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McClatchy has the full version of the video released Monday by WikiLeaks. The full video is nearly 40 minutes long, and as the McClatchy blogger notes, is "disturbing, both for the glee the American pilots seem to take in the bloodshed and for what seems to be an unnecesssary targeting of people who seem to pose no threat."

U.S. Central Command has said that the official copy of the video may not be retrievable and they don't know where it is, despite communication Reuters received from the Pentagon in 2007, saying that the footage was "under the congizance of the U.S. Central Command." It seems hard to believe that the video of this event--which was investigated at the brigade level and is at the center of such a controversial incident involving a media concern like Reuters--has just gone missing.

As of yet, however, whether or not Centcom finds its copy of the video and comments on the issue seems moot. Because it has "no current plans" to reopen an investigation, despite the questions it raises even for Centcom attorneys.

Some international law and human rights experts who have watched the video of the incident say the Apache helicopter crew in the footage may have acted illegally.

Lawyers at Central Command have been reviewing the classified video, made public on Monday by a group that promotes leaking to fight government and corporate corruption, two U.S. military officials said on condition of anonymity.

"We're looking at a reinvestigation because of a question of the rules of engagement. Were all the actions that are depicted on that video in parallel with the rules of engagement in effect at the time?" one of the officials said.

But Rear Admiral Hal Pittman, director of communications at Central Command, which oversees the war in Iraq, said in a statement to Reuters: "Central Command has no current plans to reinvestigate or review this combat action."

Other officials said Central Command was seeking to play down its role in determining whether to reopen the case because the unit involved was no longer based in Iraq, shifting the onus to Army and Pentagon leaders to make the decision.

Ah, the military bureaucracy way--pass the buck up the chain of command. Meanwhile, Reuter's editor-in-chief David Schlesinger has said that he "would welcome a thorough new investigation. Reuters from the start has called for transparency and an objective inquiry so that all can learn lessons from this tragedy." According to Gawker, Schlesinger spiked a story by a Reuters reporter that contained claims from human rights and international law experts that the actions revealed in the video might have been war crimes, though a Reuter's spokesperson denies the claim.

Whether this story goes further will likely depend on how hard Reuters continues to push to have a new investigation. It seems pretty clear that the military hopes to ride this out without further investigation and without providing a substantive response.  

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:06 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Oh what a lovely war. (6+ / 0-)

    Riddled my minivan.

    the intelligence community is no longer geared towards telling the president what they think the president wants to hear

    by Salo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:09:58 PM PDT

    •  Just Pretend.. It's all ok (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mnemosyne, chuckvw, Heartcutter

      Ummmn

      it seems hard to believe that the video of this event--which was investigated at the brigade level and is at the center of such a controversial incident involving a media concern like Reuters--has just gone missing

      Yeah

    •  THIS (0+ / 0-)

      is why my sig line is what it is..

      America likes to put up a nice, clean image of itself. The "John Wayne, white-hat" era of our collective self image. Most of us proudly wear our team colors and happily wave the flag.

      As a global power, we play to win, and that includes playing dirty politics, leveraging our high tech advantage and utilizing information control on our own and other populations.

      Wars are no longer on big fields against soldiers in distinct uniforms. Its HARD to know who is an enemy at range. Given today's technology and our collective desire to minimize our own casualties, we fight at long (and longer) range whenever we can. Its just good tactics.

      Unfortunately, when tied in to our hyper-realistic video game generation of soldiers, it makes the normal (required) de-personization of the adversary even more fraught with danger.

      Its dirty. Its disgusting. Lets finish our goals and get the frack out.

      I have confidence that the President will take the long view and do whats best for America's long term interests. But I'd really like to feel better about that white hat thing. It looks pretty gray from where I sit.

      If God is just, I tremble for my country. - Thomas Jefferson

      by MightyMoose on Fri Apr 09, 2010 at 07:46:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I know one thing: (20+ / 0-)

    I'm donating to WikiLeaks. It's a really important service.

    "As long as I think it might make [homophobic 'baggers] happy, I can never retire." - Barney Frank

    by indiemcemopants on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:10:10 PM PDT

  •  The full version has been released for some time (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mnemosyne, Phil S 33, dancewater, geomoo

    I believe its release coincided with the 17-minute version. Nonetheless it's important that people watch it.

    •  not strong enough (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chuckvw, geomoo

      but I listened to snippets tonight as they were broadcast on radio. Even then, I yelled at the radio in rage against the stupidity and callousness and illegality of it all.

      When it got to the part about how they fired on the van trying to rescue the wounded, all I could think of was how much American outrage there has been, in reality and in movies, about the bad guys shooting at ambulances. This was exactly the same thing.

      As someone says downthread, goddamnGeorgeBush to the deepest, farthest circle of everlasting hell.

      If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.--A Boston cabbie, to Gloria Steinem, in the 1970s

      by Mnemosyne on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:48:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Accountability (12+ / 0-)

    There is a slim chance an investigation will be reopened because two of the people killed were Reuters employees. If Reuters did not have employees involved, I think there would be zero chance.

    There is little to no chance of an investigation being reopened over the reasons why the U.S. military was put in this situation in Iraq in the first place.

    No investigations, no accountability, no apologies.

    The rulers of America can do what they want, when they want.

  •  By all means pass it up the chain of command. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, ratmach

    The pressure to do something is only going to grow as this happens, not shrink. Better that Gates and Obama have to answer these questions, than some lower level promise to investigate, then bury the thing.

    "Tell me why are we -- so blind to see
    That the ones we hurt -- are you and me"
    - Coolio, Gangster's Paradise

    by davewill on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:12:32 PM PDT

  •  An all around tragedy (0+ / 0-)
    •  I dunno that “tragedy” is the word. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chuckvw, Heartcutter, 417els, geomoo, ratmach

      Kinda implies that it was either inevitable or accidental. It's hard to place cold-blooded murder in a category with Romeo & Juliet.

      “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

      by Jyrinx on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:14:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well how about M--That Scottish Play, then? n/t (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        evilstorm, Jyrinx

        If it's
        Not your body
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        AND it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:30:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Going back to the Greeks, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jyrinx

        tragedy was associated with reaching a state of ecstasis, which meant temporarily transcending one's ego view.  The drama of tragedy was contrived to produce empathic suffering in the audience.  In some cases, the suffering was of recent bitter enemies of the Greeks, bringing the audience to see events through the eyes of the other.

        In this oparticular circumstance, tragedy, imho, would entail identifying with the utter loss of humanity involved in gleefully killing helpless people.  The murders themselves are simply sordid crimes.

        War is brutal, dehumanizing, and unpredictable. It is not a viable instrument of policy.

        by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:03:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Why would they be surprised at the amount of glee (7+ / 0-)

    from the pilots?  All the military centers I hear about on the radio encourage people to stop by and play video games and have snacks.  Isn't war just another video game?

    Shove some healthcare down our throats, please!

    by Ann T Bush on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:14:31 PM PDT

  •  Just sick about this. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ImpeachKingBushII, dadadata
    So disappointed in our military. No veretan I know would ever have done this.

    Do I dare disturb the universe?

    by Greek Goddess on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:14:47 PM PDT

    •  it happens every day in war zones (5+ / 0-)

      you are only deluding yourself if you think otherwise.... the point of our military is to kill people and break their shit.

      It is the fault of the American people and American politicians for sending them some place where the people they kill are not our enemies and the shit they break belongs to people who never hurt us.

      This exact same thing -- AND WORSE -- is happening nearly every day in Afghanistan.

      War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women. - Chris Hedges

      by dancewater on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:08:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  President Karzai threatened to join theTaliban.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Greek Goddess

        ...What does he know that our President, our Congress, our military, and our Press aren't telling us-or are refusing to tell us? Besides the whole truth, that is, that we have been slaughtering the Afghan people just like we did to the Iraqis. Is the gwot a subterfuge for our real mission: the seizure of the Eurasian Corridor-the overland oil routes to the Caucasus? A million google links say so.

        "Peace is the protector of genius. War is the mortal enemy of both peace and genius."

        by ImpeachKingBushII on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:35:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not sure a second coat of whitewash (5+ / 0-)

    will do any good.

    And there is more of this stuff to come...

    www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

    by chuckvw on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:15:49 PM PDT

  •  what does journalistic 'spiking' mean ? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuckvw, pontechango, dadadata
  •  War is brutal (7+ / 0-)

    and it brutalizes many participants. Human life becomes worth less, or even worthless.

    Which is part of why the groundless Iraq War is a tragedy so many times over - not just for those killed and wounded, but for those whose lives have been wrecked in a multitude of different ways.

    This is not a sig-line.

    by Joffan on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:21:40 PM PDT

  •  When I see look at this picture (14+ / 0-)

     title=

    As a photographer myself, I know that grin - I see a proud photographer. One of Iraq's best.

    Here's to Namir and all the victims of this terrible, wasteful, unnecessary  war - for every story like this there are thousands more.

    I hold one person responsible for all of this:

    George W. Bush. May he burn in hell.

    "I'm looking forward," he told the troops, "to returning to Afghanistan many times in the years to come." Obama March 2010

    by Wamsutta on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:21:46 PM PDT

    •  Have some been intentionally targeted? (7+ / 0-)

      The numbers are high.  The motivation to avoid the "public relations" problems of Vietnam strong.

      Here's a report from the Committee to Protect Journalists:

      CPJ considers a journalist to be killed on duty if the person died as a result of a hostile action--such as reprisal for his or her work, or crossfire while carrying out a dangerous assignment.

      By Circumstance:
      Murder: 89
      • Crossfire or other acts of war: 50

      Responsibility:
      • Insurgent/other armed group action: 105 (Includes crossfire, suicide bombings, and murders.)
      • U.S. fire: 16 (CPJ has not found evidence to conclude that U.S. troops targeted journalists in these cases. While the cases are classified as crossfire, CPJ continues to investigate.)
      • Iraqi armed forces, during U.S. invasion: 3 (All are crossfire or acts of war.)
      • Iraqi armed forces, post-U.S. invasion: 1 (Crossfire)
      • Source unconfirmed: 14
      snip

      Highest death tolls among news organization:
      • Iraq Media Network (includes Al-Iraqiya, its affiliates, and Sabah newspaper): 14
      • Baghdad TV: 7
      • Al-Arabiya: 6
      • Al-Shaabiya: 5
      • Reuters: 5
      • Kurdistan TV: 4
      • Al-Baghdadia 2

      War is brutal, dehumanizing, and unpredictable. It is not a viable instrument of policy.

      by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:34:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I wonder how Obama's most hardcore loyalists... (5+ / 0-)

      ... can explain this:

      After two years of traveling around the country and criticizing President Bush, President-elect Barack Obama said Friday that he "always thought [Bush] was a good guy."

      ....

      "I mean, I think personally he is a good man who loves his family and loves his country," Obama said in an exclusive interview with CNN's John King.

      link

      Is this the same George W. Bush the rest of us are talking about? The bloodthirsty, mass-murdering, lying, arrogant, self-centered war criminal? Two possibilities here: Either Obama is lying through his teeth and just playing politics, or else he really believes what he's saying. If the latter, then that says something NOT SO GOOD about Barack Obama.

      "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

      by ratmach on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:55:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yes, and yes it does. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ratmach

        War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women. - Chris Hedges

        by dancewater on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:10:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Joseph Goebbels and Hermann Goering (0+ / 0-)

        were said to be wonderfully polite, engaging men at social events.  They had families and were loving Dads, too.  One's personal likeability has absolutely zero to do with whether or not you make good, humane policy.  The ubiquitous confusion about this is what got GWB elected, and what now makes Sarah Palin such an attractive candidate for a certain ignorant segment of America.  But cut Obama some slack.  He isn't saying that he approved of everything Bush did.

        The past is never dead. It's not even past. - William Faulkner

        by Jimbo47 on Fri Apr 09, 2010 at 06:39:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ummm... you make a good point (0+ / 0-)

          But in a way, you make my point too. Cut Obama some slack?... well, since Goebells and Goering were, as you said, nice friendly family guys in private, can you imagine Obama saying THEY were "good guys"?

          "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

          by ratmach on Fri Apr 09, 2010 at 11:29:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Saying that today? Of course not. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ratmach

            But--to carry this to its logical extreme--if Obama were German, and it was 1946?  It's an absurd amount of supposition, but in that cultural context and time, yeah, he might very well say something like that.  

            I'm certainly not defending Bush or condoning anything he did, but Obama obviously has got to worry about sounding Presidential, being diplomatic, etc.  I do think he is being politically adroit here.  But by all accounts GWB is a famously affable dude.  I know, it's hard to wrap one's mind around it, but that's the whole thing about political power, the power to send armies overseas, to make people live or die with your orders--I think people who wield that kind of power are in the main completely disconnected from what they are actually doing.  So, there you have it--affable nice dude and one of the worst, most destructive and irresponsible Presidents in the history of our country, all at the same time.

            Kinda makes you sick, doesn't it?

            The past is never dead. It's not even past. - William Faulkner

            by Jimbo47 on Fri Apr 09, 2010 at 04:35:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So you think maybe my first option... (0+ / 0-)

              ... for why Obama would say that, I mean, that he's "just playing politics", is what's going on? If I'm understanding you correctly, then I think (HOPE) you're right. I'd MUCH rather believe that Obama is doing that, than to think he honestly believes Bush is "a good guy" (regardless of how he acts in private, to his family and friends, etc).

              "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

              by ratmach on Fri Apr 09, 2010 at 11:14:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ratmach

                Obama's default mode is diplomatic and low key.  He is also a pretty shrewd leader, and he knows it would be pointless to call out Bush, even if he didn't personally like him.  One must always read between the lines in a politician's public statements.

                More importantly, though, I do wish Obama would allow some investigations to go forward on the misbehavior of the previous administration.  His "let's look forward, not backward" routine is depressing to those of us who want to shed some light on the intentional lawbreaking of Bush and Cheney.  Unfortunately, the whole thing would be so politically volatile that I don't believe anyone will ever be held to account.  

                In this country, Presidents past and present, at least in terms of foreign policy and war, are now accountable to absolutely no one.  No matter how many people die.  Sad.  But true.

                The past is never dead. It's not even past. - William Faulkner

                by Jimbo47 on Sat Apr 10, 2010 at 06:14:10 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  No mention of a Commander-in-Chief in a story (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mogolori, ratmach

    like this? Seems it would be appropriate. Even if a "no comment."

    Support good reform not a political party blindly.

    by Eposter on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:22:31 PM PDT

  •  Some interesting points (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dancewater

    This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

    by Snud on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:23:07 PM PDT

  •  This makes me think of Charlie Wilson's War, (7+ / 0-)

    that propaganda film that got so many things wrong.  In that film Soviet helicopter pilots were shown casually, gleefully, or sportingly killing defenseless villagers.  In the delusion of war, most audiences understand that this is the evil of the enemy, and evil we would never approach.  Of course the only sensible thing to do is bring our righteous might to bear in stopping the evil-doers.  This is the myth of war.  Try telling Americans that, when it come to war, we are no different than those Soviet pilots.

    War is brutal, dehumanizing, an unpredictable.  It is not a viable instrument of policy.

    Legal chicanery and pitch darkness were the banker's stoutest allies. -1939

    by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:24:38 PM PDT

    •  Ooh! I like that last sentence. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      geomoo

      [War] is not a viable instrument of policy.

      “War is not the answer” is weak to the inevitable rebuttal “What about WWII?” The truth is that fighting only solves the war. If winning wars were enough to ensure peace, there wouldn't have been a WWII. (The fact that it was a sequel is a pretty strong hint.)

      So yeah. If some asshole is invading lots of countries, going and sending people to fight off their soldiers is a viable solution to that problem. But you put it well — it is in no way an instrument of policy.

      “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

      by Jyrinx on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:29:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Since I've found myself saying that several times (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DelicateMonster, Jyrinx

        over the last few days, I just made it my sig line.  H/t to the clear-headed Bacevich.

        War is brutal, dehumanizing, and unpredictable. It is not a viable instrument of policy.

        by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:36:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you haven't yet (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          geomoo

          check out Chris Hedges 'War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning'

          A brilliant and lyric denunciation of war as a mere 'policy option'...

          Based on you sig line alone, I think you'll like it.

          90% tax on everyone earning a million or more: a simple solution to funding Healthcare Reform, extending Social Security benefits and other budgetary concerns.

          by DelicateMonster on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:03:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Will do. Thanks. nt (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DelicateMonster

            War is brutal, dehumanizing, and unpredictable. It is not a viable instrument of policy.

            by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:04:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Wow. A little sobbing. Powerful piece. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DelicateMonster

            I spent much of this afternoon on this topic, in Turkana's diary, attempting to dispel the notion that the Civil War was a just and righteous war, a clean and viable way of accomplishing a clear-cut and worthwhile goal.  Here is one comment I wrote there:

            Why they thought they were fighting:

            The Crusades:  regain control of the Holy Land wherein our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was born.

            Hundred Years War at Reims:  God told Joan of Arc to recover her homeland from the English.

            Crimean War:  determine control of the Holy Land and protect Orthodox Christians there.

            WWI:  End all wars.

            Vietnam War:  save Vietnam from tyranny under God-less communism.

            Etc. ad nauseum.

            War is brutal, dehumanizing, and unpredictable. It is not a viable instrument of policy.

            by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:42:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  WW2 is a false equivalency... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chuckvw, Salo, Jyrinx

        ...Iraq never attacked us. Japan did. Hitler then immediately declared war against America. Bush lied us into war with Iraq. No WMDs. No link to 9/11. No link to OBL. Pearl Harbor is an historical FACT. Bush told over 935 well-doc'd lies for a false mission to keep us there. He is responsible for over 1.4 million Iraqi deaths and 4400 American service members, creating over 4 million Iraqi refugees, widows and orphans. Genocide is an international war crime and crime against humanity. Self-defense is a recognized right under Article 51 of the UN Charter and the US Constitution. Self-defense is not a crime. Bush hung Saddam for slaughtering tens of thousands of Iraqis, yet Saddam's crimes against the Iraqi people pale by comparison. Saddam is in his grave for his crimes. Bush still breathes the air of free men.

        "Peace is the protector of genius. War is the mortal enemy of both peace and genius."

        by ImpeachKingBushII on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:49:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Have you read the book? Not like Sorkin's script. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      geomoo

      Policy is brutal, dehumanizing, and unpredictable.  It is not a viable instrument of war(sic).

      "...calling for a 5" deck gun is not parody. Not by a long shot." (gnaborretni)

      by annieli on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:38:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  exactly and how can anyone expect a soldier (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      417els, geomoo, sneakers563

      to be otherwise? We, as a society, ask other members to undergo rigorous training in organized killing and then send them off to a tense, dangerous, life-threatening environment, and then we are surprised when our fellow citizens become cold-hearted killers? That's what happens. Certainly some people handle combat on a psychological level differently than others, but to expect that soldiers are going to show remorse in the heat of battle doesn't seem realistic. What do people think that soldiers say to each other when they are fighting? "Oh my god, Joe, I think we killed those guys! I feel terrible." This is where PTSD comes from. The remorse and guilt has to be suppressed for the sake of survival.

      Without question there were soldiers in WWII who "gleefully" shot and killed German and Japanese soldiers. There were soldiers who thought of the Japanese and Germans as sub or inhuman. Dehumanizing the enemy is part and parcel to warfare. And, as horrible as it is, so is the murder of innocents.

      I say don't look upon our fellow citizens we asked to become combat soldiers as the "inhuman" ones. They are doing what they were asked to do and they are going to pay a heavy psychological and physical price for doing so. The "inhuman" ones are those unthinking drones in a self-absorbed society that views war as some sort of unpleasant but ultimately necessary evil to support their uncaring, unthinking banal existence of tv sitcoms, fast food and mall shopping.

      •  You make me think of the heartbreaking poignancy (0+ / 0-)

        of J.D. Salinger's short story For Esme with Love and Squalor.  The story is a nearly perfect exemplification of what you are saying.

        We still must hold soldiers to standards of conduct, however.  And it doesn't help matters that the country has decided to treat all soldiers as morally superior heroes.  They are believing the hype, and that is unhealthy.

        War is brutal, dehumanizing, and unpredictable. It is not a viable instrument of policy.

        by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:30:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The Army is ALWAYS lying (5+ / 0-)

    a bunch of fucking liars.

    U.S. Central Command has said that the official copy of the video may not be retrievable and they don't know where it is, despite communication Reuters received from the Pentagon in 2007, saying that the footage was "under the congizance of the U.S. Central Command."

    Oh please.

    I believe we see the video all over the fucking place.

    Too bad nothing at all will be done about this.

    Torture good, Healthcare bad, Marijuana evil.
    Doc in the Twitterverse

    by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:31:50 PM PDT

  •  why not a wrongful death (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuckvw

    lawsuit by Reuters against the US Army? The plaintiffs can subpoena the video and anything else connected with the "investigation".

    Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

    by alizard on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:32:27 PM PDT

  •  received the full version in my email... (4+ / 0-)

    ...yesterday afternoon from Greenwald via Alternet.
    Watched it twice looking for the weapons the pilots said they saw. Didn't see any "armed insurgents", just unarmed civilians, unless one counts a camera as a weapon. It made me so nauseous, I couldn't eat or sleep all night. Especially the part where the 2 children in the minivan that tried to recover the bodies got shot-up. I'm still stunned and in shock.

    No wonder why Bush banned our msm from taking the before, during and after pictures of his war criminal aggressive war of wanton slaughter against Iraq. If Congress doesn't fully investigate this, I am forced to conclude they are nothing short of complicit co-conspirators with Obama to obstruct the justice Bush and his regime deserves in the worst way.

    "Peace is the protector of genius. War is the mortal enemy of both peace and genius."

    by ImpeachKingBushII on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:32:28 PM PDT

    •  Granada was the trial run for media-free war, (3+ / 0-)

      the first of the baby steps to lead us back to our imperialist pre-Vietnam ways.  I still wonder what happened on that defenseless little island that we used as a training exercise.

      Did you see Ranger995's excellent diary about this?

      War is brutal, dehumanizing, and unpredictable. It is not a viable instrument of policy.

      by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:39:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What video are you watching?? (0+ / 0-)

      the cameras only look like cameras to us because we're sitting at a nice big monitor on a computer that is NOT flying in circles in a noisy, vibrating helicopter while our buddies on the ground are getting shot at. Also, we KNOW they were cameras, just like we KNOW there were kids in the van, kids you can't see on the video.

      That's not even mentioning the guys around the journalists that DO have guns and are walking towards our guys on the ground. If you don't believe they are guns, then you are fooling yourself. If I was the gunner I sure as hell would have taken the shot.

      Was it a tragedy?  Of Course. The journalists involved knew their job was risky, especially when they hang out near insurgents to take pictures of them.

      As others have pointed out, the real blame is on the ones who sent our soldiers there in first place and stranded them in a hostile city populated by people that saw them as invaders.

      •  I watched this one twice... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        truong son traveler

        ...I decided not to post it here on Daily Kos, but be forewarned:

        WARNING: THIS VIDEO IS EXTREMELY DISTURBING. DO NOT OPEN THIS IF PREMEDITATED MURDER OFFENDS YOU. IT CONTAINS GRAPHIC EVIDENCE OF WAR CRIMES:

        During my extensive training in the US Army as an armor crewman on M-60A1 tanks, one of the very first things I learned was target identification, and how to distinguish between armed military and unarmed civilian targets. But you don't have to be a combat-trained observer-or a former police officer like me. Even the most casual observer can see these people were unarmed.

        This snipet from Timesonline.co.uk:

        "The voice betrays the adrenalin of combat, but the words are clearly audible over the static. "Let me engage," the gunner demands, "can I shoot?"

        A ground controller asks: "Picking up the wounded?" Seconds later the gunner asks again: "Come on, let us shoot."

        Permission is granted and a dust cloud envelopes a van and several Iraqis picking up bodies from a Baghdad square. Only afterwards do the crew of the American helicopter gunship realise that two children, now gravely wounded, are in the van. "Well," one says, "it’s their fault for bringing kids into a battle."

        Read the entire article at this one of several source-links I have here:
        http://www.timesonline.co.uk/...

        "Peace is the protector of genius. War is the mortal enemy of both peace and genius."

        by ImpeachKingBushII on Fri Apr 09, 2010 at 07:30:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Reuters knew about the video since 2007? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuckvw, ImpeachKingBushII, geomoo

    What happened to make them stay quiet? Did they leak it to Wikileaks?

    News & views about the Obama Administration the 2012 Conventions & the '10 & '12 elections at DemConWatc

    by Oreo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:39:12 PM PDT

    •  They knew about it but they didn't have it. (5+ / 0-)

      In fact they've been fighting it out in FOIA court the whole time. (Which makes it particularly galling that the military claims to have misplaced it — they're really that casual with materials that are subjects of ongoing FOIA litigation?!)

      “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

      by Jyrinx on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:41:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Jrinx is right about the FOIA but... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chuckvw, truong son traveler

      ...Reuters had to find/hire encryption experts to decrypt the video who were willing to put their necks(and careers) on the chopping block. All of these things take time and money. Plus, we don't know to what extent these people were threatened, (if at all) with retaliation if they helped in any way. Our government is powerful and dissent in a time of war, all throughout our history is often treated as treason, even when we are caught red-handed and are dead wrong. But blind faith in poor leadership is not patriotism. The truth is often the first casualty of war. And then we have the constant specter of the "good germans" among us, who say, "One country, one President, one people, right or wrong. America: love it or leave it".

      "Peace is the protector of genius. War is the mortal enemy of both peace and genius."

      by ImpeachKingBushII on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:11:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Praise the lord and pass the ammunition (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuckvw, Jyrinx

    and we'll all be free!

    (cough)

    "History is a tragedy, not a melodrama." - I.F.Stone

    by bigchin on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:41:00 PM PDT

  •  This is a war (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    magurakurin, dancewater, sneakers563

    And you know, we send soldiers in there to engage the enemy. So no, I don't think there is evidence of the pilots are guncrew acting irresponsibly at all - they got clearance to engage, and it seemed like the people on the ground posed a legitimate threat (at least that's how I think when someone points an RPG launcher at me!)
      The fault of all this lies with the ones who started the war, not the ones who are there. So I agree with the sentiment that GWB should rot in Hades. I do not agree that we should look for reasons to investigate warfighters doing there job, just beause someone got a video of the unfortunate death of a reporter who, honestly, willingly undertakes a hazard walking around in enemy country

    Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life." -Steve Jobs

    by MichiganChet on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 07:46:49 PM PDT

    •  Please read Ranger995's diary (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mojada

      if you haven't already, for about as balanced as view as one can get.  Yes, this is war.  And yes, we should expect our soldiers to become dehumanized.  But their are still rules of engagement and responsibilities that appear not to have been met.  Anyway, I don't want to argue with you.  This diary, to me, is the definitive version of the pov you advocate.

      War is brutal, dehumanizing, and unpredictable. It is not a viable instrument of policy.

      by geomoo on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:13:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you for the referral (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        geomoo

        I guess, as you indicated, that the diary says it for me. Especially as I too am a vet, with progressive tendencies, which is why I am here.
        Notice I did not say that the video should have been suppressed. I believe in enquiry and the truth, at least insofar as we can see it.
        I think the point of a site is we post our thoughts and can diagree without lapsing into teabagging invective or all-caps e-Shouting

        Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life." -Steve Jobs

        by MichiganChet on Fri Apr 09, 2010 at 06:40:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  fault also lies.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      truong son traveler

      with those who continue these wars......

      War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women. - Chris Hedges

      by dancewater on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:57:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I don't get it. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    truong son traveler

    All The Money in the World,

    and the military "can't find the video."

    Don't they have enough to pay someone to look at the version the entire world can see, and say, "no, you twits, it wasn't shot in the Arizona desert like the Lunar Landing..."

    You know, experts.

  •  this event is not unusual (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ImpeachKingBushII, geomoo, mojada

    and neither is the hellfire missiles into the apartment building in the longer version.

    This is simply WHAT WAR IS.

    And the fact that it is the US that is the invading and occupying army in Iraq means that EVERY SINGLE NON-COMBATANT KILLED WAS A MURDER.  END OF DISCUSSION.

    And, since we went into Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban government and get rid of al Qaeda, and those goals were accomplished by July 2002, every single death there of non-combatants is ALSO A MURDER.

    The point of our military is to kill people and break their shit.  When we unleash them on populations who are not our enemy, THEN THE RESULTS ARE THE FAULT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE AMERICAN POLITICIANS.

    And until we stop GLORIFYING the deaths and injuries and actions of our military, this shit will continue.

    The IGTNT series is DEFINITELY A PART OF THE PROBLEM.

    War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women. - Chris Hedges

    by dancewater on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:04:07 PM PDT

  •  I want to know (0+ / 0-)

    whether those two children survived.

    "Rules must be binding. Violations must be punished. Words must mean something." President Obama in Prague on April 5

    by jlynne on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:28:50 PM PDT

    •  yes, they did (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jlynne, truong son traveler

      and here is an updated story on them.

      War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women. - Chris Hedges

      by dancewater on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:52:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dancewater

        I'm so glad they survived!  Whatever may be said about the initial firing on the photographer-mistaken-for-terrorist with RPG, opening fire on that van was inexcusable.  While there is nothing we can do to make the situation right, at the very least, they should get some accountability and financial compensation.  

        P.S.  He got $500 for that bombed out van?  

        "Rules must be binding. Violations must be punished. Words must mean something." President Obama in Prague on April 5

        by jlynne on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 10:39:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Pakistan in Pieces (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DelicateMonster

    what we are doing there is also massively evil, which is why they named the drones "Predator" and "(Grim)Reaper" .....

    A young Peshawar journalist sits beside me, talking in a subdued but angry way, as if someone is listening to us, about the pilotless American aircraft which now slaughter by the score – or the four score – along the Afghanistan border. "I was in Damadola when the drones came. They killed more than 80 teenagers – all students – and, yes they were learning the Koran, and the madrasah, the Islamic school, was run by a Taliban commander. But 80! Many of them came from Bajaur, which would be attacked later. Their parents came afterwards, all their mothers were there, but the bodies were in pieces. There were so many children, some as young as 12. We didn't know how to fit them together."

    Link here.

    War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women. - Chris Hedges

    by dancewater on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 08:47:50 PM PDT

  •  A president can not fulfill his oath of office, (0+ / 0-)

    And turn a blind eye to war crimes.  A war crime is a war crime.  It is not supposed to matter which government commits it.  John McCain was tortured when he was a prisoner of war in Vietnam.  We can debate whether his actions in bombing civilians was a war crime, but we can not debate whether the treatment he received was a crime.  Why does that hypocrisy persist?  We call it terrorism when a bunch of Saudis fly a plane into the World Trade Center, because they are targeting civilians, yet we allow these scumbags to use unarmed Iraqis for an amusing target practice game, and are not calling for the heads of everyone responsible for the act, and its cover-up.  Or are war crimes no longer war crimes when our guy is in charge?

  •  Another Excellent Video Here on Al Jazerra (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    truong son traveler

    Glenn Greewald, Weekly Standard's Bill Roggio and GWU Professor of Media and International Affiars Steven Livingston:

    "I'm looking forward," he told the troops, "to returning to Afghanistan many times in the years to come." Obama March 2010

    by Wamsutta on Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 10:31:30 PM PDT

  •  U.S. CentCom can't find the official copy... (0+ / 0-)

    ...because the official copy is still on loan to Dick Cheney's underground masterbatorium, for further "study."

    You know, for when the Abu Graib videos no longer do the trick for him.

  •  The Full Video? 06:49:06 to 07:20:09 Missing (0+ / 0-)

    30 minutes missing

    Look at the clock in upper left hand corner

    You can see that 30 minutes is cut. At 31:08 of the "full video" it goes from 06:49:06 to 07:20:09.

    I'd still like to see the full unedited video. If you would like to see it too, then ask them for it, again.

    Watch it for yourself.

    Watch it for yourself.

    http://gawker.com/... is one of the places reporting this. I don't like gawker but that does not eliminate the fact that I can see with my own eyes that 30 minutes is missing from the video on this page.

    •  It is possible that 30 minutes have been edited. (0+ / 0-)

      However, it is also possible, if this is so-called "time of day timecode"--i.e. it is recording the local time that the footage was shot--that the camera and recording device were simply turned off for that period.  Hence, each time the camera restarts, there would be a change in the timecode.

      The only way to figure this out would be to examine the original tape and/or digital file.

      Good luck with that.

      The past is never dead. It's not even past. - William Faulkner

      by Jimbo47 on Fri Apr 09, 2010 at 07:00:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hard to believe the tapes missing? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    truong son traveler

    Seriously, how is it hard to believe that Central Command has made an embarrassing, not to mention, incriminating video disappear? I have a son in the Army, and I am an Army brat so I love the US military, but I am not a fool, I know that bad things are done in war. I also know that when you are a General you are as much a politician as you are a warrior. Somewhere in Central Command some general said, "make it go away" and it did.

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