sugar, take Vitamin D supplements...that's just a start.  Have some black elderberry syrup in the house, you can take that daily.  It's an old European treatment for preventing colds and flu.
    Most importantly, don't buy into the mass hysteria.  The flu of 1918 was so devastating to humanity because it was right after the war and people were poorly nourished and immune compromised.  Also, look into homeopathic remedies for the 1918 the doctors who were homeopaths had a much better success rate in treating symptoms.  On Huff Post Dana Ullman has an excellent article about the specifics.

    •  But 'not feeling like listing or defending them' (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SilentBrook, CMYK

      isn't fair to those of us trying to figure out the message we are getting.

      My doctor should be able to advise me, she should have the courage of her convictions, and tell me the best route for the health of my son.

      Dangling things like this just also feeds into hype and hysteria and is completely unfair.

      If you have reasons to not be vaccinated, list and defend them here.

      Please don't give us half the story and then back away leaving us here.

      That, to me, is exactly why I consider my son's pediatrician irresponsible and she has destroyed the trust I need to have in her.

      This post is not fair. Either tell us why you won't be vaccinated or don't dangle the idea in front of us. To do it half-way is not helpful.

      Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

      by the girl on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 12:08:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hi there. (0+ / 0-)

        I wrote the comment hoping that others would learn what they can do proactively to either prevent getting the flu or minimize the symptoms if they do get it.  I've written before about my hesitations regarding vaccines and did not have the time during my lunch break to go through it again.  Many of us believe that vaccines are a faulty science.  Check into, or the work of Dr. Sharon Tenpenney, or Dr. Mercola.  They all go into specifics.  I no longer receive vaccinations of any kind, nor do any members of my family.  None of us have ever had the flu, only colds.  I'm a strong supporter of increasing a healthy immune response. Maybe your son's pediatrician is on the fence herself.  Did you see Dr. Oz on CNN?  He got the flu shot but stated that his wife and children are not getting either the flu or the H1N1 vaccine.  Many very respected physicians are doing their best with the limited information they are given.  It's never a black and white situation, always lots of grey. As far as the deaths being reported, did the people die from the flu or from the medicine they were given?  No one knows. I'd much rather have a health professional give me information and let me make my own decision.  Sorry if this post also disappoints you, please know there is much you can do to keep yourself and your son very healthy this winter.  Start with the D supplements.  Best wishes.

  •  It's a very confusing year for flu shots. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Not only the "normal" seasonal flu shot, but the H1N1 flue shot, which in many cases requires 2 shots, several weeks apart.  I can understand why there is confusion.  They are giving $25 "normal flu" shots at my YMCA.  I doubt if $25 will discourage many people who want it.  No word on the H1N1 shots.  

  •  Much like doctors (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    the skills and expertise of nurses vary widely.  My wife has been a nurse for 30 years.  The surgeons she works with trust and depend on her medical knowledge, sometimes (politely) catching their medical errors before they can have a detrimental effect.  Other nurses will claim smoking does no harm.  You can't paint with too broad a brush.

  •  It should not matter, all of the school and (0+ / 0-)

    learning this nurse did.  All of that should be put to the side.  Glenn Beck has said the H1N1 vaccine may be a secret socialist plot to implant chips in our children for Obama's community organizing army.

    The Republican Party, courting the female vote for 2010 by clubbing us over the head and dragging us back to the polling place.

    by truesteam on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:01:05 AM PDT

  •  The answer is to get the shot from the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shhs, incognita, CMYK

    health department. I got my regular flu shot from the health department and it cost me only $5 bucks. I will get the H1N1 when they have it available.

    I know 20 miles is a long way to drive.

    It is irresponsible for the nurse to give you the information she did. There is a protocol about keeping, storing and giving vaccines. If the office is that far off in their knowledge about vaccines, I am not sure I would want to trust them to follow the protocol to give them.

    If at all possible, I would look for another pediatrician.

    Public option or corporate option...pick one.

    by Jane Lew on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:01:50 AM PDT

  •  Following everything I can (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    the girl

    I am not surprised by your experience.  My doctor's office which is also my children's doctor is not advocating the H1N1 shot and I have heard from fairly reliable sources that concerns are being raised with other doctors and large business health care workers in our community about this vaccine.  I was leaning toward getting the vaccine form of H1N1 for my family but I am starting to have pause with as many people I trust expressing their doubts.

    Also, we have come across some suggestions in medical data other than the Mexican study that supports what your nurse said regarding some "coverage"? for H1N1 with the seasonal vaccine.  Some health professionals in our area who don't normally advocate the seasonal flu shot are advocating it this year but as I said above not necessarily the H1N1 which is causing me great conflict!  I have two young children and want to make sure I do the right thing.

    •  There's no coverage in the seasonal (0+ / 0-)

      flu, there is coverage in for another really bad flu, but not H1N1.  You could always get the pneumonia shot (that's what local news recommended).

      GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

      by Shhs on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:17:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Search for retail sites- age varies by state (0+ / 0-)

    The online info from these places either cite the CDC approval of 6 months, pick another age, or simply say it's availability varies by state law. (For instance, NC is in the process of changing their state law to make shots publicly available for kids in accordance with CDC recommendations, instead of a more restrictive law.)

    Target has some sites that offer shots 9 years and up.










    "I'm not a humanitarian. I'm a hell-raiser." Mother Jones

    by histopresto on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:43:55 AM PDT

  •  Son, daughter-in-law and four grand children (0+ / 0-)

    are just recovering from this flu.  Three of them had to go to hospital and the youngest, 11 months old, was very ill.  Their insurance isn't very good so this is going to cost them.

    My opinion is get yourselves vaccinated as soon as you can, especially if you live in an area where others will not be taking the shots.

  •  Two weeks (2+ / 0-)

    A couple of weeks ago I was sitting with a good friend at a restaurant for dinner.  Less than two weeks later he was dead from complications from the flu.  He was 39 and just celebrated his birthday the day after we had dinner.  He put off going into the hospital until he was coughing blood.  He later went into kidney failure and died.  This is bad stuff.  

    And since we know that Faux News puts out bad advice, why wouldn't we progressives do the opposite and get the vaccine?

    •  I'm sorry you lost your friend, how sad. (0+ / 0-)

      And you raise a good point. Being anti-H1N1 vaccine is very much a teabagger tactic, among other things. They are willing to subject their own at-risk children to the virus unprotected rather than submit to recommendations of the CDC, that bastion of socialism from a government being "controlled" by the uppity black man in the White House...

      Yeah, I believe that's a lot of what we're seeing in the astroturfed objections to these public health recommendations. That, and the usual tin-foil hattery.

    •  very sorry to hear about this (0+ / 0-)
  •  Question (0+ / 0-)

    Why are you trusting the Govt over your Doctor?
    There seems to be a reasonable argument for both sides.
    I read this story and decided to wait, just not be in the first group to recieve the shot. When the Govt tells me something is safe....They have crunched the numbers, some will die from the flu, some from the vaccine. I'll wait and see how it works for the "earlybirds"

  •  Unfortunately, a lot of the Left supports quacks. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Richard Greene in particular regularly has non-doctors on giving bad medical advice on Air America. Bobby Kennedy and Mike Papantonio push the "thimerisol will kill you" stuff at every opportunity.

    Look, I know medical science isn't up on everything, especially nutrition. I was raised in an ovo-lacto vegetarian natural foods household, okay? I know. But that doesn't mean anyone who says they have a cure for food allergies (there is no cure) has one! It doesn't mean that the sun doesn't cause cancer! It freaking does!

    I don't know about the thimerisol thing, but I have seen several diaries lately that say there is no scientific evidence that it's harmful. IF that's true, damn it, stop spreading lies about it!

    Reality has a well-known liberal bias.

    by allergywoman on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 01:28:09 PM PDT

  •  flymice (0+ / 0-)

    you're not in TN by any chance are you?  If so, what county are you in?  (and if you don't want to say so here, my email addy is on my userpage)

    If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

    by marykk on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 07:49:09 PM PDT

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