Back on October 20th, Checkraise ask a question that I had wondered about but never looked into. Everyone knows that you need to have a calorie deficit of 3500 calories per week to lose a pound. Well, not really.
It would be true if you could make the decision for your body that all 3500 calories would be pulled from fat cells. Yes, if you could make that decision, it would work. The problem is that you can't. It looks like to burn a pound of muscle, the energy burned is about 600 calories. So if your body makes the decision to burn proteins and eat your muscles for energy one week and no fat is burned, you would lose almost 6 lbs of muscle. Not a pretty sight.
For about 10 years I have occasionally read articles by Tom Venuto. Yes, he's one of those internet bodybuilder types that have more web sites than Carter's got pills. I knew he would have the answer because he really does look at the medical studies and is very research aware. Sure enough he has a link for me. Join me below.
First some housekeeping:
WHEE (Weight, Health, Eating and Exercise) is a community support diary for Kossacks who are currently or planning to start losing, gaining or maintaining their weight through diet and exercise or fitness. Any supportive comments, suggestions or positive distractions are appreciated. If you are working on your weight or fitness, please -- join us! You can also click the WHEE tag to view all diary posts.
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October 26
Mon PM - kismet
October 27
Tues AM - bonsai superstar from Japan
Tues PM - Clio2 (Kessler, Ch. 18)
October 28
Weds AM - ???
Weds PM - Edward Spurlock
October 29
Thurs AM - A DC Wonk
Thurs PM - ???
October 30
Fri AM - ???
Fri PM sychoticI
October 31
Sat AM - ???
Sat PM - Edward Spurlock (Kessler, Ch. 19)
November 1
Sun AM - kismet -- the calorie value of everyday tasks
Sun PM - ???
November 2
Mon AM- NC Dem- Muscle of the Month-Deltoids
Mon PM- ???
Discussion from Tom Venuto on body composition studies.
In the article by Venuto, he quotes from and gives the high points of a study by Dr Kevin Hall. Hall was also standing on the shoulders of G B Forbes who showed a relationship between weight loss or gain and the initial boy fat % of the person before the loss. Taking this as a starting point, next rolls in the calorie deficit for the week which is based primarily on diet and exercise/activity level.
As Venuto states, both Forbes (2000) and Hall(2007) makes some very refined calculations on how they interact.
Here are the basic points:
1- If you are lean and have a high fat free mass (FFM) (men-less than 20% fat; women-less than 25% fat) and you lose weight, it will be much higher percentage proportionately in FFM rather than Fat Mass (FM). This is especially true if with a low calorie diet or high activity level, the weekly calorie deficit is 3500 calories or more.
DISADVANTAGE to lean people
2- If you are obese and have a high Fat Mass (FM) over 28% and you lose weight, it will be much higher & proportionately in FM than FFM. In these situations, the calorie deficit can be bold like 7000-10,500 or even higher calorie deficit a week if the person is morbidly obese.
ADVANTAGE to obese people
3- If you are lean and have a high FFM, and you eat more or exercise less and have a calorie surplus, the added weight will be proportionately more in muscle (FFM).
ADVANTAGE to lean persons
4- If you are obese and have a high FM and you also have a calorie surplus, the added weight will be predominately allocated to fat.
DISADVANTAGE to obese people
One odd result that should derive from this study seems counterintuitive. A lean person who has a weekly deficit of 5,000 calories should lose more weight than an obese person with the same total weekly deficit. Why? Because they are losing a higher percentage of muscle and again it only takes 600 calories to lose a lb of muscle. In the Excel sheets I'll introduce you to below, I would see 40% of my loss in muscle at this level of deficit. Thus I would be predicted to lose almost 1.9 lbs with 1.35 lb in fat and .55 lb in muscle.
Please read the full article by Venuto. He really does look at the scientific data and knows more than most on how to change your body for the better. I still go back to the 300 page ebook I got from him to help with various methods to overcome weight plateaus by shocking the body and keeping it guessing.
After looking at this site, I then began to research the work on G B Forbes since the article and calculations by Kevin Hall are based largely on his work. Even though I han 3 semesters of calculus in college, I found the math computations by Kevin Hall to be daunting. If you are really into this type of thing (I'm looking at Edward and cdkipp here) you can see his study and move through his theory. For more on Dr Hall, please go to this PDF. file on his background and research.
Here is Dr Hall's 2007 study and revision of Forbes work. After working through the calculations, reading more abstracts along these same lines, and with one full study that cdkipp provided me, I finally sent Dr Hall an email asking for help. I knew there had to be a better way for us to look at this relationship rather than look at graphs. He finally sent me a link to his research page at NIH/NIDDK labs. On this page, he has links to 4 different Excel pages where you can plug in some numbers and watch the different results.
Make sure to read the instructions to setting up the Excel files to run correctly. If you don't enable your macros or lower the level of your security, you may not get the sheets to perform correctly. I am really weak in this type of thing but I was able to get it to work. If you can't get correct answers in yellow (rather than red), it is not set up correctly. If you have Excel on your computer it may be easier to adjust if you save the spreadsheet to a file and then follow his directions on how to work the program.
In two of the files, you need to provide or know your body fat% and convert that to kgs. Otherwise, you enter your gender, age, height and weight and it calculates your body fat based upon the work of Dr AS Jackson from 2002. I played with this some and for men it was amazing how close BMI and body fat are when you are in the 30% range or higher. Once you reach a BMI of 25-27 however, the disparity grows greater. So a BMI of 25 results in a body fat % of close to 20%. You can play with it and see what it does for women.
Now what does all this have to do with losing weight? First go back and read the main 4 points above. These are critical. Because the changes to activity level and diet surplus or deficit draw primarily from your initial body fat % and react in a logarithmic manner, it is extremely important for you to adjust your diet and activity level as you get close to your goal.
Kismet had a great diary last night with her weight loss wins and crashes and she offered some really concrete ideas for you to consider. As she gets closer to the goal weight it is critical to allow time and move conservatively on your total energy deficit because if it is too high (more than 500 calories per day), you can lose as much as 50% of the lost weight in muscle.
When I looked at my numbers, I have to hold the daily deficit to 200 calories or lower or I would lose 35% of my weight in muscle. Very discouraging!
So as you get your weight down and within that last 10-15 lbs that you need to lose, it becomes very difficult to achieve. Why? Your body has now adapted to its lowered calorie diet and because you have lost weight, your PAL (physical activity level) has now increased. When I looked at the Excel sheets, my new RMR was much lower than the initial start. If you stay on the same planned diet and continue with the same activity level, your weight will plateau at least once and probably more than once in the last 10 lbs to lose.
I'm hoping Dr Hall will call me back today so that I can discuss this issue with him. He doesn't address this issue in any of his studies that I can see thus far.
Entering NC Dem's thought process on this issue.
As most personal trainers will tell you, you now have to trick the body into making changes that it/you have not faced before. I addressed this in one of my earliest diaries here. In a word, you must force your body to change. The success of Jillian Michaels program or the P90X program is hard work and shock to the system. Once you get past that last plateau, it will not be all smooth sailing to maintain that weight but it will be easier.
One of the weaknesses that I see in this type of research is that it assumes the calorie deficit or surplus is constant everyday. We know that can't happen. I have argued here often on consuming small meals and an early hearty breakfast. Eat protein at some level in every meal/snack. And try to hold all meals to 600 calories or less. Why? Because your body is constantly using your blood system to feed your cells to rebuild your body. If you consume too much and your glycogen storage is full, the body will not tolerate too much sugar in the blood. It will make the decision right then to store that extra sugar in your fat cells. it doesn't wait until the end of the day to make that decision. It doesn't consult with you and ask your permission. It's done quickly and without your input. We have had many excellent diaries on glucose levels, GI, and meal planning. It is critical to understand as you look at these spreadsheets by Dr Kevin Hall, that you can still influence the final production. Eat carefully and as cleanly as possible.
As most of you here know, I also continue to struggle with losing weight. I finally got down to under 200 for the first time in 35 years. This last week I concentrated on upping my protein sources more than normal and have consumed almost 4 qts of water a day. When I started my fat % at 250 lbs was around 36% as it varied from 34-38%. Although I didn't lose a lb last week and I may have gained .5 lb, my fat % was as low yesterday as any day thus far. Yesterday after a hard day of work raking leaves and staying hydrated, I had my fat % drop to 20.6% (lowest low thus far) and this morning after 8 hours of sleep, it was only 24.6%.
If I can impress one fact this morning on you that relates to Dr Hall's and GB Forbes' research, it is that your current body fat % is very important to planning your future weight loss program. It needs to be with you just like your birthday, your SS#, and your age. Know it and heed it because as the research shows, it is the one beginning number that determines your plan of action.
One final word of advice on the Excel sheets. Only have one of these open on the computer at the same time. For some reason, it will not work correctly if two windows are open.
I will be around most of the remainder of the mornng but I will need to be gone around 12:00 PM EST because I have to go pick up my wife's birthday present. Have a great week.