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This will be long, because this lie has taken deep roots that are hard to pull up.
Is there any media outlet that cares about getting this story right? This bullshit about the Dodds getting a "sweetheart" deal from Countrywide needs to stop. It needs to stop on NPR, Cable news, and print media (but I'm not going to hold my breath). At least we can stop the nonsense here.
If you believed this garbage, then you fell victim to the power of suggestion and you owe it to yourself to reclaim your mind by pursuing the facts. And if you remained skeptical, and you consider yourself a progressive, then you owe it to Senator Dodd to try to help get the real story out.

Defense will call witnesses after the jump.

Alright, let's start with the Senate ethics rule, which actually sets a pretty clear standard on loans to Senators:

No Member, officer, or employee of the Senate shall knowingly accept a gift except as provided in the rule....[Exceptions include] loans from banks and other financial institutions on terms generally available to the public.

(Emphasis mine)

Dodd opponents, journalists and bloggers all have a responsibility to either (1) prove that Dodd's loan terms were not generally available, or (2) argue that Dodd's conduct violated some other standard of behavior that the Ethics Committee was not charged to investigate. (Don't worry, we'll get there)

Let's get to the loan itself. From a report compiled by the firm CrossCheckCompliance (PDF):

The $506,000 loan, which closed on June 10, 2003, was a cash-out refinance of a Washington, D.C., townhouse...The note granted on this loan was a 30-year adjustable with the first five years at a fixed rate of 4.25%. The HUD statement for this transaction revealed settlement charges (excluding prepaid interest and taxes) paid of $2,286.30 (0.45% of the loan amount). The $275,042 loan, which closed on July 3, 2003, was a streamline refinance of a single family residence located in East Haddam, Connecticut...The note granted on this loan was a 30-year adjustable note with the first ten years at a fixed rate of 4.5%. The HUD statement for this transaction revealed settlement charges paid of $2,020.25 (0.73% of the loan amount).

So-- 1 half-million-dollar loan, five years fixed below 5%, 30 years total, closing costs of less than .5% of the loan. The other loan fixed for ten full years at a good rate. Favorable terms indeed, although remember that these were high-flying times in the real estate market.

Now, the really damning piece of this story boils down to 6 letters:"VIP" and "FOA." Certainly the Dodds refinancing was placed into these programs by Countrywide. But there's not one piece of evidence that the Dodds actually knew Angelo Mozilo. The burden of proof is on the accusers, and no-one has been able to demonstrate that Sen. or Mrs. Dodd had ever known the man, let alone been an actual "Friend of Angelo." The only motive to designate him as such would have been to try to influence him. Only, it didn't work: Dodd gets a 100% score from Progressive Punch on votes to regulate the banking industry. And in case you've forgotten the awful bankruptcy bill from 2005, it was Dodd's staunch opposition to that bill and repeated attempts to add progressive amendments to it that made him the obvious (for many of us) choice for Chair of the Banking committee after 2006. You wanna talk about undue influence on a Senator's vote? Check out then-Senator Biden's zeal in driving that bill through to passage without any changes to protect consumers. Incidentally, Delaware is America's corporate headquarters.

But I digress-- my point is not to condemn the Vice President for his actions as a Senator, nor do I wish to deflect attention from Senator Dodd's mortgage. Quite the opposite. No one seems to have paid very good attention to the totality of this story. Everyone loves a good knee-jerk, and it's so much easier to believe an accusation of influence-peddling than it is to muddle around with pesky facts. The motive for Countrywide is so obvious, the suspicion of all politicians so high, that we all heard "Dodd," "VIP," and "Sweetheart deal" and then shut off our brains.
The assumption from all quarters is that the Dodds received these rates and terms as part of some sort of quid-pro-quo, or in an attempt to influence Senator Dodd. As demonstrated by Sen. Dodd's voting record on financial reform, there was no "quo" provided to Countrywide. That gives the lie to the notion that the favorable loan terms were a "quid" in the first place. I say the presumption of innocence applies even to politicians, so let's see if there might be some other explanation for the good terms.
CTNewsJunkie reporter Christine Stuart:

According to documents related to the three loans, Dodd had a credit score of 768 and Mrs. Dodd had a credit score of 821 when they sought to refinance their loans with Countrywide in 2003.

Now I'm a humanities student from a liberal arts college, and I've barely begun to build a credit history, but even I know that those are very good credit scores. Good enough that a lender would know, beyond any real doubt, that they will see over 4% return for 5+ years. And good enough that a lender knows that other lenders will undercut her if she offers too high a rate, or too short a locked-in period.
Indeed, it appears the Dodds shopped around and found comparable rates with WaMu, Lending Tree and First Union/Wachovia, before deciding to stay with Countrywide, the lender that had provided the mortgages they wished to re-fi. Wouldn't you do the same if there wasn't a massive difference in terms? Who wants to keep track of a whole second set of lenders, loan servicers, etc? And when you've got credit scores like those, you can play those companies against each other and get a better rate. Everybody fights points on a mortgage (or so my parents tell my unemployed PoliSci/Spanish/Film ass).

So-- where does all this leave us? From the Ethics committee's letter of exoneration:

Dear Senator Dodd,
[....Y]our mortgages were made in a commercially-reasonable manner based on terms and conditions available to borrowers with similar loan profiles....[T]he service you received was available to thousands of other non-Senate customers...[The Dodds] were excellent loan candidates and established Countrywide customers in good standing. You sought competing mortgage offers from other lenders that offered terms substantially similar to the ones Countrywide provided. There is no evidence that the interest rates for your Countrywide mortgages were below prevailing market rates.

Emphasis mine again.

The defense rests.

Now I'm not saying that rates like these were widely available, and I fully understand how people can be outraged that a sitting Senator bought a good re-fi when so many of us got absolutely hosed by lenders over the past decade. But this kind of loan would have been readily available to anyone holding these kinds of properties and these kinds of credit scores. Here's where the aforementioned "higher standard of behavior" comes in. I think I've demonstrated that there was no "sweetheart deal" here. So if you're still reading this and saying Sen. Dodd did something wrong, you're saying you know something that no-one else has been able to ferret out, or that he should have been so magnanimous as to turn down the loans because they were better than what average Americans were getting. Um....Huh?

The Ethics Committee may seem like a whitewashing body to you, but stop and think-- if there were even any little bit of credible evidence to suggest Sen. Dodd behaved unethically, don't you think the GOP would have rammed that evidence down our throats all summer? Instead, the charge was repeated ad nauseam without any evidence to support it. I'll say it again: If you believed this garbage, then you fell victim to the power of suggestion and you owe it to yourself to reclaim your mind by pursuing the facts. And if you didn't, and you consider yourself a progressive, then you owe it to Senator Dodd to try to help get the real story out.

UPDATE In comments someone remarked that they were confused about why I'm posting this today. It's because every time that I've heard, seen or read a piece about Sen. Dodd's retirement, the journalists in question have thoughtlessly regurgitated this false accusation. Examples: "Angelo Mozilo, chief of subprime lending giant Countrywide Financial, had arranged special low mortgage loans for Dodd,"  
It was soon revealed that Dodd was a beneficiary of a discounted mortgage program for VIPs offered by Countrywide Financial

There was also a piece on public radio in CT the day of the announcement where the reporter introduced a man-on-the-street interview segment by repeating that Dodd had gotten a "sweetheart deal" from Countrywide. Can't find the link, any help appreciated.

Originally posted to 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:24 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (25+ / 0-)

    Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

    by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:24:09 AM PST

  •  tipjar (7+ / 0-)

    Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

    by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:25:01 AM PST

  •  He's retiring . . . (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Julie Gulden, Fabian

    . . . so does it even really matter?

    •  yes, actually, it does matter (17+ / 0-)

      Dodd has been unfairly treated on this matter.
      Truth....let's have truth

      What if the hokeypokey is what it's all about?

      by Julie Gulden on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:28:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sure, but who is the target audience? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Fabian, CDH in Brooklyn

        I suspect that 97 out of 100 people on the street are completely oblivious of this issue one way or another.

        Of the other 3% (just an estimated number, of course), the "knowledgeable" contigent (DailyKos types, for example) most likely already are aware that this is a lot of smoke and no fire.

        So maybe these leaves a few hard core Fox News/Drudge types who might be influenced negatively.  And I doubt that they will be reach via reason . . . .

        So yeah, it's good to have the record set straight I suppose (and I applaud, and have tipped, the diarist for their thorough work), but I just don't see this as a burning (or even gently smoldering) issue of the day . . .

        •  Truth smolders (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TeddySanFran, revgerry

          Geez, that's a terrible phrase. What I mean, though, is that it's not okay to let the dynamic you describe continue to dominate our discourse (ack! unintentional alliteration!)

          What I'd like to see happen is a concerted effort to straighten the record. One of (certainly not the only or best) strength of our community here is that we can sometimes muscle a more complete perspective into the mainstream discourse.

          So I guess what I'm asking is that if you agree with me that the record needs to be set straight, you find a way to circulate either this diary or this same set of facts. I assume that Dodd's campaign did not do this because they did not want to distract from HCR/FinReform debates. But goddamnit, somebody needs to do it.

          Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

          by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:38:12 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Actually it matters for the next candidate or (6+ / 0-)

        Congress critter this type of smear gets used on more than it does to Dodd. Learning how to defeat tactics like swiftboating, etc. are important. I have to admit I was willing to dismiss Dodd myself until some of his defenders stepped up and made me look more closely at the facts and the man himself. There are hundreds of national political figures, we all take short cuts to deal with the information overload that generates. Learning how to do that without prejudice would be worthwhile.

        I stand by the truth, that way I don't have to be near any Republicans.

        by ontheleftcoast on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:36:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm confused (0+ / 0-)

    Good diary, but I haven't heard anyone still talking about Dodd's mortgage for quite some time.  Your link is to a June 2008 article.  Has it been back in the news again recently?

  •  Great diary, but purely academic at this point. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lying eyes, Norm DePlume, FG

    The mob has already forced him to announce his retirement.  They haven't learned a thing.  Now they're trying to force the Treasury Secretary to resign based on the same innuendo, guilt by association, and lack of understanding of financial matters.

    "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

    by lordcopper on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:34:47 AM PST

    •  Not the same at all (3+ / 0-)

      Now it would be the height of hypocrisy for me to rush to judgment on Geithner after condemning everyone for doing so to Dodd. And perhaps Timmy G needs a similar kind of pushback, because he is in at least as much trouble as Dodd was back in the spring.

      Have you read the Taibbi piece about the overlap b/t Citigroup execs and Obama transition staff?

      If there's a strong debunking to be had with allegations against Geithner, I'm eager to see it.

      Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

      by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:45:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I stopped reading Taibbi a long time ago. How (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lying eyes, Norm DePlume

        many times do you need to read "Goldman Sachs", before you realize he's simply practicing guilt by association.  In regards to a "strong debunking", if there's an actual charge against anyone I haven't heard it made.  As far as I can tell, most people want Geithner out because he worked in the same zip code as Goldman Sachs.

        "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

        by lordcopper on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:54:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's fair (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lordcopper

          And I'm so far from sophisticated in my understanding of high finance that it's not even funny. The Taibbi piece I'm thinking of seems more grounded than that, though. Certainly his worldview is predicated on the idea that personal relationships and people matter most. That leads him to an argument that all of the populist econ. advisers in Obama's inner campaign circle (Goolsbee, Kornbluh) were shipped off in favor of people with close ties to Bob Rubin, Citigroup, and the deregulation of derivatives, etc.

          The shocker for me was that Michael Froman, who headed the transition, was still on Citigroup's board for the first month+ of the transition.

          Why shouldn't I be convinced by the line he draws from Rubin->Dereg->Citigroup existing c/o dereg->Credit Defaults, etc->Froman appointment->Massive citigroup bailout ??

          I really hope there's a good answer to that, because I really don't want Taibbi to be right about this.

          Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

          by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:04:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's my experience that nobody puts anything (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Norm DePlume

            substantial on the line "because they know someone" (maybe for family, or for personal gain).  These CTs are simply feeding public anger at the situation (while providing Tiabbi with a dedicated readership).  It's just not productive, nor is it right.  Again, if there is a specific charge of malfeasance bring it.  Let's decide on the merits.

            "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

            by lordcopper on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:59:12 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm not sure that's the line of reasoning (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lordcopper

              I think it's more like this: When surrounded by like-minded individuals, people tend to become over-sure of their own righteousness. And when you are allowed to be insulated from that for long enough, that sense of right-ness becomes impenetrable. I think Taibbi's thesis is that this group of people who all bought into the same set of deregulatory ideas, and then all profited by them personally and professionally, are far more resistant to dissent than another group of advisers might be. And they don't interrogate their own reasoning anymore, because they've been around other successful people who agree with them for so long that they're absolutely sure.

              It's the sureness that makes me uncomfortable, whether it's religious certainty or policy certainty or other forms. Anytime you stop asking, "Could I be wrong?" you're at a precipice.

              Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

              by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:07:57 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  go back to reading Taibbi (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TeddySanFran

          it will cure you of your blue dogness.

          •  Hey, Yeah! Ad Hominem attacks! Allllriiiiiiight!! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lordcopper

            Seriously, how's this productive? You sound like the thought police.

            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:06:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  tough love (0+ / 0-)

              eventually if i ridicule you enough reality will sink in.

              •  how's that working out so far? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lordcopper, skohayes

                Ridicule really brings people together in a coherent movement, I can't believe I haven't realized that before.

                How about elevating the level of discourse instead of detracting?

                Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:15:09 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  fair enough (0+ / 0-)

                  truth is I don't consider you worthy of eleveated discussion because you discount taibbi out of hand because he doesn't fit your prescribed narrative.

                  •  wrong-- I was the one who asked if he'd read Taib (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    lordcopper, skohayes

                    bi. I liked, and was frightened by, that piece (Obama's Big Sellout). It's a bit insulting that you've been trying to get my goat without even understanding what I have and haven't said.

                    To be clear: I read Taibbi with fascination and often horror; I find that frequently he does not seem to be any more expert on matters of finance than I; this makes me wary of his conclusions, and eager to seek a productive discussion of them.

                    All you're doing is shutting down discourse. How does that help your cause?

                    Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                    by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:29:37 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I'm not talking to you then (0+ / 0-)

                      I meant the guy who you asked about taibbi, sorry for confusion.

                      •  Not accepted (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        lordcopper, Norm DePlume

                        You're still kinda being a jerk, and that's what I find objectionable at bottom.

                        1. Why be so dismissive of others? Do you do that in person? If not, why do it just because you're anonymous on teh interweb? Again, I can only assume b/c you think it's productive. So again I ask, HOW?
                        1. When you come charging in with torches blazing to start a flamewar, where do you get off telling a person who wrote a longish comment that expressed a coherent opinion and fleshed it out a bit that they don't deserve "elevated debate?"

                        Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                        by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:55:32 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  go cry to your mom (0+ / 0-)

                          Call me a jerk if you want but I'm still right.

                          •  respond to my points! (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            lordcopper, Norm DePlume

                            How does your manner of conduct in this thread help any cause?

                            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:57:54 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  laughter is best medicine? (0+ / 0-)
                          •  I hope you're laughing at yourself. (0+ / 0-)

                            "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." Victor Hugo

                            by lordcopper on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:07:27 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And I hope (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Norm DePlume

                            that the world gets simple enough for your view of it. Otherwise you're gonna be beating your head against a wall for a long time.

                            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:09:08 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  trust me (0+ / 0-)

                            nothing makes me want to beat my head against a wall than talking to kossacks.

                          •  we agree again n/t (0+ / 0-)

                            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:44:06 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  can't help myself--1 last try (0+ / 0-)

                            Clearly we're both frustrated. I can't speak to your frustration. Here are the sources of mine:

                            I got the distinct sense from your first comment that your intention was to inflame. I also get the sense that you did not and have not read the actual diary.

                            Like it or not, tone matters. It's a lot harder to engage people after you enrage them. As you can see from other comments, I welcome a spirited and informed and respectful debate. I don't see why we couldn't have had that. From the first, you were out for blood.

                            Again: Why? What purpose does that serve?

                            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:51:02 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I just don't understand (0+ / 0-)

                            how my comments bother you so much that you've responded to me 3 times now but Dodd's corruption is just fine by you.

                          •  Obviously we have a factual disagreement (0+ / 0-)

                            My entire diary sought to prove that Senator Dodd is not corrupt. You have not offered any justification for that charge beyond blaming him for the failure of the entire Senate to pass financial reform yet and throwing out a reference to the cottage in Ireland.

                            What bothers me is that you provoke without responding to my basic question: How is what you are doing here productive?

                            I'm done with the flamewar. But I'd love to know how what you're doing helps anyone.

                            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 02:24:14 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I showed why he's corrupt (0+ / 0-)

                            You're just refusing to admit reality.

                          •  No, you didn't (0+ / 0-)

                            You offered a terse explanation of why you think he's corrupt; no definition of corruption nor effort to fit his record to that definition. For you, apparently, the Senate's failure to pass FinReform yet and Sen. Dodd's disagreement with you over Bernanke's tenure = corruption.

                            That's an opinion. Not an objective reality. But there's obviously no point in continuing this, so I'm done here. Last word's yours if you want it.

                            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                            by 2hands0feet on Mon Jan 11, 2010 at 09:50:58 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  and 3-- (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        lordcopper

                        your hypocrisy also includes the bit about "prescribed narratives." You're the one certain that Dodd is corrupt because that's what fits your own narrative.

                        Question. Everything. Especially yourself.

                        Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                        by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:56:44 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

  •  I would bet that there are many folks (3+ / 0-)

    who are relatively wealthy and absolutely not "going anywhere" (known entities) on that plan. Every bank has a special rate for sure bet mortgagees.

    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

    by MrMichaelMT on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:35:11 AM PST

    •  Right. Should that mean... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TeddySanFran

      ...that public officials have to opt-out of those special rate packages? Honest question. Would be defying market forces, I suppose. In a sense, it'd be a penalty for public service. Ideally they'd all be closer to my tax bracket, I guess.

      Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

      by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:53:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, it means that the VIP term should be retired (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TeddySanFran, Virginia mom

        if people are getting loans based on their credit rating, those loans should be designated differently.

        In addition, if I were a politician, I would keep on staff someone who would specifically look out for these types of entanglements.

        Can't you imagine how this worked out?  I sure can.  Chris Dodd's accountant or lawyer, or who looks after his money arranged the deal, Senator Dodd looks it over, (VIP designation not anywhere on the documents), and says, "gee, interest rates on houses are sure lower than they used to be.  We sure do live in a wonderful country." Then they have a drink and everyone goes home happy in that they are doing a great job in a great country where so much is possible.  Then the worst case scenario is the Countrywide people go home snickering because they have something to use against Senator Dodd and he doesn't even know it.

  •  In Congress Perks part of the package... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    back of a knapkin analyst

    First this is an interesting refutation of the slur, that I accept without verification.

    But just being in Congress is corrupting.  How about a permanent parking spot at National Airport, which every member gets to use.  Do they get automatic upgrades to 1st class?  Only if the airline industry has an once of sense.

    These people are catered to in every way, as getting them to like you, or your industry, just makes sense.  And if he did get a slightly lower rate, a few tenths of a point.....big deal.  It's trivial compared to the boondoggles that happen on a regular basis.

    •  Argh. It SHOULD be a big deal, and... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      N in Seattle

      ...again, I don't think you're taking my point. Thank you for reading. I agree with you that power is inherently corrupting. Indeed, I would not have taken the time to compile this diary this morning (or to call local radio to express this line of reasoning, or to berate everything in earshot about it every time it comes up) if didn't believe that Sen. Dodd has successfully stayed above all that (relatively speaking).

      The whole point is, he didn't get a lower rate. The combination of passive acceptance of corruption with a willingness to take accusations at face value that I see in your comment is really, really worrying to me, arodb.

      Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

      by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:49:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I do hear you...... (0+ / 0-)

        Sadly, when someone is a public figure, and we have 535 in congress alone, plus state and city legislatures, everyone is subject to being tainted by accusations.

        I said I accepted your explanation, but you are right, I also believed that Dodd had gotten a better deal.  Could he have done a better job in defending himself, explaining exactly what you said.  Perhaps he could have, as he had access to every news program.

        I also believe that Rangel cheated on his taxes, and that Murtha gets excessive earmarks.  I just don't have the time, nor does anyone to examine every issue.

        Public life is a crapshoot.  Actually this explains some of the corruption.  You need to maintain power, and do favors to have allies to defend you.

        You made a point that I appreciate.

        •  As Did You (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          arodb

          Thank you.

          A crapshoot, indeed. And the alliances that get struck and favors that get done are probably beyond our fathom most of the time. And so I, for one, slip into relativism-- does the good done by an individual member outweigh whatever's happening in the dark?
          Hard to know when you don't know what's going on in the dark.

          This here's a situation where we can demonstrate a false accusation, and it's still being percolated through every report on the man. Shame.

          Thanks for participating. Your points are salient.

          Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

          by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 02:28:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  And we all wonder why they feel that everything (0+ / 0-)

      is fine and dandy here in America, and that if people would stop their whining long enough, they'd find plenty of opportunity.  After all, doesn't everyone get complimentary upgrades left, right and center?  That's just part of being an American.

      •  still not sure we're nailing it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        texasmom

        We don't all get complimentary upgrades. But if we've got great credit, we probably should get great mortgage rates...right?

        Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

        by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:14:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Similar terms were available to other buyers (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        2hands0feet

        with similar credit scores.  I received a very similar deal ("upgrade") near the same time period and I am nobody of influence at all.

        Sometimes it's better to individually address a problem rather than just criticize our politicians for failing to do so.

        by texasmom on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 01:04:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  It was the brokerage house bonuses (2+ / 0-)

    that hurt him the most.  I am glad he is leaving.

    •  Why are you glad? (3+ / 0-)

      Honest question. Obviously, I loved Sen. Dodd, and I'm having a hard time accepting that he's been run out of town on a rail. Also, my understanding is that the bill allowing the bonuses was something the Admin asked him to pass through his committee. It was his inept handling of the news that he was prominently involved that hurt him most, but he did that because he didn't want to throw POTUS under the bus.

      Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

      by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 10:51:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  dodd is completely corrupt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        qwertyuiop

        he helped cause this mortgage meltdown. Look into his ties to fannie and freddie. I don't know about this mortgage accusation of his personal life but it doesn't matter even if true compared to his other corruptions that helped bankrupt the entire country. Should be in jail let alone forced to retire.

        •  Evidence? Facts? Links, even? (4+ / 0-)

          You're telling me that a guy who has fought harder than anybody save Teddy K or Wellstone for the working class to have a fair shake against corporate greed and government bamboozling somehow intentionally caused the economy to collapse?

          I bet you think that deregulation of financial markets and 8 years of federal appointees picked specifically because they didn't believe their agency should do anything to interfere with the market-- In your worldview, I'm guessing those didn't have any effect on our current crisis.

          Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

          by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:10:44 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  60 dem senators (0+ / 0-)

            and nothing being done for financial reform. Dodd 1/60th of the problem but that is a large part.

            •  The Perfect/The Merely Good (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              N in Seattle

              Seriously homes, if you think that nothing is being done, you're naive. 60 Senators has always been less meaningful than you seem to think (pieces at 538 about "The Myth Of 60" abounded back in the spring, and they're very worth reading). Negotiation, compromise are part of governance. To take your blocks and go home because the rest of us aren't playing exactly the way you tell us to is petulant and counterproductive.

              Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

              by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:31:29 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  sorry nothing being done (0+ / 0-)

                2 years after the crisis hit and no financial reform yet, can't blame that on repubs either.

                •  you're assuming (0+ / 0-)

                  that because someone wrote that he did something wrong, that he actually did it. Doesn't evidence matter? Do you give up the right to due process when you run for office? How can you be so cavalier about facts?

                  I know we all walk around with an understanding of the world, and when something confronts us that doesn't fit that understanding it is jarring. When that happens, you're faced with a choice-- you can force the facts to fit in the box that is your mind, or you can question your own understanding of the world.

                  How can so many people be so sure they're right?

                  Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                  by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:41:39 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  sorry, wrong thread/misclick (0+ / 0-)

                  Here's my response to your comment: it may well be that nothing has been finished but that's not the same as nothing being done. It's not moving as fast as you'd like-- fine. But that's in part because the repubs aren't there to negotiate in good faith, and part because having 60 votes really just means that every individual has a pocket veto b/c of repub intransigence. No wonder it's moving slowly.

                  Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                  by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:43:26 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I know that's the reality (0+ / 0-)

                    and your point about 60 votes means each has a pocket veto but that is the problem and is the root of what I'm complaining about.

                    •  it doesn't seem to be (0+ / 0-)

                      You're reaction is "throw the bums out" but you're painting Dodd unfairly. He pushed hard for the CC reform bill earlier this year. He's been doing double-duty on HCR and Financial Reform ever since.

                      Can you elaborate please? What is the root of your complaint? I understood your position to be that Dodd was corrupt because (a) Mediasezso and (b) He voted for Bernanke. To which my reaction is, corruption =/= disagreement. You don't have the market cornered on what's right. Isn't it possible that you're wrong and he's right? (it's equally possible that it's the other way around, obviously. i'm saying, acknowledge the possibility that you might conceivably be wrong.)

                      Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                      by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:50:40 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not "glad" at all (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        N in Seattle

        Senator Dodd has done some good things and some not so good things.  

        I felt he didn't show his best side in the primary debates when running for President, frankly, but there are other things that he took a stand on that was laudable.  A little late, but laudable, like the credit card legislation.

        Sounds like the person stepping in to run is going to be a great candidate, though.  

        •  Blumenthal (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          N in Seattle

          btw, "Glad" query was directed at Relentless, who seems to be in the wind currently.

          Re: Blumenthal, yeah, I think he's been an excellent public servant. Been our AG since 1990, and there have been some excellent diaries recently extolling his achievements in that office. The think I like best about him? He could've cruised to the governor's office many times in the past 12 years, or into a house seat-- he stayed put because he liked his job. Bill Curry said something on the radio the other day about how Dick Blumenthal frustrated state dems by not running for higher office because "there was only one other job he wanted." Now that job is open, and he's gonna go for it.

          Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

          by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:39:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Why I'm 'Glad' (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        relentless

        Here's why:

        NAFTA
        GATT
        Telecom
        Graham Leach Bliley
        Patriot Acts
        AUMF-Iraq

        And the biggest kick in the gut...TARP.

        Is that enough?

  •  diary supporting Dodd? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    qwertyuiop

    Is this dailykos or dailybluedog?

    •  Snark? I hope? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      N in Seattle, TeddySanFran

      Keeping my powder dry until you tell me if you seriously think Dodd's a blue dog.

      Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

      by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:05:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  dodd's ok on sociali issues (0+ / 0-)

        that don't matter but he's a neoliberal when it comes to economics which means he's a blue dog.

        •  this right here (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FishBiscuit

          On Dec 17th, 2009 Senator Dodd voted for extending Ben Bernanke's Term [28]. In voting for Bernanke, the panel's chairman, Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said Bernanke's "wise leadership" will mean "better days do lie ahead.".

          Is grounds for dismissal.

          •  what makes you an expert? (0+ / 0-)

            Again, I readily admit I am out of my depth in hardcore financial discussions. But can you at the very least say what you think Bernanke's crimes are, and what should've been done differently? That will help me understand where you're coming from.

            What I'm saying is-- what degrees/experiences do you have that make you so sure that Bernanke's leadership has been unwise?

            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:13:01 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  economics are not that complicated (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              back of a knapkin analyst

              guys on wall st try to make it complicated so you don't know when you're being swindled. TARP was a crime for the simple reason that they stole from the poor and gave to the rich. It's part of the whole distribution of wealth that is the heart of the depression going on across the globe right now. I don't need a degree to know that an oligarchy is wrong.

              •  Economics ARE that complicated, but I finally agr (0+ / 0-)

                ee with you-- sorta. Oligarchy is wrong, and you don't need a degree for that. And I don't mean to be condescending or elitist about an education, I just mean that fiscal and monetary policy are incredibly delicate policy instruments. Each is capable of sending the country into a tailspin. Most consequences are unintended.

                People like you who seem so sure of what is right and of the right way to proceed, and further that it is not even so complicated as to deserve intelligent debate-- frankly, you'd scare the piss out of me if you had any power. So I guess maybe it's a good thing that you're determined to shoot yourself in the foot by picking fights with people who probably come to politics from the same basic perspective.

                Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:34:41 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  well truth is (0+ / 0-)

                  I am college educated in economics and that's how I know economics are not complicated. If you can do basic math you can understand that at the same time as wall st got a trillion in bailouts the american main st lost about a trillion worth of their wealth, and if you can put two and two together yiou can figure out the reason for layoffs.

                  •  good thing I can't add or subtract (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    skohayes

                    </snark>

                    Look. That econ wasn't complicated for you explains why you majored in it. But damnit, if you're an econ major, why wouldn't you want to make a clear argument instead of rushing in and trying to bloody noses? You're ignoring my basic question: How does that help anyone?

                    Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

                    by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:45:50 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  more labels do not a coherent thought make n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TeddySanFran

          Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

          by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:11:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  You're calling Dodd a Blue Dog? (0+ / 0-)

      LOL!!

      Save the Earth! It's the only one that has chocolate.

      by skohayes on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:52:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you (7+ / 0-)

    For defending Chris Dodd from this unfair smear.

    The shame of it is that his entire career has been an attempt to redeem his father's having been hounded unfairly from public office after serving as a prosecutor at Nuremburg.  So it's especially important to make very clear that there was no wrongdoing with regard to the Dodds' mortgage with Countrywide.

    It's become shorthand in the media to refer to a 'sweetheart VIP' mortgage when there was no such thing.  Your diary is an invaluable reference.

    I will always hold a special place in my heart for Chris Dodd's heroic work on civil liberties during the FISA fight.

    •  Thank YOU (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lying eyes, santacruz

      for reading and commenting. I couldn't agree more that he's deserving of defense. I just hope that this will garner enough interest/attention to have a fighting chance at gaining the momentum we need to change this media narrative.

      Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

      by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:36:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I bet his Daddy wasn't corrupt either? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FishBiscuit

      Look, crooks are crooks regardless of political party. Adios Dodd. We're better off without you

      •  You're assuming (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Frank

        that because someone wrote that he did something wrong, that he actually did it. Doesn't evidence matter? Do you give up the right to due process when you run for office? How can you be so cavalier about facts?

        I know we all walk around with an understanding of the world, and when something confronts us that doesn't fit that understanding it is jarring. When that happens, you're faced with a choice-- you can force the facts to fit in the box that is your mind, or you can question your own understanding of the world.

        How can so many people be so sure they're right?

        Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

        by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 11:46:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  How can so many people be so sure they're right? (0+ / 0-)

          Because none of us could get the same deal as the senior senator from Connecticut?

          •  I know it's long, but... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            texasmom

            ...did you read the actual diary?

            I'm saying that he got the re-fi in a completely above-board fashion. So if any of us are possessed of the same credit rating and real estate to borrow against, we could've gotten the same deal.

            If you're suggesting impropriety, can you be more specific? What parts of the above do you refute?

            I get the anger and frustration. I don't get the eagerness to accept that someone like Dodd did something wrong just because the media said so.

            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:47:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Your inability to get the same deal (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skohayes

            makes you sure of his guilt without regard for facts? How does that make sense?

            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:55:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Actually they could (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            texasmom, 2hands0feet

            Anyone with the credit rating of Dodd and his wife can negotiate points off of mortgages and refinances.
            It's a pretty common practice, actually.

            Save the Earth! It's the only one that has chocolate.

            by skohayes on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 01:01:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Precisely (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              skohayes

              People are so eager to assume that there was wrongdoing here. Again, this makes perfect sense given the hostility toward Washington that is so pervasive right now. But I can't for the life of me understand how that is so blinding to people that they (a) don't care that Dodd's been vindicated and (b) don't value his record enough to take a second look at his accusers and their enablers.

              Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

              by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 02:34:24 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  I'll say it once more (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            2hands0feet

            I received a very similar deal (low rate, no closing) near the same time on our re-fi. Even though our mortgage balance was much lower (I'm guessing) we received what the press is still labeling a "preferential deal."  I am no one special at all.

            As I recall, several other Kossacks came forward in 2008 with stories of receiving very similar mortgage terms.  

            Sometimes it's better to individually address a problem rather than just criticize our politicians for failing to do so.

            by texasmom on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 01:14:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Freddie and Fannie had good loans (0+ / 0-)

    but a lot of bad loans were pushed on them by 'the powers that be'.  Wall Street plans on privatizing Freddie and Fannie after the two companies have either paid off their loans or have went bankrupt.

    I don't blame Dodd any more for that than I do the rest of the government that could have stopped that from happening.   But he did let them do it.

    •  The bad loans were pushed on Freddie (0+ / 0-)

      and Fannie after or during the market crash.

      Fannie and Freddie offered good loans to those who had tight budgets, but they didn't do the dishonest things unless it happened after the original guys that ran them left the companies.

      •  Don't disagree. But you're being myopic. (0+ / 0-)

        This is basically another form of a purity test, and I don't see how that helps, y'know?

        My point is roughly this: Chris Dodd's body of work over 30 yrs in the Senate and 5 in the House has been damn fine. Imperfect, to be sure. Fallen short in places. And sure, he wasn't a one-man wrecking ball on the kind of things you're talking about.
        But I don't think those are reasonable expectations. And the willingness to dump a guy whose values are so well-aligned with progressives, who has been tireless in his work on behalf of the disadvantaged, who has used his proximity to finance tycoons at least in part to stand up for the rest of us-- I think it's really, really unwise to throw a guy like that over the side.

        Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

        by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:01:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  do the Ben Franklin (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          relentless

          on this side of the ledger:

          NAFTA
          GATT
          Telecom
          Graham Leach Bliley
          AUMF-Iraq
          Patroit Acts
          TARP

          the other side:

          Family Leave
          Head Start

          I'll give the Senator the great credit he and his staff deserve for having great constituent service, although Lieberman's office didn't exactly set a high bar.

          •  working on my own list (0+ / 0-)

            gimme a few min pls. the other side's longer than you're remembering.

            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:48:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  wait, lieberman does const. services? (0+ / 0-)

            I certainly couldn't tell when I contacted him over the years. Right back with that list.

            Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

            by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:52:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Errands to run (0+ / 0-)

    Will be away from comments for at least a couple hours. Hope there's still traffic at that point!

    Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

    by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 12:12:29 PM PST

  •  But, but.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes

    Banks! Oligar(c)hy! Bailout Evil! Fannie! Freddie!

    Facts? What a concept.

  •  Dodd a Disappointment (0+ / 0-)

    Always thought he would serve as a John Dempsey Democrat.

    As a fierce protector of the New Deal, he failed.

    There is just no other way to look at it, and I'm very sorry for that.

    •  Always other ways to look at it (0+ / 0-)

      Opinion being different from fact and all that.

      I respect your opinion, recognizing it is very different from my own. I hope that we can all avoid being so rigid as to think that our own interpretation of events is the only possible correct reading of the world.

      Also: Hurray for civil disagreement! Thanks for being here. Sorry I haven't provided promises counter-list yet, the evening has started to get busier than anticipated.

      Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

      by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 02:35:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Didn't want it to be that way (0+ / 0-)

        but I have to be honest with myself.

        I met Senator Dodd while he was Congressman Dodd at the then annual Democratic Picnic.  I worked for him in 1986 and 1992.

        IMHO, he got caught up in the whole DLC Third Way groupthink that has dominated the Democratic Party since about 1989.  He is not alone in his betrayal of the New Deal core of the Democratic brand, and he did retain enough of his Progressive bona-fides with me until TARP.  That was the last straw.

        It was the final kick in the gut because that was a once in a generation moment to act on our core principles and show Wall Street and Reaganism the woodshed.  It could have been done (bailout)in a way that was favorable to Main Street.  

        Instead, Senator Dodd took our moment triumph and turned it into a surrender ceremony.  That's where he lost me for good, and IMHO, it cost him his seat, not the Countrywide non-story.  Countywide became an deadly only  in light of TARP and AIG.  There was career ending synergy in these stories.

        I wish the man well.  Who knows, maybe he will find the spirit of John Demsey again in his final year.  And who knows what could happen if he did...2012 is right around the corner.

        I appreciate your loyalty to the man.  There is something to be said for that.  But just as a Clint Eastwood character said, "we've all got it comin', kid".

        •  Your experience vastly exceeds my own (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jobu

          Thanks for fleshing out your thoughts, it's very helpful to me. I was born the first year that you worked for him, and I honestly don't feel able to refute the points you make. I find the Third Way stuff to be beautiful as concept, but that it was deadly as politics is well-demonstrated.

          I'm guessing you will agree with me that Sen. Dodd positioned himself on TARP for what he thought were good reasons. Conjecture is pretty meaningless, I suppose-- I personally believe he did it out of a fear of the damage that a gutted economy might do to an Obama presidency. Even if this were his thinking, of course, it didn't pan out.

          So I'm not sure where to go from there. It's a position certainly deserving of attack, and the last sliver of naivete left in me hates those who attacked his motives and character instead of limiting themselves to his politics. I suppose that is the nature of the game.

          Speaking of naivete, while writing a paper on Dodd's candidacy in 2008 for a senior seminar I was struck by a certain level of innocence in some of his floor statements. It's not that he's unaware of political realities (much the opposite) it's that he openly and fervently pines for a more noble discourse. This came through in floor debate over any number of bills during the Reagan years. In retrospect, I couldn't see the DLC context for those words. I wasn't looking for it. I so admire the man's sense of decency, of tone, his burning desire to say yes to something imperfect rather than pursue perfect policy. That can, at times, be blinding.

          But charges of corruption I cannot stomach. And I'm glad that I spent the time to pull this diary together today, and that it attracted some measure of traffic. Just sorry I couldn't resist getting hauled into a flame war.

          While we're at it, if you've made it this far: thoughts on Blumenthal? Alpert? Listening to a replay of Where We Live this evening I realized that I really like Alpert's manner and ideas, and that I hope he does well enough in this primary to be our answer for Lieberman. Would love to hear your thoughts.

          Cheers.

          Do you feel safer now? Do you think you will anytime soon? Do you think duck tape and Kleenex and color codes will make you safer?

          by 2hands0feet on Fri Jan 08, 2010 at 05:20:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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