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When I go off on my rants to overtly pious Christians and fanatical Republicans, they say, "Well, I don't condone or support the farthest extremes of my group" (they just continue to make excuses for them)

Recently my favorite antagonist here asked me if I supported the "farthest fringest of the Left" and he cited Kieth Olbermann as his target, and said, "you don't support that nutcase, do you?"

You're goddamned right I do.

This person who asked if I supported Olbermann is a guy who still thinks Bush a noble and honorable man - including his father HW Bush who recently called both Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow "sick puppies". He faults HW Bush for raising taxes, but nothing more.

I make no apologies or excuses for either Rachel or Kieth, and I (having teh Google and a lot of free time on my hands) feel confident and assured that these two people stand on solid ground. Far more solid than anyone in the Bush administration or their shameless apologists, and if I did believe in "G"od, I'd not shivver or fear standing before "H"im and explaining why.

That's my opinion. And here's why I hold it.  

Keith gets it - and these recent events that involve his father have had me so racked with tears as I watch them, (because they're so close to home for me) I'd let him make my end-of-life decisions if I were unable. He gets it. He has the credentials - what my father used to call the "bona fides" - to speak on these subjects.

My father was going through his steepest decline and death by alcohol poisoning at his own hand right as the Terry Schiavo saga was being played out; if you recall congressional Republican's Christmas vacation stunt to pass a law they knew had no chance of surviving judicial review.

And yet two weeks before he died I drove my dad to the polling station,  knowing he was casting his vote to re-elect GWB and any other Republican on the ballot (At least at a national level).

For those of you who know me, and what my father went through in his final years, you'll understand this. I've reached a point in my life, part of which was achieved after a surreal event here on Daily Kos regarding a diary about my dad, that I'm now stalwartly convicted to my thinking and likely will not ever change without a frontal lobotomy. I can't dig it up again because it's too close to home, but it's about life and death and what role the government plays in that decision.

Or shouldn't.

From assisted suicide to gay marriage to health care, the Republican party is antithetical to every talking point they claim to stand for. They say they love individual freedom and liberty, yet they threaten to pass a constituional amendment to declare they know best who a person can love.

They claim they are for states rights; yet in the Terry Schiavo case, like Bush V Gore, they used their federal authority - the one they claim should be so limited when it comes to taking care of other Americans in matters of health care or Social Security, to overrule a situation that had been adjudicated at the state level. Same goes for marijuana laws they claim they are for states rights, but every time a state passes drug laws they don't like, they threaten to use the Federal Government to set it the way they think it ought to be. (Drugs are not my thing, but I have no issue for those who indulge it, as the "legal" drug called alcohol has caused far more damage to my life than the "illegal" ones we keep trying to demonize the users for)

So when people ask me why I am a Democrat - and they say it with a tone in their voice like they really want to say "Commie Faggot Lepper Devil-worshipper", Keith Olbermann is one of the guys who gives me the strength to wash myself of their hyperbolic bullshit and - as if I had faith - allow myself to sleep peacefully at night that I've got it right on these matters. Despite being utterly excommunicated from those who I used to know as friends and family, when I sleep at night the fear of having to explain myself to some divine judge is not what troubles me.  

I'm suicidal, sure - but not about my views on government and why we have one and what it's for. I'm ready to give up because so many people who insist that they love their country are so eager to splinter it as if the word "United" in the name of this country really was a superfluous rhetorical oversight.  

Keith, you are an inspiration to me. You get it.

I wish you did not have to face what you are going through with your father. But since you have allowed us into your life to share these most personal of decisions, I for one am grateful to know there is at least one other person of prominence on the Left who really does get it.

Thank you, Keith. Thank you for sharing with us.

After listening to your comments these last few nights, I feel as if you are telling us about your situation so that we may see how such end of life decisions can give a family peace, even if they piss off a lot of sanctimonious and hypocritical Republicans.

Peace be on you and your family.

Originally posted to snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 06:39 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

      •  Thanks. The reason I'm such a mess is because (15+ / 0-)

        like my father, I dont' want anyone else to have to go through what he did -

        yet they do love their individual freedom and liberty to keep making their own decisions.

        Hard when the guy who taught me what was right and wrong and what was worth standing up for becomes the poster child for everything he told me to stand up against.

        But he did it his way, and that's his perogative.

        So speaking out is mine.

        That's how I make peace with it.

        George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

        by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 06:54:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  please dont harm yourself. (11+ / 0-)

          please.

          Laughter is a force for democracy - John Cleese

          by GlowNZ on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 06:55:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Here's the best answer i can offer. (10+ / 0-)

            If you ever read through my writing, or if we ever get to meet in person, please just accept this:

            Despite my critics who think they know better, I am a lucid, rational, and absurdly logical mind.

            On that day that I might give up, please just accept my assertion (as who else would know?) that at that moment, going dark was the lesser of all the other evils I felt at that moment.

            I see peace at the end of that road.

            Those who keep berating me not to go through with it are often the loudest jackals in the crowd who keep me from finding that peace.

            (not talking about you there)

            I'm sure I'm about to get a fresh crowd of self-proclaimed therapists and doctors to tell me how much they know better what's in my head or what should be - and they'll never accept that in truth it's been a chorus of people with that kind of shameless arrogance who for twenty years have built this broken man you're now seeing.

            And so it goes. (apologies to Kurt Vonnegut)

            Thanks for your sentiment. I do understand you are sincere. Somehow, I'll cheer up when more people can recognize that I am too. (not referencing you)

            George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

            by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:13:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  oh god,,, (4+ / 0-)

              i hate it when you are right.  
              It is your choice to make.   I will likely be very sad if you do it but will understand.  The difficulty for me is that i have had five friends kill themselves and so i have a aversion to it.

              Especially when its people i care about.  But i guess thats being selfish.  Sometimes there is a limit to the amount of pain a person can take.

              Laughter is a force for democracy - John Cleese

              by GlowNZ on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:18:16 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm always caught in a trap; I promise I do not (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GlowNZ, Seamus D, red mittens, kattdrakken

                say such things to cause pain or anguish to others.

                I really only want to be able to use that freedom and liberty that we think this country is so guarded about so that I don't have to lie to people just in order to maintain a smile on my face.

                The greatest thing I can fault this country for is this perennial delusion that just because we're supposedly greater than any other country that we're a great country.

                Fine distinction, but it's true.

                Somewhere out there is the "greatest" serial killer. Doesn't make him the "greatest" guy at large.

                So -

                In the end, I do not mean to dismiss your sentiment. I believe you can see and understand my perspective, and i do not say the things i say to generate effect - they're just candid expressions of how things look and feel to me.

                I can't be happy if it comes at the expense of other's being miserable - which is ironic.

                But I look at my country now, and I see one particular party who seem to be saying, "I'm fine, and fuck the rest of you if you're not because that's the way God and Thomas Jefferson (and Ayn Rand) think it ougth to be"

                ...and I cant abide by that kind of mentality.

                It just blows me away that we still have the gall to use the word "United" in the name of htis country given the attiudes of the Republican party right now who seem to think that half the nation is not only disposable or already guilty of treason but that they can still function and not miss a beat if they suddenly got their wish and we all disappeared.

                To think that they sleep at night believing "G"od loves them and not us -

                Shit, I'd believe in "G"od if that meant I might get a chance to have a conversation with "H"im and ask him to explain this shit.

                Because down here on earth amongst the mortals, the ones who keep spouting sanctimonious, self-righteous piety are the ones who are so often the ones who convince me it's time to captulate and give up on my own terms before someone else demands I give up on their terms.

                Thanks for this conversation. I hope you can tell that a simple connection through the ether sometimes can be enough.

                Other times I stick around just to piss off my critics, so spite isn't all bad.

                :)

                George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

                by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:38:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  :) (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  snafubar, red mittens, kattdrakken

                  I can't be happy if it comes at the expense of other's being miserable - which is ironic

                  I know how that goes but in the end you can't live your life being unhappy to make other people happy,

                  I tried to be like that and i guess i still am.  I hate seeing other people in pain and suffering.   I suppose im a hypocrite for telling you to do something i can't do myself.  so my advice is probably best ignored.  

                  in the end, i want you to do and be what makes you feel right.

                  Laughter is a force for democracy - John Cleese

                  by GlowNZ on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:42:32 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  He keeps looking for people (5+ / 0-)

                who will take him as he is.

                He's finding us.  

            •  Okay, but question: (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              snafubar, GlowNZ, kattdrakken

              On that day that I might give up, please just accept my assertion (as who else would know?) that at that moment, going dark was the lesser of all the other evils I felt at that moment.

              Don't you think that 'FELT AT THAT MOMENT' is what allows so many to try to argue with you about this?

              I mean there are people we love or hate at some moments only to have those feelings turned on their head at other times.  This is true for anything - what food you like, what activities you enjoy, what your priorities or goals are at any given moment - THEY ARE NOT ONLY SUBJECT TO CHANGE, change is the only sure thing.

              So given that a 'moment' in time has you choosing 'going dark,' can't you at least acknowledge that at the next moment you might feel differently?  And if you can acknowledge that, then you have to see the wisdom in 'suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.'

              "Don't Bet Against Us" - President Barack Obama

              by MRA NY on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:05:52 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm more methodical than that. Thats how I've (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GlowNZ, MRA NY, kattdrakken

                survived this long.

                The sad part about it is that it's my loudest critics who usually are my strongest evidence that I serve no purpose here.

                I don't want to air it out here again - but there's a method to my proclaimed madness.

                Sometimes, if every time I open my mouth there's someone there to slap it, silence it, or rewrite what comes out of it -

                that's not a momentary thing, it's a long accumlated resevoir of bile that will just never stop being bitter and corrosive.

                my email is still in my profile I think.

                The rest of my logic is in previous diaries. I'll leave it to you if you're up for it.

                no hard feelings; I understand your intentions and i appreciate the sentiment. I hope my intentions are similarly transparent to those who earnestly seek to understand them.

                Peace.

                George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

                by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:25:02 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  .I have a lot of people who don't (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  snafubar, MRA NY, kattdrakken

                  like me and very few friends.  If i thought that have a lot of people not liking me  was a reason to anhilate myself i would have done so a long time ago.  and in fact tried to a couple of (not so serious) times.

                  there are more people who love you than otherwise my friend.

                  Laughter is a force for democracy - John Cleese

                  by GlowNZ on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:27:26 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I'll have to take a raincheck on the e-mail (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  snafubar, kattdrakken

                  convo as I was supposed to be working on taxes from 8:30 to 11:30, then a couple hours prep work for my first day on the job (census!).

                  I am sure you have been asked several times, but is there NO WAY to get into a different living situation - just cut off from those that would bring you down?

                  I know about being trapped - well, feeling trapped - the obstacles can loom large.  Thing is, eventually I end up somewhere else and, while sometimes scary, stressful and difficult along the way, looking back I always feel it was worth it.  This holds for quitting jobs, cutting off friendships, speaking truth to family members and, currently, walking away from my home.

                  Those first steps always bring such relief that I recognize for the first time the weight of what I am walking away from.  Like the house right now - worked hard as a single mom to have a home to raise my daughter in, built a business on the property - and now, instead of feeling regret, loss or other negative feelings over failing, I am excited about the future.  I am hoping for one of two particular jobs in DC - one I currently view as a 'dream job' but, if neither materializes, I have a plan B that leaves me living at my sister's (where I can't smoke!)  While plan B is light years away from plan A, I also look forward to the freedom it entails and getting my finances under control along the way.

                  I guess, in short, I have not only learned that 'life is what happens to you while you are making other plans' but learned that that is okay - some of the best things to happen are those we did not plan on.

                  I hope you have a peaceful sleep and I look forward to a philosophical discussion sometime in our future. :)

                  "Don't Bet Against Us" - President Barack Obama

                  by MRA NY on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:45:18 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Hi snafu! (13+ / 0-)

    It's nice to see you. I agree with you about Keith - he does get it and I'm glad he's on our side. Glad you are too my friend.

    Big hugs

    Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene.' Homer J. Simpson

    by red mittens on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 06:50:26 PM PST

  •  Well done, though this really threw me: (7+ / 0-)

    I'm suicidal, sure

    After just having read the diary on the rec list, without commenting despite my first hand experiences with the topic, you really jarred me with that one.

    While I do not want to pry, you have put it out there and I have to ask if you are addressing this - with treatment or at least reaching out to get past it.

    All the best...

    "Don't Bet Against Us" - President Barack Obama

    by MRA NY on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 06:52:11 PM PST

    •  If you are REALLY REALLY bored, you need only (4+ / 0-)

      track back through my previous diaries to figure out what it's all about.

      Let me put it this way - I'm an atheist.

      A stone cold, unapologetic atheist.

      When I finally die, all the shit that makes me apoplectic will finally be over.

      So it's always ironic when the people who are so often the ones right up in my face making me apoplectic are the ones who simultaneously give me shit for having such dark thoughts.

      I hate irony.

      Sorry if I made you uncomfortable.

      I am who I am, if i knew how to be someone else -

      well, that would fix a lot of it, I'm sure.

      But I don't.

      Peace.

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 06:56:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am a very athiest athiest as well. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snafubar, red mittens, kattdrakken

        I think the same way as you do.

        janine

        Laughter is a force for democracy - John Cleese

        by GlowNZ on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 06:57:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Honestly, I don't think your being an athiest has (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snafubar, kattdrakken

        anything to do with whether or not suicide is a good option.  Just because you don't believe in an afterlife is supposed to be a 'defense' of suicide as an option?  If anything, it should have the opposite effect (as a Catholic who has never feared death, I always found my faith a good 'defense' since all the shit I was dealing with would be over, AND I could look forward to an afterlife - talk about your irony.)  If this is all there is, then all the more reason to make your stay as long and fruitful as possible.

        Yeah, I went back and skimmed several of your diaries, and I'm sure what I caught is only a brief glimpse of several miserable things that have happened.

        Sorry, that is not gonna entitle you to hijack one of my favorite lines 'I am who I am' - goes something like this, though I couldn't find the actual:

        I am who I am
        I know what I could have been
        Had I done what I did not do

        Tell me friend
        not what I should have done yesterday
        but what I can do today
        to be where I want to be
        tomorrow.

        A lotta wisdom in that little poem. IT IS NOT ABOUT YESTERDAY. (yeah, I know, easier said than done.)

        Ya know, I could write several paragraphs about some pretty horrible things in my life, but I'm not going to.  Suffice it to say, I was neither looking for any apology from you for possibly making me 'uncomfortable' nor did I expect your comment about someone 'giving you shit for having such dark thoughts' - though, by the fifth read or so of your comment, I finally got that you were'nt talking about me! (my reply was looking a little different when I thought you were blasting me with that AND with your comment below - LOL)

        As one who has been there, on several occasions, I was just extending a hand - and as one who spent 50 years unable to ask for help across a wide spectrum of needs, I will continue to do so when I read things that show evidence of despair.

        And if you want to jump all over me for that, well feel free cuz I too 'am what I am.'

        Peace back at ya.

        "Don't Bet Against Us" - President Barack Obama

        by MRA NY on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:57:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Duly noted and appreciated. Blogs are so hard (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GlowNZ, MRA NY, kattdrakken

          to properly communicate; as they are often non-linear, chronologically erratic, and of course are absent of so many of the other non-verbal cues we use to communicate with in person.

          If I came across as "blasting" anyone in this thread, that's an error on my behalf.

          Trust me  - if you do go back and get deep into my other diaries and comments, you'll realize that when I 'blast' someone - you won't be confused or will you be able to miss it.

          :)

          I tend to get my hackles up when I mentino suicide and suddenly it becomes a pissing contest between somoene who doesn't know me from Mark Twain who wants me to know that they've lost XX friends to suicide and ....

          ...always gets me in trouble at that point when I say somethign like "Well if you treated your 'friend' the way you just treated me, I can see why they went through with it."

          That's about the time things go way beyond ugly.

          So - on the overall scale of things  - tonight was a cake walk.

          I just went another round with my neighbor tonight - and althougth he and I always and I mean ALWAYS make peace (he's just always cheerful, even when he's dying) that his thinking is so ideologically twisted and demonstrably incoherent - it's hard to wash that off in less than a day or two.

          That's part of what's not said in this diary that might be showing through anyway.

          Thanks for your comment.

          Peace all over ya. :)

          George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

          by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:16:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think your neighbor (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            snafubar, GlowNZ, kattdrakken

            enjoys jerking your chain.  I seem to recall suggesting you walk away muttering something about being cheap entertainment just to see how he reacts.

            •  At this point, he's got his program, I've got (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kattdrakken

              mine.

              I wince at the lunacy of his positions, but you know from the Fleetguy experience that some people just keep that smile on their face because they have declared that even if they're wrong, they're just never wrong.

              I'm miserable because sometimes I know I'm wrong.

              On those occasions when i know I'm not, (figuratively) I'm staying until the referee calls it or one of us doesn't get up any longer.

              If I smiled and didn't care, I'd be even more miserable because my tongue would never heal from biting it so hard.

              George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

              by snafubar on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 12:54:35 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  If your interlocutor thinks Keith Olberman (8+ / 0-)

    is the farthest fringe of the Left, s/he's as dumb as a box of rocks, no offense to rocks intended.
    The Overton Window in this country is so far to the Right that Barry Goldwater, who destroyed the liberal wing of the Republican party, is now too "centrist" for the right wingers.
    I can't imagine what your friend would do sitting down to converse with a genuine Leftist, a Socialist, say, or FSM forbid, an actual Communist.
    The Right loves freedom so much they criminalized people whose political ideas they disagree with. Some freedom.

    I heard some guy say that the arc of history bends slowly, but that it bends towards justice.

    by DaNang65 on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 06:57:23 PM PST

    •  They needs them some demons, so they invent them (7+ / 0-)

      at will, regardless of how demonic they might actually be.

      That's part of the reason I can still sleep at all at night -

      Why do the people that think the US is the "Greatest Country In The World (TM)" and that "G"od loves them (but not me) have to get so upset at the words of people like me and Olbermann?

      Wouldn't their "G"od protect them from the likes of us?

      If The country is so great, what would we ever have ot fear?

      I know their apoplexy is really a measure of their own fear and insecurity -

      it's just that they outnumber me in my local circles and it's hard to fight back without becoming a monster in my own right.

      Freedom only means that the government can't shut you up. It gives no guarantee whatsoever that the populace at large can't eat one alive and shit the remains on the lawn and get away with it.

      When I'm really depressed, I talk to the rocks.

      They're so much more reasonable and logical.

      :)

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:06:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Don't give up. (10+ / 0-)

    We need you. And there's more of us than there are of those who would splinter the country... they just happen to (unfortunately) be really noisy.

    I too cry at Keith's comments lately, having been through the deaths of many loved ones. I wouldn't wish what he's going through on my worst enemy, let alone someone I respect. And I respect him all the more for discussing things which are clearly painful for him. I can't help but think he's gotten through to at least a few hard-headed "death-panel" repeaters.

    Knit, purl, or get out of the way!

    by mcronan on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:02:17 PM PST

    •  Thanks for reaching out. I get labelled by a lot (4+ / 0-)

      of people here as a drama queen or a sympathy slut.

      I sort of cherish those kinds of heartless people because in doing what they do, they illustrate quite shamelessly (and with grand oblivion) everything that it is that drives people like me to the bottom, even if they can never admit to themselves the role they play in all the misery.

      I don't care if Kieth ever gets through the thick skulls of the Death Panel liars; I just need him to stand out there and do what he does so I can have the strength to stand in his wake or off to the side and do it on my own.

      I do appreciate your comment.

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:54:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you. . . (9+ / 0-)

    but please stay with the community.  We need your insight.

    "Why you sockdologizing ol' mantrap, you!"

    by ejoanna on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:02:58 PM PST

    •  Well, I'll put you in my roster of sympathetic (6+ / 0-)

      voices.

      Remember when mom used to say things like

      "well, if the kids you play with don't treat you fairly, don't play with them any more"?

      Sometimes I look at the state of this nation, this world and realize if I were to take  her words to heart...

      I do appreciate the comisseration.

      I just see a lot of people around me and in places of prominence who have twisted both the Bible and the Constitution so tightly that if Jesus and Thomas Jefferson were here, there would be a lot of divine vomit and patriotic tears in their midst.

      I didn't really write this diary for my own sympathy - there's about to be some choice people who will inevitably show up to piss on me and call me a "drama queen" or a "terrorist" for mentioning such thoughts - and they'll never see the irony.

      Thanks for your humanity.

      Now - lets you and I both agree to keep trying to make that a more popular ideal all the way around.

      For that, I'll stick around as best I can manage.

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:24:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hey, snafubar... (7+ / 0-)

    Thank you for being so honest and so real. We can always count on that from you.

    Hang in there.

    XOXO,
    ear

    "Women shouldn't be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of women." droogie6655321

    by earicicle on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:16:21 PM PST

    •  I always smile when I see your name (5+ / 0-)

      After the fallout I encountered at Street Prophets, I'm probably not going to NN10; although money might be a better reason.

      But I do remember the warmth and humanity that you are such a bright example of.

      Thanks for the outreach.

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:18:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What a sweet thing to say! (5+ / 0-)

        Weren't you working at NN09? Maybe you could get the same gig? Flights to Vegas should be cheap, and rooms definitely are. I don't know what happened at S.Prophets...but if you had a fall out with a bunch of religious folks, aren't they supposed to forgive--BY DEFINITION?!?! Episcopal girl here, so I'm pretty sure that's in Ye Olde Goode Booke somewhere! ;-)

        C'mon: An atheist can't miss a convention in Sin City!!!

        "Women shouldn't be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of women." droogie6655321

        by earicicle on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:30:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe an atheist knows that in Sin City (5+ / 0-)

          I might over-indulge myself anyway.

          It's all good. I can get the vicarious pleasure of giving my NN10 registration to someone else who would not otherwise be able to go.

          George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

          by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:40:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  If he could get there, he'd have a room. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          snafubar, GlowNZ, earicicle, kattdrakken

          He knows that.

          And the brouhaha on the Street was not snafubar's fault.  Some of it was his doing, but NONE of the blame was his.  It was his misfortune to have to try to deal with one of the more oblivious and pompous theological conservatives on the planet - one who kept promising to no longer do what he then promptly proceeded to do again.  And that particular person does not push any buttons on the person who was in charge at the time, ....

          Several of us tried to deal with the problem, but we didn't succeed.

          •  Wow. I might have to print this out and frame it. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GlowNZ, earicicle, kattdrakken

            that is -

            well, maybe you know how much I needed to hear it all framed in just those terms.

            Sometimes it's just the right combination of words in one short paragraph that puts the right lid on the garbage can.  

            Thanks.

            I should tell you that my college buddy with the "Satan is the voice of evil" wife is trying to be diplomatic and talk about everything secular under the sun so we might still have something to talk about. I'm taking the opportunity to indulge him in his efforts. So far so good.

            But If I ever see John, DB or Rain - please, push me out of the room as fast as you can.

            You're a good human, JS. I'll always have a sanctuary in my memories for those who tried to put out the fire with something other than more napalm, and you're one of the more noble firefighters I've known in this life.

            George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

            by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:06:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Oblivious & pompous theological conservative... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tropical Depression, kattdrakken

            Hmm...now why on earth would somewhat like that push anyone's buttons??? ;-)

            Holy crap (pun intended). I'd probably have gone apeshit, too.

            "Women shouldn't be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of women." droogie6655321

            by earicicle on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:15:23 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Wonder if that's the person (or one of) (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kattdrakken

            whose POV convinced me that SP isn't the place for me.

  •  Long time no talk to - (5+ / 0-)

    I'm so glad to see you are still haunting the halls of the Great Orange Satan :-)

    Thought you'd like to know - even though I'm not "there" right now, I have been before, and I presume I will be again.  And you are one of the few people I can imagine talking to about it.

    So, out of my own selfishness, I'm asking you to hang around in case I need someone to talk to?

    •  Duly noted. And as a fellow traveller, you'll (3+ / 0-)

      understand that we all have our own reasons for being "there".

      I'm still nurturing strength from my most vociferous critics, who I imagine will show up in here before too long, so I'll probably go to bed and hope I can ignore them.

      The SP thing still hangs very heavy on me, and the reason why is that the people who gave me more reasons than they will ever admit that my presence on this planet would nto be missed are precisely the ones who think they had all the goods on me.

      And they'll never admit the irony.

      There's a few more deeper layers going on in the background if you want to email me. I've got a girlfriend who's a therapits (ha!) and of course -

      well, I'll have to explain it in private. But she and her parents are both staunch conservatives, and they have absolutely no capacity to realize how their party is cutting their own throats.

      But they can't let go of that blind idealism, despite the fact that they party they vote for never once has ever actually employed or lived up to the rhetoric.

      Ok, going to bed now.

      Thanks for your friendship.

      You still on the wagon?

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:47:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  8 months smober, 2/22. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snafubar, MRA NY, red mittens, kattdrakken

        will shoot you an e-mail.  

        •  Thats inspiration in itself. Stay strong (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ChocolateChris, GlowNZ, kattdrakken

          I was in the grocery store the other day and two people walked in who smelled so bad I actually got out of line at the register and moved down to another one.

          Makes me wonder if anyone ever told them...

          ...or if they could ever believe them if someone did...

          ...or if they surely do know that they inspire people to vomit and proudly enjoy the idea.

          Either way - to those of you who have found the strength to abandon all that - whether those at GUS ever undestand me or not - I salute you with all the respect I have. Because I do understand that monster you walked away from, and how hard he is to keep at bay.

          Here's one raised in your name.

          Congrats, and keep the faith. (Ha!)

          George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

          by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 07:59:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  their words are empty. (0+ / 0-)
  •  This really hits home (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snafubar, GlowNZ, kattdrakken

    My Mom died of alcoholic liver failure 10 days ago.  Fortunately for her, and us, her final decline was so rapid that everyone was caught off guard.

    When a person's organs fail, they follow an order.  And as this order progresses, depending on their illness, the body starts to shut down in a systematic way.

    My mother's liver failure lead to congestive heart, and then kidney failure.  Her final month involved painful swelling, first of her legs, till the point that the fluid seeped through her skin, then of her abdomen, making breathing difficult and causing her to feel frightened and panicky.

    She had hepatic encephalopathy, so she had hallucinations of nazis coming into her room at night.

    She lost a significant amount of control of her bladder and her bowels.

    While all of this was disturbing, what really upset me was the last 30 hours.  She basically drowned in her own body.  They kept her on morphine and atavan for pain and anxiety.  She was unconscious but would startle as if waking from a dream where she was falling, wide-eyed and white-knuckled grabbing of the bed-bar.

    We stayed with her, reading to her and talking.  Telling her it was okay, that we were there when she startled.  Getting the nurses when she became agitated...  It was a horrible but amazing experience to be there for her as she made this transition.

    But honestly, who the fuck would allow their dog or cat to suffocate because their lungs had filled with fluid?  I wouldn't, and I've been with several pets that have been euthanized.  Why do we do what we do to people?  We have more humane methods, and if it weren't for those people whose religious beliefs were so offended by the reduction of fear and suffering, we could alleviate some of both.

    That being said, had that been an option, we would have missed an incredible moment, right before my mother's last breath, where she appeared aware and responsive for just a short time, and where my brother, who hadn't arrived prior to her losing consciousness, was able to tell her he loved her, and she gurgled back at him.  But that moment seemed more for us than for him.

    No matter how fervently you believe that you know what you merely believe, you merely believe it - Dkos Diarist Beket

    by noladq on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:14:58 PM PST

    •  oh no! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      noladq, snafubar, kattdrakken

      i am so sorry for your loss...

      what a terrible way to die.  My grandmother died of emphysema which basically meant she drowned in lung fluid.  Thats just a cruel way to die.  

      &hugs*

      Laughter is a force for democracy - John Cleese

      by GlowNZ on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:17:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  and depression runs in the family (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      snafubar, GlowNZ, kattdrakken

      which was why she drank...

      I know the darkness too well myself, but have found my way out of the hole.  It's too painful a place to be in for me, and I got really lucky with some good support and self-work.

      I can't imagine that atheism has much to do with suicide, but I'm not you, so I can't fathom your thoughts.

      Mine are with you.

      No matter how fervently you believe that you know what you merely believe, you merely believe it - Dkos Diarist Beket

      by noladq on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:21:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  it doesnt. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snafubar, kattdrakken

        a couple of my friends that killed themselves were quite relgious.

        and no, their faith didnt have anything to do with killing themselves but then again it didnt help them either,

        Laughter is a force for democracy - John Cleese

        by GlowNZ on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:23:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Atheism itself has nothing to do with suicide, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        noladq, GlowNZ, kattdrakken

        IMHO -

        however the thoughts of suicide are ironically often compounded and reinforced by sanctimonious and obliviously religious fools who feel entitled to cram the "Good news" about their faith down the throat of someone who is choking to death on it - and they will never

        ever

        accept or admit that it was what was stuck in someone's throat who did not want to swallow it that might have been what killed them, not atheism.

        it's a much longer discussion that can't be answered simply in this forum, but thanks for this small part of it.

        George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

        by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:38:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm so very sorry for your loss. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      noladq, snafubar, GlowNZ, kattdrakken
    •  I think I know why you wrote all that out. And (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GlowNZ, DaNang65, kattdrakken

      I appreciate that you felt inspired to do it by whatever I said that might have triggered it.

      Or that Keith Olbermann's situation might have been the impetus for it.

      My stand - my rage - is that these are all unique stories. These situations are the quintessential exhibition, and arguably the quintessential and most sacred PURPOSE of our individual liberties and freedoms. And for the members of the Republican party to claim that they have some greater understanding of what anyone else would/could want or is entitled to -

      it's unforgivable.

      If i understand your comment in the vein in which it was offered, you understand that too, and you have your own 'bona fides' to speak with authority on the matter. I salute your courage to do so here.

      In the end, I think we agree that whatever methods there are, the choice of which ones to employ, and when, and how, must be left to the individuals who face such choices and the family and loved ones (yes even when the government won't call you a family) to make - not some shamelessly arrogant, sanctimonious, falsely pious politician.

      thank you, noladq, for participating in this discussion. I offer my condolences for your pain, and I hope you have found peace in your own way.

      I particularly like your use of the word "transition".

      That's eloquent, profound, and so personal.

      Peace be on you. And thanks one more time.

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:35:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your post inspired me (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snafubar, kattdrakken

        Particularly this:

        From assisted suicide to gay marriage to health care, the Republican party is antithetical to every talking point they claim to stand for. They say they love individual freedom and liberty, yet they threaten to pass a constituional amendment to declare they know best who a person can love.

        This is the hypocrisy that drives me batshit insane.  And if you at ALL compare how we treat the end of life for a human versus an animal, they lose their damned minds, as if you've said something heretical.  And it may be to them, but they have only their own belief, and it is just that, a belief.  I will not claim to know what is right, but I claim my right to make decisions for myself to the best of my ability and according to my beliefs.

        I just want them to stay the hell out of the business that they claim they are staying out of.

        In the end, I think we agree that whatever methods there are, the choice of which ones to employ, and when, and how, must be left to the individuals who face such choices and the family and loved ones (yes even when the government won't call you a family) to make - not some shamelessly arrogant, sanctimonious, falsely pious politician.

        We most certainly do!

        Thanks for sharing your experience too.  Expressing ourselves in ALL of our emotions, not just the pretty ones, helps us connect as human beings.

        No matter how fervently you believe that you know what you merely believe, you merely believe it - Dkos Diarist Beket

        by noladq on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 05:52:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Got to put my son to bed (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snafubar, DaNang65, kattdrakken

    and get off the computer.. its in my son's room.

    Thanks snafu for a great diary and dicussion.

    hugs

    Laughter is a force for democracy - John Cleese

    by GlowNZ on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:42:01 PM PST

    •  Back at you. I can be found without great (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      noladq, GlowNZ, kattdrakken

      effort if you check my profile.

      Peace be on you, my friend.

      May we all find our own peace

      in our own time

      in our own way

      Seems to me it would be a great idea to found a country that could facilitate that....

      ...

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 08:44:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well, you're welcome (20+ / 0-)

    Gotta say I always thought afterlife/atheism/etc would take care of itself. Either there is, in which case you'd know, and pretty quickly. Or there wasn't. In which case you'd never ever ever have the slightest idea. I can't imagine a big sign appearing reading "Sorry!"

    Politically, nothing should steel you more than knowing that the day NBC finally agreed to free me from our all-Lewinsky show in November 1998 and sold my contract to Fox Sports, as I went to the news conference to announce it I was intercepted in the lobby by John Moody, Fox's News VP, begging me to also work for him. This followed by a few months a note from Roger Ailes encouraging me to join him.

    And then I became the devil.

    As to my Dad, he was opening his eyes tonight. Not really seeing much, and he slipped quickly from bewildered inertia to sleeping with the eyes open. It's another step forward from Houdini. Part of his motivation to fight on has been the awareness that his story has become part of the HCR debate - I won't get all preachy but maybe there's a little role modeling possible here.

    "If you're going through hell - keep going!" -- Winston Churchill

    by Keith Olbermann on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 10:01:13 PM PST

    •  Thank you for the Thurber (7+ / 0-)

      and thank you for sharing your father's improvement with us.

      "Why you sockdologizing ol' mantrap, you!"

      by ejoanna on Mon Mar 01, 2010 at 11:30:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you for this news about your Dad (7+ / 0-)

      As always, my very best wishes to you both.  My father was in a motorcycle accident some time ago and did not make it to the hospital - but I take comfort in the conversation he and I had shortly before that day, aside from the irony that he bragged about being invincible even after two recent crashes.

      I respect your privacy, but please keep us updated on your Dad as you think appropriate - we care very much.

      And, please forgive me if I'm being inappropriate, but could you please give your Dad a gentle hug from me?

    •  There are about thirty pages I could write (4+ / 0-)

      knowing that you're listening, but I'll assume that I'm probably not the only one and that you're just a little busy these days. :)

      It's an honor to know you have read this.

      As for your father, I think the words you spoke the other night that touched me the most were that you wished everyone else could have the financial freedom to even have the choices that you and your Dad have. There are so many other layers in that idea.

      The attitude from the Republican side seems to be the antithesis of the book "I'm OK, You're OK" - which translates more like

      "I'm OK, You're the Damn Problem, and I Have No Concept of How We're All Dependent On Each Other, So I'm Going To Cut You Loose To Save Myself"

      George Carlin once did a routine about "these are words that have never been said before" - and in that great radio DJ/ Infomercial voice of his he delivered

      "Do what you want to the girl, but leave me alone"

      I see Republicans in that spirit.

      They say "United We Stand" on 9/12, then they spend the rest of the year telling half of us to F**k off and die; never once relizing the irony that if we did, they'd be screwed.

      And I cried hardest with joy that you recognized the most important thing -

      Yes, the decisions are agonizing.

      BUt we're all going to face it one way or another if we or someone we love lives long enough. It was a beautiful expression of humanity to wish that we all had the chance to make whatever choice we decide to make, and that we have the freedom - and the means - to make it.

      My Dad and I got to say the words we needed to say to each other during the eight years he survived his cancer. It ended in agony for him, but it was on his terms. It was like watching a surreal version of Cool Hand Luke -

      "Well, this is the way he wants it"

      And that alone, sometimes, is how I make peace with it all.

      I wish you, and your father and your family, peace with what is at hand. From what you've shared with us, it seems that you have the perfectly human reaction that no one of us wants to go through such an ordeal from either point of view; but since we all will eventually from at least one perspective and maybe both, a country that brags about it's liberty and freedom, nevermind it's benevolence and it's charity, has a government right now that it acting in some surreal and bizarre ways.

      Peace be on you.

      I'm off to go read some Thurber.

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 01:54:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I've got my fingers crossed for you and your dad (7+ / 0-)

      I hope and pray he will awaken fully, to continue the battle he's determined to fight, not just for his life, but also with regards to HCR.

      As well as your comment, here, thank you so much for taking the time to go on TV and give us an update.  After hearing how the Tea Klux Klan misrepresented your absence under these circumstances, it gets increasingly harder for me to believe that these people aren't just plain evil.  Obama needs to realize that there is no dealing with people who have so little humanity.

      Your anecdote about Fox trying to recruit you provided me with a great deal of amusement that I sorely needed today.  It feels awkward, since IMHO, I should be here trying to provide you with some sort of amusement that you sorely need. :-)

      "In your policy, it states quite clearly that no claim YOU make will be paid." -- Monty Python

      by Rally V on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 02:23:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  There is ABSOLUTELY (7+ / 0-)

      "role modeling possible here"! Your family's struggles, while horribly painful & draining, have spurred on so much good discussion among people with actual hearts & feelings about issues that MUST be discussed. Your strength & compassion have been an inspiration!

      My parents, thankfully, have their life panel issues worked out; I actually got to see some of it when my Mom was re - admitted to the hospital last month. It's not a fun discussion, but these issues must be discussed.

      Dems, get some guts, or we'll KICK YER BUTTS!

      by CityLightsLover on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 05:55:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Olberdaddy rocks... (5+ / 0-)

      ...and so does his son.

      Excuse me while I go crack up at the notion of a big sign reading "Sorry!"

      "What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem."

      by Dechant on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 06:34:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  thank you for the update (5+ / 0-)

      please keep us in the loop whenever you can and don't stop reading to him as we would not stop praying for him. Read to him our comments and concerns and let him know that he became a symbol dad for us and a center of hope.  

      "Cherish your visions and your dreams as they are the children of your soul, the blueprints of your ultimate accomplishments." - Napoleon Hill

      by dibsa on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 08:06:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you, Keith (6+ / 0-)

      You are the classiest broadcaster on television today and a real mensch! Thank you for treating your viewers and/or fans with such respect by keeping us posted on your Dad's condition. I am praying for him as are so many others. Although I am only 47 years old and my oldest child is only 17 years old, I have spoken to them about end of life care just in case, at your urging. Hopefully they won't have to worry about that for many, many years but I want them to be as informed and comfortable with their decisions as you have been during this very difficult time.

    •  We all love you Keith! (6+ / 0-)

      Good luck with your father and family. I know he is a survivor. I bet he can't wait to talk to his son again!

      Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

      by JamesE on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 02:53:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Good to hear from you (5+ / 0-)

      And I'm sending you my best wishes and plenty of hugs.  Glad to hear you're still reading to your father. :)

      Don't have much time, as I'm sharing a very slow computer with about six people, and there is a lot to be done.  But I wanted to check in and see how you were doing... and share the sentiments of the others here.

      Take good care of yourself and your father... and thank you!

  •  Amen (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dibsa, kattdrakken

    KO is made into a Lunatic by the right wing, and the CORPORATE media just repeats what Faux News says.

    KO is the voice of the repressed liberal, the voice of reason, and when he goes on a rant we all know why.  LIKE US, HE HAS HAD ENOUGH AND WON'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.

    He also helps me put the daily horror into perspective!

  •  I like you snafubar! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snafubar

    You are honest (sigh).  Most people aren't.  The fucked up part is that they don't even realize their deception.

    Anyone who has reached adulthood and claims they have never felt that despair in the pit of their stomach is either lying or has no self awareness.  Life is not all sunshine and roses and puppies.  There are clouds and thorns and puppies become dogs that sometimes bite.

    I am not suicidal but I wouldn't complain if something else caused my demise.  Does that mean that I am suicidal but I'm lazy?  I don't know.  I just try to fill my life with things that bring me a small measure of happiness.

    My guilty pleasure is that I am a media whore.  When I find something I like I am on it.  (7 seasons of BTVS, 10 seasons SG-1)  I watch Keith because he makes me smile.  Someone told me he was a comedien.  I told them that I liked that about him.  He tells me what I need to know and helps me choke it down with a bit of fun.  Shakespeare did the same damn thing.

    So, I've subscribed to you snafubar and hope to read your previous diaries.  Keep being honest.  Empty platitudes serve no one.  Don't apoligize for who you are.  This is real.  Thank you

    Rub her feet - Lazarus Long

    by kattdrakken on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 06:34:35 AM PST

    •  Where to start - (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kattdrakken

      My father told me - in the middle of watching him drowning in his own alcohol and four packs per day of his smoke, while I could not find the courage or the purpose to have a job -

      "You're too honest"

      Hunh?

      WTF does that mean? Dad - you're the guy that taught me to be honest!

      And of course people will tell you that of course there are limits to honesty.

      I think that's the moment when my tractor became unhitched from the trailer and they haven't connected again still.

      Hey - ya think that might be part of our collective problem?

      "The truth shall set you free...

      ...but dont' be too honest".

      Thank you for your comment, and I feel you are one who might get this, given what you wrote.

      The therapists (who I'm never going back to) all tell em to be myself.

      Then of course you'll realize that being TOO much like myself will cost me every job interview I ever attend.

      So in truth, if I want ot be as honest as I feel in my heart that I should, I can't be - because in fact, that is NOT what this world wants from me.

      I believe this may have some bearing on our situation (famous line delivered by Richard Feynman at the hearings for the Space Shuttle Challenger hearings)

      I appreciate your comment a great deal. It helps.

      Oh, and my girlfriend keeps iinsisting that I sit down and watch all seven seasons of Buffy, and I tell her I deal in realism, not fantasy. (I'm too busy watching Olbermann and Maddow and blogging to deal with the occult and the ethereal) are you trying to tell me to listen to her?

      :)  

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 07:46:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sometimes, it's nice to escape... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snafubar

        It's what works for me.  Joss Whedon is bloody brilliant.  You do what works for you.

        I am obsessed with Olbermann.  My housemates think I'm crazy.  That didn't stop one of them from getting me his books (I love my housemates).  I am a total fangirl.  He drew me to this diary with his comment.  Download the podcast, watch live at 8pm then Rachel then back to Keith.  I heard him read Thurber in the wee small hours of the morning but it was incorperated into a wierd cafe (work as a waitress) dream.  Him sitting in a booth, taking off his glasses and me pissed because people aren't paying attention.

        Honesty can be rough.  In here...go for it.  Fuck them that can't take it.  What you do in your life outside DKos is harder.  I can't advise you there.  Even if I thought I had some pearl of wisdom that would just make your life peachy with a side of keen it's not my fucking place to do so.  I may have a tidbit or two but only if you ask.  I'm not pushing my philosophy on anyone unwanted.  That would make me no better than the bastards you spoke of above.

        All my best snafubar.  I'll keep an eye out or you. ;)

        Rub her feet - Lazarus Long

        by kattdrakken on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 08:26:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You sound like someone I'd have a lot in common (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kattdrakken

          with.

          I'm largely burned out on this place; too much abject animosity. I did a lot of diaries in the last year and a half or so, but I ran into a few buzzsaws that cut too close to the bone and I realized I'm strung to tight and care to much to be back on the playground with the second graders.

          You can track back through my stuff if you wish, but I am like Olbermann now in my own "special comments" - they have to be organic and spontaneous.

          I'm largely burned out and discouraged, so I find that the less i say the less I open myself up to being assailed further.

          Thanks for your comment. Your words are wise - in that there are no real demands, suggestions, or correction in them.

          That alone shows how much you really understand.

          Thanks.

          So I should let the girlfriend chain me to the chair and make me watch Buffy for two weeks?

          George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

          by snafubar on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 09:31:11 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Only if you can keep an open mind:) (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            snafubar

            They start out in high school and Joss knew he had a younger audience.  He's all about the metaphor but the dialogue is witty.  Some of it is campy but I love it.  There is a reason why film students study BTVS.  He is clever with the camera.  This is a crap review.  I'm not sure that I would convince myself to watch right now, I feel so fried.

            Give it a chance.  It's not going to hurt you.  I don't think it's going to hurt you.

            I haven't been on Dkos for long so I'm still riding the cloud..My fuck 'em comment is based on the fact that you should be able to relate what's going on with you and not get lectured about it.  This diary was most personal in nature.  You have your stuff, I have my stuff(also a child of an alcoholic), everyone has their stuff.  If something hits me close to home I'm guessing I need to look at me, not you.  Hey...That's what they ment when they said 'Live and Let Live'...go figure.

            Rub her feet - Lazarus Long

            by kattdrakken on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 10:11:33 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  BTW.. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              snafubar

              If you get to season six...you get to watch the musical.  Even my gay roomate who hates musicals watches the Buffy musical.

              And if you do watch, you gal will be eternally in my debt...for however long that is...that could be kinda cool.  ;)

              Rub her feet - Lazarus Long

              by kattdrakken on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 10:45:10 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  If I get to season six then the frontal lobotomy (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kattdrakken

                everone has been suggesting I get might be moot.

                :)

                I'll try.

                George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

                by snafubar on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 01:00:10 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'll watch with you... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  snafubar

                  it's going to be just fine.  I just put in Welcome to the Hellmouth.  You know how when you really like something and you want other people to like it with you, but then you get insecure that maybe it wasn't as cool as you remembered it?  Now that I'm watching it really is that cool.  (The part of kattdrakken will be played by josswhedonfangirl666) :)

                  On the Live and Let Live front.  If everyone could do that we'd be much better off.  I was going to go off about the right deciding they need to be mommy and daddy to the rest of us.  I don't have the energy. If they focus on what they percieve as our devience they don't have to focus on their own.  I'm not sure if this paragraph makes any sense.  Don't care.

                   

                  Rub her feet - Lazarus Long

                  by kattdrakken on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 03:33:02 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Just remember what George Carlin said about "live (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kattdrakken

              and let live"

              "Live and let live - that's always been the motto in my family.

              Anyone who can't go along with that, take 'em outside and shoot the motherfucker"

              George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

              by snafubar on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 12:59:01 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  So...I was thinking... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                snafubar

                another bit on Live and Let Live.

                I'm female, pro-choice, against capitol punishment, pro gay marrige, in favor of HCR.  Just a few views to give you a sense of where I'm coming from.  One of the main reasons why I'm pro choice is that termination of a fetus is a medical procedure.  Congress is not qualified to step in and make medical decisions about my body.

                I would be furious with you if you were to dispute this.  It is MY body.  So..who the fuck am I to tell you what to do with yours.  I voted for the Death with Dignity Act when I lived in Oregon, twice.  It allows for individuals who are terminally ill to have a conversation with their doctor about ending their lives with the assistance of a doctor.  The reason I had to vote twice was because 'they' didn't think that e realized what we were voting for.

                Rub her feet - Lazarus Long

                by kattdrakken on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 05:04:06 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I hope you realize I'm thoroughly in your (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  kattdrakken

                  camp.

                  My views on abortion go far beyond the decision being  yours because it's your body; if we play the game that a person is not entitled to make the decision on what to do with a pregnancy, it's not a legal or logical stretch to say that the government (or the church that's driving it) should also have a say about whether and how a person gets pregnant in the first place.

                  I cause the most damage when I figuratively slam anti-abortionists up against a rhetorical wall about their opposition to sex education (and of the more fanatical of them) their opposition to birth control. They want it both ways.

                  And i am waiting for my first intellectually honest Christian who has taken these positions to therefore admt that they actually believe that freedom of choice in controvention to Biblical or church teachings is acceptable to them.

                  At which point, when they get cornered, it's time to admit that although they're ready to bomb a country on the other side of the world if it becomes a theocracy deciated to the "wrong" religion that they are actually advocating and support a de facto theocracy here in the USA.

                  What we're watching right now in this country is people who brag about "freedom" and "liberty" who are forcing an ultimatum that any perspectives other than their own are not tolerated - which means they in practice do not support genuine freedom - for freedom to only be a Christian in their own view is not freedom at all.

                  And they never see the irony that such rigidity is precisely why this country was founded in the first place - to escape the state telling the citizens what to think and why.

                  ANd it only took the most fanatical of them 250 years to turn the entire purpose of this country inside out.

                  So if you read my tagline, George Orwell is not the only one turning over in his grave; I imagine most of hte signers of the Constitution are desperately trying to dig their way to the surface to scream "Stop" before everything they fought for has been, in practice, pissed on and set on fire.

                  Ok. That ought to be a place ot start. :)

                  George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

                  by snafubar on Thu Mar 04, 2010 at 06:08:01 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I <3 your sig line. n/t (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    snafubar

                    Rub her feet - Lazarus Long

                    by kattdrakken on Fri Mar 05, 2010 at 04:27:42 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I get a lot of comments on it; afaik it's my (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      kattdrakken

                      original.

                      Lately I've become so morose because everyone seems so obsessed with "fixing" me - like if someohow I stopped saying I've had enough of this bullshit that the place would suddenly be overwhelmed with technocolor flowers, chocolate on tap, no one would ever get fat, and we'd all finally have pursued our happiness to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbows pointing in every direction.

                      There's that old saying,

                      "The squeaky wheel gets the grease"

                      I believe in 2010 we have now adopted official procedures that all wheels that squeak at all (even if someone deliberately withheld the grease in the bearings and bent the fucking thing just for spite) shall be removed and discarded - and as long as everyone keeps their head turned "forward" and never notices all the wheels we've forsaken, it's all good.

                      Orwell gave us a warning that groupthink was catastrophic, and yet humankind - particularly and especially the freedom-loving, liberty-obsessed, Greatest Country In The World (TM) is so blindly cemented in our groupthink and doublespeak that our founders are wondering why they bothered to give us freedom to think for our selves - most of us can't be bothered with the responsibility.

                      And so it goes (frequent expression of another notorious atheist, Kurt Vonnegut)

                      OK, your turn - your sig line is too enigmatic for we non-readers to have a grasp on. Care to enlighten me? (Maybe you should email me and I'll tell you the really funny part)

                      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

                      by snafubar on Sat Mar 06, 2010 at 02:41:01 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  My favorite author is Robert A Heinlein. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        snafubar

                        He had a character named Lazarus Long who showed up in many of his books.  Heinlein wrote Science Fiction but a lot of it is very day after tomorrow-esque.  You should read Time Enough For Love.  It might make you angry but I think you will get past that.  I don't want to spoil it.

                        Lazarus has many quotes and I wanted a quick sig line.  With the exception of the extreamly ticklish, who wouldn't want their feet rubbed?  I don't remember the exact context but it didn't feel like I needed it.

                        Here is a good one that echos what Keith said, "There is no conclusive evidence of life after death.  But there is no evidence of any sort against it.  Soon enough you will know.  So why fret about it?" How about this one, "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh."  One of my favorites, "Sex should be friendly.  Otherwise stick to mechanical toys; it's more sanitary."  All words of wisdom.

                        Heinlein was a brilliant man.  Started out in the Navy and was given an honerable medical discharge when he contracted TB.  He started writing to pay off his mortgage and was never able to shake the habit.  His books are proof thay we are all far more complex than we realize.

                        That was all a bit fangirl.  All those paragraphs up there.  RAH died in 1988 at the age of 80 and it was far too soon.  He wrote right up til the end.  If you emailed me you address I would mail you a copy of the book.  I think everyone should read something by him.

                        Rub her feet - Lazarus Long

                        by kattdrakken on Sat Mar 06, 2010 at 08:26:11 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

    •  BTW - I think most people DO realize their (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kattdrakken

      duplicity and lack of honesty. They simply rationalize it by believing that everyone else is lying to them too and that this is just how the game is played, so be it.

      And they never, ever, have the insight to figure out that someoen else is paying attention to their duplicity, and similarly using it as their own excuse to perpetuate the problem.

      And so it goes.

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 09:36:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It hits home for me, too. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snafubar, kattdrakken

    Perhaps not as close to home -- one generation removed -- but my grandfather's last summer was one of suffering under botched cancer treatments.

    At least in Germany he was covered.

    So too was my grandmother, who had a stroke and went into a coma. I'm proud to say that my aunt had the right to say, "You know what? Let's not take her off life support yet." And my grandmother's doctors listened.

    All this in a socialised-medicine situation.

    Why do we not have that here?

    (p.s. Oma survived. Six and a half years later, it looks like we'll have her for some time yet.)

    "What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem."

    by Dechant on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 06:43:35 AM PST

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